Lady Ward: Teenage Pregnancy, Virg Saved Us & The 'I'm Done' Retirement Moment

27:33Man, I got to go to the gym. You know what I'm talking about? I told my friends after school, I got to go to the gym. Yeah. So you start to resent it. And there was no break. I didn't play multiple sports at that time. I played different sports in high school. But it wasn't like, oh, I'm doing football right now and I get a break. doing baseball that wasn't the case so I'm trying to juggle this thing but I'm in the streets man and and I'm just making bad decisions I'm running from God I just had a child and the Olympics are like like three years away and then Virg came to me he was like hey man you know do you do you love her talking about you and I was like yeah he was like do you do you want her to be with anybody else I was like no he was like do you want to be with anybody else I was like I don't think so and he was like if I get her to California will you stop is this gonna help I was like yeah it's gonna help you know I don't have to worry about her I don't have to worry about my son and verse made that happen man he brought you to to to Oakland California yeah and um so tell me how you felt just like you left your family you just had a baby and now you you in several states over you've never been here before well and then at that time too um i was pregnant with malachi we got a second child yeah got pregnant with you know mal and um it was scary 17 18 18 yeah about 17 yeah getting ready to turn 18 so it was lit yeah so it was a lot um it was scary had graduated from high school trying to figure out okay what's what's next i was in and out of my home because You know, like you remember, I was getting into a lot of trouble and stuff, too.

29:11Going to jail, all kinds of stupid decisions that I was making. Oh, yeah, she went to juvenile hall, yo. She went to juvenile hall. A couple times. I didn't did my stuff. Had a day here, day there, but she got it, you know.

29:31She's changed. Short rap sheet. She's changed. Yes, transformed. Yeah, she changed. That was then. But it was tough, right? Like, had the first baby, pregnant with the second one. And we were trying to figure it out. And I remember when you called me and you said, I want to bring you to California with me. I'm going to take care of you. And it was like, it was scary, you know, because it was like, okay, I'm supposed to leave everything here. Come down there. I knew I wanted to be with you more than anything. And you were like, I'm going to take care of you. We're going to figure this out. Did not know how.

30:06Yeah. But I was moving on faith. Because I remember I was saying, like, how? What are you going to do? You're like, I don't know. We're going to work it out. I'm going to figure out. Because I was getting a little money, too, from USA Boxing. Yeah. Because I was the number one fighter in the country. So you get a stipend. I'm on a national team. So I forgot what I was getting at that time. Maybe$3 ,000 a month or$15 ,000. Something like that. But back then, that was a whole lot of money. Yeah, for sure. And then you told me, I can come live with you and with Virgin Millie. And I kept thinking, oh, man, how's that going to be?

30:35Are they going to like me? You know, are we even going to get along? Like, how is this going to be? And so it was it was a little scary moving down. But I said I said, yes, let's let's do it. And came down here and got on Southwest and and came down here. And I mean, Virgin Millie, man, I'm just so grateful. I'm so grateful for them. Not just that they supported us and gave us a home with two kids, but just everything from a spiritual standpoint to the natural stuff. I mean, they have been such a blessing, you know, in our lives where we lacked parents at specific points in our lives. They just were there.

31:21They were there. and even early on in our relationship I mean I know that Verge was just so pivotal I mean even now when I think about Millie and Verge I'm just so grateful for them I mean Verge would sit me down at times and he would just be reading the Bible and saying you know hey look this is what a wife is supposed to be you know that's the first time I even heard about like Proverbs 31 One was from Birch. You'd be turning up. I was. I was turning up. Like I said. Truth is, we were turning up. I didn't have the best example, right? I didn't have the best example. Yeah. Like, you know, what a wife is supposed to be or how to deal with conflict, right?

32:00So we would just kind of argue and like, no, you're going to hear my point. You're going to hear my point. And it was like, who's going to give? Who's going to bend? And like I said, going back to being very strong-willed, you know, that was really tough early on. And it was such a blessing because I would think, man, how are Millie and Virge going to react to this? They're going to take his side. And so many times Virge would be like, he'd be on my side. Why are you always siding with her? Because I was right. And he was like, I'm not siding with her. But he's called me Pop. Pop, you got to look at it like this, baby.

32:32You got to look. And yeah, it takes a village. It really does, man. Like, it really, I don't know where we would have been without them. My mom, I think at that time, was still kind of struggling and getting herself together. My dad died, you know, in 2002, shortly after Dre Jr. was born. So I didn't have a lot, you know, I didn't have a lot of like examples, A, and then B, like somebody to sit me down. Yeah. That's why I don't never, even if I'm talking to somebody, a youngster or somebody that's, you know, whatever, I don't, I don't, I don't let sometimes the feeling like they may not be getting it.

