In short
Micro practices for well-being—actions that take 30 seconds or less—arguing that consistency beats duration. The episode covers “micro practice” research (including self-compassionate touch), integrating mindfulness into daily life (not retreat-only), using habit-formation tools to stay consistent, and applying practices to phone/social media moments (e.g., “everyday appreciative joy”).
Guest
Eli Susman. Background: researched micro practices at Harvard and UC Berkeley; dissertation work on self-compassionate touch and habit formation; author of a book proposing a “menu” of micro practices (14 total) organized into move, touch, breathe, flow.
Key claims
- Micro practices are well-being practices adding no more than 30 seconds/day.
- Consistency predicts outcomes more than longer sessions.
- Informal mindfulness (during daily tasks) often shows stronger, more consistent benefits than formal seated meditation.
- 20-second self-compassionate touch improves self-compassion, stress, and emotional well-being; it can lower cortisol during a mock job interview.
- Habit tools (specific cues, reminders, “emergency skip days”) increase practice and outcomes.
Notable examples
- Monk advice: “How about three breaths?”
- Instagram envy study: “appreciative joy” outperformed other scrolling interventions.
- Headspace study (21,000 users): stress reduction tracked with consistency, not time spent.
- Emergency skip days: permission to skip increases follow-through.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Overwhelm of Improvement
1:01 to 1:27
Exploring the challenges of improving multiple life aspects.
“I think myself, much like many of our listeners, are probably working on a lot of things, have a lot of roles, tasks, habits, things in our lives that we'd like to improve.”
Understanding Micro Practices
1:27 to 3:41
Discover what micro practices are and their significance.
“And I think, you know, I think the best way to explain it is with a story, just to give you some background.”
The Power of Consistency
3:41 to 4:50
Learn how consistent small practices yield better outcomes.
“and that's what led me to coin the term micro practice which i really define as uh well-being practices that don't add anything more than 30 seconds to your day.”
Integrating Mindfulness into Daily Life
4:50 to 8:46
How everyday activities can be transformed into mindfulness practices.
“three-hour meditation, the five-hour long morning routine.”
Redefining Meditation Practices
8:46 to 11:43
Challenging the misconceptions around meditation duration.
“We just know that every single day we're making that cup of coffee, if we drink coffee or tea, or every single day we're brushing our teeth.”
The Evolution of Meditation in the West
11:43 to 14:00
Understanding how meditation adapted to modern lifestyles.
“really feels like a challenge and a burden.”
The Challenge of Modern Meditation
14:00 to 20:35
Explore the difficulties of practicing meditation in today's fast-paced world.
“Meditation was originally designed for monks, not multitaskers, right?”
Micro Practices for Daily Presence
20:35 to 28:00
Learn how to incorporate micro practices into your daily life for better presence and connection.
“Or, you know, can we feel a smile on our face?”
The Power of Appreciative Joy
28:00 to 36:34
Learn how practicing appreciative joy can enhance emotional well-being.
“And, you know, the group that did Appreciative Joy had consistently outperformed all of the other groups.”
Micro Practices for Well-Being
36:34 to 42:00
Discover how micro practices can improve your mental health and connect you with your body.
“to embody compassion and connection, you know, that can also involve things like even, you know, fist bumps, high fives, squeeze of the shoulder, you know, touch really has an outsized impact on our well-being.”
Show all 16 chapters
Self-Compassionate Touch for Anxiety
42:00 to 45:00
Learn how self-compassionate touch can help reduce anxiety in high-pressure situations.
“You're feeling that fight or flight response and give yourself something simple that in the moment you can do at the networking event.”
The Science Behind Self-Soothing Practices
45:00 to 51:00
Discover the research showing the effectiveness of self-soothing techniques on emotional well-being.
“So you sharing this one, really impactful.”
Implementing Habit Tools for Consistency
51:00 to 54:30
Explore practical tools and strategies to help integrate self-compassion into daily habits.
“So let's walk through those habit tools.”
Self-Compassion as a Tool for Resilience
54:30 to 56:00
Understand how self-compassion can enhance resilience and adaptability during setbacks.
“You don't want it to seem like you're falling behind or you can't keep up.”
Self-Friendship in Habit Formation
56:00 to 57:50
Explore the concept of treating self-improvement as self-friendship.
“Because, you know, what happens with self-improvement is there can be kind of like a subtle self-aggression to it, right?”
Finding More About Micro Practices
57:50 to 58:38
Learn where to find more information on Eli's research and work.
“And I think it's a perfect way to wrap us up today.”
Transcript
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0:43Eli Susman:Recognizing that joy is an unlimited resource. Celebrating someone else's, joy doesn't have to take away from yours.
0:58Welcome to the show, Eli. It's great to have you.
1:01Eli Susman:Thank you for having me. Glad to be here. I think myself, much like many of our listeners, are probably working on a lot of things, have a lot of roles, tasks, habits, things in our lives that we'd like to improve. And it can feel overwhelming at times. And that's why I was so interested in your work on micro practice and what this concept is, because I feel like it might alleviate some of that stress that we're all feeling? What is a micro practice? I love that question. And I think, you know, I think the best way to explain it is with a story, just to give you some background. So, you know, I think what really planted the seed for it, and I think what really helps describe it is, you know, I was at this meditation retreat and I went up to this monk and, who was a friend of mine named Brother Treasure.
