Think Faster and Talk Smarter to Impress Anyone | Matt Abrahams

26:35Absolutely. Amen to what you said. Yes, it's about coming to the communication in a humble manner, in a place of receptiveness and support. And that's what really helps bring people closer together and allows us to learn and grow. Now, one of the skills that we focus on with our clients is storytelling, because it's a great opportunity for us to build a connection, but also there are structures that we can rely on in storytelling that allow things and frameworks that allow things to move a lot smoother. So how do you approach storytelling and why is it so important to be a great storyteller when you want to talk smarter?

27:11Story is critical. And by story, what I mean is a logical connection of ideas. Our brains, in my work, I've interviewed lots of neuroscientists and they all tell me, our brains are wired for story. Our brains are not wired for just lists of information. We need to package things up to help our audience digest what we say. A story is just a logical connection of ideas. And there are many frameworks that we can use that help us tell our stories. A framework is a recipe. And if I have the recipe, and I'll tell you both, I'm not a very good cook, but I'm a much better cook when I follow a recipe. If I have a recipe, it gives me a place to start and a place to end.

27:53It helps me focus. One of the biggest challenges of speaking in the moment or speaking in general is we say more than we need to. A structure helps us figure out what to say. And again, this is a counterintuitive notion. I'm talking about speaking spontaneously, yet at the same time saying structure. And I always like to refer to athletics. If you are an athlete, you do lots of drills. You follow drills in a patterned way so that when you're in the moment performing your sport, you actually can do so very freely and in an agile way. So lots of structures exist. Let me give you a very simple one.

28:27And then if you'll allow me, I want to give you my favorite. Yeah, a very simple structure that many people are aware of. You've already referred to it as a mindset, but people use it as a way of communicating. If I'm trying to persuade you or pitch, I might say, here's a problem you have. Here's a solution on how to address it. And here are the benefits. If you've ever watched an advertisement, an advertisement does that. Here's this problem or opportunity. Here's how our tool service product solves it. And then here's how you benefit. If I have to persuade you in the moment, I can think of what's the problem from your perspective.

28:58How does my offering solve it? And then what are the benefits? Helps me with half the burden of what I have to do. When I have to communicate, I have to figure out what to say and how to say it. The structure tells you how to say it. Again, reducing your cognitive load. So many of us are familiar with that one. I want to share my favorite though. It's three simple questions. What? So what? Now what? By answering these three simple questions, you have a logical, tight, clear, concise response. It could be an update you're giving. It could be feedback you're delivering. It could be the way you structure an email.

29:32By talking about the what, that's your idea, your product, your service, your belief, your feedback. The so what is why is it important and relevant to the person you're talking to? And then the now what is what comes next? Maybe it's, I'll take your questions, or let me show you a demonstration, or can we set up another meeting? So what, so what, now, it is a very simple way to structure our content. And I'll let you in on a little secret, and you might've caught it. Many of my responses to your questions and our discussion have been in this structure. I don't know what you're gonna ask me, but I know how I'm going to respond.

30:04I'm gonna tell you what my answer is, why I think it's important, and then give people ideas about how they can use it or benefit from it. So it's a great way to package information and tell the stories that we want to tell. You know what drains your energy faster than a bad networking event? An overpriced phone bill. The big wireless companies love taking your money. They count on you not switching. Right now, Mint Mobile is running their best deal of the year. 50 % off all unlimited plans. That's$15 a month for unlimited. $15, that's less than most people spend on coffee in a week. You get high-speed data, unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network.

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33:08You're absolutely right. It packages it up so somebody can digest it, and it helps you prioritize what to say. So it's a win-win. And quite frankly, in many of our circumstances where we communicate, we want the person to take what we've told them and do something with it. So by making it easier for them, it helps. Think of a job interview. It is in my best interest to package my information up nicely so you can turn around and talk to your other colleagues who help make the hiring decision about me. If I just ramble lots of information, you're like, I don't remember anything specific about the person.

33:40But if I can package it up and you can tell my story for me, then I've won. Well, if it was just about random information, your resume would be enough to get the job. That's true. That's exactly right. But it is stories that we hold on to. And when our clients come to us, they go, I want to be more memorable. And it's like, well, we have to work on your storytelling because every potential question of you is an opportunity to share another part of your story. And if that person walks away feeling like they understand your story, they're gonna be more excited about seeing you again, more interested in building a relationship and more interested in helping you on that journey or story that you shared with them.

