How to Build Real Confidence | Amy Morin

23:29The relief from pain feels so much better than if I just woke up happy all day, every day. And I think some of the happiest people in life have also been through some of the most difficult circumstances, and they now appreciate like life is good or I'm doing well, or it's the little things, and it really changes people's perspectives. So I think it's important to get more in tune with how do I feel today? And then is this emotion helpful or hurtful right in this moment. If I show up at work and I'm so anxious, I can't work. Obviously, it's not helpful in that moment and I need to figure something out.

24:03But it also might be a clue to me that, hey, this is something I need to address when I get home tonight. And there is this idea that we should just, you know, shove our emotions down, check them at the door. Or if you don't enjoy them, you should constantly distract yourself. Obviously, we live in a world that makes distractions super easy between our phones and all of these other devices and everything going on. You don't really have to feel those things anymore if you don't want to. You don't have to be bored. I mean, you look in the grocery store line and everybody's scrolling on their phones because they're there for 30 seconds.

24:35So just knowing that you don't have to do that. In fact, when you let yourself feel bored, the relief from boredom is going to feel really good. So that's okay. I want to add to that as well. Due to all the technology, we don't explore our emotions. Yeah, sure. They're telling us things, but looking inward, you're going to learn a lot about yourself because of what you are feeling. And then that what is on the inside then gets represented on the outside. So this is where art comes from, from the emotions that you're feeling and then a presentation of that in the present world. Without that exploration, we wouldn't have, well, we probably wouldn't have most of everything in our lives today because it is emotion that has driven the creation of all of these things.

25:37You're absolutely right. And I worry now too, now that everybody's using, say AI to get advice or to chat. We're just turning to like, oh, I feel a little anxious. So let me get some advice from chat GBT or Claude to see how to handle the situation. Maybe you just need to feel it for a little while and let yourself be in that place. Yeah, to indulge in those emotions. That's where some of the greatest writing, the greatest songs, the greatest paintings have come from. If we're not challenging those uncomfortable emotions, we're wasting them. And that's all part of human development. So you either cherish the idea of evolving into the Ubermash or you avoid that.

26:27Right? Imagine the music industry. If all of these artists didn't go through the heartache of breakup, right? Our songs would be completely different. Things like that are really what adds a lot of different color to life is when we talk about emotions and we all have the same emotions. Different people might worry about different things across all walks of life. But whether you're a rich business owner or you're somebody who's struggling below the poverty line, like anxiety is still anxiety. And just acknowledging that these are all human emotions is really important.

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29:41Johnny:And unfortunately, when our identity is wrapped up in being stoic and those emotions overwhelm us, it can really knock the legs out from under us. And it can also make the people in our life who have expectations of us being stoic shaken a bit by our emotionality. So I think it is very common to think, oh, I have to shove these emotions aside at work. Like it's OK to express them socially. It's OK to express them with my partner. But in a work environment, I'm expected to act in a certain way and not have those emotions. And unfortunately, when we do then have those emotions, it really sets us up to struggle with managing them.

30:19I think stoicism is taking in the wrong way as well. For most people, it is the absence of feeling those emotions or bottling them up or not allowing them to drive them. But what it actually is about is coming to terms with those emotions and being able to challenge them in constructive ways. Yeah, I think it's about knowing that they're going to be involved in your decision making, whether you acknowledge it or not. You just don't want them driving the bus, right? Like let them be the passenger. And we make our best decisions when our emotions and our logic are kind of in check, right? If I'm so emotional, I can't think clearly, right?

30:55This is why somebody gets excited, they fall for get-rich-quick scheme. Even really smart people, we see this where they're like, oh, this can't fail because they're so excited that they clouded their judgment. And the truth is we're not as good at separating our emotions as we often think that we are. And research will show if I'm anxious about something, maybe I heard about a family member who has an illness and I'm really worried about them. I walk into my office and my boss says, hey, I have this new opportunity for you. I'm much more likely to say no, even though my anxiety has nothing to do with this opportunity at hand, it spills over into other areas of our lives.

31:33Even though we think we're really good at compartmentalizing, we're often not. So rather than pretend I'm not anxious, I'm better off to say, okay, I have some anxiety today. How might this affect my decisions? If I'm offered a new opportunity, I might be more inclined to not take a risk. So I need to be aware of that so I can balance that with some more logic.

