Overcoming Fear of Other People’s Opinions | Dr. Michael Gervais

27:24So we had like, we're measuring their brain activity, how much they were sweating, their heart rate. We're measuring everything that you could imagine. And the first level of pressure was me with a clipboard and one camera. And we just had, I think it was like 15 balls laid out. And we said, okay, go ahead and putt. And we're going to watch your bio data. You're going to get an understanding of what's happening inside you. So the local Duff guy, I'll make this number up. It was like eight for 15. He did okay. It was fine. The weekend pro hit like 12 out of 15. It was good. It was really good. He said, wow, that was harder than I thought.

28:00But he had enough skill in there to manage his quote unquote early level of pressure. Then Ricky Fowler, he hit 13 for 15. And at the end, I said, how'd you do? And I asked that question to everybody. How'd you do? And he said, yeah, pretty good. That was 14 for 15. And I said, oh, no, you're actually 13 for 15. He says, no, 14 for 15. And I look at the clipboard and I go, no. And there's two balls out there, right? And I go, no. And he squares up with me and he says, no, no, no, you're not understanding. I committed to 14 good shots. I'm 14 for 15. He goes, I don't care. It didn't go in. I committed to 14 good shots.

28:41I was like, ooh, look at that. Like there's something there that's really cool. And there's an urban legend about great performers that are committed to the process and committed to their way and not overly burdened by the outcome. And the rest of us mere mortals say, yeah, but that can't really be true. It's all about winning, isn't it? Well, when you get inside the minds of the greats, they are more interested in, quote unquote, perfecting the process, even though perfection doesn't work or doesn't exist. They're much more interested in committing. Okay, but that's not where the story gets really good.

29:16That's interesting, but not where it gets really good. So level two, we brought out a bit more pressure, more cameras, harder shots. Okay, so there's a bit more of a observation effect. Level three, big galley of people. You know, we brought in a stadium. We brought in big booming cameras, like a big crane with a sweeping thing. And we're measuring all of their physiology again. so it's like we're getting an inside look on how their brain is interpreting stress and then we've got their data up on this huge screen tv in front of the galley so like this huge okay so you get the stage right so on this third one the local guy the hack his activation level was high okay so he was he was nervous and he had lots of energy and it was high and but it wasn't overwhelming to him And it wasn't overwhelming as far as an absolute number.

30:09Let's make up the number for simplicity. It was like a seven and a half out of 10. That's high. You want to be, let's say, for this model at about like a five and a half. Okay. So he was up there. It was okay. And he did his thing and he's kind of laughing like, oh shit, that was hard. You know, like, wow. Okay, man. Like I've never done anything like that before. And he performed just a little bit worse in that third condition. Ricky Fowler. Let's go to Ricky. Ricky went all the way up to five and a half, spilt up to six, just a little bit in intensity. And then as soon as he putted, there was a lift to about a seven and a half, eight, and then a quick recovery down.

30:50So in other words, he was using all of his mental skills to keep it in the right ideal range. And then as soon as the ball left his club and he was done with it, He let the top off. There's this flood of intensity. And then he came back down so that he recovered quickly. But the key part here is he held the attention. The local pro, the local expert, he was flooding up at a nine. And he couldn't maintain that five and a half texture. He was flooding up at a nine. And he absolutely shit the bed when it came to measuring level one stress versus level three stress. And afterwards, he looked at us and he said, that's the hardest thing I've ever done.

31:34And his eyes are welled up. And he said, seriously, I need to talk to you about afterwards. I'm really a mess right now. I've never felt anything like this. I just want to escape. So it was really triggering for him. And good thing we signed all the right waivers ahead of time. at all the right, you know, you know, and of course we debrief properly. So the point that we ended up extracting here is that the key thread through all three of these people, independent of the conditions is just like you would imagine the weekend hack guy, his identity was not attached to it. He felt all the emotions.