34:16You're absolutely right. And I encourage people to think through the stories about themselves and the stories that they want to reveal. In my MBA class I teach at Stanford, we have our students each prepare one of five types of stories that they can tell so they can practice and think about it. So there's the crucible story where you've been really tested. There's the pie-in-the-face story where you've embarrassed yourself. There's the learning story where you learn something really important. So we should each think about what are these stories about ourselves that reveal important information and how do we tell it in a way that can really connect to other people in a structured way?

34:52And there's so many opportunities that most people will default to simple answers. What do you do? I work in finance. Well, if you have an opportunity to share a bit of a story of why you work in finance and what about finance you actually love, that's going to make you more memorable in that client pitch meeting or in that job interview situation than just saying, I work in finance. And oftentimes we just have these responses hardwired that we just default to, to move past small talk, to move past these opportunities for connection. And we're blind to it. We don't even realize that we're doing it, but actually disconnects the other person from wanting to get to know you more.

35:28Those of us who study this kind of thing, we call these heuristics. These are mental shortcuts that help us. So, you know, if one of you comes to me and tells me about how you're struggling with something or you had a rough day, my natural heuristic, because I need to respond. I'm not just going to stare blankly at you. I'll say something like, it is what it is. Well, I just missed a phenomenal opportunity to demonstrate my compassion, my caring for you, to help. But when I just heuristically knee-jerk respond, it is what it is, or some other trite saying, I miss out on it. So you're right, absolutely.

36:01We have to lean into these opportunities to connect, to share our stories, because that's really where the human making common of communication happens. Now that first opportunity is small talk. And I know a lot of our listeners dread it to the point of sometimes even avoiding it because of those heuristics, right? They've been in situations where people default to one word answers or just generic responses. I had a great day. It's okay. I work in finance. And of course, that's a boring interaction. You remember that. And then you want to avoid more of those boring interactions. But unfortunately, small talk actually serves a very important tool in building connection.

36:39It allows us to find commonality. It also shows how open we are to connection in the first place. So it's not to be avoided. How can we strengthen our small talk skills to be more impactful in those opportunities? I so agree with you that small talk is a wonderful opportunity to connect, to learn, to learn about yourself and others, to extend potential for the future. I think what we need to do is we need to rebrand small talk. Big, good things happen in small talk. but many of us just, it has a bad rap and we don't want to deal with it. So I have a couple ideas about how to make small talk better.

37:14The first comes from a colleague, her name's Rachel Greenwald. She's fascinating. She's a matchmaker and an academic, really interesting. And she has this great saying, it's the goal of small talk is to be interested, not interesting. A lot of us put so much pressure on ourselves to be super interesting. It's almost like we're playing tennis and we want to ace the ball over the net. We want to land it so we score. And that doesn't set us up for success. Rather, I think small talk should be seen as hacky sack. You know that little beanbag game where the goal is for each of us to just keep it off the ground.

37:47And the way that we succeed is if I set you up when I pass it to you so you can more easily get it and pass it back to me. So be interested, not interesting. Ask questions. Be curious. Follow up on things people say. That's how you get small talk moving forward. Highlight and comment on things in the environment. We put so much pressure on ourselves to start these things in an amazing way. And we have to avoid the doom loop. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Now we're nowhere better off, right? So comment on something in the environment. Comment on a shared experience. If you're going to some chit-chat cocktail party after some corporate event, you know, where there was a keynote speaker, go up to somebody and talk about the keynote speaker.

38:29Talk about the environment. I was in one of these events once. I was writing the chapter of my book on small talk. So I said, I'm going to challenge myself. And I went up to somebody I didn't know and I looked around the room and everybody was wearing different color blue. It was like this blue Smurf fest. And I looked at the person and I said, did you know, did I miss the memo? Everybody's wearing blue. And the person looked around and said, oh my goodness, you're right. And we had a delightful conversation simply because I picked up something in the moment. So how you start them, start with curiosity, comment on something you have in common, and that sets you off well.

38:59And then be curious. My mother-in-law has a black belt in small talk, and she does it with three simple words. Tell me more. When somebody says something, she'll just say, tell me more. And that gives the person permission to give more information. It demonstrates my interest. I can find more commonality. Let me see, if you'll allow me, I wanna share one more trick, I think, with small talk. How do you get out of it? How do you get out of the conversation? Most of us rely on biology. I gotta go to the bathroom. I'm hungry, I'm thirsty. I had this, this was awful. I wanted to get out once a long time ago.

