5 Communication Secrets That Will Make People Respect You & Love You

13 Nov 2023 · 59 min

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In short

Podcast Notes: The Art of Charm - Episode: 5 Communication Secrets That Will Make People Respect You & Love You

Episode Overview In this episode of The Art of Charm, hosts Johnny and AJ delve into the nuances of effective communication with insights from five elite communication experts. The discussion focuses on actionable strategies that can enhance interpersonal relationships and foster respect and love through better communication practices.

Featured Guests

  • Dr. Carole Robin: Stanford Graduate School of Business, expert in interpersonal dynamics.
  • Chuck Wisner: Author of "The Art of Conscious Conversations".
  • Karen Wickre: Author of "Taking the Work Out of Networking".
  • Jonah Berger: Professor at Wharton School, author of "Magic Words" and several bestsellers on influence.
  • Susan McPherson: Author of "The Lost Art of Connecting".

Key Concepts Discussed

  1. The Importance of Open-Ended Questions
  2. Open-ended questions encourage deeper dialogue and connection.
  3. Example of effective questioning: Instead of asking "Do you have questions?" use "What questions do you have?"
  1. The Role of Vulnerability in Communication
  2. Vulnerability fosters trust and openness in conversations.
  3. Using the 15% Rule: Gradually reveal more about yourself to encourage reciprocal sharing.
  1. Active Listening
  2. Active Listening: Fully engage in the conversation by eliminating distractions (e.g., phones).
  3. Listening involves not just hearing words but also understanding emotions and context.
  1. Language Matters
  2. The pronouns used can shape conversations. "I" statements foster connection while "you" statements may feel accusatory.
  3. Replace why questions with what questions to avoid defensiveness and encourage sharing.
  1. The Dynamics of Conflict
  2. Conflict is inevitable in close relationships; it can be an opportunity for growth.
  3. Understanding the three realities of communication:
  4. My intent
  5. What I say and do
  6. How that lands on you

Actionable Steps to Improve Communication

  • Break the Question Train Habit: Engage in dialogue by sharing as well as questioning.
  • Master the Skill of Listening: Practice focused listening in low-distraction environments.
  • Constructive Feedback: Use feedback to convey intent and move towards problem-solving rather than assigning blame.
  • Practice Vulnerability: Share small parts of your experiences and feelings to deepen connections.

Key Takeaways

  • Effective communication is rooted in mutual respect and requires active participation from both parties.
  • Emotions play a crucial role in how messages are received and interpreted; always express the emotional context.
  • Building high-value relationships takes time, patience, and practice from both sides.

Conclusion This episode provides rich insights into the art of communication, emphasizing that with the right tools and understanding, one can foster deeper connections and enhance relationships both personally and professionally. The skills discussed are crucial for anyone looking to improve their social dynamics and interpersonal relationships.

Call to Action Listeners are encouraged to engage with the content, implement these strategies in their daily interactions, and consider joining the X-Factor Accelerator Program for further development in communication skills.

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*For more resources and insights, visit [The Art of Charm](https://theartofcharm.com).*

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2:18You'll never touch another spreadsheet again. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use code charm at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50 % off your first year at monarch.com with code charm. Johnny and AJ here. Hey, your success is killing you. All right. Now that I have your attention, let us explain a couple of things. Loneliness and isolation have become the latest epidemic in adults, young and old. Some of you haven't been back into office since COVID, and you're losing out in your day-to-day interactions. Unfortunately, its health effects have shown to be the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.

2:56Now that doesn't mean you have zero friends. It means you lack quality relationships outside of your immediate family. If you're not actively maintaining your network, it's shrinking, but there's something you can do about it. After coaching over 10 ,000 clients on how to master social confidence, we've learned a thing or two about what it actually takes to spark an instant connection with someone. We've packaged these insights into our download called the Instant Connection Kit. And as a thank you for being a podcast listener, we wanted to give you this kit for free. Inside the Instant Connection Kit, you'll get three resources to help you build out your network and win friends right now.

3:31These resources include our popular conversation formula, small talk conversation starters, and a resource to understand emotional bids. To get your hands on this kit and immediately start improving your relationships, go to theartofcharm.com slash instant. Remember, you could do something about your loneliness or isolation today. Start with our instant connection kit at theartofcharm.com slash instant. Welcome to the Art of Charm podcast, where we break down the science of powerful communication and winning mindsets so you have the cheat code to succeed with people. Every episode is jam-packed with actionable steps to unlock the hidden superpowers inside of you.

4:13Level up with us each week by listening to interviews with the best in business, psychology, and relationships. We distill thousands of hours of research in the most effective tools and the latest science so you can start winning today. Let's face it, in order to be seen and heard, your communication needs to cut through the noise, and we're going to show you how. I'm AJ, successfully recovered introvert, entrepreneur, and self-development junkie. And I'm Johnny Zubak, former touring musician, promoter, rock and roller, and co-founder here at The Art of Charm. And for the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of top performers and teams from every background.

4:47We have dedicated our lives to teaching men and women all they need to know about communication, networking, and relationships. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. Now let's kick off today's show. Over the last 16 years, we've hosted incredible guests and experts in communication. And today we have a compilation episode of the best strategies to influence and connect with anyone. In today's episode, we share five communication secrets that will make people love and respect you. We welcome five elite communication experts to unpack these simple strategies to win friends and influence people in 21st century.

5:23We have Dr. Carol Robin, who's been teaching the legendary course, Interpersonal Dynamics, at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Chuck Wisner, the author of The Art of Conscious Conversations. Karen Wickery, the author of Taking the Work Out of Networking. Jonah Berger, professor at Wharton School, the author of several bestselling books on influence and social dynamics, including Magic Words. And Susan McPherson, the author of The Lost Art of Connecting. AJ, there is tension and pressure when meeting someone for the first time. And that tension and pressure forces you into familiar patterns.

