Antonio Tarver: The Roy Jones Knockout, “Any Excuses Tonight?” & The Greatest Story Never Told

33:25I was his mandatory. I was only 17 and 0. And I told everybody if Roy would have fought me then, I don't know if I'd do as well. I said that. Just being honest, because I'm an honest guy, I ain't going to blow no smoke. I probably would have did good, but not good enough to cause the controversy that the fight, the first fight did. And that controversy is what got him back in the ring because Roy Jones never heard nobody boo him before. Yeah. Roy Jones never heard the whole crowd booing before like come on bro. So he's a guy with pride now. He's a guy with pride. He could have left and ran off into the sunset after that first fight.

34:08But really what would y 'all thought of him for real for real knowing that he ducked his toughest competition. That ain't what we give praise for. They didn't do that with Sugar Ray when he lost. They didn't do that with Ali when he lost. They didn't do that with Tyson. They didn't do that with nobody but with Roy. Yeah. Let me say this. So, my dad had just died 2000, 2002, I think, right before the Clinton Woods fight. I'm going through it. Roy invited me out because, you know, we got the J Prince connection and he beat, he beat Clinton Woods and I remember being three, four rows behind you. You was in a post-fight press conference like this with your manager.

34:47I don't know who your manager it was that time, but you was letting him listen to it on speaker. I'm like, this dude really trying to fight Roy, bro? Like I knew who he was and I knew, you know, the history and stuff like that. And then fast forward to the John Ruiz fight a year later or eight months, nine months, whatever it was. You go from just sitting in the post-fight press conference to now you interrupt the post-fight press conference. So this man just became the heavyweight champion of the world. and I'm paraphrasing. You can fill in the blanks. You interrupt. I want to ask you a question.

35:20You're going to continue to duck me? And I remember sitting there and I remember watching this stuff and in my mind, I'm like, Roy, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't take the bait. You're the heavyweight champion of the world. You were still light heavyweight at that time. Right? I don't even think you're the best fighter in Florida and I'm out to prove that. How much do I have to go through? Who do I have to beat in order for me to get my opportunity at history? All right, where's the contract, Roy? I'm ready. Okay. I ain't going to say nothing, but his ass is mine. Before I retire, if I don't type one more press anymore, his ass is mine.

35:52Don't y 'all think I'm letting him off. I just don't really want to talk about it because we got bigger things that we here to celebrate. We ain't here to argue. I ain't here to negotiate. I'm here to celebrate. Roy stopped the press conference. He said, hold on, hold on. I'm going to whoop you. I'm going to whoop you. And I remember like, I remember just thinking like, no, don't do that. Like, that's one of them ones, man, where, and this don't help your cause, but if I'm Roy Jones and I just became the heavyweight champion of the world, I can't acknowledge you like that. Hey, bro, that's one of them ones you sit there and you say, look, bro, I understand what he's doing.

36:30But, hey, man, I just became the heavyweight champion of the world, man. You got to come up and get your weight up, man. I'm a heavyweight now. Ain't nobody ducking you. You know, I just fought the heavyweight champion of the world. I ain't scared of you, man. Next question. Right? But you kept pressing for that thing, and then it actually happened. But I remember being in that press. I seen the one in Portland, Clinton Woods. But then I seen it. When you interrupted him, I just knew that was bad. I was just like, don't do it. I'm thinking this as a kid. I think I was like 17, 18 or something like that.

36:59And I'm like, don't do it, Roy. Now, when you say that, don't do it, I could agree with that. if you would have saw the first fight first, I can agree with you saying that. That was before. This was before the first fight. Yeah. What make you think, why would you say in the things you were saying? Roy Jones, this Roy Jones. He can't know. You ain't seen nobody come close to beating him. Because I can't fight everybody. But you ain't seen nobody come close to beating him, right? He ain't lost a round. Ain't nobody been competitive with him. What make you think I'm the guy? Tell me that, Dre. What you mean?

37:33You saw something that Roy didn't see. obviously. Well, you dangerous. And I wasn't even, that was before the first fight though. I'm dangerous, that dangerous? Yeah, well, number one, you got history. You got history. Number two, you really want this fight. What do you see? What do you know that the world don't know? That's number two. Number three, you big for the weight class. I know he went up to heavy, but I'm saying for light heavy. You tall, rangy, you got the left hand, right hook, all the stuff. We just don't play with that unless we have to. If I can't get through this door without going through you, I'm a fighter.

38:16What's happening? Let's get it on. But if it's another way to get to where I'm trying to go, man, I'm... Nah. Nah. I just became the heavyweight. It ain't no bigger crown. There's no bigger crown. and i respected the hustle i respected the confidence because you was following him around he's fight so after that john ruiz post fight press conference he said what he said what are you thinking and then when did the phone ring for a potential fight to actually happen man i i felt like i had to make a statement then because i had been patient i knew you know that was just he was just running out of bag and cool but i knew i was his biggest threat bro i knew i was gonna give him the fight of his life how though 13 years old we had already did it but he way better now you way better now too but some things are meant to be dre some things are just meant to be bro and i feel like this man i was born for this and uh it was my time i felt like roy was as great as everybody thought he was but he'd never been in there with someone that can process see this thing as clear as me had the trainers i had uh come on bro had the experience i had you know i was an orthodox fighter once i didn't know that yeah i taught myself southpaw really when i came back to the amateur at 1819 see roy ain't never seen me southpaw he fought me when i was orthodox and when they first i first learned how to box orthodox see that's what i was gonna get a heavyweight division that they hadn't seen i was gonna fight heavyweights orthodox gonna beat them bro you see what alexander usek doing right now come on bro i was before my time imagine if we had social media in that press conference bro imagine that come on man i i'm past i was before my time about two years let me ask you this you in his shoes and you got a light heavyweight that you got history with trying to fight you you're gonna you're gonna come down off your throne as a heavyweight champ and give him a shot somebody that's hungry somebody that's desperate like that if this man is proving to me that he's the next best up i'm gonna give him a shot because i'll be a duck if i didn't but how's he a duck when he had i'll be mike tyson was talked about holyfield was talked about but they fought their best competition they fought each other but they fought the money they fought each other and we can't we can't go up to heavyweight and come down I can go up the heavyweight.