1:57Eli Susman:I just told him that I meditated for three hours. And he looked at me and said, three hours? And then he smiled and he said something I'll never forget. How about three breaths? That's all you need to tune into the present moment. And I remember thinking, oh, here I was having walked over like I just killed spiritual Everest. And with one gentle question, he helped me see that I've been measuring the wrong thing entirely. It was humbling, but also incredibly freeing because most of us aren't short on good intentions. We're short on time. We mean to meditate. And then, you know, the meeting runs late, dinner needs making, notification pops up.
2:43Eli Susman:And suddenly we're five videos deep on Instagram into a goldfish driving a go-kart. And it made me wonder, you know, what if something is deep as, what if something is quick as three breaths, something that takes 30 seconds or less could actually make a difference in people's lives? That became the through line of my research at Harvard and UC Berkeley. And I found that just 20 seconds a day of a practice I developed called self-compassionate touch, which, you know, basically involves things like placing your hand over your heart or belly or any form of touch that feels supportive and and compassionate towards yourself pair with a kind inner voice um and just doing that for 20 seconds a day for a month compared to a finger tapping control group uh improves self-compassion stress and emotional well-being with effects on par with much more time-intensive interventions and that's what led me to coin the term micro practice which i really define as uh well-being practices that don't add anything more than 30 seconds to your day.
3:55Eli Susman:And, you know, one of the reasons for that is, you know, because when I looked more closely at the research, there was a pattern that I kept seeing, which was that it's not about how much time you spend, but how consistent you are that actually predicts the best outcomes, which is such a relief because we tend to think that doing more is always better. but often making a practice shorter is what actually helps us keep coming back to it and that consistency is where the real change happens i think there's so much to impact there but first i'd love for you to share that goldfish video with me offline sounds amazing i'd have to i i can't even um describe how i felt when i saw i was like can't believe this is something that people are doing.
4:42Well, I think you bring up a great point because so many of us are surfing social media and we're seeing clips of people with the discipline, with the ability to do the three-hour meditation, the five-hour long morning routine. And then we feel guilty that we were scrolling, that we skipped it, that we aren't as consistent. And it can feel harder and harder to get started again, to try again, to build the consistency necessary for the long-term results.
5:10Eli Susman:Totally. And, you know, that's a big part of, you know, what my dissertation at Berkeley was about was, you know, even though these practices are much easier to do than longer practices, like the people in that study that I was just talking about, they practiced 72 % more than the national average for, you know, people who were taught daily meditation. um that being said you know um uh people still struggle to do it um uh and but there is a whole science of habit formation right that can help us uh stick to these practices more easily and also bounce back, right? Like when we miss a day, you know, or we miss a week, you know, there are these different tools that, you know, I found in my research helps people practice about a third more over the course of six months after just spending 15 minutes learning about these habit tools once at the beginning of the study.
6:26I think so much of what we think about around meditation in particular is this idea that we have to withdraw from our daily life we have to commit maybe have to go to a retreat and pull away from everything in order to get the maximum benefit and to get good at meditation when in
6:44Eli Susman:actuality that might not be what we need totally yeah I mean that's that's exactly what I you know first thought when I went up to that monk and told him that I meditated for three hours. I got there, you know, this was a meditation center into the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh, who's, you know, all about integrating mindfulness into your daily life. And I was so struck when I first got there that the schedule only had 30 minutes of formal seated meditation per day, even for the monks who live there. And, you know, what I found both in my own life experience and in the research is that well-being doesn't need to be something you step away to do.
7:31Eli Susman:It can be something you live. And study after study shows that the formal meditation practice, you know, the kind that, You do like seated with your eyes closed compared to what we call informal meditation practice, the kind you weave into your daily life, mindfully drinking whatever you're drinking, washing the dishes and actually washing the dishes, paying attention to that, walking and feeling your steps as you walk to work or walk to the grocery store. those kinds of practices are actually more strongly and consistently associated with positive outcomes than formal meditation you know really across the board you know well-being mood stress sleep quality interference from chronic pain flexible thinking mindful awareness mindfulness and you know one of the reasons for that is is kind of um it's kind of intuitive you know life isn't lived in 30 minute meditation sessions it's it's lived in the other 23 hours and 30 minutes of the day and that's where mindfulness truly shines right like not by pulling us out of life but by calling us more fully into it and as we talked about a little earlier there's so many habits we already have in place that we're doing every day that don't take conscious effort, that don't require us to be in a certain place at a certain time with the right things.
9:06We just know that every single day we're making that cup of coffee, if we drink coffee or tea, or every single day we're brushing our teeth. And these are the moments where oftentimes we're not pulled to be present. We're worried about what's happening next, what's after the cup of coffee, or the email we got to get to, or the meeting that happened yesterday. And these moments, we can string together these micro practices that create the consistency for all the benefit you're talking about.
9:31Eli Susman:Absolutely. We have all of these pockets in our day that are just waiting to be used. Drinking the coffee, waiting for the microwave to ring, sitting in line, standing in line at the grocery store. And what I hope to do in the book is provide people with a whole menu of practices that they can do to fit different moments. And some micro practices don't even require a pause, right? They can just be integrated into what you're already doing. You know, like you're drinking the coffee and, you know, you don't need to be doing anything more than what you're already doing, which is drinking the coffee.
10:12Eli Susman:It's just, instead of, it's just, you know, a practice of, you know, there's the thoughts about like all the like gajillion things I need to be doing today. Here's what I need to get at the grocery store. you know i have this bill i need to pay uh and it's just like you know no i'm gonna just you know enjoy whatever i'm the coffee i'm drinking right now um the eggs that i'm eating you know just just one bite one sip at a time and you know it's not about it's not about being perfect right it's it's the practice is is really in in the noticing right like if if you think that you're if you're one of those people you know who thinks that you're bad at meditation because you just notice your mind wandering so much that actually means that you're doing the thing right you're the the practice is in the noticing and then and then coming back right it doesn't have be a walk of shame back to the present moment.
