3 Steps to Move from Stress to Strength | Jon Rosemberg

26:05People are like, yeah, you can thrive and be more successful. I would say they're both important. We all want to be successful. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be successful. But I think there is a point in which the Venn diagram of thriving and success, when those two intersect in a way that it's balanced, then we're actually really thriving. when we let success overtake everything else, then we're giving up meaning and we're giving up relationships and we're giving up the things that make life worth living, or at least that's what the philosophers would say. I think in a hyper-capitalistic world that many of our listeners are living in, and media and marketing share a very clear narrative of what thriving is.

26:48It's consumerism, it's gaining more resources, it's gaining the status so that other people think you're thriving, not tapping into what it actually means to thrive for you. And I think so often we then confuse that with I need to be happy all the time. I need to get everything I want. That's thriving. Not feel any emotions that I don't want to wrestle with or not feel those anxieties or inauthentic. That's thriving. When in actuality, thriving is about being able to manage all of that, having the psychological flexibility to handle what's next on the road because life is not just one joyous experience.

27:24Life is a range of experiences and the better that you can handle and manage those experiences, that's really to me the definition of thriving. So I'd love to unpack a bit more of the science that our audience might not be aware of because I think that idea of thriving has been corrupted by marketing and media quite a bit. AJ, you said something there that's really powerful and it's the systems that we are engaging with or the systems that we live our lives within and how capitalism. Listen, let's be fair. Capitalism is the best system known to humanity so far. It's given us access to food more than any other generation has had access to clean water, to education.

28:08Listen, 100 years ago, we would not be having this conversation because the average lifespan was 32. Now it's more than double that. So it's given us this idea of consumption and the system that's built everything that we're seeing today, it's been really powerful. And I think at some point, maybe it starts being too much, right? Maybe the system starts running us instead of serving us in order to achieve the things that we want to achieve as a species. The big question I think we see in political circles, a lot of the debate is that you're either a capitalist and a Democrat, or you're behind the democratic system of government or you're a socialistic communist and you want a dictatorial government and coming from Venezuela, I can identify with that very, very well.

28:53I think the question is, what's beyond that? What's the evolution of the systems that we've currently that we're currently living in? And I think just questioning that might be really powerful and might give us more collective agency as a group. Johnny, keeping track of all my old financial accounts across multiple apps and an outdated spreadsheet is just such a hassle. Between old 401ks, sub-savings accounts, and multiple investment platforms that I opened and forgot about, there's just something so fulfilling about seeing all of your numbers visualized in just one place. That's where Monarch comes in.

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31:20Sign up for your free trial today at shopify.com. That's shopify.com. Go to shopify.com and make this Black Friday one to remember. it. Everyone can agree no system is perfect. Many of our audience members are super analytical engineers, and they wouldn't have a job if systems just worked and were perfect. We always recognize that there's in any system, there's going to be things that work for us and things that don't serve us. But the more important thing in mustering the ability in those moments to recognize, hey, this isn't serving me in this area. How can I move closer to thriving for me and not get so caught up in what other people are doing through memetics, what media and the culture is telling me is important to me, but really tapping into their own intuition and what's important to them.

32:09And we have a range of clients who their definitions of thriving are completely different. And that's totally awesome. That's what makes you you. And I think that's important to recognize, too. This notion that thriving can be different for each of us is really important. And it also applies to the different pathways to thriving. So we hear a lot of advice on how you thrive, right? Go to the cryogenic chamber or whatever that is. Or, you know. Ice baths. Ice baths. And listen, I'm a fan of ice baths. But what I'm suggesting is that we have to think about the person activity fit. What is the fit for you?

32:49I tried meditation, I think, for a couple of years. I have one of those meditation pillows here. on my floor. And I hated it. And it was horrible. And every time I sat down to meditate, it was painful for me. And then one day, somebody sent me an app and they said, oh, they do walking meditations. I'm like, what's that? So I started listening to a walk in meditation. And now I have a walk in meditation practice that works really, really well for me. And I can be on a two hour walk, just just being present and being aware of my thoughts and practicing this awareness. But for each of us, it's different.

33:24So I think one of the things that I wanted to do with the book is instead of offering prescriptions and saying, if you only do these five things, you'll be fine, was offering a lot of descriptions, a lot of ideas. So like this idea of we are not our thoughts or emotions are messengers, right? Like these are important ideas that have not yet made it to the mainstream. And I think once we start shifting our beliefs and we start opening space there, that can be really powerful leading to change and it can help us find the practices that work best for us. There is a duality to beliefs and belonging.

