Two Very Different Halves Against Kairat Almaty

38:56He will beat men that are way worse than him. And you can see that as damning with faint praise, but I don't. I think there are a lot of players that sometimes play down to the level of their opposition, and Martinelli does not do that. There are certain levels I don't think he goes to but when the level is beneath him I I think he's quite good at exploiting it the cutting on his right shot and curler that just missed the top corner I just wish he'd do that more like there are things I see him do against worse opposition that he doesn't do against the better opposition and I wish he had the courage to do those things more but so quickly before we move on to the second half and and some midfield stuff what do you make of of Martinelli looking good a game after he wasn't picked and Nani kind of confusingly came on and Saka was moved left because that would have certainly been something that had Martinelli scratching his head and this was a performance to try to try to show that he belongs on that side yeah he was good I mean in terms of a game and particularly a second half where you complain or you can complain about where some of the intensity went I thought he was always on it He always plays with a sort of scrappiness and a desire to do things.

40:06He likes to run his man. Like you said, he smelled blood with that fullback very early on. And he was like, you know what? I'm going to run you. I'm going to try and run you. And there was another game in the Champions League. I think it might have been against Sevilla where there was a young right back coming on and he just killed him. You know, I think he got past him nine times or something like that, Kwanlu. For me, the issue with Martinelli is how consistently can you be a threat? And then do I trust your finishing in the key moments? Those two questions have been an issue for me this year.

40:38And especially because we've known him for so long now, we can see what's good in his game, but we also know the faults in his game. So I think a lot of our analysis when it comes to Martinelli is purely just down to time and familiarity. But I think in Europe, again, this is not serious opposition, but I think generally in Europe, the games are more open. there are spaces to exploit and he suits this kind of environment way more than premier league games because when we when he first had that 15 non-penalty goal season teams were not sitting in a deep block against arsenal you know we were the surprise package of the year playing incredible football there were spaces to exploit as soon as teams got a bit smart and said okay we're going to put two two wingers on this side he got lost so i think in europe where they don't have that sort of negativity to come in and sit in with two banks of four and then two players just in front um you know we are we are more open to using him but in the league i still think he's been really inconsistent so look i can't complain with him playing well he did play well yesterday i thought he was the most energetic player we had um but that those sort of doubts and questions will always linger in my mind.

41:54Yeah. And I think it is sort of a floor-ceiling question. I'm leaning on this more and more as I think about Arsenal because I think our floor is the highest in the world by some distance. I think on our worst day, we are still good enough to beat most teams and maybe good enough to beat every team. I don't think Arsenal... I mean, over the last four years, But this season with the group we have, I think our floor is exceptionally high. And I think Martinelli is a great example of a player like that. If you tell me Martinelli is starting a Premier League game, I expect there to be a reasonable level of performance that has a chance to help us win a game.

42:34The question is our ceiling. Can we reach that really elite, dominant, otherworldly level that I think many of us believe is in the range of outcomes for Arsenal? And that's where certain players right now are not necessarily getting to the level of what I think our ceiling can be. Martinelli's a player who I think, for example, I'm not sure if he's quite at that elite level to take us there. We all expect Bakayo Saka to be there, which is why I think there's an urgency to see him produce more. Striker is a position, again, where we think maybe our ceiling has been limited and there's a hope that Kai Havertz can take us there.

43:06And as we're going to come on to, the midfield construction is another example of, we have a lot of very good players. What's the most elite group that we can put out there to try to unlock that ceiling, especially in attack? So that is where we're going to go next. We'll talk about the midfield. To give us a quick breather to set ourselves for that key conversation, we're going to tell you that if you are sent a video and you click it and it is not available in your area, that is totally, thoroughly, and completely unacceptable. In the year 2026, you should be allowed to watch whatever video you want.

43:45In fact, I wish there were fewer videos we could watch, candidly. But if you want to watch it, NordVPN is the way. If you want to stream it, NordVPN is the way. If you want to watch the football, it is always on, by the way, the football. Watch it. Watch all the football. You need NordVPN because when I go to London, when I'm privileged enough to be at the Emirates, to see heart-pounding action like Arsenal Wolves, but I want to also see the other Premier League action at 3 p.m., which the Lord hath said you shall not watch. I shall watch because I have NordVPN. When I want to stream a TV show that's coming out a year from now in my area, but it's already out in another area, I'm going to watch it now.

