Perception Beats Perfection | Laura Huang

27:58So in some of my other work, I find, for example, that men and women, male and female entrepreneurs are getting asked different types of questions, right? So male entrepreneurs are more likely to get asked questions about potential. Like, how big could you take this? Where do you see this going? What's your vision? And women are more likely to get asked questions about risk. Like, how are you preventing against this? Have you controlled against these risk factors? And that leads to men being able to respond in bigger, more promotional ways, and women responding in more risk-focused ways, and then the men get the funding, right?

28:42But both male and female investors are asking these questions. It's not just male investors that are doing the biasing. It's female investors that are also doing it. And so the solutions, we got lots of sort of solutions that we're playing with, which involves things like having more women investors, having more women mentors. And that's certainly going to help, but that can't be it, right? It has to be something, there has to be other solutions if we know that women are doing this just as much as their male investor counterparts. So what I found in my research is that the best way to sort of counteract these effects, and And the last couple of years, I've been studying almost exclusively, how do we inoculate against these sort of biases?

29:34Because it's sort of depressing to hear about all of these negative findings. And it's really around guiding how you're being seen. And it's about stopping and redirecting and constantly redirecting how the message is unfolding, redirecting that trajectory. And so, for example, when you recognize that you're getting asked a question that's very much about risk and your competitors, you answer the question quickly. But then you say something like, and because we're able to, you know, go head to head with these competitors, it opens up this opportunity, all of these other opportunities. And you very quickly bring it to your vision and how big it is and how scalable the company is and all of these really big opportunistic types of things.

30:23And so then you're back on sort of level playing ground, if not better off. So lots of different examples of how you can stop and redirect to counteract these effects.

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33:33so knowing that your first impression is something you can improve knowing that perceptions are something that are going to be universal going in both sexes do it these biases exist and fighting against it or putting your hands over your ears and pretending they're not there is not helpful and it sounds like there's a lot of prep here and and johnny and i love a great acronym the book is all about this acronym of EDGE. So let's break down what you mean by EDGE and go through how our listeners can start building these advantages against these biases that we all face. You've got the acronym. I'm so excited.

34:08I'm thrilled that you got it because, you know, the book is about how do you gain an EDGE. But I don't ever explicitly say that EDGE stands for, you know, these four things. And so that was my little way of kind of putting in trying to delight people who kind of read it and were like, oh, it stands for something. So Gating in Edge is based on four components, E, D, G, E. So the E, the first E is about enrich. It's about how do you enrich? How do you provide value? Your message, your ability to achieve success, it's all based on your ability to provide value and enrich what you're working on, enrich what others are working on.

34:58And so it goes back to knowing what are the ways in which you enrich? What are your superpowers? Now, well, just there was one point that I wanted to clear up there. And it was that you mentioned that there was two parts for enrich, two parts for value, knowing the value that you're bringing, but also it doesn't really matter all that much if the other party doesn't understand or know your value. Yeah, that's right. Well, I mean, enrich is one of those things where like you might know you provide a lot of value, but other people need to know that too. And the problem is that there are definitely people who have that second part, which is other people think that they provide value, but there's no substance behind it.

35:44That's where we get so frustrated because, you know, those are the people that are really good at posturing and catering and giving the semblance of having value, but they don't actually have anything to back it up. And, you know, the unfortunate thing is there's people who go on that for a really long time. Like you can ride that wave for a pretty long time. But where it really sustains is when you have both pieces, that you actually do provide value and that other people know it as well. The problem is that, you know, we don't always have the opportunity to show people how we enrich because maybe we don't belong to the right circles or people are not giving us those opportunities.

36:26And so D, the D of edge is for delight, which is, you know, in order to be given that opportunity, you need to get that entree. You need to get that entrance. And you get that entrance by people who have written you off, but you surprise them in some small way. You do something that's counterintuitive or slightly off-putting or slightly unexpected. And then it makes them sort of say, huh, like I didn't expect that. And it makes them take notice. And that's when you can then start to show how you enrich. And that delight, that feeling that I'm trying to bottle and encapsulate, like people are like, how do you know?