34:04And I think that causes some anxiety amongst many of our listeners and many of our clients that on the one hand, we know how deeply connection impacts our health and how important it is to our lives. And at the same time, some of what we're talking about here as beliefs, not only the outside of the mainstream, but, you know, there are a lot of other people who haven't even encountered them. And that creates this inauthenticity in us that can create anxiety around socializing. So how do we deal with that delicate interplay between belief and belonging? I like the word authenticity that you brought in more than the word belief here.

34:41I think that the tension between authenticity and belonging is one that most of us experience, right? We spend all this time getting to know ourselves. And this is the identity that feels authentic to me. And then we move in circles or spaces where that is not accepted. So what does that tell us? What does that mean for us? And how do we challenge that? What I think, AJ and John, is that it's about understanding, seeing it as spectrums as opposed to binaries. And that's a really difficult thing to do. But once we start seeing it, I can be ex-authentic. Yeah, it's okay to sacrifice authenticity sometimes in order to belong.

35:26But if there's awareness attached to that sacrifice, then it's intentional and it's agentic. If you're just doing it without even considering it or without even thinking about it, it can be really, really painful because you end up contorting yourself to belong. And that's not very helpful. And, you know, and we hear in the science, we know that belonging is really important. The research is telling us that belonging for humans is really important. But what kind of belonging, right? So on the opposite side, belonging can be really useful. It's interesting. I think for the first time in human history, we have the opportunity to choose not to belong because it's the first time that somebody can get a job right out of college and get some money in the bank, rent an apartment, assuming you can pay rent.

36:15But let's just continue with the hypothetical here and never see a person. You can have your food delivered. You can do your calls on Zoom. You can never actually interact with a person. So if we chose to do so, and we know that this has a lot of negative health impacts, mental and physical, but if we chose to do so, we could decide not to belong ever again to anything, right? Like that is available to us in some sort of way. But belonging can provide a lot of really positive things. So finding this balance, again, just like we were talking about the balance between thriving and success, finding the balance between authenticity and belonging, I think it's really important.

36:55and it requires a lot of self-exploration, or at least that's my experience. Many of us, when we start to recognize that there are beliefs that have been instilled in us, that have been culturally present, that now we recognize, oh, I can actually change my beliefs and that has a huge impact on my actions and outcomes in my life. We start to question where those beliefs came from. And especially for a lot of our clients, it becomes easy to take the lone wolf path, as we call it, where you just start to remove yourself from people who don't share the same beliefs. You create judgment around others for having those different beliefs now.

37:29And you do isolate yourself in a way that really does harm you, as we talked about physically, mentally, and even with a lot of regret and being so disconnected. So that authenticity conflict that we're feeling around these beliefs, I think it is key to recognize that there's a spectrum and you can hold space for someone having those other beliefs without having to justify your own or without having to get into conflict over them. You brought up a point that I want people to understand, that the beliefs that you have, where they come from, certainly culture, but they're not coherent. If you haven't done work on yourself to understand or set yourself to be ideologically clean without all of these contradictions living in your head.

38:20The belief system that you have is music, earworms, sayings from Seinfeld, bad movie, one-liners that you hear. And all of these things just lay in your mind and then are active at certain points in your life, creating contradiction throughout your life that you're fighting with. And for a lot of our clients, we do a lot of work and getting everyone set and connecting them back to what matters to them, their core values and begin there. I know what happened in my life when I discovered my core values and started to look at everything in my life. And did they correspond with them? Are they in the actions that I'm taking?

39:06Do they align with my core values? And then once I recognized that they didn't, my whole life shifted. and then to make new decisions based on those core values, how much better I felt, how lighter I felt, how much freer I felt to take new and make new decisions and paths in my life. Cold mornings, holiday plans on the calendar. This is when I want my wardrobe to be simple. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, you actually wear. That's Quint's. And the bonus, Quint's pieces make great gifts too. This season's lineup is smart. Mongolian cashmere sweaters for 50 bucks that feel like everyday luxury.

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42:26Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit to help you get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash charm. Just go to Indeed.com slash charm right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed from this podcast. Indeed.com slash charm. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed. John, you hit the nail on the head. When you're talking about beliefs, they're like lenses, right? through which we see the world. And most of our beliefs operate below the conscious mind, right?

