3 Questions to Build Intimacy & Deepen Relationships | Topaz Adizes

20 May 2024 · 58 min

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Podcast Summary: The Art of Charm

Episode Title

3 Questions to Build Intimacy & Deepen Relationships | Topaz Adizes

Episode Overview In this episode of *The Art of Charm*, hosts Johnny and AJ speak with Topaz Adizes, an Emmy award-winning director and writer known for his work on human connection and intimacy through his project, *The And*. Topaz shares insights from his book, *12 Questions for Love: A Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships*, exploring how the right questions can enhance personal and professional relationships.

Key Themes & Discussions

Introduction to Topaz Adizes

  • Background: Emmy award-winning director and writer with a philosophy background from UC Berkeley and Oxford.
  • Focus: Human intimacy and connection, with significant contributions through *The And* project, which features candid conversations to foster deeper connections.

The Power of Questions

  • Unlocking Connections: Topaz explains how asking the right questions can lead to deeper relationships and enhance leadership skills.
  • Creating Safe Spaces: Discusses the importance of creating an environment where partners or teams feel safe to be vulnerable and authentic.

Insights from Conversations

  • Surprising Revelations: Topaz shares findings from over 1200 intimate conversations, highlighting how people connect in high-stakes professional environments.
  • Emotional Articulation: Mastering emotional articulation is crucial for effective leadership and improving team performance.

Practical Tips for Building Relationships

  • Intentional Conversations: Emphasizes the need for creating intentional spaces for deep conversations to foster trust and innovation.
  • Cultural Perspectives: Discusses how different cultures approach intimacy, encouraging the audience to learn from these diverse methods.

Practical Applications

  • Real-life Impact: Stories from individuals who have transformed their relationships and careers using Topaz’s methods.
  • Intent vs. Agenda: Importance of entering conversations with intention rather than an agenda, fostering better engagement.

Lessons on Communication

  • Listening Skills: Discusses the significance of deep listening in building strong connections.
  • Cultural Norms: Recognizes how societal scripts shape conversations and how to transcend them to deepen connections.

The Art of Asking Questions

  • Constructing Questions: Importance of crafting questions that acknowledge the relationship, facilitating more profound introspection and engagement.
  • Emotional Responses: Exploring how emotional articulation can reveal deeper truths in relationships and enhance understanding.

Conclusion

  • Topaz encourages listeners to focus on asking better questions rather than seeking immediate answers, emphasizing the role of curiosity in fostering deeper connections.

Resources Mentioned

  • Book: *12 Questions for Love: A Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships*.
  • Website: [The Skin Deep](https://theskindeep.com) for more information about the project and card games designed to foster intimate conversations.

Key Takeaways

  • Practice Emotional Articulation: Engage in conversations that allow for emotional expression and vulnerability.
  • Create Safe Spaces: Intentionality in conversations can build trust and connection.
  • Questions Matter: The design and delivery of questions can profoundly impact the quality of conversations.

Final Thoughts Topaz's work emphasizes the necessity of cultivating intimacy through well-crafted questions and creating a safe environment for dialogue, which can lead to greater empathy and understanding in both personal and professional relationships.

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Transcript

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4:00You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. All right, let's kick off today's show. We're talking with Topaz Adiziz, an Emmy award-winning director, writer, and experience design architect. Topaz shares his favorite intimacy building questions based on his groundbreaking project, The And. His works have been selected to Cannes, Sundance, IDFA, and South by Southwest, featured in New Yorker Magazine, Vanity Fair, and the New York Times. He's the author of 12 Questions for Love, a Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships. Topaz studied philosophy at UC Berkeley and Oxford University.

4:38Today, he shares why questions are so powerful for creating deep bonds. We discuss how to create space for intimate conversations in our lives, how he has seen love evolve with the advancement of technology, when to bring logic in to deepen a relationship conversation, and the secret to developing emotional articulation with your partner. Hey, Tophaz, welcome to the show. So great to have you. Now, I'm really curious to know what piqued your curiosity in intimacy and human connection? Human experience via conversations in relationship. And we have all kinds of relationships. And it's been an amazing journey for now 11 years.

5:16And what's in the book. It's basically a guide to intimate conversations and deep relationships. I mean, you're teaching people, right, with how to connect and how to create more rapport, if you will, and how to have confidence and really engage and connect with people. And I'm sharing that in the, in the similar, in the form of the book, but more about exploratory cathartic conversations that illuminate your connection with someone else. That is fascinating. Can you tell us how this project started for you? we started uh by asking the question how's experience of being human changing in lieu of all these digital technologies 10 11 years ago right you're seeing how people are relating how people are dating i mean you guys you guys have seen it you've been around for 17 years you guys you know that what you were contending with 17 years ago is quite different than now i think right with the way we're relating the way we're communicating what a text message used to me what it means now.

6:14So I launched the Skin Deep, which is to explore that question, how are we shifting, how are we relating to each other differently? And then the and is the kind of flagpole experience that we created. And that's what's won the Emmy. And that's what we sell our over half a million card games around the world and really built a community of people around that. Wow. That's truly fascinating. Can you tell us a backstory of how this project came together? When my parents got divorced as a young kid, I was 3, 4, mediating that. I think that left a little bit of a desire for connection. You know, I never saw my parents happy together.

6:54I knew something was not right. And I think as I grew up and I searched for myself, and I think I always had like an itch to see what intimacy means. I always had an itch to talk to people, ask them questions. and you know as life has it one thing leads to another filmmaking film directing and then asking this question about the emotional experience how's it shifting and then you know what let's do this experiment let's put two people in a room have them ask questions film it with three cameras and always show both both cameras at the same time so you see people reacting to each other and that seemed to reveal a lot about human connection.

