The Countdown – Is Arteta’s Arsenal Too Conservative?

37:54The second thing is it's really fucking rich of me to be like oh if they get an injury when we already have five of them. So you know what I mean like slot does have a track record of keeping players fit I don't know if that's luck or talent We do not. So we have to look at our own house a little when it comes to injuries before pointing to theirs. So that is fair. And that's what we've done. It's the test of two strategies, right? We've gone for the depth way. They've gone for the big individual talent one. So the end of the season will tell us everything we need to know. But I've always said this and I need to be honest about it.

38:22I don't think you win things if your best players are out, no matter how much depth you have. Like if Saka misses five months this season, no matter how much I rate Nani Meduike, I still don't think we can win the league. So at some level, maybe Liverpool are right. What's the point of depth? because if you lose a Virgil van Dijk for five months, it doesn't matter who you bought. They're not Virgil van Dijk. You know what I mean? One of the best defenders ever. Jesus, we've talked you out of our side of it. Thanks, guys. We lost him. We lost him, everybody. Number seven, how strong are the teams chasing Liverpool and Arsenal?

38:53Let's do this quick, two minutes on the clock. Phil, how strong are the teams chasing Liverpool and Arsenal? Again, very difficult to tell. I don't know yet. there's not a big enough sample size with Chelsea they are going to be there or thereabouts but ready to go the distance I don't think so I think last year they had the luxury of basically pissing away 95 % of their European season until they got to the final I mean they basically changed 11s so who had the luxury of doing that last year Cole Palmer wasn't even registered until January so that's going to be a big thing for them they're bringing in a lot of new young players who need time to adapt to the league to Maresca so I think they'll be good but to to stay the course probably not Manchester City I like a couple of their signings but I have to say I'm not convinced with them as a whole I think they've done a few weird ones since January not overly convinced in in where they've spent their money how much they've spent on certain players I think they needed to rebuild because we've seen Kevin De Bruyne leave, Edison leave, Gundogan leave, Karl Walker leave.

40:00So these are big pillars and key reference points for them over the last decade that they're going to need to replace and that would be difficult for anybody. I'm just not entirely convinced in a couple of their wide players, i.e. Doku, Savino hasn't really shown that he's an end product guy yet and I don't trust them defensively. I think now especially with Donnarumma coming in, how the hell are you going to build up? How the hell are you going to do that because John Stone's got a patchy fitness record Rodri is in and out of the team now are you going to build up with Ruben Diaz and Donnarumma doesn't sound good to me that's a lot of weight on Tijani Rinders doing something you know so I think they will be there absolutely one of the best teams in the league but to go all the way I'm not sure Spurs and United I'm not even you're going to entertain, then it just becomes the best of the rest kind of thing.

40:54Yeah. You know what my expert analysis is? We're three games into the season and everybody looks like shit. Villa are shit. Newcastle are shit. Spurs - It's not unusual. It's weird, right? Spurs got dominated at home by Bournemouth. United should have lost to Burnley having been knocked out by Grimsby. They look shit. City have been run through multiple times. They've already lost twice, and the only game they won is against a team that might finish rock bottom. We, to be fair, have looked okay, but haven't let anybody up attacking-wise other than Leeds. Liverpool, depending on which website you use, are slightly negative expected goal difference this season, having been pegged back from a two-goal lead by Bournemouth and barely won, getting outplayed by 10-man Newcastle and barely winning, and needing a 32-yard free kick to get any goals against Arsenal.

41:43It is a weird season. Nobody looks great. so Paul how strong are the teams chasing Liverpool and Arsenal I think you guys have done a great summary what intrigues me on it is that Pep Guardiola should have left but he's so interwoven into the ownership of the he said it himself in the past he's basically said you know we wear each other out me and my squad after x number of years whatever that is four or five you know three four years is probably max but he's part of the man manchester city ownership club empire and he's not ready to give up managing so he has stayed it's also fascinating how far he has diverged from arteta or arteta from him i never pictured arteta's arsenal being this different to Manchester City's blueprint of a couple of years ago.

42:40But, I mean, I always thought it would diverge. He's his own man. You make your own decisions. You've got to live within your own emotional landscape, and there's no way you have the same emotional landscape as Pep Guardiola. We're such a different, okay, some of the principles, the bedrock principles are there. We're so different to them. Pep's Manchester City still looks very, very small in the Premier League. Lots of small, dainty little players. They'll have really good days where they'll convince us they're going to be a real force, but I don't see how they go in two big competitions and compete across the season.

43:16And you look at the size, youth, and athleticism of our team, we got horsepower, so that doesn't scare me. If Erling Haaland were to miss a chunk of the season, they could finish mid-table. I know that sounds insane, but like he is such a unique force of nature and the rest of their team feels very lightweight like i've been surprised at just how easy they've been to run through you know what i think is a problem for pep sometimes if you stay long enough and you're successful enough you just start amusing yourself i think pep has just been like oh i'll see if i can get oscar bob to work as a starting player in the premier league and he's a talented young guy but you know i'll give him a shot and rinders and turkey will be fun to play with that you know that's a that's a fun day and like It's like he's trying to win a bet.