40:46I went up the heavyweight. I know you did, but I'm saying from Roy's perspective, you can't put on 25 pounds of muscle. Roy didn't have nobody else to fight, bro. It was a wrap. Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield. Tyson was out the game. No, he wasn't. They was in the game, but they was halfway out. I'm just telling you, I was his biggest challenge, his biggest threat, his biggest fight. Period. Would you have fought you if you was in his position or would you have said, man, where that Tyson money at? I would have had to, Dre, because I'm about that, Dre. I would have had to. You would have lost the muscle, too?

41:15I'm trying to figure out why you ain't want no smoke with me. We're going to get to that. I'm trying to figure out why you ain't want no smoke. We're going to get to that. You idolized the guy. Hold on. Ain't nobody going to knock my idol out. And I ain't going to get his ass in there. We're going to get to it. I'm going to fight the guy that knocked my idol out. Let me get to it now. Because I want to get to smoke with me. Let me get to it now. You heard me? You want to smoke with me? Man, if that's right, we going. Dre, you already know that. If it's right, we going. I don't think we ever. If it's right, you never called my name about no fight with Dre.

41:41But I'm saying, was it ever realistic from your end? Not really, because I was on the Cruiserweight. I had moved on the Cruiserweight that time. Size and age. Like, you was a little bit before me, and I was coming up. Yeah, you was really young. So I never had a real opportunity. You never came across my team. When you became the guy at light heavyweight, I was gone. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So it was a little too soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little too soon. But yeah, bro, that's how I feel. But I think you did. I think you done thought about it, though. I ain't never think about it, no. Because I think I seen a comment or something.

42:10it was a post of something saying something and you said something it wasn't nothing like super you thought it was about you no i know because it was me it was about me when i said but it wasn't nothing disrespectful but you said something like yeah look my way something something that was subtle but not so subtle i'm gonna tell you what i say if if somebody knocked my idol i i'm gonna i would have to go get them and i just didn't understand but i know prince jay prince probably wasn't gonna sign off on that but it never it never was a thing though even when when you when When you fought Roy the third time, I was on that undercard.

42:42I was a baby. Your first fight was on my undercard. Gleon Johnson. Staples Center. Yeah. But, nah, listen, man. Listen. You can't fight everybody. You can't fight everybody, Dre. But when you work as hard as I did, bro, you got to get that man a shot. And I think Roy knew. Roy knew that. You know what I mean? He saw how hard I worked to get up there, bro. I took chances, Dre. Ain't nobody taking these chances I took. If I'm Roy, though? But his career with that, no, it wouldn't have ended right, bro. He a heavyweight. I wasn't going to let that end right. I wasn't going to let that end right until I got my shot.

43:19Yeah, he couldn't retire without facing me. No, he couldn't do that, bro. I would have said Antonio. He would have been the laughing stock of boxing. I would have said Antonio. Hey, man. He would have been the laughing stock of boxing, bro. I respect you. But, hey, man, I just won the heavyweight championship. Come be the real heavyweight. Get you a belt at heavyweight. Then we going to get it on. In the meantime, I got Tyson. I got Holyfield on my line. And maybe what happened never happened. You did joke what you were supposed to do. But guess what? If it wouldn't have happened like that, it would have happened some other kind of way.

43:52Because the magic was going to come through. You willed that thing to happen. I'm telling you. And Mike Tyson could have got it too at that time. I wasn't playing. When we did the movie with Sylvester Stallone, they was trying to put that together too. Right then. Mike told me straight to my face, I'm out the game, bro. I ain't even doing it no more. I respected that. But the Roy Jones-Tarver was what it was. We both from Florida. And, man, my mom, that was her favorite fighter. My family loved Roy. My son, everybody got respect for Roy. But at the same time, bro, I had to come through. Let's talk through that first fight, man, 2003.

44:33I was in the building. I was in the nosebleeds, too. I was in the building. And talked me through that fight. in training camp for that fight, was Buddy with you at that time? Buddy McGurk. Buddy was with you, okay. Buddy McGurk. Did y 'all factor in the fact that he was going to have to lose the muscle that he built up for the John Reese fight? We never thought about that. You never talked about it, never considered it? We never talked about that. It was never a strategy. That was never an issue until after the fight. Never an issue until they said that on the screen and everybody ran with it.

45:02But it's real, though. Not saying it's the reason he won the fight. I don't know how real it was when you know I'm this is my regular size I was always a big light heavyweight at light heavyweight the amateur weight class was 178 yeah I'm 26 27 years old having to lose three extra pounds yeah now after my body has gotten adjusted yeah all these years to the 178 them three pounds almost killed me yeah every time yeah and I was having to lose 200 you look sucked in at the way I'm This is right here. I'm 200 all day, and I'm having to lose this weight. That's why I never put a lot of stock into it.