5:56Those patterns can either be beneficial or detrimental to your interactions. Now, if your conversations are fleeting or people exit your interactions, you may be guilty of falling into the question train. Break the question train habit. Here, Jonah Berger explains why both parties need to participate in the conversation by sharing. Starting safe and building only works if both of you are sort of revealing things, right? If one person reveals a little bit, it makes the other person more comfortable revealing, which makes the other person more comfortable. It builds by going back and forth. I think we all have friends.

6:31I can certainly think of one in my own life who is really interested in how my life is going, and that's great. They often ask me questions, but it's basically just like question after question after question. It's nice in some ways. It suggests that they care, but I don't really have any understanding of how they're doing. At a certain point, it feels a little bit forced. It feels almost like we're walking through an exercise rather than you're really asking how I'm doing. And so it's very important to do a little bit of that back and forth and not just ask but reveal as well. We did some interesting research.

7:02It's not in the book but about why certain conversations last longer. So we had people have a variety of conversations with people they know a little bit well. They could talk about whatever they wanted. And at any point they could move on to another conversation topic rather than sort of sticking on the same one they were on. And you touched on this a little bit, but part of a conversation lasting is both people contributing. Absolutely. We found when we measured sort of how much each person talked in a given topic, when it got too far from even, the conversation tended to die, right? On the one hand, yeah, you're showing interest in what someone else is saying, but if they're hogging all the space, either because they want to, they're a little too self-focused, or you're encouraging them to, it doesn't feel even.

7:44And so, you know, they might be happy to talk forever, but it'd be boring for you, or you keep prodding them and eventually they go, I don't know anything about you. And so it fizzles out. And so keeping it a little bit closer to even seems important for leading conversations to last. If you're asking open-ended questions and the questions that encourage answers rather than a yes or no answer, you'll deliver better quality conversations and open up dialogue. Jonah Berger explains a way of asking questions that don't suggest an answer. Example, do you have a question versus what questions do you have?

8:15There are some types of questions that assume the answer is one way or another. So there was a really nice study some researchers conducted, for example, where they asked people to imagine selling an iPad to somebody else. And when they did so, the people were asking different questions. And when people ask questions like, there are any problems with it, are there? That's a situation where it's really easy to say, nope, there are no problems, even if there's a little bit of problem or maybe it's not clear that it's a problem, right? Maybe once in a while, there's a small issue, but it's not a big problem.

8:46And if someone said there aren't any problems are there, it's really easy to go along and say no, right? Just like if you're a doctor, a nurse, or a medical professional, you know, sometimes you're seeing patient after patient. When you check somebody and you say, you don't smoke, do you? You know, you don't abuse drugs, do you? You know, you exercise once in a while, don't you? You eat your vegetables, don't you? It's really easy to go, yeah, I eat my vegetables. Yeah, I don't abuse drugs. all the things because it's hard to oppose what they're saying, but their goal actually isn't just to get you to say yes or no.

9:15Their goal is to get you to reveal that information, to be honest. And so we need to be careful of the types of questions when we ask in those situations. Instead, saying something like, to go back to the sales example, what kind of problems are there? Shows that, hey, I'm actually zeroed in on the problems. I want to learn more. And it makes it hard for someone, unless they're going to drastically lie to our face, to ignore what we're saying. I think about this a lot in the classroom. I used to say something like, are there any questions after a lecture or something along those lines? And that doesn't have an assumption baked in necessarily, but it's so common that people ask a question phrase that way that it's really easy to think I'm just being polite.

9:56And if you're a student and you have a question, but you don't want to be rude, you don't want to sort of break up the conversation, Maybe you'll just not say anything. But a colleague of mine, she does a really interesting switch there. She says, what questions do you have? And notice, that's a really subtle change, right? Do you have any questions? Are there any questions? What questions do you have? But what questions do you have says, I'm sure you have a question. What is it, right? I'm really interested in knowing what your questions are. I'm not just trying to move past this, but I want to know what your questions are.

10:28Tell me so I can answer them. So it's a great way to get people to chime in, whereas otherwise they might have kept to themselves and not given us the benefit of their question. To go along with open-ended questions is using what questions rather than why questions. This is why we practice these exact questions in our X-Factor Accelerator implementation sessions. The more you use them, the easier it gets. Carol Robin explains why why questions don't work when building a connection and why what questions are better. Well, let's go back to this whole idea that we were just exploring, which is that a lot of what we're talking about when we're connecting the way we're talking about is from the heart to the heart.

11:09Why questions tend to drive us up into our head. So why do you think that up into my head? Or even why do you feel that way into my head? Or why would you do that into my head? So not only into my head, but also it pushes me into needing to somehow justify myself or explain myself. It's much easier for me to feel judged when you ask a why question. By the way, judgment is anathema to connection. The first thing you've got to do if you want to connect to somebody else is get curious. And you can't get curious if you have already judged them. So why questions drive us up into our head and make us defensive.

11:52So instead of saying, why do you feel that way? I can say, so what's that feeling about? Or where's that feeling come from? Or when have you felt that way? Or how often do you feel that way? Any of those versions will help us deepen the conversation and not drive you into your head. And by the way, when people are crying, why are you crying might be the very worst thing you can say. What are the tears about is an infinitely better question. Well, as you were going over all the why questions, I had an emotional response of being, you know, 10 years old and being grilled of why did something terrible or stupid.

12:36my dad was trying to get to the bottom of this, but also trying to get me to think of like, what is it that made you think that this was a good idea? And of course, those ponderances have an emotional response even to this day. Well, what made you think this was a good idea is actually not a productive question. It's a hypothesis hidden in a question or a statement hidden in question form. Don't you think you were just trying to discredit Jane when you did that? It's not a question. It's certainly not an inquiry. So what was going on for you when you did that? What was the process you went through as you were trying to think it?

