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Podcast Episode Summary: The Art of Charm - "Unbreakable (Building Grit And Resilience) | Compilation"
Episode Overview In this compilation episode of *The Art of Charm*, the hosts, Johnny and AJ, explore the themes of grit, resilience, and the importance of social skills through selected insights from esteemed guests including Angela Duckworth, Laura Huang, John Livesay, and Steven Hayes. The episode underscores the necessity of building resilience and establishing good habits in times of calm to better navigate life's challenges.
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Key Themes and Discussions
- Grit vs. Talent
- Definition of Talent: Angela Duckworth defines talent as the speed and ease with which one learns something.
- Importance of Effort: Effort, defined by the quality and quantity of engagement, is crucial in achieving long-term goals. Duckworth emphasizes that grit, which combines passion and perseverance, is often more critical than talent alone.
- Building Resilience
- Foundations of Resilience: Developing good habits when things are stable lays a strong foundation for when challenges arise.
- Components of Grit:
- Passion: Derived from interest and a sense of purpose.
- Perseverance: Involves daily practice and resilience in the face of setbacks.
- Breaking Down Goals
- Goal Management: Duckworth discusses the importance of breaking down long-term goals into smaller, manageable tasks to maintain motivation and track progress.
- Focus on the Process: Emphasis on enjoying the journey, not just the outcomes.
- Intuition and Analytical Thinking
- Laura Huang’s Insights: The balance between using intuition and analytical skills is essential. Developing intuition involves stepping out of comfort zones.
- Social Skills and Success: Huang argues that strong social skills can often lead to greater success than hard work alone.
- Overcoming Fear of Rejection
- Practical Exercise: John Livesay suggests practicing the "10 No’s" exercise to help individuals face rejection and reduce fear.
- Reframing Failure: Failure should be seen as feedback rather than a hindrance to success.
- Inner Critic and Self-Compassion
- Stephen Hayes on Inner Dialogue: Recognizing and reframing negative self-talk is crucial for personal growth.
- Compassion for Self: Encouraging self-compassion helps individuals cope with failures and setbacks.
- Consistency Over Intensity
- Duckworth's Research: High achievers often showcase a consistent effort and interest over time rather than bursts of intense activity.
- Goal Hierarchies: Structuring goals in a hierarchy helps maintain clarity and direction towards achieving larger objectives.
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Key Takeaways
- Effort Counts Twice: Both the development of skill and the application of skill to achieve tangible accomplishments require effort.
- Enjoy the Process: Focusing on small victories during the journey maintains momentum and motivation.
- Develop Your Intuition: Building intuition through real-life experiences enhances decision-making skills.
- Embrace Rejection: Shifting perspectives on rejection can empower individuals to take risks without fear.
- Cultivate Self-Compassion: Countering the inner critic with compassion aids in resilience and emotional well-being.
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Final Thoughts This episode of *The Art of Charm* serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of grit and resilience not only in achieving personal goals but in navigating the complexities of life. Emphasizing practical exercises and real-life applications, the discussions encourage listeners to foster a growth mindset and prioritize the process of personal development over mere outcomes.
For more insights and to delve deeper into these topics, consider listening to the full episodes featuring the highlighted guests.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
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1:54Our executive coaching program is your key to unlocking your full potential. Apply today at theartofcharm.com slash elite. Start your journey to becoming a better leader and networker today. Don't wait, your future self will thank you. Apply today at theartofcharm.com slash elite now. Welcome to The Art of Charm podcast, where we break down the science of powerful communication and winning mindsets, so you have the cheat code to succeed with people. Every episode is jam-packed with actionable steps to unlock the hidden superpowers inside of you. Level up with us each week by listening to interviews with the best in business, psychology, and relationships.
2:32We distill thousands of hours of research into the most effective tools and the latest science so you can start winning today. Let's face it. In order to be seen and heard, your communication needs to cut through the noise. And we're going to show you how. I'm AJ, successfully recovered introvert, entrepreneur, and self-development junkie. And I'm Johnny Zubak, former touring musician, promoter, rock and roller, and co-founder here at The Art of Charm. And for the last 15 years, we've trained thousands of top performers and teams from every background. We have dedicated our lives to teaching men and women all they need to know about communication, networking, and relationships.
3:08You shouldn't have to settle for anything less than extraordinary. All right, let's kick off today's show. We have a compilation episode for you, bringing together the world's best experts on building resilience, developing grit, and leveraging social skills to get you closer to your goals. The insights from today's episode come from Dr. Angela Duckworth, founder and CEO of Character Lab. Angela's TED Talk is among the most viewed of all time, and her book, Grit, The Power of Passion and Perseverance, is a number one New York Times bestseller. You can listen to the entire interview in episode 516 of the podcast.
3:42Also joining us, Laura Huang, an associate professor at Harvard Business School and the author of Edge, Turning Adversity into Your Advantage. If you want to listen to the full episode, you can find it in January of 2020. John Livesay is also joining us from our interview in February of 2020. John's the author of Best Selling Through Storytelling and the host of the Successful Pitch podcast. And lastly, our good friend, Dr. Stephen Hayes, one of the creators of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, or ACT, a popular evidence-based form of psychotherapy that is now practiced by tens of thousands of clinicians all around the world.
