Odegaard Leads Dominant Arsenal Past Napoli

29:12And Mikel, in his post-match, said, we are miles from that level. Because he understood nicking the game where you've been dominated is not a sustainable way to approach football matches. So I'm so glad you brought that up. I think that's really relevant. I think, look. Now, Elliot, if the shoe's on the other foot, wouldn't that be very, very uncomfortable? You know what I mean? I think that's what the expression points out, right? Ah, okay. But I do say we are the ones who knock at this point. Oh, that's a good idea. Am I right? If I didn't title podcast episodes before we record these days, we are the ones who knock would definitely be in the running.

29:52look this game was won because martin odegaard scored but it was also dominated because martin odegaard dominated and he is off to the kind of start to a season that has you thinking what could we have here what could we have what what kind of a season could this be what kind of personal accolades and team accolades could be waiting based on this kind of performance now i think one of the things that i believed about martin odegaard is that he has always been a very good player. The Martin Odegaard of two and three seasons ago, who was a dominant player, three and four seasons ago now or whatever, was dominant not just because of what he can do in the midfield, in central midfield, but because of what he could do in the final third.

30:33And I felt, and have felt for a while, that when Mikel first arrived, our midfielders were, let's say it, below par. But in a world where you have Rice and Zuby and Bruno and Miles and Marino, you don't necessarily need Odegaard to be an all-thirds player, a box-to-box Ramsey-esque player. You need him to really influence the attacking third. In fact, if you remember back in 2021 when Emil Smith-Rowe was taking the number 10 shirt, Mikel Arteta was asked about him, and he had an interesting comment, if you remember it. He said that an incredible season for an Arsenal No. 10 meant, quote, scoring 15 goals and providing 10 assists.

31:20That is a direct quote. Now, not many players do that. But Martin Odegaard, I think he got 15-7 one season. And we know what Mikel thinks that position should do because he told us. So here is what Mikel said last night on whether Odegaard's advanced positions are by instruction. Quote, yes, because he can. We have now a lot of players that can take the ball there and can progress the ball much better than we did in the past. And when that happens, he needs to take different heights and angles and positions in order to disorganize the opponent. And he's done that really well tonight. hey, Lewis, Odegaard is playing at the most elite level possible.

32:09And I think it is the combination of him feeling good physically and emotionally, as Mikel has discussed, but also him taking on board from Mikel that point that, hey, Declan Rice is now standing behind you. These other talented players are all around you. You can go up there and go do your thing, and he's doing his thing, and it's beautiful to watch. He's kind of in the groove, right? and I think when a footballer is like that and you don't see them second-guessing and everybody plays better when they're in that kind of mood. I think Martin Odegaard was really harshly criticised over the last couple of years.

32:45I've said a bunch of times. I think Martin Odegaard was never really fit for the last two years. He got a really bad injury on international duty two seasons ago. He rushed back. When he rushed back, he was there for, I don't know, six weeks and then Bakayi Saka missed three months. The following season, we were playing without Ben White for the entire season, more or less, and stints again. It was last season. Stints again without Bakayi Saka. And Kai Havertz. And Kai Havertz the whole season. I don't think it's at all a coincidence that Ben White, Bakayi Saka, and Kai Havertz are fit. And you see...

33:22So firstly, those players are back. I agree, Elliot, as well, that the players behind him can do a lot of that job. kind of building up from the back. I still think there's a lot of rotation and there are times that he is dropping back and taking the ball from the centre-backs because that's him. That's his personality. I think for a lot of... But the heat maps, Lewis, are like... It's a giant red spot on the NBA. Maybe. Last night was. He's doing it less, but if you look at the game against Chelsea, the game against Coventry, he's still coming back in our side of the halfway line and taking the ball off the centre-backs and starting...

33:56And then what happens is it's Miles Lewis-Skelly wanders further forward or Declan Rice wanders further forward. So I think it's almost like you saw, I think we're all mesmerized by that PSG side the last couple of years in that midfield. There isn't a number, like there is, but there isn't a number 10 and there isn't a number six. No, it's Dambela. There are three. No, but Arsenal, like that PSG midfield, there are three players who occupy three spaces and it doesn't fucking matter who's in which space. And I think Arsenal are leaning more that way at the moment. Yeah, I mean, Odegaard's winding up on the left more too.

34:28Now, I just think there's a lot more relationalism. I don't know football well enough to know if that's what that is. But like, we are... And Mikel said, what's interesting, if you remember, Lewis, he had a comment in preseason where he said, they now understand their instructions and I can trust them to make decisions on the pitch more than I could in the past. And I think you're seeing that in the way that... And Solis is on the right when he provides the assist to Odegaard. And when Havertz isn't there and Saka isn't there and White isn't there, that chips away bit by bit. All of that and that chemistry and that understanding.

34:55And I also just think that Odegaard, last night, it really reminded me of... The thing about him, for all the criticism that there has been, he's never been a player who hides, who doesn't want the ball, who shirks responsibility. I think maybe, if you didn't like him coming back, taking the ball off the centre-backs, you would argue the opposite, that he's taking too much responsibility and not trusting teammates and wanting to influence the game too often. that just lastly that bit last night that the Hincapié miss Odegaard kind of just deciding to make that happen all on its own it really reminded me of the assist for Trossard West Ham at the end of last season he's in that right half space and he looks one way and then the other way and then the other way and then the other way and then he waits and then he checks back and then he plays the pass when the run comes and I just watched that and it was very similar at West Ham for the Trossard goal last season and I just think as a defender how exhausting because he's waiting for the run and he's got that picture in front of him but you have to defend him for that entire five six seconds where he threatens to make 10 different passes you have to defend him assuming he's about to make every single one of those passes along the way and then by the time he's worn you down and he's waited for the run and that pass comes nobody's ready for it and I just think that was like I say it reminded me of that Trossard goal and I thought that was the goal was great but those moments for me are the absolutely fantastic orchestrating moments that Odegaard offers that no one else does.

