Managing Up: 10 Conversations with Your Manager | Melody Wilding

26:11And when you do that, you're also able to shape or direct the narrative that you want being told to make sure it's the one you do want being told about you. And so when it comes to your performance review, even giving your manager a one pager to say, hey, I went ahead and I know a lot has happened this year. So I prepared this one pager with some of my key accomplishments and some of the areas I've been working on. I just I wanted to help make your job a little bit easier. Please feel free to work from this. And I'll tell you that most managers will just copy and paste that and put it in to the review.

26:47And at least you have had the chance to to influence what goes into there and not just leave it up to your manager's memory about what's top of mind for them. Right. And contextualize where you feel the growth for yourself has been, because that's often the hardest for the manager to see, especially when it's a big organization and they're managing lots of people. But if you've taken that key piece of insight or feedback and then worked on it for a year, and you can say over the last year, thanks for those three projects because now I feel like I've really grown into a leadership role in managing the team, you're bringing to the surface that internal growth that you're feeling in a meaningful way for your manager to then leverage in the promotion conversation and leverage in the next project conversation.

27:31But the growth often we're feeling it internally. Our managers are not seeing it and then it doesn't get talked about and we can feel stuck in our career. And it's a terrible feeling. And going to the point of, OK, how do I organize the feedback and prioritize it? What I often find the conversation revolves around is, well, we're not doing a great job of taking ownership. And I know ownership's the next conversation because when we're juggling all these different projects and we think we're just helping everyone out, we don't actually own anything. And then we're crushing our visibility and really hindering our manager's ability to actually showcase us, to celebrate us, to elevate us.

28:10Yes. Or we're just feeling frustrated that our manager isn't moving fast enough to change things or that we see so many things that could be better, but no one's doing anything about them. And so managing up is really moving from that passive or reactive stance in your career to being more proactive and shaping what's happening around you. The ownership conversation is a big part of that. And to your point, you don't just want to take ownership of everything and anything that's around you. You have to be thoughtful about that. So in that chapter, there's five different, I call them worthwhile problems that are worth solving.

28:50And it's things like neglected needs. So what is something your manager or leaders keep mentioning in meetings, but it's falling to the bottom of the list or nobody ever seems to get around to? What are feedback patterns? Maybe you're hearing from customers or team members, things that keep coming up again and again that they would like to see as improvements or additions. Upcoming projects. So could you work ahead on something? And then there's also innovation opportunities. Do you see an opportunity to create a new service or a process or whatever it may be? And then there's the bottlenecks, right?

29:29Are there inefficiencies or duplicate work that's happening anywhere where you could make other people's lives easier? They will love you for that. Yeah. One of our clients, Dave, shared a story. He joined a team. And after four or five group meetings of a few people being late because they were doing this stupid task and a few people bitching about how much they hated that task, he recognized that this document uploader software wasn't matching fields properly. And he said, I could probably solve that over a weekend. had a couple extra coffees on a Saturday, knocked it out, presented to a few people who were actively using the uploader and were like, hey, does this work for you?

30:08Iterated on it and then finally showed it to his manager. And his manager's like, oh, my God, we've been bitching about this for years. Literally, he came in the team, made an instant impact over a weekend and then immediately got promoted that next round. And it was the fastest promotion he'd ever received in his career. and he attributed it to listening. You know, so much of this is like, what's in it for me? Okay, this is my career. I got to fight. I got to advocate for myself. And he sat there in those initial meetings and he was new to the teams. He's like, I really got to listen to what's going on.

30:38And that unlocked this opportunity for him that he capitalized on. Adding value, right? That's what, and that comes back to the perceptiveness piece. Like, are you, do you have organizational awareness of what's happening around you to spot those opportunities. And then also the tactfulness, the diplomacy to go after them. That's such a great story. It's just something for analytical folks to think about, to be focusing outward because they spend so much time in their head working on problems. And a lot of times they'll hear things, they take things a bit personally, they read into things because of all that time spent.

