In short
Podcast Summary: The Art of Charm - Making Friends As a Lone Wolf
Episode Overview In this episode of *The Art of Charm*, hosts Johnny, AJ, and Coach Michael Herold delve into the challenges adults face when it comes to making and maintaining friendships. They discuss the decline in social connections as people age and offer actionable strategies for cultivating lasting relationships. The episode is structured around several key themes, including understanding friendship dynamics, the traits of high-value friends, and efficient ways to build meaningful connections.
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Key Points
Introduction (0:00)
- Issue of Friendship Decline: Adults often find they have fewer friends as they age due to various life commitments.
- Objectives: The episode aims to provide strategies for rebuilding and maintaining friendships, focusing on high-value connections.
Why Friendships Diminish Over Time (10:05)
- Statistics: A study by Miller McPherson (2006) shows a significant reduction in Americans’ core discussion networks over two decades, with many reporting having no close confidants.
- Impact of Life Changes: Career demands and family responsibilities often take precedence over friendships, leading to neglect in maintaining connections.
Making Dynamic High-Value Friends (20:38)
- Finding Like-minded Individuals: Importance of identifying and connecting with people who share similar values and interests.
- Social Circles: Engaging in activities that naturally introduce you to potential friends.
Three Traits to Master for Popularity (38:46)
- Key Traits:
- Trustworthiness: Being reliable and consistent establishes a foundation for deeper connections.
- Warmth: Approachability and kindness attract others.
- Sense of Humor: Lightheartedness fosters a positive social environment.
- Leveraging Personal Value: Understanding and showcasing what unique qualities you bring to friendships can help in attracting like-minded individuals.
Efficiently Building Long-Lasting Friendships (38:46)
- Time Investment: Research indicates:
- 50 hours to transition from acquaintance to casual friend.
- 90 hours for casual to good friend.
- 200+ hours for good to close friend.
- Quality Over Quantity: Meaningful interactions rather than superficial ones lead to stronger relationships.
The Social Sales Funnel Concept
- Lead Generation: Meet new people through shared interests and activities.
- Qualification Process: Assess potential friends before investing significant time.
- Group Activities: Invite multiple people to engage in activities you enjoy, allowing for natural connections and discovery of like-minded individuals.
Actionable Strategies to Implement Immediately
- Engage in Social Activities: Join clubs or groups that align with your hobbies (e.g., sports, arts, volunteering).
- Invite Others to Your Passions: Use existing routines to include others without the pressure of extensive planning.
- Be Proactive: Take the initiative to reach out to acquaintances to rebuild old connections.
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Conclusion The episode concludes with an emphasis on the importance of nurturing friendships and actively seeking connections that enrich your life. By leveraging personal interests and being intentional in your approach, you can effectively build and maintain a vibrant social circle that supports and uplifts you.
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Final Thoughts Friendship is pivotal to emotional well-being and personal growth. As adults, it is crucial to adopt strategies that not only help you make new friends but also revive existing relationships that may have faded over time. Implementing the insights from this episode can propel you toward a more socially fulfilling life.
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Additional Resources
- Social Capital Course: For listeners looking to enhance their networking skills, the hosts recommend their *Social Capital* course available on their website.
- Join the Community: Engage with *The Art of Charm* community for further learning and support in personal development and relationship building.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Holiday season, travel, gifts, hosting, it's easy to lose sight of your money this time of year. I saw all the travel and gift expenses adding up and it was a wake-up call. Made me stop and adjust my spending before the credit card bill arrived. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch. Rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025, Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50 % off your first year.
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1:29they handle at the ideal moment. I love to add tasks by typing, talking, or even using my camera. Stuff is built to intake information quickly in whatever form you think in and turn it into actionable tasks right away. Lists and Stuff are built like completable projects. So that book you wanna write, that business you wanna start, or that trip you wanna plan starts to take form inside Stuff, step by step. The magic is it gets exponentially more powerful the more you feed into it. Download Stuff today. Start brain dumping and organizing your tasks and feel the freedom of an uncluttered brain. Download stuff for free today by going to trystuff.app.
2:07That's T-R-Y-S-T-U-F-F dot A-P-P. Or simply by searching stuff, S-T-U-F-F in the app store and to enjoy everything stuff has to offer. You can get 50 % off your first year of extra stuff by using code charm at checkout. Get stuff done and start closing your open loops. Download stuff from the App Store today. Johnny and AJ here. Are you ready to take your career to the next level in 2023? Looking to grow your high value social circle? You are one relationship away from changing your entire life. Your social circle, professional network, and lack of confidence are thwarting your attempts at accelerating your career.
2:51But there's something you can do about it. After coaching over 10 ,000 clients, including military special operators and Fortune 500 executives, we've learned a thing or two about what it actually takes to grow your network. In fact, over 90 % of the amazing guests on this show are from referrals in our own personal networks. We've packaged our best insights inside a course called Social Capital. And as a thank you for being a podcast listener, we want to give you this training for free to start your new year. Inside Social Capital, you'll get three resources to help you grow your network or social circle with simple, actionable tips to fill your inbox with connections and phone with messages to hang out.
3:34These resources include our famous Social Capital Formula, a simple strategy that you can use to grow your high-value network daily. Your network is your true net worth. To get your hands on this training and immediately start improving your relationships, go to theartofcharm.com slash SC. That's theartofcharm.com slash SC. Remember, you can do something to change your career trajectory and instantly grow your social capital today at theartofcharm.com slash SC. Welcome to the Art of Charm podcast, where we break down the science of powerful communication and winning mindsets so you have the cheat code to succeed with people.
