In short
Podcast Summary: The Art of Charm - The Truth About Your Happiness and How To Boost It
Episode Overview In this episode, Johnny and AJ discuss happiness with four leading experts in the field: Arthur C. Brooks, Dr. Robert Waldinger, Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar, and Christoph Schnedlitz. The conversation explores the factors that contribute to happiness, the role of relationships, the influence of social media, and strategies for fostering sustainable happiness.
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Key Discussions
- Introduction (0:00)
- Introduction of the topic and experts.
- Overview of the importance of happiness and its complexities.
- Building Happiness (3:50)
- Key Question for Happiness: What simple question can you ask yourself to build life-changing happiness?
- Focusing on daily positives can train your brain to recognize happiness.
- Success Addiction (12:00)
- Understanding Success Addiction: The pursuit of success can lead to a cycle of addiction similar to substance abuse, driven by dopamine rewards.
- Breaking the Cycle: Recognizing this addiction is essential for achieving true happiness beyond material success.
- Harvard Happiness Study (14:24)
- Overview: Insights from the long-term Harvard Study of Adult Development which shows that strong relationships are a key indicator of happiness and health.
- Importance of Social Connections: Good relationships contribute to both happiness and physical health.
- Social Media and Happiness (24:25)
- Impact of Social Media: Discusses the detrimental effects of social media on happiness, particularly among youth, with significant increases in mental health issues.
- Comparison Trap: Social media fosters unhealthy comparisons that can lead to dissatisfaction and depression.
- Relationships and Happiness (29:02)
- Influence of Relationships: How relationships shape our lifetime happiness?
- Maintaining Relationships: Strategies for nurturing and strengthening relationships.
- Happiness Myths: Common misconceptions about what brings happiness.
- The 3 Happiness Skills (40:35)
- Skills to Cultivate: Identifying and developing skills for resilient happiness.
- Role of Boredom: Discusses the importance of boredom in fostering creativity and happiness.
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Key Takeaways
- Happiness is Trainable: Happiness can be practiced and cultivated like a muscle, requiring consistent effort and mindset adjustments.
- Relationships Matter Most: The quality of our relationships is more important to our happiness than the quantity of achievements or material possessions.
- Beware of Social Media: Recognize the potential harmful effects of social media on self-esteem and happiness; focus on real-life connections.
- Cultivating Curiosity: Maintaining curiosity about our partners and friends is vital for sustaining long-term relationships and emotional connections.
- Embrace Boredom: Allowing oneself to be bored can lead to greater creativity and ideas.
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Expert Insights
Arthur C. Brooks
- Discusses the addiction of success and how it distracts from true happiness.
Dr. Robert Waldinger
- Highlights findings from the Harvard Study that show the significance of relationships to long-term happiness.
Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar
- Emphasizes the importance of listening, empathy, and leading by example in fostering meaningful relationships.
Christoph Schnedlitz
- Advocates for practices like gratitude journaling to shift focus towards positive experiences, enhancing overall happiness.
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Conclusion In this episode of The Art of Charm, the insights shared by the experts provide a roadmap to understanding and enhancing happiness in daily life. By focusing on relationships, being mindful of the impacts of social media, cultivating happiness skills, and recognizing the importance of consistent effort, listeners can take actionable steps toward a more fulfilling and happy life.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Holiday season, travel, gifts, hosting, it's easy to lose sight of your money this time of year. I saw all the travel and gift expenses adding up and it was a wake-up call. Made me stop and adjust my spending before the credit card bill arrived. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch. Rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025, Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or your phone. And right now, just for our listeners, Monarch is offering 50 % off your first year.
0:32I'm checking my holiday spending category to make sure I don't start the new year with a debt hangover. You can link everything. Investments, 401ks, property value. Get your true net worth and stay on top of your year-end priorities. Monarch does the heavy lifting. Link all of your accounts in minutes. Clear data visuals, smart categorization. You'll never touch another spreadsheet again. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use code CHARM at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50 % off your first year at Monarch.com with code CHARM.
1:29they handle at the ideal moment. I love to add tasks by typing, talking, or even using my camera. Stuff is built to intake information quickly in whatever form you think in and turn it into actionable tasks right away. Lists and Stuff are built like completable projects. So that book you wanna write, that business you wanna start, or that trip you wanna plan starts to take form inside Stuff, step by step. The magic is it gets exponentially more powerful the more you feed into it. Download Stuff today. Start brain dumping and organizing your tasks and feel the freedom of an uncluttered brain. Download stuff for free today by going to trystuff.app.
2:07That's T-R-Y-S-T-U-F-F dot A-P-P. Or simply by searching stuff, S-T-U-F-F in the app store and to enjoy everything stuff has to offer. You can get 50 % off your first year of extra stuff by using code charm at checkout. Get stuff done and start closing your open loops. Download stuff from the App Store today. Johnny and AJ here. How well can you influence people and actually make them like you even more? If you struggle with this skill, it can make building relationships and growing your social capital painfully slow. Listen, your influence is the key to developing meaningful relationships and breaking through in your career to be seen as a charismatic leader.
2:52Now, after coaching over 10 ,000 clients on how to master social confidence, we've learned a thing or two about what it actually takes to grow your influence. Are you curious about your influence level? Take our 60-second quiz to find out how your influence stacks up against top performers at theartofcharm.com slash influence. Remember, you can do something about your influence. Take our short quiz and learn your influence index score instantly at theartofcharm.com slash influence. Johnny and AJ here. Are you ready to take your career to the next level in 2023? Looking to grow your high value social circle?
