World Cup Daily - England Held, Ronaldo Gets His Goals

0:09Music

0:25England get a draw. They're on course to top the group and progress in the World Cup. And so, in keeping with the English media tradition, we'll tell you why it's a crisis. This is the World Cup Daily. My name is Elliot Smith. The Black Man's Twitter. Hello, everybody. That's right. We are going to cover England a little bit more than the other games yesterday because, obviously, we have this association with England. You know, my association with England, being that I love an English club, the association with England of the other gentlemen on the pod, being that they are indeed English. this Friday Clive and I I think are going to hit the scouting videos again and it looks like Alex Scott may be on the agenda but you never know that could there be a Krupi, a Barkal, an Ayubuadi could it be Jeremy Munga who is about to sign you don't know because we haven't decided but once we decide we will let you know and then you can come uh listen slash watch it you can do both Saliba 50s of code 50 % off a couple of quid you got content all summer long about transfers and then you can obviously drop the patreon once the season starts because who wants to hear about football at that point.

1:22This Sunday in Chicago, I will be with James McNicholas and Paul doing a live podcast. The tickets for the podcast part have sold out, but there's a huge overflow room where we'll be hanging out. We'll be watching football together, watching the knockout game later that day. So if you want to come out, chicago.arsenalvisionpodcast.com. We'd love to see you. We're going to be in Dublin. More news about that soon with Andrew, the more popular Arsenal podcast that is put out called The Arscast. We'd love to see you there. There'll be more news about that as well and now we can dispense with all the chitter chatter and talk world cup baby i wish i could be like alexi lawless but i just don't think i have it in me here with you now is timsey hello timsey hello elliot and hello clive if that is indeed my name and yes the man who is here with us as well is clive hi clive hello hello are you are you prepared to talk

2:10Elliot:about england england football yeah i am if i if i go deep just just sort me out right i just i can't I want to say England won all their World Cup games when Keir Starmer was Prime Minister and have not won a game since. So do we want to talk politics? I'm kidding. I do know that people love hashtag politics, but we won't do that for now. So the first thing I want to do just quickly, Timsy, you went to your first World Cup game. I've never been to one. You drove up to Boston with some friends and you went to the game and you saw all of the goals. How were all the goals and how was all the rain?

2:41Michael Timbs:it was uh good fun driving four hours uh standing in a bar full of americans watching the portugal game and then going to the the england game getting drenched and watching all the goals and all the action which was totally not frustrating uh and then heading four hours home uh bar via new haven to get the best pizza in the u.s which was very good so that was the silver lining yeah new haven new haven does have some good pizza there's absolutely no denying it they have a terrible university there though i don't know if you've heard of it yale yeah it's more of a lock factory than a university but okay okay i i have a bit of a rivalry with yeah we we went we went to one of the rival schools okay one of the right okay but that's okay we want the less we say about that the better um i will say about that bar with all the americans in it one of the problems with america that i find there's so many americans in it so many okay so so we'll get onto the the football do we have side of it i'm sure but just to say and i love fandom all over the place but maybe it's the kind of english purist in me english football purist in me that like seeing so many neutral fans turn up to stadiums in random kits for like the two like the with not the two teams that are playing annoys me more than it should it shouldn't matter but then you're there and actually like watching watching your team you want us like you want your team to win all the many just other shirts and not to place the blame purely on the americans go for it you can it was everyone just wearing whatever shirt and it's like this is not an nfl game it's not a baseball get like this is this is football and it really matters and you're kind of like yeah but if we won i wouldn't care but because we didn't win i was like and damn all of these people who've got a bloody US jersey and then one of them had a, I don't know, Colorado Rapids or something.

4:57Michael Timbs:And I'm like, go away. Was it Rob Holding? It was not Rob Holding. I literally thought of Rob Holding in my head, which is why I said Colorado Rapids. But yeah, that was one bit. Just honestly, Tim, real quick on the football. Do you think that's why England didn't score a goal? Is that? No, absolutely not. I put that, I blame purely the England side for that. Okay, all right. There is a discussion to have.