37:03Like, what is that? It's like the first time you took Uber, right? Forget all the other stuff about Uber. and all of the subsequent things and the management and all of that. But like, think back to the very first time. I remember it very clearly. And I remember hearing about it. I wrote on Twitter. I said, how is this different than a cab? Okay. And they said, use it and find out. Here's a code. Yep. And I took it to the airport and I was like, I'm delighted. I'm delighted. Right? Like, I'm delighted. Like it's this weird, like you have, I mean, a lot of people, I mean, I have this weird feeling of like, oh my gosh, this is sort of cool.

37:46I'm in some stranger's car and they know where they're, so it's like simultaneously terrifying, but also really cool. And, and, you know, all these questions are going through your head. Like, so I don't pay them cash. Like it just takes care of itself and they know where I'm going. and I just get out and say thanks and bye. Like there's all of these sort of emotions and feelings and like that's delight. Like you're intrigued, you're surprised. You have this simultaneous feeling of being terrified and impressed and delighted all at the same time. That's when you get the opportunity to show how you provide value.

38:30Now, I just want to jump back to Enrich because I do feel like both sides of the coin, there are very few that master and a lot of us get struggle. A lot of us struggle around the idea of being an advocate for ourself and demonstrating that value because we don't want to be the bragger. We don't want to be the brown noser. And what ends up happening is realistically, whether it's an investor or your boss, they're not paying attention to everything that you're doing and all the value you bring. You're a cog in a process that's running. And unless you're advocating for yourself, no one else is running in there and saying, AJ did this fantastic job.

39:07You need to promote him or you need to invest in him. And for those of us who feel weird around this idea of, hey, I get bringing value, but it's the showing it and allowing other people to see it that I struggle with. Do you have some tips or some strategies that you've seen work in the investment space or in the corporate world? Yeah, such a great question, right? Because, you know, the The point of this, right, is that we do want to be showing our best selves and we do want to be advocating for ourselves, but it can go horribly wrong, right? It can go horribly wrong where we are seen as bragging or, you know, not sort of sharing the credit.

39:47And, you know, and so it's like this fine line between how you do it. And I think that's where, you know, even though these are four different pieces of the framework, they all intersect and go together, right? You're not just delighting and then all of a sudden you move on to G, which is guiding. you're not just delighting and then all of a sudden you're done delighting because now you can enrich and they're they're totally on board with everything as you're enriching you have to continue to guide and be guiding that message and guiding how they see you and a big part of this is not being over prepared right we just like we sort of say like work hard work hard work hard we're always like prepare make sure that you're so prepared that you know this thing cold well Actualing, that prevents us from having a lot of these authentic opportunities to delight and show how we enrich, right?

40:43It means, it doesn't mean don't prepare at all, but like have a couple of bullet points. Like know what your two or three superpowers are. And, you know, we don't, we're not cognitively set up where our brains are not big enough to remember 16 things at once. And when we try to, it makes us stiff. It makes us seem like we're raggards. It makes us seem like we're trying too hard or that we're trying to game the system. Be confident. Be willing to embarrass yourself. Be willing to have humility. Know a couple of things that you want to be saying. And then dynamically sort of improvise off of those things because you've got loose guidelines.

41:20And when you do that in a sort of general sense, it allows you to really achieve these perceptions and these authentic perceptions of yourself in a much more holistic and realistic way. it also helps you you know it's the people who do this the best and it's something that's so hard is like realizing this is not a zero-sum game it's not that when I win somebody else has to lose or when somebody else wins I lose it's realizing that this universe is huge there's a really big pie and there's lots to be to be shared and when we're showing a version of ourself that you know is something that we're really proud of it doesn't mean that we can't also be showcasing other people and doing it with the best interests of other people at heart, right?

42:11The people who do this the best are the ones who don't ever sacrifice other people. They're not willing to step on other people for their own gain. Well, this quote that you have, I just love it. And I think it works really well because with a lot of our clients, they are afraid to promote themselves or to show their skills or to put out that story. And this quote of, if you don't give your own story of who you are, that story will be given to you. And if that doesn't present the urgency of why you need to learn this skill and have it in your pocket and put it together, then I don't have anything else to tell you.