43:09They operate at the subconscious level because we don't have the time to, you know, you're at a store and you're like, well, some people do, but, you know, can I really shine a light on all of my beliefs before I choose product one or product two? What I'm suggesting here is that agency is the ability to shine a light on those beliefs, actually challenge them, and then make a different decision that we would traditionally make. So I look at agency as a spectrum. There's like low agency. I have no choice here. And then there's a little bit higher agency, which is I have a choice here. I can pick product A or product B.

43:44Or there's really high agency, which is there's a multitude of products here. And I don't have to pick from A or B. The world is my oyster kind of thing. And I think that's really important. And that work of looking inward and shining a light on the beliefs and bringing them from the subconscious to the conscious mind is really powerful work. And it can be life transforming. It absolutely is. Much of what we're talking about here impacts all of our interpersonal relationships. So those beliefs create patterns of withdrawal, seeking external validation, people pleasing. and many of us don't even recognize that those behaviors are emanating from that subconscious belief or a childhood experience or trauma that we faced that now in that survival mode we're using to protect ourselves from feeling alone feeling unaccepted removing that sense of belonging in our life so i'd love to start to recognize and unpack this for the relationship piece, because that's really the unlock for so many of our clients.

44:48I think achievement and success and a lot of what they're driven towards, they're recognizing the power, the blind spot for many of our listeners. And we found with many of our clients is then, oh, wow, this is impacting my relationships, too. Like, I think because I'm getting ahead and because I'm finding success in other areas that, oh, this doesn't really matter. But in the interpersonal relationship realm, It matters greatly. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that when your clients shift from survival mode into thriving, their relationships improve. And as a result of it, the relationships with those relationships improve.

45:26And there's like a ripple effect that occurs. And we know this from the research that happiness begets happiness. And communities that have positive emotions are communities that beget positive emotions. And the other way is also the same case. I think the point that you're making, AJ, about relationships being a lot of these beliefs that come up for us come up in relationship. So with our caregivers or with the TV shows that we watch or whatever that looks like, a lot of these beliefs come in relationship. And the way we get to explore them is in relationship as well. I think, listen, journaling can be a really powerful tool.

46:02In my experience working with clients, it is in the conversations, in the presence, in the listening, in the human connection that you actually see thriving, starting to emerge. One thing that we've recognized with a lot of our clients who are in this survival mode is that overactive nervous system, that heightened state, that survival instinct often gets us completely out of our body. We're unaware of sensations. And because of that, we might not even be recognizing all the emotions that are creating turmoil in our life. So what are some practices that we can do to start to relax that nervous system that the survival mechanism puts into overdrive?

46:44Just acknowledging that your nervous system may be activated, just the awareness of it. And I think you mentioned naming it as well, right? Like naming the emotion or the experience that you're having in the moment. Just that awareness will already start to diffuse the state, the activated state. And that can be really helpful. Of course, there are other practices like physical activity. We know, you know, being in connection with others or talking to somebody. There are many practices that can work. I think it all starts first by acknowledging my nervous system is activated and there's a coping mechanism that's at play here.

47:21There's a coping mechanism that is kicking in order to protect me. Let's think about coping mechanisms, not as limitations that we have, but as adaptations. Because in the moment, one thing that I see really often is using humor as a way to diffuse tension. That's a coping mechanism that a lot of us use. I'm a big user of that one. That is something that served me really, really well through most of my life. But I'm at a point now in which in a lot of the conversations, bringing in humor actually diffuses attention that can be really useful in order to drive creativity and to drive the process forward.

48:01So I've had to actually become aware of that coping mechanism that I have of using humor to diffuse a tense situation, actually sit with the discomfort and say, hey, humor, I'm grateful to you because you've helped me a lot throughout my life. I wouldn't be here without you. And now I can release you and I can work with it. I can approach this situation that I'm dealing with in a different way. And I think that's really powerful. And it all stems from a place of self-compassion. And as we just talked about, that's one of the hardest types of compassions we have. It's funny, we can walk on the street and have a lot of compassion for people who are without a home or people who are suffering.

