Vini Jr To Arsenal?

33:32He has faced racist abuse in football that should not be tolerated, that is quite disgusting and pervasive in his career. And the very same people that have abused him racially or when he suffered racist abuse have then critiqued him, as Jose Mourinho did, for being a baby about it and making too big a deal about it. That is obviously unacceptable. acceptable so Tao I guess are you do you believe that there are any valid non-racially motivated but valid concerns about potential disruption in the dressing room bringing in a player that size that ego that wage whatever that is or do you think it is entirely exclusively tied to those issues because I I think there are there are potential questions of bringing a superstar in on that kind of wage with that kind of entourage and following but it's all tied up in these naughty issues of of the racist abuses face so are you able to sort of disaggregate those things and think about them separately or are they intimately tied together that was a lot sorry i'm gonna i'm gonna pick out a few things that came into my mind when you were saying please the from the people get annoyed with Vinnie Jr.

34:49because he dances because he mocks because he does all that kind of thing it then gets it then gets bundled up into and some of those concerns may or may not be not concerns some of those grievances grievances may be valid right there is of course it does all get caught up in especially in Spain it gets caught up or how Spain thinks of him it's caught up in a really really murky pit of racism. I think one of the reasons why we trade carefully with this stuff is because without getting too political about it, racism is very kind of easily deniable and to deal with doublespeak. If you say that the attitude towards this is racist and someone will go, what do you mean?

35:31I just think he's annoying. A lot of the things that you were saying, and this is part of my answer about whether he fits into our dressing room or not. A lot of the things that you were saying is what is a Jude Bellingham came to mind with a lot of that conversation just then right because Jude Bellingham is big is bold is brash is this is that this is a guy who is a superstar and knows he's a superstar he came out of the World Cup acting like a superstar because guess what he went into the World Cup thinking he was a superstar and it's a very un-English way of looking at things to have somebody like Jude Bellingham just standing there and figuratively literally saying and what right this is and what i am this good so i think there's my maybe in the way that um england and its journey with jude bellingham and i won't mention you said copium i could talk about hopium here but we'll we'll leave him for a minute he gets too much press that journalist the attitude around jude bellingham is it's almost like we need to come come with us these are these These are young superstars who have stopped pretending that they're not young superstars.

36:42And the other thing I would say on this is that their dressing rooms love them. I think that if you ask Declan Rice and Bukayo Saka, and we've all seen that clip of Jude Bellingham going to get, getting Declan Rice's shirt for Vinny. Vinny. Yeah, Vinny asked Jude to go get him Declan Rice's shirt. If you ask the superstars in our dressing room whether they want one of the world's greatest left wingers operating at the moment in their team, they're going to turn around and say hell to the yeah. Pakaio just watched one extra defender walk over to the other side. He loves it. There you go. Double threat.

37:19So I do think that a lot of the, I mean, without revealing any kind of confidences, there's people that I speak to, you know, when the words bad attitude and so on spring up, we message each other straight away. And it's like, here we go again, hey? Reminds me of Miles Lewis Skelly, right? He had the same exact thing. You just, there's a highly racialized word in our culture. I don't know if it's over there as well, but uppity, right? It's that idea that know your place, stay, you know, I'm not accusing Erland Hanna, but that expectation of humility for some that is not expected of others. Sorry, carry on.

38:02Yeah. And I really do think that those arguments have come into the conversation about Vinny Jr. Is he an enormous superstar? Yeah. But you know what? we have now as champions of england and almost champions of europe we have some of the best players in the world playing in our club we've got william saliba and we've got bakaya saka and we've got decon rice and and and more to who do you want and we got martin odegaard let's not challenge you know um from from a world perspective um let's allow that really so i'm not i'm not bothered about that i don't think he's coming into a dressing room where i mean mezzo ozil came into a dressing room where he stuck out as this enormous star over damn it came into a dressing room where he stood out from everyone else yeah tells you where we were junior should it happen sorry it tells you where we were at that time well yeah no it does tell you where you are that's exactly the point and is vinnie junior coming into a dressing room where um maybe on a global scale with his numbers and so forth.

39:07But from a game-recognizing game point of view, he's going to walk in and he'll fit in. Yeah, yeah. I think that's right. And I think a lot of the things you said were very thoughtfully considered and well-articulated. So I don't want to come over the top on a subject that I think everybody kind of understands where this comes from. I also want to acknowledge that you can have concerns about the fit in the dressing room that are based purely on personality dynamics that aren't nefarious. And I think that is a question I'd like to throw to you, Clyde, before we then just turn strictly to the football part of it, which is simply we have seen Galactico projects fail.