42:51But I mean, that sums it up. Yeah. We love telling stories about other people. Like we meet somebody once and we're like, oh, they must have like, they must have had a rough childhood or they must have like this or like in college, they must have been such a jock or like we tell these stories about people based on, you know, we love inventing stories about other people. And in actuality, people have such fascinating stories and everyone, you know, it's, you should be sharing your stories. You should be giving them this sort of, you know, I was talking to somebody today and we were talking about like how we were in high school and you know and he was saying and he was sort of laughing at me because I was talking about how you know he's like well what were you good at in high school what were you good at I'm like I was good at math like like and I was like you know it's you know it's like people hate you know you don't hate me for that because I wasn't very I wasn't very good at all those things like I wasn't good at sports and I and I was and I was so painfully shy that I didn't really, you know, that's what I was good at.

43:52I loved how orderly it was. It was so dependable. Like I was really good at math. And he was like, I was horrible at school. You know, I was, I played every single sport. I was like a solid C student. And we were laughing about like our trajectories and our stories and how like today, you know, fast forward, you know, 20, 30 years later that we're able to like really connect on this level that, that we wouldn't have been able to, you know, years and years ago. And, you know, if he had just heard me say, like, I'm really good at math, he would have written me off and, like, painted my whole trajectory from the age of, like, 13 to the age I am now of this story of, you know, and not gotten, like, who I am and, you know, sort of the parts of me that are really provocative and outspoken because it would have been replaced with these stories about how I was really shy and introverted.

44:50And so it's just amazing how you can have these connections with people when you do tell your own story. And unashamedly, unabashedly share that story. Now, it's one of those things that we laugh about in our course that you can own the narrative around embarrassment and shame as a youth. You can own that story of, yeah, I was a little dorkier. I was a little nerdy based on conventions, but look at who I am now. That's what matters. The flip side of this, going back to delight, you know, for us, we've talked ad nauseum about humor and how important it is. And everyone gets it in a social setting.

45:27But whenever we say, hey, no, we want you to be humorous at work. We want you to be humorous in a pitch. Bringing humor actually helps. They always scrunch their face, shake their head. No, that's not going to work. You actually dig into a study in the book about how humor can manage impressions and actually project competence and higher status. I found that so fascinating because we've been saying it without knowing the science and it's something that's counterintuitive because most of us go into those very professional settings and think the only part of my diamond, to borrow your analogy, that I can show is the non-humorous, serious AJ.

46:04Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the humor part of it is tricky because we sort of all are like, yeah, we know that humor is good. People respond to it. But like when you say to someone like be funny, like it's really hard to be like be funny. Right. If someone says like to me, be funny, I'm like, oh, like I don't know what to say. But like because humor is is it's like it's a it's a reciprocal thing. Right. Right. It's it's it's it's something that, again, like you you're you're funniest when you're sort of improvising. You're funny when you're when you're reading what's happening and you're reading the context.

46:40And it's almost like an offhanded thing that you that you sort of say that's that's really funny. Right. You know, I like I love to sort of share the example of the when I met Hassan Minaj, who is, you know, for his job, he has to be fun. Like that's his job to be to be funny. And I tell this story about how like I within like a couple of seconds made him laugh. And I was like, that is like, you know, that is weird. Like, how did I? But he was like he he you know, so but it was really this thing where it was he it was sort of like how do comedians be funny? How do comedians sound stay funny? How do professors stay educated?

47:23Like we were making these jokes and going back and forth based on who he was as a comedian and who I was as a professor. And I was able to be Sonny because I know what being a professor is like. And I was giving sort of offhanded comments about something that I knew, something that was really me and was one of my basics, right? Like one of my basic goods that I talk about. Like when you enrich, think about like what really authentically makes you you, right? It would never work for me to go out there and try and, you know, and I've tried this, right? Like when I, for one of my earliest jobs, people like, you need to network.

48:03Like you need to meet some of the top executives. Like go out to lunch with them, go out to drinks with them. And I was like, okay, okay. I need to like network. I need to meet these people. And I feel like, I'd be like, can we go to lunch together? Like, can we grab after, like drinks after, like it's so weird, right? Like I'm sitting there with this, this executive. And then the whole time the conversation is forced. He doesn't want to be there. I'm like feeling uncomfortable because I'm like, I'm wasting this person's time. But when you find those authentic opportunities to to do that, and and and one of these executives that I share the story of is how, you know, we ended up on the same airplane at one point at this conference.