11:14It can be this, you know, you're doing the practice
11:19Eli Susman:that that's what it's all about. And like exactly what you said, you know, when you string those moments together, they compound and add up over time. Well, I think many of us just feel the guilt around duration and the pull of being busy. I'm so busy when I think about my calendar and I think about the notifications and everyone that wants or needs something for me. The thought of setting aside extra time to do any of these things really feels like a challenge and a burden. Then the guilt comes in around, well, someone else said online, I need to do 20 minutes of meditation a day. How am I supposed to find that 20 minutes to be present?
11:57And then we don't do it. And the shift in reading the book and what I love is like asking yourself, how often, like, can I just make this something that's more frequent and not feel the guilt over the duration.
12:10Eli Susman:Totally. Yeah, I mean, and that is something, you know, that we see in the research time and time again. You know, the biggest barrier to engaging with these practices is time. But, you know, there are these studies with like, you know, there was one study with 21 ,000 stressed out Headspace members, you know, which is a mindfulness app. Maybe you've heard of it. I've used it. And yeah, same here. And, you know, it's, and they, you know, one thing that is really amazing about this study, it was, you know, because it was an app, they were able to, you know, really objectively track, you know, it wasn't just people reporting on how often they practice, right?
12:51Eli Susman:They were able to get the data for like how often people are practicing, how long they're practicing objectively. And they found that how much time people spent actually wasn't associated with how stressed they were at the end of, I think it was a month, but how consistent they were. That was what actually predicted the reductions in stress. And, you know, we see that across, you know, meta-analyses. It was one meta-analysis, which is basically a study of studies. You know, they look at a bunch of studies and I know you got your, you were, you probably know what that is, but just, just for the viewers.
13:35Eli Susman:So yeah, so they, you know, there was 203 randomized control trials, you know, on, on meditation, nearly 16 ,000 people total. And they found the same thing, you know, longer sessions were not associated with better outcomes. And, you know, I think one of the things that I find so interesting about this is that we've kind of applied this, like, so here's the thing. Meditation was originally designed for monks, not multitaskers, right? Like for centuries, it was practiced almost exclusively by monastics. And even then, only a select few engaged in the long, intensive sessions we now associate with mindfulness.
14:21Eli Susman:Um, but when meditation entered the West, it arrived, you know, largely straight to that scaffolding those monks relied on. And suddenly these people, you know, myself included, you know, juggling deadlines, families, notifications, were handed practices built for a much slower pace of life. And, you know, it's not, no wonder, it's like, no wonder stillness feels hard, right? Like, it's not the, that the practice is broken and set the context has changed. And, you know, in our western context we we often apply this kind of like competitive or even just like kind of measuring things right it's like yeah like oh like i can meditate for an hour right and that that somehow makes me a better meditator when in reality you know that one that's not what the research shows.
15:10Eli Susman:And two, you know, being able to sit still for an hour doesn't necessarily mean that you were like, you know, doing the thing. It's like that might just be a better willpower, right? I mean, it's... Well, there's also status tied to it, right? So to be able to tell someone else who feels busy, like, I have the hour in my day to meditate. Sucks that you don't have that hour or I can afford to do the 10 day silent retreat where I completely unplug. Sucks that you don't have that. Like there is a status now associated with wellness that I think is woven into this comparison in some toxic ways where if you're like me and you're a parent, like I can't just unplug for 10 days and go on a silent meditation.
15:54I've heard all the benefits of my friends who've gone, but that's just completely impossible for me. And then I just put meditation on. Well, you know, that's someone who's chasing relaxation. That's good for them because their life is less busy than mine. Wow. They've built such a successful business that they're not needed for 10 days. Good for that.
16:14Eli Susman:Totally. And, you know, it's, I couldn't agree more with that. And, you know, that's definitely something I've experienced in my own life. You know, like there, there was a time when I used to meditate for like an hour a day and then, you know, I got to grad school and maybe you've experienced this, but like I, I just, you know, I was in my, in my second year and, you know, I was, I was doing teaching, I was doing research, I was seeing clients for clinical work. And then on top of that, I was just being a student and taking classes. Right. Right. And I just, I found, I just increasingly had less time, you know, to, to do the practice.
16:58Eli Susman:but at the same time I was I was starting to study you know micro practices and that's really what helped me get through grad school right it helped me you know it's it's so funny how you know we were taught like in order you know for meditation to affect your affect your life and, you know, for you to find presence in your day, you have to first master it with your eyes closed, right? And then, you know, we're taught that you just do that and then hope that just follows you out the door. But we have this whole world that can be our practice session, right? And this is not something that is necessarily new, but it's something that has just been heavily de-emphasized, you know, when meditation made its way into our culture.
17:55And I think it's been commercialized in a way that you need the meditation pillow and you need a space where there's pure silence and it's well-decorated and that's your corner to do it. And we're missing the point of being present. Like all of these behaviors are around being present, not living in the past, not living in the future, not wrestling with all of those mental anxieties that we might be facing, the fear, the hope, the doubts, but recognizing that there are more moments in our life where if we can be present, we can feel these benefits. And I know our show is based on relationship building and so much of relationship building is on being present, not anticipating what the other person's gonna say, not worrying about what you just said and how it's being received, but actually being present in that moment for the connection, for the relationship to actually happen.
