The Myth of Self-Made Success | Daniel Coyle

26:11So there was not a ton of connection. And there was this journalist who retired. And he was kind of an introvert. But he decided to do a social experiment. and it was pretty simple. We're going to put the longest table in Paris. We're going to have the longest table for lunch in Paris and invite the whole neighborhood to lunch. Potluck. Everybody bring their stuff. Everybody showed up. And then, which surprised everybody and everybody was delighted. People said, no, people aren't going to do this. People did. People showed up. And then he started asking them if they wanted to be in interest groups together, like the cat-loving group and the bicycle group and the museum-visiting group and the healthcare group, whatever it was, the tea drinking group.

26:54And they started dividing. And they only had two rules in the division. No negative conversation, no political conversation. And you had to gather around what he called a joy device, which is booze, coffee, music. You had to have a joy device. Joy device, no politics. And it was a very divided neighborhood that now, a couple years later, feels like a village. like to hear the people talk in that neighborhood about how connected they feel to see an old woman say i broke my wrist and i had 15 people offer to help me um get my groceries that week like it's not that far away we are pre-wired like we got here our ancestors your ancestors got here by cooperating in community by creating meaningful close caring communities you don't survive unless you do.

27:44And so this wave of modernity that is isolating us and sweeping and capturing our attention so much, you know, community seems really far away. But what I saw in that Paris neighborhood and what I saw in the other places I visited is it's it's it. There are many things in life that are like flipping a switch, but actually we are pre-wired to do this stuff. And that's why we recognize it quickly when we're in it. And that's why we're able to. So as far away as it seems, I think it's closer than we might imagine as this neighborhood shows.

28:16Johnny:We've basically started the business in New York City and moved to Los Angeles. We've lived in big, highly dense cities that are similar to Paris that, you know, you put your headphones in, you avoid other people, you don't really talk to your neighbors. And every time we've moved, I've noticed the exact same plan and strategy by Johnny come into effect. And all of a sudden we have community where we moved, which is just inviting people into your life, inviting people over. Hey, I'm having dinner. Hey, I'm having drinks. Hey, I'm going to be hanging by the pool. And you'll find those chance meetings in the hallway now from avoiding each other or being on your phone completely shift to, oh, now we're barbecuing by the pool or we're watching an NFL game on Sunday together.

28:55Johnny:And everyone in the community, the apartment building, the neighborhood is actually warm and friendly and wants to come together. So it can feel in a lot of these really dense situations like, oh, that's so that's so far away. but just the simple act of inviting people to that communal dinner table in the Paris neighborhood, inviting them over to your place for a drink, inviting them to come down to the pool to barbecue or go shoot some pool creates this opportunity for what feels like complete strangers living in an apartment building to come together. And all of a sudden you have a vibrant group around you so that you can flourish so that opportunities can be presented to you.

29:30Johnny:And it's so easy to feel that when we're on this achievement path, we have these goals that we're focused on and their SMART goals and we're timing them and we're focusing on orienting ourself in a certain way to fall into this lonely wolf camp. And we see this a lot with our clients where they get singularly focused on getting in shape or getting to this level of their career and they start to push away those opportunities for community. They push away that invite to dinner. They don't engage in those small talk conversations and it is very isolating and then it can feel very frustrating and divisive.

30:03Everyone's been through a lot in the last five years and the the visions have grown wider and and for a lot of people and i don't blame them there's a lot of irreconcilable differences that that cannot be overcome but that is not to say that people don't wear their identity and their ideas in their clothes in their demeanor the activities that they go to you know who you vibe with you're not just pulling rabbits out of a hat and hope and the magic trick works. It's, you're going to be vibing with people. You're going to enjoy their style. You're going to notice things about them that you can relate to and others that you can't.

30:46So, you know, it's on you to do a little, to be a little bit strategic about it and learn what those signals are. I mean, this is AJ and I've spent 20 years teaching people how to read these signals, how to get into rooms that you're locked outside of. And it's incredibly easy when you know what to listen for, you know what to look for, and you know how to maneuver. And you'd be surprised at the opportunities that are in front of you if you only tried, if you only applied this stuff. It's so true. And the person who's hardest to read, of course, building on what you're saying, is yourself. Like reading the signals you are sending and we are terrible predictors of whether we're going to enjoy an interaction.