33:06I don't let that get me off track. I'm gonna sow these seeds in your life. I'm gonna speak this over you and hopefully you're ready to receive it now You may be ready in a year. I don't know But they did that for us because we did not know how to I didn't know like we just we just had we had pressure We ate 17 18 years old and we got two kids Again, I'm trying to figure out this Olympic thing, but I'm still one foot in the streets one foot out now I got you here. I gave you my word that I was gonna take care of you Don't really fully know how and it was a lot, you know And we would. We would argue about just normal stuff, argue, fight about normal stuff.

33:38But we didn't have no plan. I know some people don't believe in the structure of the Bible, but that saved our life. And that sustained us because we love each other. But without the power of God and the help of God in our life, I don't think we would have made it. Absolutely. I don't think we would have made it. And some people say, oh, I don't give God credit for that. I'm giving him credit for that. And I'm still giving him credit for that because I'm not that good. Yeah. I didn't come out of, you know, I didn't I wasn't born morally. No, I'm not that good. Newsflash. If y 'all if there's no God in my life, y 'all going to be reading about Andre Ward on the bottom of the ESPN ticker a lot.

34:19Like he did what? Man, why he do that? Man, I was so stupid. It's just what it is. I can admit that because I know me before I met God. I knew me and this was a broke me with very little money and no name. And you give that person some name and some fame and some fortune. It ain't no telling. So we were trying to figure it out, man. But I thank God for Virgin Millie and specifically Virg would sit down, open up that one. This is what God said about this. Yeah. And he used to tell you, he was like, he said, you got to go take to the scripture where it talks about an ox treading on the with the grain.

34:57No, it was the one where the one that said much increase comes by the strength of an ox. And I still teach that to women today, you know, because oftentimes, you know, women are frustrated in their marriage. Like, man, I got to deal with this. I got to deal with that. I got to deal with all these things. You know, my husband isn't doing this or doing that. And I'm like, man, you can't you can't forget about this. There's a great increase that comes by the strength of the ox, you know. Yeah, you're going to have to deal with some stuff. It's a real thing, but deal with it the right way. But just don't disregard the fact that, man, hey, when I sit there and I say, man, is your husband a blessing?

35:40Well, yeah, yeah, he is. He is. Okay, what about this? What about that? Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's right. Okay. We can forget those things because we have to address something, you know, and there's a real issue here. will make the issue bigger than some of these other things. And it's like, no, that's not the way to handle it. We're going to get to the issue. We're going to deal with that. But, man, my perspective has to be, man, my husband is a blessing. My wife is a blessing. And we weren't married at that time, but we felt like at that time we were moving in that direction. Yeah. And, you know, he told you.

36:12He was like, man, you got to look at Joe like he's an ox. Yeah. And if he does his part and you do yours, he said, He going to put you in a position where you ain't never got to work a day in your life. You ain't going to never have to go get a job. You know what's funny about that? He said that to me and there was a part of me that was like, wow, really? OK, that's pretty cool. But then there was another part of me that's like, but I want to work, but I want to do stuff. You know, I have my whole life ahead of me. There's things that I want to do. So it was kind of this, you know, dichotomy that was kind of going on in my head where it was like, OK, that's great.

36:44But what about what I want to do? So, you know, over time you and I would talk and you would say, babe, listen, this is what this is the vision that I have for us. I'm going to go. I'm going to win a gold medal. I'm going to be a world champion. I made it sound so easy. I know he did. It was, you know, it was luxurious, you know, coming out of gold medal. Step one, step two, step three. I mean, I've been we've been drilling this since I've been 10 years old. Yeah. And I mean, that's what you told me. And you were saying, you know, but I need your support. Can you support my dream? And the other part was, you know, I don't want someone else raising our kids.

37:21And I felt the same way. I was like, you know what, you're right. Like, I don't want to put our kids in daycare and have them with babysitters and things like that. I mean, that's what I got growing up. I had to. We did some of that, but we did one of it like every single day. Yeah. You know, where someone else is just raising our kids. And, you know, thank God for people that are out there. There's amazing people. There's nannies. There's babysitters. Thank God for that because, you know, people have to go to work. They have to do what they have to do. And everyone doesn't have the opportunity to have a family member that could step in to help and things like that.

37:58And we didn't. We didn't have, you know, family or anyone there that could help out with the boys. We had some family. I mean, like full time for me to go and, you know. And so I just, you basically said, can you support my vision? And, you know, I gave you my yes. You know, I gave you and I gave the Lord really, you know, my yes. And it wasn't always easy because, you know, I kind of wrestled a little bit. And you remember that. And, you know, there were things that I wanted to do. Go to college. Yeah, I wanted to go to college. And, you know, there were a lot of things that I had envisioned for myself.