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47:30um i tell you if i could have star trek technology i would be myself somewhere that's warmer than uh the sub-zero temperatures we are experiencing here that's all i have to say about that all right phil it's a poor second half it really is it is a really poor second half against poor opposition and i i gotta be honest in a season where we're trying to win everything getting too worked up and if you find yourself getting too worked up about a second half in a dead game that has no import, that means nothing to our season against crappy opposition, you need to take a breath because it's going to be hard to run the course if you're getting that worked up about it.

48:05But it is fair to call it a poor half. And let's just say it, and I'm going to tell you what's going on. My WhatsApp chats, I'm going to tell you what's going on with the friends I talk to, with fellow podcasters, all kinds of people that I'm chatting with, is that there's starting to be, maybe at an unhealthy level, a focus on Martin Odegaard's role in performances. I have seen this before at Arsenal where a player becomes a lightning rod. And candidly, I've been guilty of it myself. I go back to Granit Xhaka. I remember before Mikel Arteta arrived and Granit Xhaka was playing the six. Granit Xhaka, it's Granit Xhaka, it's Granit Xhaka.

48:39And then when he moved to the eight, what did we talk about? We can upgrade at the eight and Xhaka. And like, it just happens. Sometimes our focus goes to players. Now the irony is the focus is going to go to the captain more quickly because they wear that armband. So I am cognizant of that. Excuse me. But I think Odegaard is an interesting one because prior to his injury, the big injury he had to his ankle, this is a player who routinely got goals and assists. That was a big part of his game. He was also, in addition to getting goals and assists, one of the best middle third midfielders in the world in terms of ball progression.

49:14And when you fuse those two things together, I think Martin Odegaard was literally a one-of-one caliber player. One of the unique talents in world football because he was a box-to-box player who also was a final third killer. that final third piece has waned from his game in recent seasons and he now finds himself in a team that has quite a bit more talent in the middle third to do some of the middle 30 stuff that possesses the ball higher up the pitch that has fullbacks that can push higher up the pitch that has center backs that can bring the ball up the pitch and so it is incumbent upon him i think to really rediscover some of that final third presence and that has not been consistently there and that's what I diagnose as why we're having this sort of anxiety especially in an Arsenal team that's begging for a little more incision, creativity, final product and that's not entirely on Odegaard but it does seem like he's becoming a lightning rod for the discussion around how we create chances and look dangerous and it doesn't help to come on against crap opposition.

50:14In a game we had 3XG in the first half and you wind up having 0.7XG in the second half. So I know that's a big windup but I think it's fair to kind of state why this is getting the attention. So what do you make of the second half performance and the extent to which, rightly or wrongly, a lot of focus is on him for that performance? Yeah. Martin Odegaard is not the reason why we had a poor second half yesterday, but I thought he was a contributing factor. And it sort of comes into the Eza conversation as well because I know he was on the other side playing primarily from the left, but I thought this was a good performance from Eza.

50:54You know, he played mostly in first gear. He was jogging about in the playground during his lunch break. It was that sort of vibe. But obviously, you have to take the level of opposition into account again, just like any of our other players. But I didn't really connect with - Was he in first gear or is that just how he looks playing football? That's mostly how he looks. But last night was extra first gear. I mean, 77 touches, six key passes. There were some nice flicks and bits of combination play around the box. There were a few passes that he fizzed through the lines, including in the lead up to the opening goal.

51:27Things won't always come off with him, but you can see the intention to play forward or create something in every action. And one of the main criticisms about his performances so far is that he isn't involved enough or that game's passing by. He was plenty involved last night. there's a three minute ish comp going around of his performance go and watch it maybe you'll see things differently if you didn't relate to his performance there was an end product in terms of goals or assists but I really think it's time to lean into him at some point because in my opinion it's not quite working with Odegaard at the moment I'd like to see us play a little bit differently more direct because even last night when Odegaard came on he slowed us down you know we lose a lot of threat in central areas with Erdegaard because he's much more comfortable on that right-hand side.