43:58Not to say they haven't signed good players. What? It's like he's trying to win a bet. Yeah, the only thing that could change this, obviously, is the Ballon d 'Or winning best central midfielder in the world has been out with an ACL, and he's only just come back. He's 30. He's recovering from ACL. If he can get back to Ballon d 'Or level, all bets are off again because he changes everything about Manchester City. If he can't, then I think it's going to be a long season for them. Okay, we're going to talk about Myles and Ethan. We're going to talk about Jokeres. We're going to talk about Mikel's mix for the midfield, Martinelli, and who's going to win the Champions League.

44:32But if you're going to watch any of that, it's possible that you may need to watch stuff that is geolocked in your location. And if you're trying to watch stuff that's geolocked in your location, then you know you need. Phil, you know what you need. What do you need? A VPN. Which one? You tell me. Nord VPN. Nord VPN, Phil. Phil's contract says he's not allowed to talk about VPNs. Yeah, Phil's of that age and demographic where he looks like he does a lot of illegal stuff. You and I are beyond that. You would think he'd be on this, Elliot. See, no, it's really just the drugs you consume, right? Phil is still in the age of consuming illegal drugs for recreational use, whereas you and I are consuming illegal drugs for like - Just trying to keep it going.

45:12Keeping our hair, keeping things standing up straight, if you know what I mean. We're on different ends of the illegal drug consumption. But we're not talking about illegal drugs. We're talking about NordVPN and those two things should not be conflated for the sake of our relationship with the brand. NordVPN is the best VPN in terms of speed, in terms of reliability. It is the best VPN in terms of ease of use. It's an app. You click and you can watch things. Nothing is worse than when someone sends you a video. They're like, oh my God, can you believe this? And you click and it's like not available in your area.

45:37It's like, I can't believe that it's not available in my area. But it will be available in your area with NordVPN. You can watch the streams you want to watch if you're going over to the UK to see a game at the Emirates. but then you can't watch your games because they still have something called a 3pm blackout because apparently it's 1947 or whatever. This is not a thing anymore because you have NordVPN. You can watch streaming services that aren't available in your area anyway, plus it has threat protection and if you're going to be on certain sites, you need threat protection. NordVPN.com slash Arsenal Vision.

46:04You're going to get a huge discount off your Nord plan plus four additional months on top. That's a good deal. NordVPN.com slash Arsenal Vision. NordVPN.com slash Arsenal Vision. NordVPN.com slash what was it again? Arsenal Vision. Phil, is that number that? indeed no okay next question can i check something the the amazing thing about the videos you were sent uh that blows your mind is that they're not available in your area yeah wow well well how would i that is not what amazes me when somebody sends me a video i can tell you how would you know if you can't watch it in your area you can't know what's amazing about the video you know what i'm moving on and that's for the best for all of us and you should heed my warning okay number six paul what are miles lewis skelly and ethan winery's current arsenal roles for the season oh uh uh well miles lewis skelly is a left back who steps into medfield from left back okay okay enough of the bit my point is no no that wasn't a bit oh okay but clarify sharpen Open the question for me so I can get to it.

47:16Okay, let me explain the question. I thought it was self-evident. These are players who will be curious, I think, about where they fit in in the pecking order and how they will be used this season. We've just signed in Capier. Cal Fiore's been starting. Where Miles is concerned, we seem to not want to use him off the wing. Max came in against Liverpool. We now have Eze, who is another creative midfield option, although maybe more left-sided than right-sided. Kai Havertz will come back. Mikel Marino started at Liverpool. Odegaard, obviously, is still there. These are important young players star players from our academy.

47:45What is their role this season? Have I articulated the question? All right. So with MLS, I was kind of thinking the old, oh, we're going to see him more as a midfielder. I don't think that's right. I think he's very much and will continue to be a left back who does Miles Lewis Skelly things, who's still growing and learning. And he's, look, both of them have gone down the pecking order. There's no two ways about it, right? MLS has gone down the pecking order because Calafiore has stayed fit and because Mikel Arteta loves Calafiore, absolutely loves him. And if Calafiore can keep his defensive nous and sharpen that up and learn how an offside trap works and not get twisted about by his tricky winger that's facing him, you know, he survived and I think did really well against Mo Salah.

48:40I thought he was going to have more trouble. but had he had more trouble against Mo Salah then like that's the battle between the two of them so but he's definitely down the pecking order I don't think necessarily Hincapié has I've got an open mind on that has come in ahead of him as a left back you know he's got a season to settle in there'll be rotation there'll be time at CB and maybe some time at left back and different profiles but I think he's kind of number two-ish at left back and it depends a little bit of the kind of game Like if you take the Liverpool game, the one thing I think is unfair is I think Arteta was trying to be aggressive and attacking with the Calafiore option.

49:21That was how we were supposed to hurt them. It didn't quite pan out quite the way Arteta expected in terms of the number of times Calafiore got at them. And so I think the neutrals didn't understand how much of a gamble that particular play is. And it's something Arteta is going to lean into more and more. but he loves Calafiore it's all about can Calafiore get his defensive game where we need it to be and I think similarly Ethan's gone down a notch in the rankings because we're going to lean into Eze more and we've got Havertz and Giocares and Arteta's going to want to mostly play those guys in most games and yes it's going to squeeze Nguyeneri but then Odegaard may have more of a fight for his play.

