Who Will Challenge Arsenal Next Season?

0:00Music

0:16It's Rice. What a goal! Declan Rice with an absolute rocket with a free kick. Arsenal lead 1-0. Cut inside. Saka! Sublime finish. He's back with a bang! It's a close sack of 1-0! Unbelievable! Look, I think we know Arsenal are going to repeat as champions this season. The question on everybody's mind, who might finish second? This is the Arsenal Vision Post-Match Podcast. My name's Elie Spiethic, I'm your turner, and you're in there. Hello, everybody! Welcome to a God's Honest Arsenal Vision Podcast. Hope you're enjoying the World Cup Daily if you are consuming them. And if you're not consuming them, then that's totally fine.

0:50What World Cup Daily? There's only an Arsenal Vision Podcast. Tim did an amazing history pod on the last time we retained the English league title tinged with tragedy so you can listen to that episode if you'd like to Louis Ambrose did his director of football episode sold all your favorite players listen to that so you know what to be angry at him about he also bought a unit up front but you'll have to listen to find out which unit he bought to have up front we did a scouting video last week of someone oh yeah Christos Solis that's it we've got the Rodgers and Barcola and Kruppi and Alex Scott scouting videos still on the horizon so lots of good stuff to come and we'd love to have you there sleep a 50s code if you want to do it for uh half off and give it a try or just stay here world cup dailies running i hope you're enjoying them timsy will be taking you through most of this week as i uh am not going to be available most likely but we will continue to have those for you and then the transfer daily we'll start after that uh my personal podcasting prison where you are welcome to join me for visiting hours okay here with me now is tim hello tim hello there how you doing yeah not too bad thank you not too bad yeah um i guess so it's interesting i i think there's a little bit of sort of arsenal injury and player news we could talk about i want to touch on a little bit of how the arsenal players are performing at the world cup maybe one or two little small transfer stories but i thought a fun place to start you know mckellar ted is now the longest tenured manager in the entirety of english football club football the entire the premier league EFL, I believe he is the longest tenured manager.

2:25Big change at City. You know, is Rodri Dunn? You know, what are they going to pivot to now? Is it going to be Maresca? What will that be like? Liverpool, they're changing managers. They have sort of almost an immediate additional rebuild to do. They have some talent, but, you know, they have work to do. Chelsea won't have Europe, which is hilarious, but may help them. United, who looked good at the run-in last season, will have European Champions League football and, you know, is Carrick really the guy? So it got me thinking. I feel our floor is very high, something we've been talking about. And I think this summer will probably be about raising our ceiling.

3:02We know that injuries can play a role, but we won't necessarily focus on that for now. I'm wondering how you're thinking about the landscape of Premier League football going into next season. And who are the teams that really could push us? And to what extent do you think we may be going in as sort of the most heralded Arsenal team ever in terms of the degree to which people will be expecting us? Not just believing we can, but expecting us to go on and retain this title. Yeah, it's really interesting because there's just so many unknowns around our challenges because most of them have new managers.