5:21Elliot:I'm in a deep mode today, right? There's a discussion to have, right? So because the ticket prices, how the tickets are sold, for how long they've been on sale, right? That encourages a different set of people to say, well, no, I fancy going to that, right? So I'll give you an example. The rugby premiership finals at Twickenham last Saturday, and the tickets are on sale all year. And so you never know who's going to be in the final. so all the rugby followers from around england buy a ticket for that day and when the final comes on you see rugby shirts from all over the country it's like a celebration of people coming together is the world cup becoming that a celebration of people coming together are the yeah you know what teams i'm not sure the prices how real those stories are but you're driving a different audience of people maybe don't care like we would and not like we do that's true so i'm just maybe

6:14Michael Timbs:i'm a grumpy old fart and so i need to just get with the times i i would say this but the times

6:22Elliot:the times have been driven by pricing driven by pricing and i'm not up to date i've just read stuff the stadiums look full they look full of people i wonder who are these people because i

6:34Michael Timbs:yeah i would say there was there were there were obviously a lot of england fans and especially in the kind of i'm guessing england sold section there were a lot of england fans but then throughout the i guess the two main stands at the gillette stadium which is very impressive by the way um there were i would say as many neutrals as there were um england fans and it and ghana fans and so it kind of just yeah it does kill the atmosphere a little bit because they're just they're just not as invested and and as you say clive like it's not uh maybe it's just a price thing it's the fact that on top of the flights and the accommodation then spending at least say six seven hundred pounds on a ticket makes it easier for americans to come which is great because it means they can watch world cup football which not everyone can do and that's an amazing experience in itself so great for them but i think what also makes the the world cup great is seeing all of these nations bring as many fans as possible to a new country and follow their follow their side So I guess it's a double-edged sword.

7:39I will just say in the interest of some balance here, I think there's a unique quality of the England team that there's a big Premier League fandom in America. There's a lot of players people recognize. England is sort of the team that I think most American football fans are interested in. And Boston does have a great Premier League following and football culture in that New England area in general does, right? So I think, unfortunately for England, you're going to get a lot of Americans who want to go see Bakayo Saka and Declan Rice and unfortunately Harry Kane and the players that are out there.

8:16Whereas when you have watched some of the other games, I mean the Argentina game, it's a sea of Argentina shirts and there have been a lot of other supporters, what the Norway fans are doing with the rowing and their supporter section. And I do think you're getting a lot of that passionate, monolithic support for certain teams in certain grounds, but I do think there are teams. England being one of them, Brazil might be another, that have these sort of carnival atmospheres around them and a following that extends beyond their own national team supporters.

8:46Michael Timbs:I think as a final note on this, you both have pointed out correctly. I revoke my… No, I think it's interesting. I don't blame the Americans. It's more… Oh, no, blame the Americans. It's our fault. No, no, no. I think it's… I misplaced my frustration with, I guess, the organization and the fact that fans of the national team can't go. And I misplaced that blame to the nearest American that was near me who was wearing Pulisic top and genuinely shouted... No, that person deserves blame. If you're going to wear a US kit, do not get Christian Pulisic shirts. Come on. So many US kits. And I genuinely, I don't know if he was trolling.

9:28Michael Timbs:I hope he was. And it worked. He genuinely shouted, come on, England. You need to bring Pulisic on. And maybe that I'm guessing it was a joke because he can't be stupid enough to think that he can play for somehow an ally as well as the US. But that really great. Whilst we're like in the throes of this game and like I'm desperate to win this game because we win this game, we win the group. And it's just not a nice thing to hear when you're kind of going through it. I turned around and I was like, oh my God, I'm not just a stupid fan enough to turn around and actually shout at him. But it's the closest I've come in a long time.

10:12Look, at one point in the game, I really thought that they should have brought Jokras on for Kane, but they never did that either. Exactly. All right. We should talk a little bit about the football. Yes, we should. I mean, to be honest, this conversation may be more interesting than football. But Clive, what is your headline from England nil, Donna nil? What's your main takeaway?