18:47And these are actually great moments for us to do a micro practice in the expression of conversation with someone else, spending time with someone else to muster the presence necessary for connection. That's a great micro practice. And I think so many of us, we think of the meditation practice. We think of the cushy pillow. We think of sitting cross-legged. We think of having the right light and ambient mood and withdrawing and relaxing instead of actually recognizing what it really is.
19:17Eli Susman:absolutely and you know one thing that i find you know kind of and you know meditation retreats of course can be very powerful and kind of in their own league in like in a lot of different ways but one thing one way where you know it probably doesn't measure up and this is just speaking from my own experience and from what i've heard from other people is and it's kind of intuitive right Like sitting in silence for 10 days, it doesn't necessarily help you be a better communicator. Right. Shocking. And, you know, we have, but when we like, that is why, you know, like what we practice doing is what we get better at.
20:05Eli Susman:So when we practice bringing presence into our relationships, bringing presence into our conversations, listening to someone without thinking about just the whole time what we're going to say next, right? Or even speaking and feeling our feet as we talk, right? Speaking, noticing where our words are coming from. Are we speaking from a place of tension in our body or openness in our chest, tightness in our face? Or, you know, can we feel a smile on our face? Right. And like those things are those are doing those things is what's going to help us get get better at it. And they're available right now.
20:56You don't have to book the retreat, fly, drive, withdraw, park your device for 10 days. They are available to you right now. Even as we're speaking, we can be doing a micro practice together here. As you're listening, you can be doing a micro practice around recognizing where your feet are, what your breath is, what you're feeling as the words are hitting your headphones. But so much of what we're taught around this is just so counterintuitive to how we approach everything else in life. Like if I were to tell my friends, I want to get good at golf, I'm going to go on a 10-day retreat once a year and those 10 days I'm just going to golf and then expect that the other 355 days my golf game is going to be great and I'm going to be able to hang with the foursome.
21:39Well, we would never approach it that way. We recognize that it's a practice we have to keep doing day in and day out. Or if I said, hey, I want to lose weight, I'm going to go on a 10-day weight loss retreat and then just come back home and not really think about it, check that box for my wellness. Well, of course, I'm not going to keep the weight off. I'm not going to be able to keep the plan in place if that's how I'm treating that side of my skill set or that side of my wellness plan. But meditation has this like unique way of like, okay, I check the retreat box and I can tell and share with people that I'm going on the retreat.
22:10So I'm mindful. I'm doing the thing.
22:14Eli Susman:Totally. And you know, it's, how do I say this? Like, you know, when we are actually, you know what when we and I found this you know in my own experience too like you know I'll come back from a retreat and you know there there's like there's an adjustment period too even of just like getting back to that of like you know speaking with people and like you know it's it's these practices, you know, when we do them, just like in our day to day, like that is just gonna, you know, the fact that we can do it too is just like important in and of itself, right? Because when we can, you know, repeat it, the more we do it, you know, the easier it's going to get.
23:13Eli Susman:And, you know, once we realize that it's not something that you have to like step away from life to do, you know, then here, here's this thing that you can do that's just already there, right? You're, you're already talking to the person, you're already, you know, uh, walking to work or, um, you know, even, even like scrolling through social media, you know, there, there are practices that can help you with that. And, you know, those are things that, you know doing a retreat you know uh you're not directly practicing those things right um you know even when even when i was on a retreat you know a couple years ago like one of the teachers was like you know there we could like get our phones like the the like the day before ended it said the day ended and i was like should i do that like is that gonna like disrupt my retreat, you know, this time.
24:12Eli Susman:And he was like, he was like, take the phone, you know, it's like, cause we, I, cause I realized just like how much, as soon as I opened that phone, I realized how much, uh, I needed to practice with that too. Right. Yeah. Uh, well, I mean that, that is the whole point of a retreat and it's not to say you shouldn't do a retreat. I'm a huge fan of retreats. I've gone on retreats, lots of value in escaping your environment, being around like minded people who are working on the same thing and giving yourself that time and space to dedicate to it. There are definite benefits to that. But we also shouldn't beat ourselves up if we can't go into retreat mode or we're not practicing like a monk.
24:53We should recognize that, hey, there are things right now in our daily life that are pulling our attention from the present. The biggest one for most of us is that device probably sitting next to you while you're listening to this or You're probably staring at it watching this clip. And if we're not practicing with that present, we're actually doing ourselves a disservice because that's most likely what is pulling away all of that present moment feeling. And for me as a new parent, like I've recognized now being conscious of setting my phone aside to spend time with my daughter, how easier it is for me to do the micro practice.
25:29How easier it is for me to say, wow, this is her first time eating spaghetti. Let me take a moment to really sink into this feeling of spaghetti and how tasty it is and how much joy she's having in this experience and be present for it. And so often I will then find the phone back in my hand and I'm not present with my daughter. So let's talk about the micro practice specifically around the phone because I think so many of us are facing that battle and it withdraws us from socializing. It keeps our attention away from our loved ones and those moments of connection, the emotional bids that we should be recognizing and turning towards.
26:05So what are some practical ways that we can bring micro practice to our phone?