7:38That's how I kind of end up in the space. As you hit record on that first session, what were your hypotheses, views, thoughts going into the project and how do they evolve over time? How good humans are at adapting. Okay. I mean, can you guys imagine working now without email or without cell phones? and yet a lot we did it for centuries you know but yet now it's just we take it for granted so I think also love I think has changed I think now while our parents might have written love notes to each other and waited two three weeks for a response if they were apart now you send a text a text or a voice note and it's a response immediately with regardless of where they are physically it would be across the world and so the emotional experience of what it means to love I think is shifted.

8:28And yet we call it the same thing. And I think that's really interesting. And that's why I started the project. I wanted to explore that. I want to explore how our relationships shifting and changing and how we're communicating differently. And so I know we all know love is such a popular word and it means so many different things. But what I feel is that, yes, it's an emotion, but it's also an act. It's an act that we can practice and that we can cultivate. When we have people sit down off of one each other, I'm not asking them about love per se. I'm just seeing them communicate with one another.

9:05I do have, you know, when I look at the world around me and I see how we are communicating with each other, which is more of monologues. You send a voice note to someone else, they send a voice note to you. You talk on the phone, maybe it's on FaceTime, maybe it's not. But how present are we being with one another in the dating world for instance you're dating and you have multiple options that's on the background on all your on your own your dating apps if you're using them while you're at a date with someone how invested are you in that moment of being present with them when you know that evening you can go and you can swipe and have five of the dates lined up right so how present are we being to one another how invested are we in discovering one another um you know So I think that's shifting.

9:55I think it's interesting. And I was picking the context of dating. If you're talking about a concept of a relationship, my question would be, much like we do a check-in on a car, you check your car, do a check-up every 12 ,000 miles, you go to the dentist once a year for your teeth and whatnot, how often are we doing check-ins on our relationship? How often are we creating the space to have a cathartic conversation? If your partner comes home to you tonight, Johnny, and goes, I love you so much, you know, out of the blue. And I, you mean so much to me. It's out of the blue. You're not what you're not there to receive their comment about their love for you.

10:30You're wondering where's this coming from. Similarly, if she can, if your partner came home and said, why do you love me? You're not wondering why you love them. You're wondering where's this coming from. So creating a space of inquiry, a space of conversation in which we can ask well-constructed questions, I think is key to creating the space for practicing love, if you will, right? Deeper relationship. But I think that's kind of what I've learned from the 11 years of doing this with over 1200 conversations that I've distilled in the book. And I think that we often take our relationships for granted that are closest to us and we don't practice maintenance of the relationship.

11:07We don't take advantage of what's there for us because we take it for granted. Yeah. I think one of the beautiful parts of the project is it creates that space for two people to go into. What we're talking about now is technology is so infused in our lives. Even with your partner, they're thinking about email, they're thinking about work, their phone is dinging, they're not fully present. And then to drop on them, why do you love me? Could feel jarring if they're not expecting to go that deep right after dinner. So how do we create the space to give permission to give and receive, right? And if you do, that's why like road trips sometimes are great.

11:42If you're not listening to the podcast or music and you're on a road trip, there's nowhere to go. and then you're there for three hours, you start having conversations. And so then you're wondering where these questions are coming from, but you're in a car, you understand there's a context, right? So how do we create the context? How do we create the space, which to me is really creating intention. And the difference between intention and agenda is intention is where you're starting from, where you come from. Agenda is where you expect to end up. If you go into a conversation, I'm really curious.

12:09I want to know why this or that happened. That's your intention. But if you want to have them apologize to you, that's an agenda. And the engagement you'll find from your partner or whoever you're speaking with will be different if you come with intention versus having agenda. Now, looking at creating that space, it seems like there's two real parts to it. The first is being present enough to listen. And then the second is being open enough to really share and explore those questions and ultimately yourself through that intimacy. So I would love to hear a little bit on the first front, you know, what you've learned about listening through observing and watching two partners speak in this project and how that's changed your life and the way that you approach relationships.

12:53Man, it's, it's amazing. Like I'm thinking about how often do you get to really see people in an intimate conversation? You know, you don't, you have, I mean, you don't really, but because of this project where you bring them to a space where they kind of forget about the cameras and they're, and it's really because the questions are so well constructed that they drop into a real conversation. It's a wonderful window into relationships. And when you see that, you go, you start seeing yourself, you go, Oh, do I listen to my partner like that? Do I talk over them? Am I really present or, Oh, I'm not the only one with that problem and look at how they're solving it or looking how they're contending with it.

13:34And what's really an honor for me to have doing this is that at this point, we're in 11th year, and people now are showing up who first came across one of our videos as a Sidra and Ben seven years ago when they were in the last year of university. And now seven years later, they're about to get married to the person that they're in a relationship informed by that video, informed by asking these questions. They buy the card decks, and they're playing it on a weekly basis or whatnot with their partner. And the level of emotional articulation they have is shaped by the card games. It's shaped by the videos and them obviously doing it.

14:10And that's just an honor, right? And we just see that now and we know we're having effect on people's relationships. And they're only able to have those relationships because they've seen it as a possibility. I think for me, the part that I took away from the opening part of the book really is recognizing that through our distractions in everyday life, we're maybe not as present to listening to our partner as we think. And the project itself creates that space where there is no phone. It's two people intimately together with zero distraction to really muster all of that listening power that creates the intimacy that we want, the connection that we want with our partners.