10:32Elliot:My main headline? Oh, hang on. I'm just for a bit of fun. Where's Phil Foden? Where's Cole Palmer? Because that's what it does, right? When you don't win a game, then all the people are lying dormant thinking, I want my favorite player to play that's not there. he would have unpicked the lock and I'm thinking oh this is the conversation really I think when you don't win a game it's always who's not there becomes a better player immediately and this game was it was in the post they were very very physical very very strong squeezed the spaces really well and we've all seen his football before we watch it in the Premier League quite regularly normally against Arsenal and we managed to unpick those locks particularly last season turn 14 draws into 7 draws which allowed us to win the league and England had a draw and it happens and it's about who do you want to blame and I think there are lots of things that happen in the game but I do think when people say that about Foden and Palmer etc I think they're forgetting the physicality of the team they were playing against and maybe some of the players that didn't play so well for England were maybe our least physical players because they lost duels and I'm looking at I'm looking at Antti Gordon for example that just got Mullard just got Mullard in his one on ones you know Elliot Anderson who I really really like and had a decent statistical game but he wasn't in control i.e.

12:06Elliot:put him on his ass and put his head into the turf about three or four times and so if you want those players to play you have to recognise and I think Tuchel got it right he picked a strong physical almost an off the ball team to counter them and then brought on the honourable players later on. I think people need to think about that because there's another side to the game. But hey. Yeah. I'm going to give you my headline and people aren't going to like it. Surprise, surprise. England are fine. England are fine. Ghana are a good team. There are good players on that team. Players we know from the Premier League, players that have experienced in the World Cup.

12:44The United States, I think, have we crashed out to Ghana? Or we were grouped by them once, I think, and lost to them in a knockout round, Ghana are good. That's not Uzbekistan, right? That's not a team that's here to just roll over. And they were organized and defended well, and they were very physical in the duels, and they had a good counterattack plan. And they've got Antoine Semenyo, who's an excellent player, who I thought the Ghanaian forwards were better than their English counterparts in defense in space. and that that could have been the story um england are fine though because they're going to beat panama and they're going to top the group uh not panama pardon me um yes panama and they're going to top the group and the issue for england was that they didn't necessarily create much but this is tournament football as well the england goal wasn't go out and entertain and get three points the england goal was don't do something stupid that puts you in a potentially dangerous situation so for me this is a perfectly fine tournament performance but I am going to say this they got a huge huge huge helping hand from the referee because it is a clear penalty and it I mean maybe it's a red card too but it is a penalty obviously Pickford won that's a foul Pickford should get a card for it I don't think it should be a red card because I think there's a covering defender but I think it's a stonewall penalty I have absolutely no idea why it wasn't given and then you're in a world of shit having said that like england also created chances on another day they make this 2-0 i mean harry kane misses a sitter there were a couple other chances that you know i thought were snatched at and that can happen um you know we saw spain draw cape verde and no one's saying spain can't win the tournament anymore and gone are way better than cape verde so so timsey i don't know i mean first of all i do want to ask you do you have it as a penalty because for me i i don't think it's even debatable i think it is a as clear a stonewall penalty as penalties are well as in but there was two right was