4:15You'll find the full interview with Steven in August of 2020. Now, life is not easy, and building the right habits helps you get past your life's trials and errors and closer to your goals. Grit and resilience are integral to your success in life. In this first clip, Angela Duckworth discusses the difference between talent and effort and how building grit and resilience is the foundation to reaching your goals. This is why we start our programs breaking down our clients' goals into bite-sized pieces to build momentum. This allows you to enjoy the process. Talent is a word that people use differently.
4:51So I should say what I mean by talent. When I use the word talent or when I hear the word talent, I primarily think of how quickly or how easily you learn something. If you are really talented at basketball, It means that when you play basketball, when you practice, you get better at basketball fast and with relative ease. But effort, I think, is different. Effort isn't how quickly or easily you get better at something. It's the quality and the quantity of your engagement. So in a way, you can think of talent and effort being really the two things that in combination create skill. I think for goals that take a long time to complete, not minutes, not days, not weeks, but for kids, months, and for grownups, years, decades, even a lifetime, for those kinds of goals, it really is a matter of showing up and continuously trying to make progress.
5:52And grit, the combination of passion and perseverance for long-term goals, is enormously important in determining the quality and the quantity of our effort over the long run. It is, therefore, essential, really, to accomplishing those long-term goals that in many ways mean the most to us. It's all about the fact that life really is, by design or by fact, it's a marathon. on and grit really keeps you in the race. In these next clips, Angela discusses the difference between passion and perseverance and how they help you enjoy the process of working towards those goals. So I define grit as really essentially two things in combination, passion for long-term goals and perseverance for long-term goals.
6:44But I can further deconstruct those or double-click on passion and double click on perseverance. I think that's actually helpful. And in the book, I do exactly that. I say, you know, if you ask, where does passion come from? Where does loving what you do and feeling every day that it's fascinating and meaningful, that it gives your life meaning, it really comes from two sources. One is interest, having your attention captivated by this thing that you're working on. As a psychologist, I am infinitely interested in human nature and the psychology of grit and the psychology of achievement. Every day I wake up and I'm just as interested in that topic as I was the day before.
7:26Interest is one driver of passion. The other is purpose. It's different to say that this is interesting to me than to say this is purposeful. And again, to use myself as an example, I not only find psychology interesting and not only captures my attention, but I feel like my work is purposeful in the sense that it could benefit other people. When I talk about purpose, I really mean feeling a connection to and a service to other people. So passion comes from interest and a sense of other-oriented purpose. Perseverance comes from, one, the capacity to do daily practice to get better. I mean, if you think about what perseverance means, it might sound to you like, well, I don't know what it'll sound like to different people.
8:11But when I think about perseverance, One form of it is waking up and trying to get a little bit better at something that you're doing compared to the day before. The other driver of perseverance is resilience or hope. And that is to say that in the face of setbacks that wouldn't necessarily happen to you every day, but just, you know, the really bad season. You're an athlete and you have an injury. You know, you're in sales and, you know, you could catastrophically blow a big client. You know, these kinds of sometimes really emotional setbacks and failures, resilience or hope in the face of those.
8:46So to recap, passion to me comes from interest and purpose. Perseverance comes in the form of daily practice and then hope in the face of adversity. I think that there is a kind of a taste for, you know, always being challenged, that the process matters at least as much as the outcome. If you interview an Olympic athlete, they're not going to tell you that they don't want to win the gold. They do want to win the gold. So it's not that outcomes don't matter at all. But there is like a real taste for the process of getting better, that that is at least as important to them. I think of resilience as being more relevant to like something bad happened, an illness or an error.
9:24I do think that you need to, it's not trivial to kind of like plow through weeks, months, if not years of practice or struggle to get better at something where it's kind of the opposite of immediate gratification. One thing that I think is interesting about high performers is that they're able to, in a way, break down this really long-term goal into tiny parts so that there are these small and more immediate victories. So, for example, Bob Mankoff, cartoon editor for The New Yorker, you know, it's not just that he had long-term goals. Like, his first big long-term goal was to even get into The New Yorker as a cartoonist.
9:59And after thousands of rejected cartoons, he got his one cartoon in and it was his foot in the door. but he would tell you that what keeps him going is not just like big victories but little things he says like you know if i can make myself smile a little bit like we make myself laugh a little bit to myself that is a small victory and you will find the same thing when you interview other world-class performers it's not just the kind of obvious big victory that they're able to get some satisfaction like they're able to kind of find ways to see progress in smaller forms in these next two clips angela discusses how deliberate practice and effort will get us farther than talent alone we hope our clients build those skills with deliberate and perfect practice in our x-factor accelerator implementation sessions i think the idea of different from talent not a substitute for talent in the sense that grit is not everything but being something that you really want in a player.
11:01This resonates, I think, with pretty much every athletic coach I've been fortunate enough to talk to on this topic. What I think happens in sports is that there's a tremendous amount of preparation. I mean, oftentimes people will talk about mental toughness during a really hard game. You're way behind your opponent and how do you have the focus and the confidence to keep playing? That is one aspect of grit, I guess, in athletics to an extent. But really, the most important thing is that any sport requires hours of preparation. The ratio of practice to actual gameplay is far in favor of practice.
11:38You spend many more hours drilling and practicing than you do in actual play for competition. And I think the idea that you would want players who would be able to practice their weaknesses, work continuously to make their strengths even stronger, be resilient when they're injured, be resilient after a bad season, to have captivated interest in what they do so that when they're not on the court and they're not swimming in the lane, but they're still thinking a little bit because they want to about their game and that they would have a sense of purpose. And the other part of grit that I mentioned, part of passion is having a sense of other oriented purpose.