14:50So many of us are walking through life in a bit of a daze with our partners around the distractions and not taking the time to be fully present to listen to what they want to share. And then the second part of my question around, you know, how do you get open enough to share? I think these questions, and we'll dig into the questions themselves, they talk about topics and areas of exploration that might be really challenging to open up and share, even with someone you're intimate with for the first time. Bottom line is that it's not about answering the questions. It's about being present in the asking of them.

15:28Because you're there with someone. The book is not just for romantic couples. There's anybody you're intimate with, your dad, your brother, your sister, your daughter, grandparent. You ask the question and you both sit there. When you do the end, you don't have to answer it. You have the right to take a pass. But just by asking the question, we're both sitting and our minds are answering it. I'm wondering how you're going to answer it. I'm wondering how I would answer it. Right. We are having the conversation, even though we might not be articulating it. And do we sit in that space? And that to me is, is what's key.

16:01And I think that's, what's a little different than therapy. For instance, you go to therapy and you have the referee or the person holding the space is the therapist and they're posing the questions. And what's helpful here, and it's not an either or, but what's different here and helpful here is that when you go home from therapy and if you on a conversation, you as a couple are not necessarily practiced at holding the space for each other. But by engaging with these questions or by the decks for questions, but basically by sitting together and asking questions together, we are holding the space together.

16:33And that's what's really important to me. It's not necessarily what we say, but it's the questions we ask of each other and how we sit in that, right? Even if it's uncomfortable, especially if it's uncomfortable, because the more uncomfortable it is, maybe the greater the pay off. And I noticed that the question order matters. So they get deeper and more reflective as you progress. So it's not a book that you open to a random page and pick a question and say, okay, I'm going to fire it at my wife over dinner. There is a power to building the architecture, a sequence of questions. So for instance, the last question is, why do you love me?

17:13Now you can ask that first. Why do you love me? We create the space, you go, why do you love me? We can start. But if by placing at the end of the journey, and we've gone through everything, the answer to that question, the feeling of that question, what we'll say, might verbalize, has been built on an architecture of trust. We've leaned into discomfort. We've been through something. We've expressed each other. So that that will be that much more powerful in that architecture, in that sequence. So there is a, just like anything, just one note follows another note. you know there's something about the architecture putting in a certain sequence that allows you to go deeper or to different places so can you walk us through what we're trying to build in that architecture as we go through these 12 questions what what we're trying to draw from and connect with our partners on well the first is a five-act structure you know the first three questions are about is the the the base of of the house if you will it's what everything is built upon which is our love, what brought us together, you know, what first connected us?

18:19What is the unique experiences that we created by virtue of our synergy? What are the things that connect us? One question is, when do you feel closest to me and why? Right? That's question number three. So those are the first three questions. Then we go into conflict. How are we starting to deal with conflict? What are you hesitant to talk to me about? what are you hesitant to talk to me about and why, right? What are you hesitant to ask me and why? So we start exploring what is the thing that we're not talking about? The next one is what's the biggest challenge in our relationship right now and what is it teaching us?

18:56So we're starting to explore what is the present? And then the next one is where is the sacrifice you feel you've made that I haven't acknowledged and why do you think that is? So then we're dealing with the fact that someone did, there was a challenge that one of us did not, we didn't get down with it one of us sacrificed for it so it's really dealing with the conflict and how we're dealing in different ways and that's built us and brought us to the climax if you will which is you know what is the pain in me you wish you could heal and why so that's the climax and then we started dealing in act four would be the next two questions questions nine and ten is about gratitude and appreciation what are we learning from each other and then the last two are acknowledging the things we should say because we don't have forever.

19:39If this were to be our last conversation, what is one thing you never want me to forget and why? And then number 12, of course, is why do you love me? So we take you on this journey. So from the past, the mutual trust and respect and the love that's created us now to how do we deal with conflict, to the vulnerability, the core, the climax, if you will, to then acknowledging each other, to then landing the plane conclusively with, if we never see each other again, what should I take away from our connection? So in looking at those questions, what I'm really curious about, and I know we talk a lot about asking great questions on the show to build connections.

20:15What do you think is the secret ingredient to those questions or what makes those questions so powerful outside of the order in which they're asked? And we could go into all five things, but one thing that I think is interesting would be, it's really helpful if you ask a question that acknowledges the relationship, right? So if I ask you, AJ, what scares you the most? You'll answer the question most likely in the same, the answer is the same, you know, snakes scare me the most. But if I ask you, if we change the question to, what do you think scares both of us the most? You'll answer that differently than if I ask it, the briefs ask because it acknowledges the person asking, it acknowledges our relationship.

20:51So in time you ask a question, if you can incorporate the question so that it acknowledges the people in the conversation, that elevates the question. And also, you know, I'm more interested in your response because I'm involved in the, I'm, you know, the projection of what you think of me and our relationship is involved and therefore I'm more inclined to pay attention. Right. But it illuminates the thread of our connection. I look at the responses to those questions. We're both looking at our own realities and perspectives of this relationship. And in the asking of those questions, you're now starting to look, what's the overlap of that Venn diagram?

21:29how you express yourself how i express myself but how do we do that together in this relationship that we've built and it gives you insight into how the person responding to the question feels about you and allows you to really reflect then what that person means to you in the context of the relationship which is different than hey what are you afraid of or hey what'd you have for breakfast like for instance if you're meeting someone at a social networking event and or your dinner party and you're saying someone you say hey what do you do right you could ask that question which is kind of a scripted cliche one but you can say like what do you think we could do together like if we had to collaborate on something what what could we collaborate on because that initially it immediately acknowledges my presence you know the presence of the two people now we're talking about something that if they turn around and ask the same question as someone else it's going to be a different answer.

