Jermall Charlo: The Truth About Turning Down Canelo, Al Haymon’s Handshake Deal & The Comeback at 36

31:08You never just look back at it. And it's hard to explain it to somebody that's never dealt with that, but I had never dealt with it before either. And then when I dealt with it for the first time, It was just like, it was just like something I had to just get better with, you know?

31:32I don't talk down on her. I'd rather be friends with her. But then it's moving to a point where, like, I want to be my brother's. Best friend. But guess who's my brother's best friend? His wife? She is. My ex-wife. Oh, man. Dang. But I'm not mad at him. Man, I'm their best friend. At least you can be. I said, damn. Dang, bro. That's a one right there. What you mean? Like, currently, present day, they still best friends? They best friends. Dang. He go to the house and hang out and go eat and chill. the kids go over there. I don't get to see the kids. But you have said, though, that during this period, though, your brother, you and your brother became closer, so he was there.

32:29From what I understand, from what I heard. Yeah, he was there. Not like I was there for him. He was there. But he got situations that don't like me. Like, he don't and I'm trying not to you know do what you do but his girl don't like me okay y 'all seen on the internet when she fought my baby mama and Kayla playing slap me and it was like we finna run into it that's when I was going through it so I mean, he never did nothing to make it better. I just keep fighting, man. I just keep getting better. I'm not... I'm telling you, the closer you get with God, the better you get. You just gotta get closer to God and the better you get.

33:37Ma, who you got in your life that you can call and get the truth from?

33:46That's a...

33:50that's that's I can call Vaughn I can call Sky and get the the absolute truth Sky I can call Vaughn I can call um my mama I can call my dad I can call Grace I can you want me to keep going? cause I can call T.D. Jakes I'm just glad you got some people, though. That's a blessing, bro. Yeah. Sometimes in them situations, people like, I ain't got nobody. And I'm just glad that ain't you. Yeah, no. I can call people. I can call around these shows. I can call. I mean, I have people to call. Okay. But will I call them? That's the question. That's the question. Will I call them? You got to make it on your own.

34:43You got to get it about that. You got to get it about them trenches. Yeah. sometimes you gotta just do it on your own. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you can't. Feel me? Yeah. How you make it this far? How did I make it this far? Yeah. You got some time, bro. Hey, bro. It's, man, short story, man, is complete surrender of my life. You know, I don't know if you know my full story. Maybe you did because you said you studied it, But and I've talked a lot more about it the last few years, you know what I'm saying? But I almost didn't make it, bro, like in real life, you know, before I ever touched any money.

35:27Like I was tripping. And. Man, God was coming. He was coming after me. Like I felt the pressure of him, like closing in my space. I wasn't going to be out in the streets long. I wasn't going to be no career criminal and all that kind of stuff. No career womanizer. He just wasn't going to allow me to do it. and I had the good thing and the bad thing for me at that time was I had people praying for me, bro. People that can actually get through to God. So I say bad because I thought it was bad at that time because I'm like, y 'all, all this praying y 'all doing, y 'all making my life hard right now because y 'all keep saying stuff.

36:03Virgis say stuff to me and it come true. My mama say stuff to me, it come true. It was really the best thing for me but at that time, Is that why you went S-O-G? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that came very early in my pro career. But, Ma, I was not going to make it if I didn't go with God. It's just not, it just wasn't, whatever's on my life, my particular life, he was not going to allow me to be that apart from him. I felt that deeply. So, the first part was me saying, man, I'm sorry for how I've been living. I'm sorry for everything that I did running from you. Man, I give you my life. that don't mean everything overnight it was a process but then he would bring somebody into my life and I'm like my pastor Virgil's Day I had a handful of men in my life my mother was doing good at that time so and it was just a community and then I started getting stronger and I could walk still needed them but walk on my own now and then it was just a process and I kept getting stronger from there bro but it started with surrender though it started with me giving up cause if I didn't do that bro and had any type of success, this was me with no name, no money.

37:15You give that guy a little bit of money and a little bit of fame, oh my goodness. Brother, all bad. So it was going to be his way or it wasn't going to happen? So yeah, bro, that's my story, brother. I was not going to be able to do it my way. That's just what it was. You know? But I'm going to tell you this, though. and I had so much more peace doing it his way. Don't mean it wasn't without challenges, you know, because when you openly speak about your faith like that, like I'm not just saying God, I'm saying Jesus. Oh, you're going to be a target. You're going to be a target. You're going to have people that dislike you and don't know why they're disliking you.