12:18That's part of what makes people passionate about things, knowing that they're not just the only person who's concerned with this, but it's in service to others. Every coach that I have talked to, and this includes coaches of individual sports, like swimming, will tell you that athletes who understand that passion comes in part from being part of something bigger than yourself, that's huge. So I think that grit is of special relevance, I think, to achievement in sports for all those reasons. I met a poet once, Irving Feldman, who said that, you know, talent gets you in the game, but perseverance is the winning hand.
12:52And I think it's just this intuition. You know, those are his words, not mine. But it's a nice turn of phrase helps that he's a poet, I guess. You know, I think what he was trying to get at there is that, you know, sure, it matters if you're talented in something, right? You wouldn't really want to tell every child that they're equally talented in everything compared to all other children, because that's not true. The fact that you are talented in something doesn't mean you're going to do something with that talent. And it's not a substitute for working hard and for sticking with things. I believe that differences in our ability to learn or to improve in a skill, like, yes, it matters.
13:25That's my definition of talent. So yes, talent counts. Because if I have a lot of talent in math and I apply myself, I'm going to get farther than you if you apply yourself equally, but you have less talent in math than I do. So yes, talent counts. But I believe that effort counts twice in the following very specific sense. If you need both talent and effort to become skilled in something, so I have a talent for math and I really apply myself. I'm engaged. I've got a great teacher. So there's a lot of high quality, high quantity effort going in. Okay. I over time acquire math skill. I become good at math, but I still have to do something with that math skill.
14:03What if I'm great at math, but I just don't do anything with it. I don't actually solve theorems and solve mathematical problems. You need effort, in a sense, a second time, in the sense that whatever skill you have, you have to apply that skill in order to create tangible achievements. And for many things, like doing math or writing or playing music, it's the same effort that you're applying that increases your skill and is producing achievements along the way. If you're a musician and you are practicing your music and giving recitals and concerts over time, your skill is improving, But also that effort is making that skill productive.
14:40It's producing valuable, you know, in the case of a musician, you know, concerts, recordings and so forth. So talent counts because it helps us develop skill. But effort, because it helps us develop skill and helps that skill be productive. In that sense, I would say effort counts twice. you know one way to think about it is like if I increased my effort over time and consistently was trying harder working harder more focused than another person in the very long run I think that your achievements would be greater than someone who comparably was like a little more talented I think the skill would be equal but the achievements would be different if I had a piece of paper I could show you a graph I do think that you know effort it matters enormously to the tangible achievements that we're able to make our own lives better, certainly in the lives of other people as well.
15:33Angela talks about how breaking down your goals into manageable pieces allows you to see your progress and be committed and consistent. If you read a great book and you think like, I would never be able to write a book like that. I thought that before I wrote a book, I thought who could write a book? I mean, I'd see the spine of the book and you see them on a bookshelf. You walk past them in the bookstore. To me, it was just sort of like, I'm not the sort person would ever be able to do that. But when I sat down and I broke it down into like, well, first you need a table of contents. Okay. Now I break this chapter down into its four part.
16:04Okay. Now I'm just going to work on the first part. And I'm just going to work on the first part of the first part. It's not easy, but yeah, it was doable. And I finished the book. One of the pieces of advice that I give to young adults, I'm, you know, professors, so I get to see lots of kids between the ages of 18 and 22, you know, most of them struggling to figure out what they're going to do with their life. And, you know, you don't know things until you do them. You know, you don't know how to write a book until you start writing a book. And some very high achievers that I've interviewed will say that they just keep signing themselves up for things that they can't do.
16:35And they sort of pre-commit themselves, if you will, to getting better because, you know, since they signed up to give that talk, which they can't yet give, they will have to figure out how to do it. And I think the idea that how would you know that part of writing a book, a lot of it is cutting things out. You wouldn't know until you start. So my major advice to young people is, I think it's a quote from Goethe, whatever it is you can do or dream you can do, do it. Action has power, magic, and beauty to it. Begin now. I mean, it's just like to get into it. You can never learn something from the outside.
17:07You have to be on the inside. Well, one reason I believe that we can grow our grit is that I think that almost any attractive or positive psychological attribute that you wish you had, you could develop. And I'm not saying that we could all be as charismatic as Oprah Winfrey or that we can all be as fill in the blank and then fill in the blank of the exemplar that you have in mind. I'm not saying that any of us could be anyone, but if you take a quality like grit and you start to break it down and say, well, what grit really is, is having a passion for something over the long term and perseverance.
17:42And then you break down passion. You're like, where does passion come from? Really, it's having a developed interest in something and a sense of purpose. And then you break down that and you say, okay, where does that come from? Just like swimming, you realize that these components are doable, that they are learnable, that in some way you could advance yourself. Not that you'll end up necessarily the grittiest person on the planet or not necessarily that you would want to be, but that you can be a little grittier than you are today. That's my, you know, if you ask me like what my theory of human nature is, human beings are designed to grow and to learn and to adapt.
18:15We change all across life. And I think we can do that with intention. When we think about grit or we think about the word passion in particular, maybe perseverance too, there's a kind of like intensity to it. It's like a fluorescent colored thing. It's like, oh, that person's intensely hardworking. And I'm not saying that gritty people aren't intensely hardworking. but I think the consistency is really what's important. Like as any physical trainer will tell you, it's not necessarily that you kill yourself in one workout. It's the question of whether you're gonna do your exercises every day as you're supposed to do.