48:51And as we were leaving the plane, he was like, oh, do you have a ride to the conference hotel? You know, my driver is here to pick me up. And I was, you know, like my private driver is here to pick me up. And I'm like, oh, yeah, my private driver is here to pick me up too. You know, my private Uber driver. And then he, you know, sort of chuckled. And he was like, why don't you come and ride in my private car? and we had this 45-minute chat through, you know, from the airport to the hotel where it was not forced. It was not me saying like, give up an hour of your time to have lunch with me and let me try and wow you so that you like me so that now I've networked.

49:31It was like, we're going to this conference hotel. There was no pressure for me to talk about anything in particular. So we were able to talk about like, you know, our dogs and our childhoods and, you know, what we think about, you know, the chance, how the Yankees are going to do this year. And like, we formed this authentic connection. And then to this day, he's still one of my, you know, one of my champions, the people I go to, because we were able to do that. And it was based on this premise of like, real humor of him seeing the nature of my funny, rather than the nature of a funny that I was trying to attribute to myself falsely.

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51:32Everyone knows exactly what to expect. it's when you zig and everyone's expecting you to zag that you stand out and that gives you that edge and delight is a big part of that. Now, of course, guide is the meat guides the project because it's ongoing. You have to keep honing this story. It's not just tell your story once and assume the world knows it and they're just going to cheer you on. Yeah. How do we continue to guide and form this edge and advantage that we're looking for? Yeah. You have to have lots of degrees of freedom, right? When you are prepared and you're able to, and you know, I mean, the trickiest part is having that self-awareness of who you are and that awareness of how the other person is seeing you.

52:17Being able to have those experiences where you can be in front of different people and being like, this person's going to see me differently than that person. And when you have that sort of awareness, then you're able to build in more freedom for yourself to go in different directions, try out different things and be able to sort of delight. And, you know, it is really hard because, you know, people sort of ask me often, like, you study how to turn disadvantage into an advantage. And you study how to take obstacles and constraints and flip them in your favor. So what are the 10 steps? What are the three steps?

53:02Or what are, you know, what are the steps that I need to do to get there? How do I gain an edge? And the thing is, I mean, like, I would love to be able to give everybody a recipe and be like, here's what you do. You mix a little of this and a little of that. But it's not a recipe. It's not like the 10 steps to gaining an edge. Because if I did give that to you, it wouldn't work as well. Right? Really what it is, it's a perspective. It's a perspective for thinking it through so that you can develop your own unique edge. That's where you get the unfair piece. Because when you've taken that perspective and making it yours and making it your unique edge is when it becomes a much sharper edge and a much more refined and a much more useful and effective edge than if you're just going to import it from somebody else.

53:58So taking that perspective and then continuously developing it and honing it and practicing it, that's where, you know, and I offer lots of different strategies for ways that you can hone it, right? So being able to practice doing this in a variety of different situations. So I'm happy to give you, you know, like I'll give you one example of this just to kind of illustrate what I'm talking about. There's one exercise that I do with my students, which is called the 10 no's exercise. And the goal of it is in one week, they have to get 10 people to say no to them. Yeah. And so, and, you know, and the point of this is sort of, number one, when we're asking people, we're not really ever in situations where we're thinking like, I'm trying to get a no.

54:49We're always trying to ask for things by trying to get a yes, right? Getting them to agree to something. And when you're trying to actively get a no, when you're a homework assignment is to get a no, it changes the way you interact with people. So you start to learn like, hey, like you start to see patterns and see differences that you didn't normally see throughout the course of your life. The second thing you learn is that it's actually a lot harder to get people to say no than you think, right? People are not equipped to say no. If you get somebody hedging or some sort of a yes, but no, but I'll do this for you instead, that doesn't count, right?

55:27It has to be a full fledged no. It can't be a concession, right? So it only counts as a full fledged no. And so you realize like how extreme some of these requests have to get before you actually get a no. And in going through this exercise, you learn, you learn like the whole goal is to sort of embarrass yourself and get a no. The whole point of this is for you to get a no. So you have permission now to go and do these sort of things that you never would have done before. And so there's all sorts of exercises and strategies that I talk about in developing this intuition and developing your ability to interact with others.