14:45Michael Timbs:are you talking about the pickford one i thought it was the konza one the what the not the pick one the pickford one is a foul that some people think should have been a red i think yellow because there's a covering defender but it's the konza one is is a penalty so so uh on that note uh firstly elliot i agree that this it's it's it's okay as a result it's there's no need to panic i think the players said that after the game as well it's like it was a difficult game garner defended well jude bellingham's interview was excellent by the way yeah yeah yeah great and he's always the he always seems to be that that mature head that you actually need who just kind of cuts through the bullshit um which is nice so uh it's it's also a game the uh the friend i went with yesterday said afterwards it's like it's a game where it doesn't really matter how you play it's like just a goal clears all of this stuff where you know we don't we don't play well but a goal relieves you of all of that then it doesn't matter you score around that Kane puts that goal in put that puts that chance in and then suddenly it's like who cares what that performance was but just because we didn't and Ghana were actually a tougher opponent than maybe we thought they were going to be defensively at least then suddenly it's all panic station so uh I don't think there is any need to panic also if we're gonna put in a performance like that which is a bit stale and we are lacking for ideas it's better to be in the knockout it's better to be in the groups than the knockouts because you do that against anyone who's actually very good in the knockouts and we're gonna lose so um i would say yes it was a penalty i couldn't quite see it because i was in the other side i was kind of behind that chance but it didn't look good and it was kind of a running theme of uh that second half where they they did look dangerous on the break um and i think as we grew a lot more frustrated um one because ghana were great defensively their their shape was good and two because we just struggled for ideas everywhere and didn't play well it it there there was there were nerves in the in the stadium and you could kind of feel that um and so yeah i did think it was a penalty like Ghana were great I would say that the ref was all across the board one of the worst I've seen uh at this world cup it was a horrific refereeing performance by a long way got the big calls wrong got all the small calls wrong exactly so and and it wasn't just like I being an Arsenal fan I feel like you know you're we're used to feeling a bit aggrieved like the referee but on the whole I think you probably finished the game ago he was he was probably about right this was like you could see through any sort of bias and just go for either side he was horrific so there were there were so many occasions and Ghana played to it perfectly well and it's what as we as Arsenal fans know with lesser opposition whenever they set up and they're super defensive they're going to use every tactic possible they're going to waste time they're going to make it super difficult they're going to get on our nerves and it's exactly what Ghana did to the point of like actually just kicking the ball away I don't know how if if it was shown on the broadcast in terms of replays or if they cut away but pretty much every stoppage in any time that we got fouled and we did get fouled a lot as you would expect but then every single time it would be like balls kicked away there would be the amount of time wasting was horrendous and that's not to say Ghana shouldn't do that but it's because it's not their responsibility it's the referee's responsibility to just make sure that for both sides like there's not that much uh time wasting and I think even just things like that any any sort of measure of like control of a get he just didn't have he didn't control the game whatsoever um and I think that played into just the game we saw like an English team that grew so much more frustrated as the game went on because suddenly there's a lot more time wasting plus they're not maybe getting some decisions they would feel like they would and then Ghana uh don't get two huge decisions that that they should have as well so um yeah that as well I mean I'm happy to roll into my headline as well uh yeah real quick let me just get get Clive's thought on that I mean Clive you have it as penalty

19:00Elliot:no you're good yeah the penalty right but I actually thought it was offside and build up That's what I thought they gave, but they didn't. I thought, wow, we've got a way one there. I think with referees, I'm watching the football in a lovely sort of community way. The global community is coming together and seeing all these different fans and different thought processes about the game. It's lovely because the real tournament hasn't started yet, right? It'll start and the knockouts come along, and then we're all going to get really, really tasty about what we're seeing. But as this global community comes together, we have to remember that it's a global community of referees coming together, and they're bringing their own cultural spin on the game how they see the game and tim do you had me at the word interruption mate it's just like the game is so staccato now this is a worry when i'm thinking about premier league i found the premier league referees i'm looking at this as a game what we're watching it's not the game i'm used to watching so premier league games is one thing european games is another thing win temperate league and this is something else where we are literally trying to find 10 minutes of consistent football and you notice some of the free kicks of particular throws in the free kicks from france and england they try to put the ball down quickly and go because they're trying to create momentums that are being taken away by the event management of the referees and players that allow to happen because each individual country has got their goals they want to achieve to qualify and so we're sitting there at the paying customer some closer to the actual action than others and it's not what i'm used to seeing but I'm cool with it because it will change when it gets to the crunch last 32, 16, last 8 then we're going to see something much more akin to what we used to see Alright, well what's your headline Timsey?

20:42Michael Timbs:My headline would be and I know Elliot we've spoken about this quite a lot the hydration break is and has ruined football is ruining football and has ruined football so I would say just off the back of that Clive I totally agree that it's so staccato now, it's so interrupted. And both hydration breaks yesterday were abysmal in terms of just the flow of the game. What's your first time experiencing it out of ground too? It is horrendous. It's the worst thing I've seen. Genuinely, I think it's the worst thing to happen to football in a decade over. VAR doesn't even touch the sides of hydration breaks.