31:32Like Nick Epley at University of Chicago has done all these fascinating, you're nodding, so I'm thinking you probably bumped into him before. But it's like, we're terrible at predicting if we're going to like this moment. We're terrible at predicting if we're going to like this conversation. And so reading the signals that my body's giving, okay, I'm nervous about walking in this room, but wait a sec, I'm terrible at this. Like, I should probably push past that. this annoyance and frustration and vulnerability is the table stakes that is the price of community and that is built into um it's not going to be frictionless and that's the actual the transcendent part because those frictions are going to bring out a different and better version of you and they're going to allow you to bring out a different and better version of other people that you are terrible at predicting that you can that you can't imagine would happen and so there is this faith that is at the core of a lot of these flourishing communities.

32:24It's like this faith in other people in themselves. Like I can get through this. I can walk through this door and be comfortable and faith that when I do, other people are going to meet me and it's, it's kind of going to be good. And, and the funny thing is that they're right. It's actually, it seems like a leap of faith, but in fact, it's super logical. Like this is how we evolved. You know, we evolved meeting strangers and navigating and forming community. And so when we get in positions when we're doing that. We're just doing what got us here. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right.

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33:49Johnny:Exclusions apply to HomeDepot.com slash price match for details. Does feel with notifications, tech, and the amount of responsibility and pressure we put on ourselves to achieve that life is speeding up. That we have to be busy. We have to be doing stuff. And if we're not doing stuff, we're falling behind. But actually, there's an argument for stillness and slowing down. And when you think about these communities that are flourishing, they actually make time to do nothing, to not find the busy work, to not seek the to do list. And something you call awakening cues, where you can actually be more receptive to this connective attention in moments of stillness, which feel so fleeting and hard for us to find right now in our lives.

34:33Johnny:And we think about our calendar, the next meeting and what's dinging on our phone. That's what I saw in these places. is they were all really good at responsive stillness, at creating things. And to do that, a lot of them used what we would think of as ritual, right? Ritual is something that has no logical cause and effect. Like, I'm gonna light this candle every day when I come to my writing desk. Does that candle make me write better? Like, absolutely not. Like, it doesn't. In fact, it could light my house on fire. So it's probably a terrible idea to light a candle logically, but ritual ain't about logic.

35:06it's about suspending logical rules and saying wait in this space weird stuff is happening in this space i i surrender in this space i'm giving up logic in order to connect and so that's what i see people doing in their in their everyday lives to ground themselves i sort of think of them as grounding practices right where it's like what do i get by suspending logic because Our instinct is if I suspend logic, I'll be just, I'll be clueless. I'll be floating around. I won't, I won't keep up. I'll lose my space if I don't. But in fact, when you let go, you get clarity. You get that rootedness. It's a grounding practice to say, wait a second, before every morning I'm going to get up and there's a guy at Harvard Divinity School, actually, who developed this little, little ritual when he's brushing his teeth.

35:59he sort of has this mantra which is like every day contains joy and suffering and this day is no different he just says those words to himself takes 10 seconds but what does that do it's like it it sort of gets you out of that that that lego building narrow focus flow and allows you to wait a minute is and it it frames how you do your whole day or julia cameron i know if morning pages has come into your guy's world. But getting up in the morning, this is Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist's Way, which is just a totally brilliant concept. What you do is you just scribble three pages, whatever's in your brain, just go.

36:38It feels like you're wasting time. Like it feels crazy to do. But if you make a practice of that, if you ground yourself, let go, get some presence, you'll find that that grounds you, that opens things up and lets you pay attention to what really matters. I'm a big fan of ritual because it allows your emotions to set the stage for the things to happen. Perfect. That takes time. We can't just turn on our AI and go. Our body has to let go of other things and set up for new things. That's 10, 15 minutes. Just think about you in the morning. What does it take for you to wake up to go to work? A couple cups of coffee, some steps, get your head together, read a little bit of news, get your head working in the modern day, and then you're all fired up.