3:40And with Manchester City, I would expect them still to be very strong. I think it would be a surprise if they weren't. It's just a matter for me whether they have those little kind of kinks you've got to iron out. And to be fair, they've had those the last couple of seasons. They finished third and second. They haven't won the title for a couple of years now. And it's kind of like we let Man City's success wash over us so much that that's almost crept up on us, I think, that they haven't won the last two and two other teams have. and maybe people will start to talk about that a bit next year particularly because we're going to get a clean break from Guardiola because Guardiola very understandably has so much credit in the bank that that's almost like well yeah okay two years without a title by his standards that's that's um quite unusual but he's just got so much credit in the bank whereas you know someone like Maresca doesn't necessarily start with that and I think what I'd kind of say as well it's like most clubs struggle when they lose a legacy manager now Liverpool still won the league first season after Klopp I think on Klopp autopilot I always felt that and feel that's been borne out I look at like you know in in the women's game at the moment Chelsea women with Emma Hayes gone they did actually win the league the year after she went again that felt very slots first season at Liverpool a little bit autopilot but now the rebuilds there they're finding things a little bit more difficult because it when you lose a big big personality character that your your club is built around it takes a while and we've experienced it quite quite recently so for me I I'd still expect man city to be there really what it kind of comes down to is how is iria iraola going to do at liverpool and how is alonso going to do at chelsea and i actually can see a world where they both do pretty well just because i think sometimes with managers sometimes it's almost like politics as well like prime ministers presidents do you want to be the guy after the guy or do you want do you want like that buffer do you do you want you you're Unai Emery before you're Arteta to kind of mess some stuff up get it wrong and then you come in with a really proper mandate like I think Xabi Alonso at Chelsea I imagine there's going to be a lot of you know look what you guys have been doing for the last four or five years is ridiculous I'm not doing that and maybe the ownership's come to a point where they've gone yeah you're right actually that's been ridiculous and he gets a bit more power a bit like I think Arteta had when he came in Iriola you know slots kind of made some mistakes I think I think that can just be quite useful for a manager when someone else has come in and made the mistakes and it just gives you I think sometimes that gives you a bit of clarity so I'm not I'm not absolutely you know saying those two will work like because there's a world where they're both rubbish there's a world where one of them's rubbish and is sacked in November like I don't know but I could see my way to Liverpool and Chelsea especially without Europe if with a good win behind them I could see them starting well and I could see that becoming a conversation um a couple of months into the season certainly yeah I I will confess that I always tend to think Liverpool can do something because I think they've been, by and large, a pretty smart club.

7:27Last summer, I didn't necessarily understand their approach, and I had big doubts about Slott, as I said, coming out of even the title-winning season. But I think Iriola, what worries me is, I think he's a very, very good manager, and I think he, unlike Thomas Frank, for example, who played a style of football that really, you could see why it might not scale to a big club, Iraiola is the opposite. Pressing, building play through the thirds, quick passing moves that lead to chances. It actually feels a little bit Klopp-esque, maybe a little more in the DNA of Klopp Liverpool where they will be intense, they'll be up the pitch, they'll be harrying.

8:04And I think given some of their defensive woes, I could see a world where going away from slots, slow, deliberate buildup, trying to be a little more patient and going a little more up-tempo and pressing might just emphasize where they have maximized their talent and where they are best. Karakas, you know, a player who I don't rate and didn't have a good season with Liverpool. Iriola might be able to get something out of him. The thing with Liverpool is there's no question they have the talent to get goals, even with Salah moving on. I think they're linked with Yann D 'Amande, the young star who has flourished at the World Cup.

8:40But like, gosh, the midfield still doesn't look balanced. The back four or back, I think it will be a back four, has big problems. Neither Frimpong nor Karakas are true proper fullbacks for me. Kanate looks done. Van Dijk looks close to done. They got a lot of work to do back there. I know they signed that Italian guy, the young player who got injured, I think just before the season started or at the start of the season last season. So still a lot of work for them to do in the market, but I think Iriola is a good appointment. With Maresca, I'm less sure. And I'll ask you this, Tim, If you think Rodri's done, and if you think they may have trouble, and I don't know if they will, attracting talent based on what's hanging over them legally, maybe Elliot Anderson lands there, and I think he's a very good player.

