Master Elite Human Dynamics: Lessons from Green Beret Nick Lavery

29:40And I know I want to talk about the injury and obviously getting back to walking because a big part of that involved failing and failing amongst your peers, people you already proven yourself to before the injury. So walk us through what happened and then your road back to getting deployed again. This was the third time I was wounded in combat on the same deployment. Prior to this, I had taken some shrapnel to the back of my shoulder. And then in a separate engagement, I took an AK-47 round of the face. And then I took a bunch of machine gun rounds to my legs. And this was the result of an insider attack, meaning a guy that we had been working with turned against us and opened up using a belt fed machine gun into me and my friends from about 25 or so feet away catastrophic incident 12 american casualties three of which were killed me and another eight were wounded the result being obviously the amputation of my leg above the knee i'd spend a year at walter reed learning how to live life as a one-legged guy and learning how to operate a prosthetic the decision for me was made when I was in the intensive care unit at Walter Reed, still fighting for my life.

30:49And, you know, I'm whacked out on ketamine and Dilaudid and all these pain meds. I'm in and out of surgery, sometimes two, three times a day. But I knew I was going to go back to doing what I do. There was no question in my mind about that. The decision was made. I knew what I was going to do. I hadn't a clue as to how, but I knew what I was going to do. And upon my return back to my unit, which at the time was at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. I was offered a full medical military retirement, which I wanted nothing to do with. I found myself in a bit of an administrative street fight with the Army.

31:21Ended up winning that, so I was able to stay on active duty status. I had been working as an instructor during that time. And then I made it known to my leadership that I wanted to give it a shot to get back onto the team. And God bless them because they did give me that opportunity. There had never been an above-the-knee amputee to return back to an ODA and to return back into combat. So it was unprecedented. Like with anything that has never been done before, there's usually a lot of questions and doubt and concern and confusion. I heard the term practicality quite often, like be practical. Expectation management was one of my favorites.

31:59I hear that a lot because no one around me wanted to come out and say, you'll never do this. People wanted to be positive and supportive, But people also wanted to be realistic. And it came from a place of love. And even though there was doubt and I knew that, it came from a place of love. People wanted to protect me from either going back into that type of lifestyle or just protect me from the pending failure that most thought was inevitable that I would try so hard at something and fail at it. And that could send me down this negative kind of spiral. I was able to see that for what it was and kind of set that aside.

32:37I respect your opinion. I appreciate your opinion. But I'm driving on. I know what I need to do here. So my leadership, they did give me the chance to demonstrate my ability to return back to the team. They put me through. It ended up being a 12-week assessment phase of different tests. And they threw the kitchen sink at me, man. I mean, a lot of it was physical, as you could probably imagine. and then it just kind of spun out into a bunch of different aspects of performance. So after 12 weeks where I was doing usually two to four different assessments a week was when I was given the approval to return back to the team.

33:13I went back to the same team I was on when I was wounded. And at this point, they were real far along in their train up. So about six weeks later, we were back in Afghanistan. So obviously there's the physical component, but then there's also the mental where you've basically heard all of these people try to manage your expectations and you've now beat all of their expectations. But there also is a little bit of a selfishness that can come across of like, well, are you going to be able to come back into the team and join the team improving yourself? And I know part of it is now you went from being able to walk, being at your best, learning how to walk again and something that is going to be the first real like moment of test of failure of like, I'm doing this around peers who regard me in a very strong way, positively.

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36:26To turn your expensive wireless bill into actual savings, go to mintmobile.com. That's mintmobile.com. Limited time offer, upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 months required. That's$15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes when the network is busy. Capable device required. Availability speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Yeah, it was hard, man. It was really hard. You know, when I was at Walter Reed and I first got a backup on two legs, the first time I used a prosthetic where I took my first steps for the second time.

37:08A moment that I'll never forget. and you know you're in this clinic and you're walking along these parallel bars that's just something so you can hold on to and your prosthetist is making adjustments he's kind of giving you some like basic coaching and kind of how to make the knee work and stuff and you're kind of i'm just going back and forth just down this one this one strip boom boom boom and my confidence is building and i'm starting to loosen my grip on these bars and i you know i'm feeling like i mean i got this this isn't this isn't that difficult i can do this and then the inevitable happens which is you wipe out and you hit the floor and you're down there and you're looking up you know my father was there my now wife was there my doctors are there my therapist is there and I'm looking up at them kind of like what just happened and my prosthetist was like all right now get up and that was it and getting up from the ground literally is much different with one leg than with two so I'm literally there just like fumbling this thing around I have no idea what I'm doing and eventually I get myself back vertical again.

38:08And I said, what happened, man? Like I had a pretty good stride. Like what I do wrong. And he's like, this exercise only ends one way. You're going to keep going until you hit the ground. This is done by design. And we give you the guidance of stand up. And while these guys are not psychiatrists or psychologists or behavioral health docs or cognitive docs, they're prostatists. In that moment, they enable you, they equip you with both physical capability and mental capability to your point. Not just can you physically get up off the ground because you're going to continue to fall a whole bunch as you try to figure out how to do this thing, but mentally getting back up after getting knocked down, you're going to continue to fail at this.

38:50And they were not about to rob me of that training opportunity. So that was my first segue into that experience of failure in front of people that I want to impress and people who care about me. And very slowly over time, I just became more and more comfortable with failure. Now, when you're at Walter Reed, you're in this bubble. Yeah. You're in a bubble and you're surrounded by people, especially the time that I was there in 2013. I mean, Walter Reed was packed with service members dealing with a variety of injuries. Not only did that give me an amazing gift of perspective because I mean, you look at, I'm looking at quadruple amputees that are getting after it.