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34:33CNBC put it in their top fintech companies in the world. There's a Reddit community with 34 ,000 users who shape how the product gets built. If you're not on top of your money, you're missing chances to save more, invest smarter, and hit your goals faster. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use code charm at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50 % off your first year at monarch.com with code charm. I would say he probably already felt like, I've already won. Like I'm here. I'm with Rocky Fowler. This is great. are you kidding me yeah right like this is awesome and that framing is really important oh yeah right okay so that's about his psychology framing and skills is kind of what it gets down to thinking and psychological skills are kind of the mechanics of sports psychology or the performance or the psychology of excellence if you will okay and then you would imagine ricky fowler his identity was not attached to how well he did.

35:34His identity was attached to the process of becoming his very best, of being authentic to his process. And so, of course, he's got some identity around being a pro golfer, but the inoculation to that becoming problematic is that he was committed to the process. All right. Very cool insight. And then he had all the skills to manage it. Okay. That's what pros do. Professionals train their craft. They train their body and they train their mind. The rest of us are going, Oh, the mind, I don't know. That's, isn't that for depressed people? You know, I'm like for decades, the best in the world have been at least in my experience have said, Hey doc, what do you got?

36:17You got something good here? Come on, let's get after it. Like I'm trying to do something here now. What can we do? What can we work on? What can we do? Can you help me out? That's what the best in the world do. They pull you. They hold a standard. They make you better too because they want to be their very best. All right. Sometimes some of them want to be the best. No problems in that either. All right. The local guy, the local pro, his entire identity is being the good guy locally. It was too much. So the takeaway is when you have a performance-based identity, You run right into the on-ramp of FOPO.

36:56You are overwhelmed by trying to manage what people think of you. And when your identity is wrapped in to what you do and how well you do it relative to others, every time you go to do that thing of yours that matters to you, your entire identity feels like it's at stake. It's as if your entire life was at stake. There is no redundant part of the brain that says, this is the part for your identity and this is the part for your physical survival. They're the same. So this is a very important takeaway. And our world, Western world in particular, is obsessed with performance. look at me culture is real.

37:36And if you want to find freedom in your life, I would highly suggest that you square up with, is my identity connected to what I do and how well I do it? Or is my identity more tuned to a purpose-based identity where I'm more connected to something that is larger than me, that I'm pouring into, that can't be solved by me alone? It's bigger than any one of us. And I play a small part in this large purpose in life. So performance-based to purpose-based is the crosswalk to get to for a deep level of freedom. Now, in working with athletes, especially a lot of young athletes, most of their accolades come around performance.

38:21So talk about childhood and how traumatic that'll be once their athletic career is over. and there is no standing ovation, there is no gold medal, there is no people treating you differently based on your performance, how do they then transition if you've found now, you've discovered, I am in a performance-based identity state. I need to get to purpose-based because I got a long life ahead of me and this doesn't feel really good right now. And I certainly don't want this to be my future. Most of us change because the pain is too great. And that's why one of the greatest things and kindest and most loving things we can do is help people feel their pain so that they can get ahead of rock bottom type of pain before they make these changes.

39:08I think the first order of business is to get with yourself, get a journal out, get with a wise person, meditate, one of those three best practices to get down into how do you feel about who you are in this world? And are you overly connected by how people are going to judge you or think about you? Are you overly connected to your performance aspect? Listen, for so long, I propped up that I was who I was because I was a grinder and because I was a hard worker and because I was smart, according to me, at least, and because I was good at something. And it's a mixed feeling for me because that anxiety, it did get me good at something because I was outworking everybody else out of grounded anxiety.

39:58I'm thankful for that because I'm able to be more artistic now and I'm really thankful that I had people in my life that kept knocking the calcium off saying what the fuck are you doing like is this really who you are like you're going to make that choice over this choice you're going to go and do that work rather than be with your family so I'm not saying this naively and I'm not saying this out without scar tissue. And I understand the need to get good or be good at something. I understand that. There can be a cost when it's, there just can be a cost now. So to your point, come full circle here, is how do we do it?