4:18Every episode is jam-packed with actionable steps to unlock the hidden superpowers inside of you. Level up with us each week by listening to interviews with the best in business, psychology, and relationships. We distill thousands of hours of research in the most effective tools and the latest science so you can start winning today. Let's face it, in order to be seen and heard, your communication needs to cut through the noise and we're going to show you how. I'm AJ, successfully recovered introvert, entrepreneur, and self-development junkie. And I'm Johnny Zubak, former touring musician, promoter, rock and roller, and co-founder here at The Art of Charm.
4:52And for the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of top performers and teams from every background. We have dedicated our lives to teaching men and women all they need to know about communication, networking, and relationships. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. All right, I'm really excited for today's toolbox because it's the one question that absolutely almost every single one of our clients in our one-on-one coaching, as well as our group coaching programs, Elite Human Dynamics, ask us, which is how can I make more friends? And oftentimes we come to this conclusion because we've held onto some friends from different phases of our lives before we had kids, before we made that career change, maybe it was high school or college.
5:39And we recognize that we We want to add more to our social lives. We want to be more dynamic and interesting and be surrounded by dynamic and interesting, high-value people. And of course, for many of us, we've put so much time and energy into our career and then so much time and energy into building a family, we feel like we might be losing friends more than we're gaining friends. So how do we effectively gain friends, build these great friendships as adults? Well, we have to admit, it is difficult. And one of the main reasons it's difficult is because we have less time. And the science tells us that we need to be spending time with people in order for these relationships to happen.
6:18But we also know that with these other choices, work and family, we prioritize our friends less. And we end up staying in touch with them less. And we end up slowly drifting away from the people that matter in our lives. And what is the science saying around this feeling that we're all having as adults, Michael? So there is a seminal study that we've talked about often on the show, and this is done by Miller McPherson in 2006. It's called Social Isolation in America Changes in Core Discussion Networks Over Two Decades. And this pivotal study found that Americans' core discussion networks, so the really close people in your life that you discuss those important matters with, They have significantly shrunk between 1985 and 2004.
7:10So between 1984 and 2004, there were the number of people that said, I have no one to discuss really important matters with. People that said that have tripled in those two decades. In 85, when participants were asked how many close confidants they had, the most common answer was three. In 2004, the most common answer was zero. And this is true for both family and friendship confidants. It's a powerful trend that we all might be feeling. And of course, COVID may have exacerbated with us being even further separated from our peer groups, our friends, and our connections. and when we think about building friendships, building new relationships, growing our social circle or our wolf pack, as we like to call it, it feels overwhelming, right, Johnny?
8:08It feels daunting. It certainly does. And there's a lot too. I mean, one of the reasons is I think it's difficult for us to tap into just how our peer groups and social groups and networks have been depleted over time. You mentioned COVID. That certainly didn't help anything. And for a lot of people, they had to figure out how to maintain in a very insular way due to everything that was going on in order to survive. And one of those ways was, well, we stayed connected through the internet and through all of this technology. However, what people are now waking up to is that that technology and the networks that we had built through it and those relationships are sort of, they're like, they're an illusion.
9:00because the reality of it, and we've talked about this with many different experts, and they've all said the same things. Our online relationships are basically the equivalent to eating a McDonald's, a Big Mac when you're starving. And sure, it may do the job in that moment to allow you to to feel better and stave off that hunger, but it's nutrition is very limited. And of course, we're hungry again later. These are very superficial relationships. So we wake up to that reality and then it's all of a sudden it's, Oh, you know what? I do need replacement friends. I have allowed my social circle to be depleted and it needs to be built back up again.
9:51so if you've been out of the market and out of going out for quite a long time maybe you were raising the kids maybe you were putting your all of your energy and effort into building your business and to get it to where you need it to go and now you're looking around going wow i'm really excited i would love to to enjoy the successes that i have put together with somebody friends uh romantic relationships and we're looking around we're like wow you know i really don't have me. So where do I begin? And for a lot of us, the idea of trucking back out to the bars or heading out to the clubs, it's like, why am I going to do that?
10:32A lot of those efforts put us in a position where we have to engage in activities that take us off of our A game. If I just spent five years building my business and putting everything into it, why am I going to now start going out and getting hammered where I can't maintain all the habits and routines that I've put together to be successful. So this opens up like, wow, I haven't been in the game so long that it can be overwhelming. So where do I go? How do I begin meeting people? How do I break into some new groups so I can start meeting some new friends? How do I become efficient with my time and energy so that I'm taking advantage of the efforts that I'm putting in.
11:18This gets overwhelming to all of us. And Michael brings up a great point around close confidants, because much of what we're seeing online is the highlight reel. And we've talked about this. And when you see your friends, your peers highlight reel, you feel less comfortable sharing your vulnerable sides, the things that you wouldn't post on social media. and we have to call out the elephant in the room, it's often hard for you to pick up a relationship that's drifted away, to put yourself out there and be like, hey, I got too busy. Hey, I was too focused on my career and we let time pass and we haven't spoke, we haven't hung out in a while.
11:59That can feel really daunting to be the first one to reach out. And for some people that can even feel like an admission that you did something wrong. But this is happening, this trend is happening on both sides. Both of you are feeling that on both sides of the connection that you had. And oftentimes it just takes you sharing a photo of a great experience you had. Maybe it was a kayaking trip in college that you had together. Maybe it was the last time you went to the football game and tailgated. You share that photo, sparks the positive memory, and then the other person is so happy to hear from you.