48:39But when it comes to ourselves, we tend to hold ourselves to a higher standard than everybody else, often an impossible standard. we've seen in our clients time and time again is that inner critic now being heightened through a lot of this recognition so you recognize now that these beliefs have been flawed and they've created patterns in your life that have held you back that have made your goals unattainable or taken you off course or harmed your relationships and then there's this desire to then go inward and critique yourself harshly and allow that inner critic to now drive worse actions for yourself So what can we do to start to manage that inner critic when we now feel so vulnerable recognizing that, wow, these cognitive distortions have taken me off course or how these beliefs from childhood have really impacted me negatively and harmed my relationships with other people that I care about?

49:32recognizing it and giving it some space and understanding where that inner critic is coming from is really helpful because we often try to, oh, there's that inner critic again, that pesky inner critic trying to ruin my life. But that inner critic is there for a reason. And I bet you in the past, it served you in one way or another, right? For me in the corporate world, the inner critic was like, it's never good enough. It's never good enough. It's never good deck, which I think now I can make it much faster, much better than I ever did. But I would spend hours working on a PowerPoint deck and it was fine.

50:11It was fine probably after hour two. But after hour 25, I was like, oh, no, I just got to get the numbers right. And so he helped me at one point in my life. And now I realize that it's no longer serving me because the PowerPoint deck doesn't really matter. Right. Or it only matters up to a certain point. There are things that matter most. Maybe those extra 20 hours I spent could have spent building relationships with the people that I work with and creating connections that are meaningful and that are actually going to drive not only the human value, the relational value, but also the productive value of the business.

50:46So I think it's important to use that reframe and say, these patterns that I have that have served me so well for so long may not be serving me as well anymore. And if you out that little tiny bit of doubt to slip in into your mind, it can open a whole world of change. When you're making that PowerPoint presentation and you want it to be perfect and you're spending all of this time. There's a question that you have to ask yourself. Who are you making this perfect for? Are you making it perfect for the client? Do they care if the number's right? Or do they care that the goals are going to be met at the end of the presentation and when it's implemented?

51:36Or are those numbers right so that no one in the office scoffs at you because you missed the numbers? and something in music we call these happy accidents that happen in the studio that you hear that you hate but then again that's what made your record great or for instance i think a lot of people experience this in shows social media where people you'll make a video it does incredibly well everyone's calming up commenting on it everyone is sharing it but yet there's people in it complaining about you misspelled this in the caption or on your text heading. And it's like, are you seeing how well this video is doing and how it's affecting the people watching it?

52:23I didn't make this for you. I made it for this exact objective and it's accomplishing its goals. And what happens there is that it's the human element that had made it able to connect. And so if you're putting a presentation together that needs to make your target, your client feel something and get excited. We don't care about the numbers. They don't matter. What matters is the emotions touch them to where they're excited and back on the page and excited to implement whatever strategies are put in that presentation. It's an interesting thought, this idea of how we tend to focus this negativity bias that kicks in.

53:07And if we're on social media or if we're giving a presentation, our mind will go exactly to everything that went wrong. And then we'll look externally for the validation for everything that went right. And we become really hard on ourselves. And I think once we start realizing... So in the book, I talk a lot about transcendence. So I did some work. My master's research was on psychedelic-assisted therapy, which I find is a tremendous breakthrough in science, also dangerous and something to be managed with care. And we can expand on that a little bit more. But one of the things that can help us break through and change our beliefs is this notion of self-transcendence, of seeing beyond the self, understanding there's a much bigger world out there, right?

53:56That we are this tiny little planet. If we're lucky, we're here, what? A hundred years? and hopefully 120 now with all the advances in medicine. We'll see how long we're here. But Earth has been around for 4 billion years, right? So from a time perspective, we're a speck of dust. Now put that in the context of 2 trillion galaxies plus in the universe, right? So when you put it that way, who cares about the presentation or the social media comment, right? There's this another paradox that rises here that everything is so insignificant And yet we are so lucky of the miracle that we are alive on this planet.

54:35We haven't found life like ours anywhere else in the universe. This is a pretty incredible thing that we can be talking on this podcast and having this conversation and debating ideas. It's awe-inspiring where we are as humanity. And we see miracles in real life every day now that we would have never imagined just 100 years ago. So I think getting that perspective can be a really helpful way to frame it. I want to point out that there is something going on here in that work context that, again, many of us might not be aware of. And I know you talked about making the shift yourself. many in our audience are moving into leadership roles or in leadership roles.

