3 Rules to Reconnect with Old Friends | Anna Goldfarb

27:54And then all of a sudden we're starting to see that because we're posting our, our random thoughts. And for a lot of people, they're not even really thinking about what they're posting. They're just posting something that came into their mind. And all of a sudden they're getting an angry response back. So now I'm sure there's many more things that contributed to that. But now we've seen people get very particular of what they post on Facebook because they can't post all of their thoughts anymore because they have too many friends from too many different places, which then drove into what made TikTok so popular, which is I can have an account, I can say all of my deepest, craziest things, and none of my friends will see it because the only people that know about this TikTok are the people that I told.

28:49So now what we're seeing is social media going to a place where you can be anonymous. You can be this account that people would have to search and find and maybe they saw your stuff. And people lose it. We're like, oh my God, my mom just found my TikTok that I've had for five years. But my thought being is what we saw was this compartmentalized of friendships, right? These are the friends that I do this with, but we don't talk about these things and they don't meet these friends and they don't come over here and they don't know about this in my life because now we started to understand that there are more different worldviews out there.

29:34We have friends from way too many different places that are all interacting together and we're seeing that everyone has different worldviews. Everyone has different experiences that have led them to where they are today that they're extremely passionate about. And so, of course, everything that happens online trickles into our real life interactions. And so just like social media, now everything's compartmentalized in real life. And I think it's led to an immaturity in prejudging people based on their views or labeling. And, you know, you're on my side or you're not my side. The polarization that's happening is also coinciding with exactly what you talked about.

30:24This rise of us all living online more, consuming the algorithms more and getting our distorted reality based on our interests. and Johnny and I will laugh. You know, we'll ask each other, well, what side of the internet are you on today? Like, where'd you get that piece of information? Because I didn't encounter it at all. Are you seeing these things? And then I have to do a dig and, oh, okay, now I'm seeing a different algorithm. And, you know, that's happening in real time in a way that humans we've never faced before. We would sit around a campfire. We'd sit around a dinner table. We'd break bread.

30:52And because we were face-to-face in a room together, those conflicts and rifts and different worldviews didn't feel as sharp as they do online. And you had to handle them in a mature way because you valued your in real life friends dearly. In fact, they made up your family and your community and you did not want to be ostracized from that. Chased out. You didn't want to be ostracized where on online you get booted from one community for your political beliefs or whatever you're discussing, you just find another group that will accept you. And it's no big deal because now you're just like, well, they don't understand me like these new people do.

31:35Well, I will say social media does not set us up for success and really elevates things that are controversial because they want engagement and they want people to stay on the app more. It's not designed to really make you feel connected. It's designed to get you feeling something, emotions, like angry, discussed whatever um as i've learned more about friendships working on this book i have naturally pulled away from social media because what social media does is flatten our social circle it gives you all this information about people that you don't need to know this much information about and it scrambles you it scrambles your idea of who's in your community and as i learned that what we should do, what we should be doing is triaging our friendships.

32:29We should be picking a few friends and be outstanding to them, not try to keep up every connection we've ever made throughout our whole life. Cause that'll just be, it's overwhelming. It's like going to a supermarket and when you're starving and you're just overwhelmed by all the choices and all the, all the opinions flying at you. But if you go to food shopping, when you're have a list and you're not starving, you know exactly who you should be focusing on. So that's what I've learned. And I've taken that philosophy with me in my own life of, I don't need to know what my third grade best friend thinks about, you know, tariffs.

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35:42You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed's sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast. And even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. In the beginning, you know, you would be posting, hey, I got a kitty. I've got a kitten and it'd be a photo and everyone in your friend group would see that. And then they'd reach out to you and be like, oh, I want to meet the kitten. But now, to your point, the algorithms have forced outrage and emotion into your feed in a way that you don't even see your friends anymore unless they're commenting outrageous things.