38:36But I think at the end of the day, when I gave you my yes, I really meant that. I really meant that. Yeah, man. And there's nothing wrong with, you know, a man pursuing his dreams and a woman pursuing his dreams simultaneously if that works for y 'all. And I've said this a lot, you know, that like you're the smartest person I know. Like when you put your mind to something, there's nothing that you can't do. So I know you could have been a lawyer. You could have been whatever you wanted to do. But it was just tricky with our situation because we're so young. We're living with two other people. Virg had a job at that time during the day.

39:15And then at night, he's a trainer. His wife, Millie, my godmother, she full-time job. We didn't have people that could help us. and we didn't have the money for a bunch of stuff at that time. We don't have the two kids, a different conversation. Yeah. Right? Like, I can pursue my dream, Olympics, and you can pursue your dream, whatever you want to do. It was just tricky from a monetary money standpoint and then just, like, just the help. We just didn't have it, man. So it wasn't that I was like, oh, you know, just support me and come up under me. No. I just think at that time it was, like, the right thing to do, you know, and it obviously worked out.

39:50But, you know, there's days where I'm like, man, I wonder, you know, was that the right thing? You know, because you could have done, you could have done anything. But I think, I think we did the right thing. Because even though you didn't get a job, like you're constantly working. People, people get that twisted about stay-at-home mamas. They think that like, oh, you just get to sit up and watch TV all day. It's like, man, we have people sometimes that say, well, what do you do? It's like everything. Like cook, clean, grocery store, bills. We're budgeting. We're making business decisions. Babe, what you think about this?

40:22Man, it's an opportunity. Negotiating contracts. Negotiating contracts. I mean, what are we not doing? And what are you not doing? It's a lot. But yeah, it was definitely, man, you definitely sacrificed a lot of your dreams to support my dream, for sure. And I'm grateful for it. And it worked out. But you could have did anything you wanted to do. But we stayed locked in, even though we struggled. We're still struggling trying to figure it out. But the thing that really got us over, I think, is we had the same belief system. we believed in Jesus Christ we believe we're Christians and you know we're struggling Christians but we trying we trying to figure it out yeah you know and you know I'm reading stuff about like man it's better to marry than to burn and I'm like boy I know we didn't already messed up but like I'm trying to live right I'm trying to do this thing right but we living in the same house yeah so I'll be like that's it we done we ain't doing nothing I'm sleeping upstairs you sleeping downstairs that last two three days brother and it's like oh God help me you know what I'm saying like because at this time we both are having a rebirth yeah like we knew about God but we but you know we wasn't living it yeah but then when we came got both got to California God started really dealing with me God started really like changing me and you know taking a desire to smoke and a drink and like the Olympics I started to love boxing again I started to get the vision like yo like these Olympics man it's close and you know I lost my dad in 2001 and 2002 excuse me and it devastated me yeah so it's like i was coming out of what i was dealing with and then boom got knocked back down it got probably as as bad as it ever was at that point in time i'm i'm i'm angry at god i'm i'm doing more drugs i don't even care no more but yeah i still got this family and god god man he just he just and my mother was doing good at that time and she was like witnessing to me like Dre you got to get right my sister Tasha was doing good at that time she blowing me up I'm like man I'm ducking my sister she like God got a plan for I'm like sis man like I ain't trying to hear today man but I needed to hear it yeah and we both start having like a rebirth with God right around the same time so now you know sometimes God uses scripture in the Bible where Jesus was telling his disciples like I have many things that I want to say to you, but you're not ready.

42:40He's not going to throw the book at you and be like, change everything. Sometimes it'll be incremental where he'll start highlighting certain areas. So he started highlighting the fact that we were not married at a certain point. And I'm like, oh, we got to figure this out. And the spirit was willing, but the flesh was weak. So we last two days, three days, and then we back fornicating. And Virgil's like, just get married. But I think because I didn't have a picture of a great marriage, I was scared. I want to do what God is telling me to do, but I'm, man, I don't know if I can. I don't know if we can.

43:23I don't know. But we ended up getting married on Wednesday Bible study at God's Way Church. We went to it that time. Pastor Calloway, man, he was like, y 'all come in my office. We're going to get this done tonight. Yeah, and I think we were kind of dressed like this. We were dressed as your brother. Ripped jeans and t-shirt and... We went in the back office, made that thing official. Boy, I was a deer in the headlights. Like, I was happy, but I was scared. Just didn't know, man. Like, it was complete, like, territory I didn't know nothing about. And I just gave my life back to God. So, like, you know, God sustaining you and giving you power to do what you can't do in your own strength, like, I was still trying to figure that out.

44:03Was you scared like I was scared? No. You wasn't scared? And, you know, you poker-faced that, too, because we talked about it. I got a good poker face. You know, later on we talked about that. And you were saying how you were scared. I was like, what? Scared. I didn't even know that you were scared at the time, you know. I'm driving home like, you happy, babe?