37:38If you're going to go from I'm working, now I'm going to go to my creative part of the day, which is one of the things that I have to do. There's mood lighting. There's some music. there's a lot of things that have to happen and in order to get in that properly to get in that space. We're not machines. I mean, that's what, that's what I hear you saying. It's like, we ain't machines. You can't flip us on. We're living things. And ritual is like that moment of nurture that moment of pause that lets you, you know, take a breath, inhale. And that's, that's what I, that's what I see in these places that I visited, you know, for the book is like, they're really good at that, at ritual as a way of like, wait let's inhale let's see what this is about and then that gives them energy to do cool messy stuff together that that creates community it's it's they're not like execute the plan sort of stuff it's much more like okay let's connect let's let's sort of have that pause so it ends up having like a rhythm to it and i think we feel that when we're around flourishing places it's like there's this rhythm where people are pausing creating meaning and then and then exploring together and creating something new.

38:44Johnny:For probably some of our listeners, they're saying, okay, this sounds a bit woo. I understand communities, neighborhoods, but I'm really career focused. And this isn't, flourishing is not just in Paris. In fact, you talk about Building 20 at MIT and the Magical Incubator, where people came together to create incredible things and flourish in their career. What was the secret sauce there? What's the backstory? building 20 was was this crazy little warehouse that had it it was built during the war it was built to be torn down but uh it was right next to the mit campus so a lot of random it's like coral reef if you didn't have an office in the regular department you washed up there and then brilliant inventions a lot of engineers ended up there and then all of a sudden it's like wait a minute what happened that that building mit building 20 started the invention of video games was there the black hole core black hole research was there the first soundproof chamber was there.

39:40Noam Chomsky invented Lincoln. I think 11 Nobel Prizes have come out of that building. And it was completely chaos. But why is that? And the answer is, well, they were able to form the core structures, the core constraints of community there. And those core things are, there's a lot of collisions. Everybody's smooshed together in this space. It has to cooperate. There's a clear horizon of creating something incredible, something beautiful. And there's a high degree of agency. Nobody in there was obedient. If you had to create a new office, you got out your skill saw and you cut a hole in the wall and built an office.

40:18They had this, their coffee area, they served dog biscuits. They couldn't get anything. So they tasted dog biscuits. They're like, oh, these aren't so bad. So they had a ritual of everybody having a coffee and a dog biscuit. This incredible mixing, it turned into this like super rich stew of brilliant people that ended up creating, I think they created Bose, came out of there, both speakers. And it was, it was not because they executed a plan. It wasn't because they woke up in the morning and got super organized. It was because they had the conditions for an ecosystem, a community to form, which was high collision, narrow horizon, and then high agency.

40:55And so for people working, it's less about telling people what to do, less about steering the ship, less about individual and more about how can we create the conditions where we can build a team that can function with high agency, high degree of seeing a clear horizon and clear constraints that we can explore together.

41:18Johnny:And that collision, right? I think so many of us right now, when we think about work and being productive, we don't want to collide with anyone. We want to put on our noise canceling headphones. We want to get in front of our laptop. We want to block out the world and we just want to singular focus on the task at hand. But it's actually in the collision that allows them to think outside of the box, to stretch themselves and to have those moments where maybe they're stuck and talk to someone in a completely different field and get unstuck through that conversation. The collision, I think, is the piece that so many of us miss.

41:52Johnny:I know offices try now these open floor plans to like force us into that. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about those moments outside of work where we're actually able to have those conversations around that cup of coffee. It used to be the water cooler for a lot of us who are going into offices. And now that does seem to be missing. It does feel like it's missing. Right. And the food thing is really central to it, too. I know, you know, when Pixar was building their headquarters, they put so much energy into saying we want we don't want our people leaving for lunch.