21:25Michael Timbs:because VAR now is to a point where like there's still a few occasions where look this is too long it's taken three four minutes fine but ultimately it's for the betterment of the game where you want more accurate additions fine this is this is nothing to do with any sort of decision make it doesn't help anyone apart from what it's introduced for in domestic football at times when it is outrageously hot because it's for the safety of the players and totally makes sense but this is it was it was 20 degrees 19 degrees and pissing it down right and you're going going you need two hydration breaks i would also say that this is a i hope that i would have the same opinion and others would even if england say did win and there wasn't this kind of slight air of panic that people would still reflect on the game like okay it was a good win fine but by the way how ruinous was this the hydration breaks and the the refereeing because it it it exacerbates a poor refereeing performance where now suddenly he's not picking up on things that are delaying the game and just like the kind of gamesmanship that happens he didn't have his finger on the pulse on that and then on top of that you have hydration breaks which are scheduled breaks for they say it's three minutes it's not it's at least four and a half wow because even when they announce the the oh there's so many wrong things i'm so i'm usually such a positive person i like to feel like i'm a very positive person in my life and this is like unavoidably negative so the the two hydration breaks both yesterday happened at just two minutes after well one passage of play after a two or three minute break because of an injury and a foul so the both times there was a foul one of the players i don't know i think one was maybe a Ghanaian player got injured and then the the other hydration break an England player got injured and so the players were down for it was like a clash of heads or something and then the players were down so then the the rest of the players went to the sideline got some drinks and then walked back onto the pitch but then waited for another 30 seconds for a minute whilst the the uh the medics were on and then it was at the exact moment the hydration break should have been which is at 22 minutes 23 minutes and then on in the second half at 60 whatever it is 67 minutes both of them happened at that time so then but you're not allowed to roll straight into a hydration break because you need your your ad spots so then we replace restart play the play goes on without going out for another like 90 seconds so then it's a delayed hybridation break and then you have the official break for three minutes which only starts really when they like start to get towards the end of the pitch so then they're all strolling to to go to the sideline and then they have the break and then it comes back and then even then it's still waiting to to restart and bearing in mind and this is why it's ruined i think personally like the genuinely like the beautiful game of just this it's 45 minutes of just flow whatever is just whatever dynamic the game has and that you have maybe this obviously plays into like the the team that is maybe defending and hanging on trying to slow the game which i totally get and which is what we maybe try to do against atletico so like it happens but then for a team on the other side like it just it totally disrupts the game where you're on tenterhooks and then you have to wait for four minutes in the middle of the half and then going like well hope i guess i hope that we come back and you know there's a different the dynamism that we can bring a post hydration break but it's like it's it's horrendous for the for the fan inside the stadium i think it is it's terrible because they also blast out music it's very surreal actually um that midway through the first half and midway through the second half you can hear that bulletproof song that the americans love so much and blasted over the state as they're walking back from the sideline to like their positions what is going on yeah well i i think we have at this point thoroughly covered the hydration yeah i won't mention it anymore throughout i think they're covered i i do want to say i agree i think look if you're going to defend and you're going to defend for 90 minutes the challenge is both physical and mental Can you stay organized?

25:56Can you follow every ball? Can every little bouncing ball in your box be defended? And when you get that extra break and you can, because Clive and I will say this sometimes, right? In games, what are you trying to do? Break it up into 15 minutes into five minutes in your mind, right? Like for the next five minutes, let's try to keep it out for the next 10 minutes. We're going to write and this gives you a natural way to do that. I'll just present one other perspective because I thought it was interesting. Patrick Cavalier, who is a listener, got in touch by email to say in a lot of the global South and especially South America, hydration breaks have been a part of football for a while now.