36:27so you're seeing sides of your friends that you probably don't need to see and we you much rather see in a normal conversation than in the online world that distorts all of it so addictive to get angry to get outraged like i'm i have family members who are on facebook every day take it so seriously and like forwarding it's like oh my god this is designed this is a casino designed to get you outraged. And this is not how our brains were developed. This is not how we're supposed to, you know, be using our time on this precious earth. Like we should be doing things more for connection, not just to get the cheap thrill of, you know, outrage.

37:11And not to say that these things aren't important, by the way. Like there are many important things that deserve our attention. I'm not trying to minimize that. But social media isn't designed for that, for us to have thoughtful, nuanced conversations. When you recognize its utility as a tool to stay in touch and then you move to more personal touch points off of social media around what you're learning about people and what they're posting that is important to them, I think that's a better use. But all in all, at the end of the day, the real friendships that we crave are built in person, spending quality time together, really getting to know each other deeply.

37:49They're not spent in online chat rooms and online spaces. No, and that's because you're not making memories. When you just chat online all day, it's like a non-memory. There's really nothing like it. But when you go somewhere novel with a friend, when you say, remember that time we went to that pool hall and I tripped and de-pantsed that guy? Wasn't that hilarious? Like whatever, like those memories add richness to our friendships. And that's what we that's why social media will never, never, never compare, never compare. Relationships are about the experiences that you share. Yeah. And I think that's a perfect segue into the triple D model that you talk about in your book, because I feel so many of us are missing the last piece, which we can use social media as a tool to surface those memories.

38:45that you're talking about to surface those moments that we did commemorate when Facebook was just cat photos and our friends doing fun things online and not all the political outrage that it is now. So what can we do? Walk us through the Triple D model to really engage with these people that are important in our life. I was trying to think of a word to describe the kind of friend I wanted to be. And I realized there's a limitation in language. Like what word describes it? And I came across the word wholehearted. And wholehearted means committed, dedicated, and enthusiastic. And I'm like, that is the kind of friendships I want to enjoy.

39:28That's the kind of friend I want my friends to, you know, describe me as. So this was my paradigm I discovered called wholehearted friendship. And it's based on the work of Jeffrey A. Hall, who's a professor of communication at Kansas University. and I know you've quoted his research about how many hours it takes to become a friend. I mean, it takes time, just like you said. And I wanted to bring in the other piece of, well, how do we decide how to spend our time? Like, is friendships just a random silo in our life? Or how does that, you know, how is that involved in the whole mix of the decisions we make day to day?

40:06And I learned that friendships require three things. It's who you yearn to spend time with, that's desire, who you prioritize spending time with, that's diligence, and who you actually enjoy spending your time with, that's delight. So it's all revolving around time, who you think about, who you make time for, and who you enjoy. And what I learned about desire in a friendship is that you need that clear and compelling reason for both people to make time. and actually there's an anecdote I share in the book that was very powerful for me with my friend Adam and he was working at the Apple store and he's really into comic books and he got a new comic book on his lunch break and his co-worker Octavia said oh you're into comic books and my friend Adam was like yeah I love comic books and they just shatted away about comic books they started calling each other to talk about comic books they started a podcast about comic books And then one day Octavius got very sick and he needed a kidney transplant.

41:12And my friend Adam, without hesitation, volunteered. And he donated his kidney to his best friend Octavius, saving his life. And Octavius appointed Adam as the godfather, the godparent of his baby daughter. So now they became family. And you look at this story of a friend donating a kidney to another friend and you're like, oh, my God, I want a friendship or give me a kidney or I want the kind of friendship. But the thing is, it started over comic books. That's the about that was so compelling to both of them. And that's what people misunderstand about friendship. They think affection is enough and it's not enough.

41:56You need that interest of this is this thing that we both are so geeked up about, so hyped up about. And I want to talk about it with this person more than anyone. And that can change your life. Yeah. And what I highly recommend for our listeners as they're thinking about this about is to actually verbalize that to the relationship in your life. Like, I love this about you. I love this about us that we could talk for hours. I lose track of time talking about comic books with you, Octavius. you actually verbalize that and you're going to find that that supercharges your friendships because so many of us right now might be feeling a little unsure of what grounds are these friendships built on?

