Young Guns Shine but Isak Steals Headlines

0:24Hello and welcome to the Arsenal Vision Postman Podcast with me your host Tim Stillman stepping up the third choice that's right because Elliot is having the time of his life in Singapore of course watching Arsenal following Arsenal and having a great time out there not jealous at all Phil Costa was going to present this episode but he's in his sickbed at the moment so we wish Phil all the best and that being the case your third choice your plan C your Ollie Watkins stepping up here to present this episode Tim Stillman however we do actually have some football to talk about because that's right Arsenal played a game in Singapore on Wednesday lunchtime I think yeah it was Wednesday lunchtime kids school holidays all of that just fried my brain in terms of like what day it actually is and to that end apologies if at my end you do hear some children at some point because mine is in the house and next doors are in the house because it's school holidays so you may hear laughing screaming all of the above at some point during the episode uh but here to talk with me about the ac milan game and a little bit of transfer stuff too we've got clive palmer clive how are you hello hello i had a brief chat with elliot this morning and i can confirm he's having the time of his life whenever i go away with elliot and andrew we end up walking miles right until my i need a hip replacement oh but no when i'm not there yes they're by the pool lying down relaxing i mean are they taking a piss i mean they really are and so um so yeah hope this podcast mate it needs to go well yeah definitely i have uh i have a friend out there as well who i go to away games with and um he was kind of messaging us during the game and he said he nearly didn't stay for the penalties at the end because essentially it was so hot in the stadium he was like it looks like he's like all i've done is sit here and it looks like I've jumped in the pool.

2:22So he was a bit like, I'm questioning whether, because the roof was closed and I think he was at the top of the stadium and he was just like, it was literally like sitting in the greenhouse. So, you know, good workout for the players, I'm sure. They do go away for warm weather stuff, don't they? So, you know, it probably does help. But we are going to talk about the AC Milan game, Clive, presently. However, obviously it's July. things are really picking up on the transfer stuff I think across the league and we're starting to see some dominoes and I think we're about to see the next round of dominoes really because there was a story I mean there were stories over the weekend Alexander Azak didn't play for Newcastle against Celtic and Eddie Howe didn't really cover that up said his brain wasn't in it and their Newcastle briefed that Azak was not going to Singapore because of a slight thigh problem I think if you've got a slight thigh problem you probably fly out to where your club doctors are so that wasn't a very good excuse and I think we you know we were all waiting for a few minutes later stories to drop about Isaac wanting to leave Newcastle before we take the Arsenal angle of that Clive because I think there is an Arsenal angle both about you know our own interest in the player in the past and you know him potentially maybe strengthening a serious rival but what do you make of this story because to me i cannot get my head around why isak is doing this now the week where the two clubs who would fall over each other to buy him have bought strikers there was the story that liverpool were kind of interested and then they seemed to pivot very quickly to eketike which made most of us think i think that there was there was just no chance of getting isak but now there seems to be some real kind of agitation there behind the scenes what before we go into the arsenal angle what do you make of the story overall there's a few threads to put on here um i think if you're izak and you don't want to sign a new contract or maybe you do but you want to sign it on your terms right so he wants to go into a 300 club doesn't he into that level of money if you're gonna put me out there as 150 million pound player then you have to pay me appropriately That's what I thought this was all about initially.

4:38I thought he's trying to get a better contract with a similar length of time and probably an exit in next summer to other clubs because everyone seems to have bought their strikers. We'll include Chelsea in that. They bought Jao Pedro and Leon Delap as well. Nicholas Jackson may end up at Manchester United for all we know as we record. But he can move on there. So Chelsea look in good shape. Obviously Arsenal are finally about to buy a striker for the first time since Frank Stapleton. That's what it feels like. And so now we're moving forward with that. And so you're looking around. City have got their man, obviously.

5:15And so you're looking around thinking, okay, as your market has disappeared. But Liverpool are interesting because Liverpool have potential sales. And because they're Liverpool, they always seem to get the top dollar. So they could sell Harvey Elliott for 40 million, even though they had about three Premier League starts last year. and he's done well in the under-21s and won that. So he's been a shop window this summer. Diaz could go to Bayern Munich for like€75 million, something like that, a good number for a 28-year-old. And Darwin Nunes, what if Saudi come in and say, we're going to pay you€50,€60 million for him?