12:32But we struggle to reach back out to those connections that are drifting away. So immediately a lot of our clients will go, okay, well, I just need to find new people. And finding new people can be even more difficult with the pack schedule, with a lot going on on your plate, when your career, with your family, growing your business, your side hustles, all these other things that are consuming our time. And what's often the easiest way for us to de-stress, to find some space between career and family is to do activities alone, to find that hobby that allows you to just completely unplug. And that might be mountain biking.
13:10That might be camping on your own. That might be building model airplanes where you just get to paint and you're just in the moment, completely consumed in something that you're passionate about. And of course, these activities, they're solo. They're not an opportunity for you to be meeting new people. They're not an opportunity for you to be inviting the people that you already are connected with, your acquaintances or your friends that have drifted away back into your life. And it can feel very quickly like you're on the path of being a lone wolf, losing the wolf pack, not gaining the wolf pack.
13:44So what is the first step is how can we tap back in to that state where we are at our best? We are passionate. We are having a great time. We're relaxed. We're comfortable. And how can we do that with new people or people we already know and strengthen those relationships and give us a chance to build new friendships? And that's exploring your hobbies in a way that allows you to socialize, in a way that actually brings people back into your life instead of you spending another Sunday afternoon doing it alone, watching the ballgame alone, building the model airplane alone, going on the hike alone.
14:25Yeah, I want to add, this is the same thing that we discuss to help with dates. Who wants to go on a date sitting across the table from somebody that they don't know, hoping that magic happens, right? No one wants to be in that position. And in fact, I think all of us have been in that position too many times to want to have to do that again. So by focusing on your passions and interests and core values in a social way, Well, this makes the priority of getting together the event, the passion that you're sharing, the interest that you have together. So you can focus on that. Everything else, the magic moments will happen naturally.
15:12You can't force those magic moments, right? And this becomes difficult because everyone starts to think like, well, I don't even know anyone who thinks like me or that I get along with right now. That's okay. hey, that will come later. First, let's find some interest, passions, and core values that we can engage in a social manner so that it's naturally to hang out with other people. And let's be honest. I'm not saying hike every day with a group of people. I'm not saying go on your runs with a group of people. I totally understand the presence and the solitude and the enjoyment and fulfillment you get out of doing activities alone.
15:52But if you once a week can engage with the run club, if you once a week can do a workout class where you're socializing, if you once a week can go to the hiking meetup group and hike in a social environment, you are creating space for the connection that you're craving, for the friendship and tribe and wolf pack that you want to build. If we don't create that space, it's not going to happen on its own. We just know that as these scientific studies shared by Michael show us that we're drifting further away from close confidants if we let nature and technology take their course right now. So the first step is recognizing, okay, I want to build and foster better relationships.
16:39Friendship is important to me. For some of our clients, it's recognizing, unfortunately, that their spouse is now shouldering the kin work, their best friend, their confidant, their partner, their adventurer. And all of this pressure is now on your significant other and your spouse to be your therapist, to be your coach, to be there, to be that confidant, to hear about the ball game, to hear about what your kids are doing that you're excited about. And that's a lot of pressure on the other person that you care the most about in your life. It's a lot of roles for them to play and vice versa. Emails that we get and when we're talking with clients, it's usually I'm driving my spouse crazy.
17:22I'm putting all this pressure to be all these things on her or him. And I need to make relationships outside of my main relationship or all of that pressure is going to collapse my most important relationship. And this is something that you have to come to terms with out of respect for your partner and your relationship. Well, sometimes it's their partner pushing and prodding them to join our coaching program to work with us because their partner is saying, I can't do it. You know, and one of my favorite examples. So Aaron started working with me in executive coaching program and his passion was mountain biking in Chicago.
18:05Now, as you can imagine, it's not what first snaps to mind when you think of mountain biking. And of course, for him, mountain biking was a way to get on his own, to explore the mountain on a bike, to be out in nature and in almost a meditative way for him. But at the same time, he was feeling a lot of pressure that his social group was starting to drift away and really center itself around drinking. And as Johnny said earlier, he wasn't necessarily into just going to bars week in and week out in order to have that socialization. So we worked together on a battle plan to actually train for a mountain bike race.
18:42Now you wouldn't think a mountain bike race would necessarily be social, but actually it's what happens after the race. So if you've ever run a marathon, you've ever done an adventure race, if you've ever done an obstacle course, yes, the race is competitive and you're trying to beat your time and you're trying to beat others and you're tapping into what you love about yourself, performing at your best. But then after, there's this euphoria when everyone is in a great state and you all accomplish something together. You took on this crazy course. It was muddy. It was rainy. You completed it. And you also have a shared passion for racing, for mountain biking, for obstacle courses.
19:20So by grabbing a six-pack of non-alcoholic beer and hanging out instead of just going home after the race to share with his fiancee how he did, he is actually able to find a community in Chicago of guys who go mountain biking regularly that he now could share his passion with and create space to socialize. And for him, that was really important because they're not necessarily heavy drinkers, Chicago style drinkers, as Johnny and I know, and we're well aware of from a bootcamp in Chicago, right? They're guys who get up early on a Saturday and take on the mountain. So that's not staying out late on a Friday and hitting the wiener circle and then not making it up in the morning.
20:01Well, I want to add to this as well. You mentioned something that's very important that I want to highlight, which is after the event, everyone, if it's an adventure, right, is going to be in this euphoric state. Well, what is the natural mechanism that allows people to connect? It is being in a heightened emotional state together, right? If you're going through an emotion together, you naturally bond to the other person who's experiencing it as well. So this creates a, that natural state for two people to connect and then have that experience to look back upon as to why they're connected and, and and what their relationship is about.