31:53Johnny:Yeah, and I think part of we've discussed this on the show in the past, part of this is also not having a great emotional vocabulary. So we default to poor explanations of those emotions or default emotions without actually understanding the nuance of those emotions. And I think that's where a lot of value in unpacking and processing those emotion lies. Like, is it truly anger? Or is it more just frustration? And if we don't have the vocabulary, it is difficult then for us to process them effectively and use that signal in a way that benefits us. Absolutely. We talk so much about emotional intelligence and people are trying to identify how somebody else is feeling.

32:32Just start with how do you feel today? And I'll work with a lot of like really high profile executives and I'll tell them, just print out a list of feeling words, tape it on your bathroom mirror. When you're brushing your teeth, hopefully twice a day, just check in with yourself. How do I feel right now? And maybe it is some of those nuanced emotions. I feel a little discouraged. I feel a little hopeless about this, but I also feel sad about this. And sometimes our emotions are conflicting, right? I might be happy about a new job, but sad I'm leaving this one behind. But we really don't name those feelings.

33:05When you talk to people about how they're feeling, they'll often be like, well, I had a lump in my throat. Well, it's not a feeling, right? So just get better at identifying how we're feeling can do wonders for us. And research will show just putting a name to your emotion takes a lot of the sting out of it. So if I can say I'm anxious, my anxiety automatically goes down just a little bit by naming it. I want to back you up on that one point as well, which is if you want to read other people, you want to know how they're feeling, you want to understand them. It's going to start with yourself. And it's funny, all our clients are always curious as to why we put so much focus on their emotional output and labeling through ACT, acceptance commitment therapy.

33:52But gaining that understanding through act, all of a sudden you understand all the ways that you communicate how you're feeling and your emotions and the core values that are driving all of those emotions. And then as soon as that sets in, then the exercises, it's almost like the karate kid, because now we're doing exercises about other people and they just now have discovered, oh, I get it. Now I'm understanding how others are communicating their core values and how they are feeling. And it's a switch that goes off. But again, yes, you have to start with yourself and understand what drives your emotional communication.

34:41So that clicks, then the only thing you hear from other people is their emotional communication. communication. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that idea of just getting more on board with yourself so that you better understand other people and realizing just because I feel sad doesn't mean you feel the same way. You might say, you know, I'm kind of excited today. And oh, okay, well, that's why we're struggling to have this conversation because I think this change is terrible. You think it's great, but we're struggling to put that into words. Well, you just brought up another incredible point, which is without that knowledge of how you communicate your emotions, you run perception bias that everyone thinks and feels the way you do.

35:26And that's what gets everybody in trouble. Because if you think and feel the way I do, then I don't have to ask you about it. Then I don't have to have a conversation about it. Then we don't have to have a discussion about it. The minute you realize that not everyone thinks and feels the way you do and you start seeing behaviors that are different than yours, exclaiming different emotions, thoughts, and feelings. Well, now you want to talk about it. Now you want to understand. Now you want to, do you get curious? And to everyone out there who my problem is I'm just not curious about other people.

36:01Yeah. You're not curious because you, you have perception bias. You think and feel that everyone is, uh, thinks them feels the way you do. Yeah, I just read this study yesterday about mind reading and how we often think, well, I don't have to ask because I know how you feel. But even in committed relationships, when they ask people, how does your partner feel? People only got it right 20 % of the time. Right. And this is the person you're supposed to be closest to. So somebody I don't know very well or a coworker, like I'm making all these assumptions and guesses. But obviously, if I don't even know how my partner is feeling, how would I know how my colleague I only see a couple hours a week is feeling?

36:36Johnny:Well, it's interesting because that fully aligns with when you ask your clients, we ask our clients, how are you feeling? And they can't even describe their own emotions. So how can we be reading other people's minds if we don't even have the vocabulary to understand the own emotions that we're having? And often how conflicting those emotions can be where we can be feeling two entirely different emotions at the same time. But then we'll often ascribe someone else's behavior to one emotion that we sense that they have. I'd love to touch on stress because I for a lot of our clients, it's kind of like boiling the frog.