39:47We have seen Real Madrid players punching each other in the face. We haven't seen it, but we've seen the aftermath of it. We've seen it not work at PSG until they changed the dynamic and had more of a collective. We've seen it not work at Real Madrid. We've seen it not work at other places. So I don't think it is unacceptable to have concerns about the dynamic in the dressing room and what happens when you bring in a level of the star. I've always been a person who thinks the best managers have to be able to integrate the biggest stars if you want to be the biggest club. But I could be wrong on that.

40:14And there's counter arguments. So do you have a thought on just squad dynamics and the impact of a wage-busting star arriving in the dressing room to a team that is, you know, I think very together and very tight-knit?

40:29Elliot:yeah so we should make the assumption that he wouldn't be tight-knit within our dressing room as well i agree with tyre 1000 that the players will be texting him all day long to say come over here talking to his age they'll be doing everything they can because they have short careers they want to turn a new page that whole tone you page thing is in my head how do you make these players feel different how did the club make them feel like we're we're going again and we really are serious about developing something special here. I just, when we were all in a parade looking around and you're seeing in your iPads what's happening around the world, I really tried really hard to hold on to that feeling, to remember it.

41:14Elliot:Because that's a line in the sand. You know, when you get a million people turn out 24 hours after losing a big final, that's a line in the sand to say, come on, we have to look at what's happening here. We have to look. and we have to develop. And this feels like a really smart step. This may be probably been in the works for a long time, you know, and as a potential, and the potential has grown. And it could stop. It could stop in a tweet, right? And if it does, it doesn't change how I feel because that now is telling me what the right thing is. I don't worry about gesturing dynamics. There's ways to concoct a deal to make sure that someone feels inclusive around the wages etc while knowing that person gets more money than you and that happens in life happens in work and there's extra accountability responsibility that person to deliver and and that's what they have to do he's had that his whole life so i'm not worried about that players understand um deconmiser deals being negotiated right now so i'm sure he's having a look at that but even he would accept that maybe this guy has done a bit more than me so far in his career and And you have to defer, right?

42:22And when it comes down to it,

42:24Elliot:I'm just so pleased that we're thinking strategically this way and we want to expand the club to the level that I think it actually is. Many of us have felt that we were a sleeping giant waiting to explode, but not even I saw what was coming. I didn't see what was coming. I just could not imagine it because I still struggle with it. But once you see it, do not revert back. You know, think forward. You know, push that pedal down. Think forward about what you can be. I'm loving the thinking. I'm loving and joined up thinking. I try not to see the negatives around it. When you're that big a star, the light is shining on you.

43:00Elliot:When you shout at a referee, it's going to be the story for the next two days. And people extrapolate that into bad attitude. When you smile at fans and dance in front of fans, you're someone with a bad attitude. Come on, we know the rules. We know what's happening here. We're smarter than this. We don't need to spend any more time talking about it. It's just the nature of the world that we live in. what I care about is someone like this getting into our football club this is for everybody for the Premier League my goodness they should be helping us well gonna because for the Premier League this is the biggest right so yeah I'm excited while I've got Tyo's words going through my head he'll probably end up staying I'm still excited you're on a roll but you know what can I just jump in there on top of that Clive and just say he might end up staying But I think something that you said and something that you said before earlier is that we should be thinking in this.

43:52We should be we should begin to think like this now. And if he does end up staying then and someone wants to say you thought you're going to sign Vinny Junior, then we should stand up and go. Yeah. Yeah, we did. Yeah, I did. because we've just come off the world cup with we us two of us here as england fans watching us put on um an arsenal style like putting on a handbrake but almost like a handbrake to our thinking and that's another reason why i mentioned jude bellingham earlier because jude bellingham is breaking out of that thinking as an england player and saying no like i'm we're big in this You know, we've got Erling Haarland aside, we've got the best striker in Europe who's English.

44:38Like we didn't think like that during it. And then at a critical moment, we didn't play like that. We've also watched ourselves in Arsenal situations, either in game time or just in the projection of the club, not think of ourselves in this. And because a million people came out to see us a day after we lost, because we almost had this perfect season, because we've just been on an upward trajectory since 2022 on the pitch and commercially off the pitch, we should start thinking and playing and going for these players. We've watched lesser clubs than ours, lesser clubs in the same city as us, spending mad money on players and it going into a mess of a basket case of a club.