5:51Suddenly,€120-ish,€130, it's achievable, isn't it? If you want to do it, it's achievable. Now, you could say they've just bought a centre-force so why would they buy another centre forward? Is Etikike more flexible to play in the wide areas? In his first year, as he develops his body, he could do. So you could see Liverpool get funds. You could see Arsenal get funds if they really wanted to, particularly by moving left-handed side players away. But I actually like the approach what Arsenal have done to go for the centre forward they have. If they bring in the one extra player that we all sort of want, you can see, well, actually, rather than have one big player they have to play a lot of games to justify the cost you get a center forward and an attacking mid player that can play in wide areas can offer you much more flexibility we know the name do i need to mention it uh we know the name that we all like that that suits me but there is a little bit of me thinking that bloat is that really is on his top game he really is the one i was talking to somebody a friend of both files online today saying this is a bit infuriating isn't it and i I said to him, I'm about to talk to Tim now, and I'm going to come up with a tactical reason why he's at wouldn't work for Arsenal.

7:08But I'm struggling. I'm struggling. He's a croc. He's a croc. He'll be injured. That's one of the reasons. That's one of them. He'll be injured. As soon as he goes into our pressing schemes, he'll probably break down. We wouldn't see him for six months. I'm trying to justify it, but we'd all like the man, wouldn't we? We'd all like the man. But we are who we are, right? So let's see what happens. I'm still happy with what we've done so far and what we could potentially do. yeah I think that's where a lot of people probably rest with Arsenal's transfer window full stop at the moment where I think the consensus if I try and separate out the extreme ends of the spectrum is kind of so far so good but we'd really like to see maybe that kind of good trossard sale and then bring in like an Eze or a Rodrigo or something like that to really you know put the kind of put the cherry on the cake because i think most people's feelings and i think this is about correct that we've we've improved the depth you know last season there was raheem sterling you don't have to do an awful lot to upgrade on that i don't think and gabriel jesus wasn't there and isn't going to be there that's an empty body i think we've done something similar in defense right with mascara that's replacing tommy asu and empty body as it were so you know we we've improved the depth and you know with Madueke as well that's a bit of an unknown but like Madueke is replacing Sterling like he's not going to have to do much to improve on that but then there's the question have we really pushed the level there which I think is a very fair question and a lot of people kind of thinking maybe if we say to Trossard you've been brilliant what a great signing you've been off you go kind of thing and now we'll get you know we'll get an Azaria Rodrigo, that tends to be where people are.

8:57But I guess, Clive, do you think, particularly with the way the Giocares negotiation dragged out, and I think we should caveat this and say that whatever we're aware of with Izak, it didn't start last week. These things never do. And I'm pretty sure that Berta, that Liverpool, everyone would have known about this for ages, right? Just because it's just come out now. doesn't mean that it's only just started now where are you perhaps on the idea that maybe arsenal should you know maybe rolled out the big potatoes on the poker table and maybe just like put geocres off to the side and said actually we could really get the like the grade a option that we really want in in isak yeah it's a tough decision to make right because when you're bringing on left backs in the Champions League quarterfinals at home because you've not got enough wide areas and not enough depth in attack because you've had injuries, then we forget.

9:59We're trying to fix that problem. We're trying to have a much more rounded squad for the 63 games we're going to play this year, I'm guessing. And you just can't have those single points any longer. I'm okay with the approach if we get that final as a player, Tim. I really like what we've done. But we've come up with a number of squad solutions. and to fill gaps that were natural and upgrade where possible and really push us forward stylistically. And in Supermandy, for example, bringing somebody in prime age to fill a pivotal role in the team. So I like what we've done. But when you're watching a team and you become very familiar with the players very, very quickly, it's really terrible.

10:43Football's such a transient game now. You get familiar with players, class players. Well, I've seen him before. I'm bored of him. I want somebody else, right? If you don't say it out loud, you say it to yourself. So then that player does something good. Oh, he's a good player. He's back. So we're looking for a bit of a freshness there. And I think there is opportunity to add that extra player. I think it's about how you feel about this. Isaac, on his day, we've seen him shake Saliba, shake Gabriel, and shake Van Dyke and stick it on top of Liverpool's net as well. So this guy, when he wants to do it, is the best in the business you know it feels like off the pitch he's not the best in the business because he hasn't got himself the right level of contract that allows him the flexibility to own his career so now he's having to kick off you know and so interesting one mate see what happens i have to be comfortable with our work right so there's no doubt also were spoken to him and decided maybe it can't work for us.

11:47We have to accept that. It can't work for us, these level of numbers. Newcastle are not going to be nice with Arsenal, are they? That is the last place they want to sell him to. We all know that. And so we just have to... It's all assumptions here and speculation, so please don't take it as gospel because I don't know. But we just have to be confident in the direction that we're taking, as long as we fully take it. And I'm pleased to see the players that we've got are not just squad solutions, but they add to who we are from an identity point of view and we really add to our game plan and game model.

