Master Your Attachment Style and Accelerate Your Success | Dr. Judy Ho

24:03But you, the important thing is that you actually write your hypothesis beforehand, right? So it's like, what do you think is actually going to happen versus what actually happens? And oftentimes people who have avoidant attachment, they feel like, well, they're not going to be able to do it. Or like, well, they'll do it, but they'll disappoint me. Or like, they'll do it, but then now they're going to think that I suck and I'm weak. And so it's important to write those hypotheses ahead of time because our minds are so powerful that later on after something happens, you're going to create the story that's your current ideas.

24:34So you have to write it down ahead of time. Then you do the experiment and then you're like, okay, well, what actually happened? And then you look at the discrepancies and you have to start in a logical way, actually make sense of, oh, okay, what's the new idea then to bring into my existing script? So I guess I asked this person for this. I thought that they were totally going to disappoint me. And you know what? They did a pretty good job. Like, could I have done a better job? Maybe, but they did a pretty good job. They did a good enough job that I feel more comfortable doing it in the future.

25:01You know, with people that you have more intimate relationships with, you can even ask them directly. Like when I asked you for this, what did you think of me? You know, People you trust, your friends, close family, romantic partners. And most of the times you're going to get that feedback of either nothing or like, well, yeah, obviously you need a lot of help. You have a lot on your plate as opposed to you're weak. You're bothering me. Yeah, you're bothering me. Exactly. And so I think those behavioral experiments are so important for the avoidant attached because avoidantly attached people are really pragmatic.

25:33They tend to be really logical and they don't want so much emotional content. And so you got to meet the types where they're at. If you're asking the avoidantly attached to do a ton of really deep emotional work right off the bat, they're going to run away from that. They're going to pick another goal. They're like, this is going to fit me. Yeah, exactly. You know what drains your energy faster than a bad networking event? An overpriced phone bill. The big wireless companies love taking your money. They count on you not switching. Right now, Mint Mobile is running their best deal of the year. 50 % off all unlimited plans.

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28:55They care about you. They see you in such high regard because of all of your achievements that they're excited to be a part of your journey. Exactly. And I think that that's something that is a huge takeaway for the avoidantly attached. Because like you said, there's all of these different things, ideas that you've put in your head that you're doing it better alone. And because 95 % of the time you're doing it alone, you're reinforcing that yourself. But once you actually let other people in, you realize, like you said, your goals are much better achieved with people supporting you. and you're actually giving them a gift.

29:27Oftentimes they like want to and they feel privileged that you asked. Right, to be a part of it. Yeah, and so that's why these feedback conversations after the fact are so important. It's like the people that you do trust that are kind of in your inner circle. Like how did you feel doing this? Like you need that feedback. You need to remember that for the next time and you need to write it down so you don't forget or create a different narrative that fits your existing ideas. Absolutely. I know for myself growing up, I was in a household where my emotions were often dismissed. So expressing emotions, especially quote unquote negative emotions, was just not seen as comfortable for me even after growing up and becoming an adult.

30:06And in those relationships, your partner can sense that you're feeling difficult emotions. You're not hiding it. You're not getting anything under your partner's nose. But with that, they feel disconnected from you because you're not showing your true self. Exactly. And I really that really resonates with me as well, because, you know, growing up in a more traditional Chinese household, stoicism is very valued. And so when you have negative emotions, they are dismissed. It's like, well, don't don't complain about it. Don't talk about it. Right. And that was my parents way of cheering me up, though.

30:37Right. Whenever I had a hard time, when I had a difficult time. And so, again, I recognize that my parents were only using the scripts that they grew up with and they were actually trying to help. But it definitely made me feel like, oh, we just don't talk about negative emotions. and I remember that earlier in my life I was pretty uncomfortable when people became more emotional around me and when they were expressing negative emotion I was like oh my god like it would make me super uncomfortable I would either try to like make an excuse to get out of there or it would just make me even more stoic which would drive the person crazy right because they're like are you even hearing me I'm distressed and I'm like and I'm like everything's fine they're like, no, it's not, you know?

31:17And so it actually fires them up more, which obviously achieves the opposite effect. And so it does take some time, like you said, like to try to show up authentically to recognize that negative emotions serve a function. So again, speaking to the more logical and pragmatic mind of my brain, I had to tell myself, you know what? All emotions exist for a reason. They're evolutionarily adaptive. If you didn't have negative emotions, how would you know something was wrong? Like negative emotions are what propels fight or flight when you actually need it. Right. And so the negative emotion, if we can just develop an attitude of curiosity towards it, like, oh, well, I'm feeling this.