52:16He likes to be on the ball, few too many touches. You don't need to do something in eight touches that you can do in three. Those little spins that he does to sort of gauge where he is on the pitch and wait for people to move around him. You don't need to do that all the time. And those little scooped passes that are not coming off at the moment, they need to be restricted to one per game. Otherwise I'm fining him, not four per game. You know, it's just little things like that. And it's sort of similar territory to what we see with Martinelli, right? There's a lot of familiarity that we have with Odegaard.

52:49We know what he does. We know when he does things, the goals have dried up. So that's putting a natural focus on him. For me, it's just about the speed with which we play. And I think that's been a general issue, not just an Odegaard issue, but it is an Odegaard issue because he is not doing things quickly enough he's playing in areas that are not dangerous enough you know why did we buy these kind of players as a Madueke because we needed more central threat I think with Odegaard that sort of zone 14 threat has disappeared um and again yesterday I just I know there were a few headers that he sort of came into late in the box it's just not working it's just not working at the moment and it doesn't mean that he's crap and we need to sell him this summer and strip him of the armband i would just be open to trying something else for a couple of games to see if we can just inject something different into this team or play a different way do we need to go more into a 4-2-3-1 and use as a as a more traditional 10 or support striker that can be close to the center forward you know do we want our creativity coming from wide areas instead of central areas with erdogan there's all these different figurations that we could have is it that the midfield three isn't balanced enough and that they're stepping on each other's toes you know Clive was very early on that after the Villa game there are there are a lot of things to think about here but I'm just looking at the individual and what I see from the individual is not enough goals and assists and then if you're not doing those you need to be influencing play a lot more and I don't see that either so maybe he just needs a couple of weeks out of the team for us to try something else but i can't escape the fact that we slowed down a lot and lacked more intensity when he came on the pitch compared to the first off yeah i i think there is currently a phenomenon happening too in the way we talk about football where the worst people say the most toxic things and poison the well for good thoughtful people who just want to have a good thoughtful chat right and so things get pushed way out to the polls and get quite binary and maybe this is happening beyond football to be fair but like martin odegaard is not crap he is the opposite of crap he is an excellent footballer the extent to which martin odegaard's game right now is at the level in the final third that it formerly was is a fair and open discussion for a team that needs more final third presence that you know if I think about Paul and his toothpaste stuff the toothpaste all the way out of the tube at this point we get the ball at the pitch that's not an issue you might say we don't get it up the pitch quickly enough but we do get the ball at the pitch and that is not necessarily an issue and I mean you could if you wanted to convince me that Martin Odegaard was going to play deeper instead of Zubomendi it was going to be Rice Odegaard and Eza but Odegaard was going to to be more in the double pivot with Rice, and Eze was going to play more between the lines, you could talk me into that.

55:51It's not that I don't think Martin Odegaard has a role to play, and it's not that I don't think Martin Odegaard is good, but he's scuffling for some of the parts of his game that used to come very naturally. And I think, first of all, let's just remind ourselves what we're talking about, because I think sometimes you can lose sight of the context. And so if we just look at Martin Odegaard's Arsenal career in the Premier League, in the 22-23 season, he had 15 goals and 7 assists, 22 goal contributions. In the 23-24 season, he had 8 goals and 10 assists, 18 goal contributions. In the 24-25 season, he had 3 goals and 8 assists, 11 goal contributions and 26 starts.