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26:11Eli Susman:Yeah, there's a few practices that I love for this. So, you know, one that I find to be really powerful, and this one is more like, you know, how do we not get like stuck, you know, in that like doom spiral, right? Is something that I call everyday appreciative joy. um and uh you know you yeah you hear the name at first and it'd be like yeah really like is that is that gonna be the thing you know but um uh it's um it's something that is really powerful for social media envy right you know that the thing that you know you you're scrolling you know and you see just how good someone's life is and that's just a mirror on like you know all the things that maybe you feel like you're not measuring up to how you want to be right um just in abstract but like uh i and you know they've actually done studies where they've literally assigned people to scroll through instagram for 10 minutes uh and they they had like five different groups this was like i think like over 1300 people right you know one group watched uh a david attenborough documentary on beavers for 10 minutes another group uh i know i love i love the like videos they choose for yeah the control groups are always great yeah uh another group you know they you know they did appreciative joy which is and i'll basically well I'll explain it in a moment um and then uh you know and then they had other groups do kind of like different aspects of appreciative joy but like not the whole thing like you know is it just empathizing with people's like positive emotions but you know not like celebrating it or is it like you know empathizing with all emotions um uh or you know just and then they compare that you know, also to people who were just regularly scrolling through Instagram without any instructions.
28:40And, you know, the group that did Appreciative Joy had consistently outperformed all of the other groups.
28:53Eli Susman:And, you know, it was, you know, they had better self-compassion and they, you know, they were just on all these different aspects of emotional well-being. They did consistently better. And the practice basically involves, you know, recognizing that joy is an unlimited resource, right? Like celebrating someone else's joy, like doesn't have to take away from yours. And it's basically practicing delighting in someone else's joy as if it were your own. Or even delighting in your own joy, right? Sometimes we, you know, maybe we're doing really well, but the people around us are struggling and we feel guilty, right?
29:40That like, and, you know, giving appreciative joy to yourself is not about ignoring that, but maybe, you know, it's the lantern that you can bring into someone else's darkness. Let me grasp this a little bit deeper. So my friend posts his seventh Instagram story of him drinking an Aperol spritz in the Mediterranean. And I'm sitting here at work thinking about the podcast prep and the food I got to cook in the evening for my daughter and the fact that I have a long schedule the next day. And I see another spritz on vacation. Wow, this guy can't stop. what can I do in that moment to actually use this practice?
30:26Because I think so many of us find ourselves in those moments. And I think on the surface, yes, it sounds, okay, I just need to have this feeling of joy, this sense of, okay, what is this other person experiencing? But like, walk me through what you would do in that moment and how we can actually practice this.
30:43Eli Susman:Yeah. So, you know, the first step after you notice that there's, you know, an opportunity day to practice this, um, is shifting the perspective, right? And it's not about ignoring the realities of your own life, right? Um, and this also isn't, you know, about ignoring, you know, kind of the structural realities of, you know, privilege or, you know, systemic inequalities or things like that. But, you know, it's about being able to help that fuel yourself. And, you know, so, you know, to do that, it's simply just taking a moment to just really kind of let their joy kind of, uh, like touch you, right?
31:41Eli Susman:Like let it, let it, um, give yourself a chance to like delight in it. And then the next step is, you know, let's say, you know, you try to do that and you're like, man, I, I just can't do that. Like I, this is just, you know, uh, bringing up all of these inadequacies in myself, that's a great chance to practice self-compassionate touch or self-compassion. And I'm happy to guide folks through that as well. And then I think the joy piece and the recognition of the joy that your friend or someone you're following might be experiencing. I think that part is something that I think we can all see, but then the appreciation I think can be the struggle where it's just like, but that's so different than what I'm experiencing right now.
32:39Like this is the seventh photo. This guy just won't stop having fun on vacation. And I have so many things going on in my life that just keep me from having a fun vacation right now.
32:50Eli Susman:Totally. And so I'll get to that practice in a moment. Um, uh, the next step after doing that is, um, there are these phrases, you know, that you can use and, you know, I know on the podcast you've, you've talked about like loving kindness meditation before, you know, where you say these phrases like, may you be safe, may you be happy. Um, and this practice is kind of like a sibling of that where, um, you know, you, you can say things like, you know, may your good fortune continue to grow or, um, you know, uh, let yourself shine or, um, just as I celebrate the joy in my life, I celebrate yours.
33:36And, you know, you might not feel anything immediately in that moment.
33:43Eli Susman:Right. But over time with practice, you know, it's, it's, um, it can start to cultivate that intention, in your own mind. And that's where the appreciation comes in. I think it's easy to see the joy that someone else is having, but then if you can actually use that to appreciate and highlight the appreciation of what that person is experiencing, welcoming more of that, in a way you're redirecting all of the negative thoughts and feelings you may be having around yourself in a more meaningful way. And I can see over time that practice allowing you to start to guide your mind towards the things that do matter, the things that are important in your life, the joys you're already experiencing.
34:31Eli Susman:Totally. And, you know, if you don't, you can also put the word, the point isn't the exact words, but it's about the intention, you know, it's called to me. Not even the feeling, but the intention. And you can even just be a word like, you can even just say one word, right? Like shine or cheers, right? Or yay, like in your mind, right? And that alone, you know, and that's what they found in the research. You know, it can really create a shift. And I found that in my own experience as well. So part of what you've shared with us already is the self-compassionate touch. and I think for many of us when we think of these micro practices we immediately go to our idea of meditation or the way that we've practiced meditation before but you actually break it down in elements and you have a wonderful framework around a loop so I think it'd be helpful for our audience to think more holistically around micro practices and how touch could be a part of it and then we can talk about the actual practical ways and go deeper in the self-compassionate touch totally um uh yeah so there are there are four elements that i break there are 14 practices in the book and there are much more that i write about on my newsletter the micro memo um in in the book i divide those those 14 practices into four elements move touch breathe and flow So move practices like micro yoga, which involves things like taking a 30-second stretch break paired with slow deep breathing can help.