31:54Why am I feeling this? What is it trying to tell me about my life? Maybe there's something that I need to address. If you can take that attitude of curiosity and approach it as an intellectual exercise, maybe that's a little bit easier of a bridge for people who tend to be more avoidantly attached with their emotions. And so it's interesting now, like on the other side, since I've done so much self-development work on my own, that now I'm like, my feelings matter. If I feel this way today, it's okay. And it's funny because I feel like it took a lot of time for me to get to that place where that's more comfortable for me.

32:27But even as I'm saying it now, sometimes I'm like, no, too much emotion. There's still an old script that sometimes tries to interfere with the newer development. So I think that's an important point in all of this, that it's not this complete erase of those memories and erase the script. It's always going to be there. Just how are you reacting to it? Are you able to recognize it? And are you able to move against it, away from it, or towards the things that really matter to you in those moments? And now you know in the loving, caring relationship, well, your partner wants to see all of the emotions from you.

32:59They want to see the positive and the negative emotions. They want to see the excitement, and they want to know when your heart is broken because that's what real support is. I know in my situation with my family, a lot of their view on negative emotions where they were contagious. So like get that negativity away from me or even worse, like, hey, you made someone at the family gathering feel this way because you were acting this way. So act in a different way. Don't show that negative emotion because you hurt Aunt Jerry. And it's like, well, I didn't mean to hurt Aunt Jerry. I was just trying to express myself.

33:30So in a lot of ways, I walled off all of those emotions in relationships. And I went through a period of grief and losing my dad. And, you know, it actually disconnected me from my friends because they had no idea how to even communicate with me because I just wasn't being open and honest about the grief I was feeling. And I just didn't want to answer their call. I didn't want to talk to them. I didn't want to dump those emotions on them. Right, yeah. And I think that that is so true that, again, as the proverbial lone wolf, you do try to go through all the most challenging times of your life on your own, but that can be so hard.

34:05And it becomes like the self-perpetuating cycle too. And then again, that reinforces these ideas like, well people can't be counted on it's like well but you haven't asked for help either you know yeah um and yeah this this is huge that most people would avoid an attachment they're always afraid of being a burden to others and like you said there's some earlier experiences that may have caused that and so as an adult when those ideas still come up like you said it's not black or white it's not like okay once the healing work is done like it's never going to come up again but that doesn't mean that you haven't gotten to the other side it's more just about oh now i recognize what it is and so can i do something different and what you were alluding to earlier about like living the values-based lifestyle.

34:41You know, like, okay, well, I am in distress right now. It's a little chaotic, but what can I still do to like drive towards the things that mean the most to me? So that's a great turn to say, okay, what are my top three values today? And what's one small thing I can do to move each of those things forward and just feel like I'm still living that truth? You know, that's really important. Even being an avoidantly attached person, wanting every day to be super productive and super goal-oriented and then beating yourself up when you're not having that day. Well, you know what? Some days aren't going to be like that for a variety of reasons, but are you still living a values-based life?

35:17And if you are, then you can go to sleep by feeling good about yourself. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's really the power in values over goals. Goals are important, but if you orient your entire life around goals, there are going to be periods where you aren't reaching them, where you're falling further away from them, where for completely outside of your control circumstances, you just can't achieve them. But values are a way of being that you can incorporate into your daily life, whether or not you're feeling a negative emotion, a positive emotion, you've had a distressful experience at work, you've had a coworker who put something on you that you didn't deserve.

35:49You can still live in a value-based life, even if your goal is to be promoted. Exactly. And I think that that's why it's so important to know that truly mindful living, it actually is going to move the needle forward more in the long run, even if one or two days you just have blips where you're like, I'm not doing as much, you know? And it is about like, where am I today? And how am I feeling? And what's going on? And sometimes there's things out of our control. People with avoiding attachment, especially, they want to try to control everything. It's like, well, I'm going to do everything myself.

36:22Some things are out of your hands, and you're just going to have to let it go. And that's another important lesson of, you know, how do we actually achieve that more balanced self-concept of, yes, my achievements are so important. I own that. That's a big part of my identity. But there's also times where being interdependent with somebody else, that should be just as important. Or if I'm not able to move towards my goals as quickly as I can, I still feel good about myself at the end of the day. And I think the secret is mindfulness and values-based life. Yeah. I think in my own personal journey, one of the unlocks for me were helping other people reach their goals.