45:26Why can't a brilliantly run club with great players at the right point in their careers think like this as well? Yeah, well said. and look there is one big risk to this which is if you don't get it done now which is always a possibility with a deal you can genuinely authentically try to get this done right you're trying you're talking to the club, you're talking to the player, you're trying to get it done but a deal of this magnitude may not get done they're not easy to do as we just said it would be the biggest move into the Premier League in history so it's obviously not going to be easy if you don't get it done whatever you do will feel disappointing to some if we get Bruno Guimaraes and Julian Alvarez some will say we blew it we could have been so the downside to going for a player like this is you march us right up to the mountaintop of what we could have anything we get other than this may not feel like we've summited so i i understand that risk but it's a risk certainly worth taking i want to talk about the football implications a bit about bruno guimoresh as well um feels like i should tell you about brands so if i don't you know you honestly everything we've just talked about in one ear and out the other as you frantically search for the right brands to of your business.

46:34So let's do that. And the one I want to tell you about is Saley. Saley is an eSIM. And this is technology working the way it should always have worked. Like, it's so funny, right? Because I remember traveling to Europe, going to London, and you'd pop out a little piece of your expensive phone to take out a little chip out of your expensive phone to try to keep all those pieces and that little screwdriver thingy that pops the piece out. And then you'd go to some, I don't know, like shady shack outside a train station and buy some chip that you put into this expensive phone where you have all your financial information, everything, and hope it all works right just so that you can make phone calls and use data.

47:07How's it work now? You just get an app and you can use your phone around the world for less. Like that's how it always should have worked. Nothing to pop into your phone, pop out of your phone, keep track of, lose, buy a new phone, have your phone rooted and stolen by nefarious operators. Salee is an eSIM. You put the app on your phone. It's from the people at NordVPN. So it has all the threat protection background. They have ad blockers. So you're not consuming the data plan with ads, which is great because ads can chew up your data plan. You didn't know that, did you? Well, now you do. And you're going to be able to use your phone around the world for less.

47:36You just put the app on. You say, here's what I want. And then you use your phone there. So you go to Saley, you get the app, use code Arsenal Vision, and you will save 15 % off your plan. Now I ran the math. That is 15 % less. That's how much 15 % off is. So go to Saley, get the app. Arsenal Vision is the code. Saley, your eSIM, get the app. Use code Arsenal Vision, save 15%. Is that enough of that?

47:59Elliot:Indeed. Yeah, Clive from a footballing standpoint how do you see Arsenal deploying Vinny Jr.? I think we should pay him right back basically Yeah, well that's part of it, isn't it? You don't need to even think about it from a football standpoint It's not like with Rodgers where you go, can he play left? Could he be inside left? You just stick him out there on the left and let him do his thing Is he up for a battle with Christos Solis for that position though? Yeah This is sometimes when because I really like Morgan Rodgers you know really did but i was manipulating them in my mind i was having overlapping fullbacks i was doing things to make it work um my preference is like having these the left side in and you know one of my lines there you split the you split the pitch in half a line down the middle you have two circles right and a line going down a little bit you have your exterior of a team and you have your interior of a team and arsenal create and build from the right hand side and we finish primarily from the left you know not not all the time but that's how i see the vision of the team and when you have odegaard and saka and saliba pushing the ball on that right hand side guess what you're going to create on that side you're going to build on that side more more often than not but i always see that left side a player as a striker as a as a winger striker hence my feeling for a rashford not saying we should buy rashford but he's a center forward that almost plays wide he's a finisher that plays wide he's a scorer at heart that does the wide job as a secondary role And so when you see Vinnie Junior come up, you think, oh, that's the perfect one.

49:29Elliot:He can dribble, he can carry, he can finish, he can finish explosively up both feet, he can run from the halfway line, but in tight spaces, he can kill you as well. So football-wise, mate, we're going to do a scouting video, but we just could be sitting there smiling, looking at it. We don't need to speak. It's the perfect fit. But it'd be a perfect fit for PSG as well. But they've already got the other guy that's quite good. you know and um man see i've got docu is like a a younger version of you know he's finding the last action right now they're gonna re-signing him up and so i keep looking around and thinking we are a good place for him to go if he um wants to go yeah tell he does the left wing things better than the guys that we have doing the left wing thing the fast the fast guy who gets on the end of the build-up play on the right i mean like just point blank is he as good as the size of his reputation like is he the best left wide attacking player you know i was literally about to say that I came into this, I've been watching Vinny Jr.