36:19Eli Susman:There are studies even showing just doing that for 15 to 30 seconds every 15 minutes during the workday can boost your productivity by 15%. Then there's touch practices like self-compassionate touch, you know, and that uses physical contact to embody compassion and connection, you know, that can also involve things like even, you know, fist bumps, high fives, squeeze of the shoulder, you know, touch really has an outsized impact on our well-being. And I think it's one of the most underrated well-being tools, you know, kind of in the wellness world. And I'm happy to go more into that. So then there's breath or breathe practices, you know, like slow deep breathing, you know, harnessing the rhythm of your breath to regulate and center.
37:05Eli Susman:That can also include things like laughter yoga, which is like laughing without needing a reason to laugh. And then there's flow practices, right? Like those are the practices that I was talking about, like everyday appreciative joy or, you know, mindful living, you know, like what we were talking about with like, you know, just integrating mindfulness or awareness and care into what you're already doing. And that's about turning daily life itself into practice. So I think many of our listeners are probably facing exactly the same thing where we're sitting all day, we're in front of screens, we're so focused on tech, much of how we earn is through our interaction with devices.
37:50And maybe now we're in situations where we don't even have as many social touch points in person anymore. So we're doing it over screens. And that's why I think it's so beautiful when you start to think about, okay, well, there are these four inputs, like, wow, if I just stretch for 15 seconds or 30 seconds in between calls or in between meetings and put myself back in my body where I spend so much time in my head, again, thinking about the future or worried about what just happened or how I'm being perceived. And then recognizing like touch is that immediate sensation. Like your body immediately senses it.
38:24There's no delay. And much of what we're talking about here can feel like, well, man, I feel like I'm not going to be limber unless I'm stretching 40 minutes a day for the next six years. But touch, instant signals, neurochemical pathways fire, instant relief, instant feeling sensation. And many of us again are in these situations where, well, we don't have those opportunities to maybe touch other people where we're working at home, we're working in a remote environment. So allowing yourself to touch yourself and like recognize that signal and how impactful that can be. So I'd love to go deep there.
39:02And then as I started doing some of my retreat work around men's work, breath was one of those first mindfulness practices that I found really for me worked really well to like recognize, wow, I'm, I am breathing and what are the different breaths that I have and how do those create different sensations in me? And then lastly, in the flow, I think so much of what we've talked about so far is just recognizing, well, we have these well-worn pathways, neuroplasticity, where we default to certain feelings, certain emotions, certain immediate responses when we're given a stimulus, but through intention and through flow, we can start to shift where we're putting our attention and where that perspective is in more meaningful impactful ways in our life.
39:45Eli Susman:Totally. And I love, you know, the way that you put it too with like touch being, you know, such like a tangible practice, right? And that's purposeful, you know, why that's towards the beginning of the book. You know, the book starts with the more tangible micro practices like movement and touch. Because, you know, oftentimes, you know, when we are stress or tired or, you know, or especially for kids as well, you know, you know, for adults, you know, when we're overwhelmed, the parts of our brain involved with working with our thoughts, changing the thoughts, reframing the thoughts, those are much harder to bring online.
40:29Eli Susman:And for kids, those are still developing those capacities. So, you know, things like movement, touch, even breath work can, you know, really help regulate, you know, ourselves and bring ourselves into more of a state where we can begin to work with, you know, the more subtle kind of thought level of things. But, you know, we have, you know, we're not just, you know, floating brains. We have like a whole body, right? That's connected to that brain and actually more, there's more information coming into the brain and what the brain is giving out. So our bodies are really powerful for impacting both how we think and how we feel.
41:12I think many of us are finding ourselves in situations, maybe it's a tense meeting that you know there's going to be conflict in. Maybe you're going to a networking event where you don't know anyone and past experiences have led you to feel like, oh, I'm not going to succeed in this environment. Or maybe it's just a difficult, challenging conversation with your partner or your spouse where you're going into disagreement, maybe you don't align. And I think many of us, we don't have tools for these moments. And instead, because we don't have those tools, we get more in our head, we get more cerebral, we start going back and forth.
41:47Well, this could happen worst case scenario. Well, what if I do this? And then what if they do that? And instead, what we're saying here is, hey, let's leverage some of these micro practice tools in those moments where it's going to be tense. You're feeling that stress spike. You're feeling that fight or flight response and give yourself something simple that in the moment you can do at the networking event. You could do before the job interview. You could do before the meeting. You could do before the conversation with your spouse that allow you to get out of that charged feeling, that anxious feeling that you're having and just get more in the present.
42:23And that's why I really love this idea of the self-compassionate touch. I know it's what you did your dissertation on. So if we can go deeper there, I think it's really impactful tool for many of our audience members who are finding themselves in those situations.
42:36Eli Susman:Totally. Yeah. So I'd love to guide us through it. And especially for the listeners out there, let this be a reminder that we have the power to offer ourselves the same compassion we so freely give to others right at their fingertips. And if you're driving, you know, please keep your eyes open. Otherwise, you know, the invitation is to allow your eyes to close or you can soften your gaze or just be as you are and just bring to mind a recent mistake or failure. or something about yourself that has been bothering you lately or it's been making you feel unworthy, unloved, or not enough. Notice what arises in your body as you bring this to mind.
43:48Eli Susman:Sending kindness and warmth to yourself by bringing one hand to your belly and the other to your chest with the energy of giving yourself a hug.
44:02Eli Susman:Allow yourself to embrace what arises in your body.
44:11Eli Susman:And you're invited to ask yourself, how can I be a friend of myself in this moment?
44:20Eli Susman:And when you're ready, you can come back.