9:26I think it does kind of boil down with City to the extent to which Pep is the guy. And what I look at with Pep is a few things. every season pep had this unique ability to solve a problem in their squad with a player you didn't see it coming with a great example this season was nico o'reilly he just found a way to use nico o'reilly to cause all kinds of havoc rampaging forward scoring goals you know filling gaps in their buildup you know that were left maybe by an aging rodri and nico o'reilly is a great example of a player that he found to solve a problem you know he he was tactically so astute you look at the league cup final and the way he used that sheet that you know four player shield in front of our back four and we didn't really have a solve for it i just wonder when you take the pep magic out of it and his ability to manage the egos and his ability to manage a team that would start slow sometimes but finish so so strong do you just wind up with what we tend to see at some of these big moneyed clubs which is a lot of egos on a lot of big money and not the right man to motivate and and energize them to really fight for the badge you know yeah i i don't know if i see city as a team of egos i think to this point they've done pretty well to avoid that and stay away from from that type of player like the way they really built their squad out like under guardiola was not necessarily with we're buying like the best player in the world for 150 million it's like we're buying like 23 to 24 50 million players that's more kind of how they did it like they just they really really spread the quality out argument you know in de Bruyne they probably had someone that was worth a lot more than they paid and they already had David Silva at the club so like that was a a kind of a really good basis so like considering what they are you can't call them starless by any means but they're not like Real Madrid it's not like this guy runs the show even Erling Haaland like I like the guy actually I do quite like him he seems like quite a likeable person and then you know there are some players that we probably find quite irritating some of whom have gone like Bernardo Silva but I don't doubt that in the dressing room and everything like that, like that he is exemplary, he's just a bit irritating on the pitch if you don't support Man City, but I think that's another big thing though, they're losing a couple, you know, one by one some of these big pillar players have gone, like Vincent Kompany and De Bruyne and then, you know, now you've got Bernardo Silva and John Stones, now they played most of last season without John Stones most of the last two seasons But Bernardo Silva was still very important for them a very very important player going to be very very difficult to replace and you know I say they basically not played with John Stones for the last two seasons well they haven't won the league either so like there's still work for them to do there and I guess with Maresca it's just so difficult to predict because like he got Leicester promoted but Leicester fans still didn't seem to really like him that much and I don't think he did an amazing job at Chelsea see I think he did an okay job yeah but like there were still a lot of misgivings about how slow and labored their play was and you know both not being that interesting to watch but not always being hugely effective like I don't think it's a given that um that he's been a fact that he's really proved himself yet but I guess what they're betting on is he's come through like you know the pep school as it were the city school and then they're betting on the fact that he can just plug in and and do a lot of the same things tactically but i'm with you i don't like ultimately they're on hiding to nothing because where do you go from possibly the best manager ever like you're only ever downgrading from there so yeah i think that's gonna be really interesting also what i found interesting i've literally only just thought of this they haven't announced it yet have they or have i missed it i think pep going is announced they haven't announced mares no no mares is not announced and apparently there are some issues with chelsea because he was talking to city while he was under contract with chelsea and there's some legal concerns there but my assumption is it'll get done that's kind of what everyone's presuming yeah it's it's just like i've just considered it done for so long that literally just when you were talking at the top there i was like yeah they haven't announced it no they haven't and you know to your point you could say all right well maybe not a team of egos I mean the one thing I think we we all do is maybe presume we understand the egos of players more than we actually do but what I would say is it is still a big squad of big money players and when you're playing for Pep Guardiola maybe Pep Guardiola can convince a Phil Foden to be a role player convince a Ryan Cherky who had a reputation of having a difficult entourage before coming to city that hey he's not going to start most games but he's going to be really impactful off the bench and be the guy that wins games for them maybe under Maresca, Phil Foden says, no, I'm a star, mate.

14:39You start me. Or Ryan Turkey says, I'm not comfortable with that role anymore. I'm here to be the man. And maybe Omar Marmoush says, well, what about me? I was kind of left for dead in this squad, and I'm ready to be a big part of it now. And I think managing that is going to be a big thing. You look at Chelsea, what are egos, right? Egos are just footballers on big money who are marginalized in a squad. And if that squad is competing for all the big things under one of the most legendary managers maybe you say i like being a part of this right but if you're not then suddenly it could be a problem you could say the same thing at arsenal by the way there are a lot of players who had to play very complementary roles to put it kindly but under a michael arteta when you're making champions league finals and winning premier leagues it all congeals and it all works from the liverpool standpoint tim do you do you see there just being too much work that has to be done on that squad and too much around the injuries to Izak and Eketike and their durability?

15:42Like, are they in a situation where they almost are doing another big rebuild on the heels of a rebuild? And how do you feel about Arayola being able to get them to play football that may resonate a little more with the Anfield faithful in terms of feeling like clop light, you know, a bit of a clop variant. Yeah, I think on Iriola, let me preface this by saying if I were a Liverpool fan, that's who I'd have wanted. If I were a Chelsea fan, that's who I'd have wanted. As well, I think City's different because you probably are looking for someone closer to Pep's actual style. So I think it's a good appointment for them.