38:04Just something about him, I don't know what it is. So I didn't deal with a lot of that stuff throughout the course of my career, offline, in the business room. with networks, different things. And I'm not saying I didn't have good treatment too, but I'm saying you're going to run into stuff like that. So that stuff comes with bearing that name too. And, oh, you think he all that? Or how may he act like? All of that kind of stuff come with it. Because when you say you serve God and you really trying to serve him, you become less relatable to some people. Because you seem like you think you got it.

38:32Everything is perfect, but it's not. I'm not. I didn't come to God, brother, because I got it together. I came to God because I was broken. and I know what it feel like to drink and not be able to control it. I know what it feel like to pop pills. I know what it feel like to wake up and be like, I'm not, I can't face this day sober. I can't face my father's death that just happened sober. I can't face, I don't want to box. I don't want to do all this stuff. This is what I want to do right now. I know what that feeling feels like. So that's what had me running to him and keep running to him. Today, right now, is my auntie funeral.

39:11Sorry for your loss. No, that's fine. Thank you. And I'm here with you because somebody needs to hear. And at the time, I have to have somebody there to vent to. I want to have a drink right now. I want to drink for my aim. You know, and I don't need that. You know, I don't need none of that. Sometimes you just need a little peace. You know?

39:52You're stronger than a lot of people. What do you mean by that? I'm looking at you right now, and I can't believe you fought at 168. you cheated what you mean you cheated what you mean ain't no way I look big I look big I mean you're not boxing now so you don't have to like lose weight I don't look fat door no I don't look out of shape door no that's good I'm just checking you don't look out of shape sometimes you be thinking you look a certain way and then people gotta tell you you don't look that way you look I think I look alright but now you can see No, no, no. I'm asking a question. Listen, I said you don't look bad.

40:37What you want me to say? But I'm trying to understand what you mean about not making a weight. What you want me to say? I'm trying to understand. So you saying I look too big to be making 168. You wasn't, there's no way you was fighting at 175. I did. Now, I cannot make 175 right now, though. What you mean? If I had to make 75, it's not happening. I was 75 the other day Yeah that's dead I don't care how much It ain't happening You can't make 75? No You can't make heavyweight? Yeah heavyweight Well that's 200 plus Yeah I can do You can't make light heavyweight I can do cruiserweight If I cut off an arm I'll make 75 If I need both my arms I can't do that But you can't do 68 at all Never bro Ever But the last time I was 168 How is your style Compared to Why am I interviewing you Talk to me bro Let's talk Come on Just having a conversation I I I told y 'all Talk to me But I wanna see if you know Your stuff about me Talk to me Yes I do How is your style Compared to Benavidez Compared How is your style Go against Benavidez Like at 68 Or 75 Cause he had like Light heavyweight It's a hard style to beat Benavidez?

42:00Yeah, it's a hard start to beat because of the length, the reach, and the volume. I think— Hold on. But Kovalas was— Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's slightly different because he's not throwing as many punches. Heavier punches, but not as many. But he's super sharp, too. That's one thing that got me caught up in the first fight. I'm like, they talking about power, power, power. This boy's sharp. He hitting me. I'm like, how you hitting me? But Benavidez, you got to have great feet, great timing. you gotta have great distance range and then you gotta be you gotta have some bite down in you to get that respect so you gotta you gotta have that bite down too to get your respect and then you gotta go back to boxing but go ahead I like them glasses too like them um

42:47what about why why you never fought Canelo before I retired like the Canelo thing was never a conversation never a conversation Not even close in weight class. It was never a conversation. I think probably some people was talking about it, but it wasn't like real. It only became a conversation when he fought Kovalev and stopped Kovalev. That's the only time my name started getting lined up together. And I said this before, that's the only time since I retired that I was like leaning in like, hey, if you say my name, I'm picking up the phone. That was the only time in this eight-year period. And they asked him, who you want to fight after?