40:38Is that first order businesses feel the pain that comes with maybe the anxiety that you feel when you perform. Maybe it's a general anxiety in life, even when you're not performing. Maybe it's this confrontation, expectation, I'm sorry, this contorting or conforming to social approvals that is kind of keeping you stuck and you know it. It's facing that up a bit and getting there before you have a full-blown crisis. I'm thinking of a Super Bowl champion that said to me, Mike, I knew I was in trouble when I turned to my wife and I said to her, this is post-Super Bowl, how are you going to give me the love of 100 ,000 screaming people?

41:16How are you possibly going to fill that energy? How could you ever think that you're going to replace that part of my life? And he said he heard the words as it was coming out of his mouth, and he thought, I'm twisted. I've lost my way. And so that's one way to think about it. Another way is that 87 % of athletes in the NFL within two years are broke or divorced, or both. 93 in the NBA. So having a performance-based identity and having just the right amount of obsessiveness, anxiety, and narcissism can get you good at something. It could even get you on the world stage. Doesn't mean you're going to have it for a long time.

42:03Doesn't mean you're going to be happy. It doesn't mean it's sustainable. It is not the path of mastery. It's the path of high performance, which is like worlds apart. They look from the outside similar, but they are worlds apart. And when you listen to somebody on the path of mastery and somebody who is on the path of high performance, they don't sound the same either. So how do you do it? Feel some pain. Get down into some suffering. Have a community of people that you've invested in so much that they're going to be honest with you. And when you start to do some of that stuff, you go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:42what is my purpose in life? What am I doing here? And that's a big question, John. That's a big question, AJ. How do you do it? How do you know your purpose? Well, this just goes to show why this is so important. And we're talking about athletes who have tied their identity to that performance. Musicians do it well. And if you have that type of success early in life, it's not a guarantee that it's always going to be there. And obviously an athlete's career is rather short. Certainly. I mean, and their performance are going to be peaking at an early point in life with a whole life to live after that.

43:23AJ and I have been thankful to have interviewed people like Kobe, one of the greats. We were interviewing him for a children's book that he had written and his excitement and passion for what he was doing at that time was through the roof. I'm sitting there thinking this could be a game or writing a book. He's bringing that same amount of passion to whatever he is working on in that moment. And again, that was a skill that was developed over a very long time to get to that point. And I think he had something right in that passion didn't just come from doing a thing. Passion was the way I was going to live my life with all the things that I do.

44:15Correct. And that passion trap is unexamined for most people. And there's this level of frustration that I don't have that zest for life. I don't have that type of happiness or passion, quote unquote, in life, because I can't play the guitar as much as I'd like to, because I can't go surfing as much. I can't draw as much as I'd like to, because I've got this nine to five gig, or I had this altered experience where I could have gone the music route, but I took the sure thing and went into the family business, filling a million different narratives here. It's a nice way to stay a victim. And I'm using that word provocatively here, because it is possible to live with passion at everything, almost everything, let's say, let's be realistic.

44:59It is possible to live with passion across all things that you do as opposed to just having passion on the one thing that is easy for you to feel the passion. That's like an adult decision, I think. That's something that takes some real work to get better at, just like if you want to be healthy. That's an adult decision. We have to work to be healthy. It is so easy to grab a package, a man-made package of something or a human-made package of something versus organic from Mother Nature. It is so much easier to choose the easy as opposed to the hard right. And I think there's a handful of those adult decisions that we all need to make.

45:40And whether you're living aligned to FOPO or not, whether you're living more attuned to the fear of other people's opinions or your own unique way to write your own script, that's an adult decision as well. So Moby is obviously controversial in how he approaches life. And he's out there now. And he's got this, he and I had, I don't know if you guys have had the chance to get to know him, but he shares this story that the first time he saw himself on the cover of a magazine and when he was a musician and he was in it and he says, oh my God, I've done it. Like, this is a moment of validation for me.