36:30Yeah one of the most exhausting things for me that can happen in football discourse sometimes is the need to relitigate past views on something and make everything point scoring so if you know Victor Jokras scores three goals against Sunderland instead of analyzing how he did it and why he was good the debate will wind up being well you said he was crap against Napoli and it's like because that's what I saw. Fundamentally, Paul, whatever your diagnosis of Odegaard the last couple of seasons, whether you want to say it's due to injury, I mean, whether you want to say it's due to a tactical evolution, whether you want to say it's due to anything around your analysis of why he performed in the way he did, what we see now is him bringing back into his game elements of end product and directness and decisiveness in the final third that are fundamental to our success.

37:21Someone has to provide that. And he is providing that. And it is what's most important is to understand why it's happening now. Look, ignore Mikel Arteta at your peril. I don't think he wastes a word. I don't think he says anything that he hasn't thought through. And when he says, quote, quote,

37:44he needs to take, I got it, I got it, I got it. He needs to take different heights and angles and positions in order to disorganize the opponent, and he's done that really well. That is as clear a statement of where he wants this player operating and the players operating there, and maybe he's able to operate there because his burst is back, his drive is back, his execution is back, his ball striking, I mean, the technique for the way he strikes that ball is beautiful, brilliant, sensational. but so the focus for me is entirely on what's happening now and what this means for the future so Paul he's he's just playing at a level that makes him one of the best attacking midfielders in world football and that is fundamentally a good thing sure sure but I want to relitigate it because as you said never throw away a word Mikel said what's the bit we're not talking about But we now have the players that allow.

38:42Now, who are those players? Declan Rice standing behind him is a big part of it. That's a change. No. No? Okay, I'm wrong. Wait. Is it Victor Yorchris? Nope. We've had Declan Rice for, what, three and a bit years now? That ain't it. Yeah, but he wasn't on his side. He was standing over on the left. Elliot, Elliot, take a pause. Okay. So we've got, we had Zubimendi and Rice last year. And as Zubimendi tired and maybe fell into a bit of a pattern, Odegaard more and more dipped in to do what he thought wasn't happening on the pitch. Then we discovered Myles Lewis Skelly. Then we bought Bruno Guimaraes.

39:24And now between those players and a refreshed Zubimendi, we've got enough sauce deeper on the pitch that Martin doesn't need to drop in as much. I think people ignore that bit and saw the debate about whether that's a criticism and whether that's in, like, there's a reason you drop into midfield. We saw him do it so effectively for Norway over the summer, dropping into midfield, getting his team forward. I'm sure he would have loved having Bruno Guimaraes, Myles Lewis-Gelly and Declan Rice and a reinvigorated Zubimendi behind him for the Norway team. And he would have stayed up the pitch there too.

40:07So there's no point in standing in the 8-10 spot if nothing's happening, nothing's going on, you have nobody to combine with, and the ball isn't being progressed to you. So we should keep all of Mikel's words. He is now reaching escape velocity. He's at a level, he has a confidence. and you know Lewis talked about Solas popping into midfield there which he does more aggressively than any new player has a right to do who was signed to be a left winger he's straight into the middle over to the right hand side and you know the relationship he's building with Odegaard we've seen from the left wing but like he's maybe one of our most rat-a-tat players kind of Rondo-esque in the middle of the pitch I heard somebody along the way say something like, you know, he gets an assist, but it's really just quite a good pass.

41:04It's well worth an assist. Not only does he show up in the right spot, three touches in the space. He's one of the few players on the same frame speed as Martin Odegaard. The closer those guys get to each other in the center of the pitch, that's why Martin Odegaard set up to look at goal and get that shot off. And they have a beautiful relationship forming at super high speed in terms of that rat-tat-tat. Yeah. Yeah, let me put some numbers around this performance because it deserves it. He created the most chances, six. I mean, he had 1.33 expected assists, 1.48 XG plus XA, completed 91 of 105 passes, had the most touches, 121.

41:50Having the most touches is, you know, it's not a thing that you say is out of the ordinary for Martin Odegaard. but look at where he had him. I mean, it's incredible how advanced he was. He obviously led us in XG buildup by a mile. I mean, he completed the most dribbles in the game three. This was an all around spectacular performance. He had five ball recoveries. He's doing all of it off the ball. His work rate is exceptional. He's running in beyond. He created so many beautiful moments. It was a wonderful game. I do want to ask you, Lewis, you know the extent to which given that we analyzed Mikel's words and parsed them quite closely the extent to which he he is benefiting from a slight shift in Rice's positioning I mean it it is the case that you could say oh he's benefiting from Kai being back but Kai wasn't back in this game it was Yokoress right and like I think I think Rice's positioning is making a bit of a difference there because Rice is a big personality Rice is going to go everywhere where the ball is.

42:52Rice is going to have that gravity to the ball deeper. And I think that just again helps Martin Odegaard not, and by the way, let's not frame this in terms of what he's doing wrong as much as right in the sense that it also means he doesn't have to be as concerned about losing the ball up the pitch because he's got the best ball recovery midfielder in world football behind him, you know, to make sure that we're going to be okay there. So do you think that that slight repositioning of rice's role has had an impact as well yeah i think it has and i think i find it hard to separate how much is rice has been moved and how much is rice has developed i i think declan rice this first few weeks of the season has been playing passes he never would have played before i think he's punching the ball through the lines in a way that uh if he was doing that two years ago he never would have played as the left eight to begin with he would have just been dropped right in that Rodri type position and asked to do that job for Arsenal and the question was never defensively enough the ball and it was never whether or not Declan Rice could carry the ball and it was never whether he could pass the ball but passing the ball is about choosing which pass more than and when to play that pass more than actually having the, they've all got the ability to play these passes the goal, the third goal against Coventry we've recovered the ball and Rice just plays it forward through the lines better and quicker than he ever had done before and I've seen a like I say he wasn't in the same spaces before right like as you say earlier he was more box to box he was he was playing on the left hand side of the pitch I don't know if he would have played those passes before but we didn't see it and since that was it the Atletico away game last season when Mikel moved him to the base of that midfield I think we've seen a bolder more confident Declan Rice a player who's more kind of willing and and perhaps able to yeah take the game and demand that the game goes through him rather than being on the periphery of things and I think it's maybe it's a positioning thing but I think we're on the ball we're seeing a different side to Declan Rice more more of a passing bag than he had before do you think him playing at the base and also maybe a little bit to the right more than we've seen him plays it obviously he's going to be spinning up the right hand side that's almost his preferred club right those angles right the angles you know what i we've seen a couple times it's not come to anything but i'm i'm keeping a really keen eye eye on with at these next few weeks with rice playing that sort of deepest midfield position and not playing on the left the cross from the elbow of the box when he joins that attack when we've got the ball on that right hand side we've seen what Declan Rice can do whipping a ball into a box and then we put him onto the side of the pitch where he was always whipping it towards the goalkeeper now finally when we're in possession and those low blocks we've got a Declan Rice in a position where you set the ball back for him and he can just whip it into the box away coming away from the goalkeeper so he can't come and claim it I think that's something over the course of the the season that we're going to see a lot more of could have had more goals but for the front three, all of whom had various levels of involvement and quality or lack of quality that's worth discussing.