18:48You know, how consistent are you over time? One of my favorite studies that's ever been published was done by Catherine Cox. She was a psychologist at Stanford in the early 20th century. And when she looked at the biographies and the primary biographical material, I mean, diaries, letters, notes of super high achievers. You know, she called them 301 geniuses, people like Isaac Newton. She said that what struck her about these individuals in terms of their personalities was the consistency, not intensity. She used the word consistency of their interest and of their effort over time. And really, that's what I mean by passion and perseverance, consistency of your focus over time and the consistency of your effort.
19:35Arranging your goals into a hierarchy helps you see how lower serving goals actually help larger serving goals. All of us have goals. You know, human beings are creatures who have lots of goals, but the goals are of different levels. Abstraction, you know, the to-do list goals that you have. I mean, today I was like, you know, make Lucy's lunch. Call Diane at 850. And these are really specific, concrete goals. They are the lowest level of my goal hierarchy. And they only exist because they serve higher order goals. Like, why do I need to call Diane at 850? Why do I have that as a goal at all? It's like, because I need to actually coordinate my day with this person that I work with.
20:19Okay, why do I want to do that? Because I'm trying to develop an efficient organization, like a lab that, you know, is going to move forward. Like, why? because our lab works on psychological research for kids. And ultimately you get to my one top level goal. This is like the star on the top of the Christmas tree or the top of the pyramid, what David Brooks sometimes calls your telos, the thing that is the why behind everything that you do. And for me, succinctly put, it is to use psychological science to help kids thrive. And that's the very top. And you can actually draw the connections and say, that is why I had this super low-level tactical to-do list goal calling Diane at 850 because ultimately, it serves this higher-level telos.
21:06So if you think about goals that way, then you can ask the question, are my goals all over the place? Do I not really have a Christmas tree, pyramid-like structure? Do I have goals that are just on their own and they're untethered to my... Or is there a real coherence to what I'm doing, particularly professionally? We might have a different pyramid for our relationships and our family. But just in terms of our work life, you know, is there a kind of coherence where, you know, the way I spend my day makes sense because that's certain, you know, mid-level goals that are kind of all tied into this highest level goal.
21:41I think that's what I find about really gritty individuals, that there is a coherence to what they do. If you talk to athletes, sometimes it's really clear because they can tell you how like each training thing that they're doing lines up to sort of mid-level goals that like ultimately serve, you know, I want to win the gold medal in sculling, you know, next Olympics. But I think it's also true for those of us who have different kinds of occupations. I think that if you want to really be effective, and there's nothing moral about this, by the way, you know, if you don't have like a sort of non-denominational hierarchical structure, like there's nothing wrong with you.
22:15I mean, there's nothing bad about it in a kind of ethical or moral sense. But I do think if you want to be an effective individual and you actually, want to actually get somewhere in terms of it's desirable. I mean, Pete Carroll, the coach of the Seahawks, would tell you for him, it's what he calls his life philosophy, which he can boil down into two words, always compete. Of course, he needs to tell you what those two words mean, but they have special meaning for him. And everything that he does as a coach, he would say ultimately ties into that life philosophy, into that telos. In this last clip, Angela discusses how listening for closing doors forces you to focus on what's in front of you rather than regrets, second guessing and indecision.
23:00You know, there are choices to make, and I think it is hard for young people to close doors. You know, for a lot of your early life, you know, adolescence and early adulthood, everything you do is opening doors, right? Like, oh, that'll open the door of this opportunity. You know, if you do this, you can do anything. But I think at some point you have to start walking through doors and you have to listen to other doors shut And I think that's very hard But for me, I think ultimately as hard as it was for me to hear a door shut like okay If I start walking through this door the door of medical school Which I thought about for a while in my life it eventually shut like I had to realize at some point that I was going to not ever become a doctor and I was foreclosing You know a whole life that I could have had that I might actually enjoy I think that for me personally, though it was hard to hear other doors shut, it is deeply satisfying to do something where I can say, you know, I'm pretty good at it.
23:55Like I can wake up and know that I'm actually a pretty good psychologist. A chef that I studied, Mark Vetri, he's my favorite chef here in Philadelphia. I took a cooking class with him actually after I'd written the book and he was making pesto. And one of the people in the cooking class said, pesto, that's it? Like, you know, you're this like celebrated James Beard award-winning chef, like we're making pesto. And he looked at this person and he said, he's like, this is going to be really great pesto. And there was a pause and he said, do you know why? And the student of the class said, no, why?
24:28He's like, because I know how to cook. And I think there is a kind of gratification that comes from being excellent at something that's helpful to other people. There's no substitute for it. There's no amount of money or creature comforts that would substitute for this. And I think that is the kind of happiness, I think, that grit gets you. And it's the life that I've chosen. And it's the life that a lot of people, I think, would find gratifying. It's certainly not the only way to live your life. In this next section, Laura Wong discusses the importance of developing your intuition and gut feelings to go along with your analytical mind to have the best of both worlds.