37:10Johnny:They've lived under high stress situations and performed at their best for so long that they don't even realize that they're just under constant stress. And then the thought of relaxation of unplugging of of actually decompressing from that stress is so foreign to them that they really struggle. And in a lot of these situations, stress doesn't work to our advantage in relationship building, communicating, stress doesn't actually work to our advantage, but it's a blind spot for many of our clients. So what can we do to start to manage our stress more effectively and maybe find some relaxation? Yeah, I really run into two schools of thought when it comes to stress in my clients.

37:47So some people are just like that, like they have no idea that they're stressed to the gills. And then I run into other people who constantly tell themselves, oh, I'm so stressed out. I'm so stressed out. And then they talk themselves into being really stressed out all the time and they're making their life worse. But I think it's important to obviously you take care of yourself when we know all about sleep and exercise and diet and the things you can do. But the little things you do during the day make a huge difference. So if I have a really high stress job, I can't change that. I can't change the situation.

38:19If I want to keep my job, I'm going to be there. So what is it I'm going to do throughout the day? Like, how am I going to use my lunch break. I love to say, go on a mental vacation during your lunch. We know that just taking, say, 10 minutes and pretending you're in that place, whether it's that beach in Hawaii that you once loved or it's your grandmother's backyard that you loved as a kid, if you can close your eyes at your desk or you go out to your car and you spend 10 minutes just visualizing that you're there, what do you see? What do you hear? What do you smell? Research shows that that actually resets your brain the same way an actual vacation does.

38:55Didn't cost you any money and it only took you 10 minutes. Yet how many of us like still sit at our desk and you try working through your lunch break? Another like really simple thing is to do a nature reset. Not everybody has the opportunity to go outside and be in the forest during their workday, but sometimes just sitting underneath a tree for 10 minutes is all it takes to refresh your brain and your mind for the rest of the day. And these really simple things that I've worked with people who say, well, you know, I don't have a ton of time during the day. Like I had somebody who was a hospice nurse and she said, you know, I can't go on a mental vacation when my client's standing here in front of me.

39:32So like, what am I going to do? I'm trying to help a patient and their family in this really serious moment. One of the best things we came up with was like, you're going to do a little de-stress dance. You go in the bathroom, you're going to take two minutes in the restroom and you're going to put on some headphones, listen to some music, and you're going to dance because moving your body. Incredible way to reduce stress just for a couple of minutes. And then you go back out there and you face this really hard job that you have. And sometimes it's just those little things where you take two minutes here, two minutes there to reset your nervous system, calm your mind a bit.

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41:42Johnny:And I love the power of being in nature. You know, one of my client, our executive coaching clients, he runs a massive hedge fund and he is constantly at his desk, just jumping from call to call to call and then eating lunch at desk if he even gets to lunch. and I just posed the question, what if you went on a walk and got away from your desk and how would that help your performance in the afternoon? And how do you feel you'd be at the end of the day instead of just so completely overwired with stress? And we forget that that is available to us. We can leave our desk. We can leave our workstation and just go outside and look at the sky, walk by some trees, go to the park and get away from all of this technology and modern convenience that creates so much of the stress in our lives if we're just always expected to be on.

42:28And there's even research, if you bring nature in, that that can help too. If you have a plant on your desk, you have some nature sounds, it can make a big difference. But it has such a huge difference on your body. I mean, they found that like patients in hospitals who have a window view where they're able to look at some kind of nature outside, they get faster, they get better way faster than the person who doesn't have a view of nature. And you think, well, that's just ridiculous, right? You get discharged from the hospital after surgery faster if you have a window where you can see something outside.

43:01So obviously it affects us in some pretty huge ways. So for people who say, you know, I work in a concrete jungle going outside isn't all that helpful. Maybe you just have some nature sounds, a plant and some landscape images in your office to set a screensaver that's beautiful. It can take a little bit of those things can just make a huge difference in how you feel during the day. I want the first thought for a lot of people was probably this advice sounds so old fashioned. Well, 40 years ago, everyone would be leaving their cubicle to go have a smoke. Right. In Italy, they're going to have an espresso for 15 minutes.