56:06And everyone's intuition of the no tends to, especially with inexperience, tends to create this box around yourself that's completely invisible. And we assume that the no is going to happen rapidly and people are going to be comfortable saying no to us when in fact the opposite is true. And we've been doing this exercise for decades with our clients. And one of our favorite examples is we were out one night and we said, OK, same thing. Go get 10 no's since you're so afraid of getting a no and being rejected. Let's push through this and see what you can get away with. And he was chatting up this gentleman at the bar and he's trying to get a no, actively trying to get a no.

56:43And he walks back over to us with a key to a Porsche 911 and his face is white. And he's like, I don't know how to drive a stick. And we're like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, I did the exercise. I'm trying to ask for no. So I asked if I could drive this guy's car. And he's like, yeah, here you go. Here's my keys. Where do you need to go? And now he's holding this guy's keys. And he's like, I thought for sure I would get a no asking if I could borrow a stranger's car. We create these bounds, these limiting beliefs around ourselves that unless we are actively testing them, we can't build that intuition to gain the edge.

57:15I want to add to that. Your worldview and how important it is, how you go out into the world and what you can do and what's acceptable, that is all placed on you. And if you haven't done the work to meticulously test all these ideas, then you've adopted one that somebody has handed to you. And if it was a worldview that was handed to you by CNN or Fox News, or you're going to have some crazy ideas about what's going on. And the only way to pierce through that is an exercise like that, where you all of a sudden, you just, you just, through this experience, have now have went from everyone's mean and cold and unfriendly to actually, everyone is actually really nice and very friendly and actually accommodating.

58:19and that shift can only happen through your own personal experience. I could tell you that all day long, but if you don't go out and do the exercise, you won't believe it. You won't believe it. Absolutely. And everyone's being viewed in different ways too, right? So if I were to ask somebody to drive their Porsche 911, they'd be like, you know, there might be a person like, what? You're Asian. You're a woman. You're a horrible driver. Why would you drive? I first 9-11, right? But if I was like, let me take your child for 24 hours, right? And they might be like, yeah, you look dependable. Like you're a professor, you teach at Harvard.

59:02Like, yeah, of course, let's take my child for 24 hours, right? It really changes based on who you are and who they kind of see you as. And, you know, some of it's sort of sad, right? It's sad that like there are these sort of stereotypes, but because there are these stereotypes, it also gives you the power to flip them. Like, because you know about them, because I know that I'm going to be interpreted in certain ways, that's powerful. It's powerful to know the negative perceptions that people have of me too. Because that gives me information that I can use if I choose to use it in a way that can put me back into a position where I do have advantages.

59:46So, you know, it's an important thing to sort of remember that, you know, the very thing that is poisoning what we experience is the anecdote to what can fix it as well. So now one of the things that I found in coaching a lot of our clients who are starting out in their career, as top performers, they're pretty much thrown into the deep end. And in these situations, they feel the need to ask a ton of questions. And unfortunately, when we ask a ton of questions, we're also then perceived as lacking in competence and unable to do our job. So then the flip happens and they don't ask any questions and then they can't even achieve the results that they're looking for because they're totally lost.

1:00:32So for those who are starting out in their career, who are feeling this imbalance and wanting to turn that perception from being someone who's lacking in confidence to someone who's a top performer, what can we do knowing that that's going to be the perception put on us as a beginner or a junior at a company? Yeah, you know what's so interesting there is that there's two different types of questions, right? There's the questions that we ask and there's the questions that others ask of us. And we don't often effectively use either of those in the right ways or in the most effective ways, right?

1:01:07So you spoke first about asking lots of questions and seeming not competent and other sorts of interpretations that people might have of us. It's asking the right questions, right? It's asking questions. Like, what's the point of your question, right? Is it to inform? Is it to learn? Is it to, you know, there's all of these different reasons why we ask questions. And the most effective types of questions are the ones that indicate that, you know, there's research that's been done that shows that the best type of question is one that simultaneously shows that you've listened and you're building on, right?