31:22in their head when the answers that they're looking for are going to be in the other people. But also, as we just said, you're going to hear it through neglect and feedback, what people are upset about. Those are great opportunities and they're going to present themselves and you have to be able to listen for them. The flip side of the ownership conversation is often the boundaries conversation. So once we've actually started to take ownership of things, well, we actually have to do a great job around those things that we've taken ownership of. And if we're constantly the person collecting everyone else's stuff because we have no boundaries around our work, then we're going to be struggling.

32:00We're going to be falling behind, missing deadlines. And that's not going to look good in this performance review conversation. So for those of us who struggle with personal relationship boundaries, we often see that too. They go hand in hand. How do we approach work boundaries, especially with that managing up conversation? We bring ourselves everywhere, right? And so if you struggle with this in your personal life, especially when authority comes into mix in the workplace, it gets a bit more complicated. And I think that also speaks to the fact that in our personal lives, no may be a complete sentence, right?

32:33We hear that all the time. But in the workplace, not so much. Because just imagine if your manager asks you to do something and you say, no, you know, I don't have bandwidth for that or no, I can't make that work, right? it's not going to go over as well, right? You're going to lose face in that situation. And so how do we do that more tactfully? And before we even get to how you say no, you also have to be assessing what is my pushback power? What's the leverage I have in terms of how frequently and how directly I can say no? Because if you're earlier in your career, you haven't been in an organization a long time.

33:12If you are more junior, if you don't have a very strong relationship with with your boss, if the company is in crisis, all of those sorts of things lead to lower pushback power. Versus if you have higher leverage, right? Your tenure, the organization's pretty stable. There's values around work-life balance. You have a strong understanding relationship with your manager. All of those things, you usually can be much more direct with saying no. Now, in the book, I give a whole sort of menu of ways to do this. But I always recommend that people start by asking questions because we typically fall into one extreme or another in terms of our reaction.

33:54One extreme, because we're so stressed, we may snap back at the person and say, no, I can't believe you're even asking me that. I'm already so overstretched. I can't take on one more thing. You got to find somebody else, right? And we just were very rigid about it and sometimes even aggressive about it. Or then on the other side, we're too passive about it. And we just say, yeah, sure. And sort of figure out how to keep expanding our plate until we burn out. And what we want to find is that assertive middle. And asking questions first before accepting is a great way to put space between the request and your response.

34:33So you buy yourself a little bit of time instead of just the knee-jerk reaction. But it also gives you information to assess, would this actually be a good opportunity for me? Would I be able to sit in on some meetings that give me exposure and visibility to other executives? Or is this going to help me learn some sort of a skill, some sort of technical aspect or even, you know, softer skill that would be valuable to me? And you may not know that from the outside of the request. And it also can help give you information like a piece of something that you could latch on to to justify your no to say, actually, what you're asking for probably lives best or probably would be owned best by the product team, for example.

35:19And so ask questions first. But one of my favorite approaches in that chapter, and this is really good if your pushback power is, you know, medium to lower, it's called the tradeoff approach. and that's all about essentially saying, okay, I hear X is important. We had already discussed Y was a priority. In order to make space for X, what would you like me to slow down on or delegate or what would you like to reprioritize? And so the beauty of that is you're creating the container for the, you're creating the bounds of the decision, right? It's creating an illusion of control. You know, AJ, I know you just had a child, but a lot of people have told me they do this with their kids, where they'll say, rather than saying, you know, you have to wear pants today, right?

36:12They will say, which pants do you want to wear? The polka dot ones or the red ones, right? And so they create the illusion of control, and they're setting up the bounds for the decision. And so you can direct it in that way, but ultimately the decision-making power is back in the other person's hands. And that's where if your own leverage is on the lower side, then that slight deference to the other person's level of power can be helpful. And let's look at why they're coming to you. They're coming to you for a solution. No creates a problem. You've amplified the problem that they had. Now they have to find someone else.