20:48It makes it, it's natural. Now you don't have to force those magic moments. Yeah, and for our military special forces especially, some of the closest bonds they have are with their peers in the foxhole together. Talk about a negative emotion, the fear, the anxiety around actually facing war, but the positive emotions also put us in that heightened emotional state and create the space, as Johnny said, the magic moment for that deeper connection. And what's really funny about it, so with that came training for a race. And all of a sudden, his goal of being healthier and choosing the bar less than the gym became even easier because now he's training for a race.
21:29So it was a twofer for Aaron to create space in his life to meet like-minded people, to grow his social circle outside of his bar friends, and to dial in his health even further, which was really important to him as a busy executive. So we understand that it's hard. The science shows we're all drifting and feeling this tear in our social fabric, in our relationships. So I want to talk about the next big thing that we see going on and a common frustration that our clients have. And that is quite simply, not knowing what you have to offer. When you've been knee deep in diapers and you've been really focused on your career and you've been juggling a workload and a side hustle and getting your real estate business off the ground, it can be hard to think, well, what do I have to offer?
22:17I'm not in college anymore. I'm not playing intramural sports. I'm not in Greek life. You know, what are the values that I'm offering to socialize with? I see everyone else has vibrant social circles in lives. And you could start to think, well, based on social media and based on what you're seeing when you're out, like, man, I don't have much to offer. What is the value that I have to offer my network or my social circle? And that can also make it feel daunting for creating new relationships. It's kind of that roadblock to you feeling like, well, let me go after it. If we're going at this in a methodical scientific manner and you enjoy this podcast, odds are that you're analytical mindset leaning, which means you're problem solution oriented.
23:03And that mindset works really well when you're building things, when you're putting things together when you're looking at processes, but that mindset also has its limitations and its limitations is in connecting and sharing an emotional space with others, which is just a different skill set. But what comes with that, one of the dangers, the cons to that analytical mindset as well is it's analysis to paralysis, making excuses, overanalyzing the situation. And so what we need is steps and actionable steps that we can work and engage in to get out of that thinking and moving into having an understanding of what that self-worth is.
23:54And it's very important to begin to make a list. Think about what your skills are. What are your interests? And how can you use those and leverage those interests in meeting new people? And we have to be honest, the Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and real here, but it's the reverse. So oftentimes, Dunning-Kruger effect, to break it down, is those who are actually low skilled in an area will often overestimate their skillset. Well, the opposite is also true. So you actually have a lot more value, but because you're a top performer and you're so hard on yourself, you might be a perfectionist, you might view yourself as having even bigger goals that you haven't reached yet, you will often diminish the value you add to your social life.
24:44You will think of yourself as boring compared to others. You will think of yourself as uninteresting. You will think of yourself as not having much to add and offer new social relationships. And that's just you as a top performer being extra hard on yourself. So we have to recognize the reverse Dunning-Kruger effect here because it does impede us from putting ourselves out there and throwing ourselves into new social relationships. It can feel easier to hold on to relationships then that maybe don't fit your core values anymore. that maybe were just those drinking buddies, but now your life isn't revolving around alcohol, so it's not as important to you.
25:21AJ, this also involves a bit of flipping the script as well. Because once we realize, hey, you know what? I need a new Wolfpack. The first thought is, well, I need to find a Wolfpack to join. Well, those other Wolfpacks have already been created and solidified, and in order for you to break in, Somebody has to think that you are worth opening the doors and vouching for in order to get accepted into this new Wolfpack. Now, that is definitely something that you could be searching for. However, the things that you chase tend to run from you. So you have to focus on building your own relationships in your own Wolfpack.
26:08and doing the work to be a high value person that others are going to want to hang out with and connect with. Of course, that takes having an understanding of the value that you have. Age is going to get into that in a moment. While you are creating your own Wolfpack and you becoming the nucleus of that Wolfpack, the center of it, other people are going to be able then to see the value that you do have and the other people that you're, that you're helping out, that you're adding value to their lives. Now, all of a sudden, other Wolfpacks want you to be in their Wolfpack, right? So now they're opening the doors.
26:51They're like, well, okay, guess what? AJ's been going golfing with these people. He's connected with these people and they've all got together and now they're doing all these things. I want to be doing that too. You know what we should be combining wolf packs. We, I didn't meet up and see what those guys are going because remember folks, the grass is always greener on the other side. So if you are out doing things, you're connecting with people and they see that they want to be a part of that. That's the, that's going to come to them naturally. But if you're the guy who's always knocking on the door going, Hey guys, what are you up to today?
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30:28Yeah, I just wanted to jump in here and almost interrupt Johnny because here's where science comes to the rescue because this is actually one study that I want to present in this episode that's actually really good news compared to the doom and gloom that often comes with social isolation and building friendships and so on. But this study here by Sprecher and Reagan in 2002, this was published in the Journal of Social and Personal Relationships. And yes, there is a journal about the social and personal relationships out there, and it's actually quite influential. So this study looked at the qualities that people prioritize in friendships as well as in romantic relationships.
31:11but I'll put that to the side for another episode and just look at those platonic relationships, those friendships. So the main findings in that study was that what people are really looking for is trustworthiness. It's warmth. It's a sense of humor. Those were the most highly valued attributes that people were looking for. Now, how easy is it to bring those values forth? We're not asking for a PhD in neuroscience, right? We're asking for trustworthiness, for warmth, for a little bit of humor, for a smile, for a little bit of ease in talking to people and cracking a smile easily. How easy is that to do?
31:57So what they also found is that there is a preference for people that share your values and that share your beliefs. So that is your wolf pack, right? You're not going to someone who believes in the exact opposite and values the exact opposite. And your wolf pack consists of mountain bikers and not of people that go drinking because that's what they enjoy. And that works perfectly well. You just come together with people that have those similar values. Now, even in romantic relationships, these internal qualities like trustworthiness, warmth, what I've just mentioned, they also increase there.