1:01:45So somebody says something and you ask a question that acknowledges that you heard and then takes it one layer further. And that sort of shows that not only are you competent because you listened and understood, but that you're inquisitive and curious and want to continue learning because you take it that one layer further. The part that we forget a lot is the questions that are asked of us. right and we don't use those opportunities in well enough like we sort of like we're thinking about what we want to say to the net we were thinking about the next question we want to ask or we're thinking about like our to-do list or the next thing that we're going to be doing and we don't take advantage of the questions that that that other people have when other people are asking questions like that is your opportunity to shine right that is your way of like that's when you can really wow them.

1:02:42You know, it's especially like when I study pitches. So a lot of my data and a lot of the studies that I've done have been looking at, have looked at pitch competitions and the way in which people present themselves to investors. And overwhelmingly, entrepreneurs think of pitching as selling. Like they give a pitch and they think about selling, but it's not selling. Pitching is about starting a conversation. So when you pitch, instead of like going out there and trying to wow them through your pitch, your pitch should instead be little chews of questions that people will then ask of you, right?

1:03:24So you'll say something like, this product has, you know, this product is top of the line. The technology is blah, blah, blah, whatever. So don't you say something like top of the line, people will ask you about the technology behind it, the engineering behind it. You don't need to say that in your pitch. They'll ask you that question. And then that's when you wow them with your like, and I'm like a peach, I have a PhD in physics and I developed this algorithm through the 10 years and it works through this and that. Not only have you not wasted your pitch time, but you're actually wowing them through the questions and engaging them in a dialogue and use the conversation of interest.

1:04:06So effectively using both the questions you ask and the questions you receive can really allow you to prevent from a lot of those initial perceptions that may be leading to the subpar outcomes. I think it's funny. I mean, a lot of that is in copy as well. Like you don't want to give them all the information. You want to give them just enough for them to get curious to peer further. And then you have the open door of here's everything you've just asked for. And it's, they're happy because they are the ones that asked for it. But if you give them that all up front, they're like, what is this? I can't make heads or tails.

1:04:44This is too much. I don't know where to begin. I'm out of here. Absolutely. And they also don't understand. They don't, they also don't understand everything that you're saying in the business. And so they don't want to look like idiots. So they like latch onto like one small thing that they do understand, which is maybe so tangential to what you're actually doing. And then the questions go off on this completely different thing. And you're not able to actually impress them with what you're actually doing. So you're absolutely right. Now, not to leave the audience hanging, but the last letter in our acronym here, edge is effort.

1:05:20And we talked about this at the start. Hard work isn't enough. Everyone is working hard. Everyone is trying to prove their worth. So what is that extra effort that we need to be putting in to stand out to get that advantage? Yeah. So that E, that effort, that effort and hard work comes last, right? It's last in the E-D-G-E, in gaining an edge. We tend to think that hard work and effort comes first, right? You put in the hard work, you'll get the rewards. You put in the hard work, you'll see the success. But in fact, actually, hard work should come last. You should be thinking about how you enrich and provide value and how you delight and how you guide.

1:05:56Because when you do all of those things, then when you put in the hard work, your hard work goes that much farther for you. That's when the hard work speaks for itself because you've already positioned yourself in a way that you're showing how you enrich, delight, and guide. And then your hard work really does work harder for you. So that's why that lat E is effort and it comes last. I, this is so funny to me. So I'm 46 growing up in the eighties and especially in the late eighties, early nineties, I can't remember the company, but there was a commercial and it was a bunch of young folk who are getting job interviews and they're out and they just graduated.

1:06:36They're in the field and they're interviewing for jobs. And they kept saying, oh, well, I'm a people person. I'm a people person. And the whole point of the commercial was, everyone's a people person. You need more skills. You need to get it together. And now we have gotten to a place where, hey, let's get back to people skills. Does anyone have people skills anymore? I mean, that's, it is fully swung the other way. And it cracks me up. I mean, there's like ebbs and flows, right? I mean, I think we all know that, you know, you need, And it stains, right? Like that's the enrichment. You need substance, but you also need people to know that value you provide, right?

1:07:12So there's the people part of it, as well as the real like enriching substance piece of it. And so like we are going, you're like toggling back and forth. But I think it's important to sort of understand how the two operate, right? In conjunction with each other. So yeah, yeah, totally. And in studying angel investment, the buzzword is always passion. Entrepreneurs think they're passionate, investors are looking for passion, but that's such a subjective metric. What exactly is the passion that leads to investment and how can we showcase that, whether we're pitching our ideas for investment or we're just trying to show that passion at work to get promoted?