39:33And I said to this person, oh, I need to go to the bathroom. The person looked at me and said, me too. And now all of a sudden our conversation continued for an extra 20 minutes in an awkward bathroom situation. We need to end them. And Rachel Greenwell, again, taught me this great technique. She calls it the white flag, not white flag I surrender, but white flag like in auto racing. They wave the white flag before the last lap. So what you do in a conversation is you say, in a few minutes, I want to go talk to those people over there. But before I leave, I'm curious about. So you ask one more question or dive deeper.

40:02And then once that wraps up, you say, thank you so much. I learned so much from you. I'm going to go talk to my friends over there. Because you've signaled you're leaving soon, everybody, the separation happens peacefully. Everybody feels okay about it. The other person's already prepared for their exit. I love this way. I do it all the time. It works beautifully. So we have to think a small talk is a big opportunity. We have to be curious, lead with questions, be interested, not interesting. Now, a pattern we've recognized with our clients around the curiosity front is they can oftentimes become too curious to the point of not divulging or sharing anything about themselves.

40:36And we created a conversation formula for these moments so that much like your tennis example, you're not just sitting there waiting for the ball back, but instead you're volleying it back to the other person so you can have a great rally conversationally. So we like to buffer all of our curious questions with statements about ourselves, whether we relate to that person shared their answer or we don't, we express that too. And we found that oftentimes when we're in these situations, maybe you're not into the same things. Maybe you haven't been to that place. You haven't eaten that cuisine. You don't enjoy watching that sport.

41:09And we hold back and we clam up and we don't say anything in that moment. And the other person takes that silence as judgment or us not being open. In actuality, you saying, hey, I've actually never had that cuisine. I've never tried sushi or I've actually never been into NFL. Why are you such a big football fan? Did you learn about it growing up? Was your parent a big football fan? These are great ways for you to at least share something in that small talk so the other person doesn't feel all the pressure of your question after question after question. that interrogation will often lead the other person to take less interest in you and look to wave the white flag sooner.

41:47Two comments that come to mind. One, when you're listening to ask questions, it changes the way you connect with somebody. When I'm just listening to get my point out, that's very different than when I'm listening to understand what motivates you. So I love that you're encouraging people to do that. And then from a more academic point of view, people who study conversation look at different types of turn-taking. And the two major categories they look at are supportive turns and switching turns. So a supportive turn is where I take your topic you're presenting on and I ask more about it. So let's say, AJ, you come to me and say, hey, I'm so excited.

42:21I just got back from a trip to Hawaii. A supporting response would be, oh, really? What island did you go to? What did you do? A switching response would be like, oh, I just got back from Costa Rica. Both are important because, as you said, if I only do supporting responses, you feel interrogated. You feel like I'm hiding something. So I occasionally have to do a shifting response to allow myself to share information about me. The magic number seems to be two-thirds supporting, one-third shifting in conversation. So it's not about all or none. It's about managing between the two. Yeah, and I love that idea because it's simple for you to understand.

42:59There are moments where you want to share more and take a little bit of the spotlight and then also recognize that being interested in the other person means not taking the spotlight. And we never like being in conversations with people who immediately switch back to themselves and talk about how amazing Costa Rica was when you just got back from Hawaii and you're probably excited to share your trip. Absolutely, that's right. And it's being sensitive to that and being open and notice that. The risk that we run in doing that though is we're giving away some of our control in that moment because we don't know where the other person is going.

43:32But in that is where that magic happens. So we have to get more comfortable with, I don't know where this conversation is going. It might bring up something great. It might bring up something that's a little awkward. But we have to gain comfort with that. When you're meeting somebody new, there's going to be small talk taking place. And no matter who it is, there is tension and pressure on meeting somebody for the first time. So acknowledging that, you want to be respectful of where pressure goes. So if you just get on the question train and because you were told, hey, find out about the other person, that's a great way to go about it.

44:08Oh, great. I'll just keep asking questions. Well, every time that you ask a question, you're putting more and more pressure on the other person. And eventually the pressure gets to such a degree they're trying to find a way out. They don't realize that they're getting their question train. All they know is it's uncomfortable. and they're going to have to leave that interaction due to being uncomfortable. Now, if you're an introvert or you don't like small talk much and that person immediately is looking for an exit, then you're going to take that frustration either it's that person's a jerk or I fail and suck at small talk and I'm never going to do it again.