16:21It's what I'd want. I guess if you were looking for, if we were the Liverpool Vision podcast and we were looking for like bits of doubt. I don't think they have podcasts for Liverpool. But yeah, carry on. Or question marks. I still think there, when I say scalability, I don't mean scalability in terms of like, you know, will the style suit like big players in a big club? It will. When I'm talking scalability, I mean a 55, 60 game season. because one thing Bournemouth got was a lot of injuries actually and they were quite streaky under Iriola which was kind of weird. Well, it wasn't weird because what happened was that generally they'd start quite strongly, all their players would get injured, they'd have a sticky couple of months, their players would come back and they'd look great again.

17:14Now, he'll have a bigger squad to go with that so there's that to it and something that I think is enormous in his favour when we're talking about rebuild, when we're potentially talking about squad rotation. I think the most impressive part of what he did at Bournemouth was to lose massive players and for it to have almost no impact. Like for him to lose his goalkeeper and three of his back four last summer and then it's like, yeah, took about three games and then we signed loads of other players that no one's ever heard of who are all going to go for like 50 million pounds now like uh you know the left back is it troffaire um troffaire yeah yeah yeah uh looks like looks really really good and they they just replaced them no problem but um i'm pretty sure that really what happens at bournemouth um you know that obviously they have talent um in their team but i i think what quite obviously happens is the coaching and the system elevates that talent and platforms it quite significantly so you know if Liverpool are looking at how does this all fit together do we have to like rejig things a little bit I think here Iola's could I'm sure he would have pointed to it in his job interview he said you know every summer even in January like I lose Semenyo and we don't lose a game basically so you know if if he's working with kind of raw materials and all of that on the fly he's he's got the cv behind him i think but that doesn't make it easy and you know the other thing is at somewhere like bournemouth if you have a bit of a sticky patch no one really notices people notice at liverpool if you don't win a game or you don't win a game or two so you know like I think tactically hugely scalable I think you're right but I guess it's the kind of you know dealing with the spotlight and dealing with the fitness and and stuff like that like can he do that because even Klopp I think what it took him a couple of seasons but where he really started to challenge was when they worked out how to how to beat teams without going a thousand miles an hour for every minute of every game where they they kind of found gears a little bit and that that's going to be the challenge for iraio you can't do that bournemouth but you can do that liverpool and that's going to be quite a new thing for him i think i i mean this is just pure vibes but i think he could make them really really hard to play against at anfield and they're already hard to play against at anfield because i think that that fan base responds to that high intensity playing style and pressing and winning the ball high up and you can get the Anfield crowd behind you.

20:06And I think, yeah, I think it could be a really good fit for them. But unless they sort out some defensive additions in midfield, I still think they're going to be a team that looks very lopsided, scores goals, concedes goals. With Chelsea, the squad's a mess. The squad's just a mess. And you could say, well, they have no Europe and look what United did with that. But I think the problem Chelsea have is Chelsea have such a big squad too. You almost want to have Europe, like Conference League or Europa League are saying so that you can play those other guys and keep them invested because that is a squad where if you're playing once a week there's going to be 15 guys that aren't playing that all think they should be playing football and they're going to be talking to their agent or they're going to be chirping to the press so just really sets up for a toxic atmosphere one other team we haven't talked about is United though they obviously finished the season strong everybody knows their record was good when they played once a week less good when they played twice a week.