36:50They need to figure out who can do it. If you can be solution oriented and that's the perfect way to do it. Okay, I'm deprioritizing that. We found a solution and you helped us get to the solution. That's the most important thing. And I think so often we aren't taking our managers or managers, managers narrative and needs in mind here. We're like, my plate is full. So I'm going to express just how full my plate is. And I'm going to list the seven other things I'm working on. That manager doesn't care about the seven other things you're working on. They care about the problem. They came to you about the problem and you're not making their life easier.

37:25And, you know, Johnny and I over the years have had to say no to each other. And then, of course, it's like, well, we still got to solve this problem. So how are we going to solve this problem? And well, then we need to deprioritize some other things. And we need to talk about a priority. Like maybe I'm working on the wrong things. Maybe this initiative isn't as important right now. So I hear you, AJ. But, you know, let's reassess then so that we're on the same page moving forward. Because I don't want to be in a situation where I'm saying no to you often. It doesn't feel good for me either. Right.

37:53And that's an important point that I think often gets missed when we feel that pseudo productivity that we talked with Cal Newport about where we're just all so busy and we're all anxious around all the notifications flying around. If you can take a solutions oriented mindset to a lot of these conversations, you're going to find they go a lot smoother and your manager is going to love having these conversations with you because everyone's winning. The triple win is happening when you're solution oriented. The other thing for folks who might be fearful of pushing back just because they don't know what the reaction is going to be to that is to let the manager know, I would love to get this to you by the end of the day.

38:37But here is what is on my plate now. So if you want that by the end of the day, what can I move? What can I take away? That way the manager knows there is excitement for this project. They are interested in doing this. They're not just saying no because they're lazy. They don't want to. They're trying to get out of work. They're trying to pass the buck off to somebody else, but they're already working on something. And that timeline is going to be difficult to me. So you're letting your manager know, but also, hey, there's a lot of enthusiasm here to get this across your desk. But the way my plate is laid out, it's going to be an issue.

39:17So how are we going to work through this? You know, can I get a longer a deadline? Can we move something?

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41:14encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Yeah, in the virtual hybrid environment, it's hard to see what's on people's plates. You know, when we're in an office together and you kind of see someone heads down really working on something or you pop in and there's a spreadsheet open, you're like, oh, I don't want to bother you. I'll back out. But in the virtual environment, there's none of those cues. So we can often feel like, well, my plate's big. I don't know what's on your plate. So please, take a heaping spoon of whatever's on my plate so I can just clear my own.

41:48And that, of course, leads to this lack of boundaries, slowing everyone down. And then you're missing deadlines, which hurts your career. And makes your manager look bad. And so I love that idea, Johnny, of, you know, show how you are for that person. This also goes for feedback, too. If you have to deliver, you know, constructive criticism to your manager, say, like, I really care about us being successful, right? That one of the most important elements of trust is what's called benevolence, which is basically, does that person feel like you're on their side? Does that person feel like you have their best interests at heart?

42:25And that can make a tough conversation much easier because the person knows you're not coming from that defensive or trying to cop out. One of the biggest things that we preach to our clients is the importance of building social capital in their career. And so often we, as we get more skilled and talented and technical, our zone of who we interact with and who we network with internally shrinks. And sometimes it can actually feel like a dead end where you don't feel like there's other opportunities. You don't know where to take your career and you've plateaued. And I hear the frustration in our clients.

43:04Like I haven't talked to anyone in other departments. I don't have any opportunity to connect with them. Like I'm working on this one really technical thing. How am I supposed to talk to marketing? How am I supposed to talk to sales? Like, I don't even know how I would have that conversation. And that's why I love this chapter in the book where you actually give templates of emails and messages to send specifically to break through so we can skip levels and talk to our boss's boss. We can talk to people in other departments and start to warm those connections and build that social capital because so much career movement is happening internally in conversations that you aren't aware of.

