Fundora vs Thurman: The Psychology, The Power & Why BOTH Say It Won't Go The Distance

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. What up, this is your boy Roy Jones Jr. I'm hanging out with my man, Andre Ward. We two Hall of Famers will bring y 'all a show called the Hall of Game. A show where we discuss boxing, sports, life, and entertainment from our view. How much better neck can you get? Me and Roy don't always agree. The one thing you will get is a Hall of Fame worth a game. We got a great show today on the Hall of Game. We have a great card, March 28th, at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. Man, there's been so many great fights in this arena in Las Vegas on PBC, pay-per-view on Prime Video.

0:45We have Sebastian the Towering Inferno Fondora, who stands 6 '5 1⁄2", with an 80-inch reach, against the always fun-to-watch former world champion Keith One Time Thurman, who has fought only two times in the last five years. One fighter is young. He's red hot. You got another fighter who's older, but has a lot of experience in the game. He's extremely hungry to be back. Great stage, great opportunity, great moment for both fighters. I'm excited to talk to both these guys today, Roy. Me too. Today, my guest is a former unified welterweight champion. Sometimes he's an orator. Sometimes he's a philosopher.

1:26for it's not Keith one-time Thurman anymore. I think it's Keith two-time Thurman now because it's the second run for Keith Thurman. He's bringing this thing back around after a long layoff. He says he's fresh. He's feeling as good as ever. I want to welcome to the show Keith Thurman. Brother, thank you for taking some time to be on the show with us today. What's good, champ? What's good, man? Happy to be here. This is the second training camp for Pandora. You know, one training camp is hard enough. Tell me about the second go-round. He had an injury the first time around. what did you do when you heard about the injury what have you done since that time period and then how's this uh second training camp been man i did everything you ain't supposed to do man i took my daughter out to ice cream daily i was like i was like hey girl you want ice cream it was rhetorical i bought her one scoop i got myself three scoops you feel me i was i was just emotionally eating you know and uh it just it just was a very big disappointment at the to end off 2025, right?

2:26I mean, I felt like we was getting the ball rolling. I thought 2025 was my comeback year. And, um, you know, uh, the fight was scheduled October 25th, a month later was my birthday. And then the following month was Christmas. So to not get that check and to enjoy that downtime with family, you know, on an up note, you know, it was a little, it was a little depressing man but at the end of the day uh time heals all wounds we got past 2025 we flipped over into the new calendar year 2026 of course i you know i just got all that negative mindset off of me i started getting back into my my positive thoughts optimism and i knew that this is what they wanted this is what this is what fundora's team wanted this is what pbc wanted and I mean the fans want this fight so I knew I just had to hold my position like on a chessboard you know what I'm saying sometimes you gotta not really move your pieces once you got them where they need to be you you just gotta wait to strike and we're right down to the deadline once again I'm good he seems to be good we ain't get no phone call baby and it looks like this fight is going down and I'm looking forward to it yeah I know I know you probably holding your breath man when you see your manager call in or your team call in.

3:51You know, you don't want to repeat what happened the first training camp, but people don't understand what that feels like. When you're in training camp, every day is a battle with yourself. You're pushing through physically. You're taking your body physically past points of extreme, you know, daily, two, three times a day. But you're also spending money. You got physical therapists, massage therapists, sparring partners the whole nine so you i used to get to the end of camp and i'll be writing them checks to my sparring partners and i say yeah it's time to fight i'm trying to i'm trying to make some money but i'm trying to make some money like i'm starting to feel like it's time i didn't been putting out it's time to make that money so to get that call that late it's got it's got to be difficult and people think oh just move on it's like it's not that easy a lot of times you do have to go through a period of recovery to get yourself back together yeah I mean you know unfortunately like I said man I really I kind of was emotionally eating and after like I had to check myself in December before the new year you know what I mean I had to check myself I went on a nice little 21 day uh raw food diet that's that's something I like to do to myself like once or twice a year uh go three weeks of just eating raw foods nothing cooked fruits, berries, nuts, vegetables.

5:10The only thing I give myself like a, sometimes like almond butter. I don't even know the process of that, if it's roasted or whatever. I give myself almond butter. I snack on that and different things. But yeah, so I had to check myself in December. Then I had to really get right in January. And, you know, I just have, you know, we just got to count our blessings sometimes, man. Luckily, I was the one who was not injured. Let's be real. Like you said, we put out a lot of money. We put out a lot of effort. We have all these therapists. What I tell people, man, is like, I beat myself up so nobody can beat me up, right?