56:40Again, like, better than I think people portrayed it. Now, to be fair, one of the goals was a penalty, so two non-penalty goals. And this season he has one goal and three assists. And if you just look at it in terms of, like, per 90, his goals per 90 have gone from.43 to.23 to.12 to.09, okay? and that's just it's not it's not meant to be hysterically critical it's just where we're at in a team that currently needs that you know phil the the final third entries and the ball progression that stuff is in more abundant supply at present anything stand out specific to this performance like a specific moment that stands out to a specific instance that you want to highlight no i mean i can't remember where it was i mean there was just one moment where he did the usual thing he drifted out to the right and then i think he took about 12 touches just turning in a circle before trying one of those scoop passes that eventually went out for a goal the scoop pass drives people crazy i mean i look it's an attempt to be creative and i don't know why it drives people so crazy but i think it's become sort of a stereotype of the the lack of incision like sort of a when does that work kind of thing you know um yeah and i for me it's it's just a general slowing down of the tempo he feels a bit goldilocks at the moment he needs the situation to be just right you know the defender needs to be standing over here um we need saka making this run we need somebody else making that run whereas before i think a lot of it felt off the cuff and improvised which allowed his technical ability and quality to shine through like the pass against Bournemouth to set Saka away that did not feel slow that was like bang the movement's in behind I'm gonna play into that space and we score a goal you know but most of the time now he gets his foot on the ball he drifts left he cuts out to the other side he bounces a pass off somebody he gets it back he floats across to the back post that the goalkeeper just comes and collects really easily and then the attack breaks down you know it just it just feels like we might and again this is not an issue exclusive to Odegaard because I think it's running through the team at the moment but we just need a bit more punch and a bit more oomph when we when we do things in the final third instead of you know I'm not going to say the horseshoe of death because I don't think we're there at this moment but we're a bit safe um and that's why I'm just looking elsewhere in the team to maybe give us something different I don't know other people will have different opinions on it but it's tough I think it's tough too because there's this perception that it's Odegaard or Eze who are such different players that it feels difficult to even try to compare them in terms of what their involvement would be I mean you just completely change the balance of the midfield you do sacrifice things by having Eze in the team for sure you sacrifice things the question I think people have is are those things worth sacrificing to address other areas where we consider ourselves having some flaws.

1:00:00I've been very clear. I would like to see Eze go out and play left a little bit. You can play whatever midfield you want. You want to play Zubamendi, Rice, Marino. You want to play Zubamendi, Rice, Kai. You want to play Zubamendi, Rice, Odegaard. He can drift in. He can combine. He can affect the play where he likes to in the half space, top of the box, around the box where I think he is particularly lethal. Okay, maybe you lose a little bit of the tracking back, whatever you want to call it but that's the sack that's where we happen to make the sacrifice and the reason I feel strongly about that as well is I think Mikel Arteta has sometimes been wedded to a hierarchy of players and positions and maybe not looked around the bend a little bit at what's coming and I think you have to see the things that are coming and I think Leo Troussard has been one of our best players this season but I think he's waning a bit and it might be time to think about whether that position is an open competition rather than just I write Leo Troussard's name and pen on the team sheet for games that matter.

1:00:53Not because Leo isn't still good, but I think he's waned enough that that's an open audition now. And you know what happened with Eddie Nketiah, who got a long run at striker before we shifted to Kai and probably should have won the league that season. Rob Holding was in the hierarchy when we lost Tomiyasu and Saliba, and he played center back as Teddy Kibior, and probably were a little slow to make that change. So I think there are opportunities for Mikel to see certain positions as an open audition. And look, I think when you know a player's scuffling with their game is when they start doing things that they naturally have always been great at less well.

1:01:27Odegaard's passing is just not as good as it was, just his regular old passing. I mean, against Manchester United, Martin Odegaard passed at, what was it, 67%, right? Just like not what you expect from him. Last night against Kairat Almaty in a game where we passed it basically 90 % for the whole game, 79 % passing. And if you want to say, well, he's trying things, he created one chance. One chance. He had three shots. Now, two of them are headers. But to his credit, he's arriving on the end of the move. So I think that is a good sign. But, you know, 40 % of his duels against a pretty weak Kairat team, one of three dribbles, one chance created, and 79 % passing.

1:02:10It just does feel like he's scuffling a bit, Phil. So I don't think the debate is, you know, again, is this player not good? Because I just think that's hyperbole and I think that's the kind of debate we don't want to be drawn into and that poisons the well for this discussion. I think the way I'm looking at it, the midfield three is absolutely an open competition. By the way, I'd have Zubamendi in every one of those midfield threes. There are some people that might say on current form, that's not a given either. Maybe it's time to try Rice as a six. Maybe it's time to give a Rice-Odegaard double pivot a chance.