50:12Like, it's up to Ethan and it's up to Miles to step up as well. But this is definitely a season where they have one more player ahead of them from whichever side of the pitch it's coming at them. It could be Eze from the left is bumping Nguyenary's minutes from the right or from a left eight position even. So, yeah, they've come, but they've got to step up this year. They've got to grow. And it's the challenge for them. But, yeah, they've both got a battle on their hands. it's it's they're no miles is not a shoe in for that starting spot i think that's very very clear phil their roles are whatever we need them to be and i think last year broke our brains a little bit because we had an 18 year old miles lewis skelly basically playing every game at left back and a 17 year old slash 18 year old ethan being our right hand side when when bakayo saka was injured and I'm sorry they they are still developing any team with genuine title ambitions or Champions League ambitions barring Barcelona because they've got a freak like Laminya Mal in there and maybe Kubasi as well will not get to where they want to be with two 18 year olds in their in their team starting regularly and that's not a slight on them or their quality because I know it's there and I've seen it and they both bring really exciting things to the squad but it's just normal this is normal they were only playing last year because there were big gaps and they did amazingly well when given those opportunities but of course they've fallen down the pecking order because people are fit again so I'm not in the in the headspace of overthinking this because I think that they're signed on they're committed they're part of the squad they know what they need to do I think in the case of Ethan it's a bit more interesting because I agree with what Clive said maybe a couple of weeks ago is that we shouldn't just see him as the Odegaard right eight replacement when well I think we spoke about this earlier on in the summer about what should he be this year and I said he should be the trossard he should be the trossard replacement in that he can play left he can play right he can play as an eight he can play behind the striker he could play as a false nine maybe that's what Ethan needs to be doing now not just focusing on being this new revolutionary midfielder that can come in for Odegaard or replace Odegaard he needs to be a guy that we can rely on in three or four different positions at any time Miles is a bit different I don't really get the clamor to put him in midfield right away do I think he can play there yes and and let's be honest he basically does when he inverts as a left back but I think it's perfectly fine for him to drop a little bit it's his second season people have figured him out he he's come down from the high and the confidence that he was playing with last year it's just normal these are normal things and people have you know been a bit grumpy about it already because they're not playing but I don't see it like that I thought Ethan did really well against Leeds I think Miles will do really well whenever he comes on but we want to win stuff we want to win stuff and i think healthy competition is only a good thing for this squad because for too long through quality or injuries or otherwise we haven't had it so this has all broken our brains a little bit but i think it's a really good thing gosh that's yeah that's really good stuff from both of you i think there is this weird thing that we do we demand that the manager win things we also demand that the manager create a pathway for 15-year-olds, 17-year-olds, 18-year-olds.

53:48And I admit that managers have a lot of responsibilities and winning things is chief among them, but there are other responsibilities, platforming and developing your young talent among them. I think we have a pretty good situation developing with that. There aren't a lot of teams that have anywhere near the talent we have coming through our academy. Just the simple fact of having Bakayo Saka alone puts us at the top of the pyramid. But the goal is to win. And to your point, Phil, the goal is not to make sure that Ethan and Miles have their best possible season. Talent wins out. Ethan and Miles are incredibly talented, and my belief is over time they are going to be too good to keep out of the squad, as is the case with All-Star talent, as it was with Bikai Osaka.

54:30I don't think you should go into a season saying our plan is to make sure that these two 18-year-olds start as many games as possible, regardless of whether that's what's best for us to win right now. I do think I have a big understanding of what we're doing with the Miles situation. He was trained as a midfielder. I think he had a great season at left back. I don't think the plan was for him to be our left back. He's developing there. He might place, I agree with Paul that I don't think midfield is in his future as a huge role, but given Norgaard's injury issues and age, it may be the case that when we want Zuby to take some time out of the squad, Miles might get some League Cup minutes there.

55:07We'll see. The Ethan one, the only thing that I have a slight issue with, Ethan Winery came into the team at 17, and at 17 flashed the kind of talent to make him one of the elite wide players in the league. That's how good he was. Gets it on his left, can score from anywhere. The decision to convert him to a midfielder and not see him as a winger at all, if that is the case, that feels a little unnecessary. Now, maybe we feel it's necessary because we're so confident in Max's talent that we have to create a path for both of them, which, fair enough. But for me at Liverpool, if you said who's a player we could have brought on who with the quality in their left foot and some of the experience they already have at Premier League level could win you a game from nothing or get you a point back from nothing at Anfield it's Ethan off the right but it seems pretty clear we've decided Ethan is now a midfielder and that would be my only thing is that when someone at 17 flashes that kind of talent from a wide position I don't know that I'd be so quick to move them you know because to me he's iron robin he can get it on his left at any time and score from anywhere I'd want to cultivate that a little more But also, this is important.