44:25But I think at the end of the day, we knew that we were doing the right thing. and we were, I think the most important part was that, like you said earlier, we were pushing in the same direction. Yeah. Because, you know, we talk about it all the time when you have split visions in a house or in a relationship, that's division. You know, you can't have one vision and then I got another vision. That's division. Yeah. And so even early on like that, we were just pushing in the same direction. But I feel like that, you know, getting married, you know having the two kids I think that actually like made me lock in even more you know and um because a lot of my olympic teammates and stuff some of them had kids but like I probably had the the biggest weight on me and the biggest pressure on me because I hadn't lost since I've been a young kid so that was like a winning streak that was going into the olympics but I had like real like family stuff like I'm 20 years old and they're like man you heck of old you got two kids and I'm like brother I I losing ain't an option for me because I know what you get if you win a gold medal.

45:29I think at that time it was like$25 ,000. But I know what happens when you turn pro, that money is different. Oh, before I get to the Olympics, when did you realize that I was really like that? Yeah, I think... So we were going to one of your amateur fights somewhere we drove. I don't remember if we were up maybe towards Benicia or somewhere in that direction. And I remember before we left the house, because I was living with Millie and Virg and you at the time, and I remember turning to Virg and saying, he's going to win, right? He's going to win. I'm thinking about what is my reaction going to be?

46:07If you lose, aw, better luck next time. What am I going to say? And Virg is like, he's got this. Complete confidence. Trust me, you're good. He's going to blow through this. He's going to do da-da-da-da-da-da. And then what I do. You did it. You know, and it was it was something about the way that you would talk to me and you still do even now. Right. There's just a mode that you kind of switch into when you say, hey, listen, and you're casting vision and saying this is the plan. And like when I hear that from you, I'm like, oh, OK, that's the direction. Because I mean, we've been doing this now for over.

46:53what is it 25 26 years so even then it was like listen this is what I'm gonna do here's the plan and it just I didn't really have anything but your word to go off of but I think it was something in your voice that had me fully persuaded like this is what's gonna happen because he said it you know faith is contagious you know just like fear is contagious and verge is a man of faith you know i'm saying like he i think that's something that's been been a been in his life for a long time he's also like almost he's prophetic in many ways he can see things up ahead you know and it's like that's just been drilled in me since i've been a kid and i was put in the work to make it happen i had my moments where i strayed and did my thing but like the goal never changed so for me like you know it's like when you fight or some other countries cubans russians like they know like it's gold medal or bust we win gold we win gold it's not even about well i hope i medal that's that's some americanized stuff that we talk about here them other countries like it's it's win or die it's it's it's have success and win and get respect or you're gonna be at the bottom of the food food food chain so i was the same way you know and virgin's faith got contagious on me and and then i learned that i was feeling what he was saying too and then i just ran with man and and it happened you know i found myself in the 2004 olympic games we had just went to war and you was trying to come yeah i was like nope because it was crazy like they would they would brief us like the olympic team like all right look we gotta have a secret service member you know the the chances of you know a worldwide you know threat to us is very high and we weren't popular at that time.

48:43I think they were even talking about like, that's when there was like anthrax. You can get anthrax in the mail. They were talking about bombings. They were talking about everything, man. So I'm like, but the way verse trained me was always isolate yourself. Lock in. Don't let family be a distraction. I know they want to come, but this is a vacation for them, so to speak, but this is work for you. So I just had that mindset, man. I'm like, man, I said, man, I feel bad, but y 'all can't come. You know, You weren't happy about that. No, that was that was tough. I wanted to be there. I wanted to support.

49:17I knew that this this was it. Like, this is what we had talked about, you know, for the last few years. And man, we're finally here and it was a big deal. And I wanted to be there for you and, you know, for you to see me, you know, in the crowd and, you know, to experience that. And so it was kind of tough, you know, but at the same time, I totally understood. You know, it was, you know, you're protecting me. Like, I don't know what to expect going over here. And I don't want to have to worry about you, you know, roaming around. Or is someone going to think that you're American and snatch you up or whatever?

49:55You know, plus we had the kids. And it was like, what do I do with the boys? And, you know, so all of that. And I seen my Olympic teammates. They would have family come. Like, we were in the village. And then on the off days, we would fight and have two days off. They would have family come. And they ripping and running in Greece. yeah giving up energy and as the tournament goes on that's what people don't know about the olympics like it's not just you fighting another fighter it's also it's an endurance it's a test of endurance because you're fighting a lot of pressure and then you have an you have an adrenaline dump where now you you exhausted but you still got to make weight you still got to train and stay sharp and then you're gonna fight again yeah and who can keep that up for that that week or two week period without falling off a cliff.

50:38And a lot of guys you saw fall off a cliff day two, day three, because they're still making weight, so they got to hold their weight. They can't really eat. They're working out to stay sharp but also to lose weight. And then family members, can we come out of that village? I've been wanting to see the Olympic Village my whole life. They get pastors to come in. I'm in my bed asleep. Bro been out for six hours in the heat in Athens, Greece. And then now he has to change clothes and he has to train. So that's the stuff that Virg is drilling in me. Like, baby, just commit to this. Yeah. And you won't be sorry.