45:39The first fight, bro, go look at that fight, bro. Look at how active, how many punches roared through. Look at how much the ebb and flow between both rounds. I couldn't see he lost a step. Talk me through it. I couldn't see that he lost a step. Talk me through that fight. And that was the whole misconception. He lost it. He wasn't the same fight. No, you just see a different fight in there with him. you see a different fighter that's all and when you put me under the microscope show me my weakness show me my weakness i got power in both hands i'm a destra really if i want to fight orthodox i can i got a crazy jab one two three combination body defense i ain't never been cut in a boxing match 23 years and amateur how many pros how many champions can say that i'll wait defense is the key bro you never seen nobody slamming nothing around on me bro they miss more than anything the hardest thing to do is land a shot on the magic man come on bro talk me through that first fight man my trainer jimmy william bro is the it's the reason behind it all i was advanced at 10 years old 11 years old come on bro what was the game plan for the first fight man beat his ass that's the game plan and i beat him with skill talent technique everything the first way the first time by the scoring how you score judges how you score fights is how i beat him ring generalship aggressiveness i landed a lot more i so i thought i won that fight what are you seeing and feeling from him as the fight fifth six seventh eighth ninth round what are you seeing and feeling oh he trying to make adjustments okay i was never it was never a done deal with roy jones jr he's always trying to find that punch on you and he's fast bro you got to be ready for everything you feel me and so preparing for roy you just had to be the best you had you could be the best you could be and don't leave no stone unturned so it was i mean i had to dig deep just ain't gonna man that man was there bro throwing combination look at how that and finish how he finished that that fight but i took something out of Roy that night that that was it the first fight the punishment he took that night allowed me to do what I did in the rematch it wasn't nobody else bro and so at that time I had arrived but they took everything from me I ain't get no glory no credit or nothing they made every excuse in the world why I did what I did they made every excuse in the world right now you no excuses and you know boxing better than anybody bro you can't fake that ain't nobody gonna let you win nothing they never gave me nothing so i had to earn everything so you know that yeah so if they wasn't giving me nothing come on bro i had to work twice as hard so what you thinking before when they when they announcing the scorecards i'm hurt what i'm saying before they said the winner what are you thinking i thought i won a unanimous decision thought you won it i thought i won a unanimous decision especially when they said 117 111 how bro i'm i'm mind blown i'm bro but my but bro they stole bro yeah that's all that i kept thinking they stole it from me bro i came in with the belts even though he was the superstar i get that i came in as champion ain't nobody take my that night nobody so i had to get my back bro thank god for the wbc jose sulaiman for for mandating that rematch and i'm thankful for don king for putting that bread up again for us to get that rematch man you ain't gonna like this but i'd have slid on you if i was roy i'd have said bro i want to fight you we gotta fight a heavyweight though we would have fought a heavyweight and guess what would happen the same thing yeah the same thing drake yeah yeah the same thing bro talk me through it look so the first the first fight in you heartbroken you thought you won what's that night like the next couple days like the next week or two like what you what's what's happening around you what you feeling after the first fight i'm just hurt bro um i'm telling everybody that would listen i got robbed uh they made every excuse in the book why roy even was competitive i even you know went the distance with me but they couldn't see what i was doing they couldn't see what i was doing and um i don't know nobody ever said i was an easy out in a fight i don't know nobody say i'm an easy out so i'm the worst kind bro i'm the worst kind you want to see in front of you because i ain't gonna quit and as long as i'm in there breathing i'm trying to knock your ass out so that's how i was raised that's how i was raised in the game and I had three of the best trainers ever get in the corner.

50:50Jimmy Williams, he'll never get his just due. He'll never get his just due unless I tell his story. One of the greatest trainers ever, bro. You talk about Emmanuel Stewart and all that. He was dad in a lot of things. He had the history. You feel me? He always taught me about pride, bro, about how much pride you got to have in yourself and how you got to really show these people who you are. and I took that to heart. They not going to give you nothing. They not going to give you nothing. You got to show these people, bro. And so, I had a hell of a career though, bro. The chances I took the risk, it was living on the edge, bro.

51:27And I wouldn't change a thing. You feel me? It was harder for me. I thought you was going to be cool and be chilling because they're Hall of Fame. You still like something like, you still got, you still feeling some ways. No, I ain't feeling no kind of way, but the energy going to always be there. You feel me? The energy there. You feel me? So, you know, that's what it's all about too, man. The energy, bro. And I've been trying to spread this energy over the whole boxing game, over the whole boxing game. But you got to come to Tampa to get it. The energy sold separately. But if you get this in your system, bro, this is what you need.

51:58If you want to, you know, do some great things in this sport and you got to have somebody in your camp that really know what's going on. And I ain't doing a lot of talking, but I ain't got it. You ain't got to tell me I'm one of the best trainers in the game. I might be the best trainer in the game right now today. Don't even have but one, two fighters. I got two young fighters that I'm working with. But tell me a trainer got my experience in big fight play. I don't think so. Tell me a trainer that got my experience, bro, when it come down to the years I've been in the game. I can help these fighters at the highest levels.

52:35And I just keep seeing them get in there time and time again, needing what I can give them, bro. The energy that can change these guys life just like my life will change for the better And you can reach that mount top bro. You gotta have somebody to guide you though. Cause you don't know where that mount top at I live there. That's my address. You heard me You feel me bro? That's what I want to share with the world bro. Come to Tampa and get this energy bro So you can get your life right so you go out here and be the champion you want to be. They might not want to deal with that humidity, man.

53:10Huh? They might not want to deal with that humidity. Just as long as, oh yeah, the humidity going to be tough. They might not want to deal with that. But their skin going to shine like mine. They might not want to deal with that. So back to the first fight, when did you first start hearing about a potential rematch? Who initiated? Who called? What was that like? No, we protest that night, bro. It was in. It was in. Everybody in Vegas knew about that. You know, yeah. Yeah, we protest that decision. You know, we felt like a big injustice had been done. But when did it become real? Like, yo, he's on board.

53:44Oh, I think about four months after that. Four months? About four months after that. Did you think you were going to get it initially? You thought he was going to go another day. I was pursuing that fight. I'm on the phone with Suleiman all the time. I'm talking to folks, bro. Like, I need that get back. I want that fight again. I want that rematch. That's all I'm looking for. That's all I'm praying for. And, bro, we just went to camp, man. It just was the best training camp. Yeah, what was that camp like? I never worked so hard and focused in my life, bro. And I didn't even know what I – I didn't think at that time I was going to knock him out, but I was training for it never to get back to the judges' cards.

54:24Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was training for it never to get back to the judges' cards. But you can't predict something like that. But when you train and you focus and you gave it your all, You put it all out there, bro. You give room for things like that to happen. You feel me? Because I believed it. I believed it in my heart. And so when the knockout happened, bro, it was just all the hard work I worked for, but everything came to fruition. And I just knew that, man, I would do it all over again. As hard as it was, as painful as it was. And it just got tired of hearing people say that I wasn't him or I wasn't the goods.