20:58And in Carrick, I don't know that we know what they really have from a manager standpoint. But they're Manchester United. They have some talent and they could fire the money cannons and bring in some additional quality. Sesco is betted in now. I imagine he will. You'll see him starting more games. Cunha is a lovely player and Bumo is still a good player. I don't know the deal with Bruno Fernandes for much longer, you know, and what that situation will be and that's obviously a player that you know likes to touch paper for them so i mean very very important for them but what do you what do you make of united with champions league in the mix and carrick getting you know a full season to work with them yeah i i famous last words i don't necessarily regard them as a challenger at this stage again there's some unknowns there how do they cope with Europe and everything um I think I did say last summer that I kind of liked what they did in terms of transfers last summer um I think my line was at the time that like they've got so much to sort out in terms of their midfield their defense the goalkeeper that they had that I don't think that's an issue for them now but it certainly was last summer and I think my view was go and get goal scorers because they they were like they were like 14th 13th like two three seasons in a row in terms of goals scored and it's like if you're going to be a bit chaotic score some goals while you do it I think I've just got a lot of questions about sustainability not just based on having Europe but actually when you look at they conceded a lot of goals under Carrick and there's a lot of like helter-skelter games which including against us by the way many of which kind of went their way but there was like did they draw 3-3 with Bournemouth at home and there were lots of like 3-2s 3-3s and and that that doesn't feel particularly sustainable to me um over the course of a season I think if you keep doing that you you'll lose some games 3-2 um which you know they did as well so i also think um you know obviously things kind of picked up after they sacked ruben amarin who i think wanted to be sacked as well quite a while before the before it actually happened but i i think the thing is there as well is you know and all the all the reasons you get new manager bounce everyone hated the old you know the previous manager you come in you're not Ruben Amarim not that you're Michael Carrick you're not Ruben Amarim I think that has some value as well you can surprise people and blah blah blah all the stuff we've we've kind of heard before and seen before but I also just wouldn't underestimate the extent to which United got into the Champions League kind of because everyone else tanked and it's kind of similar for Liverpool as well to be honest Liverpool were in some danger but like you had Newcastle had a nothing season Spurs completely tanked and nearly went down and Chelsea completely tanked in the second half of the season like there are a lot of teams that would ordinarily make those positions a bit more competitive who were just completely and utterly off the map so it kind of feels like running unopposed you know in in footballing terms so i'm i'm to be convinced by man united but it it also depends what kind of summer they have really yeah behind the curtain here just briefly it appears that there's something flying around your room is it a bat a bug what are we what are we talking about no um i i think it i think it's it's a fly oh it's quite hot here so we've had like windows and doors open all day so it's a fly house fly one of those guys yes yeah we've had a scourge of house flies recently and i was recording a world cup deal and it kept flying back and forth in front of the camera and i was just like all over the place and uh so i feel your pain do you need to stop and attack the flyer or are you prepared to no coexist with it but i don't actually know where it is anymore so yeah they're not easy to catch no no that will be like a running around with a tea towel job and that's just undignified i do it with chopsticks you know kind of like uh was it miyagi and um yeah yeah and karate kid but but not everybody can do that um well so let's let's say this and look i want to to be clear this is not the best analysis of rivals you're ever going to get because first of all it's summer we're not plugged into their rumors as closely as you know we are with ours for example where we're monitoring every day and there's a lot of new managers in play and don't know what to expect to them but i think if you look at the league recently no one has really threatened the 90 plus point threshold the last couple seasons obviously three seasons ago we and City came the closest with City going just a point above it and us going just a point below it.

25:55Tim, I really believe we might be in an era now of a bit more parity in the Premier League and 83, 84, 85 points routinely being, at least for the next little while, title worthy. And if you said to me, is there a team that gets to 90? Is there a team that gets to 91, 92 and runs away with it? I say Arsenal could. I'm not saying I expect that of us, but I don't see another team that can and so I guess what I would say to you is what are the scenarios where we aren't right there competing for the title and and for me it is simply injury but I can't conceive of another construction where the season doesn't at least give us a very very good opportunity you know before I might have said well Liverpool get to 93 points or City get to 95 points but now that I don't see that really in the range of outcomes it's injury and injury only that to me I think could stand in the way of us being right there you know all the way through the season yeah injury or just unexpected you know we talked about all these unknowns with our challenges like just an a kind of somewhat unexpected like Iriola takes over Liverpool and is absolutely amazing or you know Alonso takes over Chelsea and they're absolutely amazing and everything just comes together and everything works properly like you know in in those scenarios where one of those new managers just absolutely gets it right off the bat nobody knows what they're doing they're a complete surprise to everyone and they just completely you know i guess like who would have in the summer of 2022 who would have said that arsenal would be like challenging for the title like no way i don't even think we really thought that but it happened like so there's through some alchemy it kind of happened and um yeah and and just something like that potentially um but i'm with you i think in injury injury that's kind of where my mind is at the moment like the health of the squad yep uh going into the 22-23 season uh clive and i were the most uh optimistic about arsenal both predicting us to finish third with 78 for Clive 76 points for me you were on 71 finishing fourth so I don't think we were sort of unfancied in the sense of we weren't going to be good if you remember we had just missed out on top four the season before but you're right I don't think anyone had seen a title challenge coming but I guess what I would say about that arsenal that I also don't see we were a big club with a retained manager that was young and those young players were starting to you know go the next lap so to speak right go again the next lap the sack is the martinelli's you know there were players that were there saliba was getting better gabby was getting better and if i look at the league right now i say united actually have more of an aging late prime team except for benjamin sesko i mean maybe that's the thing because if you say how did liverpool win the league two seasons ago they did it on muhammad salaj is going absolutely nuclear right he just went supernova city could win the league and run away with it on a holland 50 goal season you know something like that where there there are times when you watch holland and you say he has that in him the lap the league quality he started the season that way um and then fell away a little bit harder when you're talking about having gone from club world cup last summer and world cup this summer it's going to be a trying time for and con united you know again not young liverpool the young talent they have you know an ecatica coming off a devastating injury obviously florian verts i just don't think he's right for the premier league chelsea have a lot of young talent to be fair but they just have a lot of everything hard to know how the pieces fit together maybe it is a united maybe a benjamin sesco just goes that next big leap all the reasons we when we talked about could we sign benjamin sesco him, would we?