43:22I talked to my team, so I just left it alone. But people be like, Canelo ducked you, he ain't ducked you. What about Mayweather? Never at all. I'm saying, I know the weight difference, but it could have, at 54, it could have been possible because you was at 68. Never possible. You know how, you know Floyd's phone. Look at how, look how boxing is now, though. I know, but you know Floyd ain't doing that. Okay. Yeah, I wouldn't put that on Floyd either. While we talking about it, what you think about, When you see some of the stuff that's in the headlines right now with Floyd, and then you see the comeback, what's your thoughts on that?

44:00At his age, almost 50. Fighting Pacquiao. Nobody know what Floyd is doing. You know, do he believe in Jesus? His daughter, y 'all, y 'all need help? Do he raise his kids? He take care of the grandson, but, I mean, Floyd Mayweather is just, I mean, they say old taxes. I'm still inspired by him. You know, I'm still, I still think Floyd Mayweather is the greatest of all times. You know, I still, I don't have nothing bad to say about Floyd. Do you want to see him fight at 50? Would you prefer him to stay retired? George Foreman did. George Foreman did it. He did. George Foreman won another world title.

44:57He did. He did. What's old to y 'all? Like, you know, Tans Crawford just got a build at, what, 38? 38. Come on, man. What's old to y 'all? But Norah Hopkins did it at, what, 45? It's just whatever you believe in. I don't mind Floyd Mayweather doing what he's doing, but his lifestyle has changed. He's not. he that's we call him Floyd Mayweather he not Money Mayweather he not pretty boy Floyd he not you know what I'm saying you know it is what it is yeah I was Diego Corrales type of fan yeah that's my era he gonna go get it Diego gonna go get it yeah I was one of them type of fans I like Diego Corrales I like Mickey Ward you know I like them type of guys like you know like the flashy stuff is fine but I just keep my business off the internet I'm giving y 'all a little bit right now because that's just part of you know my life but I'm giving y 'all a little bit right now but I'm I don't care about your business yeah you know love your life yeah live your life yeah And do you?

46:21Do you? Don't. Everybody ain't got to be on that. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it is. I'm going to switch gears back to the pro career. 2016, man. You and Julian Williams. It's a lot of back and forth. I don't know if it was genuine bad blood, but it was tension for sure coming into the fight. Jamal and his brother. I know exactly who I am. You know what I mean? But he got to fight me now. Either fight me or vacate, Jamal. Stop being the girl and step up. Getting all that free money. Stop being a girl and step up and fight me, turkey. I'm sure Jamal Charlo is watching. We'll see what he has to say about that.

46:58Congratulations, J-Rod. He won't say nothing. Talk me through that fight, and what did the tension come from leading into that fight? I trained hard for Jody Williams' fight. He was an upcoming prospect, and I was a reigning defending champion. And one day we fought on the same card and he went to go sauna. Just so happened I went to the same sauna. And he told me that let's do what we got to do. And I was just like, he was with Breadman. And I'm just like, hey, bro, however it happened. And I fought hard. I trained hard. And I worked on the same combination every day. Every day leading up to the fight.

48:01And every day, like, I always worked on that conversation. and I caught his punches with my hand and delivered the same hand because there's no way he can get his hand back and that's history yeah that's probably one of the the cleanest coldest like uppercut counters like that because when I watched that fight leading up to you buzz him I think in the second round with a jab. But from that point until when the fight ended, y 'all really was just rumbling. Like, y 'all wasn't like toe-to-toe, but you would like go toe-to-toe and y 'all back up, regrouped, and y 'all would fight. It don't look like a lot of times that like when you, your defense is like, I'm not saying you don't have defense, but you don't mind getting hit to deliver your shot.

48:55That's what I noticed from you and your brother. Yes, I do. I mind getting hit. I don't want to get hit. I hear what you're saying, but I'm too busy watching what you're doing. No, I mean, I'm going to do my thing but I don't want to get hit either. You don't want to get hit? Never. Okay then. Never. What you mean I don't mind getting hit? I'm explaining. So you're not getting out the way. Yes, I am. You getting grazed like, all right, now I'm about to come back with mine. Just like that uppercut you hit him with. I blocked it. You did? None of that touched me. But y 'all was rumbling up into that point though.