12:19So if we're going to be this team then let's be it and let's be with the right level of depth and quality and let's not get back to Kieran Tierney coming on a left wing against Real Madrid and the season before we have the Zach Swansons on our bench for three months towards the end of the season. And that's what we're trying to get away from really to move forward because the expectations are only going up. yeah definitely and usually Clive I kind of um because I'm old and getting bitter and out of touch with um the youth I I usually like feel very kind of superior and dismissive of people who worry about other teams transfers and you know I think that I think there is particularly on social media which which I'd say definitely the median age is quite a bit younger than me and sometimes i have to remember that i see some of the takes um but you know usually i'd just be like oh this is like people think of transfers as content and it's new toys and stuff like that and you know it's it's envy and it's oh they bought this player however i think if i i can i can certainly see even if i i can't get transfer anxiety i just can't i'm not saying it's wrong to have it because I know how important it is Man City didn't didn't win loads of league titles because they didn't care about the transfer market because they bought loads of good players so I know how important it is personally I can't it might be a generational thing I can't get to the emotional stage with it and I kind of feel like that's a problem with me because I should because it's important however you know I I can certainly see why people would be angsty about Liverpool potentially buying Isaac, particularly when they've kind of gone for Verts.

14:10Sorry, they've got Verts, they've got Eketike in the bag there. To your point, I think that they're really future-proofing now in terms of Mo Salah not being there forever. I think also it's probably too much to say they made mistakes, but I don't think they replaced Mane and Firmino well, and that's why Luis Diaz and Nunez are up for sale because basically they just didn't quite do it. And obviously there is the much more tragic context around Diogo Jota as well, which is glib as it is to say, giving them another forward to replace. However, and also I think one of the things we don't do as fans as well is, again, this really sounds like opium, but the reason Liverpool have got some of the room to do this is because they basically didn't do very much last summer.

15:02So sometimes those quiet transfer windows help you in future transfer windows. However, to be fair, Arsenal had a couple of those themselves in the kind of promise of Jam tomorrow. So where are you on the angst levels about potentially Isak going and really strengthening the team that won the league last season? It could easily happen. And if you think, look at the top three teams, and they are separating, in my opinion, from the rest of the league. City done 200 million in January. you know just bang done that some of them were young but some of them were very young high potential players and they've done they've done a bit more in the summer as well Liverpool like us last year had a pretty quiet window they just bought Kiesa I believe and the goalkeeper came in and went back out on loan so he's now back in the squad now and we had a fairly quiet quietish window I think Mourinho, Califiori that type of window and obviously Sterling coming in so we didn't really change our face hence we looked a little bit stale potentially you know and people saying could we use those those funds in a better way we had sales as well so we didn't spend a lot remember you said you said this really really well in a previous pod about there being like a psr effect and maybe and it was for all of us not just for for arsenal you know and and looks as though the top three have said right let's go we're we're in our three-year cycle let's go let's go and do our do our work and so we have to say we have to be happy with ours or not liverpool are a good side but you know They also have issues in defence, Tim.

16:32They have a massive, massive Singaporean failure with Virgil Van Dijk. Canate's in the last year of his contract and edging potentially out the window. They need a third centre back. They get Mark Gay, it makes a lot of sense. He can play both sides, smart player, particularly in possession. Their fullbacks look really good on paper. They're quite small. They're not physical. They're not physical at all. It's interesting what they do in those spaces, and that's vulnerabilities that other teams will become. But defensively, they've got work to do. Offensively, you've got to sit behind the set. They all get all those players in because once they're going forward, it's going to be a tough team to stop.

17:12Look at Man City. Again, they've got their structures in place, added more carriers. They've got a different coaching team in place. It's interesting to see what they do. I think they're going to look at fullbacks in a much more offensive way like Liverpool have done. But they still can't defend a transition. they still give up too many chances and so you have to be confident and comfortable with what we're doing you know good thing is we're doing something because the previous podcast we've done into the January window and the summer window was we didn't quite do enough you know and this time I think we're doing something and it feels like enough if we potentially buy seven players I don't think any of a thought that could have happened we all like that number but to see it come to is actually a surprise to me anyway yeah definitely i think if i think of a transfer window could be similar i think in 2014 we did like we did some good squad build it like we got well back we got callum chambers i think david espina came in that summer so like we upgraded the quality of the squad player but we got alexis sanchez as well and that was that was kind of the bottom line i think we were going to come to this at the end but since we're loosely on the subject i did want to pick up on something michael arteta said maybe i think it was his pre-match press conference about transfers you said there the arsenal on course bringing six players already now again some of that is kind of really at the he was talking about the tears and i'll get your view on that as well and how in his mind and this is music to my ears he sees those as more fluid this coming season.

18:52And it really sounds to, I mean, this shouldn't be a surprise. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. But I read Declan Rice's interview as well with some of the guys out there in the huddle, and he was talking about, like, look, last season, we weren't able to rotate. You know, we were 70 % fit. We can't have that happen again. But one of the things he said as well was Arteta was still saying we're very short on numbers. And I mean, in pure numbers, we are not. In fact, I think we're kind of sailing close to the wind, maybe on the 25 squad limit. Obviously, I still think there's players who are going to go.