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49:43And by the way, the voting in our app sort of lines up with that. In fact, let me check if that's actually the case, if I got that right. So number one was obviously Odegaard. Number two was Ezra Kansa. However, the number two stock falling was Bakaio Saka, and I gave him stock rising. So what the hell was I thinking? Well, here's what I was thinking. If you told me without watching the game, and you didn't tell me anything about goals, you said, Elliot, here's what I'm going to tell you about a game that just happened. but kaiosaka had the most touches in the opposition box nine took the most shots six ended with 1.09 expected goals created a chance had two big had a big chance had two successful dribbles of two attempted completed 90 of his passes was second in xg buildup was second in attacking output if i told you all of that my dad's about to be on camera here oh okay thanks dad good to see you just recording a podcast no big deal uh if i told you all of that i do love my father though uh if i told you all of that and you didn't know anything about the end product you'd say you'd say yes that's a great sack of game how many goals did he score how many assists did he get but he didn't he missed the chances he shot in the legs too many times he didn't execute at the highest level and so But Paul, I was probably way off base giving him a stock rising.

51:05And some people would say, you got to judge him by his wages. You got to judge him by his star status. And that is fair. If we're going to call Bakayo Saka one of the elite attacking players in world football, then he should be judged at that level. But could you defend me and my ridiculous decision to give him a stock rising? Did I get this totally wrong? Or is there an argument that if Saka keeps having that level of involvement, that the output will follow? How wrong have I gotten this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with all of that. Except I don't like stock rising. I mean, let's go back to the definition of it.

51:37Does it stock rise for you? That would be the only thing I would say. No, I mean, look, this is a big debate with stock rising, right? Which is what it was originally created to be is not who had a good game, who had a bad game. It's whose performance elevated them in your mind versus whose. And so like, depending on how you are. Look, it was a bad pick. It was a bad pick. So Elliot watched last night and he was like, oh, this kid really could turn into something. We could have something. Look, no, Paul, I'm not going to defend the stock rising pick. It's probably really, it's somewhere between wrong and really stupid.

52:06But do you get why my eye went to him? Because he generated so much threat and potentially just the finishing wasn't there. And I'm not particularly worried that Paikai Osaka has just all of a sudden forgotten how to score a goal. He's got two this season already, by the way. I would say some of the concern around Saka that I'm seeing in social circles and on WhatsApps is an anxiety from Arsenal fans who just want to be reassured that the best Saka is still in there. And I would argue this game is more of an indication of that, but many, many people don't see it that way. And that is entirely fair.

52:40So what about you? Yeah, look, I agree with all of that in principle. Not a stock rising, I think, technically. The only thing I'd say about all those numbers where he was the most this, the most that, and most the other, it's kind of the point, right? He was literally the guy we were trying to get going. We were servicing him with Martin Ode. You know, he had waiters all around him. You know, like, what's that thing? Those cheerleading competitions where they have the girls at the top and some fellas spin her around. And like the whole triangle is built for her. she had the most spins and the best dismount.

53:19Well, of course she did. That's why we built the bloody cheerleader pyramid like that. But fundamentally, it doesn't mean he's going to get those shots off. He's going to create those dangerous, or he's going to capitalize to get in the right positions. He just didn't get the cherry on top. So I agree. I don't think there's anything to be pulling your hair out on this. He's been good. It's a very short season so far. He's been good all season, all four games. he was good in this he just had a bit of you know Tim talked about the bubbly pitch it was a hot night it doesn't really matter there are games where you do all the right things and just the last action you only get one or two in a game and we didn't pull it off and Hincapier didn't well okay it's his first start and you know Marino like I don't know that it's nine times out of ten he gets his head down and buries that one like it was just sometimes it's a bit one of those nights and more I step back and think, a bit like I think Lewis was intimating, as 70 minutes came by and 74 minutes came by, I'm like, this isn't like before.

54:29I'm almost 100 % confident the goal is coming. It doesn't just feel like it's coming. And Sanka's part of that battering too. It doesn't have to be him who puts the ball in the back of the net. It's like body shots. We're peppering them. They're tiring, they're fatiguing even faster than we are. And the moment comes, a little bit of a gap, and Martin Odegaard leathers it. And that's, I don't care which one of you guys scores, sort it out between yourself, Bakaio and Martin. Just one of you put it in the back of the net, and that's totally perfectly fine. For you Cancun spring breakers out there, those aren't the kind of body shots he was talking about, by the way.

55:09Lewis, your thoughts on that? not the body shots the the second oh sorry um well and i'm gonna have to change tact uh yeah bad miss good player i'd be more worried if he if he hadn't scored a couple of goals already this season and he was sort of yeah you know when you get a few games into the season and you're attacking players are still that it starts to become five or six games they've not scored and you know they're probably starting to get nervous in front of it's in their head yeah he's he's got a couple of goals already and yeah bad miss can i say actually because this is one thing i guess i i am not concerned about but i feel like bakaya saka is looking for his own shot more than he used to and there's a positive in there but there are times when he's hitting it in the legs or the shot's not on he's taking it like do you see a bakaya saka that's maybe more shot taker than shot maker these days in terms of what he's what his intentionality is we're still not talking cancun right no still not talking cancun purely football i'll tell you when we switch and for those of you in europe okay maybe maybe ibiza would that would that be more Cancun's more of an American.