5:49That's my job. That's the way I look at my job. I got to grind hard, train twice a day, three times a day. I got to beat this body up so that nobody can beat it up. That's the process, man. And sometimes we get injured preparing for our fights. I'm three surgeries in. I know what it's like. I made my one little video. I vented for everybody. I put a little into it. But ultimately, I understand what it is. I understand the sport of boxing. And like I said, man, we just had to hold tight. And hey, man, God knows what he's doing. I know you as a soldier of God, God knows what he's doing. And if my comeback year is supposed to be 2026, then so be it.

6:32That's right. I'm going to ask another one. I'm going to let Roy get in here. You're literally facing a towering inferno. You know, a guy that's six, five and a half. PBC website has you at five, nine and a half. Is that accurate? Take an inch off. So five, nine. I wanted to give you the half inch, but you say five, nine? No, five. five eight and a half. I said, take an inch off. Take an inch off, not a half inch. So you five eight and a half. Okay. I know. The doctor hurt my heart. I said, doctor, just say five nine. He's like, I'm sorry, champ. Five eight and a half. Yeah. So you five eight and a half.

7:09He's six five and a half, Keith. You have talked a great deal, right, over the last year about how you feel about facing him and this is a challenge that you're up for. This is what you live for. Or break that down for the people. When you face an opponent with that kind of height and reach event, he's also got an 80-inch reach. That's a lot to deal with. What is the mindset preparing for a guy with those kind of advantages? You know, luckily, I was able to get the same sparring partners from last camp. I really liked what they brought to the table. It's really for my eyes to adjust to what this conversation is about right now, that length, the distance, that long jab.

7:49and it you know to say that it's it's not a lot of work it's it's it is you know because they can hit me before I can hit them I gotta use defense I gotta be uh tricky in my tactics and that's my favorite thing man is really having having poise having an understanding of the ring but when you can get tricky with it right you know that's that's that's that's that thing that I feel like a lot of people don't talk about in boxing. And I like to tell my amateurs this all the time, right? You don't want to be hit. The other man doesn't want to be hit. How do you hit each other? The best wrong answer is speed.

8:31Speed gets there, right? I give them a nice little B plus for that, right? But the answer I'm looking for is if I trick you, then I don't need permission to hit you. If I trick you, look here, boom, look, boom, you know, you're not, you know, look at the way I set up my last knockout, right? That uppercut came from nowhere, right? And so I got him, I got him protecting the sides and then bink him. I put one right up the middle, something he didn't see. When you trick him, you get to hit him without permission. So, you know, as a veteran, man, I believe that that's going to be a key to victory and just, you know, taking advantage of just moments and maybe even trading in the pocket.

9:19I mean, it's dangerous, but it's always been dangerous to trade with me. Many men have found that out, and I think Fendora is no exception. So the element of surprise where we're coming from, huh? Oh, man. So the element of surprise, right? You know, rhythm, rhythm, set them off, faints. You know, you was playful. You was tricking them all, Roy. You was tricking him all the time, baby. That's why I'm laughing. That's why I'm laughing. Yeah, man. You was tricking him all the time, man. I don't need permission, but I'm about to slap you, boy. So how were you able to keep that same hunger for this fight, or did it give you even more hunger having that setback?

10:03You know, honestly, man, it's a weird blessing in disguise. I don't wish my career on nobody. all the ups and downs um political stumbling blocks that I've ran into through my career through my journey and my road in this sport of boxing I don't wish it on nobody man but honestly it's all the inactivity that just is like put me back in the game coach what what's Thurman doing on the bench it's time let's get the Thurman show back going it's Thurman versus everybody. You can't make a bad Thurman fight. You just can't. You can send me to Disney World, I'll fight Gaffey Duck, and it's going to be entertaining.

10:45Okay? I promise you, man. So I just love the sport. And I know both of you know that there was a time where we was amateurs. We did this for free. We did this for trophies. We did this to make our moms and our dads proud of us. We wasn't even thinking about money. Then we turned pro. We got a little bit of dough. And then we got on TV and we got mo. And then we got mo. And then there was a moment where we were champions and we was on top of the world. And all of a sudden. it feels like a job and it don't feel like a dream no more you know and i'm very fortunate that my time away from the sport has shown me that i missed this thing like you know like that girl that got away you know what i'm saying like that one like she was bad he was like how'd i mess that up man oh man you know i don't really got it like that i'm just making an analogy I love my wife.