42:22We really want people gathered here and talking over food. And That core act, that norm is incredibly powerful. And I think smart businesses do it. IDEO, I don't know if you know IDEO, a brilliant design firm. They have an office in San Francisco. The bell rings at like same time every day, three o 'clock, it's tea break. Everybody, whatever you're doing, whatever you're doing, come and have a cup of tea. Like boom, simple norms that people are setting up that seem a little coercive and kind of annoying. Like if I'm really working on my project, do I really want to have chamomile right now? but understanding and creating a culture and creating a community where that, that annoying norm is actually kind of a doorway to more collision.

43:06And in all these groups, understanding that all these groups in the end are like noodles in the pot, right? Like they're, they're, they're colliding together in this same space with a lot of energy and business in the end, like all these jobs are not, especially in this age we're living in now where knowledge and answers are as cheap as tap water, right? You can get the answer. They're not, it's, it's, it's really about creating cohesion, energy, and like living into questions, figuring what the question is and, and creating cohesion and energy around that. And that you can't do if everyone is like by themselves in a satellite with headphones on, like it is, it is a cohesion and energy contest to succeed in business now.

43:47And, and that's, I think one of the lessons that the flourishing groups have for us. It's like two plus two can equal 10, but you've got to get the two plus two interacting with the right level of cohesion and energy for that to happen.

44:01Johnny:What feels counterintuitive is the messiness of it. Yeah. Like flourishing is not orderly. And we have to understand that those collisions might have a cost to our immediate productivity, but long-term they allow for the magical leaps where we can build something greater than what the task was at hand that we were trying to noise cancel our way out of. And the smart leaders are designing messes. They're designing for messes. Like they'll have what's known as like a 30-70 meeting where it's like, okay, 30 % we're going to figure out what the question is. But the rest of the 70, I don't know. We'll talk about whatever we talk about.

44:39There's the all blacks rugby team in New Zealand, very high performing team. They've got a week of practice where the players run it. The coaches step back, players run the practice. Is that the best way to run practice? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But does that create agency? Like, does that create group flow? Does that create ownership? Does that create cohesion and energy? You're not trying to be orderly. You're not trying, you're not, because you're not a machine. Machines are orderly. What we're trying to do is create life. We're trying to create energy and cohesion. And so messiness is not the barrier.

45:13Like, it's the doorway. So the question to leaders is not like, how do I make this neat and clean? It's like, how do I create the right kind of mess that moves in the right direction? I don't know what's exactly gonna happen, but we gotta move this thing in the right direction.

45:27Johnny:Well, let's talk about the rule of surprise because that's another key component that I have found really fascinating in the book. And I think many of us have those moments in our life where we've been surprised and created delight and became memorable, but we might not be so good at creating them ourselves or thinking about their impact for others. It's what I saw over and over again in the flourishing communities when you ask them, oh, how did you guys do that? Like, how did that happen? How did this little NGO in Nairobi create this incredible water program for all the residents of this settlement?

46:01Or how did that invention happen in Building 20? And most of the time, the answer is like, we don't know. Like, it wasn't my idea and it wasn't your idea and it wasn't their idea, but it was kind of all of us together and somebody said something. And, and so I think the, the rule of surprise is that if you know what's going to happen, you're not doing it right. Like if you have a super clear, it's not bad to have a vision, a direction, a horizon, but if you have a super clear outcome that you have in mind and that outcome is the only measure of success, you're not doing it right. Living things will surprise you, then that's because it's messy.

46:41And so seeing and being ready for that surprise and creating space for that surprise when it does happen ends up being a really powerful thing. And one tool, it's not, the surprises usually happen because we're human beings, but one tool for kind of recognizing those surprises is an AAR, like an after action review, which is right after you do something as a group, right after this podcast, you guys would get on and you'd say, okay, what went well? What went differently than we expected? And what should we think about for next time? Like, it's a really quick meeting, but it's a way to kind of create a group mind and, and talk about, oh, that was really weird that we did, you know, we did something differently this time.