42:40Like, are we still feeling it? Is the other person feeling it? You know, we're having those internal doubts and that's why modern friendship is so fraught. And when you can take that step and be authentic and say, I love this about us. I love this about our relationship. This is why our friendship is important to me. Here's the about. You would be surprised at how much that draws the other person into the second step of having that diligence of following through and seeing you again and not pushing it off and not saying, oh, sorry, cancel last minute on that dinner. Let's do it again. Let's reschedule.

43:13It doesn't happen. You know, that diligence is built on a strong desire to actually see the person again and talk about comic books and do the fun things that you all enjoy. Totally nailed it. That is like the crux. That is it. What I love about our clients is they have this aha moment that they're like, wow, this is actually more under my control than I think. Because I think a lot of modern friendship right now, it feels because we have this never ending to do list and our calendars are packed and things are constantly moving and shifting. It feels a little out of our own control. And a lot of it is just hope that the right people are going to come and do our life and the right people are going to invite us to hang out on the couch together at the Central Perk coffee shop for hours on end.

44:00And that's just not how it works. So if we recognize this is under our control, we put some time to creating an about and really focusing on what's the desire here of this friendship. Then we follow up and say, hey, I actually want to spend time. You're important enough to me that even with a busy calendar with a newborn and me going to the gym every morning, it's important for me to spend some time with you. I want to spend time with you. And then we do it, show up in a way that we're not on our phone. We're not distracted. We're not thinking about what's going on with the newborn back home. But we're here.

44:29We're present. So we can express that delight together. It creates the friendship that we're all looking for. The only thing I'd add is your friendship might not look like the way it used to look. you know especially if you reconnect if you reach out to a friend you haven't seen in a few seasons you have to give yourself grace of we're finding our footing we're negotiating where we're going to practice our friendship we're not roommates anymore we're not you know we didn't we don't live down the street from one another anymore we're we're trying to figure it out so it might take a little bit of time but that's okay if you have you know adjustable flexible expectations And recognizing, as Johnny said, like that compartmentalization is happening, whether you like to believe it or not.

45:16So instead of trying to shoehorn it in and pretend it's not happening, be OK with it, except that compartmentalization is my farmer's market Sunday morning friend and you're my go to Barry's boot camp every Thursday friend. And yeah, you're the guy I'm going to go talk about rock and roll music at the edge of the bar for hours on end on Friday nights. That's who you are. That's the friendship that I'm showing up for that matters to me. It's okay that, hey, our families don't play together. We don't have all these other things in common. But this compartment really works for me. And I want to keep it working for you too, because it's important.

45:52And I think we oftentimes try to create super friends where we just think that they'll fit into every bucket and they can do everything that we like to do. And when we strive for that, we set ourselves up with poor expectations to really be hurt by friends. And we don't appreciate the parts that do work. Right. It's like, all right, this is a, you know, some of my friends don't translate. Some are daytime friends. Some are leisure time night friends. you know like okay well what's our friendship about well our friendship's about work so maybe that's why happy hours feel a little strained like really our friendship is a daytime friendship and i want to get down with like other friends in my network and that's okay it's okay it's okay i was talking about this compartmentalizing uh friendships a long time ago because I seen how things were what was happening online but I also have to myself radical different personalities there's Johnny from the art of charm there's also rock and roll Johnny there's many I have many different interests and they're all incredibly extreme and so it you know when other people were like when they would hear about it they're like well I don't understand why you just can't mix them all together.

47:12Some are able to handle the other personalities, but not everybody. And that's okay. They don't need to understand me completely. They only need to understand the part that they get and what we're experiencing together in those moments. That's all. If they want to learn more about me, I'm more than happy to tell them. But I know once I start talking, they'll put the brakes on that right quick. And that's okay. I'm fine with that. And everybody should be. It's okay. You're going to find out where those limits are and you're going to work within those limits. And if you understand that and you're open about that and you're okay with that, you can build incredibly strong relationships within the reins of those functions and those experiences.