50:49for ages, of course, we all have. Interesting, by the way, that Diomale is the same age, roughly, as when they signed Vinny Jr., which I think is quite interesting. But, you know, Vinny Jr., a little bit like, maybe I'm a little bit too old to be obsessed with Neymar, who's obviously, I've come in with that kind of attitude. and then the world cup that sort of happened and i was he's just like oh all right this guy it so to answer your question yeah he is yeah he's bloody brilliant and he's strong on the ball and he's quick and he's got end product and there's no like it i mean your scouting video numbers aren't going to go up with that level of analysis and i will leave it i'll leave that to the grown-ups like i could go on about it but i don't want to sound i don't want to try and pretend to sound like uh like yourselves doing it so to answer your question um in a much more succinct way yeah he's the real deal and he fits the profile that we've been sitting here begging for on that side right a more direct finisher of the work that starts on the other side who are the fullbacks behind him what is the midfield behind him again i'll leave that to the grown-ups to to work out but he fits the bill in the same way that Barclay would fit the bill in the same way that and it will feel like a a massive step down I could have said I would never have been mad I wouldn't before this I wouldn't have been mad if we'd ended up with Rashford at some point that's me personally but now it would just seem like a different conversation but he does the same you know he does the same thing but not as well as the guy from Real Madrid who we're trying to sign yep i'll give you just a little bit of data here as well for for areas that you might have a concern about off the ball is the thing you hear oh will he press will he not press and i think some of that is the dynamic at real madrid are you ready to fight for the manager are you prepared to do the work or are you not you know i think vinnie jr's season that he just had was quite a disrupted one obviously the manager came and went um the dynamic there is not ideal but billy carpenter posted uh this data and i thought it was sort of interesting the data came from gradient He lined up Saka, Martinelli, Trussard, Medueke, and Vinicius across a number of defensive metrics.

53:14Vinny lined up pretty well with all of them. In fact, he was top in final third pressures per 90 of all of them and top in tackles one percentage per 90 of all of them. You know, it's not perfect. Trussard, by the way, led in the most categories of any of them. Martinelli didn't lead in any of them. And we sometimes say Martinelli's work rate is what is dominant about him. Well, actually, in any of those, from a data standpoint, he was not top in any of those categories. Another interesting thing that he shared, and this is from Opta Analyst, since his first season at Real Madrid, only Kylian Mbappe has been involved in more shots following a carry or goals following a carry than Vinny.

53:54in the UEFA Champions League no one ranks above Vinny in other words when he carries the ball more shots and goals happen in the Champions League than any other player over the last five seasons and only killing Mbappe as more in La Liga that's what we need someone whose individual contribution leads to goal and product in fact it's the theory of the case with Nani the problem with Nani is he makes that great carry and it doesn't often enough lead to a shot or a goal with Vinny it does and so Clive like that to me that data point is actually the round peg in the round hole of what we need. A player who, when there's a low block, when there's something happening, can do something individually that leads to a chance or a goal.

54:33And he does it as well as anybody else. And we got a guy on the right who does it as well as anybody else. And if you can put those guys on the pitch together, you're very hard to cover. Do you have any thoughts on the out of possession side of the game, though? The part that I just referenced. Because that is, I believe, absolutely critical to our identity as well. so we don't want to just hand wave it.

54:53Elliot:Yeah, he doesn't hand wave it, but I remember when Eze came, he didn't make a tackle at Palace for three years. As soon as he came to Arsenal, his out of possession stuff was improved to the point where the England manager trusted him to take a deeper role in the World Cup. So I think anyone who comes here has got to do that job. I don't worry about that at all, actually. I just worry about our identity. So what are we known for? We're known as the best out of possession team in the world. That's for who we are. in possession we get questioned are we flary enough i think the manager has spoken about psg i said this earlier let's apologize for repeating myself i spoke about psg and spoke about how they use individual actions to get out of pressure and i think he's something he wants to add to the group players with smart decisions and smart individual actions but i can't think of many more individualists than him and how we turn our out possession skill to win the ball and transition into execution and shots, I don't think we're that good at that.

55:53Elliot:I come away with regrets. I really love how we play, but when we turn over, I think we can be lack a bit of intelligence on the first two, three passes to really get into those areas and execute. So somebody on the transition, he's brilliant. If you're winning the ball and he's getting your first pass, there are lots of clips out there talking about his trossard type passes around the corner, outside of the foot, in behind to runners he's not just a runner shooter both feet he can pass it as well i honestly mate don't even waste your breath think about does he fit football wise i think he's going to be the commercial fear it's going to be the emotional fit in the dressing room so i think the players will just absorb him will he sit so far above everybody wages wide because that could potentially impact the dynamics but again you construct your deals to make sure that's not the case and maybe he earned some of that commercially which is his right when you got that many people following you around the world that's the little worries i have i don't worry about any other teams if it happens it happened i'm just glad we're having a shot to make do i mean yeah i mean for me it's vinnie and kvart's kelia probably the two best in that position in the world kvart's kelia is six months younger but you know they're different players they're both excellent but i i just think in terms of what we need if you can do this deal both commercially and from a sporting standpoint it works and it's very rare that those two things line up as well as this one lines up in terms of plays a position you need brings the qualities you need it fits the brand fits the you know i mean it's just everything you could possibly want so if we get it done great if we don't great um no let me rephrase that if we don't shit if we do great because then And then the question becomes, obviously, if you can't get it done, you're currently looking at Martinelli and Christos Solis as our left side.