46:20They love me. Here I am. People know me now. This means that I have meaning. I've arrived. They care about me. They're being nice to me. I have friends, you know, like fill in all the narratives. And then he said he spent the next 15 years obsessing over what people said about him. And he had to go cold turkey, just like with drugs for him, that he stopped paying attention. He had to go cold turkey and not hand over his sense of who he was to people that didn't even know him. And it sounds logical. I hear that and I go, yeah, that's what I would do too. But it's such a slippery drug when somebody looks across the room and nods at you like, yeah, I like what you're saying.

47:09And you're like, oh, I am okay. That's faux pas, actually. That's like loving the acceptance that somebody's giving you. But on the other shoe that's ready to drop is the fear of rejection, as opposed to you being your own tuning fork. Not that you don't care about what people think, but you're clear about the words that you're choosing. You're clear about why you're choosing those words because they ladder to your purpose. And you're clear that you want to include everybody in what you're doing that wants to be part of it. And the exclusion doesn't mean hatred or belittlement or critique. It just means that this mission, my mission, your mission are not lined up.

47:52No problems. Love you. Wish you the best. If Dr. King Jr., if Malcolm X, if Gandhi, if Mother Teresa, if you fill in the blanks, If they were in this conversation with us today, if Gandhi was here, I'm sure we'd be talking about freedom. If Dr. King was here, I'm sure we'd be talking about equality. If Mother Teresa here, I would bet that we're going to be talking about, you know, helping people that don't have the same kind of base of health that we have. So my question to my community and to my loved ones and to you guys, to your community is like, what are you doing here? we don't know how much longer we have.

48:33So what are you going to do with it? What is your purpose? And that is a adult question worth wrestling. Yeah. I think it's easy in a lot of ways to then fall into a trap of solitude and practice your craft and chase mastery in the dark on your own, whether it's your physical body, whether it's your tools or your skillsets, but there comes a point for everyone, not just these professional athletes that we've talked about with the cameras and the spotlight, but every single one of us are part of a community whether we like it or not. And that craft is going to see other people's opinions. That thing you've been working on that you've been performing at your best on that you're super passionate about is going to be out in the world.

49:13And if you've worked in solitude as a lone wolf, which we find in a lot of our clients, then all of a sudden you haven't built the calluses to handle the opinions that are going to come your way when that spotlight, when that craft sees the rest of the world. So outside of avoiding it, recognizing your purpose, tapping into it, and then being willing to share that purpose and that passion with others, which we discussed in a toolbox earlier this month, we find a lot of our clients are shamed about their passion, don't want to share their passion. And then we heard from Kobe, that's exactly what I look for in every single person that joins my team to help me with this book to help me with these movies that I'm producing.

49:53I'm looking for passion. If you can share your passion with others, you actually tap into a community of high performers who are also pursuing mastery instead of doing it alone in the dark, hoping that you'll be successful later if you just trudge on your own. I'm down with it. I think it takes incredible courage to do two things, to say the thing that you're passionate about, to walk the talk. There is like real work and some vulnerability there. And then to be public in any kind of way with the things that you're passionate about, because we are not perfect. My wife is in my head all the time.

50:32Hey, we're all just trying to figure it out. And, you know, we are imperfect in all ways. So like mistakes are part of the process. And when you give yourself that space and permission to make mistakes, it's so much easier. That's hard to do on a performance-based identity. Here's the thing. Your identity can change. Your purpose can also change. You do not have to go get neck tattoos or write it in stone. You can change in any way that you want. Take an example. Do you know the name George Mario Bergoglio? No, don't believe so. Okay, so in his younger years, he was a bar bouncer. He was a janitor.