1:02:45But so, I think to just wrap on this, is your expectation that Mikel feels way more convinced than we do that Odegaard is the guy and will start all the big games and he will let him try to play into form? Or do you think that we might start to see other midfield combinations in an effort to figure out which one looks the most potent? I think Mikel Arteta has a huge amount of respect and appreciation for Martin Odegaard, but I would be quite surprised if he doesn't try to change things. And I think that change is coming this weekend. I think he'll play Rai Subemendy and Marino against Leeds. And in my mind, Eza could comfortably come in and play on the left.

1:03:34Those are changes I would like to see. just to give the team something different. It doesn't mean that everyone needs to be out of the team for the next month. It doesn't mean that they're out of the manager's reckoning forever. You can just change things for one occasion and see if that does anything different. If it doesn't, then we've got another issue. Then we have to rejig things again. But I just feel at this moment in time, Odegaard is playing a lot and he's not having the impact on the team that we need. Leeds are a very physical team. With Anton Stak in midfield, They've got Ethan Ampadu in there, Tanaka.

1:04:07We need the bodies in there. And I think when you've already been thrown to the floor three times by Elliot Anderson away at Nottingham Forest, I don't really rate your prospects much higher against those three. So that's my midfield three for the weekend. And I think I would be quite happy to see it, to be honest, because I just think we need something different. And also Mourinho's scoring. He looks dangerous. you know so um change is not bad yeah i think people have a lot of issue with this change does not so necessarily mean a bad thing and and also criticism is not like this person's shit it's not dismissal no it's not yeah yeah you know what if you play for the biggest clubs in the world and you are a prominent player on a big wage at a big club in the world you should be open to critiques of performances you should welcome it right i mean in our job like i do a podcast Who cares?

1:05:04There are comments. Some of the comments are critical. And I don't mean critical. Like this is the funny thing, right? Differentiating the comments where people are like, you're a see you next Tuesday. Okay, well, yeah, that's true. But I'm not talking about those comments where people say, I think you got this wrong. And here's why you have to take that on board, right? If you are going to put your opinion out there, if you're going to present what you think, people are entitled to come back to you and show you where I got it wrong. So different in football, so different in any job where you have a performance review.

1:05:28So here's our captain. Here's one of our highest paid players. Here's a big prominent player in the world game who at one point I think was as good as any midfielder in the league, who at this point, his performances are, I think, short of what we need in the certain areas of the pitch where we are particularly in need of a shot in the arm. So yeah, I think it's a good chat. And like some of it's about partnerships and some of it's about individuals. I do think that sometimes the discussion of, oh, it's partnerships. It's actually he's redundant with this player. It's partnerships. I think can be an excuse for not just looking at the level of performance.

1:06:03So I'm going to put my cards on the table. I don't think it's a partnership issue. I've danced around that. I've talked about it. Well, it might be redundancy because now Zuby can progress the ball or Rice can. I just think post-injury, I've seen a player who's not playing at the tempo and with the incision and with the end product that we know had been in his game previously. I'm not writing it off. I just don't think it's there. I think he's very comfortable drifting outside the block instead of staying inside the block. But to be clear, I've seen him have very important performances. I've seen him score a beautiful goal against Brighton.

1:06:34I think this player will be a critical part of our run to winning things this season. But what that role is, I think is going to have to evolve a little bit. So let's see. Now to your point, if the midfield fill is Zuby, Rice, and Marino, then you've got Ezza out of the team again. And I think you still potentially run the risk of that between the lines creativity issue propping back up. because if you want goals, you have to have the players that can create those goals. You're putting a lot of pressure on Marino and Rice to do that. And yeah, I don't know if that's their primary skill. Let's finish the Champions League discussion.

1:07:10Well, real quick, I don't think there's anything to say on Ibrahim or Brando Belli-Joseph, do you? I mean, there wasn't much opportunity for them to shine other than to just congratulate them. Yeah, yeah. Really good night for both of them. And I think it's important that we do this. And also just to mention Kyra as well. I think it's worth saying fair play to them because those players and the traveling fans look like kids on Christmas when that Champions League music started you know and that could be once in a lifetime stuff for them and even though we're being consumed by stress and nerves and you know doubts about every minute of every game that we're playing in the league football is a really special sport sometimes um and scoring twice at Emirates Stadium would have been like beyond anything they could have dreamed of so fair play to them a really nice night for them and to score twice at this stadium against this opposition you know yeah that's a really good night it's against our rooting interest but to your point about football being special a goalkeeper scoring a late extra goal against Real Madrid to get you into the playoffs of the Champions League instead of being eliminated now unfortunately at the expense of Marseille and that That means Ethan's Champions League adventure is over.