32:37At the beginning, it's a little bit different. There's attractiveness and all the superficial stuff, especially in the first, second date. But over time then, these exact qualities are also those that are prioritized the most. And in that study that they quote, in both types of relationships, the most preferred qualities were, again, trustworthiness, warmth, and a sense of humor. It's that simple. So how do we leverage the science here? And this is what we call our social capital. It's really built on three pillars. It's your relationships, it's your knowledge, and it's your emotional support.
33:17So you already have relationships. And if you can introduce people who can help one another, who share the same values, who are great people, you're the linchpin. You're the person that they're going to think of that brought them together. that increases your social value. That makes you trustworthy, right? It implicitly makes you trustworthy if you're sharing your relationships. Now, knowledge. Okay, let's be honest. Maybe your knowledge in your career isn't that impactful to your social circle. I, for one, don't wanna be constantly coaching all of my friends and talking about everything we talk about on the podcast here.
33:56Maybe you don't wanna be doing your friend's taxes. Maybe you don't wanna be giving your friend's investment advice. Totally get it. Your knowledge in your career is only one facet of the knowledge you have. You might know how to swing the golf club better than anyone. You might know how to master your short game. You might know where all the best micro brews are in the greater Chicago area. That's knowledge that's valuable to your friend group. One of our clients, Chris, so he has a friend who's leveraged this to a T. His knowledge is all the best new restaurants in his town. He loves food. He reads all the food bloggers and critics.
34:36And he knows when a restaurant is opening so well that he will sometimes get invited to their soft opening before anyone else gets an invite. And that knowledge he's used to bring his friends together to come into town from the suburbs and hang out. And when I was talking to Chris about this, a light bulb went off. He was like, wait a second. My friend is using his social capital to bring us together. that's an example of knowledge that's really impactful and valuable to your social circle i know a guy just like that right and so when i go to to dinner with that guy who i know knows these restaurants and knows food better than me i don't even look at the menu i i go it's listen man i know you know this stuff better than me and it's all you go ahead and order for the table you You know that guy, AJ?
35:28Yeah, you're welcome, Johnny. I need that knowledge in my life. I feel I spend so much time looking what events are happening here in Vienna. What's cool, what's not, where do I need to go? What do I need to try out? What are new restaurants? What do I eat in that restaurant? I feel I spend so much time doing that. I just want an AJ to call up and be like, okay, AJ, I'm in this restaurant here in Vienna. You've never been there, but what do you think I should be eating here and where should I go afterwards? Well, the reason I bring that up is because AJ, that's an interest of his, right? And I'm going to go, I know how much effort that he puts in and how much of a food he is.
36:12So by letting him order for the table, I mean, he gets excited, but he's always like, let, and I got to say, AJ, you always have a big smile on your face because you know you get to go at it with the menu. Yeah. And that knowledge, it's so vast. You just have to take a second and think about, okay, what are you super interested in and passionate about? And what are those little rabbit holes that you find yourself falling down? You know, my buddy Adam, he could snag concert tickets and time it just right when the ticket prices were dropping. And he would send a text message out. He's like, hey, do you want to go to the show tonight?
36:45Literally tonight. Because he was able to snag the Guns N' Roses tickets that I thought were sold out. And all of a sudden I'm going to a show. That was Adam's knowledge. It wasn't anything about what he was doing in his career. So when you think about your social capital, the value that you add, we have to really take account of all the different facets of our life where we've explored, we've dug in deep, and we can use that. We can add that value to other people's lives. Maybe it's that hidden parking lot that's close to the farmer's market on Sunday that no one knows about. You invite your friends and you show them how to park there, that's incredibly valuable to them to get their organic farmer produce.
37:23So once we understand knowledge, again, that's increasing our trustworthiness and it's warmth, right? If you're sharing knowledge with someone, you obviously feel really good about them. The other piece is emotional support. And emotional support, it's one of those tricky ones that's a little counterintuitive because of course we think, oh, well, I'm such a supportive friend. I'm thinking about people. I'm constantly letting them know that I care about them. I'm asking them how I can help them. That may feel like emotional support that you're offering it. But what real emotional support is, is being there in their life to celebrate the highs and actually care for them in the lows.
38:01It's not to ask them, what do you need? That's not helpful. And that's not real emotional support because often our friends don't know what we need. But if they just got a job and they posted it on LinkedIn or their son was just born, it's showing up at the house and bringing a gift and being so excited for this moment in their life. Or if something difficult happened to them, it's calling them saying, hey, let's go out to eat. I wanna hear everything about, I wanna help, I wanna support you. Not what can I do to support you? So sorry to hear that. Thumbs down emoji on social media, a comment.
38:34That's not real emotional support in a way that actually increases your social capital. It's great that you brought this up. And it's interesting because I was recently doing some editing on an old David Goggins video, an interview that we had done years ago. And we were discussing our relationships and the goals that we've set out and the emotional support that we get. Right. And there's this big there's a saying that everyone's heard a million times of you always find out who your friends are at your lowest moments. right? And everyone, I think everyone can understand that, but there's also the opposite side of that.
39:15You're also going to find out who your friends are when you're hitting your stride, when you're crushing it, because the emotions of what, everything that you had to do to climb over every hurdle to get to that place, right? Has an effect on somebody watching you do that. They are either going to get fired up and cheer you on because now they have hope that, well, if AJ did this, I can do it too. And so they're going to be there, rah, rah, rah. But you're also going to find out who's watching you do these things and get envious and get jealous and get frustrated about their own life and then either leave or take shots at their friends.