48:10That brings up the delight point. And I really want to hone in on this because oftentimes, especially when we're reconnecting, we probably spend the least amount of time on the novelty and the fun and bringing excitement back to this relationship. and we are just like, if we just get together, it's gonna be great or it's gonna be reconnecting. When in actuality, that third D of delight, like are you actually enjoying the time that you dedicated to spend, the time in traffic, the paying for parking, the Uber ride, the canceling a late dinner at work so that you can get there on time? We are all time constrained.

48:46So if we're not gonna go into a situation where we're like, this is gonna be a great time for me, odds are we're gonna say no and flake. And if you're trying to be someone who's rekindling relationships and bringing people back into the fold, spend a little time thinking about the delight. Maybe it's not do the same old thing. Maybe it's go to the Dodgers game or a new experience or something that has that overlap of interest where you can both join in on that thing that really matters and you're about of your friendship because that's going to be more inspiring to get that time back together.

49:17People don't spend enough time thinking about the delight piece. Like there's so much buildup of finding the time, finding the place. I offer a lot of exercises to help people understand like how to talk to their friends. One of the biggest mistakes I see is offering unsolicited advice. And that's something that can really distance a friend, distance a friendship or cool a friendship. If you dominate your friend, if you say, you know what, you should do this. You should go here. You should go to Target and buy your socks. You should go here. And one of the most delicious things about friendship is it's one of the only relationships we have between equals.

49:59You know, almost every other relationship has these power dynamics, our boss, our employees, our children, our parents, but friendships are equals. And if you start dominating your friend, here's what you should do. Here's what I wouldn't do. I would do that. Your friend is going to feel like this isn't what I'm looking for. This is unbalanced. so I know another thing is venting or dominating your time with venting without being mindful and asking for consent like hey Johnny can I can I vent for five minutes about the bad day I'm having and then sticking to the five minutes getting making sure is it a good time for you for me to vent like all those little decisions that tell your friend I value you I value your time and we're we're on the same playing field

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51:38And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. A lot of our clients have expressed frustration around taking on the therapist's role in friendships that aren't working any longer. Because that venting phenomenon, you know, it feels it's so fraught right now for us to find those healthy places to do it. And when we then reconvene, it's just easy to fall into that. Like, let me just get all this off my chest. Like, I'm with someone that I know, like, and trust a lot. You're my friend.

52:13And when we're doing that repeatedly, it wears on the relationship. And I know I've done it and pushed friends away. And I know I've been on the receiving end of it and felt like this really isn't working for me anymore. It's just a deep vent session where I'm an unpaid therapist. I really want a friendship where, yeah, we can both bring our authentic selves. but we're supporting each other and we're sharing the good and the bad. And it's not just one note. Yeah. And to be mindful of it, of listen, I have five minutes. Let me take three sips of this wine and then I'll shut up about my boss and then stick to it.

52:48And then your friend, it builds up trust. It builds, it's you telling your friend, I recognize that this is your free time and you are listening to me and then say, thank you for listening. You know, thank you for being such a good listener. What's new with you? One mistake people make is when a friend shares something challenging, you want to offer your experience to show that you empathize, but you run the risk of taking over the focus of the conversation to be, you know, a friend who just got dumped of like, oh my God, I got dumped. It was so horrible. Remember I had to move home and it was really hard.

53:24And then you're off on a tangent about how horrible your time was instead of, oh my God, that's so horrible. I've been done before. So what are the next steps? Like, what can I do to help you? And subtly turning it back to the friend who's in distress. And I just wanted to make people aware of these little quirks that we do in our conversations that, um, that, that really, that might distance people. And you may not know it because you think you're empathizing, you think you're listening, but that's not what friends are looking for. You know, a lot of ways it's the best intentions, but it's poor communication that drives a wedge between your relationships.