44:50Both are wrong. Right. Right. It's like, but this is why the question answer statement formula is so important because it allows you to, as AJ was saying, and to volley that back and forth. You're right. And the one thing I really, really like to highlight there, because you made a really important point. When we communicate, we're not just communicating information, we're communicating emotion. And we often fixate on, hey, am I saying the right thing? Are these the right words? Is is this moving the conversation in the right direction? And we don't think about how is that making the person feel?

45:27Because you could be doing all the right things, but really making somebody uncomfortable. So we have to manage both the feelings that we're communicating. That's why tone is important. That's why pausing is important. That's why listening and paraphrasing are important because that's where we communicate the emotion and the interest that helps us move the conversation forward. So we have two channels going simultaneously and we have to pay attention to both. You mentioned something very important there that I also want to shine a light on. When we ruminate on these things, it's always about the words that we use.

45:59But we can't put ourselves back in that moment to understand the emotions that are flying. So your reflection is off. It's highly distorted due to not being in that moment to understand the atmosphere, emotional atmosphere that is going on. So, I mean, that plays a large role. as well. And if you had a bad joke or you said something that maybe you think was offensive, all you remember is the words that were exchanged. You don't remember the emotions that were in that room and what was going on and how people were feeling. So it's difficult to reflect in that manner if you can't have an understanding of that emotional atmosphere.

46:42Absolutely. And you're right. When we reflect, we distort lots of things. And we certainly let go of the emotion. And we don't often pay attention to the context either, right? We just remember the words. And a lot of what happens that helps us do well or not so well is the context that's going on. And so we need to broaden our reflection. And actually, when I encourage people and teach people to reflect, I ask questions like, how are you feeling? How do you think the other person was feeling? What was going on in the environment at the time? Was it loud? Was it noisy? Were people rushing by? And that helps people get a better perspective of what might influence what worked and what didn't work so well.

47:23This is why we do the video work as well. And when we're watching it back, those moments that were recorded where they're in the moment, they're discussing, and maybe the interaction completely collapsed on itself. And then we're watching it back and they're like, I don't understand how it collapsed. Nothing happened. And they're like, well, yeah, that was your anxiety getting the best of you in that moment and you surrendering to it, right? And here's what we're going to do to work beyond that and to navigate that and improve for next time. Right. And that brings up this notion of failure and mistakes.

47:59And I have a perspective on mistake. I mean, we've all heard mistakes are how we learn. And if you watch kids, they make lots of mistakes and they learn. I like to see mistakes as missed takes. You know, when you film a TV show or a movie and they have that clapboard and they go take one, take two, you know, what they're doing there is they're trying to optimize something. Each take is not wrong. They're not bad. They're just trying it a little differently. So when we do that reflection you're talking about, instead of saying, oh man, I did it wrong, just say, oh, that's one way of doing it. I bet you I can do it another way that might have a different outcome.

48:31And that's why a movie director will say, do it standing, do it sitting, do it with this emotion, try it with that emotion. And that's what we all have to do. That's how learning helps us rather than reflecting and say, oh my goodness, I was awful. I have lots of people I coach and I teach where that reflection sends them into this doom loop where they just get into the spiral of I can't do this. I'm not good at this. And I really try to help them reframe and say, no, this is just a missed take. Next time you'll take it differently. Take two. Let's try it. And the big problem there is we only remember the really amazing moments and the mistakes, the awful moments, the failures.

49:05when in actuality, most of the communication in this podcast with our friends and family, the people we love, is in the middle. It's not failure and it's not 100 % perfect. So what do we do in those moments where it is high stakes, but we do make a mistake? We put our foot in our mouth, we misstate something, we're in a job interview, we're feeling the pressure and the anxiety, and we don't say exactly what we wanna say or we don't talk smarter. So a few things to think about. In that moment, you have to make some really quick decisions. One is, is it significant enough that I have to acknowledge it?

49:36Sometimes we don't say the right thing and we just keep going and that's fine. The reality is most people aren't listening as well as we'd like them to and maybe they miss it. So sometimes highlighting the thing actually makes it worse than the actual act. So we have to make that calculus very quickly. Is this significant or not? If it is something that is significant, let's say you're in a job interview and you answer a question and it doesn't come out right. And there's really one thing you wanted to add more. You can say, you know, I want to go back to that question because I really think this is important for me to share with you.