40:05This is important information to understand. And no matter what you might be feeling, maybe you're watching your friend bust those hurdles and achieve some aspirations that they've been working towards. And maybe you get angry inside. Maybe you get a little frustrated. It's important to recognize that. So you go, you know what? That's not who I want to be. I want to be the guy cheerleading my buddy so that he can help me with my steps. So regardless of the initial trauma that I'm going through of watching that, I want to be the high value guy. And guess what? This is an emotional growth that you are training yourself for so that you're not subjected and being a slave to your initial emotions, but you are growing and becoming and maturing into the person of the emotions that you want to foster in yourself and the relationships that you want to be fostering that are going to take you to where you want to go.
41:11That emotional support also happens in the messy middle. Oh, yeah. So what I want to point out is like, for many, it's like, okay, AJ, I get it. Like cheer them on when they're winning the race and be there for them when they fail the race. Actually, there's a lot of emotional support in the middle. And we see this on our boot camps in our experience with clients. So when we go out on field night and we have these experiences of putting these skills into practice and working on becoming more charismatic and confident in social settings, of course there's gonna be mistakes made. Of course there's gonna be putting yourself out there.
41:47There's gonna be failures. There's gonna be the messy middle of trying to figure out how to put all these strategies into action. Well, the next morning, all of our clients come together and we go around the room and we brag about one another. Now you could enter that room feeling really hard on yourself. Like, man, that night really didn't go well. I had a goal of talking to 20 people and making some new friends and getting some phone numbers. And I only really approached a few and the conversations didn't go the way I thought they would. But when you hear someone else in the room brag about how they felt inspired by you walking up to that person, by you putting yourself in the arena, by you challenging yourself, knowing that that's outside of your comfort zone, those are the most impactful moments of the bootcamp experience because you're seen and validated for your effort, not for your result.
42:38So if you want to grow your social capital, don't just think about the highs and the lows of being there to celebrate the birth and being there when they get fired, but be there in the moment where they inspired you to put on your running shoes because they signed up for the mountain biking race. They inspired you to book that trip to Italy because you saw their photos on Instagram. That's real emotional support. That's the warmth, the trustworthiness, and the fun, the levity that we need to be bringing to foster these great social relationships and ties in our lives. And if we're constantly focused on either ourselves and the comparison, as Johnny was saying, and sometimes the envy that comes out of this moment, we're not going to be there in the emotional supportive way that actually fosters the relationships we want.
43:30Yeah. And this brings up a great story. So one of our clients, Mark, he was new to a country club that he was going in and wanted to get invited to more partnerships of playing golf. Mark was looking to join in on some more foursomes and meet some new people and play. And he's began to show more interest into what the folks that he's been meeting and what they had going on and what they were aspiring to. And by checking in with them and encouraging them and, oh, it's great to hear about that. And then maybe see them a week later and ask them how that event went, found himself getting asked to play in more foursomes.
44:13And he was really excited to see just how easy it was to show people that he's engaged with what they're doing. He's taking an interest. And with that, well, they wanted to be around more of that. They're like, well, this guy seems quality. This guy's engaged with what's going on around him. We need to get that guy to come out on our next round. Now, obviously, you're busy. You're getting after it. You're goal-oriented, growth-minded, and we know you have some big, hairy, audacious goals for yourself. So now you're thinking, how the hell am I going to find all of this time in my life to make new friends, to deepen relationships that have drifted away?
44:52and this is where the science is important, but we're going to teach you after you learn this lesson of science how to be more efficient and effective with your use of time. So what does the science say about building these real relationships? Yeah, you definitely want to learn to be efficient with your time when you hear those numbers. So this is Jeffrey Hall, 2018, again, Journal of Social and Personal Relationships. The title of that study is very aptly, how many hours does it take to make a friend? very much to the point. And the authors were looking at how many hours it typically takes to form different levels of friendships, so from very loose to very close.
45:33And what they found was, get your pen and paper ready, dear listener. It generally takes about 50 hours of time spent together to move, not from I met you to you're my best buddy, but it takes 50 hours to move from a mere acquaintance to casual friends, 50 hours. It takes roughly 90 hours of time spent together to go from casual friend to good friend. And if you're already breaking out a sweat, it takes more than 200 hours to go from good friend to very close friend, to that confident, to that best friend. Now, I'm loosely throwing out numbers here, but the researchers were very clear on the fact that the type of activity was a major role in how quickly that friendship formed.
46:33Simply spending time together, sitting next to each other on the bus or sitting next to each other watching YouTube or TikTok videos doesn't count. This needs to be quality time. This needs to be quality activity of things that both of you enjoy and you can support each other in. And intimate and deep conversations and those shared routines or group settings, as in the golf example with Mark, can also very much accelerate a friendship development. But it does take a lot of time. When we're an adult and we have our lives set up and our career is going, and maybe we have a family. We're going to do everything that we can to protect those things.
47:18So I can't just open the doors to my life and bring in anyone who is interested in coming into my life because their actions could harm my career. Those actions could harm my family. When you're 21, it's easy to make friends. In fact, you can find your best friend forever around the corner and it's like, hey, I want to get messed up tonight. Do you want to get messed up? Hey, that sounds great. Awesome. We're getting messed up together. We are new best friends. But that's when you're young. You don't have any momentum in your life. You're still floundering. So as we become these adults, we are very concerned and discerning about who it is that is going to be coming in and who we are going to spend that time with and invest in to build these relationships.