11:46I love my wife and my kids. You know what I'm saying? But we all know, we know where I'm coming from. You know what I'm saying? Like, Ooh, man, if I could only, you know, not being so stupid, you know, and different things, you know, so that's that emotion. I got that emotion back, man. We're really, if, if Keith Thurman retires today, the story is nice, but my heart will be sad, you know? And I don't want to live with a sad heart. And that's why I'm in here grinding. And that's why I'm taking up the youngest, toughest, one of the biggest challenges at 154 today is just because I need to satisfy my heart and my soul.

12:23And the only way of doing that is getting in the bright lights, MGM Grand against Sebastian Fundora, the towering inferno. And then to put a smile on my face, we got to make it manifest, baby. Tumbo! And it's going to make everything, it's going to make everything bitter taste so sweet, you know? Only some people know that feeling where you can take all that bitterness in life and you can convert it back into something sweet that manifests, man. And I'm just an optimistic soul. I believe in my skills, my talent, everything that I've learned in this sport of boxing. And that this journey, like Ward was saying, man, this is that second time Keith Thurman is going to show the world, you know, what he brings to the table in the sport of boxing.

13:07On that particular night, Keefe, he's known as being a tall guy, but close inside. Who's going to be the better fighter inside? Yeah, you know, he's got good uppercuts on the inside. You know, he knows how to change it up on the inside, you know. But at the same time, he's vulnerable. He's vulnerable. You know, before I sign a contract, well, in the process of signing a contract, you know, I look at the guy, and one of the first things I look at is actually not offense. the first thing I look at is defense right so I look at how many times is this guy getting hit by the people he's fighting does he get touched or is he really hard to touch and on a certain level you know besides you know the way he was able to keep Tim Zhu away on the first fight because in the second fight Tim Zhu actually did land some punches but he still quit and and Fendora still kind of dominated, but he took more punches in the second fight than he did the first fight.

14:06And everybody else he fought, Erickson Lugan and all these other people I saw on film, he's getting touched by everybody. So his defense is not a 10, you know, it's not a 10. His offense is a form of his defense. That's what they say. When they declare somebody a volume puncher, that means that his volume is really a problem. And he's breaking people down with the volume and overwhelming them and things of that nature. I've never been notorious for volume. I have a good punch count, but not notorious for volume. When I was going to fight Sean Porter, I knew Sean Porter was going to throw more punches than me.

14:52I had to be more precise than him. and I had to nullify his offense with my defense. That's what defense does. It nullifies offense. Okay. And so I'm going to have to use those skills, those tactics, and I'm going to have to be sharper and make statements each and every round, you know, to get that highlight reel, as I like to call it. You, when the highlights are done, boom, you see Thurman landing punches, bing, bing, boom, you know, and then that should lean towards me winning the rounds. and ultimately, you know, if I can really hit him and hurt him, we're going to have to get the man out of there.

15:27Man, it sounds like the mind game is very important, man, the IQ, especially at 37, you know, finding ways to lay traps and use, you know, the younger fighter's eagerness against him. But I want to ask you about this video, man. We did this when we interviewed you before, man. Tell me about the epic viral video that you had when, you know, you guys were doing the first press conference and you were breaking down how you thought the fight was going to go. And they were talking about naturally, which, you know, reporters are going to do. They're talking about the height and the reach. And you said, but y 'all are forgetting one thing, the power.

16:04And you said, when he gets hit with that shot, you said, boom, when he get hit with that first shot, it's going to be alert, alert, warning, warning. danger danger what's your mindset as you as you talking about that fight bro because you meant every word of it you know like you said man see we are warriors only those who have gone to war understand certain things that other human beings don't understand Right. Everybody else, everybody who's really been to war or been in the fire, UFC, I don't care what form of combat you've done. There is an experience of being. To just being able to clash with another man on a battlefield.

16:55Right. No matter what type of battlefield that is. So. it's it's all psychology at the end of the day what i was talking about was pure psychology and this goes back to one of the world famous quotes from iron mike himself everybody got a game plan until they get hit right now Now, see, one thing I was trying to explain to people is that Fondora's got some great wins on his record. But a lot of those men are broken souls. Erickson Lubin, he was knocked out before, you know. And by the time he got Tim Zhu a second time, the Tim Zhu that quit in the ring, instead of the Tim Zhu that bled down his face the whole time, he was knocked out before that second rematch.

17:48So he really tasted defeat, defeat. Keith Thurman's never tasted defeat. So you got to deal with a soldier. And when Mike Tyson talks about that punch, Fundora, he's been knocked out before. This is what I was explaining. The psychology is when a big punch lands, no matter how much confidence he is reestablishing after his first career loss and he's back on, he's back on a roll, people. He's back up. He's climbing that ladder high. OK, he's feeling good. And when he gets hit, every cell in his body, every cell is going to awaken and something deep in that subconscious mind is going to come to the forefront of his mind.