49:26I just watched the fight again today. Y 'all was not rumbling. Y 'all was stopping. We was not rumbling though. What you consider rumble? You want to call Vlade, whatever your name is? That was rumble. That's rumble. I blocked both shots. What did he throw? What did he throw? A one-two. Okay. You just said you watched the fight. I did, but I got to give him clarity on that. Because it's a tough exchange. I didn't know if he led with it right. No, he threw a one-two. So I boom, boom. And then I was able to go under. But you got a punches mentality. You don't think boxing first, bro. That's what I do.

50:10Dang, bro. You look like you trying to knock somebody out, bro. You like knockout. No, I don't. I like that. Brother. I would sit there and box with you. And then you throw most of your shots. They be hard, my boy. You trying to knock something out. Yeah. Am I seeing this right? No, you're right. I ain't go for the knockout. You trying to go for the knockout? I do. But you can't call the jab a knockout. Nah. I knocked out a couple people with just the jab. So you can't call that a knockout. Nah, that's a jab. I had like four knockouts with just the jab. Yeah. That's that Texas Stranger Things.

50:45No, that's just... No, it's not. Oh, my God. I'm trying to get a better compliment. That's God giftability. Okay. Just boom. We'll take that. Yeah. We'll take that. Yeah. So after that fight, look, it's a statement fight. Business is booming. How was your life at that point, after the Julian Williams fight? I got married. Right after that, before that? Okay. I went to the car lot, and I told them that I wanted a Rolls Royce. They didn't believe me. So I went to the bank, and I went and got a whole bunch of money. I told them to give me the Rolls Royce. They gave it to me the same day. I went the next day I went put down on a condo I was living in in the nice I was already living good but I just wanted to buy like two or three condos I took my annual trip to Hawaii I always go to Maui and me and the kids all went to Hawaii life is just lifing it wasn't like a It wasn't like I did anything extravagant.

51:56That was a lot of extravagants you just named right there. Rolls Royces. They not believing you're going to get a stack of cash. It's not average people stuff. I wish somebody would have told me not to do that. Yeah. You never did that? What part? The Rolls Royce part? Yeah. You never just went out and got a whole bunch of cash and just do whatever you want to do? Why? This Andre Ward Yeah I'm still trying to be Andre You was on fight night I'm trying to be Andre Ward 20, 30, 40 years later Oh That's how I'm doing Feel me I'm not saying I ain't bought nice stuff I didn't bought nice stuff But I ain't did that What type of businessman Is Jamal Charlo I'm saying At the negotiating table You be giving in At the negotiating table Or you negotiate hard I negotiate hard Put your foot down Like I'm not going for that Yeah This the number

52:55I don't got to talk about it because I'm not the one who's speaking on it. Okay. Yeah, but I definitely get my consent, but I don't have to really talk about that. I got lawyers. Team getting it done. Yeah. I got all that kind of stuff like that. So, brother, you took, you know, we talked a little bit about it in the beginning, man, just going through life, dealing with the life stuff, and then we didn't see you for two years. Right? So... Then we see you against Jose Benavidez, which was dope. But I was happy to see you back, bro. That was cool. Like, we don't talk like that. You know what I'm saying?

53:29But, like, I'm watching everything. So it was dope when I seen you on the headline. I seen you come back. And you did come in six pounds overweight. Talk about that, though. I wasn't six. I was three. Three? Okay. Because they gave me the contract. And I was supposed to be making 163, 164. Yeah, yeah. But when I made the 163, 163, I wouldn't have went and did it. But when I did it, they said it was supposed to be at 160. So then that's why I went over three pounds. But I was like, this is what they told me. I still got those text messages in my phone right now. I never miss weight. I've never been unprofessional.

54:10Because that was the first time ever in your profession. Yeah, that was the first time ever in my professional career. I never miss weight. I would have made 160 if they would have said 160. but I didn't have to make it. But you look good for being off for two years, bro. I know. The two years is crazy. Yeah. I expect you to be more rusty. The two years is crazy. Yeah. I mean, three years is even more crazy. Three years is even more crazy. You know, that was the only fight that I actually went to my bedroom and watched them and just... Your opponent? Yeah, I don't watch my opponents. you? For sure.

