Saliba Signs and Arsenal Face Another Big Test At Newcastle

31:46Like, where did he knock it over the top from perfectly? From deep picking it up off the centre-backs, right?

31:52Elliot:Yeah. Yeah, Clive? I'll just say, it's been in my mind a little while, because if you even look at one of the highlights of last night, ball goes into Max Dalman, clip round the corner first time. Yeah. Right in behind. remember califiori's clip into yorkeres in behind against leads you see what's happening here we're pulling people's in and we're clipping it over right so this is the late run yeah not the first run it's not the first run it's to pull people in why are we playing double pivot to pull people onto us to clip and then fast support it right so i'm still learning how we're playing this is why i'm not overly obsessed and fixated but there are things developing as the sample size is growing you know and and this is what's happening with football at the moment but i do think it'd be interesting obviously sunday is on all our minds it'd be interesting to see what we do but i think we've learned a few things in the last week or so so what game are we going to play and for me what's really important where are we going to play i think that's really key where are we going to play are we going to try to control but we must score that first goal i know i'm i know i'm jumping point to Newcastle, but I think it's really important that there is a synergy between the three games, Newcastle, Port Vale, and City.

33:06Elliot:And I think we must bring our learnings into the Newcastle game. Well, and the irony is, Leo scores the goal, the second goal in this game, in exactly the way that I'm sure Mikel envisioned him scoring against City when he picked him. Except City sank all the way back into their own box, and there was no room for him to run into. And I'm sure he had no expectation of that happening, and certainly the early goal did that but like i'm sure when when leo scored that goal mikhail's going great now you do it this is what i thought you were going to do against city um so okay well the thing with as a i'll just say this finally is it is very clear to me i think from mikhail's comments about him and the way he's used him that the player has to learn us and the manager has to learn him and there is some of that going on that the role is evolving uh mikhail was asked if he's one of our most versatile attackers.

33:56And he said, quote, yes. And at the end, what we want to do with him is get him in positions, in spaces that he can create his magic moments and the difference in the team. Some of that will be from wide areas. Some of that will be from the right or left in relation to the opposition. So Paul, that says to me that Mikel doesn't have a stick on role for Eze, but an idea of where he can influence games and that we're going to have to put him in those positions and he's going to have to find the way to to connect with his teammates and they're gonna have to find the way to connect with him because i think michael sees him the way we all do right that magician the guy who can make the magic moment happen but he's got to figure out where to be to do that and the players around him have to figure out where he's going to be to do that you know yeah i think that's right we've seen him in three positions now left wing left eight right eight um and uh i have no doubts that he's going to be fine he's he's a super intelligent heads-up player who who will make and find connections it's more the collective it's not so much him finding the rest of the team it's it's everybody can uh understanding like fair play to martinelli making that run but martinelli has been making those runs all along other players need to like he was pre-built for that moment against man city with ese they both were but other players now need to know that once ese's on the ball he's got his heads up he's looking for the clever thing you do like an emboimo um he's always going to be looking for the clever ball when we counter-attack we need a different mindset that every time we counter-attack and as a gets the ball it's on guys it's not going to be one one of those that kind of filters out because of the bad ball or because you know oh these are so no every time you get the ball and you're counter-attacking with ese a goal is on if you make the right run if you make this clever run he'll give you the ball so like that's where i think the learning is it's the rest of the team responding to him um clive no i i pull off at half i was nodding in agreement

36:07Elliot:just to layer on top of that on the goal we play the ball inside but martinelli doesn't stand still he runs he follows his pass and him following that pass made as a defender who was shielding him jump out to martinelli it's gonna be a one-two and as a slips him behind they go different directions bang side foot in the corner i think the point i was going to make just on top paul is when you play to him, don't stand still and watch him do 15 step overs and so he has to pop it back. Move! Move off the board so he has multiple options. Multiple options. I think we do this a lot with Saka as well.

36:47Elliot:We give it to him and we stand there. What if we're going to stand there? He might as well sit next to me on the seat. You see what I mean? You might as well. Let's move. Let's make sure we can create running options and passing options for them. I think it's very important because as soon as they have that, I think they become better players. so yeah just a quick one look the thing as a needs to learn is the off the ball stuff the intensity i'm not sure he did anything wrong in this game or any of the games he's played for us but like it's a it's almost a communication thing he needs to bring that intensity discipline part of it that makes the manager feel having as a on the pitch is not a step down when we when we're without the ball that he's he's always on it he's always clued in that he's you know you think he's trying that Paul do you think he's trying I think he's trying hard at that yeah yeah what do you see what do you see oh for sure I mean what do you need to coach Eze on not too much in terms of how he plays the game right it's it'll all all be about trying to replicate what does Odegaard give you the best Odegaard gives you an incredible creative force and incredible pressing and discipline without the ball a leader of the so like if you're competing to some degree to be the creative force on the pitch at times with Odegaard you need to be able to compete with the two things he does with and without the ball so yeah I would imagine subtly that is the the the framework they've got for Eze to make him absolutely bulletproof as an Arsenal starter no doubts no concerns is that without the ball he can match what Odegaard a version of what Odegaard does on the pitch without the ball then Elliot will get you he'll get his dream there won't he Paul the dream he's been talking about for a year yeah two tens uh let's let's talk Ethan for a minute Clive um this is a chance to watch Ethan play in midfield uh granted not against the most elite opposition, but we haven't seen tons of that.

38:57It's clearly a position that Mikkel sees as his future position, and he's learning it. I thought this was a really good performance in that position, and I think you can see, Arsene, whether you want to say, can I just, let me step back for one second, because I think there are going to be some people will hear the earlier part of this podcast and say, okay, so we're just going to write off our problems as not trying hard against Port Vale. There is clearly an issue for this Arsenal team with central ball progression. There is, and we have to improve it. Now, the opposition gets to do tactics too, and when they're very compact in the center of the pitch, it's going to make it hard.