3:32You are one relationship away from changing your entire life. Your social circle, professional network, and lack of confidence are thwarting your attempts at accelerating your career. But there's something you can do about it. After coaching over 10 ,000 clients, including military special operators and Fortune 500 executives, we've learned a thing or two about what it actually takes to grow your network. In fact, over 90 % of the amazing guests on this show are from referrals in our own personal networks. We've packaged our best insights inside a course called Social Capital. And as a thank you for being a podcast listener, we want to give you this training for free to start your new year.
4:14Inside Social Capital, you'll get three resources to help you grow your network or social circle with simple, actionable tips to fill your inbox with connections and phone with messages to hang out. These resources include our famous social capital formula, a simple strategy that you can use to grow your high-value network daily. Your network is your true net worth. To get your hands on this training and immediately start improving your relationships, go to theartofcharm.com slash sc. That's theartofcharm.com slash SC. Remember, you can do something to change your career trajectory and instantly grow your social capital today at theartofcharm.com slash SC.
5:02Welcome to the Art of Charm podcast, where we break down the science of powerful communication and winning mindsets so you have the cheat code to succeed with people. Every episode is jam-packed with actionable steps to unlock the hidden superpowers inside of you. Level up with us each week by listening to interviews with the best in business, psychology, and relationships. We distill thousands of hours of research into the most effective tools and the latest science so you can start winning today. Let's face it. In order to be seen and heard, your communication needs to cut through the noise.
5:32And we're going to show you how. I'm AJ, successfully recovered introvert, entrepreneur, and self-development junkie. And I'm Johnny Zubak, former touring musician, promoter, rock and roller, and co-founder here at The Art of Charm. And for the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of top performers and teams from every background. We have dedicated our lives to teaching men and women all they need to know about communication, networking, and relationships. You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary.
6:03All right, let's kick off today's show. We have a compilation of handpicked advice from some of the world's experts on the secrets to lasting happiness. As we've learned from our guests over the years, happiness is a topic that is fraught with misconceptions, misunderstandings, and myths that are often perpetrated by the media and culture. So let's hear what four of the world's leading experts on happiness had to say on the matter. Featuring Arthur C. Brooks, a renowned social scientist, author, and professor. He serves as a professor at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and the Harvard Business School.
6:33He is also the host of the podcast, The Art of Happiness with Arthur Brooks. We had Arthur on our podcast in February 2020, discussing the four disciplines that lead to happiness and meaning. We also have Dr. Robert Waldinger. Waldinger directs the Harvard Study of Adult Development, one of the longest running studies of adult life ever done. That's a study we often refer to on the show, so it's great to talk with the director himself. We had Dr. Waldinger on the show in January of this year to discuss the Harvard Happiness Study and what it takes to be socially fit. Also, Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar. Dr.
7:05Ben-Shahar is a best-selling author and lecturer. He's taught two of the largest classes in Harvard University's history, positive psychology, and the psychology of leadership. Tal is a serial entrepreneur and is most recently the co-founder and chief learning officer of the Happiness Studies Academy. We had Dr. Ben Shahar on the show in February 2021 to discuss the secret to being happy in the modern world and three tips to conquer screen addiction. And to round out the academics in Harvard, we also brought in an entrepreneur from Austria, Christoph Schneidlitz. He developed an application to help people appreciate the small moments of happiness in their daily lives.
7:39The application leverages principles from positive psychology to enhance users' well-being. And our January 2019 interview with Christoph is titled, Train Your Happy. Before we take a deep dive into the science around happiness and how you can start building it, let's set this up with a fascinating study that we discussed with Christoph Schneedlitz about the difference between happy and unhappy people. Our intuition says that there must be a difference between happy and unhappy people in terms of what they experience in their lives. we assume that happy people have a lot of happy things happening to them they're going going to get invited to weddings they get these promotions these things and unhappy people they're just unlucky right you have a lot of you know funerals to attend instead of weddings and a lot of misery happens in your life and bad health and what that study that you just um pointed out it was a very fascinating finding that there was no difference in the amount of good and bad life events in either of these groups, happy and unhappy people, had the same amount of good and bad things happening to them.
8:42The difference was just how these individuals, these two groups viewed these things, where they put their mind to. So really focusing on good things is kind of like how you can kickstart your own happiness. Some people have that naturally. I certainly didn't a couple of years ago when I started that journey towards happiness. And so I had to learn it. And for all those people who were with me who don't have that inborn quality to look at the good thing, to look at the bright side, that's why we built High Moment 4, right? And understanding this is crucial. In our July Toolbox episode, we talked about building charisma and how important optimism is.
9:22So not only does it make you more charismatic, but it also makes you happier. So let's dig into this. Let's look at happiness, what it is, and what we need to understand in order to build it. Christoph explains his startup's approach to build happiness for their users. It's one of the most empowering messages there is that happiness is not a destiny. It's a muscle that you can train, just like your body. If you want to train your body, what do you need? You need consistent practice. And it's the same with happiness. You will not get happier because you had your wedding. You will not get happier when you have an amazing career breakthrough.
9:56happiness requires work. It requires you to exercise. And you can do that. And it is possible for you to train your happiness. About 40 % of it is actually down to our habits and down to our mindset. And we can train it effectively. Now, there's many paths to happiness. The one that we are choosing is called Savoring or Gratitude Journal. And it's actually very simple to get into, it only takes you around five minutes a day and answering one question. And that's, what's the best thing that happened to you today? That's super, super simple, but some people struggle to get into this. But what this does to your brain when you frequently ask yourself that question, that over the days you will notice that your mind starts to focus on the small good things that happen in your life.