54:50You watch your opponent? For sure. You watch like everything they do? But then what if you get a different style? It's possible. I need to see enough. Like I don't watch every single fight. I don't even watch a full fight. I just need to see the beginning of the fight, maybe the middle and then the end. Then I'm good. I'll put it down. Yeah. I don't really study like that. I let my coach study. Nah. He tell me what he looking at and what he doing and I just make my adjustments when I fight. The best champions are the best adjustment makers. So I make one of the best adjustments. I don't really I don't really like focus on that.

55:31Like I have to make the adjustment in the ring because I'm only going to be fighting by myself. So just make the adjustments. Well that's what I think about if I get a different style. Right? Like I need to know basically what you like to do. And then if you do something different I got to be able to make that adjustment. I trust myself to be able to make that adjustment. You feel me? but talk to me about this Canelo thing bro what? 2023 the opportunity comes for you to fight Canelo how did that opportunity initially come? He didn't have no fight he didn't have no opponent who coached? I wasn't in I wasn't in you gotta fight for you they said he wants you to fight now I wasn't in good health conditions I was going through a divorce got you so I had to I had to leave even come back and I was going through a little situation.

56:21So I was just like, maybe it's not the time because you want to be in perfect condition and perfect health whenever you step in that ring. And I was not in the right mood to even get up and go run. You just didn't have motivation. I just lost my kids, just got a divorce. It wasn't just the right time. Yeah. I called my brother, and I told him, let me tell you, you just got to go up and wait. You got to go to 68. That's what Big Shaw love. Yeah. I'm listening. He did. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it was a... Well, Brody, how hard was that, though? Or was it hard at all? It was hard. Yeah. It was hard.

57:15How long did it take you to finally say, I can't do it? It took a couple, maybe a month or two. Yeah. And I was just kind of like, at first I was going to try to do it, but I didn't want to go out there and embarrass myself and not be at my peak, you know? And I just didn't do it. I just said, it's okay. I don't got to be a macho man. And I just didn't do it. Took a lot to turn down that bag, too. For sure. A big bag. And I just, sometimes it's not all about the money. For sure. I'd rather my peace, I'd rather my happiness, and I'd rather be Jamal Sharla the way I want him to be Jamal Sharla. So I wasn't happy at the end.

58:18I respect it more. I respect it, too. And then you kept it in the family, though. I kept it in the family. I gave it to my will. Did your brother hesitate at all? He couldn't. Yeah. He couldn't. You know what I mean? Did you have concerns for him making that kind of jump against a dude like that?

58:37Yeah. Yeah? I just didn't know what to expect. You know? I've never really been a big fan of Canelo. By the way, he's an awesome, great champion, like top of the world. I've never been a person to study him. I watched him fight Kermit Cintron. I watched him fight some other fighters, and I thought he was outstanding. He fought Austin Trout. I fought Austin Trout. We fought some of the same fighters, but I didn't think that my brother would... I didn't know my brother's game plan because I didn't talk to my brother during that camp. In camp at all? Mm-mm. So I didn't know his game plan. Why not?

59:34Well, just didn't know his game plan. I mean, Coach Derrick was barely training him. I was going down to Dallas and training with Coach Derrick, too. Yeah. I didn't know his game plan. I didn't know what he possessed. Like, he had his girlfriend giving him instructions in the corner. He just wasn't focused to me. Yeah. He wasn't focused to me. But you fought not long after that against Benavidez, right? Yeah. Like several months after that? Yeah, like right out of there. But I was already focused. I was training with Roy Jones, come back, training with Ronnie. Like, I was in Pensacola. And then, I mean, yeah.

1:00:27How did you find the motivation several months later? You just got into a better place? Got into a better place. And just, I wanted my respect. So I went and got it. What is your identity, Marv? outside of boxing? Who is Jamal Charlo outside of boxing? Happy, fun, enjoyable, living life, just fly. I dress way better than you. Think so? I'm happier than you. They just got you paying for that high-end stuff that y 'all think look good. I'm not paying for this, y 'all.

1:01:09But I'm talking about identity, though. Oh, I'm just messing with you. Yeah, I'm talking about like, who are you outside? If you don't have boxing tied to your name? If I don't have boxing, I'm just... Jamal Charlo what? Jamal Charlo who? I'm just Jamal Charlo. That's it? You know, did Jamal D or just Charlo? I'm going to be me. Mm-hmm. I'm stiff about me.