43:38They're not being posted online. They're not being posted on LinkedIn about these opportunities. And if you're not in those conversations and you're not connected with the people having those conversations, it can feel like a dead end in your career. And don't make your manager your single point of failure, right? Because your relationship with them may not be that strong despite all your best efforts. that whoever is your leader may change on a dime with the next reorg or a new project you're assigned. And so you need those other allies. You need diversification in terms of where you're able to get information or resources of favor, support from so you're not just dependent on your boss.

44:21Walk us through at least one of those strategies to skip level, because I know that's pretty intimidating. It's like, well, my boss's boss is definitely busy and I don't want to just put myself on their calendar with no reason. So how do I start to initiate those opportunities for myself? Yeah. And coming back to the idea of organizational awareness, you do have to read the environment you're in. This is usually not the first strategy I'll skip to with someone, no pun intended, but because it can be a little more emotionally loaded, especially if you're in an environment that is more traditional or much more hierarchical, you want to tread carefully here.

45:00And so you have to know where you're operating. Some environments, you know, I work with people in startups where skip levels are instituted in the culture. Yeah, they happen all the time. And then ones where someone will say to me, I couldn't imagine a million years doing that, making that request. So you have to know where you're situated at. But in almost all cases, I suggest you need to have the conversation with your manager first. You never want them to feel like you're going above their head, right? And trying to build a relationship with the person above them and cutting them out. And so being able to approach your manager and say something like, you know, I would love to get a broader understanding of what we're working on or these objectives we're working towards.

45:44If you're open to it, I would love to meet with your manager. and if it feels like it might be more palatable to them, you could even suggest, I would love to meet with them together. Could that person come sit in our one-on-one or could we approach that person together? And sometimes that can go over better. But with your skip level, a lot of people are intimidated by that because what do I have to offer this person? Why would this person who has more power and is busier than me, Why would they want to offer me their time? And you have to realize that the further you go up the chain of the command, the more disconnected you become from what's happening on the ground.

46:27And so people at higher levels find it really valuable to talk to people that are closer to the work, closer to the customers. and, you know, there, yes, we talk a lot about toxic leaders and difficult bosses, but there are a lot of good people out there. There are a lot of good leaders and managers, and there's a lot of them that really enjoy being able to mentor and have someone who is interested in their concerns and not just bringing them complaints and problems all day.

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47:56beverage ingredients. Visit good to know facts dot org. So much of this reading the room also happens by you not just focusing on your job, but attending the social events and being someone who's seen outside of just the work environment. And, you know, I talk to clients all the time who are frustrated that I got pulled into this side thing. I'm not getting paid for it. I got to chaperone this person to the offside. I got to drive this person at the airport, that's a huge opportunity to get the read of the room to figure out what's actually happening. And we had a client who was given one of these tasks and he was super frustrated to hear he couldn't just jet off to the airport after the offsite, but he had to chaperone one of the executives.

48:40And funny enough, I gave him just a couple simple questions to ask the executive, warm him up and hear a little bit what's going on with some initiatives that he was interested in as well. And by the end of that ride to the airport, he was given a leadership role on a brand new initiative that no one in his department ever heard of. And it was with a third party vendor that the C-suite executive wanted him to vet. And that never would have happened. And had he gone in with the mindset of like, I don't want to be here. Why am I taking on this task? I'm not saying brown nose and go for every opportunity, but we really have to shift the way we look at some of these other things that are happening, that we're skipping, the events that we're not going to or attending, as those opportunities to read the room, to be visible, and as you share in the book and as we talk about all the time, propinquity is your best friend.

49:27The more people see you, the more familiar your face is, the more likable you become. And if that skip level is seeing you and they're seeing you smiling and enjoying yourself outside of a work environment, attending some of these events, well, they're going to start to like you. And when your name gets brought up, they're going to remember it. Here's the question that I like to ask our clients when I hear this kind of stuff, which is if you had this opportunity to drive this person from the site to the airport 20 years ago, would you have been more excited to have that opportunity 20 years ago?