43:44These old traditions were done for a reason, and they had longevity because they worked, and they were adopted in culture because they worked. and yeah sure we all understand the the the issues with with smoking but think about the the benefits of that that 10 minutes that you went outside you went outside you had a cigarette you were alone with your thoughts you're talking with the other folks who were outside having a cigarette, it's a complete shift that resets you for the rest of your day. So yeah, cigarettes, bad for you. So what is the next best thing? Maybe it is to go get an espresso or whatever, and maybe you don't like that caffeine, but yes, that old school advice was sound for a reason.

44:44Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it's often the simple things that are really the answer, Right. Sometimes we're like, oh, I got to book this wellness retreat or I need a vacation. And the big things, that's great. So you can have a vacation after the vacation. Right. Right. And how many people do that? You feel like I have to get the most out of my vacation. So I'm going to spend 10 days sprinting from activity to activity. So I have a lot of things to put on Instagram. But really, if you need to relax, like you need to find, I think, better ways. Like there's research that shows reading a book for just six minutes reduces your stress by some statistical amount, like 68%.

45:23Six minutes of reading a book. But doom scrolling has the opposite effect. If you're just going to scroll through the internet and read all these horrible articles, we know that raises your cortisol and keeps you in a heightened state of stress for a really long time.

45:37Johnny:And we've talked about doom scrolling quite a bit. And I think many of us, it's created this sense of dread where we're now viewing all the news of the world and everything that's going on, current events. Obviously, everyone is feeling things aren't going their way. Maybe it's in their career. Maybe it's with what's happening politically or around the world. And with that, that sense of dread is overwhelming and it impacts our performance. It impacts our outlook. We talked a lot about those thoughts that we're having. Well, if dread is overwhelming us, it's going to start to change our emotions and it's going to start to have a real impact on us.

46:12Johnny:So what's the antidote to dread? How can we start to overcome it if it feels like there's this rising sense as we doom scroll? Yeah, when we're always thinking like doom and gloom, bad things are going to happen. You need to insert some positivity, obviously, in your life, which seems like common sense. But how many of us don't do that? We still doom scroll. We don't do the things that are good for us. So it might be that you just start doing the gratitude flash two minutes a day where you say, I'm going to write down the things that are positive to increase the fact that my brain is going to see the good in the world too, not just the bad stuff.

46:45And if you're dreading something specific, because we often like at work, it's like, oh, I have this task my boss gave me. It's horrible and awful and I don't want to do it. So therefore I'm going to procrastinate, right? And the more I procrastinate, the more time I waste thinking about how awful it's going to be. So you need to do something that will actually get you moving on it. And we know that when you build some momentum, it's easier to keep going. It's just getting started is the hardest part. One of my favorite strategies for this is if I have a project I'm supposed to start working on and I don't want to do it, then I text a motivation buddy.

47:18And this is simply where I say to my friend, check back in with me in an hour. I'm starting to create the slides for this presentation I don't want to give, but check in with me an hour and ask how I'm doing. And the social pressure of that is like, oh, I better get going because I don't want to be embarrassed when you check in with me an hour and I'm still doom scrolling. So that's how you really get yourself going. And then once you get started, it's usually not as bad as we imagine it's going to be, but our dread exaggerates it and we struggle to start. There's an aspect about that dread that people need to just come to a realization about as well.

47:53For most people, the default is when do I just get the coast in life? Or once I get to retirement, then I could just chill out and coast i got news for you um civilization changed with agriculture civilization changed with the printing press civilization changed with the industrial revolution civilization changed with the digitalization of everything well i got news for you the ai revolution is here and we're going through a civilizational change there's no coasting if you're listening to this the only thing that you can do is to skill stack and better prepare yourself for everything that comes flying your way, because that's the only coasting that you're going to be doing.

48:41Yeah. I was just reading this study too, of people in Japan who decided, you know what, we don't want to get caught up in the rat race of life. So younger people are like, I'm just going to live in my parents' house. We work like a part-time job and do that, try to like coast through life and in a sense to try to spare my mental health and all the stress that comes with having a real job well guess what the people that are just trying to coast through life their mental health was worse than people that have goals and ambition and they're really striving for something and to know that setting your goals as i'm just gonna like you know try to survive the day without actually accomplishing anything isn't gonna make your life better you get to use your cognitive power one of two ways uh survival in uh how do i get better or how do i coast how do i coast in this situation that that's like a crackhead going rather than getting a job how do i get my crack today it's right and knowing yeah where does your energy go And that's not to say you have to be 100 % all the time in everything you do, but to make sure your energy is going to something that's worthwhile and that's in line with your values and that you are feeling like there's a reason to get out of bed today beyond just making money and having a job.

49:59Like, what's my full reason for getting up? Maybe it's something simple, like I'm just going to smile at a stranger and make the day a little bit brighter for myself or somebody else. But we all need that. But spending that effort in how do I coast today? Right. Or how do I set myself up for coasting this week? I don't know. To me, there seems much better ways of spending that energy.

50:27Johnny:For those in our audience who are so big on self-improvement, the mindset, the thoughts, the emotions doesn't resonate as much as the behavior change where they feel that they're making real impact. And oftentimes it's the behavior change that gets noticed by other people, our partners, our friends recognize something in us through that behavior change. So let's dig into behaviors and talk a little bit about what productive action really is, because what we're talking about here made to some of our audience sound a bit unproductive. Okay, I'm journaling, I'm worrying about my thoughts and working through my emotions.

51:02Johnny:That's great, guys. But you know, I do want to look good at the gym, or I do want to achieve career success. And that takes real action. Yeah, you're right. And if you go to work, your boss doesn't really pay you to like feel good or think positively, right? Right, right. We get paid for the what we produce. This is a real world situation where you need to be doing something in order to make an impact. And because I'll see a lot of people too, I think like positive thinking is the holy grail, or they'll just assume like, when I feel better, I'll do better. But again, sometimes you need to change your behavior first and to know like, what are my goals?

51:37What am I working toward? What am I doing today? Aside from just going through the motions or sitting on the couch. And it's not just about being busy because a lot of people just busy themselves all day long so that they don't have to feel, but it's about knowing like, where's my energy going that it's worthwhile. We only have so much time and energy. Am I putting it into the places where I'm making the biggest impact and are the things I'm doing in line with my life goals?

52:03Johnny:yeah and i i think for many of us action especially if you're listening to the show action is what is the motivating factor like we feel once we start acting a certain way even that act as if as we talked about with confidence then all of a sudden we start to shift those thoughts and emotions and beliefs around those behaviors so a lot of times the hack to get started is is the action first and then recognizing okay well my thoughts about myself and my confidence level will catch up by acting as if I belong or acting in a way that is what I would be doing had I reached my goals. Absolutely. And, you know, sometimes we want to research, plan more, like, oh, and I feel ready.

52:44I'll take the action. And it's about knowing, like, you don't have to have all the answers. Just trust you can figure some things out as you go. And then when you have that confidence of like, all right, I don't know what I'm doing, then there'll be some ups, some down some problems, but you'll figure them out if you trust that you can do it.

53:02Johnny:And action gives us a lot of signal. Like we're going to get that feedback loop by taking action that we don't get by ruminating or doom scrolling or sitting with that sense of dread. Yeah. I'm not going to learn how to like play the piano by reading books about how to play the piano. Right. I have to get out there. Right. I'm going to need a piano in front of me and I'm going to practice so I can learn from my mistakes so I can see what works and what doesn't. And so that I can grow as a person. But so often with other stuff, we think, oh, not ready to do that yet. You know, like, well, if you don't practice it, you're never going to get there.

53:35If you don't put yourself in those situations and challenge yourself, you're not going to know where your strengths are, where you need improvement or what you could be doing better. We need feedback about our behavior. And we also need to be interacting with other people to see how it's going to.

53:50Johnny:And with that, we definitely recognize that we're going to get knocked on the chin and maybe knock down in that behavior and we're not going to achieve exactly what we want in the timeframe that we had hoped, but the behavior change has an impact. And when we look at the people that we look up to, the people that we see as successful, they have tenacity that they get to pick themselves back up and they put themselves back in the arena again and again, oftentimes more than anyone else would to achieve that success that they're after. So how do we start to build that tenacity in our lives to help with this behavior change?

54:25So one thing is to just set a goal range. So often people are like, okay, I'm going to save$100 ,000 or I'm going to lose 30 pounds. Well, we're much better off. We set a short term goal, but don't even make it specific. Like I'm going to lose one pound a week or I'm going to save$100 this week. Set a range. Maybe I'm going to lose one to three pounds. Chances are you'll get much closer to three than you are to one. They find that people who say, I'm going to lose one to three pounds, lose more weight than somebody who says, I'm going to lose two pounds a week. Or if somebody said, I'm going to try to save a hundred to$200 a week, you'll save more than if you just set out to save a hundred or $50, whatever it is, set a range for yourself.

55:03When you hit the low end, it actually feels really good and you want to keep going. And that motivates you to try to work even harder and you'll try to get closer to the top end of the range. So that's a really simple thing when just about anything, have a short-term goal, but make it a range and see what happens. And another strategy that I find people often use wrong is this visualization idea. Somebody's like, well, just visualize when you're rich, how great that's going to feel, and then you'll save money. That actually isn't true. The more I visualize that all these amazing things are going to happen and I'm going to be this wealthy person, the more that my brain starts to think, oh, this feels great.

55:38I don't need to put any effort or energy. It starts to react as if you've already reached that goal. So you want to visualize yourself doing the hard work. Like, okay, I'm going to do the eight things today that are going to be really hard. Like sit and spend five minutes just imagining yourself trying to like, whether we're writing a book, whether we're trying to come up with a project and it's difficult, just imagine yourself trying to sit there through the distractions that you're working hard and you're sweating as you're trying to come up with a great idea. If you envision yourself working really hard, it actually increases the chances that you then will work hard and your brain will put in tons more effort and energy towards reaching your goal.

56:17But I hear so many people that are like, just think about how great you're going to feel when you cross that finish line. That is actually not what you want to do. You want to envision yourself training for the race, not just reaping the reward at the end.

56:28Johnny:I love that because it's such a simple hack. You know, many of us have heard visualization. We're probably doing some visualization throughout our day about the things that we really care about. And this is just a reframe and a shift of how we're channeling that visualization that has such a profound impact on our ability to persevere and to have that resilience as we go through those ups and downs towards those goals. Yeah. So many people come into my therapy office and they have a vision board with all the things they want on there, you know, the fancy sports car and the nice house and the vacation.

57:01And they're like, yeah, it's on my vision board, so it's going to happen. And then they're really expecting the universe to just gift it to them that somehow they're manifesting this by putting it on their vision board. So I'll talk to them about rather than put the fancy stuff on the vision board, let's put a picture of you working really hard. I'm like, that doesn't look as fun when you look up at the wall and you're up there and you're all sweaty and you're trying to do something. But that's what you need to do in order to make that happen. The car probably isn't just going to fall into your lap because you're a nice person.

57:28Johnny:And I think putting yourself in more of those situations for hard work. So for many of our clients, they're channeling that in their physical life and their physical health. Well, if you can think about that sweating in the gym and all the hard work you put in for the physique, you can persevere and do that same thing in your career. You can persevere and do that same thing in your personal relationships where there's argument, there's conflict, there's disagreement that can be just as challenging as lifting those weights in the gym. That's just it. I mean, we tend to do the things that come natural to us or the things that are a little bit easier because that's our default mode, right?

58:02So if going to the gym is easy and I feel good when I go to the gym. That's great. But like maybe having that conversation that's a little uncomfortable is something I've been putting off for weeks and I need to go have that conversation with somebody, even though it makes my anxiety go up. But that's where the real work maybe needs to be done.

58:19Johnny:So let's talk about that relationships and managing those because many of us have that person at work that we struggle with who just never listens or that direct report who shows up and appears really apathetic and then it feels like all their work is on our plate and we have to work for two. How should we be thinking about managing these relationships and what are some practical plays that we can run to build better relationships? And I think there's a lot of overlap, not just with your co-workers and your team members, but your personal relationships. Yeah, I think one of the big ones is to initiate a boundary reset.

58:53So we talk a lot about boundaries and you need to have boundaries. but what we don't talk about is when things kind of shift and maybe you made some exceptions. Like maybe you said, all right, I don't work from home. My day ends at five. I'm not going to check my emails. But then you had a special project where you made some exceptions. Now, three months later, you're still expected to answer your email at 7 p.m. What do you do? Or maybe your boss asked you to do a couple of tasks that are outside your role. You did them. And now everybody's asking you to do these things. And you're like, well, how do I set a boundary now?

59:24This is awkward. And so it's about saying, no, you can have a boundary reset. And you might have to go to the person and say, hey, you know, I've been experiencing some role creep lately. I know this isn't within my realm, but I've been doing it and that's on me, but I'm not going to do that anymore. Or I know I was checking my email because we had this deal with this other company in a different time zone, but I've gotten into the habit of still checking my email and people are expecting me to reply at 9 p.m. I'm not going to do that anymore. Here's what I'm going to do instead. and to just be upfront, like this is not what I'm gonna take on anymore.

59:57And it's a reset because so often I'll see people that will say, well, six years ago, I got into this job and things have always been this way and everybody else does it and I hate it, but here I am and I don't know what to do and I can't really set boundaries now. So call it a boundary reset and that can change a lot for us. And another strategy I think is to stop giving people advice that if I say to you, hey, you should quit smoking and that's bad for your health, Well, obviously, you know that like nobody smokes because they think it's good for them. But if I were to ask you questions like, is there anything about smoking you don't like?

1:00:31You might say, well, it costs a lot of money. Okay, well, then I know what's motivating you to start thinking about change. Or you might say, you know, I don't like the way it smells or my girlfriend complains about whatever it is. And then I'm like, oh, I know what motivates you now. And the way we get people to make different decisions is often about asking open-ended questions. instead of giving people advice. In fact, if I said to you smoking's bad and you like to smoke, you're gonna then say all the reasons why you like to smoke. And guess what? I've just made you more likely to continue smoking because your brain is like, hey, smoking's great.

1:01:03Here are the top 10 reasons. But if I ask you like, is there anything you don't like and you name three things you don't like, your brain's all, oh, why do I keep smoking? So I think in so many situations when somebody says, hey, I'm really struggling with this, we're really quick to jump in and say, here's what you should do. And it might even just be the conversations you have with your partner when your partner says hey my boss is a jerk We're often quick to be like well, you should tell your boss. You're not going to do that anymore And then it's like the conversation ends But if we just ask questions like have you thought about doing anything differently and you let the other person come up with some answers Often that's what helps them to create real change as a therapist I have a lot of people who land in my therapy office and they don't want to be there They're there because the court ordered them to or they're there because their their spouse said if you don't go i'm going to divorce you They don't think they need change, but maybe they want their spouse off their back or they want the court to close their case so they're not on probation anymore.

1:01:56So that's where we start with what motivates you to be here and work from there. And that's how I think how we often help other people the most is by not feeling like we have to have all the answers. But instead, we ask them questions that help them discover their answers.

1:02:10Johnny:I want to unpack a nuance on the boundary reset that I think is really important. And the reset itself is great saying, hey, I'm not going to do that anymore. This is not going to work for me anymore. But then you said, here's what I'm going to do instead. And you actually explain then with the boundary, there's also going to be some behavior change on your end that's going to make up for whatever that boundary impact is on the other person. And I think that's really important because when someone is receiving that boundary, if you don't say what you're going to do instead, or you don't say what's going to happen after the boundary, it's very difficult and challenging for that person.

1:02:45Johnny:And then of course, it hurts the relationship. They start to build resentment, distrust, not feel comfortable around you, because it feels like the boundary is a judgment on them. When you're actually saying, hey, this is going to be a behavior change on my part. Here's what I'm not going to do. And then here's what I'm going to do instead, as part of my behavior change, it makes it less about the other person and more about yourself taking responsibility and then changing. it. That's it. Exactly. If I said, Hey, stop emailing me after 7pm. I'm then expecting you to change your behavior. But if I say from now on, if you email me after 7pm, I'm not going to reply, then it's pretty crystal clear.

1:03:23And then I don't even have to check my email. Or if you choose to email me, like that's on you, but it doesn't mean I have to reply. And often the work is really within ourselves of like, you know, I can't not talk to everybody when when I go to the lunchroom. So therefore, I have to come up with a different strategy about a boundary for myself. Maybe instead of spending three hours in the hallway making small talk, I need to say I'm going to leave at a certain time or I'm going to exit conversations. It's not your fault that you're wasting my time or taking advantage of me. It's on me to say, how am I going to change this behavior?

1:03:56Johnny:And the second part of that was recognizing that people want autonomy, especially at work. And if you're just saying to someone, okay, I need you to do this, or I expect this of you, and you don't actually, in your giving advice, don't allow them to come to that conclusion on their own, or feel like they had some autonomy in that resolution, they're going to be less likely to actually participate in what you're suggesting, or what advice you're giving them, or what you need from them, versus asking the questions that allow them to draw that conclusion, feel like they had autonomy in reaching that conclusion that smoking is bad for them or emailing after seven isn't working for them either.

1:04:34Johnny:You create a much better working environment and a better relationship. Right. Obviously, there's times when a boss needs to say, you've been showing up late. This isn't working for any of us. And there's a consequence to that. But so many other times just asking somebody a question and then you get a better understanding of like, oh, you don't have the resources you need to do your job. That's why you're always 20 minutes late with the meetings or something like that. And just understanding where people are coming from. It sounds so simple, but it really makes a huge difference. As we wrap, I'd love for you to share the platinum rule with our audience.

1:05:09Yeah, we all know about the golden rule, like I'm going to treat you like I want to be treated, but I don't know how you want to be treated, right? And the platinum rule goes beyond that. So instead of treating you like I want to be treated, I'm going to treat you like you want to be treated. And sometimes in the workplace, it's really simple. I'll give you an example. I was working with somebody who was always frustrated because this other person in another department never replied to their Slack messages. And they're just like, you know, I keep slacking them. It takes them four days to get back to me and I can't do my job until this person replies.

1:05:39What's wrong with them? Well, the other person in the other department, they didn't use Slack like our department did. So it was just a matter of asking that person, if I have a question in the tech-ish department, how should I ask you that question? Oh, call me on the phone, I'll answer. And like, it was as simple as that. But so often we think, well, I want you to Slack me, so why aren't you doing that? But the other person might prefer a different mode of communication. And so the platinum rule is really about asking that, whether we're talking about clients or you have a coworker, the key people, just to ask them that, like, how do you prefer to communicate?

1:06:12Would you rather I set a meeting or are you somebody that likes to brainstorm outside of a meeting. So I'll send you an email first. And just knowing how people prefer to work, how their brains work a little bit, how they like to communicate makes a huge difference.

1:06:24Johnny:And asking yourself, have I created expectations here that haven't been communicated to the other person? So often we're walking around with these expectations of ourselves and then people around us, but we haven't communicated that. And as we talked earlier, they can't read our minds either. So it's a communication breakdown on our part. Absolutely. I mean, so many companies have like brainstorming sessions where 20 people sit around and throw out ideas and then they're mad that they didn't come up with great ideas. Well, half the room probably prefers a few minutes to sit in silence and think about the answer.

1:06:57And so these are the people that will email you after the meeting and say, you know what? And then somebody's frustrated, like, why didn't you bring that up in the meeting? Well, it's because their brain just works a little bit differently. And sometimes asking people, how do you work best? And what could we do? and accommodating those so that you're getting the ideas from everybody. And the smartest people in the room aren't necessarily the ones who are always talking.

1:07:16Johnny:Thank you so much for joining us, Amy. This was a lot of fun. Where can our audience find out about the playbook? So the Mental Strength Playbook is available anywhere books are sold. You can learn more on my website, which is amymorinlcsw, as in licensed clinicalsocialworker.com. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me.

1:07:46All right. And this is the part of the show where we celebrate one of our X Factor members. And this week it is David. Take it away, David.

1:07:54Johnny:Hi, my name is Dave and I am a senior software engineer. Art of Charm has helped me advance my career because it gave me the confidence and permission to go out and interview. Within four years of taking the program, no joke, 3x my salary. My favorite AOC concept was that I can build my own belief system. I am not tied to the negative doubt and self-talk that was in my head. I can push forward with who I wanted to be. To anybody thinking about joining, I'd say, you won't regret it. Just do it. Trust the process and you'll have the life that you deserve. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure working with you too, and we wish you all the luck in the near future.

1:08:29If you have gotten value out of this or any of our podcasts, could you do us a favor and head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It means the world to us and it helps others find all the value that you have found. Till next week, go out there and crush it.

1:09:04You're some of the tragedy Cause you had your taste Of black only today Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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