51:12So it'd be tough, man. It's like you got to sacrifice, man. And, you know, so we had the fam was back home. Y 'all are watching on the news. Like, what were you thinking when, like, you seen me win? And, like, the whole world stood still to watch. I mean, it was amazing. It was exciting that, number one, that you actually are here. and you're doing everything that you said that you were going to do. But then to see you just knocking these dudes down like one at a time, like, oh, my gosh, he's in the next round. He's moving up. He's in the next round. I mean, it was pretty surreal watching it at home.

51:50But at the same time, it's an interesting feeling because, you know, in your mind, you're fully persuaded that this is going to happen, right? Like, because you said it, you know, like, this is the goal. This is what we're going to do. He's going to have that gold. But then you're watching it. It's just like this surreal moment. Like this is actually happening. Oh, my gosh. So, I mean, it was pretty awesome. I mean, seeing everything, you know, play out exactly what we had talked about. I'm heading home after I win a gold medal. And then, you know, I'm talking to some managers. But really, I'm talking to James Prince.

52:24You know, that's the manager I was locked in on at that time. And then my flight gets diverted from getting back to the Bay to Houston. and you're like, why are you going to Houston? I'm like, man, I'm going to just stay out there a couple days. You said, don't sign nothing. Don't sign nothing. And I had, you know, my business acumen and all that stuff. You know, I had good instincts, but I was still learning. I was like, if any contract comes across your table, I need to see it. I need to look at it. I was like, sure, I got you. We ain't not here to do that. Then I signed the contract. Signed the contract.

52:58Signed the contract when I was in Houston. What did you think about that? I was mad. I was mad. I was pretty mad. I held on for a couple days, though. Signed the contract and came home, and I think I read through some things afterwards because I remember I was saying, let me see the contract, let me see the contract. And he showed me, and I wasn't happy about the contract. so yeah it's just you know man that's a lesson I didn't have to learn the hard way but you know for me that changed everything in terms of like like growing up from a business standpoint you know and it wasn't like you know Jay is getting over and nothing like that but it's just you know in negotiations this party's gonna try to keep as much as as they can and give as little as possible and then you trying to keep as much as you can and give as little as possible you want to try to be fair but sometimes that fair is that's subjective yeah that's relative like you say all the time you don't get what's fair you get what you negotiate and i think i understood that too like really early on like man let's and i'm thankful for jay you know jay has been a blessing his family you know people around him so grateful for them however i think there's some things that could have been a little bit different.

54:27Yeah. You know, had you listened to me and not signed that first contract. Yeah, boy threw that cash on the bed. Man,

54:38he threw that stack. Boy, I said, ooh, I've never seen that much money in my life, much less in cash. But you learn, though, you know? Yeah. You learn, you learn. And me and him have had great conversations about that since then. We've talked about it on camera, off camera. And, you know, I learned a lot, man. I learned to trust you more. And I learned to, you know, do my homework more. I just grew up, you know. And I think from there, man, we both just became bulldogs. Yeah. About contracts, about negotiation. And just about, you know, just really understanding that, man, you know what? Yeah, you got a team and it's a team.

55:16But, like, in this boxing game, no matter who walks into the ring with me, everybody's walking down those steps. And I'm the only one left, me and this other person. Mm-hmm. And if I lose tonight, you guys go on and managing and promoting other people, which you should. But I have to there's a place where I have to understand that I need to get as much as I can. I need to secure and not just look at the number because a lot of time we just look at how much am I getting? No, no, no, no. It's all that other language. It's everything else. Right. It's the term. It's it's clauses in there. If you do this, this contract is voided.

55:48All of that stuff. I learned that through, you know, the early Jay situation and just, you know, just finding my way, man. I learned it. And I've also learned a lot of business from Jay, man. You know, me and Jay. I haven't had any issues throughout, you know, throughout my career. Only time we ever have any friction is around contract time, which is understandable. You know, it comes into territory. But, you know, so my how was the pro game different? When you see me fight these pro fights now, it's not for play. Head gear off, shirt off. Like it's a different ballgame. You got somebody in the crowd talking about your mama.

56:24You got somebody in the crowd talking about your wife. Like it's lit. You trying to fight and you hear all these different things. Alcohol is served. They want blood. What was that that, you know, that early scene like for you? Yeah, it was interesting. Just being a, you know, a fight like I watched fights growing up with my dad, but never thought that I would just be like thrust into that world. And it was interesting. You know, there were definitely moments of, you know, just hearing people shouting and he's going to get murdered in there. All this kind of stuff that people would say. Yeah. It's just like, man, OK.