29:56The theory of the case was he's got all the tools. If he ever puts it together, he has the capacity to be a devastating player. You know, if you have another season of good Bruno Fernandes and Kunyan and Buma are good, and then Sesco goes to that next tier, maybe they can get to that 85, 86 point threshold. I think that would probably be the ceiling for them. And with Champions League, it'd be difficult. But so it leaves me with this. I think, Tim, in all the time I've been watching the Premier League, and I picked us to finish first last season, I picked us to finished first the season before and I picked his finish first season before and all the time I've watched Arsenal literally yeah all the time I think I will be the most bullish on our title odds this going into this season barring something really crazy happening this summer a devastating injury crazy good signings for other teams and we don't execute but as as a state of play right now I think this will be the most bullish I'll be on our title chances for the Premier League that I've ever been Would you say that you will be feeling or currently feel roughly the same way?

30:54Pretty close. I do think, excuse me, I'll tell you. Sorry. If not, what would a season have been where you felt more confident? Going into 2002, 2003, because the way we finished 2001, 2002, you could really see a team coming together. and the way we finished that season was incredible as well and then we went into 2002-2003 and people were already talking about the unbeaten record held by Nottingham Forest of 42 games at the time because as we know someone else came along and broke it but people were talking about that record I remember and yeah I the way we started 2002-03 in particular so maybe it was it bled into like the start of that season I still think that's the best football I've ever seen Arsenal play um that first maybe month and a half of 2002-2003 where we were just like super confident all one touch football kind of you know burying everyone and and in fact that season our downfall was that we were too good and we we kind of allowed ourselves to think that we were going to walk it and you know United came back strong um at the end but yeah that that's that's the only time I can think of it to be fair again after the invincible season after a season where you haven't lost a game I wasn't expecting to do that again don't get me wrong I did expect us to win the league again that year but in hindsight I think that was naive just because you know that was Chelsea's second summer with Abramovich and having never seen anything like that before in English football I underestimated like how quickly that would have an impact I think I was a little bit maybe in denial but like we'd just never seen anything like that so after the unbeaten season I I was I was very confident that we'd win it again and I thought oh Chelsea maybe a year or two before they come back into it but um yeah that that that was kind of that was built on sand really yeah yeah that that's fair and I have to admit right I I watched Arsenal back then I cared about Arsenal back then but my ability to watch it consistently was limited so I knew we were very good.

33:26I didn't have the granular detail that I have now in terms of just granular, deep understanding of Arsenal. And someone would say, some might say, Elliot, you don't have a granular, deep understanding of Arsenal. But to the extent that I do, in the modern era of Arsenal, this is probably the most I feel we are prepared to go again. Now that kind of hubris can lead to your downfall, as we know, because as you said, you're most confident in the 0-2-0-3 season. No spoilers, we didn't win it. We led it for 71 % of the season. We dropped an eight-point lead and collapsed. So hopefully nothing like that going on.

33:56All right. I want to talk about brands and we can talk a little bit about Declan Rice injury updates, Arsenal players at the World Cup, and whether Tim is invested in any transfer rumors, although there's not much going on. And I don't know if I have the energy for another Morgan Rogers conversation right now. So the first thing I want to do is tell you about Saley. Saley comes to you from the people who created NordVPN, and Saley is an eSIM. This is genius, right? This is the kind of thing that if you said to someone who travels, what would you create? You'd create this. It's an app you put on your phone, Android or iPhone, and you download the app once, you sign up once, and then when you travel, you have a SIM that is local to that region.