10:45And that's exactly what's required for you to change your perspective, Right. So over time, you will not only notice one good thing happening to you, you'll notice five or ten. And that's when you really know, oh, my God, this is really working. And as far as studies show that this can actually improve your happiness by up to 25 percent in just a month. That's actually quite simple to answer. If we use the muscle analogy, right? If you're going to an event where they do weightlifting and you watch that once, Does that going to make you an athlete and does it going to train your muscle? No, right?
11:19If you miraculously take that barbell and lift it up, that really heavy one, once, does this train your muscle in the long term? No, it doesn't, right? So these events, these big life events are going to be great for you. Your wedding is going to be fine. Your promotion, that's going to be great. But it doesn't change the fact that in order to become happier, to practice happiness, you got to be consistent. So it's better to have one small moment a day than having a big moment once a year. And it makes sense when you just use the training metaphor. And something else there is all those things, all those events, they're not the end.
12:01They're the beginning, right? So a marriage is a new chapter. It's a new story. Getting the promotion you always wanted is a new chapter in your life. It begins a new story. It's not the end. It's the beginning. Yeah, what I found so fascinating is that when they look at Olympic athletes, they look at the gold medal winner, the silver medal winner, and the bronze medal winner. The bronze is actually the happiest because the bronze can look at the perspective of, hey, I've made it to the podium. The silver is beating himself up because he didn't reach gold. And gold is thinking, where do I go from here?
12:37The journey's just begun. So we're always forward looking. Absolutely. It's so right. This is what we see with gold medalists. Many report that feeling of emptiness after they have achieved that goal. Because here comes another truth pill, I would say, that success doesn't make us happier. We know it's the other way around. If you're happy, you're going to be successful. But success does not automatically make you happier. If you chase after promotions for the sake of the promotion, or for the sake of a number increasing on your bank account, or for medals, awards, and these things, They are not going to make you happier, right?
13:14That's just not happening. You're going to get there, and then you're going to have the question in your head, and now what, right? We see this, for example, with step counter apps, right? And these are cool because they get people to move around, and then they reach 10 ,000 steps, and now what? You have a brief moment of satisfaction, and then you want it up to 11 ,000 steps, 12 ,000 steps, and something like that. So quantifying things doesn't make us happier. These big life moments and these achievements, they don't. What does make you happier is when you enjoy the process of becoming the best version of yourself.
13:50And if this includes a promotion, then amazing. We now understand that as a muscle, we need to learn and train. And the more practice we get, the better we are at flexing it. Christoph also explains how important learning and growth is, especially if you're in the first half of your life. Because when we look deep down into the brain, what happiness is, then at the end of the day, it's a reward for learning something new. It's not an end to itself. It's a reward for learning. So the minute you stop growing is the minute you stop becoming happier. Well, I think that's why with youth, it's easy to be happy because you're just physically just growing.
14:33That is just a part of it. But that's going to stop at some point. and you have to find unique and other ways to continue that growth or everything starts to start shutting down. Your happiness gets to start and we get more and more depleted and you become more and more upset. You're looking around and you start to see that each day, if you're unable to grow, is only going to continue. It gets worse. I just wanted to say that you're absolutely right about the youth thing. When we look at happiness by age, we can see a U-bend curve of happiness, which means your happiness is high when you're young and it's declining and reaches its lowest point around the age of 55, something around that, and goes back up from there.
15:17The good news is that we'll find the highest level of happiness usually during old age. So there's a way out from there for all of those people who are just stuck in that valley of tears right now. But certainly you don't have to wait until you're older to make some changes in your life and to start building some positive habits about your happiness. This is a common theme with our X Factor members. Every one of them love learning, exploring, and growing. As an adult, it's difficult to challenge yourself every day, and having accountability, responsibility, and support will compel, inspire, and challenge you to strive to be your best.
15:57This is why our members are enjoying their success. And while we're talking about success, as Arthur Brooks in our interview with him explains, success is actually an addiction. And it can happen faster than you think. So success addiction is like any other addiction. It implicates the dopaminergic pathways in our brains. And dopamine, as everybody knows at this point, because of the wonderful books that have come out by Anna Lemke at Stanford and a bunch of really important books, and you guys have talked about it on your show, that dopamine is implicated in all addictive processes. And it's basically it lights up your reward circuit.
16:32So you do something, you like it, you get the little hit, you get the little success hit, and that gives you a little bit of dopamine. That might be a line of Coke. It might be smoking a cigarette. It might be playing bingo. I don't know. But when you're really going to get it is when somebody is like, you're really great at your job. Here's a raise. Here's a promotion. Here's an acceptance into the Harvard Business School or whatever. I mean, those things give just big, big dopamine hits. And they say, I'm coming back for more. And so what people do is that they habitually get used to wanting a new hit.
17:05I mean, just wanting the, you know, the monkey who wants the banana again and again. Boom, boom, boom, boom. The trouble is you can't keep any satisfaction from that. And because Mother Nature wants you coming back for more. Mother Nature loves that hedonic treadmill, wants you running on it like a, you know, it's like an animal. Like, keep running, man. Keep running, man. And so that, the success addiction is not, you know, has no indictment of capitalism. capitalism is awesome it can happen in any any situation where you know even at i mean the most selfish self-absorbed people have ever met or in socialist systems where they you know grab all the goodies and i mean this is a human problem not even an economic problem and so you hit it you hit the lever you hit the lever you hit the lever again and again and again until all you know how to do to the exclusion of your relationships to the exclusion of your interests to your the exclusion of your, the education and the cultivation of your, your moral capacities is all sacrificed on the altar of success because you got to hit the lever again and again.