39:30I'm looking at guys that have such severe traumatic brain injury that they don't recognize their wife and their kids. When you're surrounded by shit like that daily, this is a paper cut. This becomes nothing. So it put me in this position of, oh, like, let's go, right? Let's go. And so failure at Walter Reed when I was there was very easy to do because I was around a whole bunch of people who were failing at things constantly. Yeah, they're there to support you. you're now joining, rejoining a team that has their own doubts because no one has ever done this before. Well, that's where it got different.

40:07So when I left Walter Reed after a year and I was one of like the guys in the, in the rehab gym, like getting after it. Right. I go back, I go to Walter Reed. I go from being kind of at the top of this mountain in terms of like physicality and capability and this Walter Reed bubble where, where failure is not only extremely common, but it's necessary. And now I'm back at brag. Now I'm back with my teammates. Now I'm back with able-bodied, savage green berets. And I just went from the top to the absolute bottom in terms of capability. And it totally shook me. And I was like, oh man, I cannot be perceived as weak in front of these people.

40:45And these are guys I consider brothers. We've been through a lot together. Guys that I love genuinely and who love me. I cannot let them even get a glimpse of me in a weakened state. I need to earn their trust. I need them to know that I'm capable. So I tried to almost hide the fact that I was an amputee. I'd have like long pants on all the time. I would never take my leg off, my prosthetic off in front of anybody else. The mere image in my mind of people seeing me in that makeup, just I couldn't, I couldn't handle it. Like none of it. I need to be seen like everyone else here. And we're in the gym and we're training.

41:26And I'm doing all the things with my teammates right alongside me. And at one point, it was a long day. We had like two, three training sessions. And my leg is just hammered to shit. And I'm hobbling around. Whenever I needed to take my leg off to kind of let it air out or let it dry off, I would go to like a closed off room, do that, put myself back on, reconfigure, and then go back out to where everyone else was. and one of my teammates came up to me and he's like hey man why don't you just take that thing off and like let it breathe or just like take a minute like you're clearly in pain and you're not doing yourself any favors right now by this and of course i knew my reasoning was i don't want you to see me as a one-legged guy i want you to see me as just another sf guy and he goes you do know we all know you only have one leg like you're not fooling anybody by this you're just you're causing yourself unnecessary damage and you're regressing what you're able to be doing based off of pride and ego he goes you know we all know you only have one leg right and i'm like shit yeah you're kind of right you do and that was like a big spark for me yeah you know because it was just a quick in passing you know he drops that on me a guy that i love and respect I was like you know what you're right so I just became much more cool and comfortable with being vulnerable in front of these guys and then what I noticed the magic happens which often happens on the backside of most fears is when you can get past it that's where the magic sometimes exists is when I would do that I would let people see me for what was really me and you can take this literally or metaphorically because it's true either way it actually began to uplift people around me just that much more right not only is it just that much more obvious that we got a guy with one with one leg over here that's getting after it but he's willing to expose who he is he's being vulnerable in front of us he trusts us and he's not making any excuses about this he's still getting here getting after it i was watching these other guys elevate their game and then that while phenomenal for us collectively for me selfishly i began to thrive off of that and i just kept wanting to double down and double down and double down and seeing that kind of impact on those that I care for was, was pretty powerful, man.

43:41You were stating in the book that you did not want to rejoin your team if you could not be an asset to those guys, right. And added to that team rather than to take away from that team. And there's a self-awareness there that says, listen, guys, I'm not willing to put you in any danger due to what had happened to me if I can't get it together. And I'm only rejoining if I'm going to be not only compass all of the requirements, but to be an asset to this team, an added bonus. And that also allows those around you to relax a little bit as well because now they don't have to worry about like well who's going to talk to nick and let him know he's not cutting it or it's allows everyone to like well let's get you there you have that wherewithal to understand this is that you didn't make it just about yourself and to be selfish in that moment but it was to the collective it's the totality of that team and everything so it's like i think in just stating that allows them to feel good that they can talk to you about what you're going through and how you're going about it and, and, and help you get to being that asset.

44:59That's a great point. And I want to be clear that I didn't have that viewpoint from the beginning. I eventually I did get there when I was in the hospital. And even when I first got back to brag and I was working as an instructor and I was just training like an absolute madman in the book, I actually outlined what a typical 24 hours looked like. I mean, it was just dialed to the minute every gram of protein every calorie every minute sleeping i mean this was all i did it was like nothing else mattered to me it was completely all in and it was it was certainly extreme but when i was operating in that capacity it was almost entirely about me doing what i believed i needed to do about proving to yourself proving it to myself proving myself right proving the naysay is wrong, making the enemy regret not killing me when they had the chance.

45:52It was about getting back to an industry that I love and a lifestyle that I love. It was about me living my purpose forward. And it was around the early portion of this 12-week phase I was telling you about where I was doing these assessments. And I knocked out maybe four or five of them. I had a lot of momentum. I felt really good. I was confident. I'm like, bring it on. There is nothing you can throw at me that I will not be able to figure out. And I wake up in the middle of the night. My wife tells the story better than I do. I mean, I popped up like the exorcist. Okay. It was like 2am, 3am sweat, hot rate, right?

46:27Like I feel like I'm going to die. And it takes you a minute to realize where I am. And Tony, my wife like pops up and she's like, are you okay? What's going on? I'm like, I don't know what's happening. And then it dawns on me exactly what was going on. And it was in that moment, I realized that I was going back to a team. And it scared the hell out of me. For one, it scared the hell out of me. And two, I felt horrible about myself. Just this wave of guilt for having really not thought about them up to this point. I was so obsessed with doing this, this tunnel vision, that I didn't even recognize them.