39:34We want to build up around the wide spaces. We want to go in over the top, or we want to get it to the wings. We are not as good as I regard us as needing to be in terms of playing that pass between the lines into the center parts of the pitch, playing inside the block. But if you can't pass it there you can carry it there and ethan certainly can do that and i thought he did that really well in this game and for me clive this was a really positive performance from ethan as a player to help us flow through the thirds i don't think we flow well yet i don't think we flow through the thirds well ethan if we're not gonna flow through it will run us through it he will carry us through it i think he did a nice job of that in this game yeah i'm not sure we're

40:17Elliot:always trying to flow through the thirds anymore that's what i said earlier but yeah but um so again we have this we close our eyes we have this picture of our of our favorite game and it's all passing through the third central progression out to the wings get it back have a shot we'll have a cross from the wide areas little one two mate these teams are watching the same films as we're watching there and they've got a three narrow and a three narrow behind that you know and then they're trying to create distances tight so where do you go you go outside the block and he can do that right he's played the time on the right wing and he spent time in the right eight right ten so when he's out there he doesn't he looks correct he looks like i'm okay here i can pass it i can switch inside he's got a great way to pass i love his way to pass and and he can and he can travel if it's blocked off i can i can beat you and then i can run away from you i judge him we all judge him on shots because we know if he's on target he's going in he had a couple blocked in this game and luckily otherwise he'd have definitely scored so where where is a development opportunity he said with his coaching hat on where development opportunity development opportunity for even i'm consistent with it is engagement how do i stay engaged in the game i can't let five minutes go past that me having a touch on the ball i've got to stay engaged i've got to move people i've got to hide behind people or their backs then jump out to receive it at the right time i must have touches i must let the game go around me i must show a personality in there this is not anybody not want to talk about his talent area because i want to see more of his talent this is what i want you to do you need to have more touches you need to show even if he's just to bounce i don't care bounce move bounce move again get it back and people will look at your body language that's Perfect.

42:08Elliot:People look at your body language and say, he's up for it. Can we get it to him? You can't. Eze's 27, right? He's got a CV, right? When he stands still, everyone thinks he's going to wake up soon. Then he does. And we're okay with it. When you're 18, you need to build your CV. You need to build your personality. You need to do it. And I want him to do it. Because if you're in the interior, you need to show. On the outside, it's coming your way. It's traditional football, right? you stretch five lanes it's coming to you it is isn't it we know this now don't we that's why we understand professional football but inside you gotta get it you gotta go get it and this is the this is the develop opportunity for him my worry well not my worry the things i want to see is his personality grow to receive the ball because when he's on the ball i have few worries you see what mean the one thing he has improved is his duelling he i i never saw in tackle till this season now he's going into contact he's bouncing people he's clearing out of his box these are all great stuff this sort of stuff you do alone but he's doing it in our first team at 18 do you see what i mean you go on loan pool and the coach sits down with you and you say to her what do you want what do you want to get in the year i want to grow in personality and i want to be much better off the ball can you work and put in position to do that and he comes back a year later and he's ready to go we're doing it in the first team you know so we need to accept that we can't be comparing what happened to smith row right exactly that boy went to rb leipzig didn't he the manager said to him i don't even care what you do i just want you to come back a better person a personality that's grown so we're doing this in the first team we have to recognize that he's not only guard you You know, he's not an SA, but he's developing.

43:58Elliot:And I think it's a really good thing at the club, dude. I really do think that. Yeah, let's start to wrap the Portville discussion, but I still think we should talk about Marino, maybe Martinelli a little bit, and we need to get into a Newcastle preview. So it feels like if we're going to maybe have more critical views on a player, what we can do for people is at least, you know, it's kind of like a compliment sandwich, right? You say a nice thing, then you say a critical thing, then you say a nice thing. So if we're going to give you some critical comments, we have to give you something that you're really looking forward to.

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47:50Shopify.com slash arsenalvision, all lowercase. Do it now, Clev! Is that enough of that? Indeed. Nailed it. Clev, um, Mikel Marino is one of those players that can get a goal out of nothing, can create a goal out of nothing. But if he's not creating a goal out of nothing or getting a goal out of nothing, suddenly it becomes very hard to connect to the player. I find him a tricky player to connect to. I admit that. And especially when he's in the midfield and the closer he gets to his own goal, the less he looks like he's got his boots on the right feet. Can you help me understand this performance in this player?

48:22Because I've seen him score important goals. I've seen him create important goals. I've seen him win a Euros. I've seen him get the third goal against Real Madrid. And yet sometimes I watch him play and I go, what is this player? So this to me was not a great Marino performance, but I confess it's a player that I have struggled with. So help me.

48:39Elliot:Yeah, he's not easy to read. And I've said before, I don't think we, we on the outside see him like the manager sees him. I think he sees him as a world-class player that's technically intelligent, that can solve a lot of things for him. And what we tend to do is we look at him on the ball and we see maybe some Doc Martins out there on occasions. And basically we think, is that what we're used to? Is that what we've grown up with? And then the ball's in the back of the net and we go, okay, that's all right. Okay, I scrapped my previous analysis because you just scored, right? But joking aside, I don't think he's easy to read.

49:19Elliot:But we had a bit of time to see him now, so let's have a little bit of a history lesson. So he came in last year, broke his shoulder straight away. Cheers, thanks a lot. And then you come into the team and he looked unfit. And he played in midfield. I remember the first time he played at Bournemouth in his 10-year-old. Remember when we played at Bournemouth? And I didn't like it. I thought we couldn't get after him, but we didn't get a lot of chance to see it because sending off, and then we end up losing the game. And then he sort of dropped into midfield. He was okay, but it's taken a while to get fit.

49:52Elliot:And we were mumbling and grumbling. Then he went up front. He was all right, you know. But then he started to score up front. Well, actually, sorry, he scored immediately, right? But he wasn't really massively impactful. But then he started to get fit. And then he became really impactful. and I started to look at him way differently. I think he was a critical player last year in our season to keep us going and keep us up there with the goals that he scored. But the way I am with him now is I think you need to give him one and a half jobs. I think you need to overwork him. And when he plays up front, I think he does the number nine target but he drops into a midfield role at the same time.

50:38Elliot:and i think that suits him because but when you play him as the 10 we then we expect one job from him and that is to do things which are a little bit easier on the eye and i don't think that fits in the eight i think he's that's his best position for me potentially but again it's a high workload position you know so i think he's a high engine player so you need to give him a lot but when he's the 10, I think it's not enough for him. And then he moves into areas where we don't need him to, that position is too important to our final action, to our final pass. If you're going to play the 10, you need to do it slightly differently.

51:20Elliot:I was speaking to Adrian Clark about this, and he said, if you're going to do that role, he needs to almost run into be the centre forward. Do you see what I mean? Which is basically telling me, why don't you just be the centre forward rotation? We've lost one. Why don't you join that rotation again? And I thought it was again last night we learn he was back in a center forward rotation and i think that suits him i think it suits him because i think he can see what went much like when kai does it he can see what's required he can see the game all behind him he can post up to people but he can go and smash people if we're getting over running midfield give him loads of work what he can't do is run down the sides obviously although he tries but we have people that can do that now so we can make changes So I think he's hard to read and I'm not saying I'm there, just that's my appraisal of him.

52:08Elliot:But I think he's a good player, but I also think it can be a lightning rod when we're not doing so well. Yeah, it's a weird one too, because one thing that I think is he burnished his reputation with Arsenal fans. So he arrived, everything you've said, I agree with. And obviously his arrival did not go the way he would have wanted with the shoulder injury. But once he started playing, I think people were not particularly convinced by him necessarily, but then he burnished his reputation as a center forward and he scored some important goals. But I think the kind of interesting thing there is if you actually look at our performances in the league during the period we were playing center forward, there were some of our worst in years.

52:48It's just that they were coming in between the Real Madrid tie and the PSG tie. And we weren't particularly fussed about the league because it was already kind of gone and so i don't know that we've ever at least in the league looked super effective with him at center forward but he scored goals and so people were willing to kind of shrug it off and not care he's just a weird fit for me you know and can i just add on

53:10Elliot:that he was playing a lot with um ethan and raheem sterling ethan 17 year olds playing on the right wing yes yeah so i think we would i was desperate for him to score the goals because we had no forwards some period last year literally we had martinelli out havertz out jesus out and saccar at the same time so michael marino was my favorite player at that period of the season because he was offering us something you know and i think that's really important to remember that without him i don't know where we would have been last year it's often been a distress call when michael marino is playing that position where you're questioning why is he playing that position like against you know uh city liverpool he's playing that position because we're short a critical player and he's kind of covering for that critical player and it was a bit the same with it so like i don't love michael marino as our as an 8 10 when there isn't another creative force on the pitch because while he does a few good things like a clipped ball or a clever ball through the lines he doesn't have the athleticism across the ground to move around that i would want in that position plus like when he does play an eight it's the right eight at the moment and he pretty much honed his career at real associate dad dad as the left eight like i'd like him to while we're judging him as a midfielder i'd like to see him back in his midfield slot the left eight with good players around him when the team's in some kind of form and then we'll have a conversation about whether he can be a very good midfielder for us as well as a very good uh striking striker substitute can i just say i agree paul i think his best game so far was forest and he played left eight dekren rice was rested remember and i thought he was absolutely excellent um and that shout there about distress call is a really really good one i think maybe in our minds because he fixes in our minds he fixes so many things we we use him that way we use him but then we judge him in that position and i think that's something that's a bit unfair on him and i thought he was okay against poor val i also thought he looked a little bit that's me psychoanalyzing i thought he looked a bit down and a bit flat you know i think he he must be able to read and hear what people say about him and i think he is a player that all that maybe when we signed him we didn't understand the signing you know and and we understand the essay signing much more you know because we we think we need that type of player but i don't think we ever understand i say we i'm playing the role we here because some people are absolutely fine with him i'm not sure we ever understood that signing and i think um he carries that burden throughout his arsehole career so far well let's let's be clear too if you want to say why could he be down i mean he got hooked to halftime in a very very big game in front of the world on sunday right no that's no fun but this is the thing i would say also about why he might be a bit flat if you ask me one of his limitations i'd say his engine i i think he's a player who fades and here's an interesting thing with him not something i would have expected but 70 minutes against liverpool at anfield on august 31st four days later 90 minutes for spain three days later 90 minutes for spain six days later 90 minutes for arsenal three days later 90 minutes for arsenal five days later 45 minutes for arsenal three days later 70 minutes for arsenal he's playing a lot he's playing a lot and and that is not the cadence of of what what he was doing so i i think he's someone who you can see when he's not fresh he just doesn't travel over the ground that can i say one thing i forgot what i I was going to say earlier on, sorry.

57:02Elliot:Much like Saliba's signing the contract is an indicator of where we're going as a club, because we're all positive about that, I think sometimes where Mourinho plays is an indicator of negativity. And I think we carry that in our outward. The outward world looks at him and says, he's a defensive midfielder. We're being negative, right? We are trying to connect with him. is he better as a nine or is he better as a left eight we think we're pretty conclusive now we don't really want you to be the 10 you know um because i think of the three positions that's not your best you know unless you play in a more aggressive style in the front two almost so i think he's become an indicator in a negative way and so as soon as you see the name of team sheet there are connotations with it now which is a shame right so um but it's the truth isn't it It could be true.

57:57Elliot:That's what people are thinking, right? This is a funny thing. Look, you don't have to like the player. You don't have to like any player. Forget like. You don't have to rate the player because like isn't fair. We like everybody who plays for Arsenal. We want to root for them. But like he's not defensive. I mean, where is he worst? He's worst in his own half. That's where he gets trapped. We did the City rewatch. He gets trapped in his own half. He got trapped in his own half again in this game. What's his best contribution in this game? He plays a beautiful little first-time ball into Eze running across the box and as he has a shot straight at the keeper so it's just the type of player he's very hard to read i want to move on from it though because there's a there's one other thing i think we're we're discussing here and paul i when i saw the lineup i was hoping it'd be as a on the left marino in midfield with ethan and norgaard and martinelli through the middle because i think there is a question especially based on his last two sub appearances and the way he's scored his goals, if Martinelli might be an effective player for us through the middle.

58:57Now look, with Nani Maduike playing off the left and Eze playing off the left and Leo playing off the left, it would be sensible to want to find maybe a new home for Martinelli as a positional option, but Nani is now out for somewhere between a month or two. So maybe he's more back in that mix, but he was playing from the left. And unfortunately, as opposed to the last couple of heroic appearances, it looked a little bit more familiar as a Martinelli left-sided appearance, which is simply... And he got the ball in space, isolated at times, and just wasn't super effective at beating his man. So are you disappointed we didn't get to see him more at center forward?

59:32Because this looked, unfortunately, just a little bit familiar to me. yeah i was the same in when i saw the lineup i just jumped immediately to uh oh this we got we got uh saka this could be martinelli through the middle my my dream kind of uh reinvention of martinelli's late stage arsenal career at the age of 24 or 25 um and so yeah that was my first thought but i'm i don't think that's where the managers i see no indication that that's what the manager thinks of him um and like i guess we're fine with him doing that from left wing making those runs in behind that can be a very nice angle to attack a slightly higher than it should be back line for him to make a diagonal or for him to cheat centrally and like what we need the the second option if we're not going to play him at striker is to have more fluidity more rotation on the left-hand side and look jacoresh likes to peel out to the left so um martinelli can rotate with him as a super smart he can peel out to the left he can play left winger at times but he can also be the left age who steps out to the left while martinelli moves inside what we need to unlock because yes you're right elliot to jump to your point this was a outside of the clever goal and one or two other moments, the clever cut cross.

1:01:04This was a classic Martinal, even Port Vale,

1:01:11the Newcastle of League One, managed to completely bottle him up on our left wing. I mean, for a lower league team, and part of that is confidence, blah, blah, blah, who cares? That's where he's at at the moment. teams do not feel uncomfortable when they see Martinelli on the left wing it should not always be so right if you have say Eze or other smart players Calafiore learning to find him they can start to move it around Martinelli clearly needs other players around him to help unlock him I know that irritates some people but it seems to be certainly where we are at the moment and if they can develop the kind of relationship between Yarkarash, Eze, for example, and Martinelli, where he isn't always on the outside.

1:02:01They don't always know the pattern they're going to face against him. And he can peel inside and make runs, get inside, make those run inside. We may see more of what I think, to your eye, my eye, and Clive's eyes, is one of his absolute killer powers, which is that run-in behind, the intensity, the directness. He had a great opportunity in this game that got snuffed out by the, I think the keeper did great, came out really early, must have learned from the Man City game, right? You'd think they went back and watched Man City. You'd think they saw Martinelli probably starting. You'd think they thought, Jesus, if that ball comes over the top, you do not hang back as goalkeeper.

1:02:44It was halfway down the pitch clearing that one out, so they learned. I love the subtle ways you sneak in ways to just praise Clive and get on his good side to your eye to my eye to Clive's eyes right because we only have one eye to watch football but he has he has two eyes you're literally squinting at the moment I have go back and look at the video this yeah that's true yeah I I have the least amount of eyes that that much is clear about football um I don't want to go too much further on Martinelli because I think if we're going to say it's a low intensity game where players weren't absolutely at their their peak exertion then it's it's unfair to then not give that and not excuse but give that grace to to every player because saka no shots one chance created one of four on dribbles the most playing within himself performance you'll ever see uh when he did get stomped on the hard tackle on the top of his foot i admit i briefly lost my mind i don't know why he's steaming into that challenge he needs to be smarter we need to be smarter but like Mikel was very clear to say he wasn't injured at the end of the game as if to say like don't be mad at me for playing and we needed an hour we planned for him for an hour and he's fine but with Martinelli you know no shots no chances created one of three on dribbles it just it just you know look let's put it this way with any player you bring your priors in and our priors about him as a left wing option have some of those kind of performances in them so it looked a bit familiar I don't think we have to go much further on it Clive, just a quick word on it so we can talk Max and move on to Newcastle.

1:04:10Elliot:Quick one. Well, Martinelli recognized you at a game of the weekend when he jumped out of the way to Keeper, by the way, which I think is a very smart thing to do. You have your career ahead of your son. But this Martinelli's 10-4 thing, I like the idea of a late forward option, somebody that can come on late and do that there. I also feel that physically it's something that you don't want him posting up in there. I still like him off the wide areas, but I want him to travel. And if you travel, what people do on occasions is you take a snapshot where he has a good touch and a good finish. I think, well, he should play there then.

1:04:45Elliot:Well, actually, he may not have started to run from there. You know, he started to run from wide areas and ended up in the centre-forward position. I do think he has some centre-forward striking instincts that we may need to try to invest in a little bit more. The way to do that is to get him to be a free, wide man. You know, we're going to play against one at the weekend, Antio Lange. although he runs in straight lines, he travels. He travels across the line as well and uses his attributes, which is his speed. And I think we need to do the same as Martin. They need to get the best out of him.

1:05:16Yeah, okay. What do you think of Max?

1:05:19Elliot:Well, you know that clip into Jokeres? Hey, they barely met each other. And they're already on a... Seriously, if you watch that clip, just re-watch it again. As the ball's coming in, they know what each other are going to do. down and is almost playing the pass before it gets to him he's just he's so ahead of that and jokeres is already leaning forward getting into his running i'm thinking hold on mate this is a kid right and he just met he just met this bloke and um and he's new to the club i'm learning what he does and he's worked it out in literally three minutes on the pitch he needs first time balls around the corner thank you very much do you mean it really is freaky intelligent and then the execution is great but we've grown used to that now because he's talented but for me it's the intelligence to work out what your what your teammates need that's that's a lot going on in a young man's head it really is and um yeah i saw a little note last night saying he makes the game look easy we all sit there we watch him we think well if you do that you do that that'd be the right thing to do and he just sort of does it bloody hell he's only 15 but he also looks really quick across the ground and um we're just very lucky to have him aren't we we're very lucky to have him in our in our club his development is going to be something that's going to keep us pinned to our seats for at least five five years what's he going to be like in two years you know he's going to be changing contractual situations at the club he really is he's going to be that good if he continues this development and the manager's speaking about him in a way he's really been transparent about him about what they have to do to support him in his studies how they get around him how the teammates feel about him how he's going through training i'm a press conference nerd i listen to every single one and i watch them and you learn a lot through them and he's really talking about him in a way which is letting us know about this guy you know and i've always been conservative about talking about young players because you need to see how they develop he don't put too much pressure on them we have responsibility on this platform not to be stupid with young men but he is very very talented and he is an exception and that's the one best way to describe him i think he's an exception to the rule in so many different ways i want to read you some of the stuff from the pre-port veil presser clive because I think we have to keep this in mind.

1:07:50He is 15. He only played with kids. He only trained with kids, right? That was his life. Went to school, trained with kids, played with kids. Now he is training with men. He is playing with men. His physical preparation is that of a man, even though he is a boy and his life is changing. And so Mikkel was asked on how to find minutes for max and how to find that balance. And Mikkel said learning from him probably, first of all, preparing and having a very good understanding of his new situation and all the things that are different in his life. So we need to change his times. We need to change his education, probably his allocation and where he is with his family.

1:08:33His diet is different. His sleep patterns become different. The training load is different. The amount of information, pressure, and exposure is different. So we have to manage a lot of factors. Into that you add a lot of minutes with very different teams as well. We need to be cautious. And that's what we're trying to do in the best possible way to find the balance to keep Max as connected as possible with the first team because he's undoubtedly a player that can help the first team. That's a really good reminder of all the things changing. His sleep, his body, his diet. You know, at 15, I'm checking in the mirror every day to see if there's a hair somewhere.

1:09:08I mean, this has got to start sometime, right? This guy's got a mustache and he's playing with men, right? It is incredible what he's trying to do, but he is a child. He is a child. And so there are going to be childish things he does on the pitch, by the way, right? Oh, he should have given the ball. Why is he trying to dribble that guy? Because he's 15. And so I think his talent is prodigious and impossible to ignore. And he can help the first team. But his life is changing in a stunning way. and when you go through that much change at once, I just think you have to be really, really careful.

1:09:44Can a 15-year-old body play 90 minutes against men? No, I don't think it can. Can a 15-year-old body go into the gym and do the same squats and the same curls and the same shoulder press that men can? No, and it's not even supposed to. So you've got to be really careful not to expect him and his body and his brain to be what it needs to be as an adult and the talent is going to tell you it can be. But who he is and where he is in life is very different so a little bit of caution he turned 16 in december then i think we should expect him to start games and if he isn't we have to ask questions about the manager kidding all the games oh yeah all the games okay um but yeah really exciting again i mean the talent the talent gets you dreaming but but all things in good time um paul newcastle is a tough game for us wherever we play it and atst james's park it's particularly tough they're not exactly in rip-roaring form I don't think they're the best team but they've shown they can be fearsome I mean even without a striker and without Gordon against Liverpool with 10 men they battered Liverpool a bit they are always going to be up for the physical contest that much we know and the refs are always going to let them be up for the physical contest Bruno and Joe Linton in particular so it is a tough one because you need to pick a team that doesn't get bullied, but I think you need to pick a team that can hurt that compact, big, muscular team that they put out.

1:11:13They have had a real tough time this season scoring goals, but they're always going to be pretty decent at blocking your path to scoring. So do you have a lineup in mind, an approach in mind? Because this gets pretty close to what we'd call quote-unquote must-win territory yeah so the challenge for us is we can match them physically i mean this is a big beefy huge arsenal team yep um the challenge is we can't lean into that too much we got to play more football than them uh quite a bit more football than them so that is the challenge the lineup i mean the questions all start with is martin odegaard are available fit ready to go because if he's not, what your midfield is kind of maybe has knock-on effects for everything else and could look a lot like what we did against Man City.

1:12:13Now, I'd lean into Eze off the left. If I'm thinking of an Odegaard-less lineup, it'd be Eze off the wing, have Rice, maybe do a little bit more left-aiding than he did against Man City, at least to my eye. I know we all see that game very differently at the moment. We're still working out what the Man City game really meant, but I want to see more Declan Rice as kind of the attacking threat on the left-hand side. For the time being, if we're going to play Marino off the right and I can't see how you're going to line up against Newcastle with Nguyeneri. That doesn't seem like a great matchup for him, at least not from the starting lineup.

1:13:04Then if we're going without Odegaard, then I'd want to see more Rice plus Marino and Eze off the wing to give us a little extra sauce. Or I'll take a left eight of Eze and Martinelli off the wing. and they've got good wingers on their side and there's work to be done. Maybe you have Trippier on that side or the other side. So there's definitely defensive work to be done by our options. So that's where my thoughts go in this game in terms of, but if we've got Odegaard, lean into Odegaard. In case you're wondering what Ebrecha Eze can do at St. James' Park, last season in his trip to St. James' Park, he missed a penalty and got hooked after 56 minutes and a 5-0 loss.