19:31But what did you make, first of all, of that, you know, we're very sure, like surely he means quality rather than depth. But also, do you think he was taking Giocares and Mosquera into that equation or not? or what what did you make of that comment in particular and maybe also his his comments about um you know they're being less defined first second and third tiers in the squad now yeah i i like the fact that we now seem to have quality players that can set in for each other and this week's friendly i thought was very instructive for that we just look at the two goalkeepers you didn't blink really did you i mean if you close your eyes you wouldn't have even changed, right?

20:11Because they've got very similar stylistically what they do on the ball and how they play. So straight away then, we've gone away from the disparities between, say, Ramsdale and Raya, and obviously Neto last season, right? So we now have a style of goalkeeper that we can play. And I don't think it's a problem for us if something was to happen. I used to worry when David Rhea used to go in for a challenge last season, you know? And that's where we were, you know? William Saliba, I mean, watching him play, It's like, oh, crikey, can we get him signed up? You know, seriously. If you get all these signings, we're going to need something to moan about.

20:47The next thing is going to be Sleeper and Saka getting them signed up. That's going to be the next thing. And so the way he's moving across the pitch and he's first friendly, he's just ridiculous. You just remind yourself of how good he is. When a player's that good, you are so tempted just to play them all the time. But it's just not fair on them. Sometimes what we don't realize is that they're on the team sheet, but they're not in condition to play. and it's quite interesting you and Timber not in condition to play at the moment because he's injured look at Ben White now Tim you watch games like I do watching Ben White in this friendly is the Ben White we used to see you know that's mechanically back together again in the best of shape up and down that line we found a player again so we lost him last season from when he went for his operation that is a new player so having players on the pitch doesn't mean they're in condition to win and that word condition is really important because it's clear to me there are a number of players in our squad that may have been playing but they were not in condition to reach their top level and that's hard for the players they get judged by all of us tens of millions of us that judge them on what they've done on that day and if they're on the pitch they're fit to play in our minds but they're not always fit to play watching Declan Rice in the Fed again watching him storm troop that pitch remember last year we had the foot injury the toe injury the first phase of the season he was being substituted in the first year we never saw him substituted in games in his first season not ever he went up against spurs and we drew the game and but now we're talking about a player that literally was playing half injured we could see that so football needs to change we need to change i still worry about our the players are better players and by that i mean sack and sleep in particular and how they're so important to how we play i worry about that still and i think we need to think about that as we are buying the new players and i think we've got a couple of fours that come in that could really offer that level of character and personality to really make us think actually we don't always have to tilt to the right all the time yeah definitely even like uh yeah even having less of a dependence on players in game, you know, so they don't have to do so much.

23:05Like a Kai Havertz, like a Pakaio Saka, I think those two guys in particular take a lot of the, just the pure physical toll. Actually, it's not, I mean, the minutes in the legs are significant, but also when you're active for all of those 90 minutes, especially a player like Kai Havertz, who's just involved, essentially playing two positions at once. I definitely think going easier on a player like him, And I think you're right. I think we saw some really interesting kind of things here. I was listening to the commentary on Arsenal.com and Adrian Clarke was on. CoCom should say Adrian's actually launched his own YouTube channel this summer and I watched his video about this game.

23:46Actually, I really recommend it. I think when Adrian used to do the breakdown on Arsenal.com, which we don't really see anymore, I think we lost one of the best pieces of Arsenal content out there. So I'm really glad to see he's doing his own YouTube channel. So yeah, I was kind of listening to his commentary and he was talking about like every preseason, like you find something out and that's the kind of fun of these games. And we talk about that a lot. Like what's the next thing? What's the evolution? What's the little trial that we're doing here that we may or may not see because you can try things and decide that they don't work.

24:20But for me, Clive, actually, before we get into the nuts and bolts, I'm just going to ask for an overall view of this game for you as a test for Arsenal, because I'll tell you what my emotional feeling was about it. Well, it's more related to the spectacle of the game, right? So, I mean, it was slightly disappointing to see such a low crowd, I think. And I think some of the promoters for these really have to review ticket pricing, for example. So I said a friend of mine was there. He paid the equivalent of about 70 quid to be in the back of the upper tier. So the pricing is really prohibitive.

25:02And I think we've really seen that on a lot of these tours and a lot of destinations. I do understand the next games are a weekend and you've probably got two Premier League teams. So spectacle-wise, slightly disappointing, maybe the way promoters have managed it. I don't know. but I tell you what, Clive, do you remember when we played AC Milan in the 1995 Super Cup final? No, I don't go and tell me. Well, so we played a suit. We played them in the suit because we won the cup winners cup and they won the European cup. We did a two legged tie and actually in the second leg at Highbury, Paul Merson made his comeback.