56:58I think through that, I learned like the value of holding my peace. Right. Because I think sometimes people just want to fight. People want to be heard. People have a lot to say. And everyone's fighting for their opinion to be known and all of that. And I think I learned really early on the value of holding my peace. Like, I don't have to defend. I don't have to, you know, you're yelling in my ear behind me. Oh, yeah, your husband's going to, you know, or whatever. If they knew that, you know, you were my husband, I don't have to defend. I don't have to say anything. I can I can hold my peace because you're going to do all the talking right here in the ring.

57:41So at the end of the day, when your hand is raised, I could just. Yeah. OK. Yeah. What was that you were saying? And I kept you in that winner's circle too. That's right. That's right. Kept you in that winner's circle. That's right. It's a different world, you know, and it's, you know, like, we found our way, you know, like, like, how much are we going to show the people? And, you know, like, how our kids, are we going to let them go to the fights? So all this stuff you got to figure out. And we still young, 21, 22, 23, trying to figure out we got more money than we ever had. We got family drama.

58:11You know what I'm saying? Hey, can I, you know, I'm your uncle. Can I get, you know, all of that stuff. You're trying to figure that out. You're trying to be a good business man and woman. You're trying to raise your kids. You know, I'm a believer in a sport that's like, it ain't no rules. It's the wild, wild west. In fact, how are you going to be a Christian to be a boxer anyway? Like dealing with that. It was interesting. It was interesting just trying to mature in all these different areas. Like it wasn't like we had no kids. And it's like, man, we get to try to learn each other and grow together.

58:38And then we're going to have kids down the road. Like we had kids early. We got married early. Yeah. We had to figure it out. And I'm grateful that we weren't figuring it out alone. Like we had the Lord to lean into. And, you know, I could pray, Lord, give me wisdom with this. I don't know what to do. I mean, there were so many moments, too, where maybe a bad article or something would come out. And I'm like, who is this person? Oh, John, what's your name? Yeah, I just want to take on my keyboard and start, you know, and I'm like, okay, reel it in. Like, Lord, help me to forgive this person. They have no idea what they're talking about.

59:11And really, all this stuff is lies. This is crazy. You know, it was trial by fire. Right. We were just on the job. Boom. Here you go. Learn, figure it out. And I see people blowing it. Right. We see people all the time in the news. It's easy to blow it. Man, it's easy to blow it, just making wrong decisions. I mean, there's hundreds of little decisions that have to be made daily. And like you said, even with kids, how much exposure do we give our kids? And, you know, how much exposure do we allow, you know, like we want to protect our kids, right? And we don't want people just, you know, having access.

59:50Yeah, but also letting them see, you know, we're your regular average family, you know. We love our babies, and I'm at the school volunteering as much as possible in the classroom. And this is who we are, and this is what I love to do. You talked about earlier just not being in the media and not being out there. For the wrong reasons. Yeah, for the wrong reasons. I don't need my voice to be heard, and I don't need to be the person that is standing up on a pedestal with something to say. It's like, no, I want my life to speak. You know, I want, you know, everything that I do to be, like we talk about all the time, for an audience of one.

1:00:36And obviously, we're talking about the Lord in that, but then also for you. Like, if you're not pleased with me as a wife, as a mother, if my kids aren't pleased with, you know, me as a mom, you know, man, then I'm not doing a good job. Like I'm failing my family and I don't want that. Like I want to, people always talk about success, right? Like, oh yeah, I'm successful. You're not successful until you have successors, you know? And so that's always been really important, you know, for me personally is like my job here matters. It's important. Like I'm training this next generation, you know?

1:01:16And I'm so grateful for every opportunity that I've had with our own kids, with other people's kids. I mean, now being a youth pastor, getting to pour into the lives of other teenagers. A minister. Yeah, a minister and constantly being in the school system and, you know, juggling dates and stuff. Like, I got to go talk to the junior high kids soon. I'm so grateful for those things. like that's true success when you have successors behind you and that's important yeah talk to me about the ladies like the ladies like you know how you how you dealt with like me being around women you know people I work with you know and then just people in the streets you just I take a picture with your husband like and for me like I've always tried to you know make sure that I'm honoring God, but also honoring my wife with, you know, like how I'm moving, like what I'm doing, but then also optics.

1:02:21Like, you know, it's a scripture in the Bible that said don't even give the appearance of evil. And that's hard sometimes, you know, because you're in the world and stuff is moving fast. You know, there's times where, you know, I done bent out and about and somebody stick their head in and take a picture real quick. And I'm like, bruh, like, dude, like, you know, and stuff happens. So it's like I got to trust God with those moments. But I'm just saying, like, really my heart is to always honor you. So, like, if I'm taking a picture, I'm not going to be hugged up with some female. You know, like, a lot of times, like, if I'm taking a picture with somebody, it's like I may not even be touching their back like that.