36:58And the feeling that that gave me around fulfillment and joy in my own life, recognizing that, well, if I let other people in on my goals as the lone wolf, they can feel that as well. So really recognizing those behaviors and actions in others being self-reflective and saying, oh, okay, that's the gift that I'm giving to these people that I share my goals with, that I ask for that support from. Right, exactly. Because at the end of the day, we all want to be connected with other people. We all want to say we made a positive impact in someone else's life. And yeah, it's an interesting challenge of, hey, why are you taking that away from people who care about you?

37:31They actually want to be part of your journey and they want to see you on the other side. I think part of the problem that I see on social media around the labeling of attachment is the negative feelings that it fosters, the beating up of yourself, the judgment, the critique. And I think a big part of this is developing self-compassion. recognizing that, hey, this is a pattern that, again, was out of your control based on the way you were raised, environment, genetics, all the things that go into that attachment style, understanding that there's going to be some work if you want to move towards secured, but at the same time recognizing that, hey, there were some benefits to having this attachment and allowed me to reach some goals, some success in my life.

38:09It hasn't been all negative. So what are some ways that we can develop self-compassion towards our current attachment? Yeah, this is such a huge, I'm so glad that you brought that up. up. It's so true. We have such difficulty being self-compassionate. And oftentimes, you know that you have problems with self-compassion if you're pretty critical of other people, like because the rules come from somewhere. Like, so if you're upset with people for things, it's like actually there's a part of you that's upset with yourself, you know. And having compassion is so important. I think that one thing is moving past anger.

38:43I think that sometimes people will have a lot of anger either toward themselves for having an insecure attachment style now and like maybe the negative impacts it's had or like anger toward their parents. Like, I'm so mad at you because you made me do this or like you made me this way. And I get that. That's oftentimes the first step. You have to have something to direct your upset at, but eventually you have to move past that and say, how can I honor myself and value myself just as I am? Because all human beings have worth regardless of our mistakes, regardless of what we've done, regardless of the mistakes in the past.

39:17And until you can achieve that self-compassion, you really can't move forward in a positive way because there's always going to be something that gets you stuck or sabotages your best efforts. So one of the things that I love the most about, you know, self-compassionate work is really just about like sitting with your inner child. So your inner child is that metaphorical little you that still lives in all of us. And you've probably seen your inner child come out when you're stressed and you just want to play video games forever or like do something that like makes you happy from childhood. You're like, I don't care about any of my responsibilities.

39:50Or have a tantrum, kick, scream, and cry. Or have a tantrum, yeah. Exactly. And like, and if you can have compassion towards your inner child, then it's going to heal your adult self and give your adult self some compassion too. Oftentimes, I think as an adult, we push our inner child aside because we're like, no, like that's the tantrum-y, like irresponsible little child. I don't want to recognize it. But if you don't, you're never going to have compassion for yourself. So one exercise I love to do is a visualization exercise where you essentially picture your inner child at whatever age you want to.

40:22It could be five, it could be three, it could be ten. Maybe going through a difficult time. Maybe you can just reflect upon, like, what was a difficult moment during my elementary years or junior high years? And then just, you know, really bring that picture of your inner child to life as much as possible. And then imagine your adult self meeting your inner child. and essentially asking your inner child, what do you need? Like just that simple question, what do you need? And then just listening and seeing what your inner child's telling you. Maybe your inner child is saying like, I just need a hug or like, I just needed to be told that I'm okay, even if I didn't get that A, you know, but whatever the case is, you know, really recognize that that's something that your inner child is still carrying with you and is probably affecting you to this day.

41:10And then thinking about in the next 24 hours, what's one small thing I can do to like meet this need of my inner child? So if they're saying like, I need to be told that I'm okay, even if I'm not achieving, it's like, okay, well, as the adult self, I have a lot more resources. I have a lot more wherewithal, control over my life. Like what is something that I can do to nurture that part of myself? And if you do this exercise even weekly, you're going to start to notice that you have so much more compassion for yourself because you're basically saying, hey, you're my inner child. you're allowed to come and express your emotions and your needs to me at any time.