44:27I love that. And I think there are so many moments. Well, one that just came up for me in that visualization where, okay, I feel immediately feeling the impact. And two, this is such a simple practice that can be done, as you said, anywhere in your car before the interview, at the dinner table before dinner is ready. And you know that you're stressed out about something you've been caring from work that you don't want to bring to your family. I mean, I think these micro practices are just tools that many of us feel like if I only had those in those moments and now we do. So you sharing this one, really impactful.
45:04And I'd love to hear from you what the science was and the dissertation and like what this proved out for our audience who might be skeptical in in going through that exercise.
45:16Eli Susman:Yeah. So I'll share that. But before I get to the dissertation study, there was one just like really interesting tidbit that I would love to share just based on how you were talking about, you know, how this is something that you can do, you know, before any kind of like highest pressure, you know, meeting or talk or things like that. And they've they've had people you know do you know in the in this particular study they called it self-soothing touch they weren't doing the kind of like self-compassionate instructions that you know we were just walking through right now but it still involved you know similar you know hand over heart and belly you know focusing on the warm things like that and they so they one group do that for 20 seconds another group got a hug for 20 seconds and the control group folded paper airplanes.
46:11Eli Susman:And the real test was this brutal mock job interview. You know, bright lights, harsh questions, everything designed to spark stress. And when the results came in, you know, the 20-second hug lowered cortisol levels after, you know, which they took, they measured after the public speaking tax. This is, you know, one of our primary stress hormones. But the self-soothing touch, lower cortisol at least as much as the hug, possibly more. And so, you know, this is something that can really, you know, have an impact, you know, in both in the moment and over time, because, you know, in the first study that I did, we found that, you know, daily practice can improve your self-compassion, stress, and emotional well-being, but it only worked if people actually did it.
47:05Eli Susman:Right. And, you know, the, the, you'd be surprised by the number of, of college students in the study who were like, man, I was just too busy to do 20 seconds. And, and, you know, I, I have, I, it led me to, you know, write a whole chapter in the book on something I call the busy mindset and how to change it. You know, this idea that, you know, pauses are something we have to justify or, you know, that we, you know, that, you know, we are just feel too busy to even take a moment. Right. And in my dissertation, um, you know, because the effects were so dependent on how often people practiced, we, um, basically asked like, what happens if you give these, give people, you know, tools, evidence-based tools that can help promote habit formation.
48:02Eli Susman:So this was just one session, you know, they just did this once at the beginning of the study, you know, they watched a video of me, nine minute video where I was just, you know, kind of talking about how to build habits. All of these tools are in chapter six of the book, plus some additional ones that I added since I did the study. and then they completed a habit plan right you know both groups chose so we had to be one group that got these habit tools the other group got both groups got the self-compassionate touch practice the same thing but the other group just didn't get those habit tools you know they just got the self-compassionate touch practice both groups also like chose a cue you know like you know, after I brush my teeth, I'll do the practice.
48:54Eli Susman:Right. But the, um, the habit tools group was, you know, given much more, you know, specific instructions on like, you know, they, in addition to just, you know, saying their, their cue, they were, you know, told to make it very specific, you know, when, when they'll do it, where they'll do it. Cause we found in my research that the more specific you are, the more likely you're, you are to make it into a habit. Um, uh, you know, they, they did, um, so, you know, they, they did this, they did this plan, they set reminders on their phones. Um, and the, the group that got the habit tools practiced, um, two days, about two days more each week, uh, six months later, uh, which is about a third more than the group that didn't get the habit tools.
49:51Eli Susman:And those, you know, they developed a stronger habit, you know, meaning that they were more likely to do it without even having to think about it really, you know, the kind of, it became much more reflexive, you know. And then on top of that, you know, those additional, that additional practice translated into better outcomes, right? They had better emotional well-being six months later uh they had um more improvements than uh you know the non-habit group in self-compassion and also something i call self-compassion automaticity uh you know which is basically like it's not just like how often you're compassionate towards yourself but how reflexive how reflexively you are uh compassionate towards yourself like you know because sometimes when we are in a tough moment, we may not necessarily feel like being compassionate towards yourself.
50:50Eli Susman:But when self-compassion is automatic, when it's a habit, you're more likely to do it even when you don't necessarily feel like doing so. And the people who got the habit tools had stronger improvements on that as well. So let's walk through those habit tools. So you definitely sold me on not only the impact of the micro practices, but the importance of consistency. So for those in our audience who want to make this consistent in their life, recognize the value, what should we be doing? How can we plan this out so that it becomes something that's much more impactful in our life? Yeah. I think in that chapter, there's probably like 25 different tools.
51:31Eli Susman:So I could go on for a long time about this, but, you know, I think one of my favorite tools is something that I call emergency skip days. And it kind of goes with what you were saying at the beginning of our conversation, right? You know, because when we think of have information, we tend to think perfection, right? Like every day, no excuses. But then, you know, what happens? You're, you know, your kid melts down, a deadline explodes, you catch a cold, you miss a day and suddenly shame whispers that you failed. And that's where emergency skip days come in. They're not a loophole. They're a lifeline.
52:09Eli Susman:Because when people give themselves two skip days a week, you know, just in case they miss a day, they're actually more likely to stay on track. And this has been supported, you know, across a variety of studies, including, you know, in my dissertation, when we, you know, one of the habituals that we gave them was two emergency skip days a week. And here's the paradox. The group that got the habit tools with those two emergency skip days, they practiced about every day. It was actually the group that didn't get those two emergency skip days that practiced five days a week. So you think it'd be the opposite, right?