56:11We've heard of Cancun, for God's sakes. Paul, you live in Chicago. I've been to Europe. Go ahead, Lewis. Yeah, I think a couple of years ago, and we've not seen it as much because of the injuries, I think we started to see Bakayi Saka, who still created plenty of chances, but was a little bit quicker to pull the trigger over the past few years. And I hope we see that Bakayi Saka. if Arsenal take more shots Arsenal will score more goals and we're not heavy on players who take four or five shots a game if Bakayi Saka can regularly get six shots a game then he will have his best goal scoring season that he's had in the next shot and he's talked about having targets right I guess they all do Havertz said the same unfortunately you can't hit them yeah well there is that well done touche can I say something too pretty much across the board there are a lot of stats in football and some mean more than others.

57:08But I will tell you this. Shots pretty consistently aligns with good players. If you are one of the top shot-getting players in all of Europe, you are probably one of the best players in Europe. Now, obviously, league strength notwithstanding. And if you are over one expected goal per 90, you're Erling Haaland. You know what I mean? So, like, I would say that, look, I don't want to be tone-deaf here. I don't want to miss the fact that Bakaio Saka had a frustrating game in some ways. He took some shots that weren't on. He missed a big chance. You know, if I'm going to sit here and say, Nani drives me crazy because he missed a 1v1, I can't turn around and praise Saka for getting chances.

57:48You have to be internally consistent, and I get that. But I just find that what I connected to watching this is, wow, Bakaio's really at the heart of what we're doing. And I get Paul's point. That's how we're built. So that's what it should be. But maybe it's because we just didn't see enough of him last season. I forgot what it feels like to have the security blanket of Bakayo Saka on the ball on the right trying things. And yeah, that's really it. What you said there earlier, just quickly too, I guess. If you go through, when you say about shots being indicative of the top players, if you go every Premier League season, you go through the big chances missed and the tally of who had the most big chances missed.

58:26And it's Erling Haaland at the top every year. and it was Mohamed Salah at the top every year. If Bakayosaka, getting on the end of those things, timing the run right, getting free of the defender, is the kind of harder, less repeatable, or the more repeatable skill if you can do it. The players, good players who find themselves in those areas, you'll score enough if you're not getting in the areas. And there's been times that we've had that with Bakayosaka when he's not getting on the end of things. And that's when I start to worry that a player's not going to score any goals. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

59:03So let's move to other sort of complicated individual performance questions. And we can get to the subs too because I think there's some of that and then a quick Sunderland preview. Ebercha Eze and Victor Yolkras, you know, look, when you're in a very, very deep squad that's very talented and competing to win everything, every time the manager gives you a chance and starts you, That's your moment to make the case. To say to the manager, pick me. I'm your guy. I deserve it. I really believe one of the most interesting things that happened last season is because of Odegaard's injury, Eze had to play in midfield early on.

59:40And Leo Trossard got a lot of starts early on, and he played out of his mind great to start last season. And he proved to the manager it should be his shirt. So I do think these performances matter because they are your chance to raise your hand and say, pick me. Let's start with Ebrecha Eza, Paul. Yeah. I just cannot emphasize this enough. I don't know that there's a more talented player from a technical standpoint at Arsenal today than Ebrecha Eza. There was a video going around recently of a finishing contest between Eza and Saka in training. And Eza just leathered everything, whether it was volleyed or off the ground, into the corner, scored every single one, beat Saka in the finishing contest.

1:00:17It's like, no big deal. He is a moments player. And when he gets the moments, he can have a hat trick against Spurs. And when he doesn't get the moments, he can look a little bit anonymous. I think given the fact that Mikel Arteta went back to Solis right away for the Chelsea game, and given the fact that Solis came on and looked good in this game and was involved in the goal that we wound up scoring, I would say that as it probably didn't pick me enough with this performance is the way I'm thinking about this. This wasn't the performance to close the gap to Solis in terms of who Mikel's thinking about starting against Sunderland.

1:00:57Yeah, I think that's right. I think he got slightly more into the game as it went along, but that wasn't a huge difference, even if I'm right. And conversely, the Villa game, I think, is really interesting for both players, Solis and Eze. you know Eze got a kind of rave reviews off the Villa performance and he certainly had the big moment that cracked it open but then he went a bit Eze when like if I'm Arteta I was probably not a hundred percent super excited about his intensity off the ball or a couple of loose giveaways or moments like nothing disastrous but it was if I'm the manager I'm thinking yeah okay that's that's really why i don't start you in really tough games all the time and to your point right these are the games that eza and jacoresh get a chance to say to underline their their claim for starts and what did solis do the moment he came into this team started like a man on fire and he's been absolutely fantastic for every minute apart from the Villa game and even that one I think like he didn't have a good game but I think it might have been a misread as to him not being good or it not being the great game state like Villa really good mid-block you remember we all remember the very funny videos of Unai Emery jumping around the arms jumping from side to side he's training a mid-block probably knowing him he didn't have a lot of time with his team but the one thing you can be guaranteed he did for a week there was train a mid block he had maddie cash he had uh john mcginn on that side on soleus's side and they did a bit of a job on blocking him and his move is to take some into traffic in a mid block and there's not much upside in going into traffic in a mid block those moves work in the final third when you're attacking a deep block they don't work with a mid block so i don't think it meant anything apart from that's probably not a great game state and situation mid-game for him to spend a lot of time on he needs to work on and he needs some combinations and we need some patterns to help him out there i don't think it meant anything more than that um but eza for me has yet to your point is a moments player so he might just get moments until he can find a way to bring more physicality, more intensity, the ability to participate in the press aggressively.