55:05they can't say that no more, bro. Because my record speaks for itself. When you look at my record, bro, it ain't but two men got the best of me. Bernard Hopkins, because I didn't get the rematch, and Chad Dawson, because he was 15 years younger than me, bro. Who else? Come on, 15 years younger than me. And Hopkins? That's the worst it got? Yeah. Now, I take that, bro. You seem like, not to say you wasn't focused in the first fight, but the second fight was just a little bit different, you know? and referee Jay Nady brings y 'all together. And you had an infamous line. You interrupt Jay Nady as he's giving you instructions.

55:40You say, you got any excuses tonight, Roy? You guys are giving instructions from the dressing room. Do you have any questions? I got a question. You got any excuses tonight, Roy? Let's not ask questions like that. Let's touch the left and go to work. You got any excuses tonight, Roy? Let's go to work. When did you plan on doing that? How did that come out? Like, talk to me about that. I had a guy who was working with me, Charles Muniz. We spoke about it. He asked me, was I going to say it? I didn't know. I told him, I don't know. That's doing a lot. That's doing a lot. But by the time I got to that dressing room with them gloves on, bro, and I walked out there, I'm like, this is it.

56:14This is all or nothing. Whatever going to happen tonight is going to live forever, bro. I wanted to do something remarkable. I wanted to do something that would stamp my name forever in a day, bro. And it happened for me because I put that work in. I was determined. And if you look at that fight, I ain't back up one time. The first round, he probably had his weight. But I was gunning for him. I wasn't trying. It was going to be like that the whole fight, too. I was going to be in his face, and I was just letting them things go, bro. Yeah. And if you go back and look, I missed Roy seven seconds before I got him.

56:54I missed him with a punch. And my fist went this far past his head. You can go back and look. and the whole crowd said woo woo like they saw it coming and seven seconds later we got him so man when you put that work in you determine you dedicated committed to your game and things like that happen when you don't cheat yourself things like that happen when you don't cheat yourself bro and that was just god rewarding me for all my sacrifices all my hard work and he knew if anybody deserve that, it was me because I put the work in. Back to the focus thing, in between the first and second round, Buddy McGirt said, you're showing him too much respect, champ.

57:34And I remember you interrupted him and said, don't use that word in this corner. Let's get that jab working now. Okay, let's get the jab going. Okay, don't give him that much respect. Okay, when he's backing you up, stay low. Okay, okay, baby, so that was you. Then let's go out there and get yours. You got to be locked in to have that kind of awareness and to be able to check your coach like that immediately in a corner like that. What made you say that to him? Because that didn't sound right coming from his mouth. I'm like, come on, bro. I mean, no, too much respect in the first round? I don't think so.

58:12I didn't disagree with my trainer. He told me to go get my respect. I say, I'll be right back. I went and got it. You heard me? So, you know. But you didn't like that part, though. I didn't like that part, but he challenged me. That was a challenge. That was a challenge to me, I thought. Yeah, that was a challenge to me. Sometimes those trainers have a way of lighting that fire under you. You know what I mean? Yeah. And maybe I needed that at that time because I went out there with a Fury, bro, that when I hit that man, bro, I knew it was over, bro. I just felt it. It just was so clean. The shot was so clean.

58:51He pulls back. You dug down. And as he's pulling back, he's got his hand like this. You come over the top with a straight left. Roy Jones goes down. He gets up. He stumbles to the right side. Hits the rope. Referee waves it all. It's the punch her around the world. Incredible, bro. Incredible. But they made every excuse in the world. And that's why. Even after? Even after that. Who did? Everybody. Everybody. Yeah, they didn't see it, bro. They couldn't. I mean, they've been looking past me all this time, even in the Olympics, even from that. I took the risk, though. If you go back and look at my record, bro, I fought Reggie Johnson.

59:30What was that, my 15th fight? That's two-time world champion. See, they're not looking at things like that. But a real fighter, somebody that's doing their homework, they're going to look at that record. Oh, this man fought Reggie Johnson? Reggie Johnson knocked out my boy for the light heavyweight title, Guthrie, William Guthrie. I know William Guthrie. So, you know, he fought Roy Jones, too, to a tough fight. But at that time, like I said, man, Roy was just on a different level. I think that's what it is, though, Tarver. I think some of it is people not seeing you for what you are. And then the other part of it is that they like, Roy, my man, bro.

1:00:06You broke a lot of people's hearts, bro, including mine. Yeah, I get it all the time. So I think it's that that caused people to feel a way about you. You know, like, you beat Superman. and you like well i should be superman now right they like nah he still got the cape right right and you had your people that's rocking with you and he's like i told you to but it's that it's that it's them people over there that's like bro you you broke my heart yeah you feel me and it's hard for them to see that now my heart you broke my heart too but i knew you was a good fighter i knew you was a good fighter i seen you come up like i said all the way back to you know fighting in philly and and i'm i was a student of the game as a kid so i knew who you were and i was watching you and I saw you going to each one of Roy's fights and hustling for that fight.

1:00:47And that's, man, that was Lampley. It happened. Like, that was the punch heard around the world. Obviously, you static, celebrated, but what's that night like for you? What's the next couple weeks like after you did that? It ain't no more arguments about I thought I won. You knocked out Roy Jones Jr. It's surreal, bro. It's surreal.

1:01:13Yeah. How did your life change? Well, let me ask you this. The second fight, did money go up or did it go down? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, money went up. But, you know, they're going to say you lost or something. They're going to try to play with the money a lot of times. Did it go up the second fight? I think it went up a little bit, but he still got the lion's share. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was really pissed off there, Rob. Because it would have been 70-30 my way. You heard me? And that's a lot of cheese exchanging hands. You know what I mean? But the second, the third, I didn't get, I didn't really get treated.

1:01:41right to the third fight. And we bust that bag down the middle. I'm still, you know, the third fight, it should have been 80-20. But, you know, that's how you get shortchanged in the game when, you know, they robbing you, you having to overcome losses. These things are setting you back, you know, because the check be different every time. What's life like, though? I'm a celebrity, for real, for real celebrity. celebrity going everywhere I go. I'm having to apologize all the time. You hear what I mean? Because like you said, bro, you broke my heart. Yeah. And I asked them how they forgave me. Yeah.