25:03To function at a high level, you need to be able to switch back and forth. You can develop your intuition by leaving your comfort zone. This is why our X Factor members practice these skills in our implementation sessions, getting real-time feedback, helping these skills stick, compelling our clients to use these skills outside in real situations. People are making decisions all the time based on their intuition. And the thing that I started finding as I dug into this research more and more and started doing more studies was that we tend to think that gut feel and intuition is something that's quick and subconscious and biased and emotional.
25:46But actually, it's very cognitive in nature. It's a blend of the emotional and the cognitive. And it takes into account people's experiences and backgrounds and the things that they've done. And in fact, in the investments ecosystem, in the investment sphere, those who use their gut feel actually make better decisions. And so that led me to another line of research that looked at when, are there contexts in which we should be using our intuition? Are there contexts in which it's better to be more analytical? and I found that, yeah, it totally depends, right? There's absolutely situations where you want to be very analytically driven and some where you don't want to be analytical at all and just by riding by the seat of your pants and sort of making decisions based on how you feel and what your intuition is.
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26:40Part of intuition is knowing the difference, knowing which context in which you want to be more analytical and when you want to be more intuitive. And the tricky thing is that you change one variable, right? You change the industry or you change the mix of people that you're interacting with and everything changes. So there's this nuance that is involved with knowing how to act, how to perceive, how to use your intuition in different situations because we're social creatures and we're always interacting with other people. And so when we're all in our heads, we're not taking into account what's happening on the other end.
27:22You can learn how to be better at interpersonal perception. You can be better at investing. You can be better at using your intuition. You can learn it, but not everybody is willing to do it. Because even though you can learn it, you have to be willing to do the one thing that a lot of people aren't willing to do, and that is embarrass yourself. You have to be willing to embarrass yourself. That's how you hone your intuition by putting yourself out there, taking these massive chances, not taking small chances where you learn very little at a time, but taking huge leaps where you learn a lot at a time.
28:05And the problem is a lot of times when we do that, we'll face that one big embarrassment or that one big instance of backlash. And then all of a sudden we're like, oh, no, I don't ever want to have that feeling again. Right. That was that was terrifying or that didn't sit well with me. And that prevents us from learning and developing our intuition. So it takes a level of humility. It takes a willingness to be embarrassed. It takes a willingness to approach situations that even though you know the deck is stacked against you, that you still go for it anyways. Laura goes on to talk about how great social skills always outperform hard work.
28:54To serve up great social skills, make sure that you have a solid first impression. Otherwise, you're shooting yourself in the foot. we've been taught from a really young age that hard work is the secret to success right you ask people who are olympians um you ask people who are ceos top executives of companies um you know you ask anybody who has achieved these indicators of success and you say how did you achieve your success and they're like hard work just keep working hard put in the time put in the heart And the issue is that we teach our kids this. We teach people to put in the hard work. But we find that very quickly, we're sort of disenchanted finding that hard work doesn't always speak for itself.
29:44That you can take two different people who work equally as hard, and one person will inevitably be more successful than the other. And that's because the world is driven by signals and perceptions and stereotypes and all of these sorts of things. And so those are the types of social skills that we need to, number one, understand are important. And number two, be able to develop in ourselves. And number three, be able to tailor it to the right situations that we're going to be in. These are skills like knowing ourselves, but also being able to know the counterpart, knowing how the counterpart is going to be perceiving us because different people are going to perceive us in different ways.
30:31Some people are going to see those stereotypes. Some people are going to see those stereotypes and try and go beyond. Some people are not going to see those stereotypes at all. And so it's really up to us to guide those perceptions and be able to interact with people in a way that will make our hard work work harder for us. so that it's not just your hard work speaking for itself. It's your hard work speaks, but you're also helping to amplify and have it speak on behalf of what you're doing. Changing people, like turning people's stereotypes to work in our favor or switching things so that it gives us an advantage.
31:12People start to think like it feels strategic. It feels like I'm managing impressions or that I'm, you know, that it feels almost gross, like I'm manipulating or something. And, you know, in fact, the thing is, people are going to have impressions of you. They're going to have first impressions of you, regardless of whether you guide them and to your impressions or not. Right. They're going to have an impression of you. And if they have the wrong impression of you, it's a lot more work and a lot more. It's less authentic for you to then have to change their impressions back to who you authentically are.
31:50If you start with knowing who you are and being unapologetic about who you are and guiding those perceptions, it's actually better off. It's not strategic at all. You're showing them who you authentically are and giving them that information, the information about the value you provide, the information about who you are. You know, I always talk about how, you know, people we we we say to people like be yourself, right? Go if you're going into an interview, just be yourself. Or if you're pitching a venture capitalist, just be yourself. Or, you know, you're going on a date with somebody new, like just be yourself.
32:31Right. But the thing is, it's be yourself is actually horrible advice because there are so many versions of yourself. Right. It's really like be yourselves. it's like a diamond, right? And each person is a diamond, but you can look at that diamond from different angles and it's going to sparkle in different ways, right? And under certain lighting, it's going to maybe shine more or in certain rooms or in certain, like, you know, like different contexts in different situations, you're going to see that diamond differently. And when you guide those perceptions, it's not strategic. Instead, it's showing them that angle of your diamond that's going to shine the brightest and is going to show them how you enrich and provide value.
33:23It's still the same diamond. You're still yourself. You're still authentically that diamond, but you're just positioning it and showing it at that angle in which it's going to give you the richest sort of experience with that other person. Learning to adjust to different social environments gives you an edge over your peers. Our clients have used this exercise to great effect. Do it. I mean, the trickiest part is having that self-awareness of who you are and that awareness of how the other person is seeing you. being able to have those experiences where you can be in front of different people and being like, this person's going to see me differently than that person.