50:04Or is it now you're not excited about it because of all the technology, which has made you lazy and it's much easier for you to hide now? Where somebody with a out of gumption 20 years ago, I have the most amazing opportunity. I mean, I get to spend 45 minutes with this person in a car ride heading to the airport, which no one likes their car ride to the airport. So everyone's going to want to talk. And this is a great opportunity to get more visibility. And if that answer is yes, well then you made the decision for yourself. And now it's about how are you going to show up for that car ride to the airport exactly you have to increase your surface area of serendipity right because now again especially in this hybrid environment everything is so regimented it's so siloed we don't have those just organic moments as much anymore and so whether it is like going to the off-site or joining a employee resource group where you can interact with people at other levels.

51:09Like just having those opportunities, again, it just increases the chance that something like that will happen, but you have to be open to it. Well, think about it. I mean, if your interaction with this person is just on the Slack channel that the product is being done, you know, what sort of relationship can you build in that Slack channel through just the communication about the project at hand Even if you try to send some memes to warm everybody up, that libel gets you in trouble as well. Where the car ride to the airport, it's not recorded. It's a friendly chat outside the numbers and an opportunity to get to know each other.

51:55You have to look at those opportunities in that manner. And we've all seen the data. We all know that it's these small interactions are what make us all feel better. And if I have a good relationship with the person that we're doing a project for, I'm going to feel much safer in my job rather than staring at the Slack channel and going, wow, that conversation ended a little early. Am I in trouble? Did something just happen? Is somebody upset with me? And then if I have to leave that Slack channel with that thought on Friday, how am I going of feel about jumping back into that on Monday? Oftentimes, especially with our clients who are really introverted, the visibility piece is a little bit lost on them.

52:41So the conversation with your manager and actually bringing that up is so important because oftentimes your introversion, the way your manager is picking up on it, of you not speaking up in Zoom meetings or maybe not going above and beyond in some social situations or being the quiet one in the room and just hoping that I'm nailing the deliverables, they might not even be aware that this is important to you. And how do we actually have that conversation in a meaningful way to raise visibility with our manager in a way that works for both of us? Because we want our manager to feel the visibility more than us peacocking and doing all these silly things in hopes that that turns into the visibility that our manager needs.

53:21I had a client a few weeks ago who her manager had come to her and said, oh, I'm looking for technical leads for this piece of work and was trying to kind of feel out her interest. And she's someone who's a bit more introverted. So because of that, this kind of took her by surprise. And she realized after the fact, oh, because I wasn't prepared for that conversation, I think I came off as hesitant and unsure if I wanted that, but I would love to do this. And so if that's you, if you're someone that struggles being put on the spot with that sort of thing, you can always follow up. It's always okay to follow up.

54:00If you didn't get to say what you wanted to say in the meeting, the moment passed or whatever it is, it's great to loop back and say, hey, I gave more thought to that topic and here's what came up for me. And that actually helps you stand out because no one else does that. Everyone else is on to the next thing. So it really shows you're conscientious that you're dedicated to something. And that's what this client did. She went back to her manager and said, I think it may have come off this way. And her manager said, yeah, it did. I didn't think you were interested. And that led to a great conversation where she was able to say, I am really excited about this.

54:37Now that I've thought about it, I have these specific follow-up questions about moving forward with this. And it turned into a productive conversation. So don't hesitate to follow up is number one. And number two is look for ways that you can build visibility into the process of your communication with your manager so that it's not something you have to just remember to do when you feel bold one day. It's just part of the way you operate. So a very easy way to do this is in your one-on-ones. Make sure that at the beginning of your one-on-ones, you have a section for, you can call it whatever you want, wins, milestones, successes, progress, whatever you want to call it.