18:35And it's not a choice. It's not a choice. I don't know. I should have a plaque on the wall. Can I get a doctorate? Can I get a doctorate degree up in here? OK, I know this game, people in and out. in and out from every cell of the body what it means to be a fighter and my original coach banghetti see roy jones knows who banghetti is okay you can look up you can look up roy jones um sparring what scully who was that white boy scully back in the day yep john scully you look up roy jones and john scully and look who's in the ring with these two fighters his name was Ben Getty. That was my coach. That was my coach.

19:21First time he laid eyes on Roy Jones Jr., he said he's going to be champion of the world. He loved Andre Ward. Andre Ward don't even know how much my coach loved him, you know, before he even grabbed that gold medal. And he said he just boxed so proper, so precise, so his defense, offense, his game was right, you know. But my coach loved power. So he loved Andre Berto growing up. He loved watching me. Once he knew I had that power. He knew people. Once you land, he said, with 10-ounce gloves? Because we was in the amateurs. He said, I don't care who it is, boy. With 10-ounce gloves, you hit them on the chin, they're gonna do a pretty little dance.

20:00You know? So you're saying you're gonna wake them sales up. You're gonna wake the Fondera sales up. I hear you. I've been doing this for too long, man. We love this and we want to bring it. The power of now, man. The backstories, the layoffs, the injuries. None of that matters right here right now. Only this fight matters. Y 'all got short-term memories on TikTok anyway, scrolling all day long. Keith Thurman needs one new highlight reel and we're going to get the world hyped once again about the Thurman show. That's right. Well, man, brother, we appreciate you, man. We know it's not easy doing these interviews, man.

20:36In the middle of training camp, it won't be long. March 28th, MGM Grand Garden Arena, PBC pay-per-view, Prime Video, brother. You back in the spotlight. Handle your business, man. Thanks again for the time on The Hall of Game. One love. I'm off to the gym. Thank you. Take care, fellas. Handle your business, brother. All right, brother. Welcome back to another episode of The Hall of Game. There's a big fight card, March 28th at the MGM Grand Garden Arena on PBC pay-per-view on Prime Video. And we have one of the main event fighters, the reigning WBC super welterweight champion, Sebastian the Towering Inferno Fondora.

21:13Brother, thank you for taking some time to come on the Hall of Game today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me, really. Man, how are you feeling, man? This is the second time around. You had the injury leading into the first fight. As the fight was very, very close, I think it was less than two weeks away or somewhere around two weeks away. This is the second time around. How's this second training camp been for you? You know, we just continued from the first one. With a hand injury, you know, slow some things down, but we continued to train. Recover at the same time, but, you know, we couldn't have stopped training because as you know as well, as a former world champion, as one of the top fighters in the world, we just can't stop.

21:48You know, once you're in that world, you know, you can't get out of it. And if you get out of it, it's hard to come back in. Your sister is the Undisputed Flyweight Champion and she just defended her titles on Saturday night. How does that motivate you when you see your sister go before you go and she gets it done and she puts on for the family name? It's very motivating. It's very motivating, you know, watching her defend her titles and win in spectacular fashion. Watching her put in her work in the gym, it just motivates me for my fight and to represent the family as well. I love how close you and your sister are.

22:20You guys are really close. Sometimes you see boxing families and the fighters, they're around each other, but that love and that passion. I can see her when you fight. She's trying to fight for you, and it's the same thing when she fights. I can see you trying to fight for her. how did you guys like develop that relationship and how is you know boxing sort of been that glue for you guys it's like any other sibling bonding you know it just uh we grew up with each other we went to the tournaments together uh we still live with each other so you know training and all those things it we continue to grow with each other you know we talked to Keith Thurman about this and how he dealt with the postponement and I know you said that you just have to keep going just have to keep moving but but it is disappointing you get deep into a camp you've spent money, you're looking sharp, you've already started your weight cutting and something like that, that's unexpected.

23:10How did you sort of bounce back mentally from that postponement? You know, injuries happen in the sport. Injuries happen in all kinds of sports. Boxing is a year-round sport though. So, you know, for me to get injured, it kind of sucks that that date didn't happen, but, you know, I train year-round, so that's not really a problem for me to cut weight or anything. I have to maintain these things regardless. So to continue training camp was not really too much of a bother. Did you take any time off or did you literally keep going? I literally just kept going. There's no time off. There's no time off in the sport.