48:08And it's not only the, this could harm my network, this could be a bad influence. There's also opportunity cost. Think about 200 hours, that's a long time over a couple of weeks, months, if not years. Now you're meeting someone who's like, nah, it's kind of okay. It's a friend of convenience. Do you really want to use that time to spend investing in this friendship when that is time taken away from fostering really meaningful friendships with those that share your values, share your beliefs that are trustworthy, that are warm, that have that sense of humor? will you invest it there because you only have that much time in the year next to your education, your family, your hobbies, your health, your sleep, your work.
48:56There's very little time left. And that is the being efficient with your time and with your approach that AJ mentioned earlier. We also need to be a little bit picky on who gets that attention and time from us. And of course, in this experiment, in this study, they were not the most masterful communicators. They were not experts at getting vulnerable and sharing stories and creating the conversation that actually deepens ties. And we're going to share that in an upcoming toolbox of how to actually speed this up even further in terms of strategies. But I want to point out that time spent together doesn't have to be one-on-one.
49:39This is a huge unlock for a lot of our really busy professionals who are looking to grow their wolf pack. They think in their mind, okay, AJ, for me to commit an entire Saturday afternoon to someone only to find out that it's not a good fit, or for me to chase this person to dinner and that's a dinner away from my kids and that's a dinner away from me working on my side hustle, and only to find out that we don't have any values. This isn't really that interesting to me. That's a big commitment. And oftentimes that's because you're just saying yes to everything. You're not intentional with creating the space.
50:15And of course, without intention, we can't even remotely become efficient. So the unlock is what we call our social sales funnel. And if you're familiar with sales funnels, this is going to sound very refreshing to know that we can use this in our social life, but let's just quickly walk you through a funnel, as we know, wide at the top and narrow at the bottom. The first step in the social sales funnel is you gotta get leads, you gotta be meeting people, you gotta get people on board to even want to spend time with you. That's pretty clear, we've talked about that earlier in this episode, how we need to start engaging in more activities and passions that involve socialization to create the leads.
50:54But what do we do with all of those people? Well, if you're only hanging out one-on-one, you're basically a secretary chasing them down, trying to figure out in your busy schedule how to get together. Then you're trying to figure out, well, what can I do with this person and how do I fit it in with my schedule? And you're just taking a complete stab in the dark that this person might actually be a good fit to spend 200 hours with, right? So we want to clear up all of that and make it effective in your time. So the middle step is where we actually qualify those leads in a sales funnel. Now in our social sales funnel, we want to do the same thing.
51:33We want to qualify the people that we're going to give more time to based on our interests and passions and the things we already love doing. Because if we already love doing them, it's going to be quality time. We're going to be at our best. And we're going to invite multiple people to do it together with us. Now, this invite, this hangout, creating space in your life to have many people hanging out with you at once is to Johnny's point earlier, going to showcase to these people that you already have a wolf pack. You're not a lone wolf. They're not going to sit there at dinner, checking notes.
52:11How long have you known AJ? Have you spent 200 hours with AJ? Why are you friends? No, they're going to assume that we're all together. You got the group together. Hey, this is AJ's Wolfpack. He's inviting me to my Wolfpack. So I'm now going to start thinking, well, what can I do to invite AJ to my Wolfpack? Because I'm meeting AJ's Wolfpack. That's number one. Number two, I want you to not throw a crazy party, a backyard Labor Day barbecue that requires you manning the grill for hours and prepping and then cleaning up. I want you to leverage things you're already doing, that you enjoy doing, and invite others to do them with you.
52:52And this could be literally as monotonous as going to the farmer's market on Sunday and saying, hey, I'm going to pick up some produce. I love this one farmer's stand. He's got great apples this time of year. And inviting a few people to come meet you at the farmer's market. Odds are they probably have to get quality organic produce for their family too. And it's an opportunity for you to start to create that space doing things you're already doing. That didn't take you rearranging your whole schedule. That didn't take you printing out banners and party hats and favors. That's something you're doing that you're passionate about because you care about your health and you care about organic produce.
53:33And the people who say yes to that, well, they're starting to show you that they're qualified, that they actually care about those things too. So we're creating more space in our life. Another example, I have a client who loves after a long day of work, once or twice a week, he loves sitting on his porch in the summer and smoking a cigar. Now, in the past, when I had shared with him, hey, let's host an event, let's invite some people into your life. He's like, AJ, when I throw a barbecue, it's a whole day of my time. And it's chasing people and it's letting them know this is happening. And then they want to ask what dishes to bring.
54:08It's complicated. No, no, no, no. We're not complicating this. Invite those neighbors that you see when you're walking your dog and they wave at you and invite those people that you've met through your business connections over to your house to smoke from your massive humidor, one of your cigars that you love. Share this passion around cigar smoking and do something you're already going to do anyways. You're doing that on Thursdays, but invite some people to it. Now, your natural next question is, AJ, well, what if they say no? What if they don't show up? Now I'm hosting things, I'm inviting people, and they're not showing up.
54:43Here's the key, unlock. And my client, Ed, recognized this very early on. So when he started inviting people, trying to network and grow his new friend circle in San Francisco, moving there, he would send out invites and way less people would say yes. And even of the people who said yes, a lot of people would end up flaking, right? So they're low on the trustworthiness. They're not keeping their word. But what he found was he started getting invited to other people's events and gatherings and things simply because he invited them. He was signaling to them, I want you in my wolf pack. And that signal was received.
55:29And in turn, they reciprocated and said, you know what? The next time I have something going on, I'm gonna think of Ed. Ed invited me. And there was a reciprocity in the invite. that led to him meeting new people, hearing about new events and getting invited to other things simply because he was doing the inviting. And the first couple of weeks of inviting, he was a little frustrated. I'm not gonna lie, I get it. You know, you want everyone to show up. You wanna have a great time. You want more people in your life. You're feeling you wanna be efficient. But this actually is the most efficient because you're sending out the signal to everyone that I'm looking to grow my circle.