13:18And by the way, the question also requires if it's going to work the way we're talking about to build relationship, I think it requires making sure the other person understands your intent in asking it. I want to know because I want to know you better. I want to understand how you came to think this because I tend to think differently and I think there may be something for me to learn. So there's lots of ways in which you can engage with people and ask questions that build relationship and a few that can make sure it doesn't build. The language you use triggers certain emotions in conversations.

13:55If somebody is defensive or feeling attacked during a conversation, changing the pronoun helps avoid closing off or shutting down from your partner. Here, Jonah Berger explains I versus you pronoun use. You can be accusatory as in, did you walk the dog? And this can also be true for using it or even generalized terms. I think I heard you say it correctly, but you said, how can I help? Rather than something like, what problems do you have? And notice the subtle shift in a pronoun there, the difference between an I versus a you. We do this all the time. I'm terrible at this. But yous can feel quite accusatory, even when we don't mean them that way.

14:39So in our personal lives, if someone said, did you walk the dog? Did you file this report? Did you make dinner? You might say, well, what do you mean did I walk the dog? It's not my job to walk the dog. The person they're really asking is, did the dog get a walk? I want to know if the dog got a walk because if it did not, go give it a walk. But it can feel quite accusatory. It can feel like they're sort of singling us out. And so we need to be really careful about the way we use the word you. And I call them accusatory use because even without intending to, use can suggest blame or responsibility.

15:10And in a way we may not mean. A few years ago, I did a big study with a large consumer electronics firm where I analyzed all their help pages. So think about if your laptop breaks, you have an issue with your phone, you're trying to sync it with something else, you go to these help pages to get help. And sometimes people say this page is helpful and sometimes they say it wasn't helpful. And so I looked at the language on the page and how it linked to whether people found it to be helpful or not. And I found that the more a page used the word you, a second person pronoun like the word you, the less helpful people found it.

15:43And when I dug a little deeper, I found it was these sort of use suggesting work or blame. If your phone isn't working, you need to reboot the phone and you need to do X, Y, Z. And it feels like, well, wait, why do I have to do all that work? It's your phone that broke. It's not my phone. It's the company's phone. It's not my fault. And so being really careful about how we throw around I versus you, you can be helpful, but it can also be detrimental and make people feel singled out. To me, use can act a little bit like a stop sign. If you're scrolling through social media or looking through email, or you have a bunch of different pieces of content you're looking at, it's really easy to move from one to the next without paying attention, without opening, without looking.

16:24If something says you, it feels like they're speaking to you directly, right? You have the opportunity to do this. You might want to think about X, Y, Z. Now it feels like they're not just talking, they're talking to me in particular. And because they're talking to me in particular, I'm much more likely to listen. I even think about sort of, as you said, the God perspective or sort of cases where the you is implicit, right? So we don't use the word you, but you say something like, in situations like this, it makes sense to do that, right? What we're really saying is if you are in situations like this, it makes sense for you to do that, but that can feel, again, accusatory, blame, singling out.

17:01And so sometimes it's better to remove the you because it doesn't feel like that we're focused on a particular individual, any one particular individual. It's sort of this more generic you or even implicit you, which can avoid some of the problems that you sometimes have. It's important to note that it or God perspective, you perspective, and I perspective elicit certain emotions in conversation. Our X-Factor Accelerator implementation sessions are designed for you to practice all of them in the proper context for you to get the desired result you're looking for. Influence and persuasion begins with the words you choose to use.

17:42That's right, Johnny. Listening is the key to all communication. In it, you'll discover everything you need to know about your partner and understanding what to listen to will open doors to drawing out the emotions needed for connection. Rule number one, put your phone away. Here's Jeffrey Cohen explaining a study showing you need to put your phone away to create human connection. There's even a great study out of Liz Dunn's lab where she finds that when you bring family members and friends together and just have them put their phones away and have a conversation, they enjoy the conversation a lot more.

18:15They're much more in the present. So even at that level, just having your phone out, something in our attention is diverted from the possibility of connections that we could have. And I really do feel like, I mean, I just saw Dr. Vivek Murthy talk about this at the APA conference. It's pretty simple. We love connection. Connection is its own reward, but we are creating situations that threaten that possibility of achieving that connection. However, on the other hand, we have a lot of power in choosing our situations. I know that's what you both are doing with your clients, creating, not so much changing ourselves, that's important, but thinking about how do I choose situations that are more aligned with my values and who I want to be, who I want to become.

19:02Our X Factor Accelerator program is designed to help you listen through all five levels of listening. You are hardwired to listen to the first two. Here's Karen Wickery discussing the first level, a classic mistake when listening. You're only waiting for the moment that you can start talking. You know, I'm not sure it was a conscious thing so much, but I know, and we've all been here, we get caught out when we're not really listening, but we're waiting for our turn to talk. I mean, that's happened to me. And so then I think, okay, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be like that. So let me kind of double down and just zero in here on what you're saying.

19:43And it doesn't take... Now, you have to have the conditions for a good conversation. If it's a noisy coffee bar and you can't really hear that well, maybe that's not the place to have that sort of get to know you kind of conversation. But somewhere along the line, you want to have it where you say, I'm here for you. I really want to hear from you. And I want to know about you, you know, what's going on. It could be a concentrated period of time, but it needs to be, I'm really, I'm all here. So occasionally I have to remind myself, I'm all here. And we all know that unpleasant feeling when, you know, you're not really listening.

20:20And then someone asks you a question and you have to kind of, yeah, well, I think, you know. You know, you have to bluff through. That's not good. That's not going to advance your cause. Other levels include data and information, contextual, emotional, and what's not being said. Here is Susan McPherson discussing other common mistakes that you make. Well, we're horrible at listening. And the pandemic has made it even worse because, as you mentioned, notorious distractions, including the phone, children at our feet, pets at our feet, whatever. ever has been, but even before the pandemic. And again, I am not singling myself out as being an exceptional listener.

