Chad Dawson: Andre Ward’s Apology, The Leaked Sparring Knockdown & Weigh-In Mind Games

23:32Yo, come check me out. What'd she think after that? What'd you think after that when you seen that? Oh, I had a baby. She was like, brother, this gonna have to work. Yeah. Yeah, man. But yeah, man, we've been together for a long time, man. Did your dad ever train you? Like I'm saying, he never trained you? He never wanted to? Nah, I don't know if he didn't want to. My father been working me in his whole life. So he getting up every day grinding? He getting up at 6 o 'clock in the morning to go to work. Really? I don't think he had the time. But when he was a fighter, I remember being like four or five and him bringing me to the gym with him.

24:07I remember that. But my father only had seven pro fights. He was a three and four guy. No amateur? I don't think we probably had no amateur first, no. He was from South Carolina. You know how those guys from South Carolina come out, you know what I'm saying? But he and my father, he put the bug in me. He put the bug in me. I got five brothers, four of them boxed. That's crazy. So when you stayed with it and they kind of fell off, they never was flirting with it. Like, man, I might get back in because I see Chad taking off. See what happened is, they didn't sacrifice. You know what I'm saying? You got to go through the sacrifice.

24:46I was sacrificing. But they was like, they wanted money. They wanted jobs. They wanted, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I sacrificed. I was like, nah. I'm going to finish this boxing journey. You know what I'm saying? I did that. And yeah. I mean, a couple, my older brother, my older brother, he tried to make a comeback. He tried to come back. But it was too late. It was too late. It was too late. That window was closed. Yeah. Would you say your first real guy that you fought was Carl Daniels or Eric Harding? Daniels was in 2004. Harding was in 2006. Harding. That was a real guy? Yeah. And that was for the NABF title that put you in position?

25:21For the world title, yeah. So, I mean, at this point, you got to be knowing, like, oh, this is a career now. This ain't just like no hobby that I'm good at. No, I know when I realized there was a career, I realized there was a career. I realized there was a career maybe about my 15th fight. Yeah. When I had my first main event fight, that's when I realized, oh, this is a career. That was in Connecticut? It was in Connecticut. Yeah, yeah. Talk me through the Harden fight, that first big moment. This dude a vet, hit hard. He was left-handed, too. But me and Harden, we got history together. Yeah, Harden, he from Hartford.

25:53I'm from New Haven, which is like 45 minutes drive away. Yeah. So I grew up watching him and wanting to be him. That's crazy. I didn't know that. And I remember on... That's crazy. I think I... I went to his training camp to be a sparring partner with his gear and fight Tarver. So I went to his training camp and I remember going to his training camp. At the time I'm like 20, 21 years old. He was beating the brakes off me every day, bro. And I'm like, yo, you ain't going to take it easy. I thought we was cool, bro. Yeah, I thought we was cool. But every day, we was cool before we sparring. As soon as we started sparring.

26:29It was always before. Until they say, fight. Whooping me. I'm like, yo, one day he had me crying. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. But then fast forward, you know what I'm saying, like five, six years, next thing you know, I'm mandatory for him, for the NBS title. That's crazy. Yeah. You think at that time he was still looking at you like, I was a little broke? Yeah. He still was? Yeah. He said it. We did an interview on the phone. He said it. He said, I'm going to do you like I did you back in the day. Oh, so he put it out there. He put it out there, yeah. And that made me mad right there. I was like, yeah, I got to get him out of here.

27:03You wasn't feeling that. Nah. Nah. But bro, that put you in position for the Tomaz-Adamac fight February 3rd, 2007 for that first world title. Yeah, it came fast. What you remember about that moment and that night? That night, I just remember I had a title shot and I wasn't letting it go. That's all I know. I didn't know nothing about Adamac. Really? No, I didn't know nothing. I seen him fight on TV one time. When he fought on Briggs, dude, Briggs, that's the only time I seen him fight. But when I seen him fight, I was like, oh, this dude tough, man. Because he had a war with Briggs. I was like, damn.

27:40So I went back to training camp. I got a call. Oh, you fighting for the World Tide? You're going to fight Tommage Adamant. I just saw him do a fight on TV. I'm like, oh, man. But I was ready. I said, yeah, I'll take the fight, whatever. I'll do it. I took the fight. Made history. What is that about you, man? that like, because I haven't seen you duck no smoke. No. Like we in the era now where you know fans, they don't know a left hook from a fish hook and they say, oh you ducked it, they don't really know what they talking about. But it is some ducking going on in the game. It is picking and choosing.

28:12And I think you should pick and choose sometimes. Can't fight tough fights every single time out. But I remember distinctly you, I'll fight him. I'll fight, like you fighting veterans and tough dudes and like legends and that's one thing I always remember about you, this dude willing to fight anybody. he'll go to their hometown or home country. What is that about you that lets you do that? Just being a fighter. I mean, like... Yeah, I fight... I fight anybody, anytime, anywhere. It don't matter. That's how I was brought up. You know what I mean? You guys be saying that, but they really don't mean that, though.

28:44But... The way I grew up, you know what I'm saying? I got five brothers. You know what I'm saying? I'm the middle boy. So, like, yo... I fight anybody, man. Me and my brother, we get into it. Whatever, like... It's just the mentality I have. I fight anybody. I always had that mentality. Rob Markman - Did that first world title, did that change things in your life or was life pretty much the same after that? Rob Markman - No, it changed. Yeah, it changed. Rob Markman - How did things change? Rob Markman - Okay, I'll put it like this. It's going to be funny. So, before I won my world title, we would fly to fights, we'd fly back, and it'd just be us at the airport.

29:17We'd go get in our car and drive home. But this time when I got back, it was like a parade outside. You know what I'm saying? So, I knew that was weird. I was like, oh man. Rob Markman - They watching? Rob Markman - Yeah, I'm like, oh man, that's weird. I mean, so, but, yes, I mean, I knew things were changing, like, when I won the title, I had two defenses before I fought Glenn Johnson. I think I had two defenses before I fought Glenn Johnson. I didn't know boxing had all this for me. I didn't know I was going, nah, I didn't know I was, I didn't think that, nah. Remember, I was 18 years old, my trainer said, oh, you want to turn pro?

29:47I was just like, okay, I'll make some money. I mean, that's how I looked at it. At first, I was just making some money. It was like a hobby. I was making money. I was still in my city, New Haven, still hanging out with my friends, still doing... Regular stuff. Regular stuff, just... The whole time I'm a personal fighter, but I'm still just... That's crazy. Doing whatever, doing whatever. Fight, go home, hang out with my boys, whatever. But as a while, I just locked in. Like I said, my wife got pregnant, I just locked in, man. I was like, chill about to have a baby. I can't be running around here broke like this.

30:17You know what you're saying? I got on my dean. Mm-hmm. Got going to training camp. then started going to Vegas. When I started going to Vegas, that's when everything really changed because my conditioning got better. I started training more. I started renting houses out there. So I'll be in Vegas for two months, be in Vegas for two months, train, go back home, month go by, go back to Vegas, train. I mean, that's how it was. That's when it became my job. That's interesting, man, because like my situation was a lot different because it was so structured. When I was a kid, we talking about Olympics and you're going to be a world champion.

30:55I understood it, but didn't fully understand it. So it's crazy hearing your story. You're like, man, I just kind of fell into it. That's crazy. I watched you when you was coming up. Yeah. Yeah, when you came out to the Olympics, I was watching you. I knew you was, but I never thought that we'd fight. Yeah. Because at the time, I think you was fighting 154. No. When you turned pro? No, so it's weird because I went up to 178 because I thought I was going to grow. I didn't grow. I was really like 178. I went to 178. And then when I turned pro, I started coming down. So like my first fight, I think it was like 165.