47:03And this team dynamic that we're talking about felt horrible. Yeah. Didn't sleep the rest of the night. Going to work the next day. And again, I'm working as an instructor and these guys are on the team. So we're in the same vicinity. We see each other all the time. We're in the gym together all the time. And I bomb into their team room and I said, guys, I need five minutes, please. Of course, what's up, man? And I tell them what happened. And I said, man, first off, I apologize that I have yet to not only think about this, but bring this to your attention. Is this in the best interest of the team?

47:34Have you guys discussed this at all? and I mean really discussed it you know we're in the gym yesterday and you're telling me yeah man let's go get after it you got one more rep like you're right there but have you guys really discussed this because I'll tell you right now as bad as I want this as obsessed and driven as I am if you guys tell me that there is no spot for me back on this team I will cut this mission off right now and figure out what the next phase of my life will look like and they said look man we've talked about this probably a dozen times at this point and the answer is we don't know if this is going to work but what we do know is we want to be the ones to decide if it will work or not we if you're able to make it back here we want to see for ourselves if it does work and if it won't work we're going to be the first to tell you that and i'm staring in the faces of eight or nine of the guys that were there men that i love and trust that are all looking at me just totally candid no we will be the first to tell you if this isn't going to work but we want to figure it out for ourselves and i left that discussion with just an entirely another degree of energy like running through my body and not only as to chris's point that i was able to put my trust in them to have that objectivity so you know what i may i may never be able to see this that logically because i'm so emotionally attached to it yeah but you can so you know what i'm going to just focus entirely on execution and i trust you guys to be that that objective observer and i trust your opinion and i respect it so it enabled me to again kind of hone back in on what needed to happen.

49:22But what it also did was rather than me walking into the gym for my third training session of the day, when I'm just beat to shit, I'm exhausted. All of the excuses are sounding the most convincing to do anything other than this. Rather than me thinking about this glorifying moment, returning back to Afghanistan with my arms in the air saying, I'm back, right? Which was a vision that I had playing in my head over and over and over and over again for months rather than thinking about that i was thinking about my teammates five-year-old son i was thinking about my teammates wife and i need to destroy this next training session not so that i can have that glorifying moment but because that kid is depending on me doing this workout right now so it it allowed me to weaponize my love for them that took my output to a whole nother dimension.

50:19So that finish line in your head was focused on getting back to Afghanistan and it was very personal for you. And in that moment, recognizing that, hey, this is the team and this is them being honest with me around the self-awareness that I may be lacking due to my drive and desire personally to get back to that moment. Yeah. And like I said, it kind of became an asset for me on both fronts where while I needed to be aware of my gaps and weaknesses, I had an entire team of dudes that I knew were keeping a close eye on that and would hold me accountable to those things. And as you were saying earlier, you know, wearing pants, avoiding them seeing you, that was acting in an inauthentic way and everyone knew it.

51:09but for you, it was out of pride. And once you actually shifted into just being authentically you around your team members, allowing them to give you the feedback that you needed around how you were progressing and how they were feeling, talk about that moment of actually rejoining the team and getting back and what that meant for you. My last physical assessment that I ended up doing, and again, I didn't know where the end of this road was. They just kept throwing things at me. What ended up being my last physical assessment was one that my unit at the time was third group out of Fort Bragg. We had a lot of casualties.

51:42All third group did was Afghanistan. So the unit had a bunch of guys that were different degrees of banged up, most of which are trying to get back into operational status. So third group developed a physical readiness assessment specifically for wounded guys as a metric to figure out if they could go back to the teams. That's what ended up being the last one for me and it was it was a brutal assessment actually it was the day before my test i walked into the gym to kind of just loosen up get ready for my big day tomorrow and the group sergeant major the group command sergeant major was in the gym him and one of my buddies chuck who took a round through his hand they had just completed taking that assessment and the group csm did it just just to do it alongside one of his one of his guys perfectly able-bodied dude and he absolute stud his name is mark eckard he's recently retired he's an absolute savage and they're both laid out on the turf drenched and i walk in i'm like hey chuck he's like wait what's up man you know he's like can barely breathe he's seeing he's losing peripheral vision hey more than sign major and he's like dude is it true that you're taking this test tomorrow and i said yeah and he's like all right man good luck he's like i just took it and it just kicked my ass but i'll be here for that i said cool next morning show up to the facility and there's probably 75 people in there they basically had to close the facility down because i had this this entourage my entire chain of command all the way up to the group commander command sergeant major was there and everybody else i go through the assessment i get it done and i'm standing there i'm on the verge of passing out aj i can barely see straight okay i'm standing there trying to look tough right like i could do it again if I needed to.