18:03And since he was mentioning relationships, we really can't talk about happiness without talking about the relationships that we have. They play an important role. And if not the most important role of our lives, if you are a longtime listener and And you've heard AJ and myself often refer to the famous Harvard study that came to exactly that conclusion. So it was a tremendous honor for us to have the director of that very study, Dr. Robert Waldinger, on the show in January, 2023. Listen to him explain the study and its findings. So let me tell you about the study. It started in 1938, and it started actually as two separate studies that didn't even know about each other.
18:45One was a study of Harvard undergraduates, 19-year-old sophomores, who were chosen by their deans as being fine, upstanding young men. But half of them were on scholarship, had to work at least part of their way through school. So mostly middle, some upper middle class families, not so many wealthy people, but still obviously a privileged group. That was one third, 268 young men. The other study was started at Harvard Law School by Sheldon Gluck and his wife, Eleanor Gluck, who were studying juvenile delinquency. And they were studying why children from some of the most troubled and disadvantaged families managed to stay on reasonably good developmental paths, right?
19:37So they were studying why some kids managed not to become juvenile delinquents, even though they were born with so much against them. Those were not just the poorest kids, but the kids whose families were so troubled that they were known to, on average, five social service agencies for domestic violence, alcoholism, severe mental illness. I mean, so we're not talking privileged here. More than half of them were from immigrant families. So I just want to clear that up because it's really important that two thirds of these kids were actually among the poorest and the most troubled of the population of Boston in 1938.
20:19And then since then, so they were all men, right? But then we brought in first the spouses of our first generation and then all the children are more than half women. So now we have more than half of our study subjects are women. And it's still ongoing, correct? Yeah. We're collecting data even as we speak. Yeah. So I think that's a huge takeaway because as it gets talked about in pop culture, it's easy to write it off for those exact reasons that we talked about. But it's a longitudinal study. So how is this different than most studies that we think about when we think about social sciences? That's what's so rare about it.
20:57Most studies of human life are snapshots where we ask people to remember the past or we test them at a moment in their lives. Um, what's really different is to, to study the same people over and over again, year after year, after year as they go through their whole lives from, you know, teenage years into their nineties, a few are still are over a hundred. I mean, so to follow people for this long is absolutely unheard of. And it means that you get to see how life progresses. You get to see like how, how intimate relationships go up and down in their satisfaction. You get to see how happiness varies depending on whether your kids are living at home or they're launched.
21:40There's so many things that change, that morph and change in our lives. And that's what this study lets us do. One of the biggest surprises for us was that relationships keep us healthier. It made sense that it keeps us happier, good relationships, more happiness, sure. But how could good relationships make it less likely that you would get coronary artery disease? How could that happen? Or less likely that you would get type 2 diabetes? How could that be a thing? And so this next frontier, well, it's a current frontier, is we're studying how that works. Like how do relationships actually change our physiology, change our bodies?
22:22So we're looking a lot at stress and stress management. And one of the things we're getting pretty clear on is that good relationships are stress managers for us. You can sort of see that. Like if I have something upsetting happen in my day and I can like churn about it and ruminate about it. You know, if I go home and I talk to my wife or I can call up a friend and I can really vent, I can literally feel my body calm down. And we think that that's a lot of how this works, actually, that good relationships return our bodies to a kind of baseline equilibrium after we've been stressed. And since stress is a normal part of life, we want those stress regulators in our lives.
23:11Here's where Dr. Waldiger expands on what Christoph had explained earlier, that this is something that needs continuous exercise. He actually calls it social fitness. We thought about this as social fitness because it seems analogous to physical fitness. You know, like if I go to the gym today and work out, I don't come home and say, good, I'm done. I never have to do that again, right? Like physical fitness is an ongoing practice and we all kind to get that. Whether we do it or not, whether we practice it or not, we know that's what would be best for our bodies. And what we realized was that as we looked at these lives, we saw many people's social worlds start to shrink, not because there was anything wrong and not because they had bad relationships, but because they neglected their relationships.
24:01And what we saw was that many perfectly good relationships just wither away from neglect. So we said, okay, what if it's like exercising muscles, you know, exercising your social muscles? And then your question is, well, how do you do that? Well, I suppose the first thing would be to check in with yourself and say, what am I getting from my relationships? And we get different things, right? So we get fun, We get like someone to confide in. We get like my neighbor who always has the right tool for the thing I'm trying to fix. And I don't have any good tools. And, you know, like you get people who help you in different ways.
24:41And so think about what do you have in your life? What would you like more of? And could you get that either by livening up a relationship you already have or reaching out to some new people? So I think that then what we can do is say, well, who might I like to either strengthen a relationship with or reach out to anew? And this is where what we talk about in the book are these little tiny choices you can make to do this. Like, okay, so right now, after people are listening to this podcast, you could think, okay, who do I miss? Who would I like to touch base with? You could just send them a little text saying, just thinking of you and wanted to say hi.
25:29And if you do that, you will more likely than not get something back. And probably it's going to be somebody's reaction where you see that you've made somebody happy. You have made them want to connect more with you again, right? You're going to see that this little choice you can make now is going to have ripple effects. And that's what we keep noticing when we talk with lots of people, we test this with lots of people, and it really makes a difference to take these small, intentional steps to make our relationships better. Actually, the universe is conspiring to keep us isolated. So these screens that we love so much, myself included, are designed to hold our attention, to capture it, to hold it, to keep us on our screens, not let us alone to be with each other in the real world, right?