31:25Then I was trying to come down slowly to middleweight. And then that didn't last long. And then, you know, I went back up to 68. But yeah. I mean, I was watching you. I definitely was watching you. I was a fan. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I don't know what Gary Shore got in my ear. We're going to talk about that because I'm trying to figure out like, why me? Like. Oh, yeah. I don't even know why he said that. Bro, I remember. Bro, we're going to talk about it. We gonna talk about it. We gonna talk about it. But yeah, you answered my question, because I was gonna ask you, at this point, when that first real title, then you get into these defenses, I was gonna ask you, what was your training stuff like?

32:00Were you getting the nutrition part? Did you understand what it takes to hold this title, or were you still just going off - Yeah, I had it on my certificate of distance. So when I got to Vegas, that's when I first met my certificate of distance. The Alex dude? Axl, Axl. Axl, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I started training with him. When I got to Vegas, my first time I got to Vegas, I met him. And I saw him over in the corner working with other fighters. I'm like, yo, what they doing over there? That look fun. That look cool. What they doing over there? So I introduced myself to him. He let me work out with them.

32:29Like, every day I would go to the gym. After I finish my workout, I would go do strength and conditioning with them guys. So after a while, I was like, yo, man, I saw him working. Yeah, I'm like, yo. So I hired him full time. Like, yo, Axe, I need you to come with me. He was my cook. He was nutritionist. He was everything. I mean, coach, everything. He was like the best, the best guy to have around. I remember, man, when I was like, we was like dissecting your team and dissecting your stuff. I remember like, I was a little concerned about that dude. Yeah, yeah, he knows his stuff. I said, he knows his stuff.

32:57Like, he was always with you. Then I seen him in the kitchen, so I'm like, this dude cooking too? Yeah. He's a nutritionist too? Then I seen him in the gym. I'm like, and he on the runs with him too? So you be running? So I'm like, he's a vital part of his team. He probably was the main, I mean, besides my head coach, I mean, he probably was the He was the main, main, main guy. Because he was with me every day. Everything I did, he was there. When the coach, when the trainer wasn't around, he was there. I seen it, I seen it. So that's how we look at when we dissect the team, I'm looking at everybody.

33:27I'm trying to see who you got around you. All this dude got a lot of yes men around him. Didn't have a lot of people around you. So I'm like, okay, so he don't mind being alone. He don't mind isolating. And you had the dude Axl, then you know, there's times you'd have Mustafa with you, or you'd have, you know, Scully, and I'm like, man, he always got a good trainer. and he's well taught. You just knew how to fight. Yeah, but that's, shout out to my own, well, rest in peace, my own amateur trainer, Brian Clark. Mm-hmm. He got me right. Yeah. As an amateur, he taught me so much. I learned so much from him.

34:01I mean, and it's not even like the crazy parts of boxing. He taught me like, humility. First of all, like he taught me, he taught me little things that guys don't think about learning in the gym. I mean, like footwork, Little things like little moves, little head movements, stuff like that. Those are things that he taught me. Coming out of the amateurish, I knew I was ready for the pros. He knew I was ready for the pros. That's why he asked me that when I was 18. What you think about turning the pros? Because he believed in me. He could see it. Yeah, he saw it. He believed in me. Unfortunately, our career didn't last that long after that, but rest in peace to him.

34:33He passed away from about a year ago. Not even a year ago. Oh, Willie was recent. Man, I'm sorry to hear that, man. You don't hear a lot of guys coming out of Connecticut. Why? For boxing. I don't know Y 'all got talent out there? There's definitely talent out there I don't know The city I'm from I'm from New Haven So right I'm the first world champion To ever come out of that city So it's like Since I became a world champion Since I started boxing I remember It was one time At one point I was the only boxer That's crazy Around there In New Haven I was the only boxer Nobody boxing I was like the only one And then But now You go Now it's 20 gyms Really?

35:11Everybody boxing Really? Everybody's boxing. It's like - You had a part to play in that, man. I would think so. Bad Chad Dawson, yeah. I mean, it's cool too. I mean, it's cool to see young kids come up, do their thing, trying to emulate. So, I mean, it's cool. I like it. But remember, at one point, it was nobody boxing. Nobody. I was the only boxer in New Haven. That's dope to have something, for them kids to have something to anchor to. You know what I mean? Because I remember just coming up, I would hear stories about journeymen. like, Virg would be like, man, this dude, you know, he was a bad boy.

35:45I'm like, oh yeah, never a world championship status, but just, you know, just certain people I could like, but it wasn't a lot, you know? Then we had a dude named James Page. I don't know if you remember James Page. He was a welterweight man. He had a short run, cause he ended up getting in trouble with the law, but he had Don had him for a while and he like hit real hard. Like he was a guy that I could look at. And then like Joaquin Gallardo, we call him killer. He was, he tried out for the 96 team. So we had like, I had a couple of people that I could anchor to, but it wasn't a lot. So for them kids to have somebody like you in a space like that, that's dope.

36:18Because the resume speak for itself and the accolades speak for itself. And it's like, he came from where we came from. He walked these same streets. There's definitely some talent in Connecticut. It did a show at Mohegan Sun, last name. At a car at Mohegan Sun. It's fights all the time. We got Jimmy Burstall, the promoter from New England. He does shows at Mohegan Sun, Foxwoods, all over the place. So Boston's getting big. It's definitely getting big. You have the three title defenses after you win, and then one of them is against Glenn Johnson. And then the next fight, you know, you do something that a lot of guys are not doing even today.

36:54You vacated a belt to go face a champion with another belt. Didn't Tarver have a belt at that time? He had the own IBF, the IBL, yeah. So you vacated the belt to go make a bigger fight. A lot of times, guys, even today— I just wanted to name. I know. That's what I'm saying, but that's rare though. Guys do it, but a lot of times they get brainwashed. I need this belt for my status. And you was like, nah, I'm going to put this to the side. I'll go get another belt. Tell me about why you did that and then walk me through that first Tarver fight. I really wanted to fight with Tarver. Why? Because he beat my boy, Roy.

37:27That's right. Ever since he beat Roy, I always say, yo, I'm going to get this dude. I got to get that. I'm going to get this dude. I mean, mind you, when I first came pro, I was a middleweight. I fought at 160. Before I left the 160 pound weight class, I was in the top 10. But then right after that, I moved. I think I had two fights at home. 68. Two fights at 68 went right through heavyweight. So when I got there, I was like, oh yeah, I got to get Tarver. So I mean, nothing against him. Tarver's a good dude, cool dude. But I had to get that. I did that for Roy. I don't know if you noticed, but I had the first Tarver fight.

38:01the trunk that Tarver wore when he beat Roy when he knocked Roy out oh that's the colors you had oh yeah the blue and the silver yeah was that the first one the blue silver black that effect the first one dang I never knew that yeah as you said it I got you I got you so we did that just the best way I got you yeah cause I knew I knew I was gonna come out on top anyway but well there you go Tarver cause I just interviewed Tarver he started getting at me talking about why I didn't want no smoke we wasn't even the same stratosphere at that time but your man my man came and got that for Roy But I never knew that was the reason you fought him.

38:33Or I might have forgot. But I didn't remember that that was the reason you wanted Tarver. I never said it. Oh, you never said this the first time you seen it? I never said it. I never said it. Really? But that was the reason. Yeah. When he knocked on Roy, man, I was hurt. I was hurt. I was like, oh, man. I thought nobody could be Roy. Nah, I thought nobody could be Roy. When he knocked him out, I was like, nah. Bro, I think about today, I'll start swinging at the air. I'm hot. I can't even explain it, bro. A lot of people cry, man. A lot of people cry. But you got that give back though. Tell me about Tarver though, because Tarver got an interesting style, man.

39:09He's like, if you look at him, you're like, oh, it ain't really nothing there. I don't want to say nothing. That's the wrong way to say it. Nothing jumps out at you like one attribute where it's like, you know, he's got a good left hand, dangerous, sneaky, but when you really watch him, if you know what you're looking at, he's doing a lot of crafty stuff. He's a dangerous dude to fight. What was your experience fighting him the first time? The first time? The first time was easy. Really? It was easier than the second time he fought. The second time he put up a better fight. Really? The second time was a better fight, but the first fight, I couldn't believe it was going that way.