1:07:51Yeah, passion is such a funny word, right? So like passion was a big like predictor. So passion was one of the things that I looked for when I was studying intuition and gut feel, right? the extent to which people value passion as this positive, like it elicits positive gut feels, gut feel from investors when, when somebody is passionate. And it's so funny because like your definition of passion is going to be different from my passion. Definition of passion is going to be different from somebody else's definition of passion. So like we all have different definitions of passion, but what's even more interesting is that even within a single person, people are confused about what passion means.

1:08:34So I had this one investor who I was interviewing and he was talking about how he never invests in any entrepreneurs who are passionate, right? They've gotta be passionate about their company. They, you know, I only invest in people who really just show me passion. And then this same investor, like five minutes later in the same interview was like oh and then there's this other guy that i just i couldn't invest in him because it was like he drank way too much coffee he was way too passionate and it just bugged me the wrong way right so even within the same person we have all of these different conceptualizations of what what something is right and so it really goes back to Yes, there are qualities that we look for in people, but it's so dependent on that particular interaction in that space between you and I and what's happening in that space.

1:09:35Where we are, the context that we're in, right? Are we in an interview situation? Are we in a social situation? Are we traveling together? Are we, you know, you, again, you know, I always say like you switch one variable, right? You switch the industry you're in, you switch the location, you switch the mix of people, and everything changes, right? Your definition of passion changes, the metrics by which you evaluate passion changes, even the extent to which passion matters, that changes. I think the important lesson in all of this is increasing your emotional intelligence through experience, through that trial and error and not being embarrassed or ashamed of gaining the experience that leads to this emotional intelligence.

1:10:21So you can pick up the context. You can know that being passionate at a social event about your idea is a lot different than being passionate in a boardroom about your idea and being able to dial it into your audience and read those cues just as much as you're managing your own is where that emotional intelligence lies. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate the book. It's phenomenal. And of course, giving us some actionable tips here on the show. Where can our audience find more about the work that you do and obviously pick up your book? Yeah. so my website laurahuang.net so my first name last name h-u-a-n-g dot net lots of sort of tips there there's also a downloadable guide to finding your edge and that has lots of sort of how to's and strategies for honing and working on on your edge and then you know of course all of the the normal cast of characters.

1:11:15Um, I'm on Twitter, Laura Huang LA, um, same with Instagram, Laura Huang LA. Um, you know, my, my Instagram is slightly weaker than my Twitter game. So I'm working on, I'm aspirationally working on, on Instagram, but I'm also, you know, on Facebook, LinkedIn, um, one video on Tik TOK. So, you know, we're getting there. You're officially an influencer. I'm trying, you know, it's hard. It's a hard medium. All right. Well, thank you again for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thanks so much. It was such a pleasure chatting with you guys.

1:12:01Thank you for joining us for another fantastic episode of the Art of Charm podcast. This is the part where we celebrate one of our X Factor members. Take it away, Clint. This is Clint, and I'm in capital sales, and I'm a former X Factor student. I joined X Factor because I felt I needed more personal and professional growth. I considered myself successful in my career, but when it came to having conversations with customers, I felt I wasn't building relationships to their full potential. I then started noticing I was having similar shortfalls in personal relationships. Additionally, I felt a confidence void in certain situations, and I was hoping I could improve on that as well.

1:12:45Through the work I did at X Factor and the core confidence course, I was able to improve on both of these areas of my life. And since completing the X Factor, I've transitioned to a new position and the skills learned helped me securing an approximate 30 % increase in pay. So to any guy who considers himself a driven individual, but feels he's not quite achieving all he thinks is possible in his current situation, I'd say look hard at joining X Factor. It sure did great things for me. Thank you, Clint. It was a pleasure and an honor working with you too. and good luck to all of your future endeavors.

1:13:25If you found value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It means the world to us and it helps others find the show. All right, before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. Now everyone go out there and have a very epic week.

1:13:54You threw your love away Like you was just a toy And you sold the world You're a song of a tragedy Cause you had your taste All black on the yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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