26:23they are a regular part of football and that a lot of people in the global south would say their football has not been destroyed and is still a beautiful game so i i think okay that's interesting it's a different no well i only want to raise that perspective because i'm sure that we have listeners from all over the world who want to hear those different perspectives i will confess that for me i think it changes the tactical nature of what the game is now some people might say it can still be a beautiful game but it does change the game yeah it changes the soul of the game

26:50Elliot:for anyone that's played one of the biggest challenges of football is you get tired you get tired and you do things under physical i don't need to play football to get tired the last five years of my career every minute was a challenge right then i go you get tired and uh in these games now everyone's really fit everyone's really tactically astute and you're not getting as tired and the better players are sharper under under pressure and it's just it's leveling the

27:17Michael Timbs:playing field I'm afraid it really is yeah I think I think maybe the commercialization of it kind of maybe plays into the fact that I don't I don't like it maybe yeah of course like and even when it happens during the domestic season when it is very hot and stuff like I get it and like I don't care one bit like totally get it well to your point Timsey I don't here's the thing you can hate it and think it's a naked cash grab which by the way I do think it is but set that aside whether you hate it or not you must accept it changes football it changes how football is played and coached and managed and that does change the game whether you think it changes it for better or worse is notwithstanding it changes it i think it it helps in my mind the team that is under the cosh right i think that team benefits obviously more than the team that is on top um you often hear they'll be desperate to get to halftime now well now it's they'll be desperate to get to the hydration break right so it's just a smaller chunk of game the up to survive um we're a bit light on football analysis here i have to confess because we've talked we've talked shirts we've talked hydration break uh no no no not not your fault timsey uh we we've talked about refereeing i do want to get some some of the the uh hashtag football in here so clive i will uh we'll turn it over to you do you have a stock rising in this game is there someone you want to call out for praise?

28:38I feel there's got to be someone, surely.

28:40Elliot:Who did I perform that did I enjoy?

28:46Elliot:Look, I don't think it was one of those games for me. I did enjoy Mark Gay's performance when he came back in. I didn't think he was... I also thought he was part of the problem, but I felt better with him there, and I thought I understood why the manager wanted physical players in the back line to make sure they focus against the counter attack i was looking when we started the podcast earlier on i'm looking at how we played and mate mark gay had over 140 touches i believe and that tells you where the game was being played and so even though i enjoyed performance i also think the ball speed we had in the game was really really slow and that was the thing that really caught us out a little bit and we were a little bit conservative in our in our just speed of ball and i know i've used this before earlier that phrase ball speed but it's so important it gives people an extra yard to cut against the grain to use the pace of the border rise of their feet to chop the other direction and create an imbalance which then forces someone else to jump out when someone else jumps out then you can go into behind them and you can create space between the lines when the ball's slow everyone arrives at the same time so what happens the only tunnel you have to play is the tunnel that where the balls come from and it goes back and it goes back and around and when it goes back around if you're sitting in your block you can see you can see you can read the patterns you know exactly where it's going and so what do players do the players say well i'm going to stand inside and they stand inside the block and they mark themselves and then when they mark themselves they don't get the ball and we we look at our mop and we look at our sofa score we say how many touches and and we go like that and a lot of it starts on the back and although i enjoyed great performance because i thought it was better than stones i also think it's a massive critique with our back players, James as well, Konza as well.

30:32Elliot:Massive load of touches without any incision, without any go-for, without any drive. And it's a big part of what happened in this game. And I bring it back to Arsenal quickly. And we are so fortunate to have defenders that punch that ball like Saliba, punch it. Timber gets it, rolls in and fires through and creates this chaos in the lines further up. I think England had a team of off-the-ball players to defend against something they feared and they probably got a result they were okay with. And so, yeah, I don't know if that's a good use of a stock riding. But I just think I wanted to get the tactical side out.

31:10I'll do mine super quick. I'll just say the Ghanaian back four. I think they deserve credit. And Jude Bellingham did a great job. When he got man of the match, he said, I don't deserve it. Give it to one of their defenders. They defended brilliantly. You look at that back line. Sanaya plays for Oxair. Ajete plays for Wolfsburg Opoku plays for Basikir I guess in the Turkish league and then Mensah plays for Augsair sorry by the way not a player who we would particularly know from our club football so I thought they were great, I thought they were organized they headed things clear they cleared their box, they were strong in the duel they were very aggressive in general Ghana I thought in the duels They were, I mean, Rice got knocked off the ball.