57:45That is not going to get it done. And suddenly, you've got to find a solution for that position. I don't currently know what that solution looks like. Bradley Barkley feels like he's edging closer to Liverpool based on reporting, but who knows if that would happen. And by the way, the other clubs aren't screwing around. $117 million from Morgan Rodgers to Chelsea. $116 million Elliot Anderson to City. if Bradley Barkler goes to Liverpool that's 120 million 110 million, it's going to be in that range maybe more, these clubs are not screwing around, they are not standing still now I do expect there will be more business than just the attacker though and the one that feels like it could happen most closely is Bruno Guimaraes and so, Taylor, this one is it's not Vinny Jr.

58:33it's not fist pumping in, it's perfect it's 100%, this is a guy who's going to be 29 this season We're going to be paying a lot of money for him. Is he still at the most elite level of his career? And will he be through the next few seasons? My opinion is, ready-made superstar for us for a couple of seasons. Go get him. And it makes your midfield so much more dynamic in terms of what you want to do. But I'm curious if you have more hesitation on this one because this is one that feels like it has a good chance to get done. I mean, the worst bit about this is just having to go through years of text messages and probably social media posts about and now reversing fully about what a thug I've called in before.

59:16The absolute abuse that I've thrown at. The fact that he never wanted us in the first, like he went there over us in the first place. So you know what, sod him. So there is no trail. I think I've eaten all the crumbs and I don't think you can find any proof that I've ever said anything negative about Bruno Guimari. With that said, he's a really, really good player who would absolutely improve us 100%. The age thing, sometimes as armchair managers, I think we worry about a little bit more than we should do. There is an entire podcast, and you've done it many times, about how bad we are at selling.

1:00:02but you know what for today for now for the season coming up and for the one after Brunner Gemmares makes us a better team we're going to start the season probably without Declan Rice it feels really important to have somebody of that level of that quality who will come in and I can see already how much he'll how we'll improve the side we all can You mentioned Clive about how we're all twisting ourselves into pretzels a little bit about Morgan Rodgers where, for example, the love for the player came first and then it's like, all right, cool, where can we do that? Bruno Gomes fits in the Arsenal team.

1:00:44It would be a wonderful buy for the club. And I look forward to somebody, many of my non-Arsenal friends throwing accusations at me for my hypocrisy. and I invite it and I will drink it out of the Premier League trophy hopefully again

1:01:05Elliot:Clive? Yeah there are games and there are games in the league season and this time early last year the Forest and the Leeds game in the sunshine were just wonderful and Ethan was strolling through midfield playing passes and Max Dalman coming on in league games you're thinking oh this is lovely and then And as you go through the season, it starts to change. As the prizes get closer and you start to think that all games are like that. And they're not, right? And so in my mind, all I think about when I'm thinking about Arsenal transfer is when we're in the Champions League semi-final next season and the camera flashes across all our players, I want to look at them and think the other team are shit scared of them.

1:01:54Elliot:Do you know what I mean? they're thinking yeah this is what it's here this way is now this is it this is a proper team right not a team that's been built by the manager and systemically we're very very good but those individuals that make people think crikey they got that midfield they got that forward line i've got to do something about that but not every game is like that but that's the highest level psg is the highest level of football in the world and we were in that game right and we were well in it we maybe saw the scoreboard a bit and maybe reverted too soon which we hadn't scored so early but let's not go over that game again right but we were in that game competing and that's the that's it that's the next page when that camera goes across and champions music is showing are you better than you were last year and whether i am i'm a 60 40 50 50 on bruno but i know he answers that question he army field would be better for him being in it that's a definite you know and um so yeah i accept it it's gonna happen hopefully it's not too much money so i don't go wince it's not your money clive okay someone's shouting but just fine i do care about that sort of thing um don't want to be robbed but if that i said that's another step to getting the other bloke on the left wing it makes a lot of sense doesn't it so yeah I'm I'm for it I am for it I mean if you told me there'd be a time when we'd be negotiating for soon to be 29 year old players with two years left and and players with one year left and we'd be looking at fees of 80 million and 130 140 million I would have told you get out of here it's not smart squad building the reason I'm not saying that is we're not the club we were when I would say things like that what you have to do to rebuild a team from eighth place is very different from what you have to do to take a first place team to the biggest pedestal in all of world football and keep it there for a few years.