26:22Because attention is the commodity that they're after. The difficulty now is that the path of least resistance is to stay isolated. That's the path of least resistance, and it requires being more intentional. And then, you know, as you're saying, Johnny, like, what do you do when your gut is saying, I don't want to do this. You know, I don't really want to go to that networking event or that party. And that's where we can kind of check in with ourselves. Like one of my friends was telling me yesterday, he said, you know, I realized that when I actually let my partner drag me to a party, I end up feeling better.
27:00But my first reaction is, no, I don't want to go. And they did a study of this where they studied people who were about to take the subway in New York. And they randomly assigned them to, you read about this, AJ, but they randomly assigned people to either you're going to do what you normally do, which is like listen to music, stay on your, stay, keep to yourself, or you are randomly assigned to talk to a stranger. And they ask people, how much do you think you're going to enjoy this assignment we've given you? And the people who were going to have to talk to strangers thought they were going to be much less happy afterwards than the people who could just do their own thing.
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27:39Then they asked people after they completed their assignments, the people who talked to strangers were way happier than the people who kept to themselves. So again, it's just a reminder that we're not good at knowing what's going to make us happy. And so we have to often remember back and say, oh yeah, I really did like it when somebody dragged me to that party, right? So we have to be more intentional and we have to get over some hurdles. This is why I do this. Like I really care about getting these ideas out there because I see us all, myself included, so easily becoming more isolated. The cable knit sweater I picked up from Quince is getting me through this cold weather.
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30:42That's$15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes when the network is busy. Capable device required. Availability speed and coverage varies. See MintMobile.com. This is interesting. If you're feeling stuck or plateaued, chances are that you're not engaged socially. And if you're going to engage socially, why not do it at a high level with high value people? Remember, it's also your time and effort. Christoph also goes a little further and explains the psychology behind these social media platforms. In fact, if we look at the numbers, we are in a serious crisis of happiness these days.
31:22We are seeing an unprecedented rise in mental health problems. and it's basically a result of where we put our attention to, especially the minds of young people. So when we look at the influence of especially social media is having on people, then we see that it's really devastating. In Europe, for example, we see an increase in psychiatric diagnosis of teenagers of 400 % within five years, right? 400%, just imagine that. And we can point that really to that time when the age limit of certain social media apps was lifted from, I think, it had to be. And when kids actually got cell phones and had permanent access to social media.
32:10The troubling thing to find out about social media is not just that it makes you addicted, but it does so intentionally. This is an intentional function of these applications. They're designed to make you addicted because being addicted to it means you will come back, right? It becomes such a habitual thing. And we just think about this. We now have 2 billion people using social media. That's 2 billion brains that are constantly being fed a kind of like digital drug that releases dopamine in large quantities. And that's a huge difference. And I predict that in a couple of years, we'll see a difference between people using social media and people who don't on the larger scale that we do see now.
32:56But it's already starting with young brains, of course, because those are still molded in a way. Now, when I say that this is done on purpose, I'm really not joking. One of the co-founders, one of the early co-founders of Facebook admitted that they found some sort of psychological weakness in people and used that for their end. We have that on paper. That's Sean Parker saying that. So he's very, very much not happy about having started this thing. Of course, it made him rich, but it's problematic. Now, how does this happen? Why does it happen? I mean, you already mentioned the keyword, it's comparison.
33:38And we are all worried about our privacy on Facebook. I think we should be much more worried about that comparison and how it's being utilized. So if you, say, have 365 friends on Facebook, that means that every day you have your life compared to the life of 365 people. That's exactly 365 days versus your day. It's basically comparing your day with one year worth of moments of other people's lives. So you just get that metaphor in. You're comparing yourself to one year of someone else's life. And of course, if you have one year, the span of one year, there's always something. There's a wedding.
34:21There's a holiday. There's a promotion. There's a birth of a baby. Depends on how old you are. but there's always something good happening within one year. And what was your highlight today? Maybe you had an avocado toast or something like that, right? Now, I'm here. And what we are doing is say it's super important that we share stuff with ourselves because that avocado toast, as significant as it was, focusing on that feeling of that positivity, that's actually very good for you. While feeling kind of like something where you have this giant one year worth of life experience that's never going to work.
35:03What we're doing in order to get all this attention, these likes that are actually fueling our addiction so much is we're making our lives better than it actually is. And I don't know anyone who hasn't confessed to me that, you know what, sometimes I'm actually not feeling that great, but I'm still smiling all the pictures and saying, oh my God, my life is so great. That's kind of like what's expected. And it's made by design. So that also means when you cheat the system, it makes everyone else feel even more miserable. Because again, if you're not even honest to the people around you, then they will feel even more insignificant.
35:45Now back to Dr. Waldinger and his research on relationships, especially what happens to them over time. We saw so many different kinds of partnerships. I mean, so many different kinds, like some where people felt they found their soulmate and they were inseparable. Some where people lived really separate lives, some nasty relationships and, you know, a bunch of divorces. But, you know, there were some characteristics that were really important. One was that we realized that, you know, here were two people who decided to get together and to stay together. And all of us are moving targets. All of us are changing every day, right?
36:30And you realize that when you get together with someone, you're changing, that person is changing. You are not going to be the people 10 years hence that you were when you got together. So how do you deal with two moving targets moving together? And I think one of the things we found was that the couples that were the most satisfied were the couples who really welcomed change in the other person and rolled with it and adapted to it and supported somebody in taking chances, trying new things, that kind of thing. It didn't insist that somebody be who they were on the day they got married or the day they had their first date, that that is a recipe for disaster.