1:02:23I was going to say, I had to forgive you a bunch of times, bro. Thank you, Dre. I appreciate it. I said, man, I forgive that brother. But man, why? You know what I'm saying? And I can see, man, Roy had the culture, bro. Roy was rapping since he was. I was following Roy. I said, I've been a baby. I'm talking about like a kid. And I remember I wrote Roy a letter when I was a kid. Still got it somewhere. Wrote him a letter. And he wrote me back. And it was like, you know, people wrote me back. It was like, he got a fight coming up, you know, against Vinny Pazianza. But man, when he ever in Vegas again, we'll make the connection.

1:02:58And then being with James Prince, even as an amateur, he made the connection. So I'm able to be around him. I wasn't around him a lot, but I was around him enough. And yeah, it was just all of that. it's just all of that it the culture stuff was cool but it was like i grew up watching you real dude yeah and then when i'm saying get to know him personally you even love him more yeah humble guy yeah you feel me is it still smoke with y 'all it ain't i don't think it's ever real smoke but do y 'all like can y 'all be in the same room yes we can we work together man since then and um yeah we can be in the same room bro it was always with me it was always business i don't never take nothing personal.

1:03:36I respect Roy, bro. You won the last two, so you for sure feeling better than he might be feeling. Yeah, yeah. But like I said, if I would have lost to Roy, bro, it wouldn't have been the end of the world for me. You feel me? But I'm saying, if I don't lose, I want to get my hand raised. If you beat me, you beat me. I ain't tripping. Yeah. But I know when I win a fight. That's all. And I'm very keen on that. I know when I win a fight. And I'm the first one to say, man, you got me. It was your day. You know what I mean? But I'm honest, man. If he would have won that fight, I wouldn't have even been tripping on the rematch.

1:04:18You feel me? But that's why I was tripping on the rematch because I knew I thought I won that fight the first time. Right. Eight months later, you riding on that high. You face Glenn Johnson, December 18th. My pro debut, Staples Center. he beat you on a split decision what happened that night what happened i don't know what happened um i don't know what happened i thought i thought i won that fight i didn't feel like i lost that fight um but they gave it to glenn they made him the fighter of the year and all that and i had to get my rematch four months later probably and i beat him in memphis at his own game.

1:04:57I wasn't boxing around. I stayed toe-to-toe with the toughest man in the division and showed him that he wasn't tougher than me. And I beat him at his own game, Glenn Johnson. And then I felt like it was my duty to give Roy another shot at it, bro. We fought the trilogy, which that was amazing, in Tampa. In Tampa. Yeah. His daddy got back with him. I was about to say, I remember he brought Senior back. Yeah, Senior came back. That was crazy. I remember in that press conference that week, Roy didn't shave or nothing like that. He had like a crazy beard. And he came in and said, y 'all said I wasn't going to show up.

1:05:33I'm here now. And then just like walked out. And I'm on the stage. I'm like, man, it's crazy. I don't know what's going to happen. I was front row for all that. I was front row for all that. Okay, you making money, right? You getting some M's, right? what type of businessman is Antonio Tarver at that time? Are you, I just talked to my people, or are you engaged in negotiations, how you manage your money? Like, what's all that like? Well, at that time, we was working with Al Heyman. Oh, you was even working with Al then? We was working with Al. The first fight with Eric Harding, I'm sorry, the second fight, the rematch.

1:06:12That's when it started? When me and Al and Vernon Forrest, my brother Vernon Forrest, God bless his soul, that's when me and Al hooked up and we started running that thing then. Yeah, that's what you see nowadays. That's what you see now. That was the beginning of the whole thing. They tried to leave that out, the story, how Al Heyman really was ushered in the game. You feel me? It wasn't the way they thinking about it. You feel me? It was way before that. What date was that when I fought Eric Harden in the rematch? Because that's where it all started. The second time. The second. Yeah. In Indianapolis.

1:06:45Yeah. That's where. But it was a long time ago. Long time ago. Well, that's where Al Heyman was really ushered into the game as an advisor because he was advising me and Vernon. You know Vernon passed shortly after that. I was the one carrying the torch. I was the flagship. I was the seed that everything came and sprouted off of. Right. You heard me? Then all the other people want to come over to the energy. Just like I told you, the energy, bro. That's how all this came about. But was you in tune with the business? I was in tune with the business. I talked to Al Heyman every day. That was my business part.

1:07:23What type of negotiator was you? Was you pressing hard or was you giving in? I got everything I wanted. I was the first one, bro. Yeah, I was the first one. Six months later, you get that rematch with Glenn Johnson. You avenge that loss. And then you finally get Roy in that third fight in Tampa. St. Pete times for him. Talk to me about that fight. How was that different than fight one and fight two? Being at home, bro, it's so easy to get distracted. You got to, you know, people swing you for tickets, merge. You know, they want you, they think you promoting the fight. But that was the one that I really, at home, bro, I had to be more focused, more locked in.

1:08:07And Roy came to fight, bro. Roy came to fight. He caught me in that third fight with shots that I didn't see. Really? He caught me with shots. Did he ever hurt you? Never really hurt me. He caught me one time all balanced. But the fact that he hit me with shots, I didn't see coming. He didn't do that the first time. You know, first time I was kind of aware of everything. But that uppercut he hit me with, I think in the fifth round, kind of rattled me a little bit. But I had a chin. I was all, every time he hit me with something, I come back. So that's kind of defeating. When you hit a guy and this guy's putting more pressure on you, I just had a chin, man.

1:08:44I was tough. and in any boxing match, a fight breakout. And I'm equipped. I'm equipped for both the fight and the boxing match. So, you know, being tough, you know, has its rewards, bro. And I think that's what you can't measure on the tail of the tape. You can't do that. Somebody hard, somebody IQ. Yeah. And these are the things I was strong at. Yeah. Real strong at. So you beat Roy in that third fight. Did y 'all talk after any exchange in the ring? I always talked after. Even when I won, when I knocked him out. Did he say anything? You set the bar, bro. You set the bar. I never, you know, I'm always loving you for that.