21:01But what I have learned is by not listening, you can't get from the ask to the do. And you actually miss, like, what if somebody told you they were giving you a million dollars, but you weren't listening? You would miss that and being facetious. But I spent some time interviewing a gentleman named Dr. Julian Treasure, who is one of the world's foremost experts in listening. In fact, he's done four or five TED Talks just on listening. So I would suggest that your listeners listen to his TED Talks. However, a couple of tips that he gave me. One is to stop our anticipatory listening. And I am guilty of this, but when I'm listening to people, I'm already so excited to get to the do, I'm already thinking about how I'm going to respond rather than just listening.

21:49Okay. The second thing is, is this is natural. When we are listening to people, our minds wander. So, you know, while you're, you're talking, I could be thinking about the Thai food I'm going to have for dinner tonight or the dishes in my sink. Um, but it is totally acceptable one to be taking notes, especially if you're in a, you know, a conversation on a, on a business or even at an event. Um, you know, I, I sometimes use my phone, but of course I say, I'm not looking at my email. I'm actually taking notes. But the other thing that I've learned is it's totally acceptable to say, you know what?

22:23I wasn't for a second. I zoned out. Do you mind AJ repeating yourself? Because that in itself is a very wonderful gift we can give to one another because first of all, it shows a bit of vulnerability, but it also is respectful, right? You caught yourself and you really want to hear that person. And, you know, 99 % of the time they won't be upset that they have to repeat themselves. They'll be happy because they want to make sure they're heard. The cable knit sweater I picked up from Quince is getting me through this cold weather. It's warm, structured, and looks way more expensive than it was.

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25:17That's$15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes when the network is busy. Capable device required. Availability speed and coverage varies. See mittmobile.com. Carol Robin has a great metaphor for thinking about developing this skill of being more sensitive towards the feelings we're sharing and feeling ourselves and the ones the other person is overtly or covertly sharing. This Art of Charm practice strategy will help you with all five levels of listening and stand out from the ordinary. That's why we talk in the book about these two antenna that are important to be interpersonally skilled.

25:53One is the antenna that picks up signals on what might be going on for the other person. And the other one is what's going on for me. And that comes back to the point I made earlier about how much you learn about yourself when you engage and create relationships like we're talking about. Because boy, if I have a big reaction to something that you've done, there's probably something for me to learn about me in observing that. Plus, if I learn to pick up on my own emotional reaction, I have more choice in what I decide to do with it. So that's the other thing. Another reason the students say it's so transformational.

26:29And, you know, I hear from my students 10 years later with not just I got promoted to be a CEO because of what I learned, but, you know, I'm pretty sure your class just saved my marriage. What I learned from you just helped me reconcile my relationship with my brother who I hadn't talked to for a year. So why? Because they've learned that these, A, that these two antenna even exist, but B, that they've learned to tune them to pick up signals that are a little more muted. And they've got a bigger toolbox with which to make informed choices before they act. AJ, there is a lot of misconstrued information about vulnerability.

27:05It is special and it should be earned. But once earned, it should be used wisely. This idea of opening up to someone else is difficult for many of us. And it's why you often are hiding who you truly are. Dr. Robin has a lot to say about this. And what are the rewards of opening up when done in the right way? We hide because we're scared. So let's talk a little bit about that fear. By the way, fear sometimes is an acronym for false expectations appearing real. It's risky. If I'm going to show you a little bit more of me, if I'm going to share a little bit more of me, it feels vulnerable. And vulnerability feels a little risky.

27:49And that's why we talk about the 15 % rule in the course and in the book, we can come back to that. And to your question, the reason that it feels risky is that we've never tested. If I show you this part of me, I'm imagining you're going to like me less. But it actually what the students discover is you like me more when I say that I feel insecure and I'm not sure if I was the admission error. Then it turns out that 80 % of my classmates feel the same way. Oh my gosh, look at that. We have so much more in common than we thought we did. And so part of the reason the course is so transformational is that as students take the risk of allowing themselves to be a little more known and discover that the parts of themselves they usually keep hidden are the parts that other people feel drawn toward and more connected to.

28:44It's like, oh, my God, I've discovered America. But of course, you know, the course is set up so and the reason that the model in the book around 15 % is so important is you don't just walk in and bleh, let me tell you everything and overwhelm the other person and then freak yourself out. So you have to learn how to do it incrementally. And you have to understand that the process of disclosure is reciprocal. If I take the first step and tell you a little bit, then you might take a reciprocal step. Tell me a little bit. And then I'll tell you a little bit more. And that's how we expand what we call our comfort zone.

29:22Our comfort zone is where we talk about, we don't think twice about what we talk about, but we don't build relationships unless we step outside it. When it comes to stepping outside of your comfort zone and being vulnerable, Carol Robin recommends following what she calls the 15 % rule. This is another skill that's practiced in our X-Factor Accelerator implementation sessions. This helps you manage the biggest question about vulnerability. How much and when? There's three concentric circles. The one in the middle, your comfort zone, you don't think twice about what you say. The one on the outside is the danger zone.

29:53In a million years, you'd never share that. And the one in the middle is your learning zone. You can't learn anything new unless you step outside your comfort zone. And that's why when you learn to ski, they don't take you to the double black diamond, but they also don't leave you on the bunny slope. So unless you step outside your comfort zone, then you're not going to learn and grow. So our students used to say, but Carol, the minute I step 15 % outside my comfort zone, how do I know I'm not in my danger zone? And I used to say, think 15%, a little bit outside your comfort zone. And it's probably small enough that you're not going to freak yourself or the other person out too badly.

30:33If things go awry, it's probably small enough that you can still kind of regroup. And then what's really interesting is that once you step 15 % outside, your comfort zone gets redrawn with that person. And now you can step 15 % beyond that, especially if they've then reciprocated by going 15 % beyond their comfort zone. And that's how relationships deepen and grow. Now, Jonah Berger shares a great example of how to use questions to disclose your vulnerabilities to elicit them in others. So here's the challenge, and you laid it out really nicely. To deepen social connections, whether to turn acquaintances into allies, whether to turn strangers into friends, or whether just to sort of get a deeper connection with those we already love, but don't talk to that often.