51:13He was a part-time technician. He was responsible for raw materials and chemicals in a lab in Buenos Aires. That's his younger years. Today, fast forward, maybe decades, he's based in Rome. He lives in Rome. And he leads an organization, which is one of the largest organizations on the planet. They have 1.34 billion followers. Think about the size of that organization. In 2013, he became the head of the Catholic Church, right? Pope Francis is his name now, in honor of St. Francis of Assisi, you know, of animals. So I mean, like, do you think he thought at age whatever that as he was a technician in Buenos Aires that he was one day going to kind of run the show for the Catholic Church?

52:01Now, listen, they got some problems. I'm not putting this on a pedestal. I'm saying that our purposes are not evident from a young age. We tend to think that, oh, those people, they always knew. There are the rare ones. I think Kobe played basketball at a young age and says he loved it. That can happen. Listen, I didn't know what the hell I was doing as a kid. I barely know it now, but I do know that I'm clear about purpose to help people live in the present moment more often, period. How? Helping people train their mind. Because that's how we do it. Train your mind so you can live in the present moment more often.

52:38Many people listening to this go, great. Michael, you've cracked the code. You must be completely impervious to other people's opinions. And you share an anecdote in your own life of training an MMA fighter, going through the process to help him succeed, and then a mentor in your life actually sharing an opinion with you that It's much different than a YouTube comment left on this video. And then having to wrestle with that opinion and work your way through it, because this is from a mentor. This is from someone that you care deeply about and whose opinion you hold in high regard. If you can unpack that for our audience, I think it's really powerful because outside of the negative comments you might get in your day-to-day life, when we really put other people on that pedestal, we look up to them and value their opinion, whether it's parents, whether it's partners, whether it's people in our lives who are close to us or mentors.

53:27It can be really difficult for us to overcome those opinions. I want to work backwards and start in real time. I am not immune. I've been studying this a long time. The path of mastery, this great constrictor of people's opinions to my potential and other people's potential. I'm not immune to it. I am better at it than I've ever been because I work at it. I train it. But when I was young, this was a real thing for me. And when I was 15 years, 15 and a half, or 16, I should say, I just got my driver's license. I saved up for a couple summers to get a car. And I remember I was driving and there was a car passing me.

54:13And this was like week one or two of having my driver's license. They were passing me, going in the same direction. And I sat up, I grabbed the steering wheel with a cool kid lean. and I just wanted to look cool. And I looked over just in that kind of way, you know, as they're passing by and they didn't fucking look at me. They had no interest in what was happening in my world in my car. And in that moment, as a 16 year old kid, I thought, what am I doing? And I was embarrassed by it. There was no one else in my car, but I was embarrassed by myself. Like, I'm just trying to look cool. I'm like a phony.

54:53and it stuck with me and I didn't know how to change it. I didn't know how to shift it. And it just kind of was quiet, but I knew it was underneath there. And I knew it got in the way of me potentially going pro in surfing. And I knew it got in the way of a lot of things. And then sure enough, here I am working with the best in the world. My mentor says to me, there was a, we're walking, it was an MMA fight and it was early. It was like, I don't know, MMA 43 or something like that. And the fighter asked me, he says, Hey, will you be at the fight with me? I was like, yeah. He says, will you corner the fight with me?

55:26I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. That sounds cool. Let's have a game plan. So we worked out a game plan. We did a lot of work to prepare for that. And we rehearsed everything on how I was going to support him while he was in a cage, except we didn't rehearse where I was supposed to walk when he went into the cage. so I just followed the head coach and he didn't know where he was going to walk either and so we just kind of had to make our way to the spot and and so there I am kind of in front of the camera we're all kind of in front of the camera walking on the outside of the cage as the fighters walking into the cage my mentor calls me afterwards the fighter did a really nice job and my mentor called me on the way home as I was driving and he's like congrats like that looked pretty amazing.