47:23What, what does that mean? You know, it's sort of an AAR lets you kind of step back and see. And another, if we're talking about tools to create surprise, another counterintuitive one is, is called the via negativa, fancy Latin, but it's basically like the negative way, like what you don't want to do. So the best way to get a group to just kind of get messy and get a surprise is to really clearly say what it shouldn't do. If you want to create a good day, just have a really clear idea of what your day should not look like, and then just move in that other direction and see what happens. So that ends up being a way of creating a constraint, really a guardrail for yourself to where I want to try a lot of stuff, bump into guardrails and see what emerges.

48:10Johnny:What stood out to me on the AAR is that ability to combine perspectives. So often we get focused on our own perspective, our own takeaways, and then we move on to the next thing. But when we actually bring people together to then share those perspectives, you start to see things from different angles. And that surprise appears in areas that you weren't even thinking about or focused on. It's so true, right? We're all kind of locked into our own way of seeing things. And a great way to sort of make that perspective even more vivid is to, when you do an AAR, have the least powerful person talk first.

48:47Like, don't make the leader, when the leader, like, this is what I saw, you know, right? It ends up having this, you know, we're all hierarchical by nature. It ends up diminishing people's willingness to speak out. But if you have it led and facilitated by a less powerful person, you end up kind of bringing out more perspectives.

49:05Johnny:When people think of writing, they think of going into your own little world, sitting in front of pen to paper, gathering all your thoughts. And I know you did a lot of research tapping into these flourishing communities, but I'd love to hear what you're taking away from this project and how it's changed the way that you approach writing in your own life. You're nailing me here. Yeah. I got a tendency to get obsessed with projects and spend a lot of time at the desk and just kind of go in. But over and over again, this book, especially the idea of yellow doors, like that was the one that ended up like kind of changing my life after this.

49:39Whereas I, you know, can be pretty narrow focused on a project, but I kept visiting these places that were sending me on side quests and leading to new things. And this idea that keeping an eye out for opportunities that are kind of out of the corner of your eye. And I got one a couple of years ago, a friend of mine had recently got divorced and he was like, I want to go indoor climbing. I want to get a group of guys and go indoor climbing. Like I'm by myself in this house. I want to, I want to get out and, and I don't like indoor climbing. Like I've done it a couple of times. It totally sucks.

50:12Like you have to wear those stupid shoes and your hands hurt and it's, it's finicky and persnickety and snobbish. Um, but I was like yellow door, I guess I should try it. And so I did. And then I went again and then I went again. It turns out my perspective was wrong. And now these, you know, six other guys that I go climbing with, we just came back from a ski trip. We play music together. Our families are friends. We, you know, they've turned into this rich community of what I think a lot of dudes my age are hungry. I was craving that. I was craving guys to hang out with and that it wasn't work, you know, that was just sort of neighborhood thing.

50:52And so without that yellow door, I don't think that happens. I think I'm just like, boop, on my little trip. So I'm grateful for that. But it was right there all the time waiting for me. I didn't do anything special. All I did was endure some discomfort and do this sport that I thought I didn't like. And it turned out I was wrong.

51:11Johnny:So for those of the audience who maybe their yellow door has some fear to it, right? Like maybe it's that activity that's like, well, I'm afraid I'm going to fail or, you know, it's really coming up against something that we know internally we're afraid of. What do we say to that person to actually try that yellow door? They're correct. It is fair and it should actually. That's sort of a form. It's energy, right? That's scary for a reason. And it's almost like swim lessons. Like the best swimming advice you can give somebody is not like try harder, but say like the water will hold you up. Like the water will hold you up.

51:49Don't worry. Like it is, but you have to, you have to do it. You have to live your way into it. And you have to endure that, that pain. And we've been kind of trained on the fact that friction is, you know, there's a lot of these big economies that are out there. that are based on not just keeping us isolated and alone, but in persuading us that friction is bad. But these moments of friction where you feel vulnerable and you feel scared end up leading to places that you aren't. It ends up teaching you that you can get through that stuff. And, you know, it's learning and it's resilience and it's all that good human stuff.

52:33But, you know, all of our ancestors got here by going through those doors. And if you were to draw, take a pen and a paper and draw a picture of your life, like where did it start and where did it take you and where did you go? I would then count the yellow doors, like count how many times you went through something that maybe you were scared of or that you got blocked somewhere and failed and then had to try something else. result, they're already there. You've already done it. So that's another, I think, a reason not to let that fear get the most of you because you've gotten this far by doing that.