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Read the full transcript

26:35Unfortunately, with the distraction we're talking about, but also with just our inability to really articulate our emotions. And I know writing my vows, I was grabbing a thesaurus and trying to figure out what are the other ways that I can express these emotions. And I feel in my experience as a man, I don't have many outlets where emotional articulation is asked of me. It's more, what's the data? What's the backstory? What are things that you can logically explain versus sit in those emotions and then articulate those emotions to someone that really matters to you, someone that you care about, who you want to hear their emotions as well?

27:15So as you've gone through this project and filmed, what have you recognized about people starting to open up that emotional articulation? And maybe what are some lessons that our audience can learn around finding these emotions? if in hearing those questions you posed on this episode, they're a little bit standoffish or concerned how they would even respond in an environment to those types of questions? I think the first thing I'd say is what you practice at, you get good. So you don't have to be great at it. It's just, am I stepping in the space and practicing it? The first time I dance salsa, I'm not great at it.

27:50And sometimes, I don't know if you guys ever dance salsa, you go practice, but sometimes you're in a class and sometimes the teacher says, okay, you're going to dance one song with one person, then you're going to shift over and dance another song with another person. And some people you're horrible and some people you're amazing because the chemistry is there. So be easy on yourself and practice it. And then also for the person who's inviting the other person to the space to have a conversation, you have to let go of the agenda. You have to let go of them behaving or responding in a certain way.

28:19Allow the human to be a human. Allow them to be who they are and allow it to be what it is. And at the core of that to me, it is deep listening. It's feeling to listen. It's not engaging the other person with your mind, which is built to protect, but engaging with your heart, which is built to connect. And so allow them to be who they are. And if that means that they don't articulate the way that you articulate, or this is who they are and this is the space you're in. And to appreciate that. For the one who's inviting the other person into the space, you might be more reticent to, you know, or not as practice.

28:52And we all know there's many ways to express love, right? There's acts of love, acts of service, right? But what I'm inviting is we have this tool of our voice, of our ability to communicate, to articulate things. So let's practice that because there's just one way of articulating our love, of our connection, of illuminating our connection.

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31:10We know running a growing business means getting the insights you need wherever you are. With Shopify's single dashboard, you can manage orders, shipping, and payments from anywhere. Sign up for a$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash charm. Go to shopify.com slash charm now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com slash charm. yeah and i think the beauty in that is hearing the response back so walk us through asking these questions you know you pose the question the other person answers it do you then answer the question as well how do you engage in conversations you go through the exercise follow your gut follow your body like let it be what it is i think oftentimes we're talking to each other with our with our minds and not with our bodies.

31:59Right. And like, what comes up? Oh, when you said that, I really feel this tension in my chest or my shoulders or my stomach. Like, what's that about? And just speak from there. Like there are cultural mantras or scripted, you know, cultural scripts that we follow. So for instance, I first noticed is when we did the dating, we did all these blind dates on the end and I posed this question, which is why do you think I'm still single? And this, I don't know how many couples it was. It was many of all kinds of walks of life, all kinds of experiences. 95 % of the time, the answer was the same, which is because you're trying to, because you're figuring yourself out first before you get in a relationship, because you're figuring yourself out before you get in a relationship.

32:44That, wow, this is awkward. This is weird that so many different people are saying the same thing. Maybe that's a cultural script. And we all have cultural scripts. I mean, generally, remember living in LA? Like there was a cultural script. What do you do? Where do you live? Where are you from? You know, how's the weather? I mean, how do we ask different questions that create different opportunities for exploration, different ways of being, right? That can avoid cultural scripts, that can create real threads of connection, bands of connection that are different than what we're normally used to.

33:18It's an opportunity. And by doing that, you just feel maybe a different sense of what it means to be alive, right? You're asking different questions. You're doing different things. And what's your advice to our audience who maybe isn't happy to hear the response from our partner or the person we're asking questions? What do we do in a situation of conflict where the question goes a direction or an answer goes a direction we weren't anticipating or hoping for? I'll tell you my answer and then I'd love to hear your guys' answer because I think that's a good one. For me, I'd be grateful that I'm hearing what is true for them.

33:52and that they're not being nice to me, but they're being kind. Because nice can be, you know, on the end we have this one woman who, I don't know if she quoted someone else, but she said, don't be nice, nice is bullshit, be kind. You know, nice is, I hit the ball in the conversation, we're playing tennis, if you will, I hit the ball from my side, then I run over to your side of the court and I hit the ball back because I'm scared about how it might affect you. And so therefore I'm being really nice, but we're not really playing tennis. We're not really having a conversation that's really acknowledging your being and presence because I'm being nice.

34:25Kind is letting people know where you're at and how you feel and really acknowledging their presence and their own sense of agency and their own ability to articulate and be who they are. And so that's what comes up for me is if I hear what I don't like to hear, I think that's awesome because now we can start dealing with what is versus us being nice and playing around with the concept and we're not really dealing with what is. I mean, I say this because it's a good line. Do I really believe it about myself? No, but it's like when I realized I was an asshole, okay? When I realized I was an asshole, okay, I started putting energy in dealing with the fact that I'm an asshole and changing it versus putting all my energy in just pretending that I wasn't.