1:03:36All of that is stuff Solis does from day one, right? Like, he brings all that physicality, intensity, work rate, situational awareness, and ability to participate deeply in the block. and you always feel his presence. Whereas Eze is this ephemeral, ethereal moments player who really shines against Tottenham Hotspur when they're terrible, and then he dominates a game. But you're only going to get that twice a year. Well, the problem is when he does something good, it's so good. Yeah. Gosh. Wow. He's great. I love him. The Thierry Henry style goal he scored right on the pivot and the ball. I mean, who else can do that?

1:04:19And actually, the funny thing is, Lewis, to the point of moments player, like he has a beautiful decision to cushion a header back to Marino that Marino should probably score and he has that last shot wide of the post and I know he knows he can do better there he wants to find that corner and if he finds that corner there and Marino heads a goal and you're saying he wasn't very involved but look what he did a goal and an assist and I realize people are screaming but he didn't do either of those things Elliot but like like that's what I mean by moments he he has the ability to execute like when Solis doesn't score right when he decides he's going to cut it on his right.

1:04:52I thought he'd take it on his left, but he cuts it on his right, and it's a little too close to the keeper, and Kai scores from an offside position. Ezzet scores there. Like, honestly, Ezzet just passes that into the far post effortlessly. Now, that's not me saying Ezzet's better than Solis or this. I'm just saying there are moments where I think he can execute, but the amount of involvement is less than you'd expect. And, you know, it's easy to forget in all the time we spend talking about Jokras, Ezzet was our most expensively acquired player last summer. Ezzet was a star of the Premier League who won the FA Cup almost by himself for Crystal Palace.

1:05:25He's a guy very much in the heart of his prime. He's an England international. He's a big player and a big personality in our dressing room. And like fundamentally, Lewis, I'm sure Ebrecha Eza believes he's better than Christos Solis and belongs in the team and wants to be in the team somehow. So he's got a hell of a battle on his hands here. Yeah, Paul used the word intensity. And I think that's the real big thing here. I think Ebrecha Eza is a more naturally gifted footballer than Christos Zollis but I think there's an intensity to everything that Zollis does I don't think it's just defensive, I think it's when he's on the ball as well or when we're on the ball to kind of get involved to drift across the pitch Paul mentioned earlier that kind of quick passing with Odegaard in the build up to the goal, quick touch touch bang, he does everything at that intensity, Eze sometimes does and then sometimes doesn't and he's, you know, he kind of you picture Eza, socks down, shoulders loose, kind of just having a good time playing football.

1:06:25Can I give you an analogy and ask you? Because it's another player that I think Mikel struggled with because he expected a lot of him and ultimately didn't get it. A different layer. I mean, Eza's a better player in the end, but Emil Smith-Rowe. He can do things at times where he scores a goal or pulls out a finish or a ball where you're like, do that all the time, you know, where he's just so good. But the intensity off the ball, the intensity and focus to really influence a game all the time. Now with Emil Smith-Rowe, I think there were some physical concerns. He couldn't stay healthy. Did he take care of his body?

1:06:54There were other things, but he is. Emil Smith-Rowe is a bit of a fantasy player with a lot of talent, and Eza is a bit of a fantasy player with a lot of talent, you know? Yeah, I think Eza too, by the way. I think last season, I don't think he was great last season for the most part. I think he'll be better when Arsenal are better, and Arsenal look better right now. obviously wasn't fantastic last night but I think as a moments player you never want him to be the guy that has to make the rest of the team play well like you want that to be Odegaard or Bruno Gimaraes or Lewis Skelly those guys I keep thinking back to it constantly Sam Lee wrote a piece the Man City correspondent wrote a piece for the Athletic a few years ago and he was talking about Erling Haaland and Pep Guardiola was talking about Erling Haaland and Kevin De Bruyne and he said oh they don't make us play well they just win us the game they we need the other guys to make us play well that's a great point we dominate because the other guys are good and the other guys make choices that help us dominate the match you know your Rodri Bernardo Silva those are the players he was talking about but we need these guys on the pitch as well because then they'll win us the game like they'll have that one if we're talking about moments players and I think like a turkey at city right now yeah and I think Eze last year was in a situation where he is more of that moments player, but we didn't give him the platform to deliver those moments because we didn't have a Rodri and a Bernardo Silva on the pitch.

1:08:22And if we're playing like we have so far this season, if we can keep playing like this, I think we'll see a lot more from him out on that left-hand side when Odegaard's feeling it, when Havertz is playing, like you said, Saka, the rest of the midfield basically now, even go all the way back to sort of Calafuri. Those guys will make Arsenal play well and dominate and be in control of games. And then somebody will need to pop up. And that Odegaard finish last night is probably something you'd expect more from Eze popping up on the edge of the box and firing that in. And I think it's all of the other play, if that could come more from the other players this season than it did last season, then Eze will pop up with his moments.

1:09:03Last night, obviously, wasn't one of them. I don't think we have to have anxiety about this because I think having a player like Ezza in your squad is an unbelievable luxury. The issue is, does Ezza see it that way? You know, does Ezza want to be someone fighting to find a place in the team? I mean, that's his job. That's the ball. Yeah, well, by the way, that's true at every club. I mean, you can be an amazing player, but if you can't deliver consistently, someone's going to come take your shirt. And that's what we want. And we have to stop having anxiety about that. For too long when Arsenal were, I would say, mediocre, we had the obvious starters and everybody else was nowhere near them.

1:09:38That's not who we are anymore. You know, you don't think Bruno Guimaraes is coming from Miles Lewis Skelly's shirt or Zubamendi's shirt? He is, you know, and I mean, Ezri Contza isn't going to take Saliba's shirt, but you can bet he's going to say, I demand time, look at how I'm playing. I mean, this is what you want in a team. And Solis and Eze going for that position, Odegaard upping his game to keep Marino out of, well, Marino played, but you know, out of his position or to keep as an out. It's only good for us. We have to not have anxiety about it. Paul, I'm going to ask you about Victor Yorchrist and then I'm going to unplug my microphone for the sake of comments and mentions because it has become the case.