1:03:45We have a window right now to turn Arsenal into something closer to Real Madrid than what we were in the 2010s. But we have to execute. We're going to have to get a Champions League on our CV. We're going to have to somehow. And I realize you can have all the best players and have it not happen. It is a bit of a crapshoot because the biggest clubs are all in it. You have to keep winning trophies. You have to have some of the biggest players in world football at your team. If you can do those things, you can elevate your brain to that level. You know, when we were the Invincibles, we didn't win the Champions League.

1:04:14We probably could have been growing at the level of a Real Madrid or Barcelona at that time, but the exposure to the Premier League and the size of the Premier League was different. This is a new moment. This is the moment. And so you have to do these kinds of deals that you wouldn't otherwise. Plus, you got to keep your manager. You got to keep Mikel Arteta. So as a final point on the Bruno Guimaraes thing, someone said to me the other day, what do I think the perfect window is? The perfect window is Vinny Jr. and Bruno, and I think you're fine. You can nitpick around the edges. Do you have anxiety about Saliba's injury and needing to solidify the back line?

1:04:49I just feel like Kansa's a good player, but if you're going to go pay 40 or 50 million pounds for a guy, you need to functionally be a backup. And I realize Clive doesn't believe in the concept of backups. I get it. I know. You need to have a squad. it just it feels like too much of the resources going to the area that isn't the biggest area of need but i accept that our win rate without saliba is abysmal and we're going to be without him for five or six months so do you have thoughts on that as a as a priority even though nothing's going to anger arsenal fans like the ornstein bomb when we haven't signed vinnie yet we haven't signed bruno yet and he says arsenal agree fee with consa people go what are we doing but but to be fair it is probably an area that has to be addressed yes yeah but what's your first 11 No, not really.

1:05:30Sorry. It's Monday. You try to wind me up, son.

1:05:38I'm normally listening and chuckling, so I don't normally get the chance to say that. So please allow me that indulgence. I think I do have concerns. I like the conversation because of the fact that he's a good Premier League proven player. because he can go into the team tomorrow and because he can then in January go and be part of our right-wingy centre, I mean, our full-back centre-back hybrid that we do so well. I do think it's important that we do have Premier League quality or star quality players in the position of the players who are going to need that rest. I am concerned about it, but I'd be less concerned about it because of the work that we did last season with the squad.

1:06:36We've got some robust players in the squad. One thing that always happens in the transfer bomber land is that we don't allow for players to improve. Myles Lewis-Gelly played in his preferred position at the end of the season and we haven't said lands like a new signing for a long time, but that's a moment as well. So let's allow for some improvement. Let's hope for kind of better injury luck, which no one ever also considers when we're sitting there making our fantasy teams and playing fantasy manager. Who's going to get injured? Hope that doesn't happen. But I think that the players that we are going to miss at the start, or at least we should miss because they need a rest, need quality around them and not just reinforcements.

1:07:30And, you know, as Clive says, it is a squad that we're talking about. I thought we used the squad very well last year because the gap between most of the, who most of you and I, Elliot, would pick as first choices, the gap wasn't so big. Obviously, there's a conversation to be heard on the right wing there, which is a difficult one. But I am a little bit concerned in short, and I do think that, and I'd be a little bit concerned if there weren't some additions made, and I'd still be concerned if one of those additions was John Stones. So let that not happen. yeah i mean i i don't know how to approach this because like in my mind there's a part of me that's like get whatever cheap serviceable center back you can to play for five months and and then focus on vinnie and look fundamentally this is where i do think people start to get into the money question and the arguments can happen it's like you're gonna spend 130 million on vinnie you're gonna spend 80 million on bruno gemarish are you gonna still have 40 million for a third choice center back maybe and if you do great do it do it of course but what if you don't he's not a third choice center back i don't think he i don't i don't think he would be a third choice center back i think you know this has been saliba and gabriel played so much football last year so without saliba's back um being this like emergency we needed to have more games where we didn't have to play them and the quality didn't drop i agree but but tell you like in the premier league starting first choice caliber center backs average like 36 starts a season virgil van dyke averaged like 37 and a half starts a season saliba played every single game two seasons ago and almost every single game this season and you could say well that's part of the problem but that is traditionally what's done the center backs play almost all the games at least in the league they're fit for so to your point i mean maybe it is the case of well he'll play some Champions League group stage games and FA Cup games and League Cup games and the odd Premier League game here and there and oh by the way the guys just might not stay fit so like I'm not saying it's not a need the question is what's the total bucket of resources we have to put into transfers and how much of it do we want to devote to a center back who isn't one of the two first choice star guys you know what I mean I know what you're saying but I still disagree I haven't sold you on it, and I know I haven't sold Clive on it.

1:09:59So, Clive, tell me why T is right and I'm wrong. Hey, look. Again, when you're doing this. When it starts, hey, look, you know I'm about to get torn down.