53:32I am on the verge of passing out. And Mark Eckerd, CSM, walks up to me and he goes, you know what, man? You know I took this assessment yesterday. And I said, yeah. And he says, if I wasn't here to witness what you just did with my own two eyes, I would have never believed that that was possible. And I'm a little incoherent at this point. And I'm at the end of 12 weeks and i looked at him and i said man that's great but what the fuck else do i need to do to prove that i can go back and my entire team they all start laughing because i'm talking to the group command sergeant major like you don't talk to that guy like that right that you don't talk to that guy like that but i'm slightly incoherent i just blurt it out and he just smirks you know and he looks over at the group commander and he goes the group commander goes hey csm this is your decision this is a manning decision i trust your call but i don't know how we're going to tell this guy no after what we've just put him through and csm looks looks back at me and says all right man i'll have your orders ready tomorrow and you'll be back on the team next week so next week two short days rolls around and uh i walked back into that team room and you know man we had that moment me and my teammates had that moment you know high fives and hugs and all right man let's let's like let's go to work and then it was very quickly let's go to work yeah it was a very short celebration a couple minutes a couple minutes and six weeks from now we're gonna be in the box like it's game time so it was rewarding something i'm certainly you know proud of but i just didn't have the time and i'm blessed i didn't have the time to kind of bask in the sun of that success for longer than a few minutes because it was like oh shit you worked to get here and now you're here and now it's really time to go to work why do you think so many men crave going back there for you personally what what did it mean going back there because most people listening to this would be like why would you want to go back there where the enemy is shooting off your leg yeah i'll answer for myself, but I know I speak on behalf of a whole bunch of people.

55:45My why I'll say is threefold. It's like three layers to it. On the exterior, it's competitiveness, a need to compete. And that's with 99.9 % of special operators in this country. It's just we love to compete. And as much as we love to win, we hate to lose more. And there is a difference. I get a greater emotional high off of losing than I do winning. So just the fact of me losing in that manner didn't sit well with me. Like I'm going to come back and I'm going to find a way to win. And for those that love to compete, whether you grew up an athlete like myself or not, there is no greater stage for competition than our world.

56:28You're competing with yourself. You're competing with your teammates. You're competing with the adjacent units, right? Green Berets versus Navy SEALs. you're competing with the enemy. It is competition at the highest level. So those of us that enjoy competing, where else are you going to get it like that? The answer is nowhere. So there's competition. A layer deeper than that is a word I've mentioned already. And that's passion. I mean, I just love what I do. I love what I get to do. It's a, it's truly a privilege amongst mathematically just over 1 % of the United States military is a Green Beret.

57:04So that's a privilege that's earned and one that I genuinely love to do. And most of that passion and that love comes from the people I get to work alongside of. Just amazing human beings that you witness with your own two eyes consistently what these people are willing to sacrifice for you and for each other and for a belief in something and for this little experiment known as America. Again, I simply cannot fathom finding anything remotely close to that anywhere else. And then lastly, kind of at the core, I would say is purpose, a sense of purpose, which is a term that I think has several different definitions.

57:43I view purpose as being a part of something bigger than yourself that creates an impact on other people. So it's externally driven. Passion's for me. Purpose is for you. And I am amongst the very few walking this earth that get to live a lifestyle of both passion and purpose professionally. And that's very rare. And when you find it, I think it's something that you owe it to yourself and those that you serve to hang on to it. So that's the why. And in real time, when I was going through it, I didn't have that degree of clarity in my vision. A lot of this is like retrospectively analyzed after asking myself that question so many times.

58:24Man, why? Especially when you're in the face of people you love and respect that are essentially telling you this is impossible. As politely as they can. And they're asking the question. Why haven't you sacrificed enough? Like why go do this to yourself? Why go back? When I first began being asked that question, man, it angered me. I got mad about it. Yeah. You know, how dare you ask me why? it's because this is who i am it's because i was put on this planet to do something i was born to be a warrior and to pledge an allegiance to a society in which i will defend at all costs like how dare you ask me that right i still have that allegiance that's not gone no regardless of what happened anything it's been amplified right so for them to ask you why it's almost like an insult to i took it that way what yeah how you were feeling personally so So there's this personal journey, proving it to yourself, the team, getting back out there.

59:19And now there's this complete shift where you're an inspiration to others. And in this situation, you don't go in saying, hey, I want to come out being an inspiration, certainly not with this injury. How did that feel when you start to realize that your journey has now gone beyond yourself, your family members, your team, and it's actually impacting others who have been wounded, who've gone through hardship in their life? It's an unusual position to be in. It's one that I'm slowly getting better at embracing. But you said it. I didn't come into this industry to inspire people. That had never, ever been a part of my decision-making process.

59:58It was based initially out of anger and rage. And then I began doing it and I began loving doing it. And that was it. I'm just living my life the way that I choose to live it. I got thrusted. I got forced into this kind of inspirational position. And it was when I got back from my first deployment as a one-legged guy, something that had never happened before. And the Army and Special Operations Command wanted to highlight what we did here. Yeah, of course. You know, it's a hell of a story. But I think more so it was about what you're talking about. Let's enable somebody else. It wasn't about me or them trying to give me the spotlight moment or like fame or anything.

1:00:39It was, wow, we did something pretty unique here. Let's not keep this to ourselves. That was the idea. But I began being asked to go to interviews and go talk to senior leaders and speak on behalf of our strength and conditioning program. I became this kind of asset that our leaders would use to demonstrate what is possible with the collective. Because it wasn't just me by myself. Anything further than that. I had hundreds of people that enabled me to do this. And I fought that kicking and screaming. And I learned very quickly when a four-star general asks you to do something, he ain't asking you anything.

1:01:17That's an order. You will show up here and you will do well and you will effectively communicate what you did and what we did to this target audience. I learned that pretty fast. And I fought it. I just wanted to be a team guy, man. I'm an SF guy. I'm on a team. This is my job and this is what I want to do. Please don't treat me any differently. and I realized very quickly that there is power and uniqueness. In fact, that's what special means. People think special forces, many think elite or like the best of the best and while that is true, special just means different. It's synonymous with different.