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38:19And it is just one of those things that inevitably, you know, you see a player gutting it out on the pitch and you think that player looks like he's gutting it out. And then sure enough, you come to find out that player was gutting it out. Declan Rice has been managing neural pain in his hamstring for six months um you know that that doesn't sound great nerve pain in your hamstring for six months I'm sure what would help with that is rest so cue Declan Rice playing 90 minutes the entire world cup um we already know that Saka's managing this Achilles tendinopathy tendinosis whatever it is um you know Declan or Uri and Timber has not been able to get fit at all.

38:59And the way it was said, you know, by the Netherlands camp, it didn't sound close to being fixed. We just talked about Arsenal being the team that is going to be the most favored to come back and do this all again. But that's partly because we have a very talented squad and the very talented squad is carrying a lot of injuries. Saliba is managing a back issue. Start with Rice. How worried are you about the news about Rice and the need to try to find a way to get this guy some time off from football? Yeah. Yeah, so I assume this is what he, I think he missed the Aston Villa game in December, just after Christmas.

39:30And I assume that's what it is. You do often see him cradling his back towards the end of games. We have seen him taken off by Arsenal as well, I think, in that scenario quite a few times. And then he usually plays the next game. Or in the case of the Villa game, he doesn't, but he comes back pretty quickly. And I think it's perfectly understandable if we're all a bit scarred by this because it feels like we've we've seen this before where we have players who haven't had a big injury yet and they play through some things like Saka like Havertz and then until they can't anymore really and and it leads to bigger problems but then again sometimes it doesn't um you know kind of happened with Gabriel right Gabriel tore his hamstring last season got an injury on international duty in November but he's largely been okay we don't worry about him as much and I've been reflecting on you know I guess those other players across the league who play a similar amount of football like Erling Haaland he plays all the time for Manchester City like he plays basically every minute of every game and you know how much do you worry about that but I think it's obviously different when you know that you've got players carrying some things and I think it's quite evident that you know we we the club Arteta I think understandably maybe took some short-term decisions in the interest of winning the league last year I think we saw that in the transfer market as well and in terms of players who really really push themselves um and and i think really what i'm looking at is i'm looking at okay who have we got who's not at the world cup this summer it's not many players but i'm looking at someone like mascara and i'm like you're not at the world cup that means because like pre-season in tournament years becomes really interesting because all those players get to play um so players like miles lewis skelly um like califuri um like mascara who aren't at the tournament they suddenly become they could become very important at the beginning of next season like david ryan's at the world cup doesn't look like he's going to play um and actually he's goalkeeper anyway so i think that's kind of less less an issue anyway um you know what kind of when's ben white going to be ready is he going to play any of pre-season are we going to be starting the season without him we don't really know that yet either um but yeah i i think i think it but and then like we've got there are players you i also kind of don't worry about as much like i maybe this is unfounded i don't really worry about how much football jokeres plays even though he's getting like he's in physical duels all the time i just there's just something in my head that's just like, yeah, that's what he does.

42:34So, you know. I should mention, and Cappier, by the way, out already, out of the World Cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, so it's kind of, it's any member of our first team squad that is fit and not at the World Cup, I think has some good chances to really build some momentum into the season. I do, I think that even just goes for the guys who perhaps either don't play very much, like how many minutes is Azza going to get at the World Cup? Probably not. Zubermendi. Zubermendi's not been coming on. Mikel Moreno is actually quite useful for him, I think, getting some minutes at this World Cup.

43:17So a lot of those players start to look, they could be very, very important at the beginning of next season because I think, like we're talking rice-ly, and Saka aren't we and our three most important players I'm just gonna say if you said top three most important players at Arsenal I'd say Rice, Saliba and Saka and it's those three so yeah you know that's the difference between being a team that can win a title and a team that can win a domestic and European double yeah and like Odegaard as well um you know and and when we're asking questions about well is he as important as the other three well before he got that ankle injury a couple of years ago, I think we'd have definitely been saying yes about that.