34:08And when you have that sort of awareness, then you're able to build in more freedom for yourself to go in different directions, try out different things and be able to sort of delight. And it is really hard because you know, in people sort of ask me often, like you study how to turn disadvantage into an advantage and you study how to take obstacles and constraints and flip them in your favor. So what are the 10 steps? What are the three steps or what are, you know, what are the steps that I need to do to get there? How do I gain an edge? And the thing is, I mean, like I would love to be able to give everybody a recipe and be like, here's what you do.
34:56You mix a little of this and a little of that, but it's not a recipe. It's not like the 10 steps to gaining an edge. Because if I did give that to you, it wouldn't work as well, right? Really what it is, it's a perspective. It's a perspective for thinking it through so that you can develop your own unique edge. That's where you get the unfair piece. Because when you've taken that perspective and making it yours and making it your unique edge is when it becomes a much sharper edge and a much more refined and a much more useful and effective edge. I'll give you one example of this just to kind of illustrate what I'm talking about.
35:40There's one exercise that I do with my students, which is called the 10 no's exercise. And the goal of it is in one week, they have to get 10 people to say no to them. And so, and, you know, in the point of this is sort of number one, when we're asking people, we're not really ever in situations where we're thinking like, I'm trying to get a no, we're always trying to ask for things by trying to get a yes, right, getting them to agree to something. And when you're trying to get actively get a no, when your homework assignment is to get a no, it changes the way you interact with people. So you start to learn like, hey, like you start to see patterns and see differences that you didn't normally see throughout the course of your life.
36:25The second thing you learn is that it's actually a lot harder to get people to say no than you think, right? People are not equipped to say no. If you get at somebody hedging or some sort of a yes, but no, but I'll do this for you instead. That doesn't count. It has to be a full-fledged no. It can't be a concession. It only counts as a full-fledged no. You realize how extreme some of these requests have to get before you actually get a no. In going through this exercise, you learn the whole goal is to embarrass yourself and get a no. The whole point of this is for you to get a note. So you have permission now to go and do these sort of things that you never would have done before.
37:12And so there's all sorts of exercises and strategies that I talk about in developing this intuition and developing your ability to interact with others. As the weather finally cools down, I'm swapping in the pieces that actually get the job done, warm, durable, and built to last. And Quince delivers every time. Quince has all the false staples you actually want to wear on repeat, like 100 % Mongolian cashmere sweater starting at just 60 bucks, classic fit denim, and real leather and wool outerwear that looks sharp and holds up. I've actually got my eye on their suede trucker jacket. It's perfect for layering and it hits that balance of casual but still put together.
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41:08And then he goes into how progressivism is better than perfectionism and how to stay focused on the right things. So then someone said, well, why don't you start a podcast? You could interview investors and have connections. And I go, why don't I go to the moon? I don't know how to do that. That seemed completely overwhelming. So I thought, all right, what am I afraid of? And this is something I think everybody can look at. For me, I put some faces on it. So I wasn't just this blur of fear. The first fear was the fear of rejection, right? I'm going to call Kevin Harrington up from Shark Tank and say, hey, you want to be on my show?
41:40And he's like, well, how many episodes have you done? Can I, you know, I'm like, oh, you'd be the first. So, but here's my solution to that first one. Never reject yourself. When someone bought another brand versus me, oh, another salesperson could have gotten a yes. Or maybe they're right. Maybe my product isn't good. So when you don't reject yourself or what you're offering, then that gets up. Then the next fear I had was, well, the fear of failure. What if I launch this and nobody listens to it? I'll be embarrassed, wasted time and money. And then I just said, wait, failure is just feedback.
42:10We keep going as entrepreneurs until we get a zombie idea so great it won't die. And then the third one that almost stopped me was the fear of the unknown. What mic do I buy? How do I host? I've been a guest, but how do I host? How do I put this up on iTunes? Luckily, I found somebody, that's their whole business, done for you podcasting. And so the solution of the fear of the unknown is don't go it alone. With those three faces, the first one, rejection, especially having a sales background, you have experience in. But for those of us who maybe haven't had that before, and now we're looking at, okay, I'm interviewing for new roles, or I do want to push my idea forward.
42:47That is often the scariest one. And especially, we've laughed about this on the show, helicopter parents, lawnmower parents, we've been so protected from rejection. And we go to apps because the rejection doesn't hurt. We look at all these different ways to avoid it. How can we, if we haven't felt it before without experience, get over that fear of rejection? First party is never reject yourself, even if you get the no. And no now doesn't mean no forever. And then the secret sauce is resilience. Everyone's going to get knocked down in your life, no matter how successful you are. How fast you get back up after you've gotten knocked down is the secret to not taking rejection personally.
43:27Is there any mantra that you could give our audience to lean into? Because one of the things that when we have our classes, for instance, failure, it's easy to look at failure as feedback because you're not having that term in there. If I told you not to look at the pink elephant or think of the pink elephant, you're going to think of it. So if we look at rejection, it was like, well, we're not going to reject ourself. It's going to be in there. So what do you recommend for people to lean on when it comes to that very fear? If you're not rejecting yourself and not taking it personally, if you go back to the book, The Four Agreements, it says, don't take anything personally.