39:39Yeah. I'm telling you, I couldn't believe it. I was getting combinations off. I couldn't believe it, but he definitely did better in the second fight. The second fight was better. What made him crafty, tough at certain points, what was it about his game? Can he crack? You didn't feel it? Even the left hand? He's strong. He's strong. Physically, he was strong. Yeah, yeah. Like, when we clenched up, I could feel he was strong. That old head strength. Yeah. Same thing with Glenn Johnson. But I can't really point out nothing that he... Because everything... There was nothing he could do that. He couldn't do that.

40:15And I saw that right after the first round. He said that in the interview, too. He said he was just too young. He said he was 15 years young. Yeah, I'm like, man, you knew that when you signed a fight. Yeah. I mean, would you? But I was hassling him. I was bothering him for, I think, maybe a year. Before the fight. I was showing up at his fights. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to get the fight. Yeah. I was shocked he took it, though. You know you did that to Roy, too. Yeah. He did that to Roy. Mm-hmm. Showing up at the press conference. Yeah. He kept showing up, bro. Mm-hmm. He'd be at the press conference.

40:47I was a kid. This dude would be in there with a speakerphone like this so his manager could hear what Roy was saying. And I didn't understand what was happening at that point, but when he showed up to the Ruiz, the John Ruiz post fight press conference, I was like, oh, I see what he doing. And the rest is history, but he chased that fight down, so you was doing the same thing to him. Because I wanted the fight. I wanted the status, too. I wanted to be like, yo, I beat Tariff. I noticed that, too. You was real big on the name game, too. I went to Hopkins, Glenn Johnson. There was a big name. Big name came across.

41:23I was like, yeah, I take it. At that time, you know, you beat Tarver the second time. Were you aware and conscious of, like, the perception that you had from fighters and maybe from Meteor, or were you not tripping on that? No, I wasn't tripping on it. Were you aware, like... Because I felt like your perception from the fighters was like, we all was like, bro, check. Oh, boy. Did you feel that? Or did you know you had that status? Really? Nah. I said, I mean, nah. Nah. I didn't really like, yo, don't get me wrong, it was cool, I was wearing belts, making money and all that, but everything to me was just like, icing on the cake, you know what I'm saying?

42:07Like, it was like, I didn't live like, the way I was really supposed to live, like, don't get me wrong, I trained my ass off for every fight, I always did what I had to do, but at the same time, it was like, my wife would always tell me, Chad, you two available to people. I mean, And when she's always telling me, I'll be like, she keep saying it. I just heard her. She said, you know what I'm saying? You two available to people. And I was. Know what I'm saying? Give me an example. What you mean? Like, I would fight, right? Come, go home. And I'd just be out in the club. After. After the club, all in, just around doing, just partying.

42:46For two months, I'd probably like a rock star. After the fight. After the fight. After you win, yeah. But when I get a fight, when I get a call, oh, you got this schedule, I lock in. But I didn't really think I was as big as I was. I mean, I didn't look at myself like that. Yeah, nah, I know how I perceived you and how we perceived you. I heard the media chatting and stuff about, oh, he's not doing this, he's not doing it. But they said that about every great fighter. So I know for me, like, your peers, we was like, Chad, that dude, bro. Like, can't nobody deal with him. Like, you gotta deal with tall, rangy, southpaw, but then you had a flair to it though, you know what I'm saying?

43:27Like, you had a swag to it, you always dressed nice, your outfits was always dope, so from a cultural standpoint, I felt like you was always, like, you was always up there, that's how we seen you. I appreciate that. You know what I'm saying? But, I mean, I could've, I feel like I could've did a lot more in my career, you know what I mean? A lot more had I kept my head on the right foot the whole time, I mean, but, But you live and you learn. I mean, you live and you learn. Happens and I'm happy I went through it. I'm happy. I mean, don't get me wrong. I appreciate the fact now that I'm a three-time world champion.

44:01People know who I am. Like, on the way here, we're on the train. People recognize me, you know what I'm saying? That's cool. I love it. But at that time, during my career, I didn't look at things like that. I mean, I didn't look at it like that. What was your business game like at this point? Like, when you negotiated with fights? Like, were you just taking what they gave you? Were you pushing back? No, I was taking what they gave me. Really? You never was like, nah, man, I ain't doing it. This is my number. Nah, because I, nah. Really? That's one big mistake I made. I told you, I said, make sure the people are really with you for the right reason.

44:35Because they didn't tell me. They didn't tell me nothing. Who didn't? Like a promoter, manager? Gary Shore, managers. Yeah. So they'd just be like, this is what you fighting for? Yeah. You ain't never not like the number?

44:52Nah. Chad, this is all they got for you, Chad. But looking from where I came from, bro, like, bro, I came from dirt. So you're like, I'm playing with house money. I came from dirt. I literally came from poverty, bro. So whenever I got something, it was always big to me. I mean, I remember before I signed with Gary Shore, my biggest paycheck, I was 17 and my biggest purse was like$8 ,000. You know what I mean? then I got with Gary Shaw. Right after I signed with Gary Shaw, my next check was$50 ,000. After that,$75 ,000. After that,$300 ,000. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, the money was just, I was good with it.

45:29I can hear him now. Chad, this is all they got for you, Chad, but the next one, you win this one, we're gonna, that's the line. They got me with it. They tried to get all of us with it. They got me, yeah. I don't need to know the number, but do you remember that first fight when you became a millionaire? Like, this is my first million dollar person. You. Really? Yeah. That's my biggest person. Yeah. Man, bro, this game a cold game, bro. That's why I try to tell dudes, like, dude, think they want this? Like, they got to understand that the boxing is totally different from the business side. The business and the boxing is two different things.

46:04Two different worlds. Two different things, yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I left that late, but it's two different worlds. So it's like you got the boxing, I mean, you got the business side, but then you got the money management side, right? And it's like people, they look at athletes, boxers, like, oh, these boxers, this and that, but they don't realize that. It's hard, bro. Like, if you didn't formally learn, like, you gotta, they just say, save your money. It's deeper than that. Bro, I ain't, nobody teach me nothing, bro. No, neither did I. I didn't learn either. I can learn on a job. Like, every year they say, oh, you wanna turn pro?

46:36I say, yeah. Sign the contract. My first professional contract, I signed it in the gym. Yeah. Nobody looked it over? Nah. Yeah. Nah. Nobody looked at it. Sign here. You just sign this, sent it out, I was signed. And it's hard too because you getting chunks of money, right? Mm-hmm. So it's like, oh yeah, I just got a fight, I'll get another one. Yeah. I'll get another one. That's how I looked at it. I was always like, I'll get it back next fight. I'll get it back next fight. I'll get it back next fight. You know what I'm saying? But then comes a time when it's not going to be a next fight. You know what I'm saying?

47:10Yeah. It's not going to be a next person. You know what I'm saying? But like I said, things that you learn, like one of my kids wanted to be a boxer, they want to do, want to go that route. I'm like, I can tell them, like, look, you're going to have to do it this way, do it this way, this way, leave that alone. You know what I'm saying? But I definitely learned my lesson. You see fighters now, like, you think they're moving different or you think it's a lot of the same mentality with fighters? They're moving different now. You think so? A lot more business savvy. A lot smarter than the generation.

47:39A lot more savvy. They want their money, man. They want to get paid for their services. You know what I mean? And I think it's good. I think it's good that the promoters are dying out. I mean, the networks are picking up the fights now. I think that's good for boxing. They getting that guap, man. They getting that cheese. Yeah. I love it for them. I love it for them, man. It's a, I don't know. You know, they try to say certain guys, you know, they overpaid. I don't know if that's a thing. I don't know if that's a thing. No, it shouldn't be done in boxing, no. I mean, given the risks you take, Like some dudes, you can't look at the resume and be like, you ain't really did nothing.