1:08:21But, I mean, it was so interesting. If you didn't watch that game, by the way, Madrid went down to nine men. Benfica were winning. I don't think they knew they needed another goal to be through. It didn't look like they knew. At one point, the ball was played back to their keeper, and he did the thing where he plays it off his chest and keeps it at his feet and waits and waits and waits. And the crowd's screaming at him, because presumably they've checked their phones and seen what the scenario was. They figured it out when there was a late foul at 90 plus five of five minutes added. The keeper goes up on the free kick.

1:08:49The keeper scores from the free kick, and that goal sends them through and knocks Marseille out. So just an extraordinary moment. I do have to say, even though we're critical of UEFA and we're critical of the tinkering with the game, the league table phase of the Champions League has produced an amount of drama that the group stage hasn't always mustered. This was a really interesting final day of positions shifting around. I guess I should ask you, since we didn't really analyze it, any thoughts on on their last goal to make it 3-2 I think it's just we're in the last 30 seconds very sloppy um stuff we didn't win a couple of the bounces and the jewels in midfield in Capier gets sucked under the ball a little bit which I don't think is unusual it's happened a couple of times already this year and I think you're maybe seeing his lack of natural ability as the center back shine through in those moments.

1:09:44But again, I'm not too bothered about it. I think people just need to switch on a little bit more and maybe in that moment, in that point of the game, they were just not switched on. So yeah, it doesn't look great for him though. Yeah, I wasn't sure if he's supposed to be going to the near post there and Miles should be tracking the runner that's coming back to the back post. I wasn't really sure people were split on that. It's just a bad goal. It'll annoy Mikel. And like I said, for a team that just, needed to feel its dominance a little bit. I think losing the second half 1-0 to Kyron Almaty is not exactly what you wanted.

1:10:17But look, it was a fun game for a half, and then it wasn't. And at halftime, I was thinking, this is fun, I'm enjoying it. Okay, the goal we gave away is done, but this is really fun. Second half annoyed me. If you were listening to this, and you think I'm taking it too seriously, I probably am. It just annoyed me. I felt annoyed by it. I was having fun, and then I wasn't. You know? And it's like in a season where it's not going to be fun because it's going to be so tense. This was one of those games I was like, oh, this is going to be fun. In the first half, I was like, it is fun. Three XG, all these shots, three goals.

1:10:48This is great. Let's have another three or four in the second half. And to score no goals, create very few chances and lose it 1-0. It was just annoying. It doesn't matter, but it was annoying. In terms of our opposition and who we can face in the, not in the playoffs because we're not in them, thankfully, but in the round of 16, it's very straightforward. Dortmund, Leverkusen, Atalanta, Olympiacos. Quickly, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Atalanta, Olympiacos. Your thoughts on if you have a preference among them. I mean, obviously the draw isn't happening until Friday. We're talking on Thursday, but it's not a bad selection.

1:11:26I have to be honest. Obviously, in terms of names, you look at Borussia Dortmund. On paper, that will be the toughest one of all four sides because they've got the European pedigree. They've got the most intimidating away ground. and Niko Kovac has done a decent job since coming in. They're still eight points behind Bayern in the league, but they have a big bozo gene, Borussia Dortmund, and that seems to have settled slightly under him, although they have struggled in big games in Europe this season. They've lost to City, Spurs and Inter. So you'd still feel good about any of them, Olympiagos.

1:11:59I mean, I don't know why we're bothering talking about the other teams because it's the law of the universe. The Arsenal must play Olympiagos whenever and wherever possible. They actually did well to finish in the top 24 because they didn't win any of their first five. So they had to rescue it with winning each of their last three against Kairat, Bayer, Leverkusen and Ajax. Again, difficult away day. Piraeus, sort of hostile stadium, but I think we should be fine. Atalanta, it's hard to know what to make of them because for the first time in nine years, Gian Piero Gasparini is not their manager and he kind of worked wonders there.