55:21But that is your opportunity. Instead of just giving kind of generic status updates, this is where this is at and this is at this stage, talking about things you or your team have achieved, also problems or obstacles you've been able to overcome and how you did that. because sometimes the end outcome is out of your control. But what your manager wants to see, they want visibility into your rationale. How did you think about this? How did you get there? And doing all of that, also, again, another mindset shift here is that visibility is also about giving your manager the information, informing them about what they need to run things up their own chain of command.

56:04because when their skip level can see the team is accomplishing work, well, guess what? That makes your manager look really good. And that's the type of stuff they're measured on. So instead of thinking of it as this is me bragging, it's really informing and giving your manager the data they need to do their job. Two things there. So your client has what we call the enthusiasm gap. And that often happens in person, put on the spot, a little off guard. you can close the enthusiasm gap in that follow-up email. I can't stop thinking about that opportunity on my drive home, and here's what I would do if I was given that chance.

56:43Now, yeah, your manager may in the moment have been like, wow, that was not what I was expecting, but that message is going to go a long way to close that enthusiasm gap and allow them to feel good handing that off to you. Now, the skip level piece, coming back to that, there's something really interesting here. A client of ours was super passionate about AI, And he went to a town hall where his manager's manager mentioned AI as being an initiative, but they hadn't done anything on their team AI related and around the visibility piece. So he was tinkering around with some AI for his own job and came to his boss and said, hey, on the town hall, this was mentioned.

57:19Here's how I'm using it. Here's the end result. You know, I'm curious what your thoughts are. That gave his boss an opportunity to tout AI on the team, made his boss look good. and now he's doing a deep dive across departments to surface how AI is being used across the entire company. And he's leading that from that one conversation. So once we start paying attention in those town halls instead of dozing off or maybe turning off our camera and not paying attention to what's going on in the company, you can start to recognize there's some things that are happening up above, some things that are really important to them.

57:54Maybe haven't made its way down to us, but if I can start doing it and showcase one thing that allows my boss to then go talk about that thing that's being talked at levels above them. Wow, I've increased my boss's visibility, my own visibility. I'm helping everyone. And that's really the triple win in this visibility conversation that everyone is looking for. Sometimes it's right in front of your nose. The last question I have, and we had to skip some conversations, the book is so loaded with tools, but this comes up a lot around quitting when we've had enough. And sometimes it's the wrong culture.

58:33Sometimes it's a bad manager. Sometimes it's just not where you need to be and it's a dead end. And oftentimes the challenge then becomes, well, I don't want to burn this social capital. AJ, Johnny, you talk about social capital all the time. How do I actually leave, but keep these allies, keep these relationships in the future? and I know you have an entire chapter on this conversation because it is such an important one. Some people, as they were reading, as beta readers were going through the book, were like quitting. If I have one foot out the door, why do I care about managing up? And it's just what you said, you know, 70 % of jobs come through your network.

59:10You may also, a high number of people, boomerang back to a company or the same team. So you never know what life holds for you. You wanna try to keep those relationships as solid as possible. Now, when it comes to actually breaking the news, it's really important. Now is not the time to air your grievances. I know that my clients will tell me all the time, I have this sense of like, I want justice, right? I want my boss to know how difficult they were to work for and how this, you know, I didn't get advancement here. And now is not the time for that. Now is the time when you break the news to focus on the future and solutions to say, I, you know, I've had, I've learned so much here, right?

59:58And maybe what you have learned is how to deal with difficult people, but you've still learned a lot. I've learned a lot here. And now I'm really excited for the next step. I would love to talk to you about the handoff. I've already put in place a transition plan or I put together a transition plan and I'd love to focus on that with you. So it's sort of delivering the news tactfully. I've appreciated my time here and let's move forward. And that transition plan piece is important because you were saying before, you know, not giving your manager additional problems, like when it comes to saying no, how some people are resistant to it because now you've created more work for them by saying you can't do something.