1:01:54We just do things differently and it is by virtue of just how different we are, that's what makes us elite. So yeah, I am different. mathematically in reality, I'm one of X number. there is value within that. And it took me a minute to see that. But once I did, and I began to see the effect that it was creating initially on just my little small bubble of my teammates, family, friends, I began to see that sphere of influence kind of grow. And the effect is something that I've started to become more and more in love with. Just that feedback of, wow, I've taken things to another level, or thank you so much because I didn't know how to do this one little task and now you've given me some insight and it just kind of slowly builds and it kind of keeps going and you expose yourself a little bit more you let yourself a little get more vulnerable you battle with that question of am I violating this ethos of being a quiet professional by putting this stuff out there and just a lot of internal conflict with am I doing the right thing for the right reasons and I continue to struggle with that to this day if I go do you know, a piece of content, or if I go to a public event and whatever it is, it's like, is this okay?

1:03:08Because I owe so much to this organization, this community, and I want to be representing them accordingly and professionally and with respect. And I've just learned that I know what my values are and I know why I'm doing what I'm doing. And the effect is obvious. And I'm, thanks to the internet and social media, the world's gotten really small. I'm able to see that with my own eyes. I'm able to feel that impact that is created. So it's an unusual place for me to, to be in a position to inspire people, particularly people on the other side of the world. But it's not only is it humbling, but it's also a great honor.

1:03:46And I consider it to just be a responsibility at this point. Yeah. I mean, I, I can't even imagine coming back from that next deployment and now getting all this recognition for all the work you put in when all the training up at that point is not to seek the spotlight it's to be the ultimate team player and that duality of being pulled and told in one direction hey we need you in the spotlight now and all of your training saying no this isn't about the spotlight at all Yeah. And you know what? While uncomfortable and awkward and difficult that was, eventually and relatively early on, I was able to see it as an opportunity to highlight what the people around me did and the role that they played.

1:04:30And this idea of being self-made is ridiculous. And in fact, it's extremely debilitating and limiting. If you think that you're going to go at something literally on your own, you will lose in the grand scheme of things. You may win some battles, but you're going to lose. You're going to lose to the person that has the humility and recognition and self-awareness. They've got weaknesses and gaps, and they go deliberately out and find humans or opportunities that can help make them better and fill those gaps. That's who wins consistently long-term. So even though I would became this dog and pony show limelight target, every time it gave me a chance to say, yeah, I'm the guy up here with the one leg and I'm the guy that got back from the thing and I'm about to go on to the next thing.

1:05:15And yeah, I had to put in a lot of really hard work and make a lot of great sacrifices and discipline and the work ethic and all those things. I had to do that myself. No one could do those things for me. but I would not be standing here in front of you right now with any of these accomplishments had it not been for hundreds of people that you may not be able to see them. They're not literally standing next to me right now, but they are very much standing next to me right now from the people that pulled me off the battlefield when I was originally wounded to the surgeons that kept me alive through some miracle, the PTs at Walter Reed, my docs, my orthos, my dieticians, my strength coaches my teammates my friends my family none of this happens without them and that enables me quite a bit to continue to do things like i'm doing with you right now literally a spotlight is on me as you and i sit here yeah it's it's not me man it's there are hundreds of people sitting in the same exact seat right now you just can't see them i think it speaks to the relationships that you've been able to build and foster and your view on relationships and i know we touched on this a little bit earlier, we talked about your leadership training.

1:06:24Leading is all about influencing. In order to influence people, you need to build trust and you need to establish a relationship. So how do you view relationship building, whether it's on the battlefield, whether it's gaining intelligence, or even now that you're in this role where you have all these opportunities to meet dignitaries and build relationships as a civilian? I would say that there's a handful maybe of core competencies that are not going away in terms of relationship development. And one is, put it bluntly, is you have to give a shit. You have to care, actually care, especially in a small team environment, whether that's athletics, corporate, military, even the untrained human is going to be able to get to know you well enough quickly to realize if this is a facade, if you don't actually care.

1:07:11If when you walk in the office and you say, hey, how you doing? And you're looking at your watch, you're looking at your phone like you're not actually asking me how i am right you're just you're throwing it out there you don't actually care versus coming in and look someone square in the face and sitting down with them and say hey man how was your weekend you know so those like small investments but it has to be backstopped by legitimately caring about the person and about the overall mission and that sounds like it's, it's easy. I would say it is simple, but it's not necessarily easy because we got a million things going on too.

1:07:48We got a million responsibilities. And, you know, my wife is, is just, you know, I forgot to take the trash out last night. I was hearing her this morning. My kids are going crazy and you know, like all these responsibilities, it's, it's hard. It's hard. It's simple, but it's hard, not just as a leader, but as anyone that's trying to establish any kind of relationship with anybody, whether it's an Afghan that I want to take onto a direct action operation or a girl I want to meet in the bar, like you actually have to genuinely care and let them see that you care. Without that, I think you can have all of the persuasion techniques locked down to memory and your pitch be dialed in.

1:08:25But without genuinely caring, I'm not sure any of those things go very far. Well, I want to add to that as well. I mean, just one move of asking somebody how they're doing and picking up your phone and scrolling, no matter what you've built, that one action can totally change that dynamic and influence how that conversation is going to go and how that person is going to feel with you. Because if that, to them, insults them at all, I thought this guy cared, he can't even bother to be present in this conversation, it's over. And to get that opportunity again is slim to none. Yeah. I mean, a lot of work has to be put in to make that happen.

1:09:09Yeah, it's so true. And, you know, I use the term leadership role, but this really applies regardless is you are creating an effect every time you engage with anyone within that team or with anyone that's in your within your target. They're either taking away something that they want to replicate for themselves, or they're taking away something that they never want to do themselves. Either way, like one of the two things is happening. And of course you want to, you want to be batting as close to a thousand as possible, right? You want every single engagement you have, whether it's a 10 second conversation or a three hour meeting for the audience to go away with, wow, I just learned something great that I want to use myself or replicate or build on versus that was horrible.