56:13He says, why don't you stay out of the camera though, dude? And I was like, oh my God, I thought you were going to say like, congratulations. He says, cool. I know how much you love the MMA game. And he shot me, you know, like right in the heart. And he's like, stay out of the camera. That's not where you're supposed to be. And I was like, oh man, I did something wrong here. Like I was not a good custodian of this beautiful science and I let him down. I let like other, I don't know. And it just stayed with me for better part of a decade. And I never confronted him. I was again, embarrassed by it.

56:52I never, I didn't know what to do with it. Coming to find out he didn't really, it was just kind of a little comment, right? It was some, it was a monster that I grew and it was because I was afraid of what he would going to say to me. And I was afraid of what would happen because like I liked the moment where I walked on and like it was caught that I was part of something. I liked it, but we weren't supposed to do that. We're supposed to be behind the scenes. But I liked being part of something electric and fun. And I know that I was supposed to just be behind the scenes. And I wasn't, to be clear, I wasn't trying to hog the spotlight or anything.

57:28So it was really kind of confusing for me as an early professional in my career. And come to find out, it just wasn't a big deal to him as it was for me, but I made it a big deal. So I got scar tissue. I got stuff that I've worked through as well. And I'll tell you, it is much better on the other side of doing this work. I'm thankful that I've got people in my life that hold me to task, you know, and I hope that everybody has that in their life. And if they don't, you can pay somebody. In some respects, that's what psychologists do. They don't say, oh, it's okay, sweetie. It's okay, honey. Oh, okay.

58:06It's not that. It's like, oh, is this the person you want to be? No? All right, well, let's go to work. Yeah, for those in our audience who feel in that solitude, like they're strengthening their frame and their resolve and they're working towards mastery, those opinions on their own, especially without a supportive community who can help you unpack it and see the opinion for what it is and assess it truly to recognize. And then you had the opportunity, I'm assuming, based on that story, to share with your mentor and for him to say, listen, it was just an off-the-cuff statement. I wasn't holding you to that and certainly wanting to feed that monster for you.

58:42But oftentimes, if all we do is tuck that in, we avoid community. We avoid working as a professional. We avoid actually understanding the opinion and the impact it's having on ourselves. It can steer us away from the performance that we want, and it can take us off track from even finding our passion or purpose. A hundred percent. And if you're working inside an organization and you're really in, you want to do a nice job for the organization, football also decreases risk taking because you won't say the thing that needs to be said. You don't speak truth to power. You feel some kind of way about not speaking the truth.

59:17It also decreases creativity, innovation. There's a whole bunch of things that take place in organizations. So in many respects, if you're suffering with this in some kind of way, or you see your people that are not speaking up or are agitated or anxious or blaming or whatever, like maybe you're creating an environment that has FOPO in it as a leader. I'm suggesting also whether it's to work from the inside out, yes. And if you are fortunate to be in a leadership position, know that this is happening for most people. Their brain is saying, don't screw it up. Their brain is saying, don't get kicked out of the tribe.

59:56We need to invest in their psychology and create an environment to support them for speaking their mind, for going for it, for being honest, even if it comes out a little clumsy. And so, look, engagement and productivity are at all-time low in corporations. And so, FOPO is part of that. I don't know how to speak up. I don't know what to say. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how I fit in here. So leaders can help in very specific ways by helping increase seeing the purpose that somebody has to the shared mission of the organization, seeing what the person's impact has in that purpose and calling it out privately and publicly.

1:00:37And those start to shapeshift the way that people are afraid of saying or speaking truth to power because they see that they're valued. And so there's so much that we can do as leaders. And I know I'm shifting the paradigm here a little bit, but this is where most of us spend most of our time is at work. Some of us are leaders. Some of us are managers. Some of us are individual contributors. Come on, leaders. Most people are struggling with FOPO, if not you. There's a lot of work we can do. The future of work is going to be met by the future of leaders. Just like sport for kids is met at the handshake with the coach, the relationship with the coach.