48:15Like, how you command this? But I would rather you get that than not get that. I would rather you get that payment that maybe your resume doesn't speak to that you deserve it. But like, I'd rather that than getting underpaid. Because historically, we fighters underpaid. It's like the thing with Keyshawn Davis and Devin Haney. Right? Haney getting 75, he getting 25. But like, for Davis, if you believe in yourself, you're going to take that fight. If you think he can win that fight, you're going to take that fight. I mean, you're going to take the 25, you know what I mean? So, I mean, in that sense, boxing's a lot more business savvy.

48:50Hopefully he'll take the 25 because I think he can beat Devin Aimee. You think he can take it? I'm lying, I'm lying. Talk to me. I'm lying. Talk to me. Keyshawn, I think he'd be the best possible fight. I think he'd be a better matchup than... Shakur? Shakur. Really? You think he got a better shot to beat Devin and Shakur? because styles just styles with Devin Haney and Shakur I love Shakur you rock with him? yeah brilliant brilliant boxer you ever met him? nah I never met him brilliant fighter right brilliant but at the same time I think I just think Devin Haney got more in this more versatility can do more I mean I think he can do more in the ring than than Shakur?

49:37yeah What you think that Keyshawn does that's the difference maker in the Devin Haney fight? Aggressive. More aggressive. He coming to get it. More aggressive. And he's aggressive with the IQ. He's coming straight forward and he got the IQ to back it up. So that's why I look at that like, well with Shakur, he's going to sit in the pocket and just pick you apart. That's it. I've never seen Shakur put his foot down and go forward and like, I'm going to get this dude out of here. I'm saying that's not his style And I understand that I appreciate that I appreciate his style I love his style But I think Devin Haney got the style To Throw the end Of Smarts What about People say Lack of experience For Keyshawn At the highest level You think that'll Come into play Cause they've been there For a minute I know I know You've been there For a minute Still I think Davis got a better chance to beat him.

50:38Like I said, just because of the styles, stylistically. Stylistically, you got to... One guy's aggressive. One guy, a boxer, is going to sit in the pocket and just pick you apart. But you're not going to be able to do that with Hayden. Sometimes with a boxer, sometimes a boxer... But Hayden's a boxer, too. Keyshawn is a boxer. Hayden's a boxer. But sometimes for a boxer, another elite boxer is more of a threat than a guy that's coming forward. Because a great boxer, they always see guys coming forward. You know what I'm saying? But like another boxer, like I got to come get you. Like I'm used to people coming to get me and counter punching.

51:17I got to come get you. I got to reach for you now. I got to commit first. So I'm going to leave my opinion out of it. This is your interview. But that's it. I want to hear your opinion. I ain't got it right now. I ain't got it right now. I'm chilling. I'm going to let you get this on. I'm gonna talk about it man once these fights get made you know it's a lot I like to wait man because it's a lot of chatter a lot of dudes be talking but I don't like talking about the stuff until like stuff is official yeah it's like me yeah yeah because sometimes I wait till the week of the fight yeah I'm not trying to waste all that man let's get back to your career man so you you running back with Glenn Johnson God bless you for that God bless you for that man you yeah you ran that back twice with with the road warrior that ain't no easy thing to do but then August 14th, 2010, man, you traveled to Quebec, Canada, and you faced Jean Pascal for the IBO WBC.

52:07Obviously you knew him, but how long was you eyeing him? Or how long did you know like, hey man, this could be a fight that could be had? Before it actually happened? Before it actually happened, I think, I think it was right before the first Glenn Johnson fight. So you knew like, hey man, this guy could be next, or maybe. I knew because he was already rated high. And they were pushing him. I mean, they were pushing him to fight for a world title. So, I mean, I knew he was on my radar. I knew it. But the outcome wasn't the outcome I wanted. I mean, because I was definitely about to get him out of there before the ref stopped the fight.

52:50I was definitely about to get him out of there. So, I mean, his style is awkward, though. Oh, man. Strong, hit hard. That's what messed me up. Yeah. It's in and out. The irky jerky stuff, in and out, boom, boom, boom, gone. Yeah, that messed me up. I think it took me like eight rounds to finally start getting into the fight. Because I don't know what it was, but I just wasn't, the first few rounds, I didn't feel good. I mean, but when I finally, I think I went back to the corner and Eddie told me, yo, you got to knock him out. So I went out there, I think it was like the 10th round. I went out the 10th round, and I was literally just about to knock him out and had what happened.

53:26You think it should have been stopped? Nah. Come on, you seen that cut? You seen that cut? Come on, man. That wasn't even deep enough. It was just a little nick right here. So when the doc was looking at you, what was he saying? Did you think he was going to stop it? He didn't stop it. The ref stopped it. The ref stopped it. It wasn't the doctor. So the ref just looked and was like, that's it? Yeah. The same ref from the Stevenson fight. The one who didn't give me... You know what I mean? The same guy. The same guy. He's still reffing today. and I can't stand it when I see him on TV. Damn, bro.

53:57See, that's the thing you got to factor in. People like, you know, they'll say stuff about guys not traveling. Like, they had that narrative about me. Like, oh, he don't travel. It's like, when you travel, you got to deal with stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Like, we work too hard, bro. Like, sometimes you got to travel. But... I mean, one, the night when I fought, the night before I fought Stevenson, we was in a hotel room. Literally the night, that night, This never happened to me before. Somebody was banging on my wall all night. I'm like, yo, this is my... I knew where you were staying, bro. I'm like, yo, what's going on?

54:32I'm like, yo, this never happened to me. All night, somebody banging on the wall. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, yo, these dudes really messing with me right now, yo. Yeah, it get ugly. Yeah. That was my first time really realizing that. Yo, these dudes really going to do anything to win. Yeah. Yeah, they get ugly because they'll find out where you stand and all that kind of stuff. That's the tough part about traveling. It's like sometimes it ain't about I'm scared of travel. It's like I don't want to deal with that. I got to make sure my food right, my water right. I need security everywhere so y 'all don't try.

55:03It's like, and I got to focus on the fight, cutting weight, all the stuff. I like traveling though. Traveling is cool. How did you deal with that, man? Your first professional loss? Because that was the first time you took a loss as a pro. Yo. I knew I was going to get it back. I wasn't even, I mean, I lost the fight. Yeah, I was upset about the loss, but I know I was going to get another title shot. So, I mean, I wanted a rematch with him. Yeah, why didn't that happen? B-Hop got it. I don't know. So B-Hop intercepted it. He went and did what he did. They fought twice, right? Yeah. So you had to sit that out.

55:39Two fights. Yeah. The people in the undercard, the second fight with him and B-Hop. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I was mad about that. Dang. Then Bernard got the titles. Dang. Then I had to go get it from him. You did. You did. How long after that second fight with B-Hop and Pascal did you get the call about fighting B-Hop the first time? Was it a given? Oh, no. It was a given. I knew when he beat on Pascal a second time, I knew I was fighting him next. The only fight that made sense for y 'all at that point. I knew I was fighting him next. I knew that. What did you think about him? You seen him do what he did to Pascal.

56:15What are you thinking about B-Hop at that time? Thank you. I just wanted to fight. I wanted to be hot fight but at the same time, I knew it was a dangerous fight even though he was 40-something years old. He's crafty in the ring. He know what he doing. He know where he be at. He know all the slick. He know everything. I was nervous about it. The first fight, when they said I threw him out the ring, that first fight, he had me frustrated too. But when I get frustrated, I just do like, I just be out of my mind. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't really throw him down like that. Kind of just get him a shoulder.

56:53I gave him a little nudge. You know what I'm saying? But it was something that we trained for, for the fight. Because we know that B-Hop likes to jump on guys' backs. You know what I'm saying? So we trained for that. Wear you down. Yeah, so we trained for that. And just so happened he did it. He jumped on my back. And all I did was shove him off, man. You know, he faked the injury. Yeah. All right. Yo, that was crazy. What was crazy was when you threw him off you, like as soon as you, like he hadn't hit the ground yet, but as soon as you threw him off you, you was like, ah, you just like - Yeah, because I knew, I knew.