41:42My adult self will help take care of it. And it gives you that bond of it's okay. Even if you're telling me something that like my adult self is saying, whoa, that sounds really childish or like really unreasonable. But the more that you actually dialogue with your inner child, the more you'll realize this is not unreasonable. This is something that a human being needs. And I can give that to my own self. And that is compassion. That is a form of self-compassion that is very real and that you can take with you. Yeah, it's recognizing that that part of yourself that's still present from childhood is creating these patterns that are coming up in relationships, communication, the way you see the world, and recognizing that, hey, that operating system in that moment, I understand where it comes from.

42:25I understand how it gave you safety and security and love in that situation. It doesn't work in this moment, and I still care and love you. I think that you're capable, even if you're feeling this way, even if that insecurity is at its peak. Exactly. And I think that that is so important because our inner child is still operating in our adult selves like all the time, you know, and especially when we're stressed. And so if you're able to do this type of exercise, especially when you're stressed, you're basically saying, Hey, it's okay. And it's kind of like every child that you've ever been around, they're like having a tantrum, but like you basically say, Hey, I'm here or like, okay, let's do this, they calm down, right?

43:05It's like they only get louder if they don't feel like they're being heard. So if you can say, hey, I hear you, that might even be enough. If you're like, hey, I don't have any great ideas of how I'm going to help you today, but at least I hear you and I accept what you're saying, that might be enough to get you through that next challenge. Yeah. And one of the visualizations that we do in our program is in that moment where you're feeling that stress and that ultimate insecurity taken to its conclusion that maybe you just want to be loved, or maybe you feel that person hates you, or you're never enough, or you're a complete failure.

43:37And then picturing yourself as a child saying that out loud to you. And how would you respond? Would you agree and say, yeah, you're a complete failure and no one loves you to you as a child? No, you would give that child a hug. You would give that child compassion in that moment if they were saying it. But somehow when we're saying it as an adult, we give it more weight, we give it more credence, we believe it. Yeah, that's such a great point. And like you said, you know, when you really turn around and you say, would you really chastise that child that way? This like crying child at the age of five and say, no, it's not okay to feel that way.

44:08No, you would, like you said, give them a hug, give them encouragement. But as an adult, we feel like we're supposed to have it all together. And like, we can't express those feelings anymore. But that child essentially shows you like one of the purest forms of being human, because it's before there was all these social constructs. It was before they thought that there were certain ways they had to act. And so it's showing you like the purest form of here's what I need to self-actualize. Here's what I need to feel safe so I can actually do the things that are meaningful to me. And it might be a little easier when you picture that to say, yes, I accept that and I can give that to you versus our adult self.

44:42But eventually that's the connection. The connection is that you're giving that to your adult self. You're giving them that permission. Now with attachment styles and relationships in general, there's typically another person involved in the relationship. And I know one of the questions that we hear from our clients once they start working on their attachment style is they become really in tune with their partner's attachment style. And sometimes it can actually drive them crazy. It can feel very frustrating that you're doing the work on yourself, you're overcoming these patterns, and maybe your partner is not moving along, and maybe your partner doesn't want to deal with these patterns.

45:15So what is your advice in that situation when you feel that maybe the relationship and the the work you've done on yourself isn't being met and your needs aren't being met in this relationship. Yeah, it can be really frustrating because, you know, oftentimes one partner will be ahead of the other partner in self-development. And it doesn't mean that that relationship is not going to work. But you also have to show up authentically and let your partner know what's bothering you. And so, again, we've been talking a lot about avoidant attachment because I know it speaks a lot to your audience. And, you know, the avoidantly attached person might just be like starting to disassociate from them, Like just start to go away and be like, well, this might not work for me anymore.

45:52Like you have to challenge yourself to say, no, like this is a time to communicate it and say, look, we don't have to have the same journey, but I've been frustrated because I feel like I'm working so hard on having better communication with you, but I don't really feel like it's going both ways. So like, what do you think about that? And what do you think is a way that we can improve our relationship? Put it in the other person's court after communicating, because you don't want them to feel like they're being accused, right? So you don't want to say, well, I think that you don't want to work on yourself because you don't care about self-development.

46:21No, you should just talk about what you're observing, right? Stick to things that you can actually look at. It's like a research study. Like just what can you observe from the outside? But don't make any presumptions about their intentions. And then put the ball in their court. Like what do you think and how do you think we can improve? Because I want to be more connected to you. I want us to feel happier in this relationship. And so I think that that's really the first step. It's not really about like throwing up your hands and giving up on it, but just letting them know like this doesn't feel good to me.