35:09You know, where's the energy going? in up maintaining the conceit or the artifice or the impression of the concept or in actually dealing with what is. So if someone tells me what they really feel and where they're at, great, because now we're dealing with what is and we can actually start changing it and adjusting it. That's what comes up for me. What would you tell someone? Because that's a great question. Yeah, I think for me, it illuminates a part of your ego that's defensive and that's an area to explore further. What about that response from this person is bringing up that fight or flight response for you that you're defensive around, that you're frustrated with, that you weren't anticipating or hoping to hear from the person you're asking these questions of.

35:51And in that, really reflecting, okay, well, where is the truth here? Because that's their experience of me versus the experience that my ego is projecting outward and the way I'm behaving or communicating or how I want to show up in this relationship. And can we work to close that gap, right? Because I feel like we really get into trouble when the gap of the other person's reality of us and our ego is massive. Right. I'm curious watching these conversations as a third party observer with people that you're not in a relationship with. If there's any strategies or interesting moments that really stand out to you that were employed in these conversations that you're like, huh, maybe that's how I want to communicate.

36:35Maybe that's how I want to show up in interactions. Well, for me, the first one was when I saw Ben and Sidra series. They came on the first time two weeks before Sidra was giving birth to their daughter, Naila. And they were on last year when Naila's nine now, and she's talking to her mom. They've been on eight times. So this project is amazing because not only does it have breadth of all kinds of relationship, but depth too, because people come back seven, eight times. And you're tracking how they're growing and changing. It's just amazing. and an honor and i remember watching ben and you know you kind of get it when you see the bipanel and i realized wow he doesn't respond until he has eye contact with sidra and wow he's taking a deep breath and really settling in before he responds so he's not he's kind of bypassing the initial reaction which is the brain responding the mind and dropping into his body and breathing because breathing is an access into the body and he's responding from that space in eye contact i go wow that is a great practice do i do that so i remember that i also remember seeing these patterns like i mentioned the blind date where people say you know where i see these societal crowd cultural mantras go oh how much of that is in my own programming how much am i responding from that versus actually my experience my unique experience and the access point there is to you know what we call deep deep listening this you know feeling to listen and dropping in and obviously the breath is a great way into that breath is a great way into the body listening and answering from that spot which then elevates the conversation because then it becomes like two souls talking versus two two minds talking i think one of the most powerful parts of the project for me is the documentation aspect.

38:30So Johnny and I, in our week-long bootcamp experience with our clients, we film them interacting as complete strangers with one another. And then we play the video back for everyone to view. And I've recognized patterns in communication from observing and watching others interacting. And that exact sensation, I feel even though I'm not in the interaction. So you can feel those tense moments, even as a third party observer, as two people are getting deeper in conversation, maybe expressing some things that have frustrated them, expressing some things they didn't feel comfortable sharing or talking about.

39:06Even the audience can feel that and you've documented this through the process. Again, I was saying, you know, how often do you see these intimate conversations? And it's really, I think it's a gift for me because it's elevated my relationship with my wife and brought that more conscientiousness to how am I listening to or how am I responding? And then I know it creates, and I know this overused term, even almost as much as love, but empathy, because you can have two people speaking about, let's say incarceration of father and daughter, and not everyone who's listening and watching this has been incarcerated, but they can all relate to a father-daughter relationship, and that's their way in.

39:48it can relate to that and that's their way of creating empathy right and i think that's frankly i think we need more of that and i think we also need more of listening and if you think about like i appreciate that you watch the series but i think it's beautiful about the ant too is that we're always showing you both people at the same time and if you think of all the content that we watch you're always seeing the people talk you don't always see the people listening right and you actually don't show it at the same time so you have like someone talking and then you cut away to the listener and you cut for a reaction and you cut back but you don't show both people the same time and when you show people but the same time what you're saying is both are equally important it's not just the talking it's the listening to matter of fact it's the conjunction of the two and that's what creates the relationship so if we focus on that we focus on the listening right i mean i'm is it's not just speaking i think that's beautiful and if we can do that the public is media and creating that then other people see that and then they have more consciousness in their conversations and the way that they show up for one another.

40:52And I think so much of this project can actually be that demonstration of what relationships can look like, all the various shapes and forms they take and how we can be more present and recognizing what our partner means to us and find the words, find the emotional articulation. It's like, you know, if I tell you, like, AJ, you know, relationships, man, they're full of jealousy. There's just jealousy and all the intimate, all the love, just full of jealousy, all these romantic relationships. Like Topaz, that's because you're 50 % of all the relationships you're in. Let me show you some relationships where that's not the case.

41:27I go, oh, so there is another possibility. There's another relationship I can model. And where do we learn these things? We learn them at Art of the Charm through you guys, in terms of how to communicate and how to be present. But we learn that from modeling our family, maybe in our friends group. And what's been beautiful about this is no, actually here are all the different possibilities that can be there. And therefore the relationships you are become more an aspect of creation of agency than of like falling into it and bringing in acceptance. So what are you shaping? What are you creating?

42:01And ultimately what's in the book is a distillation of a tool, how to do that, which is holding the space of inquiry when you have well-constructed questions. You touched on this a bit earlier. I'm curious to hear in your self-reflection going through the project, what you've recognized about yourself and how you've changed the way you communicate with your partner. It happened definitely when I was writing the book and it's up with what's the pain in me you wish you could heal and why, which is question number eight. Sometimes you're in a fight with a partner or they're going through something.