1:10:09Elliot:People then say, oh, Clive, you've got to accept Elliot's position. Don't dismiss him. But what if he's wrong? It's not about dismissing him. It's just about looking at the game, right? So we just spent the first half of this podcast talking about potentially Vinny coming in. there's no point even coming in if you've got an injury in that position and we've suddenly got defenders that can't keep the ball out the net you've got to do the whole thing you know we're built on our defensive resilience and stability and you know i do like a concert but there are other players out there young players there are other fullbacks out there we have seven defenders now because miles is now a midfielder and of our right-footed defenders one has got a broken back One has got a broken knee, and one has had his groin done.

1:10:57Elliot:And the other one's a 21-year-old kid that didn't make the Spain squad. So if you are managing your risk, you buy a right-footed defender real quick. And that's what you do. Who? It doesn't really matter. I gave you names last week, right? There's a young South African defender that played in the World Cup that got a lot of shouts. There's a young player called Zina Di Bast, I mentioned last week, at Sporting Lisbon. right there's a sport in this right back in Ivan Fresnader maybe moves to Ben White inside he can play out there we were linked to Tina Livermento I think he's a bit of a broken one but and the money between injury history and very expensive shares an agent with Mikel Arteta who knows what's going on in the background right so that name's been linked to us by the by the biggest people in the game you find a solution but you need a right footed defender to manage the risk of that play just because when Thebes fit again he doesn't mean he's fit for for three games a week he just means he's fit again.

1:11:54Elliot:And sell him. In two months, that may be... Well, let's be honest. Our number seven and our franchise player at the moment, based on what recent history, can't play three times a week. Yeah. Right? Until he's rested. So what do you think Slee was going to do? You know, so you've got to manage who you are. Manage that end of the pitch to make sure you can layer on top of your identity. Okay. You know, so... But, But we can all agree there's some amount of spending that we're going to make. And it's finite. It's not infinite. So the question becomes... It is. But it's funny because we talked about that.

1:12:32Elliot:But we are prepared to go to the extremes that we've never gone before for an attacking player. But you've still got to manage the rest of what you do, right? And the reason why we can do that is because I know we talk a lot about commercial things, etc. We know that commercially we've already had deals that are coming forward. Dealer's tools coming forward. there are options afoot to make that deal work right so but you've got to make the whole thing work i don't want to see marley salmon playing center back in a game before his time but then you don't have to do that's a problem you also better buckle up and be ready to sell someone you have to be willing to say goodbye to martinelli and maybe ethan or maybe odegaard because if you if you if you're going to sit here and say i want vinnie jr and i want bruno and i want constant and that's what we need to go get it, and I'm not willing to sell anyone, then you're on another planet.

1:13:23Because a club that's going to do what we want to do in the market this summer has to also be a club that can sell. It has to. We've sold Leo Trossard. We've still got, by the way, I don't know if you've seen it, Fabio Vieira is having the time of his life at preseason for Arsenal. That's right, that Fabio Vieira. He's still at Arsenal. Sell some players if you want to go do this. I was just, I was doing one of those quizzes again the other day, and the easiest and funniest milestone around the neck is the fact that our biggest sale is still Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, which is just... It blows your mind.

1:13:58An astonishing fact. Of course we need to get better at selling. But I was just thinking then when we were talking about the squad, I remember obviously in the Invincible days, in the Highbury days, where Vieira was the best midfielder in Europe. You could argue around that. Of course, there was a few around there who were pretty decent as well. My point is that he was often injured and often not on the... It felt like he was often injured and not on the team sheet. Didn't bat an eyelid when it was Edu or Parler in the middle instead. I want to feel like that again about the players that we've got.

1:14:35And I don't want it to be... You mentioned Miley Salmon. I don't want it to... I don't want to sit with my fingers crossed because of course, unfortunately, they're right back in the Champions League final. It kind of worked out the way that we thought it might. You know what I mean? And they only took one mistake and he's a brilliant player, but hey, he then made a mistake. I want to get to the Emirates at kickoff and look and go, and we were getting that way. Of course, there was a difference. And I know you're a big fan, Clive, and we've talked about this, but the work that Maduweke did to take that pressure off Saka, the quality wasn't there, but the team didn't feel massively, we weren't massively disadvantaged in the way that we have been before.

1:15:24So we need the right product. We don't need an up-and-comer to sit in for four months while Saliba gets better. And agreeing with Clive about the fact that whether he's going to be up to speed and ready to play three times a week from January, who like I don't want to think that. I just don't want to think, oh no, Gabriel Orsaleva's out from that back line and then I will feel more secure about watching Arsenal this season. Entirely fair. And of course I agree, right? Like just so clear. I don't disagree. Yeah.