57:28He was heading to the ground and he was disgusted. Because I knew. So I was like, you knew like this dude finna trying to - Yeah, I knew he was gonna try to get up. I'm like, how did he know what was gonna happen? He's smart, he got paid twice. He got two for one. Got paid twice. He got two for one. You got two for one too. Yeah. But in the buildup for the first fight, it was different than the build up for the second fight. So the build up for the first fight, you were more respectful. You was like, hey, you know, B-Hop a legend, you know, but it's my time. And that's pretty much as far as you took it.

57:56But B-Hop, he start, he starts doing the Jedi mind tricks and all the stuff. So he start, he starts it. You know what it was? So we had the face off, right? No, it was after the weigh in, after the weigh in, right? Like this dude's like 50 something years old. And he had a face off. He was a whisperer to me like, there ain't no gangster. Ain't no gangster from Hartford, Connecticut. I'm like, what? I'm like, what this dude talking about? I'm like, I don't know what this dude talking about, but I'm going to kill him. But yeah, he was just weird stuff. Then his training on Nassim. Nassim. Yeah, during the fight, he was screaming out all types of crazy stuff.

58:31He a basketball player. He ain't no boxer. He a basketball player. I'm like, yo, this dude is crazy, man. Whatever. But I got the win. That's psychological warfare, man. I respect Bernard, though. I respect him. I got the utmost respect for B-Hop. He did so much for boxing, like, crazy. You know what I'm saying? So I got to respect him. But that night, I didn't respect him. Well, the buildup for the first fight, his main thing was like, your mentality. He kept attacking your mentality. Like, you ain't, I'm exposing mentally. He thought I was gonna fall. He said, I'm exposing mentally. He ain't, he ain't, he said, he wouldn't give you the respect of being a skillful fighter.

59:05He kept taking a skillful out and saying you was athletic. So he minimizing you, like, you just a big athletic dude, but you ain't really, you don't know what you're doing in there. Yeah, well, I did that my whole career though. People said that my whole career, he's just athletic. You just, I'm just athletic. So, he hits the ground, he say his shoulder hurt. Again, you was irritated and agitated from the time you threw him off, post fight, interview, press conference, all that stuff. Like, that stopped you from becoming light heavyweight champ again. That kind of kept everything, because it was a TKO, then it got changed to a no contest.

59:38Like, how you dealing with all of that? Like, you had a whole camp, you barely fought two rounds, Like, how you dealing with that post-fight? I mean, it is what it is, right? I mean, that happened. I pushed him off. He faked the injury. You for sure 100 % feel like he faked? No questions? 100%. 110 % sure he faked it. Yeah. Bro, when you dislocate your shoulder, you get like a knot or something sticking out, right? He never had a knot. Like, we never seen a doctor's note, anything. We wanted to see a doctor's note saying that he was on— I heard you say that, too. Yeah, we never seen—we never seen a doctor's note.

1:00:14Nothing. Nothing. But I respect him for it because he's smart. I didn't want that fight to go down like that though. I didn't expect that to happen like that though. Yeah, what was the first fight at? LA. Staples Center. Staples Center. Okay. So the rematch takes place six months later and this time the lead up is different. Bhop is taking a different approach. He's quiet. I ain't gonna say nothing. He's letting you talk. Now you are a lot more animated, probably more animated than I've ever seen you. Like, you did not, I mean, I know you respected him, but you didn't like B-Hop at that time. You just made it clear, like, man, he faked the injury and I'm finna walk through him.

1:00:48It's my time now. And you took care of business in that second fight. But the second fight, don't get me wrong, yo, that's a tricky dude, man. Yo, I'm talking about this dude, like, I couldn't hit him. I couldn't catch him with a flush shot. Because he got the thing where you think you gonna hit him with a flush shot, then he'll pull away. So the shot don't land, like, perfectly as you want it to. It's like, bro, I get more respect in the world, man. That dude, he's a crafty dude. Very crafty dude. Yeah. So let's get to it, man. Post-fight interview, man. I'm sitting on the couch with my wife.

1:01:20I don't know if I saw Gary Shaw whisper, but I knew Gary was behind it. Because I know Gary. Well, let me back up a little bit. Was I on your radar before that? No. I wasn't thinking about you, no. Really? So he planted the seed in that moment? Not that moment. leading up to the fight. You led Cole, called Ward out. Yeah. Like, that was leading up, like, the week of, maybe the week of the fight, the week before the fight, he started, like, putting a little bug in my head, called up, we're gonna try to get Ward, we're gonna Ward. So, after I beat Bernard, he asked me who I wanted next. I said, I'll fight Ward.

1:01:54I'll go down to 168. Yeah, you said, you said. But, I didn't expect you to jump on that, mother. You've gotten rid of all the old fighters in the division, but there's some new, interesting young fighters here. Any interest to you in particular? I mean, I would love a fight with Andre Ward. I mean, I think that makes for a great fight. Super middleweight champion. Super middleweight champion. I mean, I can make 168. We can do that 175, catch, but it doesn't matter to me. You know, I want to make my statement known. I want everybody to know who I am. I have to go after the big dogs. Congratulations, Chad, and thanks.

1:02:28I didn't expect you to be up on it. Hey, listen, let me tell you this. First of all, I was like, I was shocked. his range of emotions. I was shocked, I was like, what, what I, I'm looking at my wife like, why he, what? And I'm listening and I start leaning in, so I went from being shocked to like, my business had went on. So as soon as you start saying, I'll fight him at 68, 75, catch weight, it don't matter. Jumped on the air. Okay. I don't know if you remember, but I think like, maybe like, two, three weeks after the fight got me, I was calling like, yo, maybe can we get this fight at 170, 172?

1:03:10But y 'all was like, nah, we ain't budging. I was like, okay, okay. But see, to me, that's like, what I learned in this fight game, man, is like I got to fight just as hard at this table, this negotiating table, as I do in the ring. And I learned that. And I had to learn it the hard way too. You know what I'm saying? But once you did that, I'm like, dang. So I was hurt. Then I was like, he said what? and I fight him in Oakland, and I'm like, it don't matter. I'm like, oh, he serious, serious. So I went from that to put my business hat on to then I called Jay, my manager. I was like, hey, Jay, I said, I don't know why he want me.

1:03:49He started laughing. I said, but we got a hold of him to everything he said. Yeah. You know, because... Yeah, I did. I did. Because, bro, you ain't nothing to play with, bro. Like, you wasn't nothing to play with. Do you remember the face-off we did? Remember that? You said something to me. We was in Vegas, yeah. Yeah, you said something. I forgot what you said to me. I know you said something about the... You said we have... What's the call in the camp? Do you beat Miranda? No, no, no, not yet. Not yet. I'm saying that was at the weigh-in, but I'm saying... Oh, it's on the weigh-in. Remember they made us do that face-off and they made us ask each other questions like...

1:04:21Oh, yeah. You talking about Invader? Who was Invader? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember that? Yeah, when we did the round table thing. Yeah, what type of feel was you getting from me in the lead-up? Like just being around me and stuff like... Because we ain't really been around each other. Oh, you were serious? Yeah. I know you're serious. I remember one, before the fight even got made, I was in Vegas, we was in Vegas, and my brother was with me. You remember that? Yeah. My brother went up to me and was like, yo man, fight my brother. And when my brother got back to me, I was like, what you do that for, nigga?

1:04:51You know what I'm saying? What you do that for? You ain't got to do all that. You ain't got to take the fight. You ain't got to be running up and talking shit. You know what I'm saying? But yeah. I remember that. I know you're a serious dude. When we met that day, that's when I realized, I was like, yo, this dude, serious dude. I was like, here's serious dude. I was like, here's your head playing. I was like, here's your head playing. You had a mug on your face the whole time. I had to lock in, bro. Yo, you been smiling that one time. I had to lock in. I watched that face off again last night.