50:10So you redirect and you, but you do so by explaining the value it has for the other person. So it's not like, oh, I'm just correcting a mistake I made. It's like, I think you really should know that this is important. And that way people are more likely to say, oh, you've got my best interest in mind. Please do tell me. Sometimes we make a mistake that we need to apologize for. And I spend some time in the book talking about an apology. So we certainly don't want to offend somebody, put somebody in an awkward position. So sometimes what we have to do in those moments is actually apologize. And when we apologize, we have to be specific about what we're apologizing for.

50:44Often people apologize for how we made people feel like, I'm sorry that you feel bad. No, no, I'm sorry that I interrupted you and made it awkward for you because you were saying something important. There's a difference there. So we have to, when we apologize, apologize for the specific act, not how we made someone feel. So I really think we have three choices to make. And in that moment, we have to decide which of those we follow. One is to ignore it. The other is to circle back, but do so by highlighting relevance for the person you're doing that with. And then finally is the apology. Yeah, and I think it's so important that we recognize the apology is not about the outcome, but our action and our role in that outcome.

51:24100%. It was so great having you, Matt. We love asking every guest what their X factor is. What do you think makes you unique and extraordinary? I think I'm on that path. I don't think I'm there by any means. But for me, I think it's my curiosity. It is my curiosity about how people can connect better. I am tenaciously curious. I am very much interested in helping other people. And those two go nicely together. And I appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts and to explore these topics with you. I love the conversation we had today. Likewise, and I know our audience will enjoy your podcast and book.

52:01Where can they find out more about the work you do? Thank you. So mattabrahams.com has everything I do. I would love for people, if they like your podcast, I think they'll like Think Fast, Talk Smart. The book is Think Faster, Talk Smarter. I'm not very creative with names. And I do a lot of work on LinkedIn and would love to see people there as well. All right, thank you very much, Matt. Thank you.

52:31Well, Johnny, as we saw in his answers, frameworks are the key to all of your success in communication. Absolutely. And there was a lot of great, enjoyable frameworks in his books. And certainly that's what we pride our X Factor Accelerator on and all of our coaching programs. This week's shout out goes to Jim who writes, Thank you so much for all the hard work you guys put into your programs. The X Factor Accelerator has been a game changer in my development. Your podcast was recommended by a friend, and I was amazed and intrigued by the topics. I didn't realize these skills could be learned.

53:03And after a couple episodes, I realized what I had been missing, and I was eager to join in on the fun. The implementation sessions have been fantastic, and learning emotional bids has changed my life. After the implementation session, I wanted to practice, and I went out with my friends for a drink. I've never felt so at ease socializing. My friends even commented how my attitude had changed and seemed lighter. I should have done this years ago. I'm really looking forward to the rest of my journey. Thank you, AJ and Johnny. The key to making relationship building fun is recognizing emotional bids.

53:33There is no better feeling than taking the X Factor Accelerator implementation sessions, feedback into conversation with friends and noticing an instant improvement. Are you stuck at work or in life? Do you feel life passing you by too quickly, becoming redundant and absurd? Well, that means it's time to shake things up in your career and your personal life. That's right. And if you're ready to break out of the boredom and invigorate your social capital, then it's time to unlock your X Factor and unleash the secrets to elite human dynamics. Imagine what you can accomplish by mastering the art of influence, persuasion, and rapid rapport building.

54:09With our X Factor Accelerator program, you'll gain the skills to captivate any room, influence any decision, and create connections that last a lifetime. After coaching 10 ,000 clients and 16 years of research and training, the Art of Charm has built the Leading Elite Human Dynamics program. You'll get personal feedback, rapid skill building, and elite strategies to unlock your unique X factor and give you the ability to stand out, be memorable, and make an impact. Take your communication from ordinary to extraordinary with our personal plan of attack and expert guidance. This is not a one-size-fits-all program.

54:45Our programs are tailored to your skill level, so you get the best training possible. Join an elite network of professionals, business owners, military special forces, and engineers closing deals, winning friends, and influencing high-value people. Don't put off your full potential any longer. Apply today at unlockyourxfactor.com. That's unlockyourxfactor.com. All right, before we head out, could you do us and the entire Art of Charm team a huge favor? Rate and review this podcast on your favorite player. It helps us get amazing guests like Matt on the show. And of course, we appreciate all the excellent feedback.

55:19Before we head out, huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harreld and Eric Montgomery. We hope you have an epic week.

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