1:09:58this guy sucks he doesn't care but i just learned what i don't want to do you know and oftentimes i think that that pressure alone can be enough for for some to just want to off-ramp and be you know what like maybe i don't want to do this maybe i don't maybe i just want to be you know just uh in the gray and just do this one thing and i don't want to be in this space because i just can't handle the the stress and pressure of what it takes to to influence consistently and and be a positive source of inspiration and leadership to an individual, it can weigh on you. And of course, no one does bat a thousand, right?

1:10:33We all have our off days. Like there's going to be a time, even if it's invertent, where you do the handshake with the phone and you're just, you're going at a thousand miles an hour. So I think that in itself is also powerful. The goal is to bat a thousand while knowing that that is never going to happen. You're going to make those errors. And if you increase your self-awareness to be able to see when that happens even retrospectively and you can come back and be like dude you own it hey man yeah you know what dude i came in i said what's up i had the phone going that was a dick move i apologize um that's on me i need to be better at that or the feedback comes from one of your teammates one of your colleagues like dude you've been you've been kind of off right out of it not not engaged what's going on well yeah what's going on and be able to respect and appreciate that and then take that hard look under the hood going, what is going on?

1:11:23Because if I'm a train wreck or suboptimal even, what good am I going to be to my team? So it's a balance of internal self-awareness and being very deliberate about that. And then we keep talking humility when you're getting that, whether it's from the lowest ranking person around you or from the highest or from a lateral. We talked about opportunity to learn and get better and humility, whether it's an Afghan or one of my teammates. These principles, I feel like we're almost talking in circles because it keeps coming back, but it's absolutely true. And you can't rush through it. There's no strategy or hack to go beyond authenticity or caring or actually being engaged and present.

1:12:03So at a core level, these are just foundational to building and fostering that relationship, to opening that person up to a real conversation. Some of our clients that we work with, they want to skip the small talk. They want to skip the caring part. They want to get to the meat. They want to get to the deep part. They want to talk about the things that really matter to them. When in actuality, we all want to get there, but we have to establish first, are we playing on the same field? Do you even care? Are you present enough to allow me to get to that place with you? Allow me to get vulnerable in your situation to allow that Afghani to trust his life with you.

1:12:34Right. It's a phased operation. You have to earn the ability to get to those deeper conversations or more impactful transactions or whatever it is. That's earned. I'd say one of the more difficult types of missions that we get to put this back into kind of my world context is, you know, you go in and you, your early phase development of a partnered force. We want, we got six months to work. Let's just say it's a six month rotation. We want to be kicking down doors and shooting bad guys in the face. That's what we want to do. Okay. Or at least get to the point where they're doing that with our capacity.

1:13:11well if you're at that early stage man of that relationship development you can't just jump right to machine gun battles with these guys so you have to earn that you have to build that you have to know going in like here's where i'm at here's the current status here's my mission i'm going to get these guys from here to here at no point are we going to be doing the cool guy jumping out of planes sliding down helicopter ropes and breaching doors with these dudes because it's just so early on in our in the relationship development yeah you have to know that going in the guys coming in behind me to replace us they may get those glorifying moments but we're not right we're planting the seeds we're cultivating we're watering we're building that's my mission right now is this and then the flip side you just talked about is there are times where you you're back home and now someone else has to take that relationship that was blooming to fruition to move the mission forward.

1:14:07And there's going to be that same moment of like, does this guy care? Does this new guy that I got passed to, I know his partner, his team member said, yes, trust him, but I'm not seeing it. It seems like he's checking his watch a lot. It seems like he's checking the door. What's going on? You have to not only have the skill to be able to develop the relationship, to nurture the relationship, but you have to be able to have the skill to take a relationship that's established with the team member and transfer that trust over to you to complete the mission. It's funny because there's an expression that is relationships are non-transferable.

1:14:38And I was told that like early on in my career. And then it was immediately followed by, but that's your job. And it's like, you just said that you can't do it. He's like, right. This is one of my early instructors. It was framed perfectly. It was like, everybody knows relationships are non-transferable. Everyone were all like, yeah, Roger, that makes sense. And he's like, that's exactly the job you guys just got into. Because that's how we operate. It's these short stints and that's exactly what you are going to do. And everyone's going to have a different perspective and a different way that they're seeing things.

1:15:11So I think to go into it expecting this linear progression, and this is just value regardless of what we're talking about, this linear progression that as long as I keep moving across time horizon, I'm going to continue to get better and progress things at a linear pace is ridiculous. Yeah, it's impossible. It's going to go up, down, sideways. you want to be generally trending up and right, but it's going to have some curveballs built within that. And those of us that are a little more experienced in this industry know that going in. So you navigate through it and you just want to keep things trending.

1:15:49And if things take a left or a right, I spent six months working on this and now I'm home and I'm reading the reporting and I'm still kind of keeping an eye on it. Sometimes I just want to lose my mind. Like, what are you doing? What are you guys doing? Things were trending great. And now like you guys are off track. That can be frustrating, certainly as a, as a more junior operator on a team, but as you do it and you get the vantage point from both sides multiple times, it's like, for one, I can't control what they're doing. So let's like employ some stoicism and let's focus on what I actually can't control, which is me.