46:51So what can we do to like meet this need together? Because this relationship is important to me. It's really two patterns combining into one in a relationship. And depending on how long you've been in that relationship together, well, those patterns become quite comfortable for both of you, how you're showing up. And now you're doing all this work. You're breaking your pattern in the relationship. Well, it is going to cause discomfort in your partner. They're not going to know necessarily how to show up now because it's different than how you've showed up in the past in arguments and conflicts and in distress.

47:19Exactly. I mean, it might get worse before it gets better. It almost always does with any kind of change, whether it's parenting or relationships or even like corporate structures. You know, something that we talk about a lot is like family systems theory, which is like when somebody in the family system all of a sudden doesn't do what they used to do. Yeah. For better or for worse, like that throws the system into chaos. It's like, oh, no, you were supposed to be the black sheep of the family. now you're getting your shit together and like you're doing all like that freaks people out, you know?

47:47So you have to also give your partner a little grace that, oh wait, like they used to communicate this other way. Now they're doing this. What does that mean for me? Like, how does that mean about my communication with them? And so it does take time. It does take effort, but you can always restructure the system for the better, whether it's a partnership, a family, or like a work team. Let's talk about that family environment, because I know with a lot of this work outside of the anger and resentment we talked about. But with family, we might just want to start over and create fresh communication now that we've recognized this pattern.

48:19And maybe in the past, in that situation and family conflict, you would just become avoidant and not answer their call or not agree to go to the family trip. But now you want to be a bigger part of the family system. How do you make change in that environment where it's now a dynamic that really has been well-worn, probably lasted longer than a lot of our romantic and personal relationships? Yeah. So I think that the first key is really just to start practicing active listening as a family. So this is something that we do a lot of in therapy. We talk about a lot in therapy, but I feel like it just has so many different applications so we can really listen to understand.

48:53Oftentimes when we're talking to other people, even in a social environment, we're like thinking about what we're going to say next. Like you're saying something to me and I'm like, oh, I really want to say this other thing. But then you start missing part of the actual conversation and what they're really trying to communicate. it's kind of about trusting yourself that you know that you're going to come up with the next logical thing to say or the next interesting or helpful thing to say but that's easier said than done so active listening has a very easy script essentially somebody else is going to communicate for a little bit you're going to try to listen and be as attentive as possible when they're done the thing that you're going to say is just trying to recap what they said and it can be in your own words you don't have to use their words right it's just kind of summarizing and paraphrasing and then that gives the other person a chance to say, yeah, that's what I was saying.

49:39Or, well, actually you missed this one piece. Or like, no, that was not right, but let me try again. But it's so helpful because then you're not carrying with the miscommunication of what you heard and then that fueling what you say next, right? So even just that piece, it slows down the communication and makes sure that it's actually accurate what's being communicated. And then the second step is just affirming something about what you heard. So once the person says, okay, that's pretty much what I said, like, that sounds good. The next thing you can say is, okay, so based on what you said, like, this was interesting to me, or like, I totally resonate with this and understand it.

50:17Or like, even though I don't agree, I can empathize with how you're feeling, right? It's not really about, oh, now we all agree with each other. But it's just about, Is there something that you can acknowledge in what they said that resonates with you, that you have more questions about, that makes sense? That's all we're asking. We're not saying you have to agree on everything. But that is just a huge key to start breaking down any old patterns that aren't working in your family system and starting to communicate in a better way that makes everybody feel heard. I feel in a lot of ways with that anger and resentment bubbling up, there can be no room for forgiveness.

50:55and might even want to cut your family off and completely disassociate from your family. How can we practice forgiveness in these situations? Again, hearkening back to what we said earlier, that our parents were trying the best they could in a situation that they were in, and they did care and love for us, even if they're bringing past patterns and their own attachment theory into the way they're raising us. Yeah, definitely. I think that anger can be such a powerful emotion. It's such a strong cover for more vulnerable emotions that oftentimes we just want to live in it forever because it sometimes feels more comfortable to be angry than to be sad or to be disappointed or to be heartbroken.