44:04Because that can be the thing sometimes. Players can be very durable until they're not. Like Santi Cazorla, if you look up his injury history at Arsenal before the injury that just completely ended his Arsenal career, very, very little there. Not many soft tissue injuries. Like, very, very available player until he wasn't. And that stuff can change quite quickly. I guess what I'd hope is, I know we discussed this on the Fixtures Patreon pod, but there is a three-week international break in September. I'd really like some countries. I mean, it's going to be difficult for them because it's going to be more qualifiers played.

44:48So the break's going to be even more important for them. But like if, say, we have got some players on the edge or who haven't come back yet, like potentially like after September 19th, there's like three weeks without a game, basically. So like, you know, if that could be used somehow to like try and get them some rest or if they start the season slowly and then they get that three weeks, like could help. You know what you could do? I mean, you could say, we're just not going to play Declan Rice or Bakaya Saka through September 19th. And if they get called up for their country, that's their preseason.

45:29You know, 60 minutes here or there for England. You know, maybe same with Saliba. 60 minutes here or there, or 90 minutes here or there for France is their preseason. Then they come back and they come into the club picture. But it is an irony, too, that because Saka's being so managed by England, are other right-wing players playing more at the World Cup in Nani Maduike, right? So you don't get much relief there. It's an interesting one. It does present an opportunity for players who may, you know, like an Ethan Nguyenary might say, Hey, Mikel, I'm not at the World Cup. I still want to fight for my time here.

46:06And I'm going to be in their preseason showing you how good I am. You know, Max Downman is going to be probably chomping at the bit to say, I know I'm young, but I am ready to make the leap and play important minutes at the start of the season. Those will be interesting things to see. Arsenal going after a lot of young players, by the way. I think Batashvili is a player that we're going for, a Georgian. This McKaylee guy, our scout, seems to be really going for bright young talent. Now, he won't come to us for another year, so we'll have to see about that. But maybe some new signings who come in, they're going to really need preseason if they want to get their opportunity early in the season.

46:39So it's going to be interesting to see how we manage it. I would say that I kind of just assume Declan Rice must be okay because he's playing all the time, whereas Bakayo Saka is not. And when it comes to an athlete, they will play hurt, but they usually don't play injured, if you know what I mean. A lot of athletes will play through the pain barrier, but they won't play actively through injury. And I think Bakayo Saka is actively injured so that's the one that worries me the most um and we'll just need to get him rest and see what happens so i don't know that's that's for me that is the the whole key to next season going the way we hope because we are not going to sign anyone this window as important as saliba rice or sacca so if saliba rice and sacca play 60 games for arsenal football club next season we probably win everything we want to win if they play half that then there's your answer for how Arsenal don't go on and achieve their goals, right?

47:43We have now played PSG three times, oh four times the last two seasons, but three times in the knockout round of Champions League. And when you look at the players that were involved and what they were able to give, you know, there's a lot of things we'd like to do differently. And when we played them in October, we smashed them. And we had all our players. And what do you know? Exactly. Now granted, they weren't the same team then either, but that's beside the point. So, yeah, I guess one other thing that's kind of struck me as I look at the World Cup, I watched Belgium today fail to beat Iran, but their best player in my mind was Leo Troussard.

48:17And I watch him and I just think he is a lovely player. And I think a lot of us feel, well, this is the time he's going to be moved on, maybe Nelly too, and we're going to get another wide forward for the left side. But the combination of his availability, his consistency, I know he had a dip this season and he had some off pitch things that he was dealing with, but just watching him today against Iran and I realize it's Iran but he was the best player on the pitch in my view and he's just a lovely player Tim and maybe we have to be a little bit careful about just being ready to move on from players like that I'm not saying we don't need that next level of quality at left wing but he's stood out for me today what about you with Leo and anyone else that's kind of standing out for you from an Arsenal standpoint at the World Cup yeah yeah no I agree with that and I think what was really nice about his performance today was like um you know coming infield doing that kind of wide 10 stuff like belgium do a lot of rotating with their front three and all of that so you know he's finding those half spaces which you associate with him but he was also getting to the byline and just roasting um the right back um pretty well as well he's pretty versatile player like in in that respect like that that's what i just find so interesting about him at brighton he He played loads and loads of different positions at Arsenal.