31:20We need to reveal a little bit about ourselves, right? If we call someone and all we say is, oh, you know, what'd you do today? What'd you do today? And we have this sort of phatic, nice kind of get to know you conversation, that's good. It doesn't hurt, but it doesn't make us feel that deep emotional connection. And so to do that, we need to reveal a little bit things about ourselves. We need to be a bit vulnerable. We need to talk about some things that show depth. But the challenge is to do that, we've got to already feel some sort of social connection, right? If you walked up to someone and you said, hey, what are three of your biggest fears?

31:54The person would be like, what? And even if it's a friend of yours and you call them up, you say, hey, guy or gal, what are you deeply worried about in your life? They'd say, I'm not going to answer that question. And so you need to sort of build a base to get to that deep revelatory stuff. So how do you do that? There's a series of questions called the fast friends paradigm, which asks a simple set of questions and then a more complicated set of questions and eventually an even deeper, more revelatory set of questions. But they lead people in sort of 45 minutes to feel more connected to anyone, whether it's a stranger initially, whether it's someone that you already know.

32:30At the end of this series of questions, you feel more like you deeply know this person. And the way it works is it starts safe and then it builds. And what do I mean by that? Well, it starts really in a very basic, simple, non-revelatory way. If you had to pick somebody to have dinner with, anyone in the world, who would it be? That's an easy question that anybody can answer that doesn't feel too revelatory. But by asking some of these initial questions, revealing some small, simple, beginning things about each other, we start to build trust. We go back and forth. I ask you, you ask me. I start to feel like I know you a little bit better.

33:06And now when we get to some more of the deep, more revelatory questions, we're both more willing to answer and play that game because we feel like we have that base to build from. And so don't start with the deep, revelatory stuff and don't end up with the really sort of just surface level things. Start surface, use that to build a base, and from that base, get to the more deeper, more revelatory type of questions. The emotions you use to describe your experiences are important to the context of the information you're sharing. Effective communication needs to be clear and concise so that there is little misinterpretation.

33:42AJ and Dr. Robin have a great conversation that further illuminates the sheer power that using feeling words in a conversation can have. Now you brought up two great points that I just want to touch on around emotions. Number one, they actually provide context to all of the information that we're sharing. Exactly. When you state a fact, if you don't add the emotion, people are going to paint whatever emotion they're feeling or they felt in the past around that event. And your great example in the book around someone losing their job, well, for one person, that might be terrifying. For another person, that might open a door to a new challenge that's exciting for them.

34:22But if all you say is, I lost my job, the other person hearing that is going to fill in their own emotional context. The other important point is emotions also connect us because they're universal. I've never been whitewater rafting, but I've been terrified and coerced, as Johnny can admit, to going up on a zip line in Tulum. So I've been in those situations where the emotion provides that connection between the two of us, even though I've not strapped on a helmet and gone whitewater rafting. But if we leave out the emotion from the conversation, we rob that other person of all that opportunity for connection.

35:00That's such a wonderful point. And in fact, I'll add that emotion is the source of empathy. So you don't have to have ever been whitewater rafting, or you might think, God, I love whitewater rafting, but you know the experience of terror and coercion. And so you can empathize with my feeling that way, even if you would never feel that way in the situation. That's where people really get confused as to thinking, well, I don't know why you're sad. You should be happy. I don't, you know, well, first of all, should be eliminated from the English language. But the other thing I'd say is, it doesn't matter if you understand why I'm sad or not.

35:42You understand the feeling of sadness. So you can probably connect to that. The other thing about emotions is that they also indicate the intensity of an experience. So if you tell me you're mildly annoyed, that's different than if you tell me you're upset or angry or furious. So feelings are like two thoughts are like treble and bass and music. Without feelings, you've only got half the story. But we've been socialized to leave feelings out of it, especially in business. But really, you know, think about little kid hurts himself in the playground. The mom runs over and says to him, you're fine.

36:25You're fine. Well, you know, no, actually, I'm hurt. But it's so important for mom to not be worried about kid being hurt that she denies the kid even the right to be feeling hurt. What's with that? What I've noticed about the more you express emotions, the more you're able to pick up on emotions in others. And we've fallen into this terrible pattern where we dampen our emotions that we're sharing. And in turn, we're not in tune with others' emotions. And we're losing that EQ and that ability to really understand where the other person's coming from. We've all been in those boring surface level small talk conversations that are just an exchange of information.

37:10And for many of us, it's led us to not want to network, to not put ourselves out there, to think, you know what, I'm just going to sit quietly next to the student in class and not say a word for an entire semester, robbing ourselves of that connection. Disclosure doesn't mean talking about something secret. It means talking about something internal. And by sharing that, we're taking a bit of risk that creates the connection. When we talk about disclosure as one of the keys to creating more connection, and we talk about being more open and being more known, usually when you hear things like disclosure, people think, I'm going to tell you something that's illegal, immoral, or fattening.

37:45actually about telling you more about how I'm feeling right now, right here in this moment, which is why the course is called by the students affectionately, touchy-feely, because of the big emphasis on feelings. Feelings are what give meaning to facts. If I tell you I went whitewater rafting, okay, if I tell you I went whitewater rafting and it was exhilarating, you've learned more about me. If I say I went whitewater rafting and felt terrified, you've learned something different about me. And if I tell you I went whitewater rafting, I felt terrified and coerced into doing it because people were going to think I was really, you know, a wimp if I didn't, then you've learned even more about me.

38:33And then maybe I've taken a bit of a risk in letting you know that about me. Oh man, Carol doesn't always have it together. So there's a cost to this spun image that has become so prevalent, which is then I'm trapped. Like now I can't tell you that I was scared. Carol Robin explains how vulnerability needs to be adjusted in a work or business context. So you're absolutely right that context matters and how you use these tools and skills and competencies has to be adapted to the context. The 15 % rule still applies, by the way, but what my 15 % might look like with my buddy might look very different than my 15 % with my boss.