23:46If you want to make it to the top, I feel. So you being 6 '5 1⁄2", you're always going to be the taller fighter. I don't know if you've ever fought anybody that looked at you eye to eye. but most of the questions are for your opponents and how hard it is for them to find sparring partners to mimic your height and your reach and your style. Is it ever hard for you to find sparring partners for the opponents that you have to fight and namely in this case Keith Thurman? I don't think so. I don't think so. My dad handles all those sparring and all that but I feel like it's just the style but watching their fights, You know, you never find a Keith Thurman.

24:26You'll never find, let's say, a Tim Su. There's always just that one person that has it. Of course, you'll never find a Sebastian Vendora. You might find a guy that's 6 '6 or 154. You might have all the attributes as Sebastian Vendora, but he will not be Sebastian Vendora, you know? Right. Sebastian, tell me where you think you're a better fighter, inside or outside? I feel more comfortable on the inside, But, you know, I've been working a lot more on the outside as well, too. So, you know, it's just wherever the fight is comfortable for me. But a lot of times I feel comfortable on the inside because I know those shots aren't going to miss.

25:04You know, I'm going to throw a power shot. It's not going to miss, whether it's an uppercut or a hook. But I'm going to land it for sure. So that's the reason you like fighting inside more then? Because you're guaranteed to land the shots. Yes, yes. Yeah, I can throw 10 punches, 20 punches, and they're all, or most of them are going to land. So that's where, you know, you want to throw these hard punches. You don't want to waste them because that can get you tired. Yeah, so being 6 '5", most guys think that they want to fight inside instead of outside. But I feel like you did more damage to Eriks Lubin on the inside.

25:35Do you feel like that would be the case in this fight with Thurman? It could be. It could be. But, you know, I think Lubin was maybe not expecting that fight. For some reason, I don't know, because I remember in the beginning of the fight, he was trying to box and box and box. And for some reason, in the end of the second round, he started coming on the inside. I was like, OK, well, if that's what you want to do, let's do it. And I remember dropping him in that second round. Yeah. And, you know, the ties changed from that. Where is Keith Thurman still dangerous at 37 years of age? Of course, he still has his power.

26:09But I think everybody in the ring with those 10 ounces can hit. So, you know, that's something you don't want to get hit by. But he definitely has his experience as well. You know, he's been there at the top level. He's been one of the pound-for-pound fighters for a while, too. So, you know, it's just outwitting him. And I definitely think I have the talent and the experience as well to do it. What do you make of the layoff? You know, he hasn't fought very much in the last five years. I think this will be the third time that he's fought in the last five years. You've been active. You're, you know, you're peaking.

26:40You're on the come up. And you haven't probably reached your peak yet. But what do you make of that for him? And do you look at it like he's rested? Do you look at it like, you know, yeah, you're rested, but you're going to be rusty and you're older? Like, how do you honestly look at an older fighter who hasn't fought very much in the last five years? I mean, realistically, it's not well for the sport. But in my mindset, I cannot look at Keith Thurman as if he's been resting or rusted or anything like that. I have to look at Keith Thurman as if he just beat Danny Garcia, you know, the best Keith Thurman, because that's what we're expecting.

27:18Whether he brings it or not, that's up to him, but I have to be ready for the best. What do you think was the biggest difference in the first fight with Tim Su and the second fight with Tim Su? I think it's just maybe the confidence level, you know, coming off that loss didn't seem too, too, I don't know. It just, there was the little switch that I didn't have in the beginning. And then after it was the sixth round or the fourth round, with that first fight, we felt more comfortable going back in there like, okay, this guy definitely isn't as what everybody was making him seem was. And then the second one, we beat him already.

27:56I knew how his punches felt. I knew how everything felt. I knew we could hurt him without the cut. Everybody was focused on the cut that he ran into, but they're focused on the wrong thing. If you're in this sport, which you guys are, You guys know, you know, you feel the punches. You're the one in the ring. You know how it is. It's like, no, this guy's not as good as everybody's making a scene. Do you feel like people underestimate your inside ability? The fact that you can fight so well inside being 6 '5"? You think they underestimate that? Yes, of course, of course. You're always hearing, oh, you're here for Thurman himself.

28:29Let's chop this tree down. Let's hit the body. Go ahead and hit my body, man. I'm a boxer. I'm a boxer. I box. I get hit. All these things, you know, we go in there. I am a world champion, but, you know, it's up to me to prove it wrong, you know, always. So, you know, March 28th, I'll show you guys again. Fandor, your lone loss was a knockout loss. How did you process that? How did you bounce back from that and get yourself in the position that you're in right now? It was a blessing, you know, it's a blessing in disguise. We got a lot of things off of that loss. We got that title fight off of that loss.