56:12I know a little bit less about this than Mikel Arteta. So I think we're going to see how he develops in midfield. I'll be very curious to see what happens with these players. But to Phil and Paul's point, what I'm most concerned about is Arsenal winning things. The most talented players will wind up on the pitch long term. That always happens. Next one. Number five. Any new quick thoughts, Paul, on Eze post-Liverpool game? uh he was look he looked really good he seemed to the promise we had of him in our heads i he didn't get a lot of time there he didn't get a lot of ball everything he did did something um we saw him creating problems off the left wing problems that we haven't created for some time in terms of the trickery and the ball across the box super clever always heads up always looking to connect there's much more intelligence in his play than we have seen in in recent time combined with you know trickery power uh speed and he's really good on the counter the transition picking it up in and around our box and he you just like it's one of the great frustrations we all have is when you get a great counter-attacking opportunity and we've seen it certainly this early season where we're in a great position and we make daft choices as we go into the opposition half and like the guys ahead, like he'll tell people where they needed to be, where they let him down on the counter and he's going to make really good choices in the counter attacking space and I think we're going to love him and we saw two, three situations in this game where we looked really sharp on the counter.

57:55So it's only a few minutes but yeah uh he's exciting and like he's going to get the crowd up especially obviously at home uh he's going to get a buzz and excitement where we have had times where we're like how do we do something more than what we're doing here how do we stop passing around the semi-circle here so yeah uh he's he's hinted at the promise he's he's uh we've expected from him so i was excited by that you could almost say cameo but yeah it was good uh phil what about you no new thoughts i think he's gonna come in and be the left winger i think he offers us stuff yeah in the half spaces that we need and that we've lacked i think he can combine with people we saw it a little bit with erdegaard i think he can run in behind he's not the obvious martinelli-esque speedster that we'd normally associate with the role but he's more than capable of running in behind in transition as well he's done it on multiple occasions for Palace I think he'll help Jocarez by being a bit closer to him as well I'm really excited by this one I'm not putting all of my hopes and dreams on him because I think we need to be a squad and score from many different areas but in terms of what Eze can bring for me it's very clear and that's goals and assists and fun so nothing's nothing's changed for me.

59:19I would have liked to seen him like many people come on earlier. Yeah, I I don't really have anything to add. I would just say the only thing that I think I learned from it is the suggestion that he's not a left winger and can't play from the left wing just surprises me and that's that's not a problem. He's going to play from the left wing. There's also a little rumor breaking by the way as we record that Leo Trussard could be off to Turkey. And if Leo goes, then even more convinced that Eze will play from the left. But yeah, the only thing I have from this performance, he's really good. He can play from the left.

59:56The idea that he can't play from the left, I think, is nonsense. I think we got to lose Paul and we still got a ways to go here. But Paul, any last words before you say goodbye? No, I'm going to get off so we can speed up getting through these questions. You subtract a third. The listeners, thank you for your service. All right. Bye, Paul. Bye. And then there were two. The countdown is actually we count down the number of people on the podcast, and then they just keep getting down until we're to zero people on the podcast. It's like a game show. It's a game show. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I like this one though.

1:00:26I wrote these, so of course I do. Phil, will Mikel mix up the midfield this season? And just to give you a little more depth in that question because obviously Paul struggled with one of my questions earlier. He's now got Eze and Odegaard he can play together, right? He's got Ethan as an option. He's got Kai when he's back. He's got Rice. He's got Zuby. He's got Norgard. He's got Miles if he wants to move him in there. He's got Marino. He can not only rotate out players, but he can rotate out profiles. So do you think we'll see more of a mix and match midfield where we get Eze and Odegaard in midfield together with Nane and Sack on the wings?

1:01:01Or do you think Mikel's pretty straightforward? We'll get the kind of more one-in, one-out rotation when we have it. I really hope so because we've got the players and the profiles to be able to do it now. and my issue with Mikel is that he's very set when we're playing a certain way he's very set on that way whether it's an inverted left back whether it's the the left eight being a box crasher whether it's going towards Bakayo Saka and using that triangle with Ben White and Anur Degard he's very set on his play and his principles and I think that can only take you so far because people learn about you and they adapt to you and we've seen that now with Saka being triple teamed and then Martinelli having all that space over there is because nobody rates him as a threat or as a danger so they leave him and I think towards the end of last season people were figuring out how Myles was playing the role a little bit in midfield I think Declan Rice has been really good in his transition as the number eight but also did we get everything that we needed from him last season I don't think so so it's it's just how how do you make yourselves more more varied more unpredictable and i think we've certainly done that with some of the signings we've made but i think there's more than enough scope to to be different in midfield whether you play zubemendi and no rice and put two more attacking players ahead of him you could play rice as the sole six and put two players attack ahead of him you can play rice and zuby as a double pivot and then have a number 10 ahead of them it's it's really easy to be able to chop and change with those two because they give you so much both as individuals and as a partnership sometimes you can sit Erdegaard down and put Eze and Ethan in there you know we have we have really got to be more open about this because teams are smart teams are really really smart now they're switched on managers coaches analysts even the players themselves they're all super fit so being able to do different things at different parts and times of the game is is crucial so I would be very upset if we're sitting here in May and it's been the whole season and all we have to say is that it's been Zubemendi, Rice and Erdegaard with zero flexibility.