1:02:57Because I just I'd be trying to stay away from all that stuff. Just A, out of respect for you. And then B, I ain't got time for the drama. You know, but from your perspective, just seeing me navigate throughout this whole thing. Like, how's it been for you? I mean, I think that's it. What you said is honor, you know, and I think that's what has always come across to me is that you honor and you respect me. And not just me, but first and foremost, the Lord. You know, you have such a great honor and respect for the Lord that I want to do what's right. You know, I know that there's going to be fans.

1:03:34There's going to be people, male and female, that come across. and I want to represent God, but I also want to represent my wife, my family well, and that's always come across to me. So I don't think it's ever been an issue for me. I mean, there's times where there's some women in different locations we are that's just kind of like, oh, okay. But I've watched you just navigate so well with things like that. You're not going to take a picture with some naked chick or - I'll slide on the dick. Like, you've had women, oh, can you sign right here? You're like, absolutely not. And you've done that whether I'm there or whether I'm not, you know, because you'll come home and you'll tell me, man, this girl tried to get me to sign here and do this.

1:04:21And I think the transparency and openness, you know, is really big, too. Because I think sometimes people don't have that kind of relationship where they're open and they're talking about things like that. But you would always come back and say, man, this happened or that happened or, man, I got this random message on IG and blah, blah, blah, blah. This person is blocked, you know. And I think just that openness and that truth, I've never wavered in like my faith, my doubt or anything like that. You ain't getting nobody no snake eye ever? I mean, probably because I think I remember one time. I've seen a couple.

1:04:57Yeah. I think. In Vegas. Yeah, we were in Vegas one time. No, it was, we were walking and some girl. Because you could hear people talking, I'm finna go meet Andre Ward or something, but they don't know you my wife. You done had some of them too. Yeah, some of those moments are like, there was a girl that was like, oh, that's my man right there. That's my man. I was like, no, honey, that's my man, you know. You said that? Yeah. You know, I don't let it be known, you know, with something like, like that, right? What did she do? She was like, oh, you got it. You got it. Yeah, I know I got it, you know.

1:05:30so it is what it is but you know most of the time um with things like that you just you handle it i'll be trying man like you know again it's trial trial by fire learning on the job i learned that from my pastor napoleon kaufman is that like you know i like if you creeping as a man you may not appreciate this but if you're trying to honor the woman that you're walking with that's next to you then you may appreciate this but like he was like man with stuff like that if anything like that I mean I told my wife immediately and I just think it's a good it's a good system for us because it's like you know I had a crazy message the other day on Instagram and it's like and I'm thankful to God God really be shielding me from a lot of stuff because I know things could be a lot worse and I think he protects me from a lot of it where I don't have to deal with a lot of stuff then people know kind of how I move and what I stand on so I think that's part of it but then And every now and again, something get through.

1:06:25But I will show you, like, man, look at this. This is crazy. Look what she said. Look what she trying to do. And I think that's good for us. Fellas, I'm dropping some nuggets. That's good for us, like, to build our relationship where you feel like, well, I ain't got to really, you know. Because you don't be checking my phone and stuff. No. And I be like, she don't never want to check my phone. You don't be interested. You know, you don't be interested. But, like, I try to have that dialogue and I try to be open. And I try to, you know, it's tough out there, man. Like, and some women may get offended by this.

1:07:00And I've seen women, like, speak about this and be like, oh, that's too much. Or you think every woman is trying to trap you. But it's a lot going on in the world. So it's like, for me, I try to have certain things that I do. And I've been doing this since I've been young. And if you feel a way, hey, ain't nothing I can do about that. Because in my business and in my life, an accusation is an L. nobody sticks around to see how it worked out six months down the road after your name been drugged through the mud and you fighting for to clear your name or to prove whatever nobody sticks around the first headline is this happened yeah right and for many people even an accusation is like yep i knew i knew he wasn't that clean you know people will believe what they believe so like i have certain things that i do like and i learned this from the baseball player alba pool pool host, he said, I don't get on the elevator with a woman by myself.

1:07:54Yeah. Right? So when he said that, I was like, dang, that's interesting. So when I go into an elevator, my friends be laughing at me. First thing I do is I look up. It's your camera. Right? And I hope it's on. But if I'm going to be on that elevator with that woman by myself, I don't know what you on, sis. I don't know you. But that's the point. I don't know you. I'm not assuming that you looking at me, want nothing from me, or going to try to do anything or say anything but i like what we built is too valuable to to be lazy about it and for some people i've had people in my life i ain't gonna say no name early on they thought that was like come on man really you're doing all of that but have since later down the road was like i get it now yeah and this was before the me too movement and all that and this ain't got nothing to do with that this is just me trying to keep myself in the best position to win represent god but also to honor So it's like stuff like that or like, yeah, I just try to move the way that I feel I need to move.