1:05:19I had to lock in, bro. Yo, you been smiling that one time. I was like, oh, this dude, serious. Man, but I'm going to keep it real with you, though. Once I knew we fighting, we started putting out them radars, man. So like you training Johnny tacos. Like I knew the days you took off. I knew the days you train. Like I wasn't checking, but my team was, yeah, he ain't show up two days in a row. I'm like, oh yeah. Like they knew. We had like plants everywhere. You know what I'm saying? I heard that. Yeah. I heard that. I definitely heard that. It's that serious, bro. Like this is, this is war, man.

1:06:01Like, it's like, we can really get hurt. So it's like, I'm not the type that, I don't really need information like that, but that was like Verge and Jay and you know, they were the ones that was doing it and they would bring it back to me. So I'm not the type that's like, oh, tell me this. Because I feel like I shouldn't have to know that to be confident, but I'm going to take the information off if it's given to me. So I want to, there's something I always want to know, bro. Like you got to take me into your camp, bro, for that fight, man. Tell me about that camp, bro, for you. It wasn't my best camp.

1:06:28Mm-hmm. It was so much going on, man. I had family problems. Really? Me and my immediate family, my wife, my wife, my mother, my father, and my brother, I had beefing with them. There was so much going on, man. There was so much going on. But I was able to block all that out. That had nothing to do with the fight. I was able to block all that out, still get in shape and do what I had to do. So much stuff happened in that camp, man. I sparred with Miranda. Miranda. He dropped me in sparring. wasn't bad. It wasn't nothing crazy. It was just a boom. Hit my butt. Get right back up. Finished sparring.

1:07:02You finished? Yeah. Finished sparring every day. I got up and finished whooping on him. Yeah. But yeah, he dropped me in camp. Then that got out quick. Yo, that, I woke up the next morning and that was all over. And then all over everywhere. Chad dropped in camp. Dropped in camp. I didn't see it though. No, nothing nobody said. It wasn't recorded. No, no, I'm saying like, I didn't see it. I didn't see it nowhere. You didn't? Bro, you know what it was? It was going around in Vegas. Yeah, I think they was talking about it. Because I remember we was like, so we was checking. Yeah. And I remember being like, how does this thing get out?

1:07:36Mm-hmm. Like I didn't see it on the internet. Yeah. But it was definitely being talked about. Yeah, it was in Vegas. How many, what gym were you at? We was at a private gym. But it was somebody in there leaked it. I know who leaked it. Who leaked it? It was the Cutman. I can't think of his name. Raphael? Raphael was my Cutman. Okay, okay. Rafael never did. It was the older guy. He wore glasses. He's about the same age, Rafael. Black dude? Older guy. White dude. I can't think of his name. You know it was him? How'd you know it was him? I know it was him. Somebody told me it was him, but he was there.

1:08:12People were saying it was him. So, I mean, it had to be him. And he used to be my cut man. But then I got rid of him for Rafael. Yeah. So that right there put a little... Yeah. So that's how I know it was him. Yeah. How did you get through the rest of that camp? Like was that messing with you? Like, dang bro, you dropped me. Yeah, it did. It messed with me a little bit. I think we were like three weeks out at that point. Nah, I think it was two weeks out. Two weeks out, Kyle. It was two weeks out. It messed with me. It messed with me. But not to the point where I felt like I couldn't go out there and still let me do my job.

1:08:48But I mean, that shit didn't bother me at all, man. Like I said, he dropped me. I got up, finished the sparring, whooping him every day like I was. That's how I knew that he shouldn't have been there for sparring because I was whooping this dude every day in sparring. Like, what is this? He don't fight nothing like Ward. He don't do nothing Ward do. But for some reason, he was there. I don't know. Was the dude Axel, was he with you? Yeah, he was with me, yeah. What was going on with the weight? When did you know I might have a problem? About two weeks out. Really? I had a target. I couldn't crack 170.

1:09:28I couldn't get to 170. Bro, I literally made the wait literally probably like an hour before the weigh in. Hour before the weigh in. And I was shocked when I got on the scale and made it the first time. I thought I was going to be getting off and going back and do some workouts. But I got on it the first time and I made it. I was shocked. Yeah, I was definitely shocked. But yeah, we knew it was going to be a problem. Bro, what made you say that? High five, you made 168. You didn't make 168 years. You know why I said that? I said that because at that time, I was in camp. In camp. I was leaving camp sometimes at 170.

1:10:01Really? Yeah, I was light. So you was down? Okay, that makes sense. We can do three more pounds. I can get down three more pounds. Yeah. But - Because you wasn't a big light heavyweight. I mean, you were big in terms of stature, but you didn't get heavy. I literally was a blown up light heavyweight. Remember, I left 160 and fought twice at 168. and went straight to Light Heavyweight, which was how Gary came to me one night was like, what do you think about competing at Light Heavyweight? I was like, I don't care, whatever. So that was how I ended up in Light Heavyweight division. Man, I remember being at camp and Verge called me to it.

1:10:38We had like two, he had like a house and it was a house behind the house. That's where I stayed for camp. And he called me and Jay was on the phone, Jay Prince. and he was like, man, Jay got something to tell you. He said, hey, man, Chad got dropped today in sparring by Miranda. I was like, what? I was like, why was Miranda there? That's the first thing I was there. Why was Miranda in camp? He was like, I don't know. He said, but man, he got dropped. So first thing I'm thinking is they're going to cancel the fight. I'm like, dang. No, I wasn't going to cancel the fight. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

1:11:09And, you know, he said, God called me, man, told me, you know, what happened. And, you know, you said you finished the sparring. They said at that time that the sparring got stopped that day, but that's what they said. He hit me, dropped me up, fell on my butt, got right back up and finished sparring. Yeah, so that's what they said. No, that's a lie. So it went from that to like, so boom, we got off the phone with Jay and Virg was like, hey, man, you need to stay focused. You need to stay locked in. So I wanted you to know that, but you need to stay locked in. So I remember that kind of messing me because I'm like, dang.

1:11:40I mean, I didn't know how to feel about it, honestly. I didn't know how to feel about it. I can imagine, yeah. Yeah, so I was shocked it didn't get out. So we checking the internet every day. I'm like, dude, ain't nobody saying nothing. So I knew it was talked about, but nobody said it. In Vegas, that joint was going around. Yeah. In Vegas, everybody knew it. I woke up the next day, people calling me, telling me, yo, asking me, yo, you got sparring and I'm like, yo, no. I'm like, mind you, when it happened, right after it happened, we were all in the gym like, make sure this don't get out to nobody.

1:12:11Everybody was on an agreement that we ain't going to tell nobody. Woke up next morning, man. It's out there. It's out there. The whole Vegas know. Man, so me being me, next week went by, I'm like, I guess we're going to fight, you know? And the week of the fight came, I didn't say nothing, bro. Did you think I was going to say something? Hold on, let me ask you this. You did say something. No, no, no. You said something. I got you. That's not the way in. Did you think that I knew? Nah. You didn't think that I knew? Because at the time, I was only hearing it in Vegas. Yeah. And nobody else said anything to me about it.

1:12:47So I'm like, yeah, nobody else said about that. But when you said it, because you said it at the weigh-in, right? I was like, this motherfucker. I was like, how he know this? I was like, yo, how he, I said, yo, I mean, I told my brother, I was like, yo, he said something about this when I got dropped in the sparring, too. I was like, yo, how he know that? I was like, I don't know. I didn't say that at the press conference. Bird said, don't say nothing. And I had to shoot. You messed me up when you said that after the weigh-in though. I seen your face, bro. You messed me up, yeah. I seen your face, bro.

1:13:18I was like, you know. I'm going to keep it real with you, bro. I felt like I knew I still had to go perform the next night, but I was like, I got him. Mm-hmm. Because your whole, like, man, your face, like everything, and I would have did the same thing if I was you. If I thought that, if that happened to me, and I thought that, man, I don't think he know. Mm-hmm. And this dude wait till the day before. And you said, yo, you messed me up when you said that. I was like, I didn't expect that at all. You said, yo, you know you had the wrong sparring partner for that camp, right? You said something like that.

1:13:48I'm going to tell you. You said something like that. We did the press conference. Didn't say nothing. We just kept it about the fight. And it was dope, too, because our fight was like, our fight was a big fight, man. It was a lot of like boxing people. Like, everybody was like, I see, man, this Chad does 100 more. I remember it was big because we had it 24-7. Yeah. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, Chad won 24-7. Yeah. And it was just a lot of people that came to Oakland that was like, man, this dude here, it was just a lot of people there. Well, before I get to the weigh-in, what was your experience being in Oakland?

1:14:16Oh, it was cool. It was cool. I mean, as far as the fans and stuff, nobody did. There wasn't nothing to respect. Of course, there were people rooting for you, like, yeah, yeah, you about to get it, you about to get it. But you hear that everywhere you go, you know what I'm saying? Especially when the fight, you're in a fight. But no, it was cool. It was cool. But the only thing, the hardest part was just making the weight. Yeah. That was just the hardest part. Yeah. Other than that, everything was cool. So we had to weigh in, man, and you had the dude, the African dude, Ak, I forgot his name. So Ak was talking crazy, my team going back and forth, and I remember I was just locked in on you like this.

1:14:50And I was like, I'm about to say that. You had his brother in camp. Yeah. I had both of them in camp. You had both of them? Yeah. I had to get on Ak, man, because of all the stuff he was talking, man. We ended up being cool after that, but like, yeah, Virg was like, just box, man. I was like, nah, I ain't boxing today. This is inspiring. Just rest my mouthpiece. Him and my trainer was like, oh, something happened. And then my other trainer knew what happened. He was like, man, this dude was on the internet talking because he was just saying a bunch of stuff. He was just talking crazy. We ended up being cool, though, man.

1:15:19And his brother helped me out for a bunch of camps, and he was good work. But at that weigh-in, though, he talking crazy. They yelling, ah. And then so me and you going eye to eye like this. I was like, I got to shoot the missile right now. I gotta shoot it right now. I leaned in. I was like, hey, bro, been tightening up tomorrow, man. I heard about what happened this morning. Yeah, it messed me up. And I leaned back like this to look at you. You was like, your face was just like, bruh, like what? And then I just, I didn't even look at you no more. I just went like this. I was like, bro. Yeah, you messed me up when you said that, though.

1:15:57I knew I still had to go win, but I was like, I got it. Yeah. That's gonna get anybody. That's going to get anybody. I couldn't believe you knew it. I was like, damn, I didn't fucking know that. I was like, whatever. How did you deal with that psychologically, bro, from that night to the fight? Like, what was you thinking about it that night? Oh yeah, I thought that was your old night. I expected you to come out and run through me, like just come out and try to push the pace. Yeah. Get me out of there. That's what I expect you to do. But you ain't do that. I mean, but first round. Because I respected you.

1:16:29Yeah, but the first round, I thought I won the first round. Yeah, I think they gave it to you. Yeah, I wanted to figure out, but after that, man, and I ain't gonna front. I ain't gonna front. I'm glad that fight happened, though. Why? I need that to happen. Why you said that? Because, I mean, even though my career wasn't the same after it happened, but I wasn't, that whole camp, I wasn't living boxing. You know what I'm saying? That whole camp, it was like, it was just so much different, like, wild shit going on. Stuff that, it was crazy. I got into it with one of my brothers at the camp. At the camp.

1:17:09Got into it with one of my brothers. So, I mean, had to send him home. I mean, it was so much, man. It was so much. I'm not taking anything away from you. No, that's your story. That's what happened. You did what you're supposed to do. You got me out of here. But at the same time, I just had so much on my plate. So much at that time. So much, so much, so much. And I was able to block all that out. As we got closer to the fight, I was able to block all that out. I wasn't even thinking about all that no more. I started focusing on the fight. Then I got dropped in camp. I got dropped by Miranda. I threw some more worries in.

1:17:42I started, oh man, I got dropped. Then I worried about it getting back to you. Then I thought everything was good because I didn't hear nothing from you about it. Then the night of the weigh-in, you said that shit. I'm like, oh man. So that took me back again. I'm like, oh man. It was so much. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot. What was it like? What was your view being in the ring? Like, just with my fight game, was it what you thought? Was it different? Like, just my overall fight game and us fighting. What was different? The crowd was crazy that night too. The crowd was crazy. What was different?

1:18:17You was more controlled. Like, you had more control over what was going on. Like, you was in the driver's seat. I mean, you was doing what you wanted to do. I mean, that's how I looked at the fight. Yeah. And I watched the fight again the other day. Like two days ago, I watched it again. And two days ago I watched it, that was my first time watching the whole fight. I watched it for like the fourth or fifth round, then I turned it off. Watched it to like fourth, fifth, turn it off. But the other night I watched the whole fight. And I'm like, yo, I ain't really mad. You know what I'm saying? I ain't really mad because I lost to you.

1:18:52Yeah. I mean, if I lost to anybody else, maybe I would have been mad, but because I lost to you, my Olympian, somebody who was bred for this, I lost to you. It's not, but if I lost to somebody like, the Donah Stevenson loss was worse on me than that because I knew I could beat a Donah Stevenson, but he's coming with that punch. I didn't get an opportunity to finish. But yeah, like I said, I always thought the greatest, I thought you was the best. I watched you when you first turned pro I think I turned pro a little while before you a year before you and I watched you I saw you in the Olympics I knew of you I knew who you was but like I said Gary Shaw got in my head I said what I said like I said I don't regret it I needed that to happen I was watching that fight last night and it's like you know, I felt like that was one of my best fights because I had to, like, I had to be that.

1:19:58You know what I mean? It's like when you got real danger and you got a real guy on the other side, like, elite guys rise, man. You got to, I have to be this. Your best fight was against the whole one. Copa Laird? That was your best fight. I like, you know, I like what happened in our fight because, again, like, when I seen, like, just even your last two fights, like, there's nothing, I didn't see a lot that I was like, oh, I'm a dog, this dude. I'm like, dang, this dude, this dude. It was always crazy, because you tall, right? You look even taller on T. I'm like, how tall is this dude? Your arms stretched to the wall.

1:20:34Yeah, I'm like, bro, how's this dude making weight? And they're like, he ain't no big like heavyweight. I'm like, how? He don't struggle to make weight like heavyweight. When I first went to that, I was weighing in like at 171, 172. Yeah, that's crazy. What we should have did, though, what I didn't think about was like we could have fought for both titles. I didn't know that we could do that. I think Sugar Ray Leonard did it with the dude Johnny Ledone, I think it was. They fought for, I think that - Well, I'm glad we didn't fight for both titles. I'm glad we didn't. I feel you, bro. I'm selfish you thinking about that, yeah.

1:21:05But I thought it would've been dope just from a... before that result. Because we made it 68 and then we could've waited again for 75. We could've did that. I'd be like, man, I don't know why I wasn't thinking about that. But I feel you, though. Yeah, I'm glad we didn't. I feel you, though. I feel you, though. Yeah, I had to be on point, bro. and you know, got a lot of respect for your fight game, man. And I know that had to be tough, bro. Like what was your takeaway like after the fight, like that night, the next day, like how did you like process the loss? First of all, thanks for the ass whooping.

1:21:43First of all, nah, I was messing up. It happened to all of us, man. Mentally? Like I said, mentally, it didn't mess with me that bad. Like the Stevenson fight did.

1:21:56But, like I said, I didn't go home. I didn't go home. You stayed in Vegas. I stayed in Vegas. Was your parents at that fight? That went to Oakland? Was my dad there? No, no. My dad wasn't there. No? Mm-mm. So he wasn't coming to fights like that? My father came to all my fights. Okay. Just about... Just not that much. Oh, because you said y 'all had a little family thing going on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Before that, he was in... Okay, I got you. He was in Auburn. I stayed in Vegas for three years. Yeah. I mean, I didn't want to go back home. I didn't want to hear nobody. Yeah. I didn't want to talk to nobody about it.

1:22:26Because, you know, people talk. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he get. So, I didn't want to hear none of that. So, I stayed in Vegas. Stayed there for three years. And, yeah, man, I just went through it. Was you communicating with your family at that time? Nah. Really? Dang. Nah. Dang. Well, the community, my family, my mother. I say, I ain't talked to them for like, I ain't talked to them for like four years. Like four years, I ain't talked to them. No talking? Dang, bro. That's heavy. Yeah. You do, you say certain things to me, disrespect like that. They said some things, they said I just kind of let go.

1:23:08You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That's right. Y 'all better now, or is it still the same? Oh, we better now? My mom just died last, like, my mom died in January. Dang bro, I didn't know that man, I'm sorry to hear that dog. Yeah, we was on talking to him, we was speaking again before that though. Man bro. But yeah, it's like, sometimes you can't let slide, you know what I'm saying? Like disrespect my family, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you gotta protect your family man. So it's like, I cut them off from that, then when I moved back to on CT, still ain't talked to him for like another while. But wow.

1:23:45Even when you moved back? Because, man, it took me a long time to get over that. You know what I'm saying? Like, all right, I can let bygone, keep bygone now. But it took a while, man. Man, you fought Adonis Stevenson nine months later. You won some fights, lost some fights over the next three, four years. On August 18, 2022, you finally made the decision to walk away from the sport. How did you come to that decision? Me and my wife. So I was like, you know what it was? Last professional fight I had, I just ain't feel it. I ain't feel good. I wanted to fight, but it wasn't me. You know what I'm saying?

1:24:21I just knew I didn't have it no more. I knew it was different. I knew it was time for me to hang it up. I ain't move the same. How was that camp? I ain't have it no more. I mean, camp was mediocre camps. You know what I'm saying? I just, you know what I'm saying? Come to a time where you just gotta let something go, and I just chose that. That was the time to just let it go. Like, I don't... And you get tired of getting punched in the head. I got tired of that. I got tired of hard training camps, long training camps. And now I just, I'm happy all that's over. No more training camps, no more fights, the anxiety before the fight, anxiety before the camp, all that's over now.

1:25:05Now I can just live. I get a lot of love and respect from my city, so it's like, I'm content. I'm happy with my career. I feel like, man, if you can survive this sport, everything else in life just seems a little bit easier. Yeah, yeah. Like, even the hard stuff in life is like... Especially boxing. Even the hard stuff in life is like, it ain't that hard. Yeah. You know, obviously, a death in something is just a different level, but I'm saying, like, normal hard life, like, bro, it ain't training camp. It ain't 12 weeks. It ain't being away from my family. It ain't having to spar three dudes when I'm tired.

1:25:37Well, I got my two sons play basketball, and they got a strength trainer, and she's always telling them because she trained with me before too so she know how hard I work when I train so she's trying to tell them you got to see how your father worked when he's working and I know eventually they'll get it I know eventually they'll get it because it took me a while to get it if you want to do this you got to work you're not going to get it for free you got to work to get this so they'll get it I just want to instill that into them because you got to work hard at everything you do Nothing that's going to be given to you.

1:26:15Don't nobody care about how you feel. You know what I'm saying? You got to go out there and get on your own. I told my son that the other day. He plays football. I said, son, I said, nobody cares. You got to work harder. Nobody care about your leg hurting, your foot hurting. Maybe mom and dad will be like, all right, man, let's get somebody. The reality is, is nobody cares. I didn't catch the ball because the son was, nobody cares. You just got to figure it out. Yeah. And I could tell he don't understand right now. Because, you know, youngsters think they work hard. It's like, y 'all don't really know what hard work is.

1:26:51Especially the kids today. That's what I'm saying. The kids today, though. That's what I'm saying. They look at, they see the finished product of a Steph Curry or whoever. I'm him. I can do that. Do you know how many jump shots? Do you understand? Like, you don't understand the journey from here to there. You just see that and think that you can do that. But that's why boxing is so different. Boxing is different because Nobody sees us work Nobody ever sees us work The work that we put in To get to the fight All they see is the fight Yeah But they don't know That the training camp Is harder than the fight Straight up Training camp is harder than the black People are like oh Oh The fight was hard Nah bro It wasn't harder than the training camp though Two months of You know what I'm saying Getting up at 530 in the morning Three workouts a day You know what I'm saying You get tired of that You know what I'm saying I don't miss that bro I don't either.

1:27:41Not one bit. Every now and again, I feel like, man, you know, it'd be cool to get my squad together again. But I'll be like, nah, nah, nah. Cool, cool, cool. Floyd Mayweather was the only person that made training camp look fun. He's still doing it. The only one that made training camp look fun. I'm like, bro, it's not that fun. You just a good showman. Mm-hmm. Because it's not that fun. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I hated training camp, bro. Training at four o 'clock in the morning. I hated it, bro. I hated it, bro. Man, I know you said you live a quiet life, but how are you dealing with retirement and how do you manage them flames that are on the inside?

1:28:15Because they don't die when you retire. That drive and that - Yeah, I know. I just do it. I just do it, man. Look at my sons. I got two that play basketball. I got one that, but both of them are good, but one is really good. Could be a Division I basketball player. You know what I'm saying? and I just want I wish I wish I wish they were old enough to see me train you know what I'm saying but they weren't old enough to see me train you know what I'm saying but I wish they could see and then if they could see high training then they'll know you know what I mean that it nothing you do is gonna come easy like even if you're good at it you could be the most talented basketball player in the world but if you ain't got the work ethic it ain't gonna it ain't gonna work just like with boxing if you gotta have work ethic in boxing if you don't have work ethic it's not gonna work you can't just run and not go to the gym.

1:29:06You can't just go to the gym and not run. They go together. And eat right. Yeah. And stay away from the wrong people. All the stuff. Yeah. How did you get hooked up with Jake Paul, man? You been to Jake Paul's camp. How did you get hooked up with Jake Paul, bro? I don't know. I got to call out the blue. Yeah? They call out the blue. They're like, yo, Jake Paul wants you to come to camp with him and give him some work. At the time, I was like, I'm curious to see what's going on down there. So I went down there. He's a cool dude, man. Yeah. Cool dude. We had some good sparring sessions. I don't like the fact that he said, nah, never that.

1:29:42He gonna say that. Yeah, never that. He gonna pop that. Nah, that was Cap. That was all Cap. Yeah, I ain't appreciate that either, man. That was all Cap. Yeah, I ain't appreciate that either. It's like, man, you got a dude that's a former world champ, bro. Yeah. Even if that was the case, you don't say that. But that's how you know he not like a real boxing guy. Because real boxing people that's really like that, your respect to override you dealing with a dude in sparring. We just keep that offline. Yeah. I can say something that happened in sparring that he might not want to get out. Yeah. But.

1:30:14Yeah. Yeah. But I keep it to myself. Yeah. But that's it, man. Hey, bro, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate you too. Me, man, this was this almost like therapy for me, bro. Like being able to like talk to you, man. And like, you know, I'm not saying we had a hatchet, but whatever it was, bury it and give the fans something beautiful, man. And I'm glad I was able to get that off my chest, bro, about our fight, man. And I appreciate your perspective on it, too, man. It's a grown man perspective. You know what I'm saying? I appreciate you, bro. Yeah, man. We came a long way from the fight, what, 15 years ago?

1:30:47Long time, bro. 15 years now, right? Yeah. Damn. Time flies, man. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. Hey, man. That's it. It's another episode of the Art Award. Personally, me, this is one of my favorite ones. I hope you enjoy it too. We'll see y 'all next time.