1:16:23Cause I'm just going to lose my mind. I'm not over there right now working i'm here right now working so there's that and then there's just these guys are professionals and there's there's a reason why they're doing what they're doing and they need to handle the game that they're playing the way that they need to and i need to trust that they're doing it for for the right reason yeah and with the report you're gonna build story in your head you're not fully there it's not a complete download and your own ego is gonna get involved hey i moved the relationship this far like what's going on why are we sideways ways.

1:16:55And I know we talked a little bit about finding your core values. I think that's step one to self-awareness, to be better at building relationships. But step two is being able to take that small talk and start to piece together the puzzle of who this person that I'm sitting across from is. What are their core values? What's motivating them? And how can I start to either meld the two, mine, match their own to show them that there's some trust being built here? Or how can I leverage the fact that these are their core values to take that relationship deeper? Right. And that's going to change. This is a great point because I'm on a six month rotation.

1:17:29I'm working all this stuff. You come in. Well, me and you are different. Do we have aligned values? Probably, but we're different. So you need to do what you just said based on you and that person who's different than me. So there has to be a bit of play that's not only tolerable, but forecasted. This is going to happen because you have to establish that with this individual. And you just go around and around and around. And again, it can get frustrating at times for sure. But the alternative is we go and we don't come back. And I'm not sure how practical that really is for us. In the training component to the active duty component, obviously there's simulation, there's trying to get up to speed, but then you're actually in the theater of war and there are team members looking at you to keep them safe.

1:18:22Can't simulate that in a training environment as best as we can. How do you deal with the internal self-doubt around what you've been trained on, what's happening around you, and move beyond that fear or doubt that you're feeling to actually perform? I'll speak for myself. Out of the gate, first deployment, first-time operational environment, for me, it was more fear-based. I am petrified of letting my teammates down. So while I may not know exactly what to do in this exact situation, I'm going to do something and I'm going to do it like as best as I possibly can at a hundred miles an hour. And these guys are going to, are going to kind of course correct me because you're right.

1:19:08No matter how aggressive you train on something, the game's going to be different than the way you rehearse it. And you can talk contingencies all day long and what ifs and we do, but the game's different. What I began to learn early in my career, which is now something I employ with my guys is the value of planning and preparation and having, having a plan. And there's an expression that we have that no plan survives first contact. And we spent hours, sometimes months planning on something. And then rounds start flying and the plan goes out the window. People start solving small problems in real time, really, really fast based on all the variables.

1:19:45And you could then look at that and say, well, then what's the point of planning at all? I mean, tell me like, we are warriors and we're going to go into a place where people shoot guns at us. You mean to tell me that we're going to spend months planning for something and the second a round goes off, the plan goes out the window, then why bother planning? And it was framed to me in a way that I think was brilliant. It's a plan is a known point to return to so everyone can get back on the same page and continue to progress forward. But in the instance of chaos, there are countless individual problems that have to be assessed and solved in real time.

1:20:21And there's 12 or 15 of you that are all doing that at the same moment. It's impossible to forecast that out. So the plan is a known point to return to. And the training that we do can be viewed as the same way. The training is the foundation. We're not going to be able to train for every variable that could happen in combat. It's impossible. But it's the default you return to in high stress environment. It's the having the firm grasp of the basics because what separates the elite from the average, it's not the new cool way to draw your pistol. It's the ability to do the basics in just more complex environments.

1:21:03The tasks are the same. The execution is the same. It's just how you do them as the environment gets more complicated and complex. That is how you scale from basic to advanced. The actual tasks itself is the same stuff. So you get really, really good at the basics. And then you are trusted to make adjustments off of those as you employ those basics within the complex arena that is combat. You can't handle the complexity without understanding the basics. 100%. and unfortunately a lot of times it's frustrating to train the basics yeah especially if you've been doing it for a while yeah it can almost get to be like oh you know like i've done this so many times you know and then i think that that in itself is a great point is what separates experienced i'll use the term operators because if i talk about myself and and my colleagues experienced an elite it's highly seasoned experienced guys can very easily become frustrated or annoyed by doing this, these very simple tasks, elite members of the same exact community are the ones that recognize what we're talking about and say, this is how we get to be as good as we need to be.

1:22:19And yes, I've done it a hundred percent. I've done this a million times, but that's not on purpose. And it's because as the complexity becomes more and more uncertain in the environments, which we're going to have to do these things, we have to be able to do them that much more automated and that much more seamlessly. That way we can focus on decision-making on all the variables. Yeah, it's so well put. And it's funny to watch in training moments where it's like, why are we training on this? Why are we doing this again? And that frustration comes up. And it's like, because in the moments that really matter, the boardroom, the opportunity to actually share that story where you need to be at your best, influential, persuasive, you're going to have to draw on this basic framework for storytelling that we've practiced in this environment with people who aren't stressing you out with people you already know and have camaraderie with because exactly that there's going to be a bunch of other things putting pressure on you in that moment other eyes people judging people you don't know unfamiliarity with where you are and you're going to be expected to perform at a high level in that moment.

1:23:26Yeah. In that arena. And I mean, and the brain can only process so much information at a given time. It's like, don't quote me on the stats, but it's like 120 Watts or some unit of measure. And through neurology, we've seen that basically anything more than three conversations happening and you're already at overload. Like your brain cannot be processing any more information outside of that. This is just three people talking to you. So imagine in these environments where the stress is going up, the heart rate's going up, the more automated and the cleaner you can do, your foundational framework is going to free up your mental bandwidth to be able to focus on all the other unknowns that are coming at you.