42:34They're going through something and you just want to fix it. You just want, they're going through a big challenge. Maybe they're lashing out at you or something, but you want to fix it. And so you step in and you're trying to fix it. You're trying to help them through it. And the question I ask myself is I realize I can't heal them. I can't actually fix this for them. So the question isn't to ask myself, how can I fix this for them? The question is, what is the space that I'm holding for them so it's most conducive for them to find their way through it? And I would want to fix it for my wife and that would not help.

43:10And so I kept finding to ask myself, okay, what's the space I'm holding? Because maybe in the effort of fixing it, I'm actually, it's a disservice to the space that I'm holding. Absolutely. So that was a big learning, right? So the emphasis is not how do I fix it. The emphasis is what's the space I'm holding. And sometimes the space you're holding is actually not you fixing it. And that's sometimes where there's a, that's one big helpful tool. the other one is when she would say something that i found would strike a chord in me a wound my reaction is to lash out or to respond is to grab onto that breath between you know you're like you're you're you're jumping into a response mode and you're done you're going to mind where you're defending it's like see if you can grab the breath before you actually enact that response.

44:00Maybe some box breathing, bring it down. Okay. And then come from that space. That's, that's some learning I've had, you know, in directly with my relationship. Speaking about the first learning, what I find so insightful about that question as well is oftentimes we may think we're through the pain and we've healed, but our partner has that perspective and can see through the mask that we've been wearing around the pain that they would love to heal for us. And then you actually kind of resent them a little bit. You're like, why are you bringing it back up? You're like, actually, no, they're doing your service.

44:34Yeah. And they feel it too, right? My association, you feel it. You just can't, you see it, you know? And I think that that's really interesting, right? And I think that's actually a mark of what a relationship is. Any kind of relationship. These are the people closest to us. I will never see my own eyeballs. I mean, in the mirror, but I'll never see my, but everyone else can. and they can reflect back to you. I can see my own eyes through the reflection of someone else's eyes, right? So gratitude to the people who are close by and the service they're doing of reflecting. We can be tailor-made reflections.

45:09How are we reflecting other people to themselves? That's a choice we can make. We can do that by the presence we bring to the conversation, how we listen, and the questions that we pose. There's a beauty to that, and that's something that we should not take for granted. Yeah, I completely agree there. And the second part of that is actually giving yourself the space to respond and not with the initial wave of emotion or reaction, but to slow your body enough to actually get into what's truly going on and not the defensive nature of that initial reaction to whatever you heard that you didn't like or disgruntled you.

45:45You know, I think it's important to make the distinction between comfort and safety. Absolutely. It's important to be safe, but you can be uncomfortable and safe. and that's actually a great place to be. I feel safe, but I'm uncomfortable because we're exploring certain issues that make me uncomfortable. And that exploration, that discomfort is going to give me fodder for growth, right? But oftentimes we confuse, well, if I feel uncomfortable, therefore I'm not safe. That's not necessarily true. Yeah, and in a lot of ways in these relationships, we need safety first to move to the discomfort and the discomfort, as you said earlier, actually leads to the growth.

46:22Yeah. So if reading these questions and hearing these questions on the show gave you massive pause around asking someone in your life these questions, look first, have we created safety in our relationship? Do we feel judged? Do we feel put on the spot? Do we feel like we can't be ourselves first? Because we can't actually get to the point of discomfort where the real growth happens if we don't have safety. And that's what speaks to about creating the space. You know, if you say, hey, we're going to play this game or do the book, there's rules. We're going to ask these 12 questions. You know what you're doing.

46:53And one of the rules is you don't have to answer the question if you don't want. You just have to ask the question. You have the right to pass. So you're not forced to have a response. There is a safety in the rules, right? There's a safety in the guidelines of the game. I think that's really helpful in terms of, because otherwise, if you are going to have a talk with your partner somewhere and you're not in therapy, right? then what are the rules of that conversation how will this go who's who's asking the question you know just by asking the question you have more power than the other because like wait you're asking the question now we're going to ask this answer this question and when it's coming out of a book or random card game that we have then already there's more equanimity in the conversation because the question is not coming from either of us so how do we approach that I'm sensing myself in my relationship, but also I'm assuming a lot of our audience members.

47:50If one person listens to this podcast, discovers the book, and then puts it in front of their partner, it can feel like a lot of pressure for the other person to be like, okay, well, I got to answer 12 questions. I got to create space. So how do you approach the initial conversation proposing, hey, let's go through this exercise together? Make it an invitation. And again, that goes into your intention versus agenda. You know, if you want to ask the question of this book so that your agenda is that they ask you to marry them, or that they tell you that they're really sorry about something, you have an end in mind.

48:22That's an agenda. They feel it. And now they're already, you know, they're coming at it when playing emotional chess. But if you're intense, then go into your curiosity. I really want to have this experience. I don't know where it's going to go. But my intention is clear. I want to explore a relationship. I want to ask these questions. They can feel that. and you tell them, hey, the rules of this game is that we're just going to ask the questions. We don't have to answer the question if we don't want. It gives them freedom. It gives them permission to be who they are. Right? And I think you could feel that.

48:53And I think the hardest thing is we've seen that generally there's one person that really wants to have a conversation and have this experience and the other one that's reticent and doesn't. And what's important is to acknowledge that you articulate, hey, I really want to have this experience. Can we set the time to do that? And your partner, if they just flat out reject it over and over again, I'm sure there's other things in a relationship that are asked of them that are rejected as well. So this is not just the only thing. So there's an issue. But if they say, okay, I'll do this. They don't have to want to do it.

49:25But if they say, okay, we'll do it because I love you and we'll have this experience with me, okay, let's do it. You have to come to it without the agenda and you have to accept them for who they are. You can't expect them to answer things with their emotion articulate that's poetic and loving as much as you are. This is who they are. Most likely they're a compliment to you. So if you really like bathing in emotional space, probably they don't. That's fine. But you're giving them permission to be who they are. And so therefore you're telling them, it's okay. Thank you for doing this with me. And by doing that, then what happens next is next time you invite them, it's not so scary for them.

49:57And now they'll do it again. Kind of like the first time you ride a bike, you're scared of falling over and you do. But the second and third time you get better at it, by the fifth time, and be like, yeah, let's go for a journey. No problem. And you get better at it. So I think it's important that for the person who's inviting the other in is to let them be who they are. Let them know the intention is that's part of creating space. Let's have a conversation. I don't know where it's going to go, but I really want to explore it. Cool. I don't have an end game in mind. And matter of fact, if you don't want to answer anything, so be it.

50:25And if you're not going to be poetic, I don't expect you to be poetic. Let's just be here together. And it's a practice. Right? I mean, you were practicing the words for the vows, but now you do it again, you have another conversation, it gets easier and then becomes more flowery and different. Now you start expressing yourself in a different way you didn't before, but that's because you're practicing it. And how do you approach the preparation for the conversation? Should both parties read the book in its entirety and know the questions beforehand? Because a lot of our listeners are, you know, they go above and beyond.

50:59We're talking 110 % here. And I can see them, you know, drafting thousand word responses to these questions before they even get in front of their partner. No. So then I would say, I would say, don't read the book. I would say, actually, what I would say is I'd read part one, which is creating the space. And I read part three, which is troubleshooting. Like if shit hits the fan, what do we do about it? And I would skip part two, which is breaking down each question and why it works. I would just read creating the space, troubleshooting. And then I'd say, hey, let's play the game. and the less you prepare for it, the better.

51:30Because when you prepare for it, what that means is that you're coming from the brain, from the mind. And the mind is built to protect you. It's not built to connect you. The heart's built to connect you. And part of the heart is the body. It's being present. So be in the space and see what comes up. You don't have to have the right answer. You just have to have the answer of the moment. And that's also why it's beautiful because these 12 questions, you can ask them now. You can ask them in a year with the same person. and I promise you the response is going to be different because you've changed.

51:59Your relationship changed. It's grown, right? And so the key to me is not in the preparation. It's in the presence. And if that means the preparation is so that you're present, great. If that means we're going to prepare a time so that we're going to put the phones aside, we know the kids are not running about or there's no construction next door, we have a time, prepare like that. But don't prepare the answers because that's preparing the agenda. prepare the intention, prepare the space and prepare to be present. And after observing all of these different couples and conversations, were there any patterns to length of time spent together and how they responded to these questions and found the emotional articulation?

52:44Was there anything that you found through all of these as signs to you that, wow, this is a really deep relationship, beautiful relationship? I'm at AJ you on your website you're like 9400 people you guys have affected over 17 years I don't know if it's for you but for me I sit there and I'm like oh my god there are as many stories as there's sands of the sands on the beach like every grain of sand on the beach there's as many stories every relationship is so different right it's just unique and the way of expressing love could be totally different the father might not respond to one question of the daughter but you You know he loves his daughter so much.

53:23You can feel it in the room, right? And then you have, there are so many different stories. There's so many different, every relationship is its own unique language and world. And it's just an honor to be in that space. And, you know, I've seen, for me, certain patterns come up or certain things come up in cultures. So we filmed in Amsterdam and we'd notice that, wow, these conversations go for about an hour and 20 minutes. and then you sometimes in other cultures um you're in ohio and the conversation is 45 minutes for some reason you know like much quicker but you never know you you never know um you know yeah just every every relationship is different i have noticed that you know we filmed in um quebec and when they spoke those all those relationships whatever it was in romantic or otherwise spoke about sex much more free than let's say the american culture like there are cultural norms right there's cultural waters that we swim in that give permission and not for certain kinds of conversations that for sure um but specifically i haven't noticed anything beyond that and then anything beyond the kind of the societal scripting that we have cultural launches that we have for one another yeah i think the the interesting part again just as an observer is to be able to watch and witness how different cultures approach these answers and the depth at which they explore the emotions behind these answers.

54:51I think just as a passive observer, even if right now you don't feel that you have a relationship that you want to pose these questions to, it's just such a powerful project to just observe and look at your own reaction and response as you're watching two people share their answers that you don't know. I just think it's a missed opportunity to go through life and not articulate. your connection and reflection that you offer others and they offer you, especially the ones closest to you. And when you do that, you feel a greater sense of what it means to be human, what it means to be alive. And I know it's uncomfortable.

55:25I know it's scary, but I think there's a greater payoff and that's why I'm suggesting it's worth it. Yeah. And I, I love that it can be revisited. My wife and I did the exercise of writing our vows again to each other a year later to celebrate and they were different as our relationship has grown. involved after getting married. So I think even if you go through the exercise once, it's just a great way to stay connected and check in with someone who's very important in your life around how they view and feel you in this present moment. And there's a lot of power in the writing of the questions.

56:00So they're constructed in a way that it's not like, what is our biggest conflict? It's what do you think it is? Right? So then it's subjective versus objective. If you tell me what is the biggest or why do we fight so much? It's like, well, because of this and that. Well, no, it's because of that. But if I say, why do you feel? I can't really argue with that. That's your opinion. And then I'm hearing you. I'm seeing you. And ultimately as humans, don't we just want to be seen? Ultimately we want to be seen and yet it's scary to be seen. It's scary to be vulnerable. But when you are seen, when you are fully seen, it gives you a greater sense of what it means to be alive.