37:13The other thing is that the people who were the most satisfied were people who kept being curious about their partners. So one of the things they find in research studies is that we are most tuned into our partners when we first start dating. And if you think about it, it makes sense because you're like worrying all the time. Is this person into me? What are they thinking? What are they feeling? Right? So you're really preoccupied with what's going on for this person. And then as we stay together, we think, oh, yeah, I know what they're going to say. I know what they're going to do. And then what they find is that people are actually less tuned into their partners the longer they've been together in perfectly good, stable relationships.
37:57So one of the things we found was that the people who managed to keep relationships vibrant were the people who kept being curious about their partner. Who is this person today? Actually, one of my meditation teachers taught me this exercise, this meditation that's really useful. And you can use it in relationships. The question you ask yourself is, what's here now that I've never noticed before? You know, so it could be while you're sitting and breathing, which you've done thousands of times, right? Or it could be while you're having dinner with your partner, you know, which you've done over and over again.
38:34What's here now that I've never noticed before? And see what comes up. Let's bring in our third expert on happiness, Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar. We asked him for the most important do's and don'ts when it comes to building and maintaining these relationships. Yeah, you know, let me start with the things that we should avoid completely. So if I'm feeling great and I'm happy, we shouldn't go up to them and say, look, you should do what I'm doing. Look how happy I am. That will probably not work. So to be sensitive to where they are rather to where we are. Now, in terms of helping other people, so the most important thing that we can do is to be there for them, meaning to listen.
39:18You know, listening, it's an art and it's underrated. It's important. You know, many people wonder, how is it that therapy helps? And what do the great therapists do? Well, the great therapists are empathic. They listen. They're present. Yeah, once in a while they can say something. But that's something also stems from, and if it is profound, it's because it stems from deep listening. So, you know, the marching order of, you know, parent therapists for sure, but also parents and partners who want to help the other is listen first. And then to lead by example, you know, as we talked about parents earlier, you know, you don't want your kids to be on the phone all the time.
40:02Lead by example. If you want them to pursue their passions, to do things that they're passionate about, well, do that yourself and share what you do. Another thing that's important to share is also hardships and difficulties. Because, you know, if my expectation is that my life should be, ought to be, can be always happy, I'll experience frustration. However, if I know that part and parcel of every life, including my parents' life or including my partner's life or my best friend's life, there's also hardship there, then I will be more likely to give myself the permission to experience that. So leading by example.
40:42Yeah, my non-negotiable, personally, that is, my non-negotiable is important dates, for example, in terms of relationships. It mostly has to do when work detracts from relationships. And relationships, I mean, whether it's with my wife, whether it's with my children, extended family, intimate friends. That comes first. And everything else has to revolve around that. Now, with that, you know, I work hard, I'm ambitious. You know, I used to, not so long ago, travel a lot. And yet, top priority in words and in deeds, relationships. And things have to revolve around that. As Tal Ben-Shahar states, our relationships are integral to our happiness and fulfillment.
41:34They also take time and effort to cultivate, so they need protected, especially in a modern world that seeks to break them down and isolate us. Our programs are designed to help you build, navigate, and secure them. Now, this compilation about happiness wouldn't be complete if we didn't look at the flip side of it as well. When we're feeling down, sad, or anxious. You know, whenever I talk about happiness or positive psychology, I always start by talking about the role of painful emotions. And notice I don't call them negative emotions because with negativity, there's already a value judgment there.
42:13I always begin by talking about the role of sadness or anger or anxiety or envy or hatred and how they're part and parcel of every life, including by default of a happy life. And that's important to emphasize precisely because of what you pointed to, AJ. And many positive psychologists are on this. The motto is smile all the time or don't worry, be happy. or eliminate negative emotions. And that's not possible, nor is it desirable. You know, I often have a thought experiment that I offer. And I also add that this may not just be a thought experiment that may become a reality 10 years from now.
43:01Imagine you had a machine that you could go into, and that machine would automatically eliminate any painful emotions. You could go into it, your kids could go into it. so you're feeling down or your child comes home from school feeling down, just go into that machine and you'll feel all better again. A little bit like Woody Allen's Orgasmatron. Would you want that machine? And my answer would be that it would be nice to have once in a while, but if we had it accessible all the time, if we could live according to that ideal and be positive and happy according to that definition of happiness all the time, that wouldn't be a good thing because think about it and most people if you ask them to reflect on the times in their lives when they grew the most when they learned the most that have been most meaningful to them they would usually think about difficult experiences not happy-go-lucky joyful polyamic experiences.
44:05When I first taught my class, a student came up to me and said, might I join you for lunch? And I said, sure. And then he said, oh, I hear you're teaching a class on happiness. And I said, yeah, positive psychology. And then he said, but you know, now that you're teaching this class, you've got to watch out. And I said, what? And he said, you've got to be careful. And I said, why? And he said, because if I see you unhappy, I'll tell your students. You know, ever since then, I've been getting this so, so often. And I tell my students and I, you know, I tell whoever is ready to listen that there are only two kinds of people who do not experience painful emotions, the psychopaths and the dead.
44:44And I'm neither a psychopath nor dead. And hence, I go through the ups and the downs like everyone else does. And I think that's an important way to jump into this subject of happiness, because there are so many myths and misconceptions about that exact idea, being happy all the time, and the singular pursuit of happiness. Now, in the study of positive psychology, I know there are a lot of myths that we're trying to break that normal society views as what happiness is. What are some of those myths or misconceptions? Yeah, so beyond the unbroken chain of pleasurable emotions. It's also the fact that happiness is about pleasure.