1:12:35Took them from relegation candidates to Europa League winners. They got very far in the Champions League as well, playing some amazing football along the way. I mean, they've still got good players like Scamacca, Scalvini, Adamoela-Lukman's there, Charles De Quetelara's there, but they're not as exciting as they have been in recent years and they've been a bit stinky in the league. So I'll be fine with them. Bayer Leverkusen, again, a good team. Nobody we should be super worried about not beating. They've got Kasper Hulman as their manager. after they sort of had, they read through Ten Hag. Everyone clocked onto him being a fraud after five minutes and decided they didn't want to play under him anymore.

1:13:15Some interesting young players, again, Christian Cofani, Ernest Poku, but on top of all the usual guys, we know like Patrick Schick, Grimaldo. But again, I look at all of those four and think, perfect. Home and away, we should be absolutely fine against all of those four teams. where it gets interesting is after that because i'm making peace with playing an english team or two um already and i i hate doing that in europe i don't know why it just feels it just feels worse but yeah regardless of who we get in the quarterfinal semis and final if we get there i i think we should be fine to at least get through one more round without eternal disappointment, basically.

1:14:00So, yeah. Inter, Madrid, or City is what it looks like in the round of 16. And I just, it's not that I don't think we can beat any of those teams. Let's be clear, you want to win the Champions League. You can't just script for yourself the perfect, easy path through. But Inter, Madrid, or City in the quarterfinal, like, let's just be clear, I don't want to play City. I'm with you, like, I don't want to play Premier League teams if I don't have to. And if I have to, well this is where it's tough if you told me I have to play a Premier League team at some point I'd rather do it earlier than later you know what I mean I'd rather not do it in a final but some of my worst memories in the Champions League are playing Premier League teams and so yeah I don't want City I think Madrid are beatable obviously especially now I think I think Inter probably are the weakest of the group You could convince me Madrid are, but I still think just from a pedigree standpoint, from an away ground standpoint, in terms of the elite talent they have in attack, they could be bad and Kylian Mbappe could score a hat trick and knock you out, Vinicius Jr.

1:15:10So I think I'd rate that inter-Madrid city in that order. I don't have much of a concern about the round before that. If we can't beat Dortmund, Bayer, Leverkusen, Olympiacos, or Atalanta, then we're not going to win the Champions League. And that's just how that works. So fine by me. The annoying thing is had Madrid beat Benfica, Manchester City would be in a playoff. But now they're not. Now, if we need Manchester City to beat a playoff to win the Premier League, shame on us also. But you'll take every little bit you can get. So that's how that sets up. Last quick thought, it leads the weekend.

1:15:47We beat them very comfortably at the Emirates, but they're in a decent run of form at home. I think it's 10 games they haven't lost at home. So it's not the layup you'd expect. But again, this thing we do where we say, oh, but this is a hard game, but that's a hard game. Well, football's a hard game. But if you want to be the Premier League champion, you have to win at Leeds. I'm sorry, you have to go to Allen Road and win. That's just kind of the mission. Obviously, we need to do that. And Mikel Arteta will be looking at a list of very talented players, and I'm not sure he'll be certain of which ones to pick.