51:30Right. And so kind of recognizing that anger actually doesn't really help you like anger really manifests in such terrible emotional and physical ways, especially if it's chronic. So like, of course you should let yourself be angry, but like let yourself also move past it after that initial phase and basically say, okay, I don't have to be so in love with my mom and dad now. Like all of a sudden I'm like pretending that everything's fine. That's not what we're talking about, but it's more about, can we go back and just recognize like one thing that they gave me today that like is a positive, you know?

52:04I mean, that's a, that's a start of just one little, even as a little thing, even if it's like, well, like, because they were so anxious, like, I guess like it made me more aware of like potential dangers, even if it's sometimes overboard, but like it has helped me in some ways to be more cautious maybe when I should, right? It can be any little thing. And then I think it's really just also about recognizing that you can do this in doses. It doesn't mean that you now all of a sudden want to like spend a whole weekend with your parents, but it could be like, you know what? Like, let's just start by saying like, let's go get lunch and let's keep it low key.

52:40Let's like have an end time. Cause I don't know if I want to hang out with them for three hours, but it's just about letting yourself do this in the doses that feel comfortable to you. And you should throw out whatever presuppositions you have about what you're supposed to do as a good child or like how you're supposed to heal. It's like, if you don't want to talk to them after the lunch for three weeks, like it's okay too. You know, like you just have to meet yourself where it's at. But I think that it's always important to kind of think about, we only have this one life. We only have limited time.

53:10Like is your true goal never to speak to your parents again and never have a relationship? And if it's not like, let's meet them where they're at and let's value and cherish the good of the relationship. Yeah. It could definitely be a challenge. And of course we want it to happen fast and quickly, but it doesn't always work that way in a family dynamic and a family system. Yeah. And I think that a big part of it is also forgiving yourself. Sometimes that anger, it's really hiding that there's parts of yourself that you resent. Because sometimes when we resent what our parents have taught us, the biggest realization is that maybe some of those lessons still seeped into how you work, how we are.

53:49Yeah. And then so like, there's a little bit of like self hatred in there that maybe we need to resolve too. And so until you can kind of see the other side of, okay, there's still some good that came out of this. You have to recognize it in yourself as well as, you know, other people for that work to be complete. Going back to the earlier part around anxious attachment and in career. So I know for a lot of our clients, they don't want to change their anxious attachment in their career. And oftentimes it leads to difficult relationship building at the career level. And it leads to you feeling that you're only as good as your last achievement when in actuality, your network can create more achievement and more opportunity in your career.

54:30So what is your advice when it comes to breaking free of that anxious attachment in our career? Yeah, I think it can be so easy to say, you know what, like I am responsible solely for what I'm doing and I have to keep achieving and I can't let anyone stop me. So then instead of seeing other people as resources and support, you see them as enemies. You see them as competition. You see them as barriers to your success. And so it's not going to be something that you can do overnight, but it is something where you start to value other people for the areas that they're good at. One of the things that has helped me the most is really connecting with people who have like slightly different expertises than me, but there's some overlap because I know that I'm learning something from them.

55:15And then maybe that's the first step of like, oh, I see the value in what you're bringing. And then slowly understanding that really it's these collective minds that allows like bigger opportunities. I've always found that when I start talking to somebody about an idea, it sparks other ideas. Like there's only so much your one brain can do. But maybe the little space to like start the work is to find other people whose expertises are like slightly different from yours, but there's some overlap in interest or skill set so that there's a mutual respect of, well, I don't know as much about this area, so that's something that you can tell me about.

55:49It's really interesting. There was actually a really cool research study that was done with elementary students and it was helping them to foster collaboration. And what they did was they would break up a project into four pieces. It was like a jigsaw. So essentially you really could not finish the project unless you listen to the other person. So it's almost like everybody has like one part of a short story, but then you needed to make a summary of that story. So then like one person has like the first page, a second person, a second page. So you literally remove them from being able to do the work completely by themselves.

56:20And you have to listen to the person recap page two for you or else you won't have the whole story. So it's almost like that kind of idea when we're thinking about how to work in teams and how to help people with avoidant attachment, start to rely on others. It's like, let's bring in somebody who has something that you don't. And like the in for you is I get to learn something that helps me towards my goals. But you start to recognize the value of other people when you start working in this way. Yeah. And that reciprocity of delegation, right? Right. Recognizing that starting small with delegating tasks and then also supporting others and taking on some tasks that maybe aren't directly your goals and oriented around what you want to achieve can start to break through that piece around vulnerability and starting to trust others in your work.