1:03:13I would have been very disappointed in that. I would hope and expect Mikel to be brave at times. I'm not saying every game. I'm not saying go to the Etihad and play two eights. But if we're playing a Burnley at home, if we're playing a Wolves at home, even if we're playing a Brentford or someone like that, can you be a little bit brave put your principles to the side for one weekend and just say today we need goals today we need runners today we need a bit extra on the edge of the box how do I put that in the team and I would just like to see a bit more from him in that sense to try and get more of our attacking talent on the pitch at once instead of literally taking Saka off putting Madueke on taking Martinelli off putting Trossard on things like that which is which is basically what it's been for the last 12 months.

1:04:03Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I've just not really enjoyed is putting players in boxes and the player that gets put in the box more than anyone, weirdly, somehow, is Declan Rice, where we've just decided this 100 million pound superstar midfielder with an engine unlike any other can't play six. Like, someone, and I include myself in this group, once said, maybe he's not the best ball progresser passing-wise, which might be might be true might not and then it was like well he can't play six it's just like but then you overcompensate elsewhere you know that's how you do it yeah but it doesn't even matter it because first of all it may not even be true but like yeah to your point i love zubomendy put declan rice as a single pivot because his superpower is how much pitch he can cover and play as a and Odegaard and play Nani and Saka and Jokeres.

1:04:56I don't know if it'll work. You know, we tend to do this FIFA thing of, I want to get all the fun players on the pitch. And FIFA, and this is going to break hearts, isn't real life. But I do think that that would be something that I would like to see. Does it give you more ability to access central spaces? Does it give you more ability to balance left and right flank? Does it give the defenders more things to worry about? Does it give more opportunity to play balls into Yoko Ress? I'd just like to see it. More top-of-the-box shots that lead to parries and rebounds that can fall to players. Will we see it?

1:05:30I'm curious. I'm very, very curious. Okay, number three, we're getting down to the end here. What's your current Yoko Ress evaluation? My current Yoko Ress evaluation is that it's been a fine start and a bit of a difficult start as well because we've played United away and no matter what you think of them where they are at the moment they always turn up for us at Old Trafford and they give us a game which is fine and we seem to struggle there so that's a hard game Leeds easier opposition we're at home you'd expect him to score he scores twice and then at Anfield that is probably the toughest away day he will have this season against Kanate and Van Dijk who were faultless on the day to be honest I think he got marshaled really well they bullied him out into the wide spaces they crowded him out when they needed to it was a it was a really hard day for him but in terms of him his style of play are we adapting to it what do i think of him generally i i said it when we signed him he is not going to be a guy that wows us with his amazing footballing quality the ability to combine with others and work around defenders he is a guy who runs hard in behind who likes the the physical battle and wants to get his shots off there's no nuance to this game there's nothing that we need to squint to see there's no tactical analysis that we need to talk about with him like angle bias or reference points or anything like that he's just a meat and drink center forward who's going to be there to fight defenders and shoot and my my opinion on him is is the same as that i think we need we need to learn we are still learning to play with him to play around him learning how we can help him and I think the injury to Kai Havertz was mostly seen as a good thing which I think it is but I think we're gonna miss him I thought we missed him on on Sunday I think it would have been a nice option for us to maybe rotate one in and and and see how they both get on or maybe play both of them at the same time it just takes a little bit of pressure away from him Kai's there to prove a point as well but now it's all him we have to lean into that and it won't always look nice we need to get used to playing with a low touch striker again um which we don't really like to do at arsenal because we're used to jesus floating about we're used to kai havertz doing bits in all different phases you know we didn't like eddie we didn't like eddie playing because he didn't do enough um and and and yokarez is basically an eddie on steroids in the way he plays in his own product but not actually on steroids we're not accusing anyone of anything i've seen him with his shirt metaphorical steroids yeah um so yeah i think he's just gonna look bubbly and bumpy and clunky and and he'll score 15 goals that's that's just where i am with him i i think you'll see him a little bit figured out um because i don't think he's an elite player but we haven't played for an paid for an elite player we've paid for someone who can help bridge the gap when we play the low blocks when we can when we can play lower teams at home to get us goals away from home just to give us a boost basically when we need it so he he's been fine he hasn't been amazing but he still needs to get up to speed he's not fit yet um it's just what it is i i'm really looking forward to the forest game actually because i think he and eze can build a really nice relationship together because he plays very closely to his center forward if you've watched him play for palace you'll know that he and mateta like to be very close together and i think jim uh daily spoke about that on the podcast as well so this is how we help him it's not just playing the ball in behind quickly and letting him run onto stuff it's about how we get around him support him and feed off him as well so it's been a hard start so anyone jumping to conclusions now is is a bit silly but I never thought he was our savior and I don't think he will be I just think he's a good player who'll score goals can I ask you a question though the one thing I've had a hard time kind of understanding seeing him at Arsenal versus sporting is both in terms of when we did the scouting videos but also just the data his underlying metrics and his actual metrics if you don't like underlyings if you just prefer things like assists his creative numbers were good.