1:16:15So very quickly, your concise thoughts on the Leeds game. it's going to be a difficult one you're you're absolutely right their fortunes have changed they've only lost one of their last 10 they've won three of their last five at home as well including a 3-1 win against Chelsea they drew against Liverpool they drew against United so this is a team who have found some mojo and some form and some rhythm after a really difficult start to the season I thought Daniel Farker was kind of a shoo-in to get fired at one point as well so we we need our wits about us and I think I'm leaning towards a more physical midfield I said it earlier I just think we could do with Mourinho being in there as well for a bit of extra muscle and then rely on the creativity from the wide areas for example Asaka and as a trossard I don't think it's the game for Martinelli to to start but we need to be switched on I think it's there's a lot of pressure on us this weekend like i know we're trying not to think about it but three games without a win the late defeat to united city sort of have us in their sights again potentially villa as well they'll be waiting for any sign of weakness um and i think the defeat against united was a sign of weakness even though they beat city as well so the whole narrative around arsenal is that they can't get over the line they're bottling these leagues three second place finishes in a row and even though we can apply context to it other people don't want to and they don't have to you know ultimately that one bit of narrative is is surrounding us at the moment and we need to be the ones to convince people that that is not true and there are people slowly starting to feel that way so we need to convince ourselves that it's not true you know so I just think I'm going to be a nervous wreck until we play however it's a 3 p.m game so it won't be on tv I think that that is a very minuscule thing but it might help the whole country won't be watching maybe we'll feel a bit a bit more relaxed in that situation but I would just love to see us go there with a bit more attacking intention not be not be so afraid to make some mistakes or lose the ball occasionally we need to find ways to give this team a kick up the ass um and i think leads will want to make this a fight they'll want to make this a battle so we need to maximize the opportunities that we get so no no open goal misses at the back post no obvious ones in front of goal that we that we take too long for and don't get the shot away we need to be sharp we need to be clinical and we need the ball in the back of the net so that's what i'm hoping for that's what i'm looking for um but more than anything we need to win.

1:19:03So that's all I'll be hoping for mainly at the end of the day. Yeah, we got to stop with this thing we do where we say every game is hard and try to manage expectations. Like you're trying to win the Premier League, there are going to be expectations. We got to lean into that. I get that softening the expectations makes it less nervy, but it's not realistic. You got to go win these games if you want to be the best team in the league. Just quickly, if you're wondering if Havertz will play, here's what Mikel had to say on whether he's ready for the Premier League. He's fine. That's what we planned.

1:19:3245 minutes. We wanted to start him as well so he could do all the processes before that in the best possible way. And from now on, we have to make a decision whether he starts or not in these competitions. And whether he's knocking on the door for Leeds, for sure. He wanted to continue playing today so I know what is coming tomorrow. I think with these kind of situations, the biggest thing is how his body responds. If there's inflammation, if there's swelling, if there's pain, he won't play. If he feels good, I think Mikel's going to be tempted to get him out there for Leeds as a shot in the arm.

1:19:58So we'll just have to see. Whoever is out there, here's what I do believe. and I don't care if it's Odegaard or not, or if it's Kai or if it's Jokers, the 11 Arsenal players that will be out there are good enough to win that game. And if they play to their level, they should win that game. And I expect that they will win that game on track to what we know is a historic quad-winning season. So we'll leave it there. Friday night, Clive tomorrow, we'll handle Mikel's presser and the draw. So we'll know who we're playing in the Champions League. We can touch on that a little bit. There'll be an instant reaction coming up.

1:20:28As I said, we're going to do monthly Academy Pods with Will Balsam, which I'm really excited about doing, and we've got some other fun stuff. If you want to see us in Dallas, it's the 22nd of February. AVP in Dallas is the code to use with Cosm to get free general admission or$11 off an order. We will give you information on how to win the two tickets to join us in the booth under the dome to watch the big derby game at the end of February, but I hope to see you there, and I'm just glad to be going somewhere warm. Phil, thank you. Nice one. I love how we said this was going to be a quick one, and we're here, one hour, 15 minutes in.

1:20:58quick hour 15 light change it's not an hour 40 is it yeah hey you'll also see the Rob Holding interview coming out make sure to listen to it it's fantastic enough nonsense from me I feel that I put in the minutes today this is like when you rotate the squad and you have to lean on certain players like Christian Norgard who we didn't discuss today excellent in this game in fact had a really clever backheel for for a chance I liked what I saw yesterday from Norgigno I thought he was good I didn't appreciate your slander in the IR just so we're clear the IR is its own thing it lives in its own world it's apart from reality I may have made some jokey comments but I was impressed by Norgaard and I thought he was good and I liked his performance and I'm glad that he's here okay now it's an hour 17 enough my name is Elliot Smith we love you and we will talk after our show 10 leads now

1:22:10Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McArdle, and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic, and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward. It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together, to solve problems where they are. You know, I am a believer in America, and it's worth fighting for. Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.