39:17Now, I want to go back for a couple moments and talk about how when there are power differentials, which are inevitable in a business context, it's incumbent on the person in the higher power position to take the risk first. because if you're going to expect somebody in a lower power position, whether it's because of the hierarchy or because of social status or any other reason, to make themselves vulnerable and take the risk first, that's double unfair. So if you're a leader out there, think about whether or not you're making it in any way possible easier for somebody to take a risk and allow themselves to get a little more known by you if you haven't allowed yourself to get known by that.

40:02Now, let's come back to the idea that in business, we've been even more socialized to leave our feelings in the parking lot at a huge cost. And there's research that shows that leaders that are willing to be vulnerable, as long as it's not about their core competency, create higher performing organizations. So if I'm the VP of marketing, and that's the third month in a row that we've lost market share and I don't know what the heck is going on. And I stand up in front of everybody and say, well, that's the third month in a row we've lost share. I don't have a clue why. I don't know what to do about it.

40:43I'm feeling really insecure. I'm not sure I should be your VP of marketing. That's what we would call inappropriate authenticity and not the kind of disclosure that we are advocating or the kind of vulnerability that the research shows helps you become a stronger leader. But I could say, so that's the third month in a row that we've lost market share. First of all, admitting a mistake. You know what? I don't fully understand it because I don't have all the answers. Admitting you don't know. Vulnerability number two. And I have some ideas that I'd love to run past all of you. I've never needed all of you more than ever.

41:25And I hope I can count on you, that's a whole different message. It's still vulnerable. It doesn't say I've got it all figured out. I'm crushing it, which is what a lot of leaders think it looks like to be leaderly and it's appropriate authenticity. Leveraging your vulnerability is a conversational skill that is learned through practice. And you can learn these on your own, but it takes time. Imagine having a communications dojo where you can practice these techniques with others who are also learning them. Why waste time when you can accelerate the process? Join us today in the X-Factor Accelerator to rapidly improve your communication and build high-value relationships today at unlockyourxfactor.com.

42:11Now, AJ, with relationships comes conflict. And conflict resolution is one of our most popular X-Factor Accelerator implementation sessions. Now, in conflict, there are three realities that must be considered to get to a resolution. Number one is my intent. Number two is what I say and do. And number three, how what I said and did affected you. In this clip, Carol Robin goes through them. You're right to point out that no matter how great a relationship is, conflict is inevitable. And in fact, the closer you become and the deeper the relationship, the more likely there is to be at least what we call pinches, but certainly conflict.

42:52And one way to learn how to handle it productively, which is a hallmark of an exceptional relationship, no conflict, handling it productively, is this idea that in any exchange between two people, there are three realities, not two realities. There's what I say and do. That's reality number two. It's the only one known to the two of us. There's my intent in saying and doing that, which is reality number one, which you don't know until I tell you. And there's reality number three, which is how what I said and did landed on you, what your reaction was to it. Now, we describe this metaphorical net where between reality number one, which is my intent, and reality number two, which is my behavior.

43:43So let me give you an example. Let's go back many, many years to when I was home with an infant and a two-year-old. And my husband was a big-time executive in Silicon Valley. He would come home after a very long day and he'd plop down on the couch and he'd pick up the newspaper because in those days people still read newspapers. I'd hear him from the back of the house. I'd come zooming around the corner thinking, oh my God, oh my God, he's home. And I'd start in. Guess what happened today? You won't believe what happened today. I went to that nursery school. It didn't even open yet. It's already full.

44:12Oh, my God. Why are we raising kids in Palo Alto? This is crazy. I think we should. OK. And you know what he would do? He would say, hmm. He'd look. He would not look up from the newspaper. He'd make no eye contact and he would just say, hmm. And then I would say, you're not listening. You're not listening is over the net. I am not in his head. I don't know whether he's listening or not. And by the way, it gets worse. And those of you out there listening who've been taught iMessages, I feel that you're not listening is exactly the same statement. So don't fool yourself into thinking you're making an iStatement.

44:54So after I would say you're not listening and then he'd say, yeah, you went to that new nursery school, it's all full and you're all worked up about it. He still would make no eye contact and that would be his response. Then it would escalate. how can you be so insensitive? I would say also over the net, because I don't know, you know, I'm attributing insensitivity to him is that's neither the behavior nor my reaction to it. I feel that you don't care. He didn't say I don't care is over the net. So when I learned to say, honey, when I talk to you and you make no eye contact, and the only thing I get back from you is a grunt.

45:38I don't feel heard. That's called my side of the net. Behavior, all of us who watch the interaction would say that's what happened. My reaction, I don't feel heard. And when I don't feel heard, I feel hurt. And I feel less important. And I feel dismissed. And I feel distanced. And I don't want to feel distanced. And I'm telling you this, because I don't, I think I don't know if you know that that's the impact of your behavior on me. That's called staying on my side of the net. Providing feedback to co-workers, colleagues, and friends is a key to all great relationships. But like in communication, there is a good way and a bad way of going about it.

46:25Giving feedback that conveys our intent moves us into problem-solving conversation and why disclosure is a requirement for this. But now let's go to the purpose and giving feedback in a way that's productive. Purpose of feedback isn't to change somebody else. The purpose of feedback is to move into a problem solving conversation. So as long as I've made him defensive by being over the net, you don't care. Yes, he does. You know, you're insensitive. He's one of the planet's most sensitive men, incredibly unfair. That's not going to move us into any kind of productive conversation. But the minute I'm able to stay on my side of the net, he then doesn't feel attacked or the need to justify himself or misrepresent it anymore.