1:13:51not the not the best uh experience there for him clive what's the approach how do we how do we handle a place where there's not been a happy hunting ground for us yeah whenever we've won

1:14:01Elliot:there we scored we scored first i think that's really key probably one of the only games i've not seen either live in the ground or live on tv was the newcastle away the georginho game right and i never saw it but i heard all the discourse afterwards and and there was a real feeling amongst you guys who watched it live and go for the nerves etc that maybe a more slower technical approach slowing the game down slowed the crowd down it seemed to work on that day i mean um you tell me guys you watched it and that stayed in my mind that has and i felt when we haven't focused early in the game we could see the first goal it's become a mid-block low-block game and it's been about us scoring against them trying to recover a game and we'd not been able to but in the games where we've scored early we've been able to come out there with some points right so i think the first go is really really key i'm i'm of the opinion you've got two choices right you go into an arm wrestle or you go into a football match and i think this is a time for a football match to own the possession if we do exactly what we did against portville i know it sounds crazy right but i know i'm talking like similarities own the ball score early own the ball score late two nil exactly the same bring them on move them around slow the crowd down if we do that if we do what did he build out same thing same type of playing but obviously you've got to score you've got to score to get people off you get people out of shape how he's really good at shape play you know he can do it mate he can go 5-4-1 he can go 4-5-1 and he's really aggressive newcastle is like his own ecosystem they play football of the 80s and the referees get swept up in it and they can smash through people so what's wrong with your he's still got his head on his shoulders i can't be a yellow it feels like that type of environment and the referees get swept along.

1:16:00Elliot:You've got to get eight tackles before you get a booking. So I think it's important to slow people down. This is going to be at a 4.30 Sunday time. For those people in the UK, that means plenty of drinking time before the game. Newcastle is a wonderful city and they're going to come into that ground ready to go. Ready to go to turn the volume up. Us and Liverpool are the two most hated clubs for all their concern. Oh, Sunday as well, sorry. and they're going to bring their best game for us, their A game. That atmosphere is going to be hot. So if I'm the manager, I've got to call it down. I've got to say to my players, this isn't a must win.

1:16:37Elliot:It's all about the next pass, the next touch, the execution. It's just a game of football. Take it in small chunks. Don't make it bigger than what it is. You do this every single week. You do this every single week. You don't... Now, to us guys now, we don't want to be eight points behind Liverpool. So it's a must win. But we could be two points behind them if it doesn't go right for them on the weekend. We'll know a lot more before the game kicks out. So I think it's about being really calm, looking after the football, staying connected while offering a threat. Don't let them see you staying in areas too long, but they're going to press you.

1:17:11Elliot:They're going to get after you. Move them about. Go over the top. Get after it. Play in the areas you want to play, but do it with purpose. So that's what I would do. Yeah. Yeah, they have struggled to score goals this season. They have not been a great attacking force. They have three goals, I think, in the league this season. They've been held to nil three times. One of their goals came against Wolves that they scraped by one nil. We know they got two against Liverpool. Weird game, weird game. It is a really tricky one because you can go into this game being so concerned about their physicality that you don't play your technical players and then you're just in a fight.

1:17:52and they're not going to lose a fight. You may be able to fight with them, but they're not going to lose a fight. They've got giants at the back line. They've got giants in midfield. Can we fight with them with Marino and Rice? Can Yolkres go bang shoulders? Of course we can. We have the players to do it, but I just think that's the wrong approach. It's the game they want, right? That's the game they want, yeah. And I get it because if you look at it, You say, we can't afford to get bullied by them. But we can be more technical than they are. You know, we can play quicker, play first time, dribble them.

1:18:29I mean, if you put Eze out on the left against Kieran Trippier, Kieran Trippier can't stop Eberica Eze off the dribble. His feet don't move fast enough, you know? But Kyle Saka is going to have to be good in this game. Your best players have to play well. The one that I think, Paul, I'm a little nervous about is Jokras. They got big, strong center backs, and I don't know if he's going to be able to move them or run them and I'll be very curious to see if Mikel gives Jokras this game. I don't love to say it, but I think there's a chance Mikel Marino starts at center forward again. To have wall passes and combinations and win duels and press from the front because I think the ball can be taken off them.

1:19:08I think they're poor playing out from the back if they even try. Do you have any similar thoughts on that, what he might do with center forward? I mean, Jokras, just so we're clear, I'm not giving up on the guy, but this is tough these are the big big center backs that'll bang you around you got to be able to run them all game and move them you know uh i understand your concern i think it'd be very tough call for the manager to pull jokeresh for this game because kind of everybody would know what it meant that he's not there yet for this kind of game that he's not having he's not being a difference maker so i think if you're looking for that you you better wait till 60 70 minutes if if the yorkrish thing hasn't happened i mean uh people just want to play the best team for the game i totally get that but you're still building a season you've brought in this uh high dollar high pound player, high profile, lots of media coverage about this guy.

1:20:14Like, imagine the headlines writing themselves if Yachoresh doesn't start. And then on the other side of it, you got to back the guy and give him the tools around him. You know, the things we said about Mourinho, to some degree, we all agree that our attack isn't joined up yet. and we're currently judging Jokeres on how well he's playing when we're not really connecting with him yet. And the only way to fix that is to get him into games and to, you know, can we get Odegaard to start? Can we get some connectivity? Can we get Eze off the wing? Would you play both? I don't know. That's a lot of sauce in the same game.

1:20:57But you need one or the other on the pitch, I think. That was my biggest concern against Man City. I wanted a little more sauce from somewhere on the pitch. And, you know, but get Jokeres more sauce around him in terms of clever players finding passes for him. Don't give Marino too much to do as a kind of, he's our attacking eight and our only eight between the lines and the other two midfielders are deeper. Like give the attacking half of the pitch more to work with, then start to judge Yachoresh a little more so. But I do recognize the concern. Like if I were the manager, though, I'd be very, very slow to pull him for this game if I thought there was a way to make it work.

1:21:42Clev? Yeah, I actually think this is a game that might suit him.