1:09:50His XA per 90 and his assists were good. It wasn't like he was a zero-touch striker and he did create things for his teammates. Is it really just a byproduct of he had such gravity dragging defenders away that it was easy to create opportunities for his teammates? What is the reason why we've seen, I mean, no indication of that being in his game so far in your estimation versus the fact that those numbers were really pretty impressive at sporting? the reason why we haven't seen that is because he's playing premier league teams and not rio ave and esteril and bo of easter um yeah every week maybe even at coventry though 10 assists three seasons ago 10 assists two seasons ago seven assists the season before you know like it's been in his game to create it's there for others it's there i think he'll get five this year okay and and i i think that's a very conservative guess as well i think he's got potential to do more purely because of the area he stands in where he occupies defenders he's just naturally in and around the goal but he he's not a good footballer and that's fine we haven't bought him to be a good footballer maybe one of our best chances we created against liverpool was created by jokers wasn't it wasn't it against liverpool he made that sort of inside right run yeah and knocked it back to timber i think it might have been i think it was timber and his shot blocked and then maybe it was timber point is you know it was a good move it was a good pick out like i think he can do that stuff i think we will i think the idea that he will do nothing but run on to things and score goals is slightly wrong i don't think he's going to be a huge build-up player but i think in the final third if he runs the channels and drags defenders away he can find his teammates in the box.

1:11:37Like, I think that he can do. So it'll just be interesting to see. Are you worried? Or are you just thinking he needs a bit of time? So let me say this clearly because I don't want it to be misunderstood. I think he's looked pretty much like crap. I am not remotely worried. Okay? So those are two different things. I want to be clear, right? I don't think he's looked very good. I don't think we've looked very good. and even despite that we have a 5-0 win and win in Old Trafford in a game that we basically nullified at Anfield. I'm not remotely worried. I just don't think he's looked very good. I don't think he looks fully up to speed.

1:12:16I don't think the players are all on the same wavelength but you can already see he's getting better at the pressing. That wasn't good to start. Already I think a lot better. The running, he was making runs deep into the 90th minute against Liverpool. I think he's getting up to his fitness levels. I don't think the players playing with him totally haven't figured out yet. There's lots of videos you can go on the internet and watch, or you can use a VPN if you need to, but where you could just see runs that aren't found. I mean, obviously at Anfield, Gabriel Martinelli had a breakaway moment where he could have played in Yoko Ers and instead took it to the byline himself.

1:12:50So there's been some missed opportunities. Do I think he looks good? No, I don't think he's looked good. Am I worried? I'm not remotely worried. And oh, by the way, he has two goals. one that has brilliantly taken individualistic goal that shows that he can bully Premier League defenders even if it is more bottom of the table level Premier League defenders and a penalty that obviously showed that he has not the slightest bit of anxiety about being the man in the Premier League. So no, not worried at all. Just not impressed yet is what I would say. You know what I mean? That's fair. Yeah. Last two.

1:13:21Number two, I put it down near the bottom because frankly I just don't want it to be the headline discussion of the pod but I think it is still one we have to discuss. What's next for Gabriel Martinelli? Oh man, this is a sad one.

1:13:36He's getting pushed into Smith-Rowe territory. That's what's happening with Martinelli. And I think it's a big shame because as you said earlier in the pod, we had him and Saka going together on either flank, scoring goals, creating assists, looking great, playing with this kind of youthful exuberance and vibrancy and such a speed and and you know it was amazing those first few months with with jesus and the team were just unbelievable like the football we were watching there with shaka as the left eight with zinchenko inverting it was like what the hell has happened here you could see instantly that the levels were raised um and i think part of why Martinelli looked so good early on in in in that season but also generally for Arsenal was that he was playing on instinct he was playing with a desire to get as close to the goal as quickly as possible there was no thought about beating people or looking for people by the touchline he just wanted to get his head down and run towards the goal how can I be close to goal where am I standing on the penalty spot to look for rebounds and that was his sole goal he didn't care about anything else but now as Arsenal get better the teams change the way that they play against us and you need more you can't just be a head down where can I get to go quickly you need a bit of technique you have to find a way to bring people away from space you need to find a way to combine with others and I just don't think he's got it he hasn't got it in in the level that we need it to be anyway and I'm not saying that he's a bad player I don't think he's you know a zero by any means in terms of his technique or anything like that I just don't think it's at the required standard anymore and the the level that Saka has managed to reach hasn't helped because he's got the worst marker alongside him because he's just he's just blown past him now um and it's a big shame and it's nothing bad right some players can get you to a certain place but they can't get you further and I think that's what happened with Smith Rowe he came in that year he was incredible for us.

1:15:44Saka and Emil Smith-Rowe, it was the song, you know, we loved him. He was scoring goals, but we realized very quickly that despite the injuries, he wasn't really at the level to be able to do what we needed him to do. And I just think a similar thing has applied to Martinelli. Very useful player, can still be in the squad, can still score goals for Arsenal, but he's having a huge crisis of confidence at the moment. He's doing silly things. I don't think we're platforming him well either and it's just exposed him it's just exposed him and yeah I think we'll have this year with him and he'll be gone next year it's just a time and a chance for us to upgrade I think we've done it with Eze anyway he'll play he'll play against Forrest in our next game from the left and Martinelli will be on the naughty step basically not because he's done anything wrong but it's just a time to reflect how how am i getting back to the level where i was at and what do i need to do to get there because he he's redundant he's redundant for us at the moment he doesn't do anything of need or of use in the final third and that's a big shame because i thought he was going to be an output monster when i saw him i thought we were going to get four shots per 90 two shots per 90 on target 15 goals plus per season terrorizing defenders all game and to see that change has frankly been quite sad because we know what he can do but we're just not seeing it anymore yeah i i can't really disagree with any of that the funny thing is gabriel martinelli and and let's be clear about this a good player i just think the thing that's frustrated is he hasn't developed from what he was at 20 the if you look at that that season, that exciting 20, 21-year-old season, when he had 15 goals in the Premier League and five assists, 20 goal contributions at 20, 21 years old, he did it on nine expected goals, right?