1:00:41The same is true with quitting, right? If you're leaving, the first thought in your manager's mind is, oh, no, now what do I do? I have a huge gap on the team. How's this work going to get done? This client is going to be upset. But if in that is part of that conversation, you can say, I've thought through those things. Here's my proposed handoff. And you have to set some boundaries around your participation in that, right? I think some of us who feel bad, feel like we're leaving people on the lurch. Sometimes we overextend during that period. And so you have to think about how am I training the other people around me to be independent once I leave, not dependent on me and following up with me when I'm in my new role.

1:01:27But all of those things go a really long way to making sure you're leaving with goodwill, and not spoiling the relationship at the end because people will remember that. That actually happened to my wife. So she put together a transition plan unasked, just said, I've had enough. It wasn't the right fit. And her boss's boss got wind of the transition plan. The transition of getting her out was smooth sailing. And then that boss left and immediately reached out to her on LinkedIn and said, I'd like to bring you into the new company. and she passed on it wasn't something she's looking for she wants to be a consultant work on her own but it was so interesting to me to watch that all play out that that transition plan in your exit and making that as smooth as possible i know we have a lot of emotion behind it and we're just like screw this place or i didn't like this manager but recognizing that that's the impression you leave and that has a ripple effect and that that manager that you hated is going to be working at other companies it's going to be talking about you and it's going to be talking to recruiters and headhunters about, well, what was it like?

1:02:33Because that's a bullet on your resume. And if you made that transition absolute hell for that manager, it's going to be really hard as you're applying for new roles and trying to figure out what that next step is for your career. If you made it really easy, instead of airing your grievances of all the things you didn't like about the manager, they're going to be singing your praises even though you left. And that's where we need to be in order to really navigate the chutes and ladders of our career. because we're so often told that it's just up and to the right. We just got to keep getting the promotion up and to the right and figure it out.

1:03:05But in this new economy, it is chutes and ladders. It's going to be taking steps back. It's going to be lateral moves. It's going to be maybe jumping to a role that you're overqualified for to get your ground under you in a new company. And because of that, managing all these relationships, it does start with having these tough conversations. And that's why John and I are so thankful you joined us and wrote this book because these conversations are what we're constantly advocating with our clients. And I know our listeners are going to benefit so much from them. Where can they find out more about the book and the work that you do, Melody?

1:03:37You can add to managingup.com. All of the information for the book is there. You can find out more about the rest of my work as well. And come find me on LinkedIn. I love hearing from listeners what they took away, what they're putting into action more importantly. So look me up there. Thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1:04:07I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as we did making it. And now comes the part of the podcast where we showcase one of our X Factor Accelerator members. Take it away, Clint. This is Clint, and I'm in capital sales. I'm a former X Factor student. I joined X Factor because I felt I needed more personal and professional growth. I considered myself successful in my career, but when it came to having conversations with customers, I felt I wasn't building relationships to their full potential. I then started noticing I was having similar shortfalls in personal relationships. Additionally, I felt a confidence void in certain situations, and I was hoping I could improve on that as well.

1:04:48Through the work I did at X Factor and the core confidence course, I was able to improve on both of these areas of my life. And since completing the X Factor, I've transitioned to a new position and the skills learned helped me securing an approximate 30 % increase in pay. So to any guy who considers himself a driven individual but feels he's not quite achieving all he thinks is possible in his current situation, I'd say look hard at joining X Factor. It sure did great things for me. Thank you, Clint. It was a pleasure working with you too, and good luck to you and all your future endeavors. If you've gotten value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review this show.

1:05:33It means the world to us, and it helps others find the show. Before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. Until next week, go out there and make it an epic adventure.

1:06:13Only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you In my life In my life In my life Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You wanna sell those wheels You wanna get a CarMax instant offer So fast Wanna take a sec to think about it Or like a month?

1:06:54So, want to drive? CarMax. Pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply.