Carl Froch On Biting Andre Ward, Calzaghe Ghosting Him & Leaving The UK

24:10I want to understand who you are. I want to get as much information about you. What do you like? What don't you like? You know, all that stuff matters. And you bring all that into the ring when you fight. So that discipline and the way you prepare was something I had to, I had to, I had to contend with. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't the most confident fighter. I was a bit nervous. I think most people get nervous if they were doing the ring or if they're in the changing room before the fight. You sure hit it, my boy. Because you sound accomplished. Yeah, fake it till you make it. But I was always, I just think, how can anyone not be nervous?

24:42But it's just how you cope with the nerves. And like, sometimes I'd be sitting in the changing rooms thinking, why am I boxing? Like, why do I fight? Why do I do this? I get through to the semifinals of the ABAs and think, oh, if I win this, I'm landing the final. I've got to fight this guy. And this guy's got a Commonwealth Games gold medal. And I'm probably going to get beat. And then I beat the guy. and I think, oh, now I've got him. You know what I mean? It's like there's a monster waiting in the closet ready to come out and get you. So even when I was professional, I'm going to fight for the British title now.

25:08I've had 10 fights. I'm fighting for the British title. Will I get the British title? Win the British title? Yeah, but I probably won't get the European or the Commonwealth. Probably not good enough. And I'm fighting for a world title. I've got Jean Pascal. I'm like, this guy's unbeaten. Commonwealth gold medal. Hard hit it. Tough fighter. This is me now. I'm done. Like, in my head. And I'm like, no, what are you on about it? You've done. Why should he win and not me? I'm having to tell myself. That's the war. I'm going to sleep. Yeah, it's the war in the head. It can work for you too. You know, some people say you're not supposed to have a fear of losing.

25:38And for me, like, I don't know what was stronger for me, the love of winning or the fear of losing. But they both drove me. They both kept me up early and kept me late. And I just, you know, verge just to say, man, you a head case. Because I just obsessed over every detail. you know and that's just how i was wired man but it's like but i think i think there was a couple times though when we did our promo tour there was a couple times when like when we did our sit down with jim gray it's a couple times i thought i saw some nervousness about you but i couldn't really tell you know i'm saying like i just had a moment where i'm like does he really believe what he's saying to me but i always give like when i'm when i'm dealing with an opponent i always give them more credit than I deserve.

26:24So I'm always going to just say, yeah, he believes it. He believes it. Maybe I didn't see what I saw the right way. And that just keeps me sober in my mind where I don't start believing the wrong stuff and then underestimating an opponent. I never wanted to question my fitness, whether or not I could do the 12 rounds. And that's why I started writing my diary down what I'm doing. Because I never knew. Rob told me, do this run, do that run. But I'm like, have I done as much as I should be doing? Did you ever push it past what he said? All I do is just keep the times. So when he said, right, we're doing a run, I'd be like, well, how far were we running?

26:56I was doing 10k, like six miles. How long is that going to take? So I'd do my six-mile run, write it down. That took me 42 minutes. I got the six-mile run down to about 36 and a half minutes, so almost six-minute miles for six miles, which is quite some pace for boxers, because the marathon runners run it in like four minutes 45 or four minutes 50. For 26 miles, it's unbelievable. But if you look at Mo Farah, he's like this big, he's skinny, he's just fly. He's got big lungs and he just floats through the air. The boxers are like triathletes, so we have to have sprint power. We have to be able to sprint.

27:31And endurance. And we have to have the distance, yeah. So we're like short, explosive, and long distance, especially when you're a pro because it's 12 free minutes. It's 36 minutes. You need aerobic and aerobic. Yeah, both. So I'm writing down just the times to start with. I thought, well, I've done that run in there, that run. There's certain runs I've got different names for these. I used to run around Collet Park, used to run around the Hackney Marshes. and every run's got a different name but if I can relate back to that run so when I won my world title against Jean Pascal I knew that I'd done four runs a week, four or five runs a week and I'd done this run, the 10k one I'd done the sprint session, I'd done the three mile run and it's took me this long so then when I'm fighting in my next title fight against Jermaine Taylor, my first defence I'm like I've got to do the six mile in 37 minutes in 24 seconds but then it's like what's the weather like what's the wind like So I'm taking all these factors here.

28:22I've not actually beat that time on this camp, but there's a lot of headwind or the weather, a different time of the year. You know, if it's cold or if it's the summer or if it's the winter, depending on, that's how tuned I was to it. Like, yeah, that's faster. I knew that about you. In the summer, I'm wearing a vest or no top. Got my trainers on. The air's light because it's summer. Like, if you hit golf ball in the summer, it goes further than in the winter because of the air. So I'm running thinking, like, just about getting the time down on my watch. Got to get down to six-minute miles, and that's what drove me.

28:53And I know two, three days before the fight, I go through my diary. Twelve weeks, press-ups, pull-ups, 12-round sparring. Oh, I did that six-mile running, 37, yeah, done that and that. And I'm matching, if not beating, the times. I thought, well, I've done 12 rounds with Jean Pascal, and I hit these times, and I did this many rounds of sparring. And this is how I felt when I did that. So I know, I know I'm fit for the game. So that ticks off one of that nervous. You know when I'm saying, I'm a fit enough, I'm a strong enough? Well, I know I am, so I don't need to worry about that now. No, it's I'm a good enough.

29:24Well, you'll find out on fight night. Because as nervous as I was, and as much as the element of doubt that was in the head, maybe right up until the fight, they say, come of the hour, come of the man. And then that last hour when you're sitting in the changing rooms, thinking I've got Andre Ward next, and I've got Virgil in the changing room, watching my hands get wrapped, and he's saying little things to me like, you're looking nervous, boy. and I'm like, don't fucking, don't wind me up. And my brother's having a go at him. Yeah, they won at him. I've got a job to do. I had a go at Lee because Lee was being disrespectful to Virgil.

29:53I didn't like it. I was like, just keep your mouth short, Lee. Just fucking ignore him. Don't start getting, but that one settled me. So he did a good job, Virgil. I've gone to the ring a little bit angry, but in my head I'm just like, all I've got to worry about on fight night is, am I good enough? And anything can happen in a fight. You know what I mean? but as soon as that bell goes, first round, we're on ding, ding, let's go. The nerves have gone anyway. Like, it's just gone. I'm not in the ring thinking, I'm nervous, what do I do? I'm in the ring thinking, right, I've got someone to hit here, and I've got to not get hit, and I've got to move, and I've got to do what I do.

30:24And it sort of, it takes over, doesn't it? The automatic sort of, it's just subconscious. Who you are is going to come out of those moments. Yeah, it's the truth, isn't it, boxing? Because, you know, boxing can tell on you in front of the whole world. It'll expose you. Yeah, absolutely. But it can also reward you in front of the whole world depending on who you are and how you prepare. You know, Virg, man, he's a master with mind games. Yeah. He's a master. The only problem with that is, is I need you back in the locker room to warm me up. And you over here messing with my opponent. Yeah. And he'll, like, if he saw that they wrapped their hands wrong, he'd let them finish the wrap.

30:58Yeah, and then tell them it's wrong. And then he'd tell the commissioner, hey, yeah, he double stacked. He stacked right there. Oh, really? A lot of times the commissioners, man, they don't, they're not paying attention. Yeah. So I needed him in there because I knew he was going to make sure everything was good. But I'm like, bro, we walk in 15 minutes. Like, I need you back here to hit the mitts. Oh, right. Was he that close, wasn't it? Yeah, but he would always, like, be in there messing with the opponent longer than he should have. And I'm over here trying to warm myself up. So it was like, you know, it was a catch-22.

31:25Joshua Buatze, you know, he trains with us in the States. What is it about the UK fighters, man? He said, you guys don't hit the speed bag very often. You don't shadow box that much. I never used a speed ball, ever. The double end bag. You're talking about that one, were you? This one, that one. Shadow boxing a lot. He's like, are we just shadow boxed to warm up? Why? No, I used to do a lot of shadow boxing. You did? Rob McCracken was like. So, and that's one thing I like about Rob. He's just shadow boxing today. He seemed different than some of the other UK coaches. He was in America. He was in Vegas for a few years.

31:51With Roy Jones. Okay, that's what it was. And he knows, like, he'll watch it. Okay, okay. He'll say, no, you've got shadow boxing. I'm like, shadow boxing is boring. Okay, okay. No one likes it. He says, no, you shadow boxing is important, man. Because I noticed that. I said, man, Rob seems different than some of the other UK coaches. Yeah. As I studied him. Why don't they do that? I'm not sure. I'm not sure because I only learned about boxing correctly, really, from Rob McCracken. And he was very much Americanized, if you like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just took his lead, and I always shadow box.

32:18Sometimes I'd just do 35, 40 minutes of shadow boxing straight through. That's man. Bro, you got to do it. Yeah. And it'd be a bit boring sometimes. You'd think, what am I doing? but you're just moving your feet, slipping and sliding, getting off the center, getting behind your jab, just letting your shots go, having a think, look, slipping, behind your shoulder, and you're just working on your craft and your balance and your technique, and it's so beneficial. You have to do it. I know you're with Hennessy, right? Hennessy Promotions? When did you make the shift from Hennessy to Eddie Hearn? During the Super 6.

32:51Like right before? No, no, it was during. Really? It was after the Kessler fight. So you were with him for your first fight with Durrell? Yes, and... And then you switched. And Mikkel Kessler. Because I had the role, then Kessler. Okay. And I sensed something wasn't right. And that's why I had the contracts for... The contract for the Super 6, that I signed with Showtime. It was Showtime that showed it. I actually had the license agreement put into my company name. So the promoter didn't have to charge of the license fee. I did. so I took every time Showtime paid the promoter, or supposed to be my promoter, they paid me directly, so I was kind of the promoter for the show, and Mick was kind of working for me.

33:36That's how I structured it, because I thought if... I've got to be careful what I say here, because obviously we went through a sort of litigation, it got sorted, but there was a disclosure and an NDA and all that bullshit that you have to sign. But it was a long time ago. But instead of the money going to the promoter and me having to wait for my money, and then I may or may not get it, the money came to me and that was it then i've got it and then he's like well i need my bit now and i'm like well we've got an agreement that you get british tv because that was all american tv and then it was my promoter in britain to get me some british television whether it's itv bbc sky sports ideally sky sports pay-per-view but we got this different tv network which was rubbish didn't do anything prime time on pay-per-view didn't make any money off british tv for that tournament but it was 2008 when i won the title then when the big financial market the big crash in 2008, which affected the world, the whole of the Western world anyway.

34:25So there was no television, really. And I wasn't on Sky Sports. They got Nas and they got... Joe Calzaghi was doing bits. But I wasn't on Sky for whatever reason. I got back on Sky. I was on Sky early on, but they never followed me through the world title. So my career slipped under the radar. So I was very grateful to sign a contract with Showtime after I became world champion. And I think the reason I got the Showtime deal is because of my performance against Jermaine Taylor. So I beat Pascal on ITV, which is our national television. First world title. Yeah. 2008, right? 2008, yeah. So that was a national broadcaster.

35:00So that was watched by millions. So I'm thinking, I'm on ITV, on normal, lineal, terrestrial television, we call it. So everybody who's sat at home on the sofa can turn on ITV and watch me fight Pascal. In the 12-round war, entertaining war, I became the BBC world champion. That should be a household name. But ITV pulled out of boxing after that. Because of the financial crash. Nobody was getting work. TV was no boxing. They pulled out. They drop all the sports. They're trying to save money, aren't they? So I've got the green and gold belt. Sat at home, and I'm like, what am I doing? And then I didn't box.

35:34When was it? I mean, that was... When was that fight? Was that December? I don't know, mind blank. But I boxed... Yeah, Pascal. I think it was December. And I boxed Jermaine Taylor in April. Before we get there, real quick, I want to get to that. But tell me, like, so, Kowzaki's still active. And you're right there. He was nearing the end of his career, Kowzaki. Exactly. So it was almost like Jaron Boots Ennis and Terrence Crawford, where Crawford's, like, looking for the big moment so I can go. And you got the young guy, you know, coming behind him saying, give me the shot. That's what it felt like with you and Kowzaki.

36:08Was that even ever a discussion or was it just a fight that you wanted? It was a discussion, yeah. Because I had a meeting with his promoter, Frank Warren, and said, I want to fight Joe Calzaghe. He's WBC champion. I'm WBC number one. I'm mandatory. Like, when are we getting a shot? And he waited till the final. He kept holding the belt for over a year. And then when it was like, you've got to fight Frodz now. Like, is your mandatory? You have to fight him. He waited till the final day and vacated. Vacated the belt. But then he went, to be fair to him, he went and boxed Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins, I think, in that order.

36:47Or was it the other way around? I can't remember who he boxed first, but he boxed them too in America. And then that was the end of his career. So he was established, looking for a big payday, looking to finish his career on a high. And he's got this young kid from Nottingham who no one's really heard of. I've just beat Jermaine. No, I didn't. I was not a champ. I'd just be a British champion. I was just established. You were trying to get the shot, yeah. And I'm coming up. I've been to the BBC convention and a few people knew me in the scene. Joe Calzaghe knew who I was. You never had interaction with him?

37:20No, not really. I've seen him a couple of times at a couple of events. I don't think he likes me now. It's weird. Still? Yeah, because you know Darren Barker? So he's friends with Joe Calzaghe. They play golf. And I said to Darren, I went, get us a game of golf. And Darren says, I know if Joe Calzaghe met you and spoke to you, he says, I know you'd like him as well. He says, he's sound, he's cool, he's a good guy. I went, well, he's a great fighter. I give him credit. like if you say he was the top three fighters in Britain to come from Britain I'll say Lennox Lewis and Joe Calzaghe and you could you could say Calzaghe takes the first place but you could say Lennox Lewis takes the number one spot but Lewis got done by Hasim Rompon and Oliver McCall and Calzaghe never got beat although he was in a close fight against Robin Reid so I'm like constructive criticism but I always give him his flowers Calzaghe I always say top fighter unbeaten in 46 fights if I'd have boxed him he'd have probably beat me on points but unless I knocked him out, I'd have had to knock him out to win because he's got high work rate.

38:16Crazy work rate, man. I mean, and he's tough. He doesn't get tired. And he's super fit because he's from the Welsh hills. You know what I mean? So he's always up and down. So I give him his credit but at the time when I was trying to get the fight with Joe Calzaghe, I was giving him a **** but that was my promoter's fault. Give him loads of sticks. Say this, say that. And then I think that went against me in the end. Yeah. But I was due to do an event. I did the event actually about two months ago in London. So I jump on a train, go to London, have a meet and greet. Tony Bellew took his spot. But Joe Calzaghi was supposed to be there.

38:49Like all these years later, even though I've given credit, even though I've said to Darren Barker, get on to Joe, I said, we can have an exhibition or something. Turkey LL Shey offered him a lot of money to fight me in an exhibition. And it never happened. I was like, whatever, I don't want to fight. Anyway, I'm retired. I retired 12 years ago for a reason. I couldn't do it anymore. So I'm not going to come back 12 years later and think I can do it. especially at any sort of level You wouldn't do it? I'd fight a Jake Paul or I'd fight a Calzaghe because he's like 50 odd it's like even even playing field not Jake Paul that's not even that's a mismatch but I'd fight Calzaghe in an exhibition because I think it'd be big money I think the fans would love it they'd love the weigh-in and the press conference more but anyway we had this event lined up and I was thinking I'm going to get to meet Joe I'm going to get to stare him in the eyes and shake his hand and say listen I've got no beef I was just trash talking just to get the fight but there's nothing personal You're a great fighter I've got respect for you Fair play to you I fought Robin Reed Dunya in a close fight I fought like Roy Jones was past his best And Hopkins really He could make a case He lost that But you won You retired But see it's that stuff Right there That sort of shit No no no But it's that stuff Right there That's what makes him mad Right there Yeah but That part Yeah but that's me I got you But I'm just saying That's probably what makes him Feel the way Yeah no you're right That is I can't help myself though That's just me saying I can't help myself but we're supposed to be meeting in London not me and him personally meeting we're supposed to be doing this same event and he's pulled out I got a phone call saying have you got a problem with Kyle?

40:19I'm like no he's doing this event and I said yeah son I'm looking forward to meeting him because now he's just pulled out like we've paid him his deposit and he's sent the deposit back really? yeah he's like not doing it yo come on man look we gotta bury the hatchet man this is what we on right now we're pushing peace man we're creating great content and we got to get the fans what they want to see, man. So, hey, we got to bring it together. I need him on the channel, man. I've got nothing but love for Joe Kowd. I went out to his home and talked to him. Of course you did, yeah. And it was great.

40:51He was chill, you know? I think that's going to happen. We're going to figure that out. I don't think it is. You don't think so? No. Come on, Joe. We got to figure this out, dog. I'm not really asking either. Yeah? Yeah, fucking. I think it'd be good, man. So, you know, you had your first world title 2008 2008 and then the fight that got my attention on was a Jermaine Taylor fight. You know, I knew Jermaine Taylor was still very, very dangerous and he was trying to, you know, he's trying to find himself and he fought good. I think he was up on the cards when you stopped him. Yeah. And when I'm watching that fight again, I'm looking at it.

41:26I'm like, okay, you know, Frotch is, you know, seems very sturdy. He doesn't seem to get tired. And he's awkward, but the dude just won't quit. Like, I'm very, very, very competitive. And I know a very, very, very competitive person. You can't measure that. You just have to know. If you see it and you know it and understand it, you just understand it. So, like, it was moments like that where I was like, man, you got to deal with him. Because, and it's not going to be easy. Tell me about that fight with Jermaine and why he got up so far on the cards and what were you thinking as you're trying to stop him, basically?

42:05Well, that was the first defense. I won the world title in, it was December 2008, it was December 6th, it's come back to me now. But I do that now again as fighters, we have mind blanks and it comes back to me now. But April 2009, Connecticut Foxwoods Resort Casino, fighting Jermaine Taylor. I went to watch Prince Nassim Hammond against Marco Antonio Barrera in Vegas. Spent my last$100 on some Mexican next to me saying, my man's going to beat your guy. I'm like, no chance. They're like,$100? I'm like, I've got no money. But my brother went to the cash machine on his credit card. So I took money out he hadn't even got.

42:42And yeah, the guy took$300 off me and my good friend and my brother. And on that fight card, Jermaine Taylor was on the undercard. I can just remember seeing Jermaine Taylor in his lightning-fast hands. And I remember saying, he won a bronze medal in the Sydney Olympics. I should have gone to the Sydney Olympics. So in my head, it was like, that's the guy that... I see him, look how fast, look how good he is. He then beat Hopkins twice, didn't he? But then he lost to Kelly Pavlik. And I thought, he's on the slide now, Jermaine Taylor. Still a good fighter. Good name. Big name. But he lost to Kelly Pavlik.

43:17Then he had a... Did he lose twice to Pavlik? He had a bad... Nah, I think he just... Once. But it was a bad loss. After that, he stepped up to super middleweight and he beat a guy called Jeff Lacer, who was one of Joe Calzaghi's big wins. That made Joe Calzaghi look like Sugar Ray Leonard because Joe Calzaghi was fighting Jeff Lacer, who was like the super middleweight version of Mike Tyson, as far as everyone in England was concerned. And Calzaghi goes in there and absolutely just pummels him for 12 rounds, just outworks him, batters him. So Jermaine Taylor fought Jeff Lacer before he fought me.

43:48That was his first fight at super middleweight. and it's a good win for him at Super Middleweight that is and then obviously his next fight is me so he's stepped up, fought Lacey, beats him now he's got a WBC world title shot against me and he's like who's Carl Frotch? Who's this kid from the UK? I don't even know him some skinny white kid from the UK I think he said and I'm like well I know who you are and I know how good you are but I'm not going to give you any trash talk because I've got respect for him and I just couldn't really pick any holes in him because I thought he's fast, he's a good Olympian whatever and I was nervous and I was thinking but nothing I could do like I'm WBC he's mandatory and there's no TV in the UK so we came over to America and boxed him in the States and I can remember on fight night it was like I'm in a small changing room that's done the same thing put me in a small room with a sofa so Ron McCracken comes in gets the sofa throws it out the changing rooms makes some room gets me on the pads and it's like one minute you've got half an hour next minute you've got two minutes and it's like I went into I've got my gloves on and we've got to put my gloves on and warm up because look you need some pads so we did some pads he said don't worry calm down it's all good no problem but I was thinking I'm not warmed up like I'm not ready I'm nervous I had a bad camp as well because towards the end of the camp I rolled my ankle really bad I was running because I do a lot of night running as well so if I can't be bothered I think I'm going to get up in the morning and run the weather's going to be terrible and I'll look at the weather I'll run tonight and I'll rest the moment and get more sleep depending on how I feel so I'd mix my training up and I think I'm fighting at 10, half 10, 11 o 'clock so I'm going to go on and run at 11 o 'clock especially close to the fight to get my body ready to wake up at 11 at night sometimes you get to a fight at like 8 o 'clock feel like going to sleep sitting in the changing room, tired now so I used to run close to the fight the last two weeks I used to do my runs at the same time when I'd be fighting to get my body clock right so I've gone out running at half past 9 because it's dark and you're not quite looking at the road properly and I've gone from the road to the pavement and stepped on the curb and my ankles flipped, rolled my ankle, done a couple of forward rolls, commando rolls, like saved myself.

45:56Because if I'd just gone flat down and scraped, I'd have had all abrasions on me. But I sort of did a dive, like a commando roll, onto my feet. And then I walked it off, or I thought I walked it off, but my ankle was like doing the ligaments, and my ankle swelled up. And my leg bruised all the way up to my knee. It went black and blue, bruising. So I tore all my ligaments and that. And that was three weeks before the fight. And then sparring, I got a thumb in my eye, and I got a scratch on the cornea, like a corneal scratch. So I had to have a little gauze put on my eyes, like a protective gauze, like a patch.

46:29So I remember the week before the fight, with my ankle brace on and my eye patch on. That's great. And I'm just thinking, I've got to fight him. I've got to fight him. I can't pull out. I'm WBC champ. I'm getting paid like what for me was great money then. It was like$600 ,000 or$700 ,000. I didn't earn much money fighting John Pascal. So I was like, I've got to take the fight. And yeah, so got in there with Jermaine Taylor after about five minutes warm up. Got in the ring. It wasn't a massive venue either, the Foxwoods Resort Casino. It was like an amphitheater. I've been there, yes. The stage at the bottom.

47:04I can remember just getting in the ring in a bit of a daze. Like, I just walked to the ring. Some American got a beer on me, saying, English beer, and shouting abuse at me. because we went down this lift. Come out of the change room, into a lift, went down the lift, the lift opened, I'm in the crowd. It's like, okay, this is on top. It wasn't until I was in the ring looking at the big screen and watching Jermaine Taylor do his little ball run with his foot. He's got his horns open, he's dragging his foot on the floor like he's warming up as they're announcing him. I was thinking, damn, I'm fighting Jermaine Taylor.

47:34I can remember watching him as a kid. It's crazy. And it switched on and I thought, Jermaine Taylor. You have those moments like that as a fighter. It's almost like an out-of-body experience. It is, yeah. You've got to snap back. That's me on the screen. Yeah. It was showing him, then it showed me, and I was like, that's me. It's like weird, because my mind's trying to forget where I am. That's me up there. And then I switched on, but I wasn't switched on, because I come out round one behind my jab on the back foot, like waiting to get hit. Like just thinking he's really, because every time I put a jab out, he'd slip, boom, right hand.

48:02Every time he jabbed, I was trying to block it, and he'd faint and then go to the body, and I'm thinking, he's catching me here. He's too quick. He was too fast. Couldn't catch him. Like, if someone is faster than you, it's a massive advantage in boxing. If you look at all the top, top fighters, they've got speed. Roy Jones was one of the best ever, and he had lightning-fast hands and reflexes. It's such a big advantage. So for two or three rounds, I was following him around, trying to nail him with a shot that was never going to land. And he counter-punched me, hit him with a right hand and dropped me.

48:29So I'm on the seat of my pants in round three, thinking, wow, what the f*** hit me? I didn't even see the punch coming. I literally didn't see the punch coming. I tried one of those stupid uppercuts from out of range, one of the Prince Nassim Hamid ones I was like here it comes through a big uppercut missed by a country mile he just slipped right hand I sort of turned around on my feet and then I'm backing up to the ropes and he just threw a little fake boom over the top right hand straight on the side of my head and dropped me my left leg went I'm sat on my pants I'm thinking now round three first world title defence fighting Jermaine Taylor bad intentions Jermaine Taylor in the States and I just thought right okay that's worked me up there that literally woke me up I went back to my corner the bell went at the right time went back to my corner and Rob went crazy it never goes crazy it's too methodical he gets on you though sometimes if he knows you're not fighting where you need to fight I've seen him man what are you doing mate you gotta yeah but he'll say the right things he'll say stuff like if you had a round off there like you feel alright now you've had a round off it's alright you gotta get on him now now you've gotta push it forward you know what I mean counter punch him put it on him if he says to me put it on him go for him now I know that That's like, I need to do something pretty heavy and I need to get to work.

49:42And after round three, it was like you're leaning in, your defence is all over the place. Just get behind your jab. Every time he comes there, you jab him and just get off the centre. Just jab and centre, and then it will come together. And that's what I did for six, seven rounds against Jermaine Taylor. And by round ten, I started to catch him around the body. He started breathing heavy. He's trying to hold on. And I caught him with a right hand and stumbled back in round ten. And I thought, I've got him. at round 11 I'm thinking I can get him finished in round 11 and I'm backing him while hitting him and Jermaine Taylor's tough he's like a tough strong man and I'm hitting him and he's like I could feel all these bones on his face and I'm hitting him round the body and he's just solid like just tucking up taking the shots and I'm bashing him round the side of the head and I'm thinking I'm hitting him with full body shots here and he's just taking the shots still stood up I dropped him in round 12 and I went out for round 12 knowing I needed the stoppage I know I was behind on all the scorecards with that 10-8 round in round 3 and we've been outboxed for many of the rounds.

50:38I knew I needed the stoppage, so I just thought, just apply pressure on him, just keep the pressure going. And I dropped him in round 12. The referee counted to 10 in about 14 seconds. So he was like, one, two, three. I thought, what's he doing, man? And he just gave him a chance. And then he stood up on 10 and he wiped his gloves and the ref's like, right, go. And I just, 18 unanswered punches. the ref had no choice but to stop it Jermaine Taylor could have just grabbed hold of me held on and then won points and I saw him at the Super 6 promos for the photos and the shoots and I said oh Jermaine nice to meet you really good to meet you, big respect, great fight not spoke to you for like since that probably 6 months ago I said why don't you grab hold of me, why don't you just get hold of me and just like get me in a headlock you only had 14 seconds to go, you won the fight on points And he said, no, man, I can't win like that.

51:36And I thought, what a guy. I can't win like that. He's got to go out on his shield. I fall of respect, man. But I got the job done. I stuck it on him. Did what I had to do, defending my title. And that was then I started to get the recognition. I started to get the respect that I am a world champion. So I started hearing about Super 6 tournament, six-man tournament, double elimination. And I didn't believe it was going to happen. you know my manager James Prince he's telling me he was like he said I'm talking to the promoter I'm talking to your promoter and I'm seeing what they're saying I don't think it's going to happen it was the Sauerland wasn't it Cala Sauerland and the team Sauerland yeah Sauerland Dan Goosen Dan Goosen yeah I think the concept and the idea was the Sauerland their idea yeah I believe so yeah so I was in Mexico on vacation and I'm like I'm like it's not going to happen he said man enjoy your vacation yeah and then it came together and you guys went to the first kickoff press conference in New York.

52:36I wasn't there. I was waiting for you to turn up. I was like, where's this Andre Ward guy? Yeah. Gold medal, Olympic gold medal. He's the golden boy for this. He's the guy that the Americans probably want to win. Right. They were teeing someone up. Yeah, for sure. That's why you never left the States, man. I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that. You did it all your way, didn't you? The golden boy. I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that. I want to talk about that, too. I want to talk about that. So look, I missed the first one And then so Virg called me. He was like, you need to get on a plane now.

53:05I'm like, well, James, he said, get on a plane now. He said, you're going to miss this opportunity. So he was mad. So boom, I leave Mexico, go to San Diego Airport, fly my family back home to the West Coast. Well, I was already on the West Coast, but I went back home, had to get, pack a bag, had like a double ear infection, packed a bag and got to, flew overnight to Germany. Germany, so the second one, yeah. The second leg. So you missed all the first... I missed just the first one in New York. I remember in New York, yeah, getting there. So I remember getting there like, you know, I didn't sleep that good on the plane.

53:38I got an ear infection. I remember seeing you walk around the lobby. You're the only one I saw that morning before the press conference. And I was just kind of watching you. I think we spoke briefly. No, I think we just kind of looked at each other and kind of nodded. So when I went to the press conference, man, to me, my takeaway was that they thought Kessler was going to win. This is the feel that I got from the media. Abraham was sort of proven, and you were like the wild card. Like, man, Frotch is tough, but he's a wild card, so we'll see. I felt like the Americans were getting disrespected because Jermaine was, you know, he was sliding.

54:11Darrell was young, and I was young. So I called Verge. I said, man, they're not respecting us. He said, what do you mean? I said, I don't think they respect us, man. And I gave him the list of who I thought they thought was going to win and just everything that happened in a press conference. But when you saw, when it came together and you knew the other five names that was a part of it, who were you concerned about? What was your sort of internal list? Yeah, because obviously when you're professional and you're unbeaten and you're still developing, even though I was world champion, was you world champion?

54:44No, no, I got my first world title from Kessler in the first fight. Yeah, of course you did. But I was right there. But when you're on that level, I mean, you tell me if I'm, correct me if I'm wrong, But when you're serious about professional boxing and you want to become a world champion and you're in, aren't you? It's everything to you. You've got your family, you've got your wife and kids. I mean, I had my first kid in 2010, so I didn't have any children. And they're like your priority, do you know what I mean? But boxing's your life, if you take it seriously. Boxing's everything. Training, your diet, your coach, gym.

55:20Nothing else matters. So you're looking at this tournament, so I'm looking at this tournament because who's in it? Andre Doreau, who's that? Andre Ward, Olympic gold. So the big difference between a bronze and a gold because I won a bronze in the world championships. I don't even know where it is. Like, I've got this bronze medal somewhere and the first Englishman to win the bronze, I'm not interested. I'm not interested. That means I got beat. That's a trophy to say you lost. That's all that is. That's right. I mean, people might say, well, that's stupid because you did really well and you came third or whatever.

55:48I'm like, yeah, exactly. I'm here to win. and you got the gold. So Durrell was a bit like, even though he was a good fighter, that's Dan's skillful, but I'm not worried about him and I'm looking at Kessler thinking, tough fight, I mean, Calzaghi beating, but in a close fight, I know Kessler had a hand injury, Calzaghi's a top fighter, high work rate, fit, tough, we talked about him earlier, give him his props, but Kessler wasn't right in that fight and he still could have got the decision. So he's like proper world level fighter who don't know about you, but I know you're an Olympic gold medalist you don't win an Olympic gold medal unless you can fight unless you're good but because you're an Olympic gold medal, the golden boy you're going to get because it's an American tournament you're getting groomed here now for the gold medal the champ he's going to win this tournament and he can go on and become this big star so I thought he's the guy to beat but how good are you I didn't see much of you so when I'm turning up to this I'm thinking Kessler tough fight, I'm not really too worried about was Alf Abraham in that first?

56:49He was straight away on it. Yeah, he was there. Because Alan Green came in when Darrell dropped out. I think he had just moved up from 60 to 68. But the main guy that was in my head thinking, the only guy I'm worried about here, because I think I can beat Kessler in my head, I can out-tough him, I can out-work him, and I can get to him. And he's lost to Joe Calzaghe, and I think he's still lost. So in his head he's been beat, where you're unbeaten, as Darrell was. But you was my number one, and that's probably why I had you as the number one in my head from the start, that when I actually finally came around to fight you, you were still the number one, and I was still unsure.

57:23I got into the ring fighting you. I wish you would have told me that before we fought him. I wish I would have knew that, man. We'll probably get into that a bit, but, yeah, it was like, you're on the pedestal, and I'm like, can I beat this guy? And the demons are insane. You can't beat this guy. I remember it was my brother's wedding in Cuba, and I was there, and you fought Kessler, so we got it on the big screen. So I'm watching you just take care of Kessler, and I'm thinking, this guy's awkward, man. he's dropping in the headbutt he's ducking low skirting around the rules hey man why y 'all in the UK man when y 'all see a physical tough fight why y 'all get nervous about that man y 'all want it clean listen bro it's whatever it takes Robert McCracken said to me when you turn professional it's no longer a sport it's not boxing it's not like it's point scoring like landing shots in the target area landing scoring point.

58:18He said it's a physical fight. It's a real fight. The elbow goes in, the headbutt goes in, the referee lets you get on with it. He says, get ready for war, get ready for a battle. I thought, this is going to suit me better than the amateurs. I lost in the World Championship semi-final to a Russian who was vertical forearms, one, one, two, left cross from the southpaw stance, and I was finding awkward to get near him. And then by around three or four, I was landing big uppercuts and catching him, and I had him wobbled, but the bell went. four two-minute rounds, man. You can't get anything done in four two-minute rounds.

58:50You've got to get to them. So when I turned pro, I was suited to the pros better than the amateurs. Yeah, you can see that a bunch of stuff. Yeah, I'm looking at you and got you as the chief guy there and the main guy to beat. And when I watched you beat Kessler in that fight that you had with Kessler, even though he did drop the knot in, he was out boxing him with fast hands. He was landing the jab. Do y 'all think that... And he was out working him. Do you think that, like, there could be a headbutt that's accidental? Listen, they didn't look intentional. I don't know. I've told you for years.

59:22The fact that they didn't look intentional, I thought, he knows what he's doing, he's very good at it. But I don't, though. Y 'all giving me too much credit. You'd throw a shot, and then you'd sort of follow him with that because it's safer to do that with your head and roll under and go forward with the head than it is to throw a shot and sort of pull back out and have a look and see what's coming back to counter it. But I'm an inside fighter, though. You'd throw the shot and get inside. but your stage from here to here, from there to there, the safest way is to lead with your head. But I did know.

59:49Evander Holyfield used to do it. He used to get in with your head. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. So I think Holy, like, I don't want to say it's intentional, but Holy, like, he had a lot of moments. And even B-Hop, like, B-Hop is a guy, Bernard Hopkins, he's a guy that's skillful enough to know how to do that and not cut himself. I don't know how to do that. Right? Like... Are you sure? Positive. Everybody I spoke to about you, from the UK anyway, because I don't speak to many Americans. That's the key right there. They all say he's a dirty fighter. He fights dirty, he skirts around the rules, and he gets away with it because he's a golden boy, he's America.

1:00:21That's what he says. That's what they say. They let him get away with it. And for me, when we fought... It's going to get dangerous this quarter, can't it? I'm just doing it, man. You're talking about it, come on. When we fought, Steve Smoja, the referee, was the worst possible referee I could have had. Like, if we get Joe Cortez... Hey, listen. I love Steve. Go ahead. He's on the payroll. But Steve Smoja versus Victor Ortiz. Is it Victor Ortiz? Somewhere Ortiz. What's his name? Another ref. There's another ref. Ortiz. I forgot his first name. Yeah, yeah. But that ref will make you break up. so when Ricky Hatton fought Floyd Mayweather a referee that will break the fight and say right break stop holding stop thinking that will change the fight like Ricky Hatton likes to get close get on your chest throw loads of body shots grab the back of your head rough you up and if you stop that if you negate that straight away from the off like he did against Ricky Hatton and Mayweather I don't think Ricky Hatton could have beat Mayweather and I don't want to talk ill of the late great Ricky Hatton but a referee changes the fight and the worst possible referee I could have had for you would have been Smoger.

1:01:29Because Smoger lets you fight. He lets you fight in clothes. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. Because you're a better inside fighter. Hold on. But you're the Cobra, though. Yeah, I'm the Cobra. And I do want to say, listen, I can take anyone on. I can outwaster and outstrengthen. Yeah, that's what I said. You're right. You said, hold on. You said you're the Cobra. I fight anybody. I don't, you said all the stuff. So on my mind, I'm like, oh, Steve Smoger, that's the ref that, he'll like Smoger. because Smoker's going to let you fight. Yeah, but I fight sort of at range. I like to be in the range where we can stand and have a fight.

1:02:02You've seen my fights. See, that's the thing, though, man. You close that gap, don't you? In the UK, man, y 'all want to be able to, like, have a silent negotiation on how to fight. Look, man, you come to America, you're going to get taken in the trenches. I didn't think too much about Smoker until after, and I thought, when I watched it back, I thought I could have done with some... You got to be able to do that trench fight, man. You have. You're right. I'm going to finesse you on the outside, long range, then I'm going to be mid-range, and then I'm going to be inside. What's up? And that's why, listen, I'm going to give you credit.

1:02:33You beat me fair and square, and I'm not making excuses at all. No, no, no, we got to talk about it, though. I'm going to talk about what you did, too, but go ahead. You can do all them things very well, and that's what made you a great fighter. You got to be able to stop it, though. I can't do all them things very well. Yeah. In close, I can get a bit rough, and I'm quite strong physically in close, but in terms of getting on the chest, getting a bit of distance, looking for the openings and landing the shots and not getting hit. That's a skill. That's an art. Floyd Melvin could do it all close, nice and relaxed.

1:03:02And that's the thing, too. Like, you said throughout the year, oh, he's a boring fighter, boring fighter. But, man, I was right there in your wheelhouse, though. We was toe-to-toe. Like, you had every opportunity to crank up the fight and make it as exciting as you want. I was right there, right there. The only thing I could have done differently if I'd have fought you again, when you was up close, on my chest, because you're saying that you was right there, that's an illusion that's bulls**t because you're not right there you're right on my chest but you can't hit that when your head's there I don't want to have an argument no I want to know what it feels like to fight me talk to me when your head's on my chest and somehow you're hitting me with shots I'm like has he got four arms?

1:03:44like what's hitting me here? like I can see his head here and then I'm getting hit with shots then I'm like right okay I've got a little bit of room now so I'll get back give myself some room and then I'm head on, I'm loading up. Miss, miss, or maybe I'm seeing the target and then the target moves because you do that. Can I get credit for taking a good shot, though? No, I don't think you were much to that. Come on, man. 20 rounds? I don't want to be known for this, but I never get credit for taking a good shot. You've only ever been dropped once. I've been down twice in my whole career. I've been down twice earlier.

1:04:17Farkovalev, 20 rounds, he had one moment. Yeah. See, if you want to talk about dirty fights, the Kovalev fight, was it the second one or the first one? You hit him with, like, two or three low blows. You think so? And the ref stopped the fight, and the guy was like... You think so? Well, he's holding his crotch. Of course he's holding it because he beat up. He beat up. He almost quit as well. But you hit him with some low blows. We're going to talk about that. We'll talk about that. But my fight, give you credit, you're on my chest. You're making it awkward. You're in a position where I think I can hit you, and then I can't hit you.

1:04:49because you're slipping and starting and rolling. We got to, we got, but look, but here go the thing though, bro. And that's a skill. If we, if we, if we, if we got to talk about the fight, we'll put our fight on hold for a second. Let's talk about Kovalev, right? Like Kovalev, you got to realize this is a dude, similar to what you're saying, right? He wants to fight a certain type of way. He likes to be at range. He wants to fight his type of way. It's not going to be like that tonight. Yeah. Right? Most guys, when you fight a Kovalev, they're scared so they stay away. So they let him rest when he wants to rest, and then he's catching guys on the end of the punches.

1:05:23I'm going to take you into the trenches, and you're going to have to really prove to me that you are who you say you are, period, right? So the first fight, I won the second fight with Kovalev in the first fight. Feeling him break down, just getting weak. I'm like, man, this dude, he never recovered, he never had a second win. So I never forgot that. Going to the second fight, watch the beginning of the fight, and Tony Weeks tells him. What he did was he came in and he put his cup way higher than he should have. Tony Weeks looks at the belt line. He says, this right here, go look at it. This right here is good, right?

1:05:58And he's touching the belt line. Yeah, because it's high. The body shots from the first fight. I'm not going to apologize for that. So we get through the whole fight. It's funny, people talk about the one moment at the end where maybe one straight, maybe one straight, maybe one straight. But they don't talk about him getting beat up the whole fight, the right hand that wobbled him, that had him going. Why don't they talk about that? Yeah, they see the finish, but they don't see what. Why don't they always forget about that, though? They, like, bury the hairline. Because they're looking for something to give you a stick.

1:06:25Is that what you're doing? No, not really, if I'm honest. Because I have acknowledged that you're a great fighter, and you do distance, up close, and the rest in the dirty stuff. So let's get... You can do it all. You can do it. There's nothing wrong with being dirty. No, no, no, just say, just say, I really don't know how to deal with that. That's probably a better way to say, man, like, that fit, am I physically strong? Yes. You are physically strong, yeah. And be honest with me, bro, did I hurt you? Did I ever hurt you in our fight? Come on. I can't think of a timeline. Come on, man, it's years later, give it to me, come on, bro.

1:06:59No, hang on, hang on. You never got buzzed one time? I don't think I did, no. Do you think you buzzed me? Am I forgetting? You got hit with some shots, bro. Yeah, hit me with some shots. but I can't remember getting buzzed. I can remember all the shots that hurt me in my career. Robin Reed, I'm with an overhand right. I thought he was outrange. I leaned back, he caught me in the chin. I was like, I don't even hurt him at all. Mikel Kesson with a right hand in round 11, and my legs dipped. I got dropped twice, got dropped by Groves. I got dropped by Jermaine Taylor. I got wobbled by a Russian geezer, who was about cruiserweight, when I was coming through, and I got hit with a stupid shot.

1:07:34But I can't honestly, hand on heart. You didn't get hurt with no body shots? No hand on heart. No, you sort of, you frustrated me, man. You frustrated me bad. I couldn't hit you with shots. When I got out of there, I feel like, I felt like I'm not really, my hands weren't hurting. I wasn't really in a place where I thought I'd been beat up. Like, when I fought Groves in that first fight, I was all over the place, wide, trying to chin him, loading up, giving him, like, I was so bad, I got beat up for six rounds. I beat you in a different way. Like, when I beat fighters, you get back on the plane and go home, and you're like, what just happened?

1:08:09You're hustling me, didn't you? You're like, what just happened? Man, I thought it was going to be easier than that. I didn't think it was going to be easier. You didn't think so? No. I knew I was in a tough fight. But I'm going to say it since we're talking about it, right? Steve Smogers being a ref worked for you, too. Potentially, but I think I would have preferred him to break us up more. I'm going to tell you. Because up close, you was better than me up close. You was close, landing shots. on my chest, tiring me out, wearing me out, leaning on me. I was dominating all I think ranges. You was leaning on me.

1:08:37No, you was. Out of range, you was too quick with a jab. When I explain how you beat me, I say, well, out of range, he's too quick with a jab. That's the Olympic gold medal. That's the boxing skill set. Quick jab, bang, bang, slip right hand. Quality stuff on the outside. Then when you feel like, I can't cope with this on the outside, so I'm going to get close, I'm going to get on his chest, and I'm going to rough him up. I did that to Andre Durell. I roughed him up. I got his arm, bent it back, throw him on the floor. Hold on, you being dirty now? Yeah, dirty as you like. Listen, there's nothing wrong with being dirty.

1:09:07You're just dirty. You being dirty? I'm dirty, yeah. Come on, man. I wish I was more dirty. Really? Yeah. That's crazy. Well, I'm pointing it out. It's not a criticism. It's an observation. No, I'm just asking. I'm just trying to get some clarity. Talk to me. Yeah, I'm not going to say that, listen, if I can't get away with being dirty, anything, win by any means necessary, you won fair and square. And you did, you did, you bit me in our fight. I did you bit my shoulder that was frustrating was it your shoulder or your ear you bit my left shoulder in a fight bro listen and Steve Smoger did not help me he was on the other side though he didn't see it he didn't see it but look you know what I've never bit anyone in my adult life I never would and I feel a little bit embarrassed that you've mentioned it because I mentioned it to you in the press conference yeah and I kept it and I went you know what you did no you did I kept it quiet until you started you started talking years later and I said that's it bro do you know how I last talked about that bite Yeah.

1:10:00Who? Do you know when I last talked about that bite? Yeah, yeah. I last talked about that bite this morning. Really? Yeah. On your show? No, to my producer, my manager. And I said, you know what? I bit him, you know? Yeah. And I said, I'm sort of... I'm glad you remember that, though. No, I can't. It's all good. But you know what? Your head was here. The ref was there. I'm like, this guy went let off. He's like on me. I felt like I was being suffocated, which is probably your game plan. I wonder somebody. Yeah, you're dangerous on the outside. So I just bit your shoulder, man. Yeah, you're dangerous on the outside.

1:10:32I was like, get off me. Yeah, yeah. You're like a child that's angry. You bit my left shoulder, and look, I look at Steve Smoger, and I'm like... First, I was shocked, right? I look at Steve, I'm like, he bit me. Steve's like, fight on. I'm like, what? He showed me... He didn't care. That's true, that's true. Steve didn't care. It wasn't a hard bite, though. It was like a medium. Man, bro, I had to go to the emergency room after. It didn't draw blood. It was a little nibble. He didn't draw blood, but I had to go to the emergency room after. Can I just clear up? It wasn't a bite. It was a nibble.

1:11:04It was a nibble. But no, you're right. I did. And listen, I've already apologized for it, but that just shows you how frustrated I was. Yeah, no, so look. I was frustrated. And I was thinking in my head, just sorry to stop you, but I was thinking if I bite you, maybe you'll say, ah, he just bit me, which you did. And then try to lose my cool ear. And then just judicious you. Like just hit you with a big finger, but. Too clever for that. I just, like, when that kind of stuff happens, though, like, I feel it. I feel the emotion, but I go internal. Like, I lock in even more, like, nah, I'm really about to do this now.

1:11:39So it doesn't get, like, it doesn't come outward where I start making mistakes. But so after, man, you know, like, we jumped all these fights to get to our fight. That's how you know the fire's still burning. But at the press conference after, you know, I understand. It's combat sports. I know stuff happens. I didn't want to say anything to the media. So me and you talked. We had a conversation on the podium. I was like, man, don't worry about it. And then something happened. He was talking. I'm amazing to you, isn't I? Before the press conference. I think you apologized. I'm sorry about that.

1:12:14I think you apologized. I was so winded. I was so stressed. I was trying to do a little move. When I mentioned Victor Ortiz earlier, was it him that fought Mayweather? Mayweather got head-botted. And he went to touch Globs. And then Mayweather went, Bing, bing. Got him. He hit him with two pieces. I was in my head thinking if I distract him, I might be able to hit him with a shot. He was trying to figure out anything you could. Anything. It wouldn't by any means necessary. And when you say I'm calling you dirty, you know how to fight dirty. Yeah. So that's not criticism. I just need to use a different word.

1:12:41That's a compliment. I think it's skillful. That's just me. That's just my word. It probably is. It's a skill set. Yeah, for sure. It's a skill set. And it can be taken wrong. But you got to have that, man, or you're going to get pushed around in a boxing ring. Well, it's a professional boxing fight. Like Rob said, listen, it's a fight. But I just want to say, man, so after you apologized, you came up like a man, shook my hand. We talked, we kind of whispered to each other. I said, man, don't... And then you never mentioned it. I never talked about it. You know, we're talking about it now. It's funny, man.

1:13:05You know, we have our... This is what getting this content and stuff is all about. But we started... Something happened and you started chirping. And I'm like, oh, he's talking again. So I'm like, man, forget it. I'm talking about it. And then I think I had mentioned it, but it comes with it, man. It comes with the territory. Did we ever get close to having a rematch? And Nottingham at the... Or was Eddie Hearn talking? So when you fought Kester the second time, I came out to the O2 arena. And I was there. And that's probably the closest it came. Did I see you that? No, we didn't see each other.

1:13:35No, because I can't remember you being there. So you was at a fight? I was at that fight. And I remember tweeting us. I think I tweeted it. I was like, Eddie, pick up the phone. Yeah. Yeah, I was trying to get it going because, man, the arena was rocking that night. Yeah, busy. 20 ,000. It was a good fight as well. It was rocking that night. But we skipped past a lot of fights, bro. I was going to get to, you know, the fight with Durrell in Nottingham. Just talk me through that real quick. That was your first fight. First fight in the Super 6. It was in my hometown. Andre Durrell was, where is he from?

1:14:09Is he from Flint, Michigan? Oh, right, okay, Michigan. He's quite a gobby. You said gobby? Yeah, he's got a lot of mouth on him. But when I speak to him and look in his eyes when he's talking, he's trash talk. He don't believe it. You don't think so? No. Really? Yeah, I think, no. He's talking, but he don't believe it. He quit against Abraham. You think so? Yeah. Were you there? No. I was there. Yeah, I think he quit. You think he quit? Yeah, I think that he took a shot and he's looking for a way out and he's getting hard for him. Really? That shot never hit him that much. Really? Yeah. He did get hit.

1:14:43You just don't know how hard it was. You just can't really tell because you're not... He was on his knees and Abraham was here and Abraham just threw a shot. You don't get any power doing that with your arm. You have to get power from your legs when you're still upright. You twist your body into it and you generate power from your legs. Abraham just went, have one of them while you're down there because I'm frustrated. And he hit him and he's like, oh, I'll make a big deal of this. I don't know if there's any genuine injury and if there was, then I'll stand corrected. But I don't think there's any real injury.

1:15:09But mentally he broke down after that fight. It was never the same. But when I fought him, I was able to get close to him. like I wanted to do with you if you was going to box a move and run but you didn't you'd come and sat on my chest from round one the art of war the art of ward but I get your smile on I said the other day I'd like to just strangle you just a little bit because I like you I've got so much respect for you and you're a cool guy and you're a top fighter you deserve all the props you get but Darrell when I got close to him I was able to grab hold of him I was able to say come on fight me and talk to him and threw him on the floor.

1:15:45Was he physically strong? No. No, he wasn't. Not at all? Not really, no. Really? No way as strong as me, no. What is it with Daryl? Because I feel like you've always kind of, like, disliked him, even in the build-up and even after. Well, on the build-up, he's just running his mouth, and I thought, what are you running your mouth for? Like, just be happy you're in a tournament. Come to Nottingham. Like, show some respect. I'm world champ. You've got an opportunity to become a world champion. I mean, that was a split decision, a close fight. Some people thought he won. Yeah, they did. Yeah. I mean, our fight was 115, 113.

1:16:14Some people thought I won. Yeah, yeah. It's true. Not really. No, no. No one thought I won. Go on, Ripley. You think so? No one thought I won. In the Durell fight? No, your fight with me. Oh, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying the Durell fight. I jumped around there. The Durell fight was something? The Durell fight was close. It was close. And my brother often winds me up when I beat him at pool or darts like I did the other day. He went, yeah, but Durell beat him and you got the decision. This is my brother. I'm like, no, he didn't win. If he'd have beat me, he'd have got his hand raised. It was a split decision, it was close, but you can't turn up to a boxing match and run and hold and try and survive and get on your back foot.

1:16:51He's got fast hands, he's skillful. If he'd have used his fast hands and skill and speed with confidence, he could have probably beat me. I'm man enough to admit. Of course I can be beat, you know what I mean? But you're going to have to beat me, you're going to have to hit me with shots and convince the judges that you've won the fight. And by running in the holding and turning your back and falling on the floor, you're not convincing the judges you want to win a world title. I'm WBC world champ. I'm in my hometown. All the crowds behind me on my... That was four in the morning that fight. It was ridiculous to accommodate...

1:17:19Nottingham Arena, right? ...from American TV. So I bullied him a little bit. I got on his chair. I bullied. I got close to him. I got inside of my glove, pushed it on his face. I tried to hit him with the elbow. I pushed him on the floor. I was saying, come and fight me. And he was running. And he didn't really do much. He didn't land much. So I won a close, messy, horrible fight. Yeah, yeah. But the right man won. I won the fight. So that happens. But Daryl, I don't know what I was saying about that anyway, but the Daryl fight, you asked about the Daryl fight. At the press conference on the way, and he was giving it a talk, and I was like...

1:17:51You didn't like that. It's not that I didn't like it. I knew what he was doing. So I thought, I'm just going to just give him some back. Yeah, yeah. Tell him, say, listen, stand in the middle of the ring and have a fight with me. I said, I know what you're going to do. I said, you're going to run like a little bitch. Yeah. You're going to just run round. to stand and fight I said run as much as you want because when I get on your face and get older I'm going to smash your face in I'm going to put this right down your back of your throat and he's looking at me and he's swallowed and he's listening to me but he's believing me like young and naive if I'd have said that to you you'd have just gone yeah right whatever like I tried to get you on the face off for showtime and I thought this ain't working man do you remember that?

1:18:29that was one of my favourite promos and I was chatting to you like thinking Jim Gray face off Yeah, I'm trying to get, I'm going to get in his idea a little bit. And I thought, no, that didn't work. It didn't work, that. He said, no, it didn't work. It didn't work, did it? No, those are the little battles before the war. Yeah, they are. And they don't mean everything. No, they don't mean everything. But they mean something. Yeah, they do, because they're good for your head. And I won all of them before the Daryl fight, and then I beat him in the ring. It was close, whatever. People say you could have won, could have lost.

1:19:01But I won, end of the day. Before we get to Kessler real quick, man, so what did you, when you were negotiating your deal with Showtime and getting Super 6, what were you told about the fighters having to travel at least one time? What were you told about that? Not much at all. I didn't really get represented, in my opinion, very well. As far as I was concerned, I didn't get represented well. Okay. I won the world title against Pascal. I defended against Jermaine Taylor in that amazing fight. I mean, that fight gets shown now on TikTok and Instagram and people put Rocky music over it. And that fight is still paying dividends and giving me an ego stroke, even all these years later.

1:19:45But that was never really part of the problem or part of the negotiation for me. It was all about what am I getting paid? How many fights? What TV networks it on and who's in the tournament. Wherever it is, it is. I'm not really arsed. I should have been bothered, but I was new to the game. I didn't want to turn pro. I turned pro, I won a world title. And then I'm being promoted by Hennessy and Rob McCracken's my coach. And we're just looking at what I'm getting paid here. Okay, is this right? Is this making... And when you look at what I got paid to with the fights I had, really, it wasn't very good.

1:20:22But it made me who I was. It's all part of the journey. And I never boxed for money. I never really got in the ring thinking, oh, how much money am I going to make? And this is the problem now with a lot of fighters, I think, with the inclusion of the Saudi Arabian, Turkey, L.A. Sheik. Some of them are getting overpaid, and then they'll earn all this money, and it's like, what am I fighting now? Like Marvin Haglis, the late, great Marvin Haglis. It's hard to get out of bed. Silk sheet. You're wearing silk pyjamas, and it's like, you understand that? When you're earning 50 million quid, site fee, and you're fighting, you lose or win, or even when you're in there, like, what's motivating you?

1:20:53I remember Floyd Mayweather being a big fan of Mayweather coming through, and when he broke free of his promoter, his first big fight in his crossover fight was against... Ricky? Was it Ricky? Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar, then Ricky. Oscar De La Hoya, because he was on his own then. He was doing for us with Al Heyman. He was like, I beat Oscar De La Hoya now. I'm in control. I'm the boss. And that's how good my wife was, business-wise. But in terms of the Super 6, no. Where's the fight? How did you feel when you found out that I wasn't traveling? I didn't really know about that till the end. When did you find that out?

1:21:22Oh, really? Yeah, just till the end. I was like, what's Andre Ward doing? because you fought Kessler. Where was that? Was that near your back garden, wasn't it? Yeah, so you fought Kessler. That was at home. But that's his fault, though. You know why? Kessler had a lot of... Kessler was the top dog. Yeah. He had a lot of leverage. I never told my team one time, I don't want to travel. It's quite easy going, Kessler. He was arrogant. I remember him in negotiations. He was like, I was a young pup. He was like, I'll fight him in Oakland. I'd say he's more ignorant than arrogant. That's possible. Because he's not really asked.

1:21:57Because he came to the O2 for the rematch with me. That's possible. That's possible. And in negotiations, like Eddie Hearn was like, listen, they haven't got big TV. We've got Sky Sports. He got more money to travel too. Yeah, he would have done, yeah. For me and I'm sure you. Not really, yeah. We've got Sky Sports pay-per-view. He's got RTL in Germany or Denmark. It's not going to bring big money. So all the money on the revenue is generated in England on Sky pay-per-view. So we're going to do a negotiation. We'll do 60-40. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. just no let's get the fight 50-50 just split the money with them like we'll go 50 stupid on my part from business I wouldn't say you're a good man but I'm just saying that's 60-40 on the table I'm taking it every day yeah well I was just like I said to Eddie I said we want to get this fight it's a pay-per-view we're getting back on Sky Sports it's a pay-per-view fight I didn't get paid good money for fighting Lucien Butte I could have gone to Canada and got paid quadruple like quadruple I got him to Nottingham speculate to accumulate I got the win and then I got my you know You know, you pull it out there in the universe, and you do things right, and it comes home to roost.

1:22:57And I got two fights with Groves on pay-per-view on Sky. We sold out 80 ,000 at Wembley Stadium. Did you hear about that one? I heard about that. And you never let us forget about it. So the Kessler fight was the first fight back on pay-per-view. We split that with him, and I thought, fair enough. He's a good guy. I like Kessler. I keep in touch with him. Yeah. He's got a family, man. Man, I'd like to talk to him, too, man. I don't think he wants to talk to you. Oh, okay. Dang Dang I tried I don't think he's interested In that conversation I tried man I tried Joe Cal Come on man He's all them stitches He had You know them stitches That you opened up He got more than stitches He got some body shots too Man so yeah So like I never I never I never I never You know Told my team Anything like that man Like you know Don't I don't want to travel It's just We just Man they negotiated hard And it's tough Because it's like It's not tough But like I'm never Going to apologize For negotiating a good deal Never Never.

1:23:51If my team negotiates a deal and they say, look, man, I don't even know how they pulled it off. Yeah. I can't tell you. But there was concerns, especially being young and going over there. You know, you possibly get robbed or something like that. But, man, shout out to my manager, James Prince, and Josh Dubin, man. They negotiated a good deal. The way I looked at it was it was an American tournament, American TV, and when I boxed in England at home in Nottingham against Darrell, it was at 3 in the morning, 3, 4 in the morning. And I thought, I don't want to fight at four in the morning. I'd rather go to America, stay over there for two, three weeks, whether it's East Coast or West Coast, get acclimatized, get away from home, get away from one of the distractions, train.

1:24:30I'll fight in America. I don't mind if I'm fighting in America. The only thing I was bothered about fighting you in Atlantic City was the fact that I'd already been there. I'd been here in Manhattan for four or five weeks against Glenn Johnson in the summer. I liked Atlantic City, but I think it could have been somewhere else. I was bored of flagging cabs down, going to Gleason's gym, going to Trinity gym got Peter Quillen trying to chin me every day in Spy but I had I had a Spy yeah I had spies in the camp man I knew about you I knew about you I knew you were training in New York I knew you Peter Quillen I knew everything you had going on man but when I did the when I did the fight with you it was the second it was like Groundhog Day back in New York December Christmas I wanted to get home with my wife and kids and on fight night when I was going to the ring I mean I got in there and I was fit and I was strong and I tried the best I could I think I could have done, there was a moment in the first round with you where we was having a look at each other.

1:25:22Because when that first bell goes and you come together in the centre of the ring, it's a bit like, it's almost like an out-of-body experience. And you come in and then you're back into your body and it's like, right, I'm here. And then bang, a jab will hit you or you'll throw a punch. Then you get this reality that you're actually in the ring in a fight. And there was a time where I backed you up, I backed you up. You was looking, you was probably thinking, what's he going to do? What's Frosch doing? How hard does he hit? because I'm thinking how quick are you and all this. And there was a point when you stopped in front of me and you was against the ropes or in the corner and it was like, all I had to do was let some shots go.

1:25:54It's just like throw a right hand and then throw the left or right hand and throw five or six shots. I did it to Jean Pascal when I fought him for my world title. But at that point when I stood in front of you in the very first part of the first round, I had an opportunity to let some shots go and I opted to just step back. I just stepped back because I was unsure and I was thinking what's coming back at me. I was overthinking stuff, because I didn't believe in myself. I didn't believe I could win the fight, probably. Part of me didn't think I could win the fight. So I didn't want to engage properly.

1:26:25And it soon got going, round two, three, four, and then you got on my chest and started doing your thing, what you do. Yeah, the bit where you skirt around the rules. So you was on there. And it's my own fault, because... And then as the fight got on, it got later on, I could see you looking up at the clock. I don't know if you was just bored or something, but you was looking up at the clock on the big screen. and I was getting to it because I always finish strong and I don't know if he was tiring or not probably not you had the last couple rounds I mean did you win the last two rounds? I won a couple of rounds towards the end yeah you definitely you definitely came on strong towards the end like I try to you know I try to pride myself on finishing strong too I had a hand injury man yeah you know about that I had like a fracture of hand so that was starting to like man you got a hard head bro like I started because what you do and I don't know if this is I don't know if this is a foul but you top of the head Yeah.

1:27:14It works on the street. Yeah. Fighting pubs. Is that legal? Well, street fighting, no. No, is it legal to put your head down? Yeah, because you just do that. You tell me. You're the best with a head. Man, I don't know. You tell me, man. But you re-injured my hand early. Oh, did I? See, if I'd have known that, if you'd have told me. I could have told you that. After it, as the fight went on, my hand was killing me. So I think it was part that it was also tough to make super middleweight. I didn't get big in between fights, but it was just getting hard. It was a combination of things. Plus, you were in great shape.

1:27:45Yeah. But you also, man, I got to give you credit for this, too. You know, I can tell you this now after all these years. And I mentioned this on your show, too. You kept hitting me. Like, I was blocking the right hand to the head pretty good. But you kept, you got long arms, man. Straight onto the body. You kept hitting me straight to the body. And I took it. But, you know, I'm full of adrenaline, all that. When the fight was over, I remember being on a plane with my family and just being like, like I could barely move. Probably for like a week, man. I probably had a bruised rib or something like that, so I'll give you credit for that, bro.

1:28:21I feel better now. I'll give you credit for that. Awesome. I'll give you credit for that. I thought I was going to take that to the grave. I can give you that. Them little gloves, though. You feel the knuckleheads. You keep pounding that rib there and you keep landing the shots. I mean, you can take a jab in the eye and your eyes cut. People don't realize. Body shots, bro. It's not amateur boxing. Pro boxing, them little gloves. And the painful, hard gloves. And you keep getting hit with that right hand to the body. It's probably the only shot I could eat you with. You've got good defense, good movement.

1:28:48And if I shoot it down there, but I'm looking in your eyes and I shoot it down there, I'll get away with landing a few of them. And then they slow you down later on. You landed it. You landed it. That's why you was gassing at the end, waiting for that bell. I don't think I ever gassed, man. Was you happy when that last bell went? Was you thinking, I've done it? Oh, yeah. I survived this, man. Survived? No. One yes. Feel me? Come on, man. I'm giving you the bruised wrist, man. Like, just taking a run with it. We're trying to take a bit more. All right. I got a couple more. I'm going to list you out of here, man.

1:29:15So we got through that, man. And then, you know, post-fight, I pretty much could fight who I wanted to fight at that time. Lucien Boutte, a Romanian fighter who resided in Quebec, Canada. He, uh, I didn't respect the fact that he wasn't in a tournament. And everybody was like, we, our fight was barely over an hour. And they were already trying to push me to fight Boutte. And I'm like, nah. I'm like, Frats can fight him, man. I think that'd be a great fight. You know, I got to think what I'm going to do next. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I ended up going Chad Dawson, you went Boutte, man.

1:29:48Because he had the IBF title. He had the IBF. But I didn't respect the fact that the best super middleweights are in this tournament and you're the only one that's not. I didn't respect that. So why should we do the heavy lifting over two years? And then you just come and get the winner? Yeah. I didn't respect that. But you came and did what you had to do, man. You stopped him, I think, in the fifth round and nodding him. Because he was RBF World Champ. And he's undefeated. Yeah, he's undefeated. Great performance. And I'm going to be real with you, too. Like, a lot of times when I fight guys that are undefeated or guys that are elite, they're not always the same after.

1:30:21And it's not just the physical punishment. Some of it is a physical punishment, but some of it is psychological. Yeah. You're one of the only guys that bounce back. Like, Chad Dawson wasn't really the same. Nah. Kovalev wasn't the same. 20 rounds, he never really returned to form like he was supposed to. I can go down the list of guys that never were quite the same, man. So I always watched that about you. I said, man, Frods bounce back. Yeah. It's a mindset though, isn't it? It's a mindset. And there's a verse in the Bible, Proverbs, iron sharpens iron. So it's a good 12 rounds with you. You made me a better fighter.

1:30:54And I like to think that you became a better fighter. Likewise, likewise. And you still got the desire. I still had the desire. And I had nowhere to go. You took the WBC. Was it WBC and IBC? And I was like, well I'm not champ anymore I'm back in Nottingham back in England and the tournament's finished now it's like a two year two and a half year long draining drawn out processed at Super 6 I'd had enough by the end it's a long long day there's two camps here in Manhattan and then the Glencoff Johnson fight then you I was like I'm done let's go man I'm finished not out of the sport I'm out for that I feel like I've had the reins let off now got this weight lift off my shoulders I'm not champ got no belts I'm good that I've lost the fight but let's go who's next and Lucien Butte RBF champ we got him to come to Nottingham and five rounds just put it on him I just got in there and just unleashed hell on him and he couldn't cope with it I didn't think he'd be able to cope with it either Me either I just thought if I put it on him and give him everything I've got I trained like a lunatic for that fight hit all my targets got my diaries out went through them like OCD going through everything and I'm like got him all I've got to do is jump on him I can't box and move a guy who's southpaw who's got skills and keeps out of the way and tries to outbox you.

1:32:04Just got to get in his face and hit him with hard shots. Pull it on him. He's in Nottingham. He's in my hometown. You got to do it. Run him out of town, man. Yeah. That's why I wanted to get you to the Nottingham Forest City ground. I wasn't coming to Nottingham. You didn't fancy it, did you? I come to O2. You don't leave Oakland, do you? I do. I do. For the right price. When? When do you last year? The right price. I told Eddie, man, pick it up. When I told you, when I went and saw what the O2 was about, I wanted to come. Yeah. Our fight could have been a stadium fight. Yeah, I think so. I don't think it would have done Wembley, though.

1:32:32I think so. Yeah, I disagree. I think so. I just think you've got to have a bit of a grudge match. I think the rematch, though. The British fans probably don't know who you are as much as they would. You know, like with Groves because it was the first fight. Man, that's actually not true, man. The UK fans, bro, my fan base is crazy in the UK. You've got fans in the UK, but in terms of capturing the non-boxing public's imagination, to fill a stadium, you have to not just have the box. There's not enough boxing fans. I got you. Do you know what I mean? But you need to cross over. Maybe with me beating Kessler and then the two Groves fights, then if you'd come out and said, but I was done, I was retired.

1:33:09But when I was looking at maybe fighting you again, I'll be honest, I didn't really want to fight you again. I know it. I didn't want to. No, I'll be honest, yeah. How do you know that? You don't know. How did you know? The phone never got picked up. Did we say to you about fighting in Nottingham? Nottingham Forest? I don't know about fighting in Nottingham. I know it was talk, though. You know I mean you would always say The right stuff Yeah But I Like you said about Darrell I didn't believe it I could see the odds Yeah I didn't try and push The fight over much really I know I didn't think it was a big fight I know And I thought Now Groves is here Piping up And got a bit of history From the amateurs and that But how did you How did you How did you even get to Groves though He's a young guy coming up He was 11 years younger than me And he was mandatory for the IBF So that's why you fought him Initially Yeah that was the first fight And I knew him from Training and sparring and that He used to train with David Hay David Hayes was a good friend of mine.

1:33:57So he, you know, that was a controversial fight, the first fight. And that's the storyline, like you said, that bumped you from an arena to a stadium. Yeah. Right. You know, he dropped you in the first fight? Yeah. He dropped you. Dropped you in the first round. First round. Then it was a controversial stoppage and just all this stuff. And then it shifted from an arena fight to a stadium fight. Yeah. How many? 80 ,000. 80 ,000. Biggest fight post-war. Yeah. At that time, that was the biggest UK gate. Attendance, yeah. Attendance, sorry. Yeah, yeah, it was. And did you know that was your last fight going into that fight?

1:34:33Did you feel it? I knew in the camp, everything. You knew it? Yeah. Did Coach Robert McCracken know? He didn't know, no, because I didn't want to tell him I'd had enough. I didn't want him thinking that my desire was going, I don't want to be here, because I did want to be there. I needed to get the fight. Because even though I won the first fight, it felt like a loss. It got received like a loss. Yep, yep. Because I got dropped in round one. I got beat up for six rounds and then I started to turn the fight around and started to get to him and when I was landing shots landing a couple of big shots the ref jumped in and stopped the fight and it was like crowd was booing everyone was annoyed Sky Sports were going mental and all the papers on the next day were like a disgrace and all this but it was good because it got you to the next level of course that created all the all the controversy for the rematch money went up that created Rambi Stadium and I thought, listen, I didn't want to fight Groves in the first fight anyway.

1:35:26I didn't think it was a big enough fight. I wanted to sort of do something in America, go over to Vegas, maybe fight Chavez Jr. or someone I thought would be a bit of a steady fight. But we got the Groves first fight, then we got the rematch, and I just thought, this rematch is so big. All them people at Wembley, all the gate, pay-per-view on Sky, did massive numbers, and I just thought, this is my testimonial fight. This is my swan song. I'm done. I don't want to be here anymore. I didn't want to be there in the first fight. After beating Kessler, because he beat me in the first fight, to get the rematch with Kessler and beat Kessler, it was like I've righted that wrong, I've corrected that loss.

1:36:03All them years, like two, three years earlier, I lost to Kessler. So to get him back in the rematch and get paid well because it was on Sky pay-per-view, I got selected to dance in a dance show with my wife, Rachel. So we did some dance on national television, ITV. It's called Stepping Out. Can you dance? No. You ain't got no rhythm? No, never remember. How far did you go in the tournament? Just to the point where I pulled out of a back injury. Wait, so dancing? One week, then I got through to next week. You pulled out of the injury on a dancing show? Yeah, I pulled out. Come on, man. Yeah, but I was training for the growth fight.

1:36:36And I have to be careful what I say because I got paid. So I got injured. Like, I got a real bad back injury. I got you, I got you. You know one of them where you can't walk? It happens. I got you. So my back was finished. Yep. And then somehow, like, after I pulled out the dance show, my back was better. Really? So I started trying in the camp, yeah. Really good physio. That's crazy. So I was doing this dance show, having Botox, having makeup and my hair done, and I'm on the TV. I'm like a celebrity. Are you serious? Yeah, I'm like, forget this boxing game. Just beat Kessler. I made a few million quid.

1:37:08I'm not really motivated by money. I've got my kids. I've got my health. I'm blessed. I'm done. Yeah. And then Groves comes out of the woodwork, and his first fight with Groves, I'm like... He was talking too. I'm not taking him serious, man. I'm thinking, I've only got hit him on the chin, and I win, I'll knock him out. Wait a second, did you check all your boxes? Yeah, nowhere near, man. Are you serious? No, nothing. Like, so unprofessional. And Rob knew as well. Like, the ring walk from the cold changing rooms, after being on the pads and being slow with a jab and the right hand, and I said to Rob, is it cold in here?

1:37:38I knew walking to the ring, this is bad. And I got dropped in round one. Ill-prepared, unprofessional, bad head, like, bad mindset. like a child really, like so unprofessional. I got dropped in round one and beat up like I'd never been beat up before in my life. But you righted the wrong in the rematch. No, I got the rematch and trained for 12 weeks in Sheffield. I was at home in Nightingham training. Yeah, that's crazy. In the first fight, I thought I've got my babies at home, I've got my kids, I'm enjoying life. I thought I could just do what I need to do and then get through the fight and I'll get through the training camp and I'll knock Groves out.

1:38:12And that's the reason why the fight was close and that's the reason I got dropped. And that's what I said to Groves in the rematch. I said I never trained properly. I was doing a dance show. You saw it. Saw me on there doing the banger and doing the cha-cha-cha and the rumba. You see my moves, man. And then you dropped me in round one. You dropped me in round one and you beat me up for six rounds. You couldn't miss me with a shot. But you couldn't put me away. You couldn't finish the job. But this time, guess what? I'm in the camp, man. I'm 12 weeks, Sheffield. I think he knew that deep down. Yeah.

1:38:42I think he knew that deep down. And when I told him when the gloves are off and we had a little handshake at the end and he tried to pull me and I pulled him over the table. I'd just done him at every angle. And on fight night, I just chinned him. The fight was a boring fight, wasn't it? Not much happened. Just me in the centre of the ring, not giving any ground. As he came, meet him as he comes, back him up, back him up. He's going round and round the ring, and we've got the smallest possible ring, because Rob McCracken picked the ring size, because we're the champ. And eventually, I got him in the corner, a little fake check-up, right-hand got him, fucking unconscious.

1:39:10L-Sparker in front of 80 ,000 fans. And that was the mic drop for me. That was like, I'm done now. Just got through a camp With duct tape Around my elbows And my hands all knackered My neck sore My back My Achilles tendon I had five operations Yeah it's time You know what I mean It's like I've had enough Got my kids Money in the bank Got my health Which is the most important thing I'm done If you'd have come to Nottingham I might have got out of bed For one more time We can still do it You don't leave Nottingham What was that? We can still do it Really? What time is it? It's a lot of money out there We'll get back to you Don't call me out there my boy Would you have an exhibition?

1:39:45with a Cobra? With you? I think that'd be good. What, with you? Huh? With you? No, I want to do it with you. Oh, really? See how my face has changed. I'm not laughing now. Would you do it? Well, an exhibition fight with you. You're thinking too long. You're not ready, bro. You're thinking too long. The old Cobra, you would have answered that right away. I've been retired 12 years in May. I've been retired eight years. Yeah, it's four years longer than eight, though, isn't it? It is. I wish you a way. It is, man. I wish you a way. I'm about 190. Yeah, I'm about 196. Oh, yeah, 196. So what would we do at the fight?

1:40:25What weight would you say? You pick the weight. I pick the weight? Yeah. What, you? I'm good at any type of weather, man. Yeah. Whatever you want to do, I'm not picky. Where's it happening? Huh? Where's it happening? I'm not picky. Come on. You said I don't travel, so I want to show you I can travel. You want to travel, yeah? So you're going to come to Nottingham? Why would you want to do it in Nottingham? No disrespect, but you don't want to do it. do it like in Saudi or somewhere, you know, like, if he said, man, I'm going to give you three times, four times the money, you got to come to Saudi, though.

1:40:52Yeah. You get on the plane to Saudi. Where else would you want to have it if it's not? We could do it in London. We could do it in O2. The O2. Yeah. What would it be? Six, three minute rounds? Six? Dang, that's all you want to do? Yeah, that's all I want. You can at least do eight, man. Do eight, yeah? We hall of famers, bro. Mind you, I need eight. I need eight. At least do eight. I need eight to get to you. Yeah, we got to at least do eight. So we've got an eight-rounder, 83-minute round. How big are the gloves? Got a straight nose now, though. I don't want to... You don't want to mess with that thing, huh?

1:41:20Can we have it in a contract? You can't hit me in the nose. Can we sign up there? Hey, man, that's how you know you retire. When you start making concessions like that, when you start thinking about concessions, that's how you know... 60 lads' gloves, no nose shots. Hey, we're civilians now, man. We're not going to fight. We're civilians. We're not going to fight. But you think about it. I would, though. You would, really. Yeah, because it makes sense. You know what? If you would fight, I would definitely look at it. Like, we had a little joke then. No, I'm serious. But I can see in your eyes you've been serious.

1:41:45I've thought about this. You didn't twitch, did you? At all. Because you were talking about fighting Anthony Joshua. I mentioned it. But how big would you get up for that? Could you put much weight on? So you're naturally quite... What are you, 6 '1", aren't you? 6 '1". But you're not even 200 pounds. About 2... About 2... About 2... 196, but I can get to... I can easily get to 210. Easy. But it's not a weight thing, man. It's a skill game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So we'll table this conversation for another day. We'll pick it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll talk about it. I've got to think about that one.

1:42:19Think about that one. Process it. Process it. Process it. We need turkey involved. Turkey yellow shake. If you want to see me get beat up, he could be the man to do it. I think that'll be dope. He tried to get me beat up by Calzaghe, didn't he? Who? The turkey. Yeah. Yeah. Calzaghi was like, ah. And he went to Joe Calzaghi and said, I paid some serious dough to shut Frosty up. And he agreed and then pulled out the next day. Really? I want to end with this, man. So you retired 37 or 38? 37. Like officially retired? I was 38. 38 years old. Was it 2015? Well, I boxed May 14. I don't think I'd have had it.

1:43:05It would have been probably late 2014. I don't know. Man, I remember when I saw, I was in Oakland, California. And I remember when I saw you retire. And I remember I was happy for you. But it was also a part of me that was like, dang. Like, I want that. I remember. I remember reading it on one of these websites. And I was like, I was happy. But I was like, dang, man. Because I was already, like, having thoughts of retirement and stuff like that. I knew it wasn't quite time, but I wanted to be done. And I remember just having that desire to want to do that one day and walk away on top and just be able to get my freedom back and just start a new life.

1:43:46And, you know, I remember that, man. But I wanted to ask you, you know, somebody that's like as competitive as you are, a fighter, always had a mission. You know, we always got a camp coming up. We got weight control. We got all this stuff. What is your new mission now? You got frat on fighting, you've done commentating, you have business, you have things going on, you have a beautiful family. What is your new mission? How do you feed that desire, that fire? How do you feed that today? I've invested a lot of my money into properties, but my brother manages my property portfolio. So that kind of takes care of itself.

1:44:23So I worked for Sky Sports after I retired, and that kept me out of the boxing ring because you sit ringside commentating, seeing people get punched in the head, you can hear the punches and hear the crunching. Can't believe you used to do it. Yeah, like I used to do it. Do you think the same? That's what I used to do. And I think, no, that's hard work. That looks like really hard work. And I've done it for most of my life. And that kind of makes you think, yeah, I don't fancy that anymore. Especially when you've had nose surgery and you're relaxed and you can eat what you want. Because I was watching my diet quite a bit, especially in my 30s.

1:44:52So you're comfortable, relaxed, family life. So I never really fancied getting back in the ring. But I think Sky, working as a broadcaster ringside, that helped me. And that was my mission, to become a broadcaster and join. You're doing it yourself now, working for, is it, what's TV network? Is it Showtime, was it? HBO? I work with all of them. Work with all of them. But being a broadcaster, it keeps you busy. I think it keeps you out there. You have the best seat in the house, but you're not taking any punches. No, exactly. Exactly. So that was what I did with my property. So that's to secure my money and making sure that the money I've earned is working for me.

1:45:22Like my first world title fight against Sean Pascal, I think I got paid 150 ,000 sterling, obviously English pounds. and people are like, wow, that's such bad money. It's not very good money for a world title fight. I'm like, yeah, but that£150 ,000 is still paying me a wage because that went down on a property that's rented and that property is now worth half a million quid and it's rented for X amount of thousands per month. So that's how you... If you go out and buy a Ferrari with£150 ,000 then your£150 ,000 is going to be done in about three or four years. So I've set myself up in that sense.

1:45:57I'm financially in a really good position. financially free and that was a mission for a while so I was doing my properties whilst I was boxing and then when I retired I then went next level and started leveraging and getting more properties so that's done boxed that off and it keeps my brother in work my older brother so he manages it all and he's got a nice life now managing that so I don't do much with that so I'm working for Sky then that finished got a bit political but I wanted to do my own thing anyway so didn't want to be told what to say or do or what to wear whether that's a rainbow badge or whether that's whatever agenda is being pushed to the public I don't want to be involved in it you know what I mean I've got three kids at home and I just want to concentrate on looking after my kids and letting them look up to me and my soul's not for sale so I'm like I'm doing my own thing now so now I'm doing my own thing I'm thrush on fighting so that's my mission to make sure my channel does well and I get good views I get big hits big numbers and I enjoy it other than that now because this is this is what brought me here I go to all the big fights I mean I've been to Miami Las Vegas Saudi Arabia twice Dubai a couple of times I'm always here there and everywhere for my channel it's great and there's just two of us we're a two man team you know just enjoying it but that eventually I mean for now I'm enjoying it I'm doing it but that eventually will run its course because I'll be like I've had enough now I want to stay at home a little bit more but all I'm doing now is trying to get out of the country trying to get out of the UK Really?

1:47:25Yeah. Where are you trying to go? I've got a place in Dubai. Okay. But it's not built for a couple of years. So I'm now just working out if I'm renting or buying something else. I don't like to waste money renting. So I might buy a plot to live in that needs doing up. And then when my plot's built, I'll move into that. Permanently? Pardon? Permanently? Permanently. Permanently. Oh, permanently. Yeah. Like leave officially? Yeah. I'm leaving the UK. Really? Yeah, I've got three kids. How's your mother feel about that? My mom, yeah, she'll miss me. She'll come out. I'll fly her out. She'll come and see me.

1:48:00Probably see more over there. You know what I mean? Dubai, huh? Yeah. Really? Just because of the safety of my kids. I'm worried about my kids going out on the street. Rocco's 15 now. Big lad, good looking, plays the guitar, plays golf. And the UK's dangerous. You see the knife crime. There's a lot of knife crime. Yeah, we've got a problem with immigration. We have. whether people want to talk about it or not, there's an issue. So I don't want to be there. I don't want to risk my kids getting... I think the paramount importance for society should be the safety of people. People should feel safe in their own country.

1:48:37And I don't feel safe in England. So my mission now, to answer your question, is to let my three children grow up in a safe environment. And I've got friends who live in Dubai. A friend of mine, Amaddon's out there with his four kids. That's cool. And I've got other people there and I've seen it, I've been there. It's too hot in the summer, can't stay there through the summer. So I've got a place in Marbella, I've got a villa, a nice villa in Marbella. No other Andalusia, which is a nice part of Marbella in Spain. So I'll go there in the summer, I'll go there every summer anyway. So I'll be Dubai when the kids are at school, so through the academic year we'll be in Dubai.

1:49:12And then I'll be in Spain and I'll go back to England here and there because I've got business to take care of. So I've got the property I live in now and I've got all my other properties. so there's a lot of stuff to do so that's my next mission to answer your question my thing and it's quite a big move taking three kids I've got a 15 year old boy and two girls 12 and 10 Natalia and Penelope moving out to the Emirates Arab Emirates total different culture change it's going to be hard climate's totally the climate's insane it's too hot in the summer but you've got air conditioning whatever so that's my mission now I'm only 48 you know what I mean life's short go out there for probably five, six years, let the kids finish school, do an international education curriculum, so they'll be very worldly.

1:49:58Rocco can play his golf. Rocco plays golf off single figures. So if he starts his A-levels in Dubai in September, September this year, we have two years of him doing his A-levels and playing golf every day. Hopefully he'll come over to the States, to Florida and get a golf scholarship. That'll be him sort of set up. So he can come over here to the States and do his scholarship, do three, four years, get a degree, meet a girl, do what young men do, enjoy himself, become a man and maybe come back to Dubai, maybe go back to Spain. It's just like, you can't plan too far ahead. Tomorrow's never promised, is it?

1:50:39What's happened in the back's history? It's lived for today, but in my head now, I want to get my kids safe and I want to set up somewhere away from the UK. So that's where I'm at at the minute. It's quite a big move, it's quite stressful. My wife wants to do it, which is good. She wants to move? She wants to move, yeah. Luckily my son, his girlfriend's German. She's in Germany. I was only 15. But if he had a girlfriend at 15 in the UK, and I'm saying we're going there, he's like, I'm not going. Luckily he met someone at skiing, like a couple of years ago. He just keeps in touch with her on his Snapchat.

1:51:10So it doesn't matter where we go. And my girls are young enough to say, you know what? So yeah, that's my little plan. Dubai looks good at the minute. I like the look of it. I've actually never been. Yeah. Do you know my favorite place in the world that I've ever been? No, not Dubai. No, no, no. The favorite place I've ever been in the world was Miami. Miami? I was there, man, when AJ fought. Yeah. Jake Paul. What a place Miami is. Just the sun, the beach, the bars, the restaurants. Just such a nice place. Do you like Miami? It's cool. I like other parts. I like to visit Miami. Miami Vice, man.

1:51:44What a place. There's other cities I probably like better, a little bit slower, you know what I'm saying? But it's cool to visit. Brother, I appreciate you, man. No, man. Always a pleasure. Thank you for the time, man. Good thoughts here, man. This conversation didn't disappoint. I hope it's everything that you guys thought it was going to be, man. That's another episode of The Art of War. Good, brother. Yeah, man. Nice one. Thank you, man. Appreciate it.

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