1:10:15I mean, this is the problem. You get to a point with a player where it's like you have camps and it's pretty hard to cross the divide. And I'm at the point where I just don't think his level is quite that high. Like, let's set aside, he helped us win the title last year and we thank him for that. Like, that's done. That's there. He will always have it. He'll always have that medal. He'll always be part of the heroic Arsenal team that ended the drought and won us the title. Okay? Caveat in place. Again, set aside. For now, looking forward, I'm disappointed. And I will say, I thought he finished last season strong.

1:10:48I thought he started last season okay, had a good run, Burnley injury, disrupted him, came back, didn't look good, really good against Athleti, and finished the season strong. This, for me, was a game that he didn't look great. So he had a good first 10 minutes. I should point that out. He had a really nice one-two with Ezza at the top of the box. He had the Travella pass to Saka, where Saka pulled out that insane overhead kick. There was some nice stuff there. He finished the game from there with seven touches. He finished the game with no shots. Nine total touches, no shots. And like, I think where I struggle is, what is the game state?

1:11:22What is the scenario? What is the USP? Is it, he runs in behind. I don't see him win races that much. Well, he's a goal getter. That's why he's a nine. Well, for whatever reason, through him or through us, we don't create shots for him. It's another no-shot game. You know, and from a technical standpoint, whatever you think of his technical level, if you have nine touches in a game, you're only going to influence it so much. Now, maybe you could say his running, his occupying, his physicality is why we had space on the edge of the box, why center backs weren't in certain areas. I mean, at some point it feels like you're squinting to see it.

1:11:53I don't want to dismiss any player that's part of this Arsenal squad because we're going to need them all. I just don't think the level that he's playing at right now is particularly high and I you know again if the point of playing in a game like this is to say to the manager pick me against Sunderland don't pick Kai Havertz pick me I scored a hat trick against Napoli or I created a bunch of big chances or I had seven shots inside the box here's a reason pick me this wasn't a pick me performance is the best way I could describe it you know yeah we needed him last year he was vital we i don't don't want to say it as dismissive as it'll come out but we didn't have anybody else and he did all right and he put himself about and all that stuff and he got a reasonable number of goals in the end and like but that was last year now things can change but right now we have options and it's hard to think of a game state that i would prefer anybody other than kai havertz if If Kai can stay fit for the whole season, and we're just talking about some rotation and some whatever, that might be his gig for this year.

1:13:04We've also got Mikel Marino. That's very similar to Kai in many ways. So it doesn't give you different looks. And like the 70 minutes, you're not going to play Kai Havertz, even if he's fit all season. You're not going to play him 96 minutes every game. and Jokeres has to learn to carve out his role within the team and they all say they want to come to the top teams and compete. So welcome to a top team, welcome to competition. The downside of competition is the other guy might be really good and off the charts and suit the way we play. And when you look at what Havertz does that's so effective at the moment, he drifts over to the right-hand side where Saka and Odegaard and White are and they rat-a-tat-tat and they move around and they do what Solis did for the goal.

1:13:53He stepped in the middle, three quick rat-a-tat passes to open up Odegaard. That's not something Jokeres is ever going to do. And so that deep block we face, fortunately we only face it about 80 % of all games, but that game state we spend most of our games either working towards or in is not one that suits Victor. It just kind of doesn't, and it's not his strength. And then you get into debating what game say, what setups and what opponents, how many opponents are we going to be hit on the counter for most of the game? And is Victor really better than Kai Havertz if you're playing them on the counter?

1:14:38So it may just be that you need options and he needs to work his ass off and be hyper-positive and bring a higher level. I've seen better Victor Jokeres and I've seen worse Victor Jokeres and he needs to be ready and have his head right. And when you get his chances, take them because he is a goal scorer. He does score goals. He can get into the box. When he gets into the box, he needs to get into the right spot and get on the end of things. And he'll be a different look for opponents. But if he were at another club, would I be looking at him enviously saying, I wish he was at my Premier League team instead of theirs?

1:15:22No, I probably, I'm not going to waste too much energy thinking that's the guy I want. Kai Havertz has always been my guy. Always, always, always. He's fantastic. And if he's fit in firing, Mikel Marino does a very good stand-in version of him. That's kind of where I'm going to go. I like Victor Yacoresh more than some who don't. And like, I'm open to him bringing his best stuff. But, you know, he's probably in a slight funk this season so far, and he's got to settle to the task and bring his A game. Not to mention when you've been a 60 goal a season scorer and regard yourself as one of the best strikers in the world, like you don't want to be marginalized.

1:16:05And if he feels like he's being marginalized, like I could understand if he's having a little bit of a sulk. I don't know if that's the case, by the way. One thing that I would point out too is like, you know, this is the challenge when your backup player or alternate player, I think, doesn't play in the same way as your first choice player too, is that it requires everybody to sort of reconfigure and rethink about, you know, how to best incorporate that player. And that can be hard from game to game stylistically. um so so yeah i mean mick elmarino the irony of course also is he's not exactly like super impressive when he starts in midfield it's the mixed performances like sometimes i think some of the best mick elmarino performances for us have come at center forward and he can do some of the things kai does there so that makes it even a little bit more complicated i don't know lewis how did you see this i i i want to add one one comment that i think is important there are people on social for example and i know some of you listening don't do the social media thing so you don't get exposed to this, who critique Victor Yokores in a way that isn't critique, it's abuse.

1:17:11And it's not right. First of all, it's hyperbole. It goes beyond what is real and relevant. And I think what happens when you read that is you get angry and then you get defensive. And it can be hard sometimes when someone is having, I think, intelligent and thoughtful critique of a player, not to just lump them in with the people who are saying the abusive, nasty stuff. So I think that does what we would call poisoning the well. It poisons the well of the debate because suddenly you analogize the critique with the abuse. And I get that. But I think, Lewis, we can thoughtfully critique the performance without having to go into hyperbole and abuse, you know, obviously.