44:00Don't take rejection personally. You know, it's not a fit. doesn't mean no forever. I go up against other speakers all the time. They go, look, it's between you and two other people. And, you know, sometimes I get them and sometimes I don't. How fast do I let that go and move on to the next versus going over and over in my head about, you know, all the negative self-talk. We have to replace that negative self-talk with something I call stacking our moments of certainty. Right. So I encourage people to write down two or three times when you knew you nailed it. Interviewed and got the job. Asked somebody out on a date, got a yes.
44:31Whatever it was, remember those moments of certainty and then remember how it feels. It felt happy, exuberated, confident. And when you associate that, that's what you replace that negative self-talk with. Instead of thinking of yourself as a perfectionist and even applauding yourself for being one, and then that just causes you to micromanage everything and never be happy, you can still be motivated. So the new phrase is become a progressionist, which is someone who celebrates their progress. So if you're climbing Mount Everest and literally, or as a task and you're halfway up, you have a choice.
45:04You can look back and go, look how much progress we've made. Or you can look up and go, oh, look how much further we have to go. We're never going to make it. We're going to make more. It's not going to be perfect. All of that just contributes to paralyzing yourself into not wanting to try something new or feeling if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing. So if you shift that, because it's never enough to tell people, don't do this. You always need to replace it with something. So this concept of celebrating your progress, and if you have a support partner, someone you work with, your coach, whatever it is that you guys offer, that I tell people, open up your meetings, your weekly meetings with, we're going to celebrate progress first before we go into whatever else is on the agenda.
45:46Man, it shifts the energy. So like, oh, I'm a progressionist. I'm not going to focus on what didn't, we're further along. You're going to need to go. Losing weight, you can torture yourself, right? I didn't lose this by, well, I made some progress. I lost one pound instead of 10. Okay. Your choice. What are you going to focus on? Next, our good friend, Dr. Stephen Hayes, discusses how our inner dictator takes control of our beliefs and actions, and how the act of diffusion can help uncuff us from its grip. Well, dictator comes from the Latin means to dictate, to speak, and we're being spoken to inside our head.
46:21And even little kids, four-year-olds understand, you know, goofy with horns on one shoulder and goofy with a halo on the other. We got that thing going on from that age forward. Certainly. I think that's where connectedness comes from. I mean, if you're exposed to it all day long and you have no one around you to check in with about this voice, about what you're feeling, about what's going on, it stands a chance to take over. Yeah. And we don't talk about our insides easily and we compare our insides to other people's outsides. So we're walking around with this big secrets that we've got like this goofy with horns inside our head, this dictator within.
46:59But, you know, everybody around you does too. I mean, that person who looks so accomplished, so smooth, you know, no, if you get inside that person, but, you know, we've all got the same secrets and that's the biggest secret of all. That's the one we'd never tell any. So we feel so alone and disconnected when in fact, these kinds of struggles and stuff are exactly what connect us yeah if we just would even trust that and open our mouths we would find people around you and when i talk about my anxiety disorder history for example i was just on a podcast yesterday a pretty well-known person started talking about their panic history you know well of course you know i mean this happens over and over again that when you start showing up inside your own skin and being a little more open about it, you give permission for other people to do the same.
47:53And guess what? They're like you. They're like you. You're not alone. It's your mind that's telling you that you are. And you're allowing it to dictate to you that way. And that's a powerful one, because we're the social primates. That's the kind of creatures we are. And if we're alone, we die. You know, literally, if you kind of back up with our evolutionary history, You don't want to be the monkey cast out from the troop. Your survival rate's going way down. Way down. And so we're watching, you know, are we going to be included? Are we going to be included? Well, another one is reigning in the dictator within.
48:24And there we get into some pretty fun stuff, you know, where we have a term for it. We call it diffusion. It means basically to take our thoughts, which often come up on us so close that we can't even notice that we're thinking. You know, just like, I am bad. I'm unlovable. not am I having a thought I'm bad or I'm having the thought I'm unlovable if you just teach people to say that their whole brain lights up differently you know you're in a completely different world if you're having the thought that you're unlovable and you actually say that to yourself versus I'm unlovable and so we give people a whole bunch of little micro skills that they can use some of them are amusing so I worry about it a little bit because people may hear that I'm you should learn to ridicule your mind, but it's not that.
49:10So if I can correct that, but I'll start there because it's just fun. You know, somebody has a thought that's really up on them right now. That's very self-critical. Get that thought kind of written down into four or five words and then sing it to the tune of happy birthday, literally out loud. Nobody do it when nobody's watching, you'll be able to, and just see what happens. You know, there's, there's a little space that opens up that you can have that thought and still do different things. And I walked through quite a number of these little micro skills in Liberated Mind. But one I always like mentioning because it softens it and people will not think that what they're doing is ridiculing themselves.
49:50Take that same thought and think of yourself as young as you can go when you still had self-doubt, self-criticisms, kind of like that. The content might have been different, but the basic theme. Picture yourself at that age in front of you and then take the time to actually hear out loud in that child's voice those thoughts. Make them come out of his or her mouth and watch what it pulls from you. And almost always what it pulls from you is compassion. You want to hug the kid. You want to tell him it's okay. But then you get up in the morning, you're brushing your teeth and you're looking at the person grown up and you're saying the harshest damn things to that person in the mirror.