1:09:24You know, because I know Michael Jordan been on these guys' walls forever. You feel me? Guys trying to get up there, the Kobe's and all these guys that's coming from behind. So what that shows me that no matter how great a fighter is, it's always that guy that's up next. You can't underestimate that guy. That's why I would have slid on you in that post-fight press conference after the John Reeves fight. And you would have been known as a slider for the rest of your life. How? I'm the heavyweight champ of the world. I've been fighting since I've been knee high. I ain't scared of no smoke. But you think I was going to let that rest, bro?

1:09:57You think I was going to let that rest? You would have had a choice. I was going to continue to do this. The difference is if Roy was still at light heavy, let me break it down for you. If Roy Jones, I done had about 20 years to think about this. if Roy Jones was still a light heavy he can't slide if he's still campaigning that light heavy and you a belt holder or you that number one contender and you making noise it's a different conversation him going to heavyweight and winning that world title it's going to be hard for anybody to say he a duck he's like I just did it I see the picture I don't need to fight no dude that been watching me and that been mulling over this Sunshine State thing for 20 years and that seen me fight at the Olympics and that fire been burning.

1:10:43You got to be strategic. So you get some people that don't know boxing. Oh, there's a duck. Nah, bro. That's not a duck. To you, it's going to feel like a duck because you're like, I need that smoke and I need my opportunity. But I'm an Olympian too. It's a lot of things. All that stuff is amazing. It's a lot of things going over here to say to say real. I'm not saying you don't deserve it. This is your biggest fight right here. I feel you. But I'm the heavyweight champ of the world though. Okay. check this out but that goes to show you that you know as well as i know that roy wasn't staying there that was just a bad grab gotta stay there that was just a bad grab if you put on 25 pounds of muscle brother we can't come down i don't want to come down making weight is hard enough when i ain't built myself up but if i build myself we don't go up and come down you tell me who came up and came down and had success throughout the history of boxing i ain't talking about five pounds i'm talking about a jump up and then lost the weight and still was the same.

1:11:38Well, I wish... Well, you know what, bro? I had to go... This story was already written, Dre. The story was already written, bro. It was nothing nobody could do to change that. You willed it to happen. Because I... Yeah, I spoke it into existence. I did the work. I believed that dream and it happened for me because I never doubted myself, bro. I never doubted myself. I seen that. You feel me? And I'm seeing what everybody else seeing. I would be the first one to tell you. Yeah. But, bro, when you look at my history, bro, I don't know how else to approach it. I couldn't have approached it no other way.

1:12:23And it could have been anybody, Dre. It could have been anybody. I was going to do it the same way because I had to come through, bro. I had to come through. You had to. You weren't going to get it. I mean, who else was there? I mean, he's the biggest fighter at that time. Yeah, I had to come through. What other option did you have that was going to even come close to that money-wise or prestige-wise? But again, that wasn't like I planned that, bro. When he became a light heavyweight, that's when things got. That's when things changed. If he would have stayed at a super middleweight, he would have been a super middleweight.

1:12:51But when he got to the light heavyweight division, now that's my division. Now we talking. He say you in my neighborhood. You in my neighborhood. Now we got to see who. Because I'm claiming I'm the best. But then he went to another neighborhood, though. He should have stayed up. But guess what? I was going to come up there anyway. Because it was going to happen regardless. Then I just realized I knocked out the reigning heavyweight champion. I'd have slid on you, bro. I'd have slid on you, bro. Hey, Andre, you ain't the first one slid on me. There's a lot of them sliding, bro. And I'd have did it real smooth, too.

1:13:28I'd have told you. I'd have been like, man, I appreciate you, bro. I hear you, bro. Y 'all give it up for Antonio Tarvin This dude he the best Light heavyweight in the world I ain't like heavyweight no more man I'm heavyweight So man come up here man Be the heavyweight number one contender Get a belt we can get it on Gotta look out Next question Honestly I know you too dangerous bro But you know what that's Too hungry bro You will say that now because you know all the results But not knowing all of that I'm just saying because of the heavyweight thing You can't do that if y 'all still light heavy.

1:14:04You can't do that. I did it every fight. I see you. I did it every fight. So I wasn't really buying that. But I'm saying the fact that he did go up and was successful. Ah, man. And it's affected because I know because I talked to Jay. The Mike Holyfield thing, man, it was money on the table. Like, listen, I can't let my pride get in the way. Sunshine State games. Listen bro You come up to heavyweight If I fight Mike Holy And then you come up and it's like Oh he beat the other one He beat this guy We may be able to do something But right now But you foaming at the mouth I can't feed you bro It was my time too bro I had already made some sacrifices You been making them I thought it was just to buy him some more time bro I don't think they really But again if you're going to go all the way out your way to avoid somebody like that like no well i'm saying i don't believe you may feel different i don't believe roy went to heavyweight to avoid you it was the history thing it's the prestige artist that's they probably sold him on that that's my that's what i believe i don't think he was running from that standpoint right um but i'm just saying once you what i'm not saying again you know you're gonna get people that don't know box and they're gonna say what they say you can't fight everybody like i retired and they made up a whole lie about me ducking this one and ducking that one four and five right fought number one twice 20 rounds total but i'm ducking four and five so somebody gonna always find somebody so but what i'm saying is in that situation the way that it was you foaming at the mouth bro and we are not in the same weight class.

1:15:57This dude following me around the country. Bro, I got to give you another obstacle, man. You got to overcome it. You get to heavyweight, man, and you get a belt. Or you be the number one contender. Now the talk is there. Everybody want to see a heavyweight now. I said, man, you a big frame. Go on, come up and beat somebody. I got to challenge you to do what I just did. I got to challenge you to beat a heavyweight like I just did you do that and we still it still makes sense for sure we can do it I just think you called your shot and that was an all-time shot call because that could have went bad for you could have went and and and the world would have forgot about you like oh he thought he was ready he wasn't ready like that that's a that's a different type of confidence to you pulling on Superman's case and now I want to fight him some dudes they not trying to fight him or they'll just take it for the payday as soon as I get hit with them shots that speed instead they get spooked they lay it down so you know me saying what I'm saying is from Roy's perspective of how I think he would handle it but I will always have respect for how you did it the way you did because I saw it I saw it as a kid I saw it I seen the campaign on in real time right and I I mean, social media wasn't popping like that in 2003, but you had to get it out the mud.