57:06Yeah. And then I think once you start to have more positive experiences, it's going to start bringing you more towards like a balance, more secure attachment when you say, oh, you know what? But maybe there are some things that I should be doing because I really am the best at them. I've been working on it. But there are other people who can help with these other pieces. And in turn, I can help them too. And that'll help both of our achievements. Yeah. I know in my own experience, I was in a lot of ways just starved for appreciation. And I found it only when I achieved big lofty goals like getting into college and getting into graduate school.

57:38But outside of that, in the day-to-day where I really needed some appreciation and pep talk, I wasn't getting it from my family structure. And then it became very difficult for me as I moved into leadership role to then appreciate those around me because I'm like, well, it's not a big goal. Like we have bigger goals that we have to focus on. And I started just with our team, just focusing on appreciating more frequently and seeing how powerful that was. And now I incorporate that with all of our clients that work with us who have this tendency to just start recognizing the talents, the gifts that other people around you have and verbalizing it, share that appreciation, see their response, see how it impacts their work.

58:16And you're going to find by leading that oftentimes you'll hear that appreciation back. Exactly. I think when you're in a leadership role, so much of it is like an opportunity to also help heal insecure attachment in your teammates and like employees and people that you're supervising. But it's so interesting when you said that, you know, as an avoidantly attached person, like, because you weren't getting as much of that. Like it also didn't really necessarily occur to you to do that for others like automatically until you started saying, hey, you know what, this could actually be of such value.

58:47And it's so important that we all recognize that like obviously we're all coming from our own experiences and sort of how we operate and then learning how important and how much like just one sentence of appreciation goes like just goes such a long way for people to invest more, to feel good about themselves, and then to like actually start to spark ideas of self-initiation of like, oh, what can I do next to like get the next accolade? Like I want to have some more positive reinforcement or like, I want to help this person. Like they've helped me. They made me feel good about myself. Like, so I now want to go to bat for them, you know?

59:20So even as a leader or a manager, I think that it's important to recognize that, that no matter what attachment style you're working with, most people want to be acknowledged and appreciated in different ways. It's kind of like a love language that I think is relatively universal. Absolutely. The validation piece and just being fully seen in the work that you're doing. Because I know for a lot of us, especially at this stage in our career, those goals are big and they take a long time to be reached at a company level. And if we're not appreciating all the steps along the way, it can feel very daunting, demotivating.

59:55It can work against our productivity and our mental health in a work environment. Exactly. And I think sometimes we think, well, no, like we don't want to, you know, recognize the small things because then they might not keep their eye on the prize. But actually, it helps people to keep their eye on the prize to say, I do recognize what you did today. And I know that there's still a lot before we get to that big goal. But what you did today was helpful. It was instrumental. It helped move the needle. Now, I have to ask what the listeners are probably thinking at this point. Is the goal secure attachment?

1:00:26If I've recognized that I'm anxious or avoidant, should I be working really hard and reading your book to become secure attachment? Or can I live with my current attachment and improve on the way that I'm interacting in relationships? Yeah, that's an awesome question. I mean, I think that there's obviously a lot to take away from the secure attachment style. And I think that probably for most people, the goal is to become more securely attached. But I also think that in the name of self-compassion, like we've been talking about throughout our time together, it's also about just recognizing and honoring where you are.

1:00:57And if your avoidant attachment just keeps showing up, it's okay. Like there's nothing wrong with that either. It's like, okay, well, how can I harness the strengths of it and then try not to let the things that it might cause problems with like get the best of me. And that's really all that it is. I mean, I actually think that, you know, every single attachment style, even the insecure ones come with pros. And so it's really just about leveraging the pros. You know, we, We spent less time talking about anxious attachment, but anxious attachment, oftentimes they're people pleasers. They're always wanting to bend over backwards to help other people.

1:01:32So are we saying throw that out with the bathwater? No, we're just saying, hey, you know what? Like think about yourself sometimes though too. And also this is not the only way to get reinforcement from other people. So like learn to say no a little bit, but obviously you love helping other people. It makes you feel good. We're not saying take that completely away. And so it's not about changing yourself so much that now you feel like you're not even an authentic part of yourself for the sake of secure attachment. But it's more about like harnessing what's working for you, accept where you're at.