25:44But they beat us two nil on aggregate and it could have been 10. but basically in the first leg in the San Siro, they scored twice in the first 25 minutes, and they just went, ha-ha, we've got Maldini and Beresi back there. This game, you could have 10 legs and you're not scoring. And at that point, AC Milan were just from a different bloody planet. I went to that second leg at Highbury, and it was nil-nil, and they were in second gear. They were jogging because they knew their defence could hold us, and they were like, even if you score, we've got Boban up there. He'll probably smack one in from 30 yards.

26:23You know, that like that Milan team, Capello's Milan, is one of the best club teams ever. Obviously, Origio Tzaki had them before. And I was a bit sad, Clive, because I thought, I know like it's the beginning of pre-season and they had some players out. I thought they were crap. I thought they were absolute crap. but in one respect it was probably a good warm-up for Arsenal because they sat in their penalty area for the whole game and tried not to lose 3-0 or 4-0 basically. That's what they were doing. I don't know how useful preparation that is for their season ahead. For us it probably was quite useful because deep blocks, that's what we're going to come up against a lot and that's what we struggled with last season.

27:08It's a friendly and all of that but I did feel a bit sad that it was like we're playing AC Milan and they look like they'd get relegated from the Premier League and that's that's probably a generational thing as well but what was your overall impression of the game yeah with these pre-season games I always try to look at what the coaching message is because they would have had their lessons learned meeting and this is what we're going to do technically and this is what we're going to emphasize so once you get a chance to see players and you have to remember it's pre-season some of this is non-contact and people are just not being aggressive in the pressing all the time they drop into spaces and have a little rest do you know what I mean then they go again there's a little bit banchy on occasions and it was hot it was very hot and you can see people when they're taking cross field passes they were like banging them hard you know and you can always tell that players have maybe trained in the day and this is their second bit of load you have to remember they don't have quite the touch and feeling they normally would do you see Ethan bang a pass out about 10 yards over someone's head and you know you just see things like that so you just dismiss that stuff just dismiss it but what i did see him was a little bit more directness in transition so once the ball turned over then have a look at people around and see their first movement is it to come to the ball or is it to sprint away and I saw this a few times people sprinting away and that pleased me because regardless of the personnel I think we need to do that more I think we've become a team that's really when we win it we have three passes then we go the reason for that we can get into our rest defense into our attacking shape which we're comfortable with in case we lose the ball again we can get it back again I'm fine with it mate it's got loads and loads of points but we want to score more goals we maybe have to be a little bit less you know risk averse and when we see it go you see our tetras talk about opportunities for kai to get the ball after in the game we didn't get it a couple of times i'm really pleased to see that because we know from seeing in the end where we can see everything even though we see so many runs that are just missed just just just missed and it's my one critique really we got players that don't no longer running into spaces out to win because no you're not going to get it we have to be brave about that first pass out so i'm pleased to see that i do think though i don't want to go into a bit more detail of the game but this time it's in my head tim and i gotta get it out it's in there i gotta get out so to see us play the way we played and it was really really good we take things for granted around control territory how that happens it doesn't just happen you've got to be a good side to get a team back with it they don't want to be they don't want to be there they're forced to go back there because they can't control the ball they can't get their plus ones they can't manage those when we when we're in a bit of trouble we've got someone else available once they start running around the first thing you do well we can't get the ball so what we do is we'll drop and we'll hold and we push them back we push them back that's something that we do to almost every single team we play now we do that and that's fantastic structures and coaching but what i noticed is around the difference between our right and left.

30:22Now our left-handed side players, Martinelli and Trussell, they're good players. They're good players. And then I look at Asaka and I think, well, he's a very good player. So what does he have apart from being our best player? So he has a character and personality and body position to receive the ball and always be available to receive it. When I look at the left-hand side, i feel we don't have the same offensive character and presence and we're not talking about the ability of the player because they have different abilities i don't think they have the same offensive presence that forces players will always give you the ball i call it they give it to you for their win bonus who'd have given it for the win bonus they give it to saka for their win bonus it's just you would do that wouldn't you you'd feed him you'd overfeed him if we had player on the left-hand side that says you've got to give it to me because my offensive character and instincts and what i do demand the ball so you do that with your movement or you do that with how you want to receive and your strength to hold people off and i don't think i think we look quite young on our left and i think we look really mature on our right if we fix that i think we're gonna have an unbelievable season because then we have diversity about how we go where we go and we'll feel confident going to somebody because you know we're going to retain it and keep it in a way and things can happen off that side i think it's a big sometimes we don't see something for a while it becomes clear we all know as arsehole fans that our right side is better than our left but why is that don't think about the player why is it think about what they transmit to you do they transmit admit to you i get it in here and something's going to happen or do we hope something's going to happen and i if we feel that what do you think the players feel so why do you think they go to the side where they think something's going to happen to you see what i mean and within 10 minutes that game you see ben white running you see even taking it in you see saka doing his bits you're thinking well we're our right size tip top but we're only 10 minutes in the pre-season game You see what I mean?