45:29And it's not. Happiness is much more than that. Happiness, yes, is partially about pleasurable emotions. It's also about a deep sense of meaning. And sometimes what we do that is meaningful to us doesn't necessarily provide pleasure. It's very much about relationships. It's very much about thinking and scholarship that may at times be difficult and hard. And of course, it's related to our physical well-being, our bodies. So happiness is a multifaceted construct. It's not just, okay, I'm smiling now, I'm on the beach and having fun, I'm having an ice cream. Oh, it makes me so happy. That is, yeah, it's pleasurable.
46:14It's part of the equation, but a small part. Well, what's interesting is everything you listed also causes me great frustration. It doesn't always make me happy. Friends, accountability, those sorts of things. So it's interesting how we tend to equate pleasure and that seeking of pleasure all the time with happiness, but that can also lead us astray and keep us from the real happiness that we want in life. My first book on happiness, I wrote about the lasagna principle. I'm into food metaphors. Lasagna is my favorite food, you know, especially the way my mom makes it. And yet, and yet, it's not that I want lasagna every day, all day.
46:54You know, even lasagna I want in moderation. And, you know, that's another myth that people think, okay, so I'm going to find that one thing that's going to make me happy, and then I'm going to do it all the time. Or that one person who will make, that's another myth, who will make me happy, and then we're just going to live happily ever after. All good things, as Aristotle reminded us in moderation. In light of this, Dr. Ben-Shahar shares three very important skills we need to train for our intellectual well-being, being bored, satisficing, and slowing down. You know, one of my close friends, her name is Shirley Yuval-Yair.
47:31She's a child psychologist. She talks about her kids that when they come to her and say to her, mommy, I'm bored, she always responds in the same way. And she says, that's okay, sweetheart, just be bored with dignity. And I think that's a very important response. And, you know, my kids already today, you know, they note off by heart, okay, daddy, I'll be bored with dignity. And it's important to learn to be bored for various reasons. One, and this relies on the work of many psychologists, including Adam Grant, who wrote Originals. And we need those quote-unquote times when we're bored because it's during those times that very often we get our best ideas.
48:18You know, it's no coincidence that, you know, we get in the shower or we used to, again, my generation, we used to get it in the car. Today, we're on the phone in the car, so it's not a bored quote-unquote time. So having those three spaces where we are doing nothing is important. You know, there's so much talk today about quality time for children, quality time. Well, we need nothing time as well, empty time for our kids. So that's one reason, creativity, originality. There's another reason which relates, AJ, to what you said about, you know, Netflix and the paradox of choice. And that is how sensitive we are versus how desensitized we are to stimulation.
49:10You know, if I have 500 channels, if I have the option of just about every movie that was ever created, literally at my fingertips, then I'm not going to appreciate, you know, a good movie as much. or when I watch a movie, I'm going to think of all the counterfactuals, meaning of all the movies I'm not watching while I'm watching this. That could be better because I'm not having a perfect experience. I'm having a good experience, but it's not perfect, and it should be perfect because what excuse do I have for it not being perfect, having so much choice? And if I constantly have more stimulation and more stimulation, it becomes less interesting.
49:49It becomes less exciting. I think about kids raised in the 19th century. For them, the highlight of the day was sitting with their family around the table and maybe reading a book together. Today, boring. Why? Because it's not in 3D and it's not changing every seven seconds and it doesn't have sound effects. You know, I think, Johnny, what we need to do here, and this is also the advice of Barry Schwartz of the tyranny or the paradox of choice, is that we need to accept the good enough satisfies in his words. And it has to do with expectations. Where has my understanding of happiness changed over the years?
50:42One of those places is around expectations. You know, I used to think that having high expectations, having greater expectations is great, is the way to go. And today, I still think that it's partially true, partially with a significant caveat. that. Specifically, when it comes to expectations in terms of success or for me as a teacher of my students or as a parent, yeah, I want to have high expectations. But when it comes to happiness or joy or pleasure, instead of having high expectations, we need to have realistic expectations. Let me give just a couple of examples. So if I have a night off and I come home and I'm in front of my Netflix and I say, wow, it's a night off.
51:32I can watch anything that I want. It's going to be amazing. I'm bound to be disappointed because I'm going to start watching something and then it's not going to live up to my expectations, of course, because they're extremely high. And then even if it's a great film or a great series, it's not as great as the ideal that I depicted before starting it. It's never going to meet that ideal. So I'm going to be disappointed and not enjoy a potentially enjoyable movie. Whereas if my expectation is, as you pointed out, you know, there's a lot that I can learn from this, or I can really enjoy this, it can be fun, and tomorrow is another day and I can watch something else, then that's more realistic.
52:18Now, that's about a movie. So, you know, the consequences thereof are not major. But think about other areas. Think about relationships. If I go into a relationship with great or greatest expectations, and when I say I do, I truly believe that we're going to live happily ever after, that we're going to experience the same high and joy and passion and ecstasy that we're experiencing now during the honeymoon phase for the rest of our lives, I'm bound to be disappointed. these are unrealistic high unrealistic expectations we need realistic expectations such as in every relationship there are ups and downs even in the best of them there are difficulties and hardships and it's natural and we're going to go through these hardships and grow from them and we're going to rejoice in the positive moments and experiences having realistic expectations whether it's of the food in the fridge, the film or Netflix or our beloved.
53:23You know, I want to go off a little bit on a tangent, which is very much related to what you said. And it's also connected, Johnny, to your focus on empathy. One of the things that I talk about a lot for happiness is intellectual well-being. And specifically under intellectual well-being, I focus on deep learning. Deep learning in the sense of, you know, getting into a book and reading and rereading a chapter or a paragraph. The first course that I took as an undergraduate in college was a course that was offered during freshman week. So that's even before the official semester started. It was a course on speed reading.