47:10He's like, oh, well, so then he says, well, you know, honey, if you need eye contact and my undivided attention, then you've got to give me some time to unwind when I get home. And I said, okay, how much time do you need? He said, I don't know, half an hour. I was like, half an hour? I've been counting the minutes for you to get home. How about five minutes? He's like, five minutes? That's like nothing. So we settled on 15. But the point is, that's a great example. True story. Great. I don't know if the whole story is in the book, but a little bit of it is. But it's a great example of how if we learn to give each other feedback in a way that stays on our side of the net, conveys our intent, we are able to move into a problem solving conversation.

47:58And after that, I had to wait. But after 15 minutes, I knew I'd have his attention. And by the way, that conflict, let's go back to conflict. Instead of thinking of conflict as a bad thing, we can think of conflict as an opportunity to learn more about each other and ourselves. He learned more about what I needed and what was important to me. He learned that I was desperate for adult interaction at the end of the day. He might have sort of known that or assumed that, but I got to actually, we got to talk about that. It brought us closer. That's what I was just going to say. Not only are you learning about the other person, it just makes the relationship that much better.

48:41And you feel that much more connected. And now you definitely have somebody that you can put confidence in because they have been there through times of trouble rather than just throwing their hands up. The other thing that you brought up about being on your side of the net versus over the net, and you alluded to this in that comment, but you illustrate this in the book very well. Once that you feel what is okay to be over the net, it opens the doors to not only attributing behaviors and actions to build whole entire wild narratives that don't even make sense. And it is incredibly important in our relationship that that idea is understood because we're going to have massive problems soon as communication starts to break down and we're just allowed permission to make up whatever wild story we want.

49:35Which by the way, is another case for why disclosure is important. The less I tell you, the more opportunity I give you to make up stories about me. And it's like a blank sheet. You can project anything you want on a blank sheet. It's a little harder when I've filled it in for you. So embedded in feedback well given is disclosure. When you did this, I felt this. And this is why I'm telling you. And this is what I'm hoping happens as a result. People are scared to death of giving others feedback because they think it's going to actually weaken a relationship or they're going to be seen as a bad person.

50:10It only strengthens relationships if done well. If you're in a role that requires you to deliver feedback, take some notes from Chuck Wisner. Not everything you're thinking needs to be said or taken personally. Hold your opinions lightly. Only then can a dialogue happen. You can use these three phrases to voice your opinions to others. You know, listening has been talked about forever. You know, be a better listener, be a skillful listener, be an active listener. You can read all the books you want. but if you don't quiet down your inner dialogue or judgments you can be a good listener right it's only until and i'm not asking people to give up their opinions i'm only asking to hold them lightly you know because what happens when we get when our ego gets attached to our opinion we enter a conversation with our opinions as a fist and so if we if the three of us enter a conversation we all it's like no this is what i think should happen around covid no i think this is what happened.

51:06No, I think this is what happened. And we're all entering because we're attached to that, right? We just end up banging heads on each other. And the collaboration never happens. All I'm saying is you don't have to give up your opinion, but have it with an open hand. Here's why I'm concerned. Here's what I think what I want to have happen. Here's what I think the authority issues are. And here are the standards by which I make a call. What are my standards would I say what's safe and what's not safe. That ability to say, here's my thinking, here's my worries, that invites other people to do the same thing and unclench.

51:41And then we can start having a dialogue. Your inner dialogue is a conversation with yourself and is a source of stress and distraction if you haven't conditioned it to be constructive. And here's what to do about your self-story and inner dialogue explained by Chuck Wisner. Yeah. And oftentimes passing it unconsciously. We have our internal dialogue going, oh God, he is so full of shit, or I can't believe how she's behaving or whatever. And that tension between our public persona or voice and our private is a major driver of stress. Stress for ourselves and stress in conversation. There's two parts to that.

52:19One is, what are the stories I have internally about myself that I adopted that aren't serving me well. I mean, we might have positive stories like I'm confident and I can do this and I can do that and I'm a good football player. I'm a great dancer or whatever. But we also have stories that are limiting. And I tell the story in the book where I grew up being told I wasn't man enough. My sisters could cry. I couldn't. I didn't like skinning the deer in the basement and got sick. And I was told you're not man enough, you know, be a bigger man. I adopted that story. So I had an internal story, the ontology of language, it's often called the master stories, master stories about ourselves.

53:03So the only way to do that is to really, the stories that cause you angst is to really write them down and say, you know, I can't do this. I can't speak in public, right? And then we have to take that we have to tear that apart and go what are there facts that counter that are there things that this is keep holding me back from doing and you literally have to deconstruct the story and you come out the other end when i deconstructed my story it's like wait a minute i'm i'm 30 years old i'm an architect i have two kids i'm successful i have a beautiful wife i'm six foot tall what's this about big enough man shit you know so you know that in that way i busted my own story so there's that and then the other piece is the internal dialogue we have in conversation with others which is the judgment and the private commerce which i call the private conversation the only way around that is to literally the practice there is to take a conversation do the exercise i write in the book on the right side I said, what do you think about the project?

54:10She said, it's too soon to tell. You write down that and then you go to the left-hand side and you go, while that conversation was going on, what was I thinking and feeling when every person was talking? I've done this with hundreds of people. And it's never, never has it happened that people aren't surprised when they write down their private thoughts. Because they're negative. They have plenty of swear words. plenty of judgments, right? So it's all there, but we're so used to it. We're so, so used to just that voice being there that when we pay attention to it and shine a light on it, it's like, oh my gosh, I can change that.

54:50The problem is that schools have trained us that not having an answer is not an option. So we advocate for an answer instead of inquiring about one. Learn to deprogram yourself from bad habits our modern culture has conditioned you to, explained by Chuck Wisner. The difficulty of the balance is basically our social norms, our social training, our education. We are trained to raise our hands in school to have the answer. We rarely get a gold star for raising our hands and saying, I don't know. From an early age, we are like, you get the gold star for having the answer. Then we go to school, college, same thing.