32:33The character and their ability to show what they're doing in such a defined way, you almost have to give them the ball. We need more of that on the left-hand side. I think we're far more youthful and we lack a bit of offensive stature. Does that make sense to me? Am I getting the right words? You're better at words than me. Yeah, definitely. And I think the two attackers that we have brought in are definitely a look to solve that a little bit. because Maduecki, for better and for worse, I think, has that give me the ball type thing. And I'm going to go every single time. I think Giocares certainly does that.

33:12And I think that's what I was getting at in the last kind of episode where I talked about players that potentially push or challenge the no dickheads rule. Absolutely. If you want a more tortured analogy, it made me think, do you ever have with your wife or whatever, when someone like from the school or something and it's about your child there was talk to your wife right there was there was assumed talk to mom don't talk to dad talk to mom and and that's kind of what arsenal have got like with saka it's just like talk to mom mom will sort out mom will know mom will know mom will know the name of the teacher and all of that it's like it's a little bit like that but you know you talked about we'll talk about some of the things you referenced the right side and i think that was something where it was like oh yeah that's you know white and sacker that reminded me of arteta's quote when he first took over do you remember he was talking about like when you're in the kitchen once you're there for a while you know where all the cups and all the sources are and stuff that's what the right side looked like to me but i think also to go back to what i was talking about with adrian clark's commentary he was talking about looking for of the things that are different you know we know ethan noanary is very close to a new contract all of the kind of all of the transfer moves we bought another winger which potentially a blocker for him and all of the reporting was about him having a more central role and for me clive one of the interesting things about this is noanary starts he starts in field and to me that didn't quite look like the Erdegaard role that didn't look like right eight to me that looked 10 to me and you know that shot he has in the first half which by the way what an unbelievable goal that would have been people who haven't seen it he's got his back to goal he flips the ball up turns and volleys it towards the bottom corner and and the goalkeeper saves it but much more central much much more central and I know Adrian Clark said this on commentary that kind of nor garden rice looked almost more like a double pivot behind nguyen erie as a bit more of a 10 and less perhaps of that right eight what did you make of that and and i guess nguyen erie's um performance and and the fact that he looks about a foot taller as well yeah yeah and this is um yeah yeah let's talk about all of this i love these stuff i love this stuff so um so yeah shooting guard versus point guard that was my analogy i think odegaard is our point guard right so he gets on the ball creates the play blah blah blah doesn't matter where he is i want you know when he is a shooting guard i can do a little bit of that but really i want to get three shots a game can i get three hard shots a game and i like the difference i actually think you think this through right we're going to sign the center forward and and he's a bit of a sprinter he runs away lateral runs runs in behind the sort of player that Odegaard would thrive with right he likes movers runners he can find them in his eyes shut when maybe Havertz and Ethan is a combination we'll see it a bit more whereas you know Havertz a bit more of an all-rounder and he'll move but Ethan isn't maybe not such a he can play passes in but he almost almost like got two strikers there do you see what I mean and I think that will somebody who shot heavy last action heavy but it's someone like Kai is more of an all-rounder.

36:41Yeah, Vodegaard is much more of a playmaker, last pass in, difficult pass through lines to runners. If you've got a runner centre-forward who's a real sprinter that wants a ball in behind, then you can see the combination. So you, in pre-season... You're almost getting that 4-2-2-2 kind of shape going. Yeah, yeah. Exactly that, mate. Exactly that. And could you imagine, again, we just think, we're just projecting ahead. You've got a left-footed winger and a centre-forward that crashes the box. You can see things happening there. Early crosses, where the goal come from yesterday. First time cross, early, defense not set, on the move out.

37:15What happens? Saka picks his pocket on the back post. This is all stuff we want to see, right? A little bit more. You know what? Ball's come. I'm going to put it in there. I'm not going to have a touch because a touch allows your defender to just get himself set. Feel his forward. I know where he is and attack the ball. When you put the ball in first time, defense not set, disorganized, Saka picks pockets, goal. right so this stuff is i i thought was really really interesting i i never look at performance too much it's nice to see things that surprise you and white nice to see impact but ethan's growing and that's something that i was actually on discord talking about this if you look at some of the pictures of him you can see that he looks even a few months ago he looks quite big-footed and for those of us who had young teenage boys we all know what happens your feet grow first then you grow into your body.