55:16And this top down directive leadership can create that self-doubt around a simple mistake and getting whacked over the head and doing another 20 hours of work on a PowerPoint that does not really matter. But it's oftentimes because of directive leadership that we feel that any one of those mistakes could cost us our job, could cost us an opportunity. and moving that to collaborative leadership, where we're actually bringing some vulnerability into the equation here and we're allowing other people to participate. So that vulnerability might be the mistake or the error in the number on the PowerPoint, but what's actually achieved through the collaborative leadership is far greater than the top-down directive leadership that many of us are encountering.

55:59So how did you make that shift and what can our audience take from that?

56:12Yeah, so I think it's really important first to acknowledge that the system was built for directive leadership, right? The system is built to extract as much productivity as it can from each of us, right? Now that's hitting a wall because AI can be, when it comes to cognitive processes, AI is we've already, I've already raised the white flag. In the past, when I was coming up through the rents, it was like the smartest guy in the room, he's the one or she's the one or they are the one who are going to climb through the ladder and who are going to do great things, right? Today, I think cognitive power matters a lot less because AI thinks when it comes to traditional like cognitive just processing and analyzing data or tying it together, It's much faster than us.

56:57It doesn't sleep. It doesn't feel. So this idea, so I think that's going to disrupt the system dramatically. And I also think that the system is built because the system is built to extract productivity from us. It's going to do it in whichever way seems the most efficient. I have been in environments where people are expendable and people, you just run through them. You're like, if they burn out, we'll bring in somebody else. Literally, these conversations are being had in rooms across the world. And then we know that some of the best companies in the world have taken a different approach, which is we invest in our people and we cultivate the talent and we cultivate the leadership.

57:39And that has gone them really far. But they're both working. When you are measuring the success of a venture through the P &L to the profit line, when you're measuring it through the value that you generate, they both work. Now, I would argue there was a recent study from Oxford that came out last year that was comparing, I think it was 1 ,200 or 1 ,300 companies. And they asked questions about the well-being of the employees and compared them to stock price or stock valuation, the valuation of the organization. And on average, companies where well-being was higher had a 37 percent higher valuation than companies where it was lower, which is a pretty big deal.

58:24So I think the tide is shifting. But so far, first of all, I want to empathize with your listeners because I have been there. I know what it's like to work under a directive leader that effectively stripes you of your agency and your autonomy. And that can be really, really painful. And what I would suggest is Viktor Frankl said that even in the most difficult situations, we have this space to choose our attitude. It's practicing the capacity of agency, learning to develop the skill of awareness, inquiry and reframing, which allows us to deal with even the toughest. Viktor Frankl was in Nazi concentration camps, so it's a bit of an extreme case.

59:05But for us who are experiencing this survival mode on a daily basis, agency can be a really good way to get some air into our lungs. Thank you so much for stopping by. We appreciate the acronym and all of the great learnings and science you shared with us today. Where can our audience find out more about your book and the work that you do? You can go to guidetothriving.com. That's the website or find me on LinkedIn or Instagram with we've trashed social media a little bit, but I am active. And John, it was really hard to post my first video. Very hard. I was sweating profusely. So, yeah, you can follow me on social media or guide to thriving dot com.

59:46Those are the two places. And the book is available anywhere you get your books. Thank you for joining us today, John. Thank you. I appreciate the time and the space to have this conversation.

1:00:03Thank you for joining us for another fantastic episode of the Art of Charm podcast. This is the part where we celebrate one of our X Factor members. Take it away, Clint. This is Clint, and I'm in capital sales, and I'm a former X Factor student. I joined X Factor because I felt I needed more personal and professional growth. I considered myself successful in my career, but when it came to having conversations with customers, I felt I wasn't building relationships to their full potential. I then started noticing I was having similar shortfalls in personal relationships. Additionally, I felt a confidence void in certain situations, and I was hoping I could improve on that as well.

1:00:46Through the work I did at X Factor and the core confidence course, I was able to improve on both of these areas of my life. And since completing the X Factor, I've transitioned to a new position and the skills learned helped me securing an approximate 30 % increase in pay. So to any guy who considers himself a driven individual, but feels he's not quite achieving all he thinks is possible in his current situation, I'd say look hard at joining X Factor. It sure did great things for me. Thank you, Clint. It was a pleasure and an honor working with you too, sir. and good luck to all of your future endeavors.

1:01:26If you found value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It means the world to us and it helps others find the show. Now everyone, go out there and have a very epic week.

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