1:17:49Again, I'm going to have to scratch everything I had written down. All right, bring the ad hominem. What do you got? I think Victor Jokeres was okay I personally I really like strikers who get really involved in the game and drop into midfield and drift into the channels and link play and join up and I think this was kind of a typical enough performance from him like you know on the pitch for 70 minutes nearly five passes completed I find that difficult and I think when you're when that's what you're offering the rest of the team then you have to get on the end of things and threaten to score and he didn't get a shot last night I think when you have a striker who's finishing is kind of their everything then they have to get shots away and he doesn't get enough shots away to justify the the lack of other things in his game that like say Kai Havertz brings and yeah I find that I find that difficult and I think the conversation about like kind of changing the way we play and there was some of this last season as well like oh we need to change for him we need to change for him oh we'd have scored more goals if we changed for him yeah well we won the league and the three years before we competed for the league and reached the champions league semi-final and arsenal don't need to change so that somebody scores more goals arsenal need to play well so that arsenal score goals and arsenal play well and arsenal shouldn't rip up what works for arsenal to make somebody else fit in better.

1:19:23If Victor Jokeres can fit in and have an impact and score goals for Arsenal, great, then he should play. And if he can't fit in, I don't think the thing that's been going really well for us for the last five years or so should kind of be, you know, you can make tweaks and adapt and iterate over time, but I don't think we should be ripping up how we attack so that it suits one of our players better if it suits other players less well. I think if you have Erling Haaland, who scores 40 goals in the Premier League for you, then maybe you change things about how you attack. Actually, Erling Haaland, the greatest goal scorer the Premier League's ever seen, arrived at Manchester City, and Pep Guardiola told him, yeah, you're going to have to get a bit better outside the box, though.

1:20:09You're going to have to come and join in a little bit more. You're going to have to hold the ball up a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, the goals are great, but I want all those things too. and that's where I sort of stand on it is I would accommodate a player who doesn't fit into this Arsenal team if they're offering loads of something we don't have I would not be going all out changing things that I like about Arsenal so that somebody else can have a bit of a better time with us yeah I mean I Lewis we're gonna need everybody in this squad he was important to us last season And odds are he will be important to us again this season.

1:20:49I think we probably would all maybe have enjoyed like a Julian Alvarez coming in, you know, or whatever it is. And maybe giving us a slightly different level in that group. But you just got to keep an open mind on this. Like stylistically, he's going to be tough for some people. Some people like him more than others. It has become a very polarized discussion and it has become a little bit difficult to have that discussion without people decamping to their sort of polls of what they think about it. So we'll just keep an open mind. But like I said, I think the biggest thing is for the manager, when he picks these players, it's their chance to make the case.

1:21:31And you can decide if you think these players made the case. So I don't think we need to go deep on the Solis thing. He had a great substitute performance in my mind. He was involved in the goal. We've already kind of covered that. Bruno looked great. I love the tempo he plays at. I still think Bruno is an underrated signing that's going to have an impact in how we attack and how we look breaking down low blocks. In particular, by the way, you saw how much he wanted to get the ball in a hurtful place. I just love the urgency with which he'd whip it out to Bacayo. You know, Nani came on. He'd whip it out to Bacayo.

1:22:01All right. Yeah, all right. Could have phrased that differently. Nani came on. I was letting it go, Elliot, and he went back to it. and Kai plays Nani and he's 1v1. I think he should round the keeper to his right, but he wants it on his left and then doesn't hit it with enough conviction. But if I'm going to praise Pakaio for getting into goal scoring spots, I can't get too hard on Nani. The thing about Nani is Nani's one of those guys that the game always seems to come to him, whether you want it to come to him or not. So he's a magnet for the ball doing stuff. It just doesn't always work out.

1:22:30But yeah, one of the fun things, by the way, at the end of the game, if you didn't see it, go check out the video. The Arsenal fans who are being held behind at the stadium screaming out to Miles Lewis-Skelly, give us a song, give us a song. And he started a song of, we know what we are, Champions of England, we know what we are. That was a really good moment. It's one from one in the Champions League. No goals conceded in the Champions League. I think if you remember, we conceded, what, one goal in the league phase last season or something like that? One goal, no goals in the league phase? Something incredible.

1:22:56We conceded to, was it two goals? Kyrat. That was it. Yeah, I mean, granted, a heavily rotated team. But so the defensive record stays in place. And now we look ahead to Sunderland. Sunderland away was a heartbreaking game last season. They got that late goal. We were denied a late goal that I thought we could get. The nice thing, I think if you're going to go to Sunderland away, I don't love that we're under the lights. That's hard, but I like that it's not in the wintertime. It will be a balmy day there. Mild weather. Shouldn't be that cold, windy, miserable experience. But this is the thing.

1:23:34like Paul this is the thing in the Premier League it's those games after Champions League ties and especially Champions League away that tend to take a toll we did rotate a bit but maybe not as much we might have liked Declan Rice had to finish the game at right back played 90 again was asked about it full-time he said I played over 60 games a season when I was at West Ham I can do it here but you know he's also coming off a World Cup where he was struggling um you know not struggling with his performances but with his fitness so I I do think that this is one to watch not because I think Sunderland are brilliant, but because that's a tough place to go under the lights and it's following the Champions League, and that is traditionally where the big clubs struggle.

1:24:09So I assume we go back to what's become the quote-unquote first choice. Do you agree, and do you have the same concern about a post-Champions League game, or is it too early in the season to have that concern? Yeah, I think we, so I read somebody making the comment that Napoli are actually reasonable prep for Sunderland, at least in terms of shape and how they play and the game stay. Like, I think there's probably some truth in that, but it could also be a bit of a shock to the system because they're just better and more dangerous. So hopefully the team didn't read that. But, like, just in terms of how we set up and how we go about it, you know, if you go back to your DA team, we made five changes in this game.

1:24:55I assume we pretty much flipped back apart from anybody. You know, Ben White was walking a bit gingerly at the end of the game. Observation by somebody. I hope, you know, my big concern on this game in terms of rotations, the one player I talked to you about when we last talked about it was, you know, Ben White. If there's a way, we don't really have a rotation option, but we did. We could have done the Martin Zubimendi at right back, but it would have taken away that whole Ben White thing down the right. But I just don't like seeing Ben White three days in a row when he's still bedding in his fitness, and you don't know what you don't know, so don't test it out.