1:01:19Business and experiences for people is met at the way that their leaders create space or create constriction. And that recognition of your own FOPO or potentially team members FOPO is increasing your emotional intelligence at a very core level. raising your self-awareness and recognizing that others are struggling with it and how can you support them increases your eq makes you a better leader and ultimately improves not only your performance but everyone around you right it's like a breath of fresh air when we can take that load off of someone else's shoulders so here's something that that we do at finding mastery we've got a small team of about 40 people and is like we just open it up like hey how's fopo showing up this week, this month?

1:02:03How's FOPO showing up for you the last couple days? And people are like, oh, I'm good. And then you just wait a minute and you're like, no, really? Has it shown up for you? Actually, there was this thing I wanted to say and I don't know. It's there now. It is there for people. And it's a simple question. And you have to wait, though, to get underneath of it. You have to give it a little bit of hydration because we're not quite sure if we can be authentic because we don't want to get kicked out of the tribe, you know? And so that's, that's kind of what I think one of the real gems of psychological safety at the workplace is about.

1:02:41It's like creating the right temperature and atmosphere for people to say what's up. And if you can do that, you're going to have a more productive, a more engaged, a higher performing organization. We know that from research. Well said. Thank you for joining us again. Our last question for you. I know you've asked it in the past. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it now. What do you believe is your X factor? What makes you unique and extraordinary? I love that question. And before we go, I want to say like, thank you for including me. I'm stoked of what you guys are doing, how you're doing it.

1:03:12And thank you for including me. The X factor, in sports sometimes we call it like the it factor, it's being fully present. And that's the thing that it's not charisma. It's not kindness. It's not a value or virtue. it's the skill of being fully present with other people and doing that consistently across conditions, whether that's when it's high stress or when it's a low stress moment is being fully present with other people. The X factor is not for somebody to determine if they have it, others determine it. And when others are in an environment with you and they say, I don't know, she just like, or he is like, wow, it's because you're fully present.

1:03:57And you're not abandoning who you say you are in those hard moments. You're fully engaged with other people and the task at hand. That to me feels like the prerequisite for the it factor or the X factor. Thank you again for joining us and sharing this wisdom in the book. Where can our audience find out more about the work you do? The website is really, you know, the easiest way. It's finding mastery.com. The podcast, of course, is a favorite place for us to build relationships. that's Finding Mastery. And then hopefully you punch over to findingmastery.com forward slash book to be able to check out the pre-offer for the first rule of mastery that's coming out.

1:04:39And you can buy the book anywhere that books are sold. Awesome, thank you again. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Marlon.

1:04:54Johnny, there's no bigger roadblock to success than other people's opinions of you, and certainly when they keep you from taking action in your life. Absolutely. And with social media, it seems like we can never escape it. But it's interesting because as I get older in years, my thoughts about what other people are thinking me certainly dissipate. With age comes, you just quit giving a fuck. Exactly. This week's shout out goes to Nate. He was telling us on an X Factor implementation call that he had a real estate networking event that went incredibly well. He mentioned that before the Art of Charm, he would have been nervous and probably would have avoided going out.

1:05:34And if he did, he would have had a terrible time. But now he looks forward towards these events and he has a fun strategy that makes the most most of his time connecting with like-minded people. He's relaxed and looks forward to them. AJ, he said it has never been so easy and fun. Way to go, Nate. Avoidance is never the answer to reaching your goals and building your dream life. Want to learn high-value networking skills and supercharge your career? Well, head on over to EliteHumanDynamics.com slash apply, unlock the skills that take your career and relationships to the next level. All right, before we head out, can you do us a quick favor and rate and review this show on your favorite podcast player?

1:06:16Your support helps us get incredible guests just like Michael. A huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harreld and Eric Montgomery. We hope you have an epic week.

1:06:40The world You're a song of a tragedy Cause you had your taste Of black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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