1:01:59But then take and harness what is working for people who are securely attached for yourself too. Yeah, and bring those tools into your communication and relationships. You know, for the anxious attachment, put the oxygen mask on first. Like we need to take care of ourselves before running around pleasing everyone else. Exactly. I mean, I love that analogy. is just like that. There's a reason why they say that in the safety briefings on planes, because if you try to help somebody else, you might like die in the process, pass out because you're not actually breathing. And I think that that's something that's really important for us to reinforce.

1:02:31In the research for this book, was there anything that stood out to you that was really surprising and interesting? Yeah. I mean, for me, I think that because there's been so much focus on romantic relationships, like what I found to be really interesting and surprising is just how much it can really affect all the different areas of your life, but even how much you dream, like how much you dream and what you vision for your life. Like when you ask those big questions, like the big miracle question of like, if you woke up the next day and you had the life that you wanted, what would it look like?

1:02:59What I find is that some people with insecure attachment, they just tend to have more difficulty dreaming big and like really envisioning a life where like things are relatively optimized. Like their dreams tend to be a little bit smaller or they tend to be either dependent on other people or too dependent on themselves. And so that I think is something that people need to know because again, in pop media, we always hear it being talked about in romantic relationships. And we've already talked about why that is so interesting and tantalizing for people. It makes sense. It's like the most intimate relationship for most people, but it shows up in so many areas.

1:03:33It shows up in like just at the base level, what you think is possible for you. And I think that that is so important for us to address. Yeah, and you mentioned it earlier, the secure attachment doesn't believe that they're not worthy, doesn't believe that good things shouldn't happen to them. And so much of our insecurity in the other insecure attachment styles has that belief that I'm not deserving, I shouldn't feel loved, I shouldn't speak out, I shouldn't achieve such big things in my life. I need to be focused on helping others achieve big things or they're worthy. Exactly. And the self-sabotaging behaviors and patterns come from that.

1:04:09Because when you do achieve something good, you're like, oh, something's not right. And then subconsciously you do things to mess it up or to take it away. And then, of course, once that does happen, you're like, aha, see? Didn't deserve it in the first place. That's why it went away. But we don't realize that our own behavior patterns and our thoughts are contributing to that. Beautifully put. So where can our audience find the book and the quiz and learn their attachment style? So you can follow me on social media at Dr. Judy Ho, or you can go to my website. I always have free resources on there at DrJudyHo.com.

1:04:38And you can find it wherever books are sold. Most people get it from Amazon. So it's available there. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Me too.

1:04:55This week's shout out comes from Daniel. and I'm going to let him tell you for himself. Take it away, Daniel. My name is Daniel and I'm a manufacturing engineer. My overall experience with the X-Factor Accelerator program has been excellent due to effective teaching and a supportive community of like-minded individuals. Since joining, I've cultivated deeper connections with my friends, family, and colleagues by implementing the conversational techniques learned in the program. These deeper connections have made my life more fulfilling, both personally and professionally. I would recommend joining the X Factor Accelerator program because the excellent teaching and consistent accountability ensure you will grow into the person that you want to become.

1:05:39Daniel, thank you for the kind words and it's been our pleasure to work with you. If you listened this far, my guess it's because you are ready to master communication and grow your wolf pack. Stop wasting your time trying to figure this out on your own. Stop putting off your best self and start building your future now. The X Factor Accelerator is the ultimate solution for analytical men ready to take action, build their wolf pack and find the one. Weekly coaching, implementation sessions, and a personalized curriculum designed to skyrocket your confidence, connection, and networking skills. With 17 years of expertise and over 10 ,000 clients satisfied, including executives, military personnel, and men just like you, the art of Charm has honed the art of transformation.

1:06:22Imagine reading any room, forging meaningful connections, and attracting the partner of your dreams. Scientifically backed lessons to unlock skills and become a super communicator. Break free from the ordinary and step into the extraordinary. Join the Art of Charms X Factor Accelerator today and unlock the secrets to your success. Visit unlockyourxfactor.com and learn more and take the first step towards a brighter, bolder future. The Art of Charms X Factor Accelerator, where confidence meets connection. Apply today at unlockyourxfactor.com. All right, before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery.

1:06:59Can you do us a quick favor? Can you rate and review this podcast in your favorite podcast app? It means the world to us and it helps amazing guests like Judy stop by. All right, now go out there and have an epic week.

1:07:17You threw your love away Like it was just a toy And you sold the world You're a song of a tragedy Cause you had your taste Of black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you If I'm not there If I'm not there If I'm not there If I'm not there