54:02Like you can care deeply about this person and you can think that giving all of your experience and advice is going to help them overcome this massive challenge that they keep venting to you about. When in reality, their experience is different than yours. You hung on to one detail and then started making assumptions and said, okay, I've been through this exact thing. And that's not what someone who's on the receiving end of that challenge wants to hear and feel in that moment from someone that they might be venting to just out of safety, where they don't have any other opportunity in their life to share this.

54:34And we focus a lot in our program around trying to recognize those emotional bits. You know, Dr. John Gottman's work around romantic relationships, but they are foundational to every relationship in our life. And when we can turn towards those emotional bits, when people are sharing the things that really matter to them, we strengthen those relationships in our life. And that's a big skill, recognizing and turning towards emotional bids in your friendships that really deepen and strengthen those relationships. Oh, my friends are great for that. Like, you know, I give some examples of bids in my book about, you know, what newsletters are you enjoying?

55:10What podcast have you been listening to? Like, that's a great way to deepen a connection with a friend of what are we going to talk about? Like, what are you into? What movies have you been seeing? I want to watch a good documentary. Have you watched anything lately? Like those are all great, more effective messages than, hey, I miss you, man. Like thinking of you like that sounds like I don't know what to do with that. And close the loop. Yes. Like I miss you. Have you seen any good movies? I want to watch a new movie this weekend. And then you can be in touch about the movie of here's what I thought.

55:41That that part, the closing the loop is so important. What did you enjoy about that movie? What did you enjoy about that podcast episode that your friend shared with you? to showcase that you did listen. Because again, we're turning towards the emotional bit. If you're seeking what people in your life are enjoying and they want to share, and then you're not closing the loop, you're not turning towards that emotional bit, well, they're going to be less likely to share anything with you. Like I get annoyed too. And it's just like, okay, I'm now your sommelier. I'm picking your movies for you. I'm giving you all these restaurant recommendations.

56:12Did you even go to that sushi spot in Tokyo? Does it matter? It's very easy to solicit this information, but close the loop, share with your friend, appreciate their recommendation appreciate why you enjoyed that podcast too oh my can i share you guys one of my favorite texts for studying friendship yes it's hollywood walk of fame speeches they're fantastic for understanding how friendships develop one of my favorite hollywood walk of fame speeches is at guy fieri's speaking of triple d guy fieri's hollywood walk of Fame. He's getting a star. And Matthew McConaughey gives a four minute speech about their friendship.

56:51And Matthew McConaughey says that they started their friendship because McConaughey was in an airstream traveling the country, watching Triple D. And he wanted to know where should I eat in Spokane this week? I'm going to be here. So we called up Guy Fieri and said, hey, I'm going to be in Spokane. Where should I eat? Just like you said, a bid. And Guy Fieri said, oh my God, you should go here, here, here. And then Matthew McConaughey said, Hey, I'm going to be in Tucson. Where should I eat? And that's how they developed their friendship. That was the clear and compelling about is where do we eat on the road?

57:21But then they got together in LA and they bonded over their deeper values of family, fame, spirituality, and that's how their friendship deepened. And that's how they became best friends. And they're off playing bongos together. like you know there's photographic evidence of them bongling but um it started with that about what are we going to talk about roadside eateries of course you talk about it with Guy Fieri and that is exactly to your point of starting with newsletters starting with things not newsletters starting with bids and growing from there just like my friend who started with comic books and then you know then he's saving his friend's life like this is how friendships work put this knowledge to use in your own life.

58:07As we wrap, I know that a lot of the reasons that a lot of, one of the main reasons that a lot of our clients join us is because they're feeling their friendships are stale, imbalanced, they want a fresh start in their social life. And you recommend a cleanse in the book that I think is a great starting point for a lot of us who might be feeling that malaise around relationships and want to know where to get started to start to build better relationships in their life. So can you just walk us through, at least the first few days of the cleanse, what can our audience do to start to reset their modern friendships?

58:40That's a great question. To reset your modern friendships, I highly recommend understanding which friends belong in which tier and understanding that, some friendships are active, some are more nostalgic. It doesn't mean that the friendship is dead. It just means there's not a compelling reason that you guys need to stay in touch very often right now. We aren't told this in pop culture, but we can negotiate our friendships. You can say, I want to spend more time with you. I miss you. What's important to you? I want to help. People tend to keep those around that help and care about what they care about.