1:01:34And just... Just a workaholic. Man, just want to grind. Want to go get it. Is it hard being a lion all the time? No. No. It's not? No. Because you can eat. You know what you come with. Like, y 'all know how to approach me. This Jamal Sharlo, okay, he like that. Like, it ain't no, I don't know, you know, second guessing nobody. But you feel like being a lion every day? No. Yeah. Hold on. Huh. Yeah. You feel like being the son of God? Yeah, but that's a little bit different identity than being a lion. No. A little bit. I ain't got to be like that either. I ain't got to be like that. Some days, look, I don't want to do that.

1:02:36Some days I don't want to be that. That's just, you know, some days I don't want to do that, you know? What? Be aligned? Just be, you know, some days you just don't want to be the face card, the front man, the guy that got to be strong all the time. The one that got to have the answers, the one that got to figure it out. That's not in my that's not in my bosom. I don't want to I'd rather be strong every day. I respect that. I'd rather be strong every day. I'd rather just tug it out. Yeah. I respect it. I got two more for you, bro. Go ahead. So what is your legacy? Or maybe a better question is, what do you want your legacy to be outside of boxing?

1:03:16Again, take boxing out of the equation. Okay, like you keep saying that, but I never wanted to be an undefeated fighter. Okay. I just want to be a hard worker. Okay. I don't have to be undefeated. It's too late, though. That's over with. You're that. You're him. I don't have to be, though. You already are. You done put pause on too many people, my boy. I didn't design it to be an undefeated fighter. I just want to be a hard worker. Got you. I just want to be great. Yeah, I got you. That's all? I respect that. I don't care for the undefeated chemistry, but what did Jamal Sharlo do next? What's next?

1:04:07I want to give to the next generation. Something that I never got. So, I don't know. Yeah.

1:04:20Just, you know, that's just part. I respect it, bro. I've had to face that reality, you know, the last eight years. You know? I talk to a good game. I don't want to do this too long. And all that stuff is true. When I say I talk to a good game, I don't mean it like I was, it wasn't real what I was saying. But when you got to really stand on that, like when I'm away from the sport, when I don't have the gym to go to now to to to let off some steam or to hide or to get away from life it gets real when I don't have that mission now to like so what you do man I I'm a lot of things bro how do you huh I just changed my mission so that same drive real estate business my youth past I'm a preacher my husband my father a businessman part owner of a business like it's a lot so it's the same it's the same we always remember we was talking about letting the guest speak when you ask me a question I got finished okay did you always been a preacher yeah but I'm saying like when I retired I became a minister and I became I had a platform for sure it just became a little bit more official you know a little bit more official but yeah same job just different mission that's what it is same job so the same person you're saying I just want to be great it's the same desire just a different mission It's not boxing.

1:05:40It can't be boxing forever. It cannot be. It should not be. Because then we're going to be trying to have a conversation. I'm like, Mar, what you, brother? And we don't want that for none of us. You know what I'm saying? So it's just same drive, different mission. I tell people all the time, I wish retirement on everybody, but I wish retirement on nobody. Look, it's a beautiful thing, but some days it gets spicy. my best day I'm like brother you setting a new tone you're doing what a lot of guys haven't done it's an example for the guys coming behind you on a bad day I'm like brother what did you do and why did you walk away at the time you did but I wouldn't regret it though you know it's a blessing man so bro I appreciate you taking the time big dog and um I got your line again bro like I'm gonna be tapping in with you appreciate it bro be tapping in with you bro pulling for you bro and I'm gonna always tell you the truth bro the love I don't care how you feel about it cause I can fight too you can't just like beat me up you can't just get mad and beat me up we're both 168 I don't like 200 I'm about 200 look man I'm high he high my face red he sweating look we done man I appreciate y 'all tapping in with us man you know this the hottest interview ever literally literally and figuratively we're going to have conversations and it's not always going to be neat and pretty we're going to talk about real life and it's a blessing that you know Mar would even talk about these things openly and publicly and it's not easy for me to ask some of these questions because they're heavy questions they're real stuff so we just appreciate y 'all tapping in and like I said we're going to go get some real AC because the AC is not working up in here it's another episode of the Art of War we appreciate y 'all

1:07:47Outro Music