1:21:48Elliot:I think it's very important that Newcastle don't know what we're going to do attacking-wise. So if they know we're playing McCommery now, what happens there earlier is they know we can't run in behind and so they're going to squeeze up on us and they're going to compress us and make it a tear up right if we have the ability to run in behind they're going to have to respect that they're going and what your Chris has done and for me I'm not worried yet about his execution because he's got the goals I can say he's got he's got three goals this season you know so I can keep the people at bay just just about right but he needs to move and he needs to threaten and while he's doing that you know what's happening that means two centre-backs are pinned to him you know what that means there's a potential of our wide men getting in one-on-ones if we play Mikel Barino you know what they're going to do they're going to go one-on-one with him and they're going to move people forward and that's what happened at Anfield when Jokic Reds faded we didn't have the ability to change they went man for man at the back and then dropped into midfield and had their 10 minutes of joy and scored within it right so we need to keep them back.

1:22:53Elliot:And if by keeping them back and pinning two centre-back, that means Saka can go one-on-one on a cadence if we get there quick enough. Eze, for me, goes one-on-one if we get there quick enough. And I don't mean one-on-one running on the outside. I could trip here once out on his right foot. He wants to get... Or Livermento. With those players, you've got to trick them and come inside and combine inside. And Eze's great at that. I'm looking forward for the day when we see Odegaard, Eze, and Saka in the team. Because the conversation will change. people will not be talking about access and creativity and things like that yeah because those three guys can look after the football and newcastle have to respect that you know and and so you need a guy at the top who can benefit from their ingenuity on the football so i think this is jokeres's game i really feel that strongly he's quite traditional as a center forward against a traditional english team that defend that way they're gonna he needs to run those channels mate and work that team back into areas where we like and then hopefully help us get that first goal it's uh i assume going to be cal fiore at left back miles i thought was really good against portvale but he played the whole game and i think that that's a bit of a a nod to cal fiore just getting the night off i don't think timbers fit and so i think that there's a potential that he'll miss the game at newcastle and obviously didn't play against portvale but he was on the bench which i think is a bit of misdirection i think there's a chance ben white might have to play this game and i thought it was a a mixed performance from white i'll stay with you just for a second clive if timber can't make it is it gonna be right or is it gonna be mascara mascara mate you don't think it'd be white then that that'd be a big knock for ben white i mean i'll level with you yet he's not there he's not ready he's not ready and it's this is why these games are really important you know if mascara plays don't forget we've got olympia because i know it's not important right because the league is important if olympia gets we trip over ourselves else we've got other chances to get back in.

1:24:48Elliot:But Mosquera is a raw defender. They'll have Anthony Gordon back, I believe, for this game. I think so, yeah. Timber can handle him if he's fit. I think I was actually pleased to see him on the bench, despite the rumors, because that must mean he's all right. But if Timber's right, I think he plays. I think he plays. Oh, if he's right, he plays. I'm 50-50 on it, is what I would say. Don't say anything. It's just rumors, right? so let's see if he if he if he's if he's fit he'll play and i know they've got a langer on the other side of the pitch and no one can keep up with him let alone califiori right so um but what you don't want to do is get into races it's not about lang it's about gabriel it's about gabriel how he covers that space how aggressive we are in those areas and how we don't allow him to turn down you cut those things off at source that's what you do right so so yeah it's it's going to be interesting but I would go the normal back four.

1:25:42Elliot:It's pretty good. Statistically, it's the best. And I just want to see the big three creators behind the centre forward and then Newcastle, see that team sheet and they will have to have a chat before kickoff. They'll have to have a chat about what they're going to do to stop us. And that's what you want. You don't want a team sheet to come out again like you did at Man City and their chat would have been a bit more positive than it would have been if certain other players were playing. Yeah. And look, maybe Timber will play. I'd say this. Mascara was, again, great at center back. What a player.

1:26:14When he moved to right back, made a couple of small mistakes. Like, right back's a different position, and it has different demands. And suddenly you're running with guys like Anthony Gordon. And, you know, it is what it is. We end up playing in a three, though, won't we, Elliot?

1:26:25Elliot:You know, we drop into a three, two. Yeah, of course. And then Califiori can then properly stay in there. And then we have the Mascara, Saliba, Gabriel back three. And that's our base on which to play. But our right back has a role with our exits. where you got to be careful about how you pass the ball because the right back is sometimes, you know, playing was a little... You know what? It's a really good shout. I watched the game. Sorry to keep talking, Lads, but if you look to that game, look at Miles' position versus White's position. I thought Miles' ability to receive the ball was really good by the way he faced the game.

1:26:58Elliot:Ben was wanting to get on the run all the time, and he wasn't a target from which to find. I thought he started a bit higher than he needed to. You know, he could have received it and traveled rather than try to receive it on the gap. You know, and I thought his spacing was wrong for me. But once he gets it, he's a good player, right? And when he started the game, he started the game sharp. Then he faded. Guess what? He's hardly played this calendar year, right? So, yeah, I think we just need to wait for Ben White to come back. Someone needs to tell Zubimendi what to expect and just say, look, Joe Linton's going to munch you.

1:27:31The first 10 minutes, he's going to munch you like crazy and there are going to be no calls. and you just have to live with it. That's how it's going to be because they're going to want to test him. Declan Rice has to be big in this game. We need a more prominent Declan Rice, I think, to be at our best. They have an away game against Union SG, Union Sangawa's, whatever, in the Champions League in midweek. They lost to Barcelona. They played well, but they lost. This is going to be one of those Champions League fixtures that they should win if they want to try to get through. So Eddie Howe has a bit of a challenge.

1:28:06And I do think to your point, Clive, if we can score early and if we're on top in the game, he's going to have to make a business decision about what he's prioritizing. But Paul, I hate to ask this question because it feels a little bit sort of mainstream media narrative-y, but it is worth asking, how important are three points in this game? Look, Liverpool have Palace at the weekend. Of course, Palace is going to be without critical players, of course. But that's just football. Liverpool did by the way lose their young center back Giovanni to an ACL which is terrible to see him he's a kid and you hate to see that and I'm not trying to be facetious but like obviously I'm not going to sit here and pretend I wouldn't be encouraged by Liverpool losing a key player for a little while but seeing a kid get an ACL is that's never a good thing so you know we wish him the best in his recovery but they play first we play second and if they can get an eight point gap on us as we go to St.