1:08:51And however people feel about it, they feel about it. Because it ain't going to be your name drug through the mud. It's going to be mine. So I got to do what I feel I need to do. But it's just certain things like that or certain other things I do that I just feel like, nah, I need to get up out of here. Or nah, let me bring my wife over here. Hey, babe, come here. I just try to move like that, man. And that's not for everybody. but you know it's been for us and I you know I've always tried to like just make sure that you you feel comfortable whether I'm in your presence or away from your presence you know cause you know I'm gonna bring something crazy up and I'm gonna bring it up we're gonna talk about it no that's always been felt over the years and it's a blessing it's a blessing like you said I don't I don't have to check your phone like I don't feel the need to check your phone you know a woman's gonna know a woman is gonna know if something's up you know it just is what it is that's why y 'all keep get caught because you don't respect the instincts and the intuition that these women have.

1:09:48Bro, listen, you start tripping, they gonna know. So don't even do it. Just don't do it because they gonna know. You have a phone in the attic. A third phone in the attic. Not a second phone but a third phone in the attic. It's in the attic. All of a sudden you come home, that phone right there on the table. Your wife gonna sniff it out. What is this? I don't know. I was up in the attic. I just felt like I needed to go in there. There's a phone up there. It was turned off. Straight up. So just don't do it, bro. You never put me in that kind of position. Just don't do it. I've always felt honest.

1:10:21We was younger, though, before we got married. You know, we both was tripping, you know, here and there. But even then, it'd be like, I'm going to leave that alone. I'll leave that alone. But just say the instincts are real. I'm going to just say that. I'm going to say that. Training camp. Started off four-week camps early on, you know, five-week camps. and then you get into a championship level fight. So like from 2008, 2009 to the rest of my career, we're doing eight-week camp, seven, eight-week camp. Like how was that for you? Training camp was tough. How was I in training camp? You were not great.

1:10:57You ain't like me, huh? You were not great. I had good days, though. You had some good days. You had some good days. But most of the time, it was tough, right? Because I cried every time you left. You know, when the day came. and you were getting ready to pack up everything and you were driving off to go stay, you know, in an apartment or whatever. I mean, I cried every single, till the very last fight. I cried every day. Sorry, not every day, that first day. Yeah. Every single camp. And, you know, I would feel just that heaviness and that depression. And, you know, it was tough because I couldn't even sit in it.

1:11:38I couldn't, I had little ones depending on me to, you know, what's for dinner? What's, you know, okay, we've got basketball or football practice, soccer practice, you know, piano lessons or whatever was going on where I just wanted to just sit in a dark room and just, oh, my husband is gone. Training camp, you know. And I just, I think it goes back to what I was saying, just that training as a kid to just get up and go. Come on, pull yourself together. and get it done. Yeah. So it would be, you know, tough. And that may be like a pizza night that night, right? For the kids. I'm not cooking. You know, we're going to go to sports and all the stuff we have to do.

1:12:21Here's some pizza. Okay, everybody go. Y 'all are good? All right, I'm going over here. And, you know, I kept thinking, oh, the next time it'll get easier. But it never did. It never did. It was very hard. I tried to keep you in the loop as much as possible when you're away for those eight weeks. You know, hey, this is what happened with Dre Jr. This is what's going on with Amira, you know, things like that. But I also knew when to kind of let you be like, OK, I don't need to bring you into that. I'll just kind of handle this and deal with that. I'll let you know, you know, up the road. This is what happened.

1:13:03because I knew that, man, if you weren't on your way to training, getting up in the morning, pushing a car, doing some kind of crazy something, you know, then you're resting because you're getting ready for the next training session. And the last thing you wanted to hear is, well, the boys were fighting and this happened and that happened. It's like, no, I got it. Let me just handle this, deal with that. And I'll loop you in up the road, you know. but it was hard because you know it was like my best friend is gone and I want to tell you you know man I was at the store today and this happened and that happened but it's some days I would be on it and other days I'd be on it and it just wasn't like time for that like I can't tell you what happened at the store and you know Costco had this sale or whatever was going on you know that wasn't important right now so those moments were really really tough and I had to be you know kind of a single parent you know for that Yeah, for that period of time.

1:13:59And so it's interesting because nowadays, you know, I have, you know, moms come up to me and they'll ask me about that. Like, man, how in the world did you do that? Like, my husband leaves for a weekend and I'm losing it, you know, with the kids. And I'm like, oh, I can speak to that. I can lend to that. And it's a tremendous blessing to be able to, you know, help other people because it is tough. It's tough. Your life kind of gets shaken up for that period of time. And you're trying to, you know, be mom and dad and manage. And especially when you're talking about, you know, you've got teenage boys going through puberty.

1:14:41And like, you know how boys can be too with, you know, they love their mamas. But it's also like, oh, dad's not here. I can kind of test the waters a little bit. And it's like, I've got to be, you know, a little bit tougher, you know, to like, no, that's not what we're doing. That's not what we we're not getting away with nothing, you know. And so, you know, the boys will they have those stories where it's