55:28We're trained as an expert. Then we go to work and we're really rewarded well for being finding the answers and being the smart guy or gal in the room. So that's sort of embedded unconsciously in how we operate when we're in a group of people, whether it's education or business. And then, so we sort of like lean, lean into unconsciously lean into being advocates because we want to have the answer. We're often addicted to our answer. Our ego is attached to our answer, right? I'm not casting judgment. I'm just saying that's a pattern. I love to think about these things as patterns, which you guys probably picked up on, because it's a little less judgmental.

56:13You know, the idea of, oh, I have a pattern that does that is a little less judgmental because it's not, I didn't consciously choose that story or I didn't consciously choose that opinion. Wow, I adopted that. And let me have a fresh look, right? So if we can sort of start paying attention to that pattern of how we advocate, then we can bring the stepchild inquiry into the equation, you know, and we can go, wait a minute, there's a whole nother part of the equation, which is if I come with my advocacy, not with a fist, but with an open hand, then I'm also often I have to default. Many people, leaders especially, have to default to inquire because it's so not their pattern.

56:55And finding that balance takes a lot of self-investigation to go, wait a minute. At one extreme, I'm being arrogant and I'm being a jerk and I have the answer and my team won't talk to me because I always have the right answer. At the other extreme are people that don't trust their voice and never speak up. But somewhere in the middle, there's that balance of inquiry and advocacy where we really do sync up.

57:30Johnny, this episode was chock full of secrets to powerful communication, especially when it comes to building high value relationships. And one thing that all of our X Factor Accelerator members share with us as they go through the program is, man, I wish I'd learned this earlier in my relationship development. It would have saved a lot of problems that I had in communicating and building great relationships. Well, all of these skills should be taught in school. And because they're not, we teach them here at the Art of Charm in our X-Factor Accelerator program.

58:20was excited to take part in some mountain biking with Aaron. I rallied a buddy of mine locally, and we had so much fun on one of the top trails here in Los Angeles. AJ, that sounds like so much fun. And that's what's so great about what we do. I mean, we're actually side by side our clients and helping in those wins. I mean, for us, we're celebrating them as much, if not more than they are. And if you want to hear the story about my cool new nickname, AJ Turbo, head over to LinkedIn and follow me for the epic story this week. The LinkedIn link is in the show notes. Are you stuck at work or in life?

58:55Do you feel life passing you by too quickly, becoming redundant and absurd? Well, that means it's time to shake things up in your career and personal life. If you're ready to break out of the boredom and invigorate your social capital, then it's time to unlock your X Factor and unleash the secrets to elite human dynamics. Imagine what you can accomplish by mastering the art of influence, persuasion, and rapid rapport building. With our X-Factor Accelerator program, you'll gain the skills to captivate any room, influence any decision, and create connections that last a lifetime. After coaching over 10 ,000 clients and 17 years of research and training, the Art of Charm has built the leading Elite Human Dynamics program.

59:35You'll get personal feedback, rapid skill building, and elite strategies to unlock your unique X-Factor and give you the ability to stand out, be memorable, and make an impact. Take your communication from ordinary to extraordinary with our personalized plan of attack and expert guidance. This is not a one-size-fits-all program. Our program is tailored to your skill level so you can get the best training possible. Join an elite network of professionals, business owners, military special forces, and engineers closing deals, winning friends, and influencing high-value people. Don't put it off any longer.

1:00:09Apply today at unlockyourxfactor.com. If you listen this far, my guess is that's because you want more out of life and finally succeed at love, work, and life. If that's the case, then join us, the Art of Charm team, and other listeners just like you who are experiencing breakthrough conversations, supercharging their confidence, and growing an incredible network inside our world-famous X-Factor Accelerator program. The X-Factor Accelerator is where high-achieving, like-minded people meet, strategize, and unlock their hidden X factor to make sure they get the most out of life's opportunities and unlock those doors, keeping you from success.

1:00:47We kick off every month with a goal setting strategy session. So you have a personalized plan of attack as well as weekly implementation sessions with opportunities to practice your conversation skills, rapport building, and supercharge your charisma through powerful communication. Imagine what you can accomplish with coaching and mentorship with the art of charm. What are you waiting for? Join us today at unlockyourxfactor.com. All right, before we head out, could you do us a quick favor? If you enjoyed this podcast, click subscribe in your favorite player and rate the show. It helps us tremendously and we appreciate your support more than you know.

1:01:24A huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. We hope you have an epic week.

1:01:37You threw love away Like it was just a toy And you sold the world You sold the tragedy Cause you had your taste All black on the yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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From the publisher

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In today’s episode, we cover communication with five elite communication experts. We have Dr Carole Robin, who's been teaching the legendary course, interpersonal dynamics at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Chuck Wisner, the author of The Art of Conscious Conversations, Karen Wickre, the author of Taking the Work Out of Networking, Jonah Berger, professor at Wharton School and the author of several best selling books on influence and social Dynamics, including Magic Words, and Susan McPherson, the author of The Lost Art of Connecting.

From the significance of open-ended questions to the impact of language on emotions, our guests share strategies to influence and connect with others. We'll also uncover the keys to building high-value relationships, the role of vulnerability in leadership, and the importance of active listening in meaningful conversations. Join us as we uncover actionable steps and insights to elevate your communication skills and unlock hidden potential.

What to Listen For

Introduction – 0:00

Break this one habit before it breaks your budding relationships

How do you create better quality conversations and open up dialogue with anyone?

What is the worst question you can ask when someone is sad or upset? 

This type of language pushes most people away – 11:50

Most people won’t do this one thing in order to improve their relationships

How do you master the skill of listening so you can avoid relationship-breaking problems while also building the strongest relationships?

Most people hide who they are because of this – 22:15

This is the one key to being the greatest version of yourself

How do you turn acquaintances into friends and friends into allies?

The key to creating lifelong connections – 32:20

Most CEOs will never do this even though it supercharges the output of their employees

The secret to resolving marital conflict that people ignore at their own peril

The 3 little known phrases to get your point across – 45:20

How do you train your inner dialogue to be constructive instead of critical?

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