53:09Johnny:As we wrap, I know, and this is something that we always share with our clients, the importance of not waiting for that flourishing community to appear. What we've talked about, this group flow, recognizing we have to be present. I think at our hearts, we know that to be true, but I think a lot of us spend time waiting to be invited into that flourishing community, to get the invite to go climbing, to get the invite to Poker Night, to hope that we can find it. And I think many of us, if we just took more agency and building it ourselves, we would actually find that people are open and willing to join us in that and we can create it.

53:48Johnny:We don't have to wait for it. So what do you say to those in our audience who are waiting for that flourishing instead of creating that flourishing in their life? community is a verb. Like it's not a noun. We think of it as a noun. It's actually a verb. It's actually a set of actions. It's the 30 feet around you right now, all the time. That's community. So having some habit where daily you reach out to somebody in your community and just say, let's get a cup of coffee or just say, just was thinking about you. It could be as small as tiny, tiny, tiny reach outs. Little is big. Little things are big.

54:18And the other thing I would say, the other theme is that stupid is smart. Like when it comes to community, doing stupid gatherings where we're going to, we're going to have this, this, you know, this standing dinner with my friends. We're going to just do, we're just going to eat every, we're going to eat appetizers every Tuesday from just have, have a thing, trust in that. Um, and I guess the other, the other theme would, well, I guess we're looking for small things to actually do. Um, Um, so I think, I think that, um, I think of it as that one envelope rule almost, you know, we talked about Kurt Vonnegut, like get the one envelope, don't buy the 50, take the time to get, to get the one.

55:02Um, and I guess the other thing is do a visioning exercise, like take a second and just scribble what you want your life to look like. And, and another prompt might be to think about where you're feeling community already in your life. Like it might be just at a Trader Joe's chatting with a checkout person, but taking time to reflect and see where is it happening now? And what's one tiny thing that I could do to get a little more of that? But it's all little, you'll find it's all little stuff.

55:27Johnny:For me, I think the modern day version of that one envelope is deleting the delivery apps and actually going and getting your groceries and going and getting the takeout and going and getting something. So much of modern life now is just deliver it to me. I don't even have to answer the door when the food comes. I don't have to interact with anyone. I'm on the app, I'm off the app, my food's here. And yeah, it feels convenient and you can be productive, but you really are robbing yourself of that petting the dog, making funny faces at the baby on your way to get the one envelope, on your way to get your apples for the week.

55:59Johnny:Right on. I love that. Thank you so much for joining us. I think this was chock full of so many great ways that we can tap into that flourishing in our own lives and start to create community that I think we all know we want and need. Where can our audience find out more about the book? DanielCoyle.com is a good place to start. Thank you for joining us. Hey, thanks, AJ. Thanks, John. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

56:29Thank you for joining us for another fantastic episode of the Art of Charm podcast. This is the part where we celebrate one of our X Factor members. Take it away, Clint. This is Clint, and I'm in capital sales, and I'm a former X Factor student. I joined X Factor because I felt I needed more personal and professional growth. I considered myself successful in my career, but when it came to having conversations with customers, I felt I wasn't building relationships to their full potential. I then started noticing I was having similar shortfalls in personal relationships. Additionally, I felt a confidence void in certain situations and I was hoping I could improve on that as well.

57:12Through the work I did at X Factor and the core confidence course, I was able to improve on both of these areas of my life. And since completing the X Factor, I've transitioned to a new position and the skills learned helped me securing an approximate 30 % increase in pay. So to any guy who considers himself a driven individual, but feels he's not quite achieving all he thinks is possible in his current situation, I'd say look hard at joining X Factor. It sure did great things for me. Thank you, Clint. It was a pleasure and an honor working with you too, sir. And good luck to all of your future endeavors.

57:53If you found value out of this or any of our podcasts, head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. It means the world to us and it helps others find the show. Now everyone, go out there and have a very epic week.

58:31I'm black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you

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