1:17:23Like, I'm showing up. Give me a flight ticket. I'm showing up. Right, right. You did that, bro. And I will always respect that, man. Thank you, champ. But in between, you know, the fight with Roy and your next fight against Bernard, you got the opportunity to be in, what was it, Rocky VI? Rocky VI. Rocky my boy, yes, sir. You played Mason Dixon. Yeah. Tell me about that experience and then how the weight gain and all the stuff affected you going back down. Yeah, yeah. Man, Rocky Balboa, Sylvester Stallone. I had met him in 96 after the Olympics. Oh, you did? They flew me into Orlando. We met at Planet Hollywood.

1:17:58Had a big, big sheen dig there with his wife and kids and everything. My family was there. My mom, everybody, sisters. Had a big situation at Planet Hollywood. but never thinking that, you know, he's watching me, following me, and paying any type of attention to me. And then years later, I think about 10 years later, I get a call. He want to ask me to do this big movie, you know, co-star. I'm like, where do I sign up? You feel me? This opportunity of a lifetime, man, is just forever be grateful for Sly, man, for just seeing the ability, the potential in me and giving me that shot. and I think I held it up pretty good and I did what I was supposed to do and we made a hell of a movie, man.

1:18:42It was amazing just thinking about it and forever grateful for Sylvester Stallone. You still getting them residual checks? Oh yeah, they still dropping. Hey man, I'm still getting cream one and two. Still. That's five, six, seven years. I'm still getting them. You know how long it's been for me, so even though they going down a little bit. They go down a little bit, yeah. But you get them for a long time. Yeah, hey, unexpected money is good money all the time. They call that the mailbox money. Yes, sir. So in the fight with B-Hop, man, B-Hop did what Roy did. He went to Mackey, built himself up, and you said you had trouble in that fight.

1:19:18You didn't feel yourself. What was that camp like for you, getting ready for B-Hop? Camp was great. I thought we didn't have no issues in camp. Like I said - I mean, with the weight. I heard you were saying that, man, just being off and the weight gain. But I took some time to get that weight off. I've never had problems losing weight. So that wasn't an issue for you going into the B-Hopper? No, I didn't think so. I thought we had a real good camp. We worked hard for sure. I was in tip-top. I was in great shape. I just didn't feel like myself in that fight for various reasons. And, you know, I don't want to really get into that now because, you know, it's some things that I know.

1:19:51All you got to do if you know boxing, just go look at the tape. Just go look at the tape, bro. And I fought a lot of times. You can draw the comparison. just certain natural instincts natural things that i do like right now was gone you know i'm looking at right hands come at me slow motion hit me bro get out the way can't even get out the way i don't know what's going on but one interesting thing that was said in that fight between the rounds and you have to go back and listen to it his coach told him i had nothing in the second round everybody else might be surprised everybody else might be shocked but it's real simple baby that faint is just like a punch you can't keep working you can't maintain your momentum you can't keep this pace the man say be hop he has nothing tonight nothing but in the second round so you know bro i can go on and on about that fight uh you just gotta put an asterisk by that bro that's what you don't accept that as a as a you gotta put an asterisk by that fight and i'm gonna have to speak on that later i don't really want to give it up right now but that's why i got the greatest story never told because it is somebody got to tell it though you feel me somebody got to tell it and you know they changed history that night bro but all i wanted was a rematch and i couldn't get that it wasn't it wasn't on the table i couldn't get that bro now you push for it yes i push for it what they tell you hold on bro i got the belts i got the championships everything this man ain't even in my weight class he two weights below me and he coming off two losses and i couldn't get a rematch clause that should tell you everything right there you know boxing i couldn't get back and i lost my status right that night.

1:21:52Never got my status back until last week when they crowned me Hall of Famer. They took my status, bro. And that's what they gave Hopkins. And I could have fixed that with a rematch because whatever happened that night would have never happened in the rematch. So, but I never got a chance to straighten out, but I'm three and O in rematches at the time, Dre. So that's how I couldn't get back What I lost that night And even though I won championships after that Light heavyweight and cruiserweight He didn't ruin me like he ruined Pavlik The same way He didn't ruin me like he ruined Pavlik But go back and look at Pavlik fight You saw the same thing bro You can't be blind all the time You go back and look at that fight Who that is in there who is that person in there come on bro best defense in the game never been cut mayweather can't say that come on bro for real so that's that's just that's hopkins bro put an asterisk by i didn't get my rematch they put it in the game come on bro why you feel like you never got your status back I didn't but why you say that because I felt that bro you know status is something different they took my status as a champion bro that night even though I they kept Hopkins on top of me the whole time you feel me so that's how they do bro but why I didn't get a rematch if they so confident and beat me he beat me so easily why he couldn't just do it twice make yourself some more money come on bro That was a setup If it ever was one So in negotiations You tried You pushed back against the The no rematch clause Bro I wanted a rematch I should have never took the fight You could have not You could have walked away from me I should have never took the fight But sometimes Your loyalty can be your Yeah Your biggest Downfall Your loyalty So but Yeah I should have never took that I should have never gave them that opportunity Yeah To screw me over like that bro because if everything was fair, they would have gave me a rematch clause being damn near the undisputed champion and this man coming off two losses to Jermaine Taylor.