1:25:40There's a big difference between getting three days and five days to recover when you're in that where he's at. We're just waiting for Timber to get back and yada, yada, yada. So that was my big concern and would be my big concern for Sunderland. Everywhere else, I think we pretty much go with our starting 11 and there's not huge choices to be made apart from, are we getting close to when Bruno Guimaraes starts? We've got to be getting pretty close. Is that fair on whoever's place he takes? one assumes Martin or sorry Maslow-Askele is the one at risk there he's done nothing to deserve losing the place is Bruno completely 100 % fit and ready to start yet those are probably the two positions I have some question on Sunderland will be a tough game but Napoli is at least on paper played a lineup and a formation that's analogous to what we made.

1:26:46And then it was with the floodlights, you know, as will Sunderland, as I understand it. So it may have some echoes of the game. Yep, Lewis. Yeah, Bruno, I guess, I think he'll play as many minutes as he can play, I guess. Do you think Timber will? No, he wasn't even on the bench last night, right? Apparently they warmed him up and warmed him down a lot after the game, gave him a full training, he's been in training he travelled with the squad which means at least they thought about it so he's got to be close I don't think he'll be thrown in we need to keep him safe for the Ipswich game in the League Cup in midweek exactly yeah Bruno, I'm sure also the Sunderland fans will be delighted to welcome him back to the North East they'll probably like him now I think we went they're at the worst possible time you could go there last season like they they just enjoyed this really good start to the season especially at home they were kind of riding that wave and i think when a promoted side or a side that come into the league with with not so many expectations at the start of the season when they get off to a good start you don't want to be going there like october november time when they're all feeling really good about the season you feel like everything's possible that you know towards the end of the season they did lose a few games at home and right now I just kind of trust Arsenal to to dominate games and create enough chances I think we went there last year with Marino up front because Havertz was obviously out and then we'd lost lost Jokras to injury as well the Burnley so we go in there in a lot better shape than we went there last season and overall I think just everything right now I'm I'm enjoying Arsenal.

1:28:34I'm enjoying watching Arsenal. I wasn't worried when Chelsea scored on Sunday. I wasn't worried about the goal coming last night. And I'm going to Sunderland not worried either and just looking forward to watching Arsenal play again because I'm really enjoying it at the moment. Yeah, Sunderland started their season with a loss to Ipswich, which didn't see that coming. But since then, they've righted the ship a little bit. And, you know, honestly I think they're a good team. They drew away at Brentford in a game where they outplayed them and they won at home to Fulham in a game where they were slightly better.

1:29:08Fulham, I think, have lost all three in the league this season. But they're good. They're a good team. You look at the lineup and you're like, yeah, that's a pretty good team across the board. I think of them as what the Premier League has become in a way, in that they're really solid. They just have really solid, high quality players across the board there's no way i look and i say that's really weak i mean i think obviously at center back they have dan ballard who he scored the goal against us i believe is right and um yeah and and really good they missed him when he was out injured last season badly they still have shaka um i think brian brabby's a very good player enzal of fee kind of playing behind him sadiki and shaka in midfield like it's it's a good competent team and this is the kind of quality that you just didn't see at a team like Sunderland 15, 20 years ago.

1:30:03You know, they just didn't have this caliber. Now they are a team that can hurt you and they can even bring players off the bench. You know, Isidore, I think, came off the bench to score the winner for them over Fulham, for example. So I expect that Mikel will go quote unquote full strength, which I believe will include Califiori coming back in. I agree with a lot of people that Declan Rice probably needs a rest at some point. I presume that will happen against Ipswich. Like, he's got the League Cup in midweek. Nobody cares what happens in that. We did see last night, he is our backup right back right now.

1:30:34Scary thought. Yeah, scary hours there. I mean, maybe, look, if it were a weaker league game, maybe you'd say Bruno could come in for Rice or Zubamendi could. I don't think you could do that away to Sunderland. So I don't think that'll be the case. I think it'll be Saka Kai and Solis. I think it'll be Rice, I think Miles and Odegaard until Bruno's really, really up to speed. And I think it'll be Ben White again. We flog him until he breaks. Ben White, Konza, Gabby, Cal Fury, and Kepa. So did I sneak that in or did people catch it? So we'll just see. But to your point, Lewis, I enjoy what - That's the problem with the podcast, Elliot.

1:31:13You've got no immediate audience feedback. No, I don't know if it got laughs. I don't know if it landed. You know, we're an hour and 27 minutes in. I need to know if people are paying attention. But look, I think we win. We'll see if we can get a Friday Night Clive tomorrow. We'll have an instant reaction on Saturday. We can go right or wrong from last season, as we have already done with the Villa game. So, you know, another one that we can write. And look, it is an interesting time right now because we're just in a very good moment. And I think I just trust this team. To your point, Lewis, I trust this team.

1:31:46By the way, just in terms of looking around the league, Liverpool host Fulham should be a comfortable win. Chelsea host Hull. I realize Hull are unbeaten, but I would think for Chelsea that's a comfortable win. City have the Manchester derby away. That's the big game of the weekend, and that's going to be really interesting to see what that's like. So let's lay down a marker on Saturday and over to City and United to entertain us with some hilarity on Sunday, hopefully, and some potential schadenfreude. I think we can leave it there. This was a really fun pod. I really enjoyed it. we definitely miss Clive and can't wait for him to get back but he deserves that holiday with his lovely wife who Paul rates very highly Paul thank you very much champions50 is a code if you want to get over on Patreon we'd love to have you there but again wherever you are the fact that you're here part of this stunning sensational amazing we love it we appreciate you Louis thanks this was great hope to have you on again soon okay everybody we will leave it there hope you enjoyed every last second of this and if there were any seconds of it you didn't enjoy send your messages to Paul As always, we love you, and we will talk to you after Arsenal 10, Sunday on the Hill.

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