1:17:48He outperformed. He had a 0.29 XG per 90. The next season, 0.31 XG per 90. The next season, 0.29 XG per 90. Now, the thing that really dropped off last season was expected assists, which went from 0.29 to 0.27 to 0.19. His shots per 90. Okay, something that I like to look at for attackers, I think really important. Again, 2.55, 2.59. But last season, 2.16. This season, by the way, he has one shot. His take-ons and dribbling, right? Something that I think is really important for a wide player, especially your success rate. so he's gone from 1.94 to 1.79 to 1.3 but his success rate has gone from 45 percent to 35 percent to 30 percent and oh by the way zero percent success this season he has not completed a dribble again three games in throw that away he's only played two games but you know it's not just that he doesn't look like the player he was I think it's actually more that he just hasn't developed.

1:18:57When I see a really bright, talented 20-year-old, in my mind, I think, imagine what they'll be when they hit their prime 23-24. And the biggest issue for Martinelli is he's still that same player. The head's still down. The decision-making is sometimes good and sometimes not good. Even if you want to say, well, he hasn't been put in the right positions. It hasn't been fair. There's now a lot of video evidence building up of good positions he has been in where he has not been able to make the right contribution. And so then the question becomes, how long do you wait. How long do you wait for a player you rate and you love and you care about and you're really excited about when the demand is also win a title or you're sacked?

1:19:35You know, win a title or this era is a failure. How fair is it to Mikayo Saka, to William Saliba, to Declan Rice? How fair is it to Gabrielle, right? How fair is it to Timber? How fair is it to those players? If the thing that you feel is holding you back is not getting enough output on the left and you persist out of a sense of loyalty. Well, you owe loyalty to those other players who are probably watching this. The Yoko who's making a run, not getting the ball, right? The other players who are sprinting on the counter only to be frustrated by the final action. That can destroy a group too, persisting too long with a player where it's not getting done.

1:20:11So I still think there's huge value to Martinelli. But I also think we have to be aware of the fact too that when you put a 21, 22 year old on 180 grand a week, you've really committed to them i think we've given him plenty of time and at this point phil i'm with you i think i think it is time for other players to get a chance to see if they can make the left work i would also say as a final point i think the best performances we've seen off the last couple seasons have not been his i think they've been leo's especially in the big moments so no no question about that yeah all right let's finish with this a little light one last one we've been thinking all premier league but it's coming back around that old champions league big ears the one that I want to win maybe more than any of them are PSG favorites for the Champions League again favorites

1:21:00out and out favorites no I think they're in a group of teams who I think last year yeah I think last year they had a very well a very impressive second half of the season in particular where everything just seemed to click for them a lot of their young players found their feet in the side their midfield trio were unstoppable and playing the best football I've seen in a long time maybe since the Barcelona midfield three were were doing their thing under Pep you know Vitinha Fabian Ruiz and Joan Eves were unbelievable they had Kvica, Due, Dembele you know it all just came together and fair play to them and to Luis Enrique for that because they were outstanding and they deserve to win I still think they have a big luxury every week of pissing around in Ligue 1 they don't have consistent competition that wears them out physically or mentally and I think that's a huge advantage um some people might say that it's the opposite of that but I think if you can keep legs fresh towards the end of April and May you've got a huge advantage over everybody in the Premier League so I would I would say that they're definitely one of the favorites but they're they're in a group with Barcelona uh obviously PSG Liverpool and Arsenal that those are the four that I would say are the elite clubs in Europe at the moment who I'd fancy going all the way and then just beneath that it will be like Bayern, Man City, Real Madrid you know a couple of teams like that as well I probably missed someone out but I don't really fancy anyone from Italy this year maybe Inter could be in that second group as well Napoli but in terms of the four favorites who I could see going all the way it will be Barcelona, PSG, Liverpool and Arsenal just purely because they're the teams I rate the most.

1:22:49It's a weird one. I mean, there isn't that team in Europe that you just go, they're a monster. They're going to stomp people. Barcelona's defending his shit again. Real Madrid are still figuring things out under Xabi Alonso. And like they have the talent to maybe become that, but they certainly don't look like it yet. Bayern Munich without Musiala, I think just aren't quite as scary. Although they have a lot of talent. They just do. You know, they're easy to write off, but they also have a PSG thing too, where I think that league is a little bit easier for them. Well, they beat RB Leipzig 6-0 the other day.