38:06And for me, this is not a surprise. He just needed not to play. You need your body to rest. As soon as you rest, you have time away from intensive work. Body can settle and grow. And he looks like he's grown. And this really opens up a lot for me in those central areas. And I thought that shot was sensational. That is, friendly or not, the speed of that action would work in any level of game. You know? He would just like one touch around the corner, bang. and it sort of shook you. You know, so I was very worried about him not signing. You know, and Elliot was saying, oh, don't worry, Clive's going to sign.

38:45But when you've got a player that talented, you know how this works to him. Everyone's knocking his door down to get him. He's got one year to go. They'd love to steal him from us, so that'd be fantastic for him. So I was worried until it got done. You know, so I'm pleased to see him in a new squad number, which basically means he's going to get done because his talent is off the scale. he's still growing into his personality. Once he grows into that personality, which he will do in St. And become comfortable receiving the ball from everybody. Wow. We have got a talent on our hands for sure. Yeah, definitely.

39:18I think the thing about that shot as well, you're talking about potentially having a striker who runs in behind like your occurs. Does that take defenders away and, you know, make room for the, because it's something we don't do a lot of shooting from the edge of the area. That kind of almost that Phil Foden bit. and then it gives defenders a decision to make it was like I was you know watching uh in the women's euros England versus Italy the other night and uh Lucy Ward was on co-coms for ITV brilliant co-commentator there was a point where you know England are chasing a goal and Kira Walsh had a shot from about 25 yards and Lucy Ward said great that's great because Italy are dropping back and dropping back and I think the shot went wide but she said that's a brilliant thing to do because now the doubt's in their mind.

40:03Are they going to shoot? Do I have to go out and engage type thing? And we probably, well, I think we certainly don't do enough of that. We get the ball around the edge of the area. First of all, we don't really avail of those properly central areas anyway. We're always off to one of the sides in the half spaces. But I don't think we've had that kind of, is he going to shoot? you know it's always been like he's gonna he's he's gonna pass it out to saka isn't he he's gonna spin it out to saka and they're gonna try and cross so like having noan eri a bit more central and availing of some of that shooting power i think um really really interesting a really interesting development both for him and the team actually because we've been thinking about how do we get noan eri in how do we do things but actually what we probably haven't been thinking about is actually how does he help the team how does he has things that maybe some of our other players don't have that can really make him kind of um make him a real tool for the team before we go to a break clive we you know we talked a little bit about nuaneri looking bigger which you know at his age that's that's gonna happen um it reminds me of sorry another analogy here but i had uh when i was about 13 14 i had a mate called mark at school last day of school you know little guy spoke you know a little bit like this and then didn't see him for six and a half weeks came back for next year he had a beard and he sounded like barry white and that's kind of yeah yeah so there's noan airy and also clive kai havertz i think we can see maybe what he was doing in the gym um you know while he perhaps couldn't work on his lower body and I've spoken to female players before who've said this, who've had lower leg injuries or whatever and said, I just work my upper body.

41:57I think it's pretty clear Kai Havers has done that. What do you make of that? Because that can go either way as well, like when you change your body. Yeah, what do you make of, let's say, the physical condition of two of those players? And do you think it says anything about the way we might approach things at all? it says something to me about elite sport environments if you do what you always did it's not going to be enough you have to you have to evolve and change i thought kai hava looked amazing as a as a as a forward so before when he came he was he was a player that could play in number positions even play left back for his country remember that early in this stage and so he had a body that said i can put you anywhere basically now he's got a body of a center forward just like that he's done right so that's where he's playing and you go back very similar to ben white right ben white when he went to fullback suddenly became a lot sleeker yeah you know he changed his body yeah yeah and he's got he's got himself back right now and then obviously there's a bit about transition which i mentioned earlier but the secondary thing i want to mention would have been shooting when you see kai havers taking the ball in on the right hand side slightly and taking a shot from outside the box while the ball's rolling in front of him you know a coaching message has been sent to the players when you've got an opportunity to shoot you take that shot right so we're looking at two things we've seen forget the execution look at the intent turnovers speed of attack edge of area shots trust i had a banging shot as well didn't in the edge of the area and this is real intention we're taking that shot and i like that and you want to to see when you turn around if it goes over the bar you want to see your coaches clapping saying yeah you've now done what i want to see right and your point is bang on if people then start to jump out of holes and you can you can dummy it and pop it off to other people but let's have the intention to shoot and hit that target hard again we've got a center forward coming doesn't mind a shot you know so um and so kind of have us thinking okay you lot like i've read what you've all said about new center forward i read there's going to be ticker tape reception when he arrives i can But I'm a centre forward too, and I'm going to show you what I can do.