1:29:00James's park it's going to feel very must winny i'll be clear i don't regard it as a must win i do not think there is any gap in september you can't recover an eight point gap sounds big it is not that big in september we we recovered a bigger gap two seasons ago when they had their collapse they were more than eight points away and i think it was i think they were eight points away in january and we wound up finishing above them a couple seasons ago so again i'm not saying so it's fine if we lose that's not my point my point is i don't regard any game as a must win but i certainly would be sympathizing with anyone who feels staring at october coming and an eight point gap would be a very unpleasant place for us to be given our expectations so how do you how do you parse that yeah uh there needs to be another term for this kind of game i don't know what it is must winnie ish somewhat you know if is there a spectrum here the thing is it doesn't spectrum it It fits into certain categories.

1:30:01It's like this would be a little bit of a statement that we're for real, we're on it. And to your point, we'll have other chances to make statements, but you don't get that many in a season. So it's really, really important, right? Would we all agree three points here is really, really important? But no, anything can happen. It's bloody September, lads. uh you know we've got seven interlulls between now and the end of the season super yeah there are a lot of turning points where you either go on a hot run or you can go on a a cold one for for all competence in this race but like you want to set out your stall at this stage of the season we kind of haven't we're still delaying setting out our stall and this would be this game has a lot more on it than three points in terms of our title challenge clive you get the final word of the pod is it a must win and how many people get sacked if we don't win um you make me laugh i think

1:31:09Elliot:um if it was a world cup final yeah i saw with you i i i feel as though and i felt this was a city game it's time come on that it's time to show who we are come on you know and that feeling is in a lot of people and then we go and play city and i thought we did fine but obviously we didn't quite have the right team to start the game but we recovered it portvale come on just show everybody it's gonna be in five nil do you see then you see oh my god this is a glorified training session okay okay got newcastle come on that this is it now let's go and take her let's go and show everybody and i had that feeling inside of me um i think saturday will be interesting because obviously when little paul play palace we'll know where we are so we come after them and so but it would be nice to bring them back closer to us you know it would be nice it's felt as though we've been at arms for quite a while now against Liverpool I think there's a lot more serenity around their environment there's a lot more karma around their environment I feel really sorry for that kid imagine coming to a new country just playing your first sort of game and doing that awful right?

1:32:16Elliot:we saw it happen in Timber I mean he wasn't a kid but you just hate to see it awful awful so I wish him all the best but I want us to put us under pressure so I think it's a very important game the light is shining on our football club whether we like it or not doesn't matter how sanguine we are it doesn't matter if there are 55 games to go this season the light is shining what do you do in that scenario do you react desperately or do you stick to your process and play the game as on offer and that's all I want to see because that's the same for every game yeah for for me I'm I'm so easy to read right I I want to see us have the capacity to hurt them you know you can't decide what flies in the net right we could create 10 big chances miss them all they could have one free kick at the death and it goes in off our defender and you lose one no I want to see us start to show, especially away from home, that we can play some football that generates some chances.

1:33:24It is the case for me that I know we are good defensively. I know organization is good. And I know we're going to be right there in the last stages of the Champions League. And we're probably going to be right there contesting the league late. I just don't see any way around that because I think we're too good for most teams. And with the run we have coming up in October, it's a chance for me to be proven right or wrong, by the way. In some ways, we knew this was a big start to the season. October is the real season in the sense that it's a chance for us to see, can we run the course? Right? Liverpool away, City at home, Newcastle away.

1:33:53Those games can go either way. But can you run the course when you're playing the other teams? So far, Leeds, you know, Forest, 8-0. It's fine. But let me just say this. Going into this run before the season, I think I said the bar was 14 points. I think I said the bar was 14 points. And I didn't want us to lose to City or Liverpool. So I thought, get a win at Old Trafford, get a win over Leeds, get a win over Forest, get a win over Newcastle, and draw Liverpool and City. And I would accept that. Obviously, more than 14 would be great, but I felt 14 was sort of the bar. The most we can now get is 13.

1:34:3113's not far from 14, so I think that's okay. But 10, 10 or 11, you're starting to lose ground on where you need to be at this stage. You know, in a race, in a marathon, if you're competing, and you want to win it. You have stages of the race and you say, here's the time I want to be at at this stage. Here's the time I need to be at at this stage. At this pole of this race, I wanted us to be at 14 or better points. The most we can be is 13. So we've given up a little ground. But if we're at 10, we're behind that quarter pole, right? We're behind the time we need to be in the race. It's all right, Elliot.

1:35:08We're running negative splits. It's going to be fine. Nope, we're good. Okay, let's leave it there an hour 33 minutes is enough uh tomorrow we're gonna do a re-watch of the port veil game no we're gonna do friday night live and you're gonna join us yeah both halves both halves of the port veil game and sunday after newcastle we're preempting the instant reaction to do a re-watch again of the port veil game um and i thought tim's voice note by the way was great he said you know what people getting worked up about this you're not gonna remember this game next season just like you can't remember our game against bolton last season and i thought we played bolton last season and I had to look it up and he's right, we did.

1:35:44I had no recollection of that. So this one gets filed away. We've got Brighton in the next round. That's going to be a bit of a challenge. Sunday's instant reaction is going to be a blast and you're not going to want to miss it because Liverpool dropping points to Palace and us walloping Newcastle is one you're going to want to be a part of. So please join. AVP50's a code if you want to do it for a couple of quid and see what you think. Paul, thank you very much. Woohoo, Elliot. I'm disappointed that you haven't mentioned the new programming feature after Clive's Friday. Friday with Clive Friday night Clive who knows straight after that listeners we have what do you do we have paint me like one of your French ladies with Paws and Elliot I knew something was coming join us for that we'll do it we'll do it like a Bob Ross style adult painting session with Paul and myself Clive, please end the podcast.

1:36:41Elliot:It was a one-two. My name's Elliot Smith. We love you. And we will talk to you after Arsenal 10, Newcastle News.

1:37:10Thank you.