1:23:21Yeah, and by the way, kudos to Eric Ten Hag finding ways to humiliate himself more than he did at United, sacked after three games. Did you see the Build article? Yeah, when they were like, he wasn't sacked quick enough. Yeah, they said he wasn't even liked by the people he brought in, by his own team that he brought in. You got to love him. But importantly, Garnaccio was not offside. yeah so so Bayern you know I think you have to rate them Italy hard to know hard to know what to make of the Italian teams um Inter now are a very different prospect without Simone and Zaghi they've got Christian Kivu they're very untested manager I think Napoli will be a difficult proposition under Antonio Conte but again talent has a ceiling and I don't think they have a like enough to go all the way um and it's funny because in a way toiland is not going to win the champions league for them you know it's basically what i'm saying or scott mcdomineau no uh i rate mcdomineau um but but the crazy thing is also that the the premier league teams in and other than liverpool and arsenal i don't think are that convincing either you know once upon a time you'd expect united chelsea arsenal city you know or united chelsea liverpool arsenal or whatever it was.

1:24:40They were all going to be good. They were all going to be there late. That's not going to be the case. You know, Newcastle are not going to be there late. Chelsea, I really don't know what to make, but I don't expect that they will either. So this feels very open and it felt a little bit open last season, but we went into the late stages of the Champions League with so few players and we know what happened. If we are fit at the pointy end of this season, I'm really curious to see what McHale prioritizes. If we are in a title race in April and if we are still in the Champions League in April. It's that old tough decision to make, right?

1:25:14We probably dropped points against Villa at home two seasons ago with some very, very weird substitutions. Go back and look at the game. Look who we brought on in the 65th and 70th minute against Villa in what became the title decider for us. It was because we had the Bayern away trip coming. There's no other analysis of it. and they were weird subs. Fabio Vieira? I think we brought in Smith Rowe when he wasn't really playing for us at that time. I had just looked at it and in fact, you know what I'll do? I'll bring it up because it was notable to me in terms of being a little bit strange. So this is a game we wind up losing 2-0.

1:25:56Now, if you remember, we had the big Leo chance early. Kai Havertz was in on goal like 40 different times. I can't watch that game. No, they wound up scoring in the 84th and the 87th. But here are the changes we made, okay? In the 67th minute, Tomiyasu came on for Ben White, Martinelli came on for Leo, Jorginho came on for Gabriel Jesus, and Smith Rowe came on for Martin Odegaard. That's, I mean, that last one in particular, bringing Smith Rowe on for Odegaard, an important Premier League game after 79 minutes, that to me is, we need to be good for Bayern. And I need Odegaard to be fit for that game and like right after that sub almost immediately after like within three minutes we concede um so again not to reopen old wounds but it's the point that trying to win the premier league in the champions league is the biggest reason i think premier league teams don't win it the champions league more because it is the hardest league to go and win and then also still be fit at the end of it there's no winter break there's none of that stuff so for me phil we are favorites.

1:26:59Liverpool are favorites. But if one or both of us are very much in a title race at that stage, how the managers manage that and whether it costs them one or the other will be very, very interesting. So we'll just have to see. Do you not think that's what we've tried to remedy though with this window? Isn't the whole point of building this deep squad so that we can be ready to be able to do both things at the end of the year? See, that's where I'm a contrarian though in the sense that until someone proves otherwise, I've not seen a team that come April doesn't have a set 12 or 13 best players that they're just using.

1:27:36You know what I mean? Like in my mind, am I like, well, you know what? In the Champions League, we'll play Nani off the left and Kai through the middle and or Nani off the right, Kai through the middle, Martinelli off the left, you know, so on and so forth. And then in the league, we'll play Eze off the left and joker's through the middle and sack of sure that that all makes sense and we have the depth and we could win both that way but in my mind i'm like when you're playing psg away you play your best 11 when you have city away yeah of course you play your best and your best 11 has to be the same you know what i mean so i totally agree with you about depth but in a weird sort of way of undermining that point i still think the best teams know their 15 best players intend to use them come march april may you know yeah i'm not disagreeing with that and i'm not saying that we should chop and change based on who we've got in april or may i'm saying that being able to take off saka in the 70th minute or being able to swap one of them out in a midweek game for example around christmas could have a knock-on effect for for the end of the season but um you've changed that's that that's a luxury we haven't had you know that's why we were so bad if sack is sitting on 2400 minutes in in april instead of 3100 minutes that could be the difference in terms of what you get from...

1:28:49No, great point. You've changed my mind. Yes, the depth is why we're winning the double. And I realize people are going to say I'm being negative by not saying the quad. I still think it'll just be the double, the Champions League and the Premier League. So then we can decide... I'll take it. We can decide if Mikel underperformed with the squad that he's got. The irony is that where the depth really may show is in the domestic cups where we can rotate completely and still be very strong. So, okay. Yeah, I think we got through those lickety-split with alacrity. Expeditiously. Whatever you want to say.

1:29:17Phil, thanks, man. pleasure man always fun Friday night Clive tomorrow some power rankings with Clive and a few more other things depending on what's on his mind would love to have you for that ABP50 is the code if you want it for a couple of quid and see what you think but that is definitely enough of that my name is Elaine Smith we love you and we'll talk to you after Arsenal 10 for us now

1:29:47Thank you.