52:46Eli Susman:But giving yourself permission to skip actually makes you more likely to show up because the danger isn't in skipping, it's in quitting, right? Because when we, like that is how, you know, habits end, you know, right? We miss a day, we spiral, and then we're like, oh, we can't do it. Yeah, and every day thereafter, it feels harder. So the skip day mentally gives you the ability to pick yourself back up and just get going again. Instead of, I skipped. I got to start over. Oh, no, this is so hard. And then it's two days, and then it's three days. And then you're like, all right, this just isn't for me.
53:26I'm too busy. I don't have the time, whatever it is. Whereas the skip day mentally is a framework that allows you to just pick it back up without necessarily beating yourself up and having that immense guilt around what was missed.
53:40Eli Susman:Totally. And, you know, what we find too is that people are often like reluctant to give up their skip days, right? So it's like, it's, you think of it first as like, oh, I'm like giving myself more slack. but you know it's actually like it can be a motivator for people and but it's also at the same time you know it's like self-compassion built right into the design of habit formation because you know you're you're when you miss a day it's not like you've fallen off track it's just like yep yeah like this happens that's one of those skip days i'm gonna go right back to it and you know the key is to is to just you know use it wisely right you know i i kind of think of it like that roll of toilet paper you keep under the sink, like not something you plan to use every day, but man, are you glad it's there when you need it?
54:29Yeah. Well, great in an emergency for sure. I think, and I'm also speaking from personal experience, when you find yourself surrounded by high performers, you really look to choose people who are getting after it in life and recognize the influence that they have on you getting after it. And maybe in your childhood, you had parents who were incredibly demanding and had high expectations for you, you can create an environment where when you skip or when you, hey, have this thing going on, you're reluctant to share it with other people. You don't want it to seem like you're falling behind or you can't keep up.
55:06And maybe you can't share it with your family because their response will be negative or reactive instead of what you really need, which is some soothing and some ability to pick yourself back up. And I think for many of us, we don't have the tools to do it ourselves. But if we can self-soothe, we can find ourselves more adaptable and bouncing back more frequently from these setbacks. And I know there's a big part in the book around some soothing strategies. And I think as we wrap here, it'd be really helpful for those of us who maybe don't have that soothing externally. Maybe we don't have that partner, that friend, group, or family where we feel comfortable sharing these inadequacies or sharing these moments where we've skipped.
55:49We've not lived up to what we wanted to.
55:52Eli Susman:Yeah, totally. So, you know, this is like a perfect moment to practice self-compassionate touch as just one of, you know, the soothing strategies. But, you know, another one I think is like just having this mindset around thinking of, you know, these micro practices or really any habit that we're using to try to, you know, care for ourselves or even generate like some sort of self-improvement is to think of it, to try to really think of it as an act of self-friendship, right? Because, you know, what happens with self-improvement is there can be kind of like a subtle self-aggression to it, right?
56:36Eli Susman:Like, I'm not good enough yet. Like, I need to do better. and you know what if you did what if you treated the habit or the practice not necessarily as you know an act of getting better but as an act of becoming closer friends with yourself right an act of you know just getting to know yourself other people you know when you're you're practicing you know um mindfulness you know in your social interactions and the world around you right and um you know there's this zen saying that i really love you know it's like you're perfect and you can use a little improvement right it's holding that that dialectic of like you know you can feel like you're already enough and still, you know, do things because, you know, not because you're trying to fix yourself, but because you care for yourself.
57:43Eli Susman:And I think that's an important difference to bring to any kind of habit that we're trying to build. I love that. And I think it's a perfect way to wrap us up today. Where can our audience find out more about your research and the book? Yeah. So, um, uh, micropractice.com, you know, it's one word. Uh, and then my, uh, you know, on, on that, you know, on that website, you can find, uh, you know, you should be able to find where to get the book. Uh, and then I also have a newsletter called the micro memo, uh, where I write about the latest research on micro practices and how to, uh, make them or really anything into a habit.
58:26Eli Susman:And you can find that both on the website and also at micropractice.substack.com. Thank you again for joining us, Eli. This was great. Thank you so much, AJ. Really happy to have done this.
From the publisher
You don’t need an hour-long morning routine to improve your well-being. Sometimes twenty seconds is enough—if you actually keep doing it.
AJ sits down with researcher Eli to explore micro-practices: well-being practices designed to add no more than thirty seconds to your day. They challenge the belief that meditation and mindfulness require long sessions, perfect environments, or expensive retreats, and explore why consistency may matter more than duration when it comes to building habits that actually stick.
You’ll learn how to weave mindfulness into things you already do, use movement, touch, breath, and flow to regulate yourself in stressful moments, and practice self-compassionate touch when you need support. Eli also shares strategies for turning tiny practices into lasting habits—including why giving yourself permission to skip can actually make you more consistent.
Episode Resource
https://amzn.to/4d4eJ9p
Chapters
00:00 – Why three breaths can be enough02:38 – The science behind twenty-second practices06:17 – Stop treating mindfulness like something you escape to do09:22 – Turn everyday moments into practice12:00 – Why consistency matters more than duration17:24 – Bring mindfulness into your actual life25:48 – A micro-practice for social media envy35:01 – Move, touch, breathe, and flow42:41 – Try twenty seconds of self-compassionate touch45:25 – How touch can help during stressful moments48:11 – Turn micro-practices into automatic habits51:33 – Why skip days can make you more consistent56:01 – Treat self-improvement as self-friendship
Keywords
micro practices, mindfulness, meditation, habit formation, self compassion, stress reduction, emotional wellbeing, self compassionate touch, mindfulness practice, healthy habits, consistency, behavior change, breathwork, emotional regulation, self improvement, meditation practice, social media envy, habit building, mental health, personal growth
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