1:15:56Elliot:I will say earlier, the selling thing is important, but what we're going to find is when you have players who are fringe players, they're not the first ones to go. The first ones to go are your most valuable assets, right? and that's what you do so the players like because there's a market for them yeah players like Jesus Vieira Nelson you know you know Norgard they're going to people they're going to wait they're going to keep collecting the Arsenal money right and then they're going to go late until their next move because they may not be on the same money wherever they go so they're going to stay they're going to swim around the swimming pool they're going to do the pre-season by the way we need them by the way because half our team are in the World Cup so they're good resources which for us in the early phases of pre-season, and then hopefully they'll move on.

1:16:41Elliot:So, for example, Jesus potentially going back to Brazil. He knocked out for taking him now. Why take him now and pay him his money now? Take him later. Hamburg for Vieira. Why take him now, later? Let's even get that price down a little bit more. So these things will come up. And then when you start to add together those wages, then you think, oh, we can do something further aside. Then we have the more difficult ones to discuss. is someone going to go who may not fill their position in the squad who's there for him anymore, particularly attacking areas. Don't mention Alvarez, by the way. You know, that option for me is not completely done.

1:17:16I don't think it's Alvarez and Vinny, but I take your point.

1:17:19Elliot:The options are all on the table. They're all on the table and I don't want to close one down because I'm not the guy with the calculator. I have one on my phone if you need it. Someone would have to go, right? And to make that feasible, to make that that would be a trade you know so and then there's the Ethan question potentially the Odegaard question there are options there that we may not be comfortable with to make these things work and so just keep my mind open to all of those things but you know Jesus on 250 a week mate last year with his contract that's a big moment for us that's got that's got to move that's really important because we can't we can't be flexible on buyers until we work that stuff out yeah A lot of things for them to get done.

1:18:03And I mean, we've got a preseason game coming up in a couple of days. So it's all very exciting, the things we're linked with. And I think we're linked with some of the kinds of players that move the needle for us in the right kind of way. But as of this moment, we've signed Christos Solis and Ilan Mesli. Right? And like, that's the reality. We're on our way. We're on our way. I'm looking at Madrid flights as we speak. Yeah. Yeah. We have also signed a 16-year-old from... From... Cardiff, is it?

1:18:35Elliot:Cardiff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen the clips? I've only seen the clips. Have you seen them? I watched them quite a bit this past season. So what else... Mate, he's like a young Ramsey. Yeah. Seriously. Honestly, it's scary. He's really interested on the clips anyway. Maybe. I mean, comes from Wales, 16... Like, maybe Aaron Ramsey found a time machine, and it is young Aaron Ramsey. And he's just going to try again and start it over. I did see a very, very funny message on Blue Sky. A guy calls himself Popsy Winkle. It's funny to be able to. A couple of weeks ago, he posted, my parents went to the bank in Barry and some kid with his dad trying to open a new bank account apparently has just signed for Arsenal.

1:19:18And then he put underneath it, forget David Ornstein, this is where transfer news breaks first. So then, of course, like five days later from that tweet, from that message on Blue Sky then we did sign Axel Dongsu so he's just gone oh my god am I an ITK now so I do I like that because we used to have a thing about I think we once got a tip an unfounded tip maybe somebody wrote in to say that the guy who was Emmanuel Abue's mechanic had passed on some information we seem to have moved into the Bombay era you remember Diaby at the mosque right? there you go we're in the Bombay era now, but like, yeah, seeing somebody in the post office, like opening a new bank account because they're signing for Arsenal just feels very, it feels very 2014.

1:20:07He must feel so bad. He had his first bomb and it's wiped off the front page by David Ornstein linking us to Vinny Jr. It's a hard business, ITK business. I think we leave it there. Please check out our app in the iOS store and very, very soon, if not already, the Google Play store. Let us know what you think. There's ways to get in touch right in the app. and please check out the scouting video Bruno Gimeraish and Vinny Jr. tomorrow with me and Clive because it's going to be a banger and hopefully we can record it before they're both announced I don't know if we'll get it done under the wire but we'll do our best, Teo, always a blast love you, miss you, thank you for doing it Thanks so much for having me Clive, I look forward to seeing you tomorrow and making all kinds of weird noises as we watch those two players

1:20:45Elliot:See we can uncover some new things about him, eh? The mysterious Bruno Gimeraish and Vinny Jr. What will we learn? Tune in to find out. Yeah, it should be revelatory. Okay, we'll definitely leave it there. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow for the scouting video. We'll be back, of course, on Thursday with MainPod. We love you. And we'll talk to you after Arsenal 10, Translator 1 to 0.

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