50:30Oh, you're not going to be ready. What's the matter with you? You should have done better. You know, yesterday you really blew it. You know, it's tantamount to getting that young kid in front of you and slapping him and saying, you know, snap out of it. And it's so harsh and so unloving. But if we can bring, so the diffusion skills are kind of prying this language monster off our face just enough that we can see it. It's like a hand that's in front of your eyes versus a hand that's out at arm's length. The same thought is there, but it functions completely differently. If it's out at arm's length, you can see what else is around you.
51:03And you don't have to necessarily rewrite what's on your hand in order to have some choices about what to do with your behavior. So instead of trying to argue your way out of it, carry your history with you because it comes with you. You know, if I say Mary had a little, I know what you're thinking. If you really tried, say, okay, I'm going to fix it. Let's say it was really bad. And you're going to say toothbrush, Mary had a little toothbrush. Yeah, but if I go like this, you know, hot, you'll think cold. Toothbrush, you'll think lamb. So even if you try to push it out, you've now created yet another avenue to it.
51:43It's not farther away. It's closer now. Because now when you're thinking of something else, it can lead back. You know, when I was struggling with anxiety, if you said the word relaxation, I'd have a panic attack. it's an actual empirical phenomenon it's called relaxation and there's panic because of course it reminds you of it in the same way if i went hot you'd you know think of cold or white you'd think of black and now toothbrush lamb thanks to old bald guy you got that stupid thing in your head and by the way there's no delete button in your nervous system there's people who are listening to this so the next time they're brushing their teeth they're going to say, why am I thinking about lambs?
52:24Thanks for that. We appreciate it. That's the way the nervous system works. So instead of running away and fighting and hiding, which only builds it, could we find some ways that don't eliminate it, but give it a little space or distance so you can have that thought without it having you? And we call that diffusion. And it's a really fun area of work. There's hundreds of methods, but there's a bunch in the book and actually in the resources, there's like an act toolkit that people can get to walk through. a whole lot of little micro things that they can use. Johnny, that was a jam-packed episode helping you unlock one of the biggest keys to success, grit.
53:01When you build resilience, you create momentum necessary to reach your goals.
53:15Thank you for joining us for another amazing episode of the Art of Charm podcast. And now we'd like to feature one of our members of our X Factor Accelerator. Take it away, Tammy. Hey, everybody. This is Tammy. And as a retail business owner, the old saying, you know, it's lonely at the top. It's true. I joined X Factor because I wanted to be in a group of people who were kind of on the same level that I was, who were trying to live their best lives. And it has been an amazing community to be a part of. I am an X factor with people who are really trying to create their best future and their best lives.
53:54And I highly recommend the program to anybody who's thinking about it. I don't think that you'll ever regret it. To invest in yourself is the best investment you can make. Thank you, Tammy. And it was a pleasure working with you too. And good luck with all your future endeavors. If you've gotten value out of this or any of our podcasts, please head on over to your favorite podcast player and rate and review the show. it means the world to us and it helps others find the show. If you've listened this far, you're probably somebody who understands the value of building meaningful connections and expanding your network.
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55:00What makes our program stand out? We focus on leveraging your unique interests and values to create powerful, lasting relationships. Ready to take your networking game to the next level? Head on over to theartofcharm.com slash SC and watch your free social capital training today. Don't miss out on this opportunity to transform your social life. That's theartofcharm.com slash SC for your free social capital training. Elevate your network. Elevate your life with social capital. All right. Before we head out, a huge thank you to our producers, Michael Harold and Eric Montgomery, and go out there and have a special epic week.
55:40Yeah, I remember you. You were a bad boy. You threw your love away. Like it was just a toy. And you sold the world. You're a song of a tragedy. Cause you had your taste. All black on yesterday. Yeah, but I remember you. Oh, yeah. And now, if I'm mad, I'll never run away.
From the publisher
In today's episode, we review the greatest hits around building resilience and leveraging social skills to get you closer to your goals, drawing on our insightful conversations with Angela Duckworth, Laura Huang, John Livesay, and Steven Hayes.
Life gets rough. It’s important to develop good habits while things are going smoothly so when the seas get rough, you have a strong baseline to fall back on. Grit and resilience are integral to your success in life because they make the tough times easier to push through without feeling like the world is collapsing around you.
What to Listen For
Introduction – 00:00:00
What is the difference between talent and effort?
What is the foundation for reaching your goals and how do you make it strong?
What are the two P’s you need to push toward your goals?
This always beats talent alone – 00:09:48
What should you focus on if you want to be the best and you weren’t “born with talent?”
How do you maintain your passion in something when you keep failing at it?
Breaking down goals to make them easy – 00:14:48
How can you break down goals and objectives in a way that makes them feel easier while also motivating you to stick with them?
What can you do to stop getting caught up in the past and focus on the future?
How to trust your gut – 00:24:05
What can you do to develop your intuition and learn when to rely on it?
What will always outperform hard work in the world we live in now?
Why is “just be yourself” terrible advice even though there is a kernel of truth embedded in it?
Overcome your fear of rejection today – 00:34:46
What one exercise can you do today to overcome your fear of rejection so you can push forward after every “no” without missing a beat?
What is the secret to not taking rejection personally so you can maintain your focus and mood in the face of overwhelming rejection?
Stop letting your inner critic dictate your life – 00:41:42
What can you do to release the death grip that your inner critic has on your life so you take risks and chase your big goals without fear of failure?
Why do you need to develop competence?
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