56:37And a big part of that being seen is having your emotions heard and validated, even if your partner doesn't agree with you feeling that way. Absolutely. And that's where it comes to the power of the question. Because if the question is what is objectively, then you're arguing about the objectiveness. Objectivity, like objectively the truth. But it says if you shape the question, what's the subjective truth, then that's setting me up to see you. Okay, that's how you feel? Wow, I'm sorry you feel that way. right and so we that's why for me ultimately there's one thing i just the bottom line that i've learned from this experience is stop looking for answers create better questions put all your focus on the questions and then the answers become easier more obvious and more helpful yeah i think the most valuable lesson here is the power of curiosity even with the people we spend the most time in our lives with, as we talked about earlier in our distracted, technology-driven world to take the moment in the space, to be fully present and curious about this person that we love and care so deeply about.

57:41Yeah. So where can our audience find out about the project and the book? So the book is available everywhere, Amazon, you know, audiobook, ebook, it's anywhere you get your book. So it's available. And then the skindeep.com is where you can get all our products and the card game additions and everything. And social media is The Skin Deep. Just look up The Skin Deep on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, anywhere, Facebook, and you'll find us. Well, thank you for joining us. What's next for you? Raising my kids. Raising my kids. Maybe another book. We'll see. Filming more of the ands around the world. So continue to share stories.

58:20Beautiful. Thank you so much for stopping by today. Thanks, AJ. Appreciate you.

58:33This week's shout out comes from Chris. And well, I'll let Chris tell you himself. Take it away. Hey, everyone. My name is Chris Raftery. I'm a financial advisor. And I joined X Factor to build better relationships, really, with my friends, at work, and also with my family. And X Factor really helped me not just with the course material and listening to and reading about all the ways I could improve, but also in helping me implement all of these different teachings. giving me an outlet and a network to practice these things, to troubleshoot in a way a lot of situations I was going through, and really provide some real-world applications and have fun along the way too.

59:27So the thing I'm looking forward to the most is continuing to develop. They say iron sharpens iron, and being able to work with the other guys in the group has really proved that. And I'm looking forward to continuing to build better relationships with the existing folks that I hold near and dear to me, but also meeting new people out there. So, you know, looking forward to hopefully meeting you guys in the future as you join the X Factor. So it's worth it. Thank you, Chris. It was a pleasure working with you, too. Let me ask you, are you using these concepts in your life? What's stopping you?

1:00:06We understand you're busy. That's why we want to systemize our processes by speeding up the learning curve, cutting out the frustration and guesswork, and streamlining your efforts at our X-Factor Accelerator experience. Boost your social confidence, communicate powerfully, and build your social capital with easy-to-use framework strategies and tools straight from this show. We do this by short to-the-point trainings, Q &A, Zoom coaching sessions, virtual implementation workshops, and a money-back guarantee. Hit the ground running with a personalized plan of attack. This is not a one-size-fits-all.

1:00:41Our programs are tailored to your skill level so that you can get the best possible training. Join an elite network of professionals, business owners, military special forces, and engineers, closing deals, winning friends, and influencing high-value people. People skills for analytical people. Don't put off your full potential any longer. Apply today at unlockyourxfactor.com. All right, if you've gotten value out of this or any of our other podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It would mean the world to us, and it helps others find the value that you have gotten.

1:01:21And one last thing before we head out, a thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. All right, everyone, go out there and have an epic week.

1:01:36You were the bad boy You threw your love away Like you was just a toy And you sold the world You're a song of a tragedy Cause you had your taste Of black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you It was a bad day, but I found it a wrong way.

From the publisher

In today’s episode, we tackle the art of building deep connections with Topaz Adizes. Topaz is an Emmy award-winning director, writer, and experienced design architect. With a background in philosophy from UC Berkeley and Oxford University, Topaz has made significant contributions to the fields of intimacy and human connection through his groundbreaking project, The And. His work has been showcased at prestigious festivals such as Cannes and Sundance, and featured in top publications like The New Yorker and The New York Times. Topaz is also the author of 12 Questions for Love: A Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships.

In today’s episode, Topaz Adizes shares why questions are so powerful for creating deep bonds, how to create space for intimate conversations in our lives, when to bring logic in to deepen a relationship conversation, and the secret to developing emotional articulation with your partner.

What to Listen For

Introduction – 0:00

Who is Topaz Adizes, and how can his insights on communication and relationships transform your career and personal life?

How can asking the right questions unlock deeper connections and enhance your leadership skills?

What’s the secret to creating a space where your team or partner feels safe to be vulnerable and authentic?

Surprising revelations from over 1200 intimate conversations – 11:00

What surprising revelations did Topaz uncover from over 1200 intimate conversations, and how can they apply to your high-stakes professional environment?

Practical tips for emotional articulation – 20:15

How can mastering emotional articulation make you a more effective leader and improve your team’s performance?

What are the 12 questions that can revolutionize your personal and professional relationships, and how should you use them?

Real-life applications that will change your life – 32:29

How have others used Topaz’s methods to transform their relationships and careers, and what can you learn from their experiences?

How can you create intentional spaces for deep conversations that foster trust and innovation within your team?

Lessons on communication that no one tells us – 45:11

What techniques can you use to enhance your communication skills and build stronger connections with your team and loved ones?

How do different cultures approach intimate conversations, and what can you learn from their methods to improve your own interactions?

Why is it crucial to ask better questions in your professional and personal life, and how can this practice accelerate your career growth?

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