31:55Ezza came on, got knocked off the ball. That almost led to the penalty. I mean, it led to what should have been the penalty. They were going shoulder to shoulder and really used their power and their strength and their physicality well in this game. And they were not bullied by the England team physically. And I think if you're going to defend for 90 minutes, one of the things you've got to do, you can't just sit back. You have to win some duels. And I thought they were very front-footed with the way they dueled and they were effective in that, helped them see the game out. So I'd give them a stock rising.

32:21What about you, Timsy?

32:22Michael Timbs:yeah I'm I'm gonna yeah I'm allowed to switch games for my stock rising uh we're gonna do the other games quickly so stay with England for now so I know there's gonna be a bit of a longer one I apologize perfect don't worry uh yeah so stock rising I would say uh I would say Ghana in general um I would also say the England subs I would I would uh just uh put an asterisk on that and say that they just came too late. I think everything that's been said has been exactly right. I think we were out of ideas and I think the defence struggled. I also think because they were a little bit of a victim of the system as well, where apart from maybe the first 10, 15 minutes when Nonny had a bit of joy, but Gordon was anonymous, didn't offer anything.

33:09Michael Timbs:So I actually felt quite bad for Jed Spence. And I think maybe if we started, but basically I think we set up to counteract the physical, how physical Garner were. And they were super difficult and rugged. And I think we maybe overestimated that and didn't put enough emphasis on the fact that they didn't plan to dominate us and actually dominate the ball. It was more that they wanted to set up and just be super difficult to break down, which they were. And so we could have not have had, for example, Jed Spence, who I think had a decent game, but I think we could have started with O 'Reilly, for example.

33:49Michael Timbs:And when he came on, which is, this is like my stock rising, is that it immediately changed the way we attacked. We looked a lot freer. Even Rashford came on and he didn't do too much. And I think a few of his crosses were poor, but even then it was just, there was a different feel to that left-hand side, which for the most part was totally ineffective for the first 60 minutes. And then Nonny, again, does his Nonny thing where he's actually super direct and difficult to defend against, but equally... Defends himself brilliantly. Defends himself, but did cause some trouble. And actually, genuinely in the first half, people were really excited when he got the ball.

34:27Michael Timbs:Ultimately to be a bit disappointed, but the fact that he got the ball in far better spaces, he also then attacked and took the defender on and didn't do too much. But at least it was just like, there was something there. Kane, relatively anonymous. Jude, to be fair to him, and he always does this he never shies away like he didn't have his best game like like the whole of the england team but at least like he just he's just always there he never he never shies away from the the possibility or like or showing for the ball so he i always think he um he he puts himself in in he doesn't let games pass him by he doesn't yeah look i wonder if if tuchel knew that Garner were going to have 21 % of the ball.

35:13I think he picks a different lineup. I think if he knows that... That was clear very early on though.

35:19Michael Timbs:Which is why the subs were too late. I agree. It should have been two or three subs at halftime.

35:25Elliot:He knew what he was going to face. I think where he got caught, and he said it, and the system manager said it, obviously I watched it and I got the commentary. He said that Garner were a lot deeper than they expected. And I think that's where he got caught out i think he thought he could fly down the sides like he did against croatia and get in behind a little bit more and they took that away they took harry kane away by man marking him and then it became a different game and the team that ended the game we all wish would have started the game because they're stood in the pockets they were more physical inside we didn't need a second midfield if you know i mean you can get an sa in there my start phone is going to be the double pivot Clive you know I hate the double pivot we don't play double pivot we don't but you don't need Anderson and Rice against the team that's got 21 % of the ball you don't know that well Rice was probably our best player yeah but you don't need both of them yeah on this game but yeah I agree you don't but you don't know that until the game starts I get it I get it that's what I'm saying