56:04I want you in my circle. That's as clear as you can get. not in any way, but in a very high value way that shows them you're trustworthy, you're warm, you're fun, you're thinking of them. And this can very quickly, you do this for just a couple months time, regular things you're doing. And maybe once in a while you go a little crazy like our client, Daniel, who loves airplanes and loves rock and roll in Alaska. So he got a hanger and got his favorite bands together and started inviting everybody new two months out to this concert that he was gonna put on. And all of a sudden he had a packed hanger, a bunch of people that love music because that was something he's super passionate about.
56:50But you could start as small as a beach day and some beach volleyball. It doesn't have to be at your house. There's no cleanup. You can go big and you can invite a bunch of people over to watch football on Sunday or hang out in the pool and bring their kids over. And you can barbecue. if you love barbecuing and it's what you do every weekend anyways. But we are leveraging our passions, our time, and all these great connections we've made in a way that we spend more time together. We're amplifying our time spent. So instead of one-on-one trading our time for one-on-one with people who might not be qualified, who aren't a great fit for friends, we're getting a bunch of them together.
57:29And guess what? The ones that you got great vibes from, the ones that actually said thank you. Maybe they brought something over. Maybe they brought their own cigar. Maybe they shared a cigar place that they love going to. That's the person that you pursue a little further and try to hang out with one-on-one. That's the person who's saying, hey, I'm a great fit to be your friend. I'm really interested in this too. That's the bottom of the funnel, right? You've now qualified who you want to spend more time with working towards that 200 hours, right? Like This person has shown that they are worth that time and effort.
58:09And guess what? The return that you get out of it makes you excited to spend more time with them. And you don't have to worry about putting in effort and energy to be taken advantage of, which is a big concern for a lot of people. Everybody has been in situations where they feel they're putting in all this effort and And people seem to take, take, take, but never put anything in. Well, this gives you that opportunity to figure out who is worth that extra time and energy. So building friendships as adults, we admit it can be hard without the right strategies, without the right mindset, and not finding the right values in others.
58:52But today's episode, we shared some insight in what we do with our clients and our coaching programs, busy professionals, and those who are just looking to rebuild the social circle, or maybe lost some friends due to a life change, a move, or even divorce, so that you can start leveraging your passions, your time, and your values in a way that creates friendship in your life when everyone else is feeling more and more disconnected.
59:31All right, AJ, we got a shout out here that I would love to share with our audience. And it begins with, hey, AJ and Johnny, your program Captivate and Connect has been a game changer for me. Your five-minute favor exercise has made a big difference. And your ideas about the four values, supplication, combative, et cetera, were super insightful. People are now noticing how jovial I am. That's some words from my coach. So thank you guys for the course, Michael. And AJ, I have to say, this is what I love about what we do, because these concepts change your view of interpersonal relationships and how to interact with people.
1:00:18These ideas can change not only how you view those relationships and interactions, but also your demeanor. And I love that his coach had noticed how more excited and expressive he has been lately. Well, that's exactly the point that I'm trying to make. It shows up in your body language from verbals to non-verbals. Way to go, Michael. And thank you for writing us. Absolutely. And what I love about it is the ripple effect. Because when you start showing up as jovial, other people's mirror that energy back to you and it makes everyone's life better. If you listen this far, my guess is that's because you want more out of life and finally succeed at love, work, and life.
1:01:03If that's the case, then join us, the Art of Charm team, and other listeners just like you who are experiencing breakthrough conversations, supercharging their confidence, and growing an incredible network inside our world-famous X-Factor Accelerator program. The X-Factor Accelerator is where high-achieving, like-minded people meet, strategize, and unlock their hidden X-Factor to make sure they get the most out of life's opportunities and unlock those doors keeping you from success. We kick off every month with a goal-setting strategy session so you have a personalized plan of attack as well as weekly implementation sessions with opportunities to practice your conversation skills, rapport building, and supercharge your charisma through powerful communication.
1:01:46Imagine what you can accomplish with coaching and mentorship with the Art of Charm. What are you waiting for? Join us today at unlockyourxfactor.com. Before we head out, could you do us and the entire Art of Charm team a huge favor and head on over to Apple Podcasts and rate and review this podcast? It helps others find the show and it makes us more visible. All right. Now we all want you guys to go out there and have an epic week.
1:02:38Cause you had your taste Of black on the yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you
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From the publisher
In today’s episode, we cover how to make friends with AJ, Johnny, and Coach Michael Herold.
It is an unfortunate statistic that we lose friends as we get older, but why does that happen, what can you do to make and maintain friendships that last a lifetime, what are the 3 traits you need to be the friend everyone wants, and proven system can you implement tomorrow to attract dynamic high value people into your life?
What to Listen For
Introduction – 0:00
Why do you have fewer friends today than you did 10 or 20 years ago and what can you do to rebuild friendships you’ve lost?
Make dynamic high value friends that turbocharge your life – 10:05
What can you do to find and build friendships with high value people who share your values and interests?
3 steps to be the rock star of your social circle – 20:38
What 3 traits do you need to master to be the guy (or girl) everyone wants to be around?
How do you pinpoint the valuable social capital you bring to friendships so you can leverage it to accelerate the building of future friendships?
Build rock solid friendships effectively and efficiently – 38:46
How many hours does it take to build friendships that last a lifetime?
What is the most effective AND efficient strategy to funnel the best prospects for friendship into your life so you don’t waste time getting to know people who don’t meet your standards?
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