1:24:17Why I got to do a favor for him? Come on, bro. Who was your promoter? Al was my manager at the time. So you still messing with Al? Al was my manager at the time. Al presented that to you? Al was my manager at the time, bro. Yeah. That fight still haunts me, bro. It ain't nothing wrong with losing to a Bernard Hopkins. That ain't ain't nothing wrong with that. He's a great fighter great champion But Bernard Hopkins don't outbox Antonio Tarver. Oh no night. Oh No night not technically so you don't give be talking about you don't get me. I'm no crazy I'm the best amateur fighters of all time You don't get me have no credit for you even to beat me no skill for skill But I'm saying you don't give B-Hop no credit.

1:25:02I never I say he's a Hall of Fame legendary fighter No, I'm saying in that fight. He don't outbox me. That's outbox. We talking about boxing now. But he did that now. Dre, we talking about boxing now. I'm one of the best amateurs of all time, bro. Amateurs. That's my game. Technique. The A's and B's. Come on. Hopkins has never been known as a technical fighter, bro. Yeah. So how you beat me technically? I'm asking you. Okay, I'm trying to tell you. I'm trying to tell you. They put shit in the game, bro. You ever seen a setup? That's it. Yeah. A real setup. And I couldn't get back because they ran away with the title.

1:25:45He got up out of there. And if they wasn't so scared of me, why they didn't give me the rematch? That's all I'm saying. Beat me twice. If I beat somebody that was worthy, they're going to get that rematch. Yeah. But beat me twice because, you know, the first time, you ain't no telling what happened. The second time, you're going to tell who the best fighter was. Mm-hmm. Second time I fought Chad Dawson, turned the doggone volume off. You got back in the win column. You lost to Chad twice. I think I was at the second fight in Vegas. In Vegas. That was a real, real close fight, bro. You thought you won that?

1:26:16I could have been giving the decision, but I knew I wasn't going to get a close fight. See, if I don't knock somebody out, I'm losing with an 8-4 card. Eight rounds to 4. I'm losing that fight. 16-12, yeah. that's how it was for me I had to blow them out knock them out anything remotely close they going the other way period so I had to be better than great yeah throughout my whole career yeah because I had other things against me bro old media I had other things against me they couldn't understand me because I was a real one from you know still ain't nothing changed since the day I came into the game yeah all this hate but when they meet me they got their own experience i'm giving people experience bro you're gonna remember when you meet antonio tarvin yeah because i ain't no i'm just regular people that just had a dream had a vision for myself and i went out and got it and ain't let none stand in my way that's what i think all you guys out there should be on that on that vibe bro yeah but you got to be able to see it you got to be able to be willing to do the work make the sacrifice i ain't had no from 20 to 30 i ain't had no life i committed everything to boxing anything was coming around me had to come in that circle because that's the commitment because i knew that other guy was doing the same thing i knew roy was out there doing the same thing clinton woods all these guys that glenn johnson them guys was working bro yeah yeah yeah guys working so i'm proud of what i accomplished i really am bro and i got it out the mud i went through every stage every step and was the best at every level i proved that so you got to understand i don't see why i couldn't be whoever who everything i say i was i i don't i never saw myself any differently i always saw myself as the best.

1:28:23Always. Yeah. Man, the thing is that just happened to be your road. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I had my road. You got, they said, oh, you wasn't this. You should have been that. You should have did this. My road is my road. My lane is my lane. You ain't, you know, selling me in pay-per-views. That wasn't my road. That's not my lane. This is my lane and this is my road. You're going to own that. And the older I get, the more I appreciate my lane. I don't want nobody else's life. I don't want nobody else's career. And I've just learned to be settled with that because the thing is, is I know I did everything I was supposed to do for as long as I could.

1:29:04And I respected the sport. I'm sure I made mistakes in certain places, whatever. You know, you get older, you're like, dang, I wish I could have that moment back. Wish I could have had that period in time back. We're going to do that. That's just part of life. But your road was your road, you know? and your role led you to the Hall of Fame, we got a king's ransom, man, to do something that, you know, that we've been doing since we've been kids. A king's ransom. Yeah, for real. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. So, you know, just be encouraged in that, man, and rest in that, man. And your role is your role.

1:29:35Your story is your story. That's just what it is. I'm not supposed to be nobody else. That part. Them fans, you didn't do what he did. I'm not competing with him. I'm happy for him. Yeah, that part. But I wasn't supposed to be where I was supposed to be. And my story just like your story gives people inspiration and listen to know that man it can happen Y 'all can reach out and touch me. I'm a real person like It's a lot of stuff that my life brings your life brings based on what god did I survived a lot. I got the scars to prove it. I can still talk about I got a story And i'm still out here doing my thing.

1:30:10You still out here doing your thing So I just think man, especially as we get older, we got to just sit back and rest and and i'm not looking to the left or the right My story is my story, and my lane is my lane. And I'm grateful for that because I wasn't even supposed to do what I did. You weren't even supposed to do what you did. No, no, no. We definitely overachievers, bro. Ain't no doubt about it, man. You transitioned into broadcasting. You're still connected to the sport. It's a beautiful thing. And I think the last one I want to ask you, though, is what are your lessons? What have you, like, I know there's a lot of takeaways, but just a couple takeaways.

1:30:44I don't know. Maybe it's about money. Maybe it's about, you know, whatever. What are your biggest lessons that you take away and say, this sport taught me this? That if you're willing to do the work and make the sacrifices, bro, you can become anything you want to become. You can do it. But you got to mean it and you got to know that in your heart is you. Don't try to be nobody else. Be true to yourself and make no excuses. Make no excuses. Drake. I appreciate you, bro. I appreciate you, you know, digging up a lot of them things, man. And, you know, it's a beautiful story, man, you know. And one thing I'm going to always appreciate about you and always give you your flowers for it, man.

1:31:28You believe what nobody else believe. You know, it would be very easy to get discouraged with your belief because it didn't happen right away. You had to fight for it. You had to kick for it. You had to scratch for it. Even though it was against my man. Man, I respect it. And I believe Roy do, too. I respect how you went about what you did, man. You fought the best in the world. You beat the best in the world, bro. And I don't care what they say. You get to that Hall of Fame, man. You made it. Brother, you made it. We appreciate you. Man, that's another amazing episode of The Art of War. We appreciate you tapping in with us.

1:32:13Thank you.