44:06And that's what we've got to do. That's what Olegar's got to do with Ethan around him and Saka around him and think, hold on, have you seen Marino? Have you seen what shape he's in? Do you think he couldn't play in the Olegar position as well? Do you think Saka couldn't play in the Olegar position as well? If these people don't step up, I know what's going to happen. He's going to have a coat on. And so this is what the level is now. and when you I don't know if you sensed it watching it I felt a determination in the game it was a determination to get your performance out in the minutes that you had on the pitch and you better be determined because there should be nobody comfortable you know you're watching Calafiore play his game he's looking determined jumping in really wanting to make an impression hey look it's a new season right but this is when hierarchies are defined right now you know and you are now everyone's looking at you and seeing what you've done how you've come back what shape you're in are you listening to me these are what can i trust you this is when hierarchies are defined and careers are defined this is why i always think the preseason is fantastic but not the the results per se but the intention to play and how we're playing and i i thought it was a wonderful exercise and can i have it you know i'm a fan of him anyway we found another player you know because this is a new player compared to what we had before yeah definitely and i think you know just on the long shots thing as well actually reflecting on two of the last goals we scored last season declan rice against newcastle securing second place basically by pinging one the edge of the area martin erdegaard last game of uh last goal of last season um actually he seemed to find his shooting boots with a few games to go so maybe maybe trace back to there but what we'll do here is we'll take a quick break we will let Elliot drop in the ad read and we'll be back right after that okay we're back with part two looking at Arsenal's 1-0 win over AC Milan in Singapore on Wednesday lunchtime in the UK evening in Singapore whenever it was where where you were um Clive we we talked a little bit in the first i actually i don't want to go over this too much because i think you kind of nailed it but like as much as we're looking for new things um saliba eating up ground coming out of nowhere jumping off the screen when you couldn't see him um tick saka and white looking like they can read each other's thoughts tick there was there was a lot of good stuff that we you know we're probably quite familiar with maybe even forgot at the end of last season or or over the course of um over the course of the summer but um one area where we are quite new is midfield it's kind of two in two out and it's interesting that Norgard and Zubimendi shared a half each yeah on this um what let's start with Christian Norgard um then what did you make I heard James say on the ask cast I didn't notice him and that was good and that's kind of how I felt but what did you make of of his performance i think he's more of a simplistic six if you know i mean by that a bit more traditional from a uk perspective you know like somebody that get the ball give it get it give it that's there you go to the world down my mouth get it give it track close holes drop between center backs but not drop between center back to so i have to have it and have 10 touches drop between center back because that's what i need to be to put an extra defender here does it mean and then in midfield I want to patrol a bit like Coquelin used to patrol wait for a dodgy touch and smash that win it back intercept and give it forward immediately that's a again real identity to his game so once you see him going to a challenge and you're on midfield or one of his partners you know what you're doing you're thinking okay are there any bits for me here if there are no bits can I just separate from my man because he's going to give it to me straight away i need to be i need to be thinking about him winning it and then giving it to me you know and then other people need to be thinking about that as well to get close and combine so i thought his game was really easy to read you know really sort of uh the way i was brought up basically if when declin rice played first played in that sixth role he played like that you know very simple he's now developed a much more technical game both feet he's playing left foot passes and all sorts of things that's a classic six as i grew up right so so he'll be fine six foot two set piece monster thank you very much where do i stand can i save people's legs can i start some games very very very smart signing that way none of us would think about but it makes all the sense in the world and obviously i don't want to go to zuby mendy tim but zuby mendy is the uh somebody that i He used to ignore until he came on a Euro final and then told everybody how good he was.

49:13But he's not so easy to read. You need to think, well, what does he actually do? Is he fast enough? Is he big enough? What does he do? And you spend more time watching, you can see exactly what he does. And he provides the drumbeat that we need, but his drumbeat seems to be a little bit more on time, you know, and on time to the people around him. I think his default maybe is to how can I make this team look really, really good. And I think I know what they need and when they need it and how they need it. I really like that. I was looking at how he gets free in the midfield. And sometimes he does this really cute thing like Tim where he runs.

49:56Say defenders have got the ball, they're looking up for him and he's sort of in a little bit of space. And what he does, he goes and marks himself almost. stands behind somebody and they all calm down thinking they're not going to give it to him then he bounces out of the marking so he's gone to mark himself but then he bounces out into space and then receives it, he's in space he can't really run, can't they see him how's he doing it and it's his cute usage of other people to create space and when to pump off them, really good and I when we did the scouting video of him I just blur and sometimes I blurt something out sometimes, and I said, he could be Mikel's most important signing.

50:40And I thought, what have I just said? But actually, I sort of meant it, because these players define how you play. They really do. And for Mikel to renew this team, you need to redefine that role in a different way, with different characteristics. and it's the center point of the wagon wheel. And I do think it's a really important sign. We all know we need a striker, so we know that. We need forward depth. We need more forwards that run and travel and threaten. But this guy is the brain of the team. And it's going to put other people under threat who have been the brain of the team, shall we say.