1:24:08Because this essentially happens automatically because you've done it so many times. Your brain gets wired and your brain gets fired. That's it. Under moments of tension and pressure, you're reduced or rise to the level of your training. Well said. We love to ask every guest what makes them extraordinary. What do you think is your X factor? Oh, what is my X factor, man? I'll tell you, I'm not stalling. Maybe I am a little bit. Cause it's a good question. You've thrown some questions at me that I have not talked about before. And I'll be honest with you. This is on no bullshit. I love being caught off God.

1:24:40I've done a lot of podcasts, interviews and stuff. And, and I get it. A lot of people have the same question. This has been a lot of fun, man. I'm not closing too early. This is just an example of one that I've never been asked. What is my X factor? I'll use the term resilience. And that's not intended to be bump a sticker. Resilience is a skill, in my opinion. Resilience is earned and it's learned. It's learned behavior. And I am now able to be appreciative of the way that I grew up and the challenges that I struggled with growing up as a young person, being the new kid in school every year and all the social difficulties that came with that, you know, making friends and losing them and then being bullied and being the new kid year after year after year.

1:25:25Really hard, you know, as a young person. But I can look back now as I've continued to pray and reflect and ask myself some of these similar questions. How did you do that? Or how do you do this? And resilience is one that keeps coming up. And I was blessed to be put in a position of adversity at a very young age, compounded with an amazing support system around me. Those would be my family, my parents, my younger sister. So that constant back and forth, that yin and yang, where it was get your ass kicked, scared, hurt, alone, reinforced by people who love you. And then back, you know, that constant back and forth.

1:26:03And slowly over time, just like building calluses on your hands, lifting weights, you build up calluses in your mind and you just get that much tougher. That's what toughness is. It's mental. Toughness is mental. Mental toughness is resilience. So I was able to begin building that from the age of, I don't know, four. And I point that out because I've yet to meet or know of anyone that's reached a high level of success or at least reached greatness that was able to do that without a degree of resilience. I think it is absolutely essential. and if for whatever reason you've managed to get to wherever you are without that you've set the bar for yourself incredibly low you're not moving fast enough you're not moving with enough aggression you need to be pushed and challenged and fall on your face and put to the test and build up those calluses in your mind and continue to go rep after rep after rep that is a common theme common trend amongst the greatest people that we know of regardless of their industry.

1:27:06And I was able to start earning a lot of those reps and just build on it and build on it and build on it. So when I was met with the greatest adversity that a human being can really be put to, which is death, I had that in my arsenal. I had that in my tool bag. I had to pull that out and wield it. So I'd say just the gift, although very much so earned, the gift of endurance and the gift of grit and the gift of being able to be continuously beat down and lose and have the willingness to get back up, learn from it, and just keep going. Remarkable story of resilience. Thank you for sharing with our audience, as well as getting into the strategies of communication and relationship building.

1:27:57It was a lot of fun for me and Johnny to have you here with us. Where can our audience find about all the great work you do. The one-stop shop would be our website. It's teammachine.com, machine spelled M-C-H-N. It's got links to the socials and the book and a way to get ahold of me personally if anyone's got any questions, things on their mind. Beautiful. That's the spot, man, yeah. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate the time, bro. It's been fun. Thanks, man. Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks, brother.

1:28:31AJ, it's guys like Nick that inspire us all. And you and I have been lucky to interview some of our heroes and these people who have went out of their way and basically escaped the chains of their human capabilities to go extraordinary. And it's so motivating and inspiring to interview folks like that. His story, his mindset, his journey, and the fact that he's so open and willing to share every bit of it is just incredibly motivational for me and for anyone listening. I'm so glad he came in studio to share his story. What an incredible episode. And that brings us to our shout out that goes to Jason, a military bootcamp alumni who introduced us to Nick.

1:29:16Jason's journey from completing bootcamp before his Green Beret mission to successfully navigating the transition back into civilian life has been inspiring. And we are proud to call him a member of the AOC family and close friend. We are hosting an Elite Human Dynamics live intensive in Miami early next year. And if you're interested in bringing your communication and relationship skills to an elite level and succeed like Green Brays on your mission, well, head on over to EliteHumanDynamics.com slash apply to learn more about the program today. Seeds are limited, so apply today at EliteHumanDynamics.com slash apply.

1:29:57Johnny and AJ here. Are you looking to improve your EQ with elite human dynamics? You see, 17 years ago, we decided to curate the latest science and research in human dynamics and deliver it free to you. And we've learned that your ability to stand out, build rapport, and influence the people around you is what gets you noticed, respected, and admired. So whether you're introverted or extroverted, your communication skills can always be improved. If influence and charm come natural for you, great. But for others, it's a skill that can be learned. After coaching over 10 ,000 clients on how to communicate powerfully, we've learned a thing or two about what it actually takes to be influential and persuasive.

1:30:44We've packaged these insights inside our Social Capital Networking Masterclass. And as a thank you for being a podcast listener, we want to give you this masterclass for free. Inside the Social Capital Networking, you'll get three resources that help you build high-value relationships quickly and grow your social capital. To get your hands on this free masterclass and immediately start improving your relationships, go to theartofcharm.com slash capital. Remember, you can learn all the skills and elite communication concepts from the show and more. Start with our Social Capital Networking Masterclass for free at theartacharm.com slash capital, linked in the show notes.

1:31:26All right, before we head out, can you do us a quick favor and rate and review this show on your favorite podcast player? Your support helps us get incredible guests just like Nick. A huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harreld and Eric Montgomery. We hope you have an epic week. Yeah, I remember you. You were my bad boy. You threw your love away Like it was just a toy And you sold the world Your song of a tragedy Cause you had your taste All black on yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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