How To Read Body Language Like An FBI Agent

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4:15Jack Schaefer, former FBI agent and author of the book The Light Switch breaks down the power of a first oppression and how to read body language when meeting somebody. FBI agent Joe Navarro explains what they don't teach you in school about body language and how to pick up on subtle body language cues. Abby Murano shares how to use body language to rapidly build trust and how important lower body language is to our communication. And Anne-Marie Oud, behavioral advisor and CEO of the Behavior Company, explains how to read pacifiers in body language and what they mean. So let's get right to it.

4:53As human beings, body language is something that we've been observing since we were babies. We learn to distinguish between side-eye glance, a smile, or a frown when we're just 12 months old. So unless you're a toddler, interpreting body language has been with you for longer than your ability to form words. When then would we dedicate an entire episode to this topic? Because it is a skill that is becoming more and more important, and at the same time, one that massively atrophied in the Western world. Jack Schaefer, former FBI agent and author of the book The Light Switch, put it succinctly in our interview with him, Jack Schaefer, why we suck at reading cues.

5:34These things you got to remember are the things that we do every single day, whether we know it or not. These are the things we do when we interact with people. So it's an intuitive, natural thing that all people do. They're just not aware of it. And nowadays, the people that don't know about these social cues have a difficult time talking to people because they haven't learned those cues, either because they're too busy with technology or they just, I have a hard time reading those skills. When I was a kid, we'd be playing with other kids in the ballpark and stand lots, and we would be reading each other's social cues because we were with people every single day.

6:19So it wasn't that much of a problem. Nowadays, it seems to be more of a problem. Do you find that for those of us who are working on improving our ability to read and project these skills, that there is a pronounced learning curve when we overanalyze? Yeah, there's a learning curve, but you got to remember these are instinctive things. Once people learn these things, it's very easy to adapt them and become friends with people. But being able to decipher body language not only fills a knowledge gap that will continue to hold back many of our peers, it will make you, in the words of Joe Navarro, an intentionally acclaimed body language expert.

7:02Exceptional. Listen to him explain the reasoning in our interview with him. Joe Navarro, they don't teach you to be exceptional in school. You know, if you ask the average person, what does it take to be exceptional? And your question is good, AJ. You know, it's, well, what do I mean by that? I mean, you're the kind of person that When you walk away, you say, wow, I feel better for having known that person. I feel better for having been around that person. I somehow have benefited from that person, and I don't know why. And obviously, it has nothing to do with wealth or property or anything like that.

7:51And there were some people there that I ran into and studied. And I said, what is it that they have in common? You know, because you can't go to the university and say, I want exceptional 101 because I'm going to graduate in this. Come to find out, no university teaches you to be exceptional. They teach you skills. One of the most impactful things that great body language does for you is leave a very positive first impression. Something that's easy to get wrong, as Jack Schaefer explains. and Jack Shaver, the power of the first impression. It's difficult to change a first impression. The only thing that you can do to change a first impression is you have to time out.

8:37You have to meet that person so many times that they finally realize that their first impression is wrong. That's why it's very, very important to make a first impression because that first impression serves as a filter through which they see the other person from that time forward. But why is the first impression so important? Dr. Abby Murano, one of the world's leading researchers on body language, discussed this with our interview with her. Trust has evolved to be very, very quick from nonverbal communication. We actually judge trustworthiness in 33 milliseconds. So it's literally the first judgment that we make about anybody before confidence, before competence, anything is trust.

9:22And it can be, we can perceive someone as trustworthy very, very quickly. But we can also perceive someone as untrustworthy, just like that, just as quick. Even if we've made that initial judgment of trustworthy, all they have to do is one thing and our brain says, no, not safe. And then it's gone. So it depends on, again, the kind of trust that you're looking at. If we're having an interaction now, we have a one-time interaction, then all your judgments are based on me in this one interaction. but then if I am very very trustworthy and you think you know I trust you you seem trustworthy and then we have another interaction and I behave slightly differently all of that trust that's built up is gone so to answer your question it can be built very quickly it can be built over a long period of time and it can be destroyed very quickly and it can be destroyed after a long period of time, you've had this very, very long, lengthy, trustworthy relationship, one thing, one simple thing, and it can be broken down just like that.

10:25And we need to be able to identify who we can cooperate with. So the one way that we've done that is we've evolved these nonverbal communication tactics of showing trustworthiness. So rather than just saying, hey, you know, I'll cooperate with you, we need to instantly be able to detect who was cooperative. So we have evolve these behaviours which say I'm trustworthy so we can pick out who to cooperate with and there's a lot of argument on this topic that well that can't be the case because people could use these tactics and pretend to be cooperative and just show these trustworthy behaviours and actually be a deceptor, be deceptive but the thing is because we are a cooperative species that non-cooperator isn't going to last very long because in our social group we have process so if someone isn't cooperative all it takes is one person to say they didn't cooperate and then the whole group know they're a non-cooperator so we don't need to look for you know tactics of these cues of deception that's not what we've evolved to look for we've evolved to be quick and look for trustworthiness and we see it in modern day now you know if you want to go to a restaurant what is the first thing that you do you look on google for reviews look for what people have said about it if you're getting into a new relationship and you know that they know a friend first thing you do what are they like tell me about them have they done anything wrong because we count on the gusts of other people and we see it in celebrity magazines and all of these things we we thrive on it as a species because that's when we get our information about you know who is deceptive and who is trustworthy.

12:07And that's why it's so important not to view this, as you said earlier, as a toolkit, because your reputation builds trust. And if you're just turning it on and turning it off with certain people that you view as high value, you know, we use this example in class, how you treat the janitor is exactly how you should treat the executive of the company, because your reputation matters. And that consistency is huge to building the trust that you're looking for. Yeah, and you see in corporate a lot of the time, and people say, oh, well, you know, it is dog eat dog, because they're this way, and they're up at the top.

12:42They're doing amazing, and they're not cooperative, and they stand above people. And it's like, well, that doesn't mean that cooperation isn't a better way to go. They might be successful with their manipulative tactics, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't be more successful if they were cooperative. People are successful all the time using negative tactics but just because people are doesn't mean that is the only way to get there or the best way to get there. Just think if that person who is at the top for being manipulative decided to actually become trustworthy and be cooperative, imagine how much better they could do.

13:20And what you do see around people that have got that way and got to the top without being trustworthy and without being cooperative, you see this bad reputation around them. You see lawsuits and you see complaints and you see unhappy staff. You see staff that don't enjoy their jobs and staff that don't enjoy their jobs. What means, you know, a non-cooperative work environment, a non-productive work environment. So let's go to the heart of the matter. Jack Schaefer, the former FBI agent, walked us through the basics of a sincere human connection. Well, the first thing we need is proximity. You have to be proximal to somebody before you can even start a relationship.

14:01And in today's world, we can call that virtual proximity if you want, but you have to be in connection with somebody before a relationship can develop. The other thing about proximity is something you mentioned is if we see somebody every day and we're with them and we see them, we develop a mutual interest. Even if we don't talk to those people, we develop a mutual interest or like towards them. So that predisposes us to like somebody before we even open our mouths. Yeah. And in the book, you gave some great examples of going to the same place every day, knowing that the people you were trying to win over would frequent that place as well.

14:43Yeah. All you do is you show up, you don't intrude on people's lives. You just show up and be proximal. And then they determine if you walk in with the friend signals and you display friend signals when you're proximal to other people, then they'll know that you're not a threat. and they will display friend signals back and they'll know they're not a threat to you. And therefore, that's a predisposition to liking one another. Well, the first friend signal is a long distance friend signal and that's an eyebrow flash. That's a quick up and down movement of the eyebrows. It lasts about one 64th of a second.

15:23When we approach people, we send out this long distance signal that says, I'm not a threat. They in turn will return or reciprocate with a eyebrow flash that says, I'm not a threat either. And you see this most commonly in the workplace. When you pass one another in the halls, first time you see somebody in the day, you go, hey, how you doing? The second time you see that person, you don't have to say, hey, how you're doing. What you typically do will eyebrow flash one another. In the case of guys, they'll do a chin you up. They'll stick their chin out. All we're doing is telling each other we're not a threat.

16:03Those are signals that say, I'm not a threat. Yeah. It's that subtle acknowledgement of the other person. You're not ignoring them, obviously, and you're giving them an opportunity also to chat you up. Yeah. And what's interesting about that is it lasts about, you know, one 64th of a second. You don't even realize you're doing it. But once I tell people about the eyebrow flash, They go out and see it everywhere they go. And they come back and they say, my gosh, I can't believe that I've been eyebrow flashing people for years. And they've been eyebrow flashing me for years. And I just didn't realize it.

16:38I didn't even recognize it. But once you recognize something like that, when you approach another person, now you can intentionally make sure that you eyebrow flash that person to send that right friend signal to predispose them to like you. as you're approaching them. Yeah, I think it's, you know, we see what we're looking for, and it's not until you bring that to a conscious level that you're able to see those things. I know for our work that we've done at AOC, it's not until we videotape our clients and allow them to see it on playback of all these certain behaviors that unconsciously they have been doing that may or may not have been hurting or helping themselves.

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19:48Just go to Indeed.com slash charm right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed from this podcast. Indeed.com slash charm. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Do it the right way with Indeed. You know what drains your energy faster than a bad networking event? An overpriced phone bill. The big wireless companies love taking your money. They count on you not switching. Right now, Mint Mobile is running their best deal of the year. 50 % off all unlimited plans. That's$15 a month for unlimited. $15. That's less than most people spend on coffee in a week. You get high-speed data, unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network.

20:23Bring your current phone. Keep your number. No contracts. Turn your expensive wireless bill into actual savings. Go to mintmobile.com slash charm. That's mintmobile.com slash charm. Limited time offer. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 months required. That's$15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes when the network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Yeah, and the second friend signal would be the head tilt. So when we approach somebody, we want to make sure we tilt our head slightly to the left or slightly to the right.

21:06And what the head tilt does, it opens up your carotid artery and exposes it. And when you expose your carotid artery, it shows that you have trust in somebody because they could attack your carotid artery and kill you within minutes. So what you're telling that person is, I trust you. and if you really want to see this displayed anybody who has a dog as soon as you you enter the home your dog will sit there and typically tilt its head one way or the other or they'll flip over and expose their underbelly which is the weakest point of the body what they're saying is i trust you you know i don't see you as a threat guys run into this problem you know if If you keep your head upright in a business environment, that's a good thing because it shows that you're dominant and that you're not going to be taken advantage of.

22:01But then they take that same lack of head tilt and they bring it into social environment. So the people that they meet then are looking at them as dominant, overbearing people. And they don't realize how does why does that person see me that as that? And I'm not. Well, it's because they don't tilt their head. They're so used to doing that in the business world that they forget about converting to the social environment where you have to tilt your head. So these are like skill sets that you have become aware of and use the specific skill set in a specific time and place where it's appropriate. And that goes back to that third.

22:42We forgot about the third friend signal, and that's the smile. And that's very, very important because when we smile, we release endorphins and endorphins make us feel good about ourselves. So the golden rule of friendship says if you make yourself feel good about if you make other people feel good about themselves, they're going to like you more. So if I smile at somebody, they're going to get a shot of endorphins and then they're going to feel good about themselves and then they're going to like me more. So the smile is very important and it has to be a genuine smile. So if you're not up to a real smile, just make sure that you scrunch up the crow's feet around your eyes because the other person's brain is going to pick up on that signal that says that's a genuine smile versus a fake smile.

23:32Dr. Moreno, I agree with him there and also explains the effect that these have on others. And while understanding why these techniques work may be first, seem unnecessary detail, it is important to understand that body language isn't just a set of techniques. For the true master, it comes down to first principles and the interconnectedness of signals we send or receive. We'll look at this in more detail, but first, Dr. Morano. It starts with a smile. We know how important the smile is. And the smile truly is a social signal. Think about when you go bowling, when you hit a strike, you stay completely straight face when you hit the strike.

24:18It's only when you turn around and see people that you smile. You communicate, I'm excited, I'm happy. That's what the smile has evolved to do, to communicate, to communicate, I'm not a threat, I'm happy, I'm happy to see you. this funny thing happens when we see a smile and see a true genuine smile so when the upper cheeks are raised and we see the dutchman eyes um it releases it releases oxytocin and oxytocin suppresses that fight or flight instinct where we say you know i might not be safe i need to go or i might need to go the smile relaxes us and just says you know no it's safe it's fine um and any behavior that could expose a vulnerability so we've evolved like I said in a really dangerous environment and one part of our body that we protect is our throat which is why when we see things that scare us or when we hear bad news a lot of the time we we put our hand to our throat without realizing we protect our throat or if something has you know we've had horrible news we often kind of stroke our throat and it's that instinct to protect and they could be you know a predator or something that could harm us so when we want to show that we're trustworthy we kind of lean our head to the side to do this head tilt and we expose our neck because we're exposing a vulnerable part of our body and saying you know I don't think you're a threat I'm not a threat here's a vulnerable part to show you that I'm not a threat and dogs actually do that too and I think this behavior was first mentioned in Charles Darwin's book on the emotions of man and animals and he noticed it from his dog and he saw certain behaviors in his dog and then it kind of you know we started to learn oh humans do these too and then we really started to figure out you know this is a signal to say I'm trustworthy at the same and also anything that is very open so things like open postures and open palms so if I'm talking to you I have my palms facing outwards you can see what is in my hands I haven't got a weapon my hands are behind my back your brain says uh-oh there could be something there in the hand so always making sure that you are facing someone and have your palms out and showing you know I'm not hiding anything from you And this is also why people that hide information or hold back information can be perceived as untrustworthy.

26:45So when we tell kind of half-truths and we hold a bit of information back, and bosses do this all the time where you know there's some bad news, but they're not really telling you everything. It's that we don't know what it is that they have. So our brain says it's the worst it could possibly be. So we feel uncomfortable. we feel unconsciously that they are untrustworthy because it's that same feeling of there could be a threat there. I can't see that there isn't a threat. So my brain says there is. Well, what's so interesting in the work that we've done over the last 15 years is that we'll tell our clients, hey, smiling is important, but internally they feel like they are smiling all the time, yet they're not openly expressing that full face smile.

27:33And it takes us actually filming them and showing them the video for themselves to show the discomfort that they're showing in these situations where they're feeling a little bit of social anxiety, some tension and pressure. And once they realize just the simple change in that smile and showing it early and often as you communicate with someone, it leads to an entirely different interaction. So we're also wired to respond and turn and mirror back that smile and bring energy to our communication when we feel the other person is bringing that smile in and showcasing us that trustworthiness. So it really changes the tenor of the entire conversation.

28:12Yeah, it's emotional contagion. So if someone is showing you, I'm smiling, I'm happy, I'm really excited, you kind of get just instant more energy from interacting with them because you take on some of their emotions. Just like we have all been in a conversation with an energy drain where you are excited and they are so just mellow and their tone of voice is mellow and their behaviors are mellow and then you just start to feel tired it's the same thing it's just that we mimic people unconsciously and through that we take on their emotions and we can't help it again that's an evolved um behavior and that's why i did my phd in unconscious mimicry and it really does work they're most located.

28:59Talking of cues, Jack Schaefer has some advice specifically for introverts. What happens is when you walk into a room or a party and a shy person, an extrovert will just go make friends with people automatically. A shy person won't know who to make friends with or who to approach. The best way to find out who to approach is to look at people's feet. because if two people are standing toe-to-toe, they have a closed relationship right there. They don't want anybody else to join in. But if their toes are askance and there's an opening, that says that they're open to a new person to walk up and enter the group.

29:43So it works with larger groups when they're in semicircles. you can approach that group easier than if they're in a closed circle. So, you know, you can encourage people to look at the feet. In other words, if there's room for the feet, you can meet that person. Dr. Morano's research backs him up on this and raises a few important rules to consider. A really interesting study that I've recently done is looking at the power of the lower body to create perceptions of approachability. So we talked about this orientation facing someone and orientating towards them. And we know from research that when you orientate towards someone, you're perceived as more approachable.

30:29You're perceived as more warm and inviting. And I wanted to see if, OK, well, what about the lower body? What if my upper body is facing towards you, but my lower body is facing away? And what about my foot specifically? because we know that the lower body has an effect because studies have shown that the feet are honest so when we're nervous the rest of the body is saying I'm fine but the foot is tapping away because we think that people can't see it so if we're trying to control for our behaviors we think about my face my hands my upper body but we don't think okay I've got to control my feet we just kind of let them do their thing which is why I was really interested to see if the feet carry any effect.