59:23That's how people work. That's how they make decisions about their time. So work with that. some of the suggestions are really just classifying your friends and understanding the different roles that you play for each other. Tom Rath wrote a great book called Vital Roles and he goes into the eight different roles that our closest friends play for us. Play for us. I just had a list. I felt like a little kid again. The vital roles that our friends play for us and when you understand the role that your friends play for you and the roles you play for them, what that does is removes uncertainty. And that's important because uncertainty creates anxiety.

1:00:06Like, do you know why your best friend keeps you around? Can you articulate it? And it's like, oh, well, she's my collaborator. We always try new things together. You know, my husband's my companion. I go out for dinner with him. I live a life with him. One of my best friends is my navigator. I go to her for advice. So when you have the language of understanding which roles your friends are playing, it'll give you permission to invest in the friendship of, well, of course I want to spend time with her. She's my mind opener. She introduces me to new bands. Johnny, I'm sure you have all sorts of mind openers in your world of people who show you like cool, newest, cutting edge things that you're going to be geeked out about.

1:00:47And that's what your friendship's about is we share like these, you know, I have a friend who we talk about NASA discoveries. And I love that. Like he's my person I go to talk about NASA with. And, you know, my cleanse is designed to be very low lift. All of my advice is, you know, for fairly lazy people who don't want to change a lot about themselves. Like that's my goal is I'm not telling you you have to be a whole brand new person. But I'm telling you that maybe the way you think about these relationships can change and think like, I already have amazing friends that I like. How can I spend more time with them?

1:01:27You know, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just have to understand, you know, how your circle looks the way it does, like why it looks like that. So then when you start making new friends, you'll give it the best chance to, you know, develop in a really beautiful way. We love that. And we know that when we start to think different, we behave different and show up in new ways for these friends that matter in our life. Thank you so much for joining us. Where can our audience find out about the book? Oh, my gosh. Modern friendship is everywhere books are sold. I'm so enormously proud of this book.

1:02:01I have I've interviewed over 100 people for it. There's all sorts of experiences represented. I interviewed men for it too. And I really want people to use this as a tool to diagnose what they're seeing and also to feel empowered that there's a way forward. Like your best friendships are ahead of you. That's how I really feel like they're ahead of you. Go get them. I'm also on Instagram at Anna Goldfarb and I have a sub stack called friendship explained at Anna Goldfarb.substack.com. and it was described as wise and silly, which is basically my brand. So it's wise and silly. I got you. I love it.

1:02:44Well, thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

1:02:56And now some special words from one of our X Factor Accelerator members. Take it away, Zach. Hi, my name is Zach. and I'm an educator who's always seeking opportunities to challenge myself and grow, which is why I decided to enroll in the Unstoppable course offered by Art of Charm. This course has had a profound impact on me, offering incredible content and personalized support from the entire AOC team. I've particularly enjoyed the comfort zone challenges, which have expanded my limits. I even got the whole family dancing in random public places like no one is watching. Most importantly, that's strengthened our bond and been spun.

1:03:35What sets this quarter apart is its foundation in acceptance and commitment therapy, or ACT. Always focus on action. I'm eager to take the next step in my development by joining the X Factor Accelerator. I'm hungry for more. If you're considering joining, I assure you the benefits are real. The AOC team is committed to their promises and offer genuine support throughout the journey. I'm confident that investing time, money, and energy in this course will be worth it for you, just like it has for me and my family. Best of luck. Thank you, Zach. It was an honor and a pleasure working with you too.

1:04:12And good luck to you and all of your future endeavors. If you've gotten value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It would mean the world to us and it helps others find the show. before we head out a huge thank you to our producers michael harold and eric montgomery until next week go out there and crush it

1:04:57I'm black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh, yeah, I remember you You were black, black, black But I found you all the way