54:06And it was a great course, you know, increased my reading speed. But I think more and more today that an even more important course would have been on slow reading. Why? because today, as you pointed out, every five seconds, every three seconds, we need a new stimulation because that's what we're used to. You know, we hardly spend any time on a web page. You know, when kids today watch my childhood movies or TV shows, it's too slow for them because there is only one screen. Because it's one shot for, you know, two minutes. Mr. Rogers, it's hardly moving. You know, it's in slow-mo. It reminds me, many of my students say, when we watch you on video, we play you at 1.5, sometimes 1.75.
54:55I try not to take that too hard. We need constant stimulation. Now comes relationship and no one changes every three to five seconds. And we get bored with partners. And that's why there is so much relationship hopping around in the world today. Why? Because we do not exercise our slow, deep muscles. And how do we exercise them? Of course, within relationships, we also can exercise them through reading and rereading, through slow, deep engagement with text. And that habit or that practice is then transportable, transferable to our relationships. just like the unhealthy habits of jumping around every three to five seconds is then transportable and transferable to our relationships.
55:50To wrap this up, here's Dr. Waldinger's advice. If you think you're a lost cause when it comes to developing happiness. Well, first, you know, what we say is it really is never too late because we have the data to show it, right? That there are people who like find their tribe for the first time in their 60s or they find love in their 80s. I mean, it's kind of astonishing. And we have 20-somethings who have said to me, I'm no good at relationships. They're never going to happen for me. They're sure that it's just not going to work out for them. And so the message that we can give backed by science is that's not the truth, that it is really not too late.
56:30But then you're asking the big question, like, well, what then what? What do you do? And I think that it involves doing some of the things we've been talking about, that it involves figuring out what could you do? What small steps could you take? And one of the things I want to name is that people should expect a little bit of failure. Like not everybody you reach out to is going to respond with warmth. They may ghost you. They may not respond at all. They may feel annoyed, right? Sometimes that happens. And so I think when you think about starting to reach out, it's important to remember that there are going to be times when it doesn't work.
57:13It's like shooting baskets in basketball. You're not going to make the basket every time, right? And that has to be something we prepare ourselves for. And then to think about maybe a place to start is think about something you love. Think about something you love to do. It could be anything. It could be bowling. It could be playing the banjo. It could be knitting, gardening. It could be working to prevent climate change. It could be anything. And think about ways to do it alongside other people who share a similar interest because that's a natural place. Often, you know, that gives you, first of all, it gives you something in common.
57:57It gives you a place to start conversations. And then one of the things that research tells us is that if you put yourself in situations where you're going to see the same people repeatedly and maybe have casual conversations, those conversations can start to deepen. That's why the water cooler or the coffee machine at work was so important. We We don't know what we're going to do now that those are falling out of existence. But these are the kinds of things we can do.
58:37AJ, I love these compilations. They are action-packed. So much great information. and what I really enjoy about him, it's just an opportunity to revisit some of these interviews and guests who have changed our lives as well as our audiences. It's funny you should mention that, Johnny. I got a message from Robert on LinkedIn who said he is taking notes on these compilation episodes and he's gone back and listened to the full episode because of them. So it's so great to dig into our archives and share all of these impactful guests with you. This week's shout out goes to Apple Podcast listener Moose4567 and he writes, I discovered the Art of Charm podcast shortly after graduating college and I was trying to find my way socially, professionally, and dating-wise as a working young adult and was looking for how to improve in these areas of my life.
59:26Johnny and AJ provide listeners with a ton of knowledge and tools to improve these areas in one's life. By applying what you learn in the podcast, you will see your life transform before your eyes. Certainly, that's been my experience over the subsequent five plus years, where I've seen incredible gains by applying what I've learned in the podcast. In particular, episodes focused on resiliency, examples of the episodes where they interviewed Stephen Hayes on building more self-compassion, and episodes focused on social skills, with examples from the Toolbox episodes have been extremely valuable.
1:00:02Thank you, Team Articharm, for providing an immense service to the public. Well, thank you, Moose4567.
1:00:37form for those of you who love LinkedIn. All right. Now, before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery. We hope you guys have an epic week.
1:01:07The tragedy Cause you had your taste Of black only yesterday Yeah, but I remember you Oh yeah, I remember you And Doug,
1:01:31here we have the Lemu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Lemu, is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.
From the publisher
In today’s episode, we cover happiness with 4 of the world’s leading experts on the topic: Arthur C. Brooks, Dr. Robert Waldinger, Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar, and Christoph Schnedlitz.
Happiness and purpose make a life worth living, but what factors contribute to and take away from your ability to be happy, what role do relationships play in your happiness, and how do you build happiness that doesn’t depend on what’s happening in your life?
What to Listen For
Introduction – 0:00
Who are the world’s leading experts on happiness?
Building Happiness – 3:50
What simple question can you ask yourself to build life-changing happiness?
Success Addiction – 12:00
How do you get addicted to success and what can you do to break the addiction?
Harvard Happiness Study – 14:24
What is the Harvard Happiness Study and what can you learn from the results to foster happiness in your life?
Social Media and Happiness – 24:25
How does social media affect global happiness and what can you do to protect yourself from its effects?
Relationships and Happiness – 29:02
How much do your relationships influence your lifetime happiness?
What can you do to maintain the relationships in your life that bring you happiness?
What are the biggest happiness myths?
The 3 Happiness Skills – 40:35
What skills should you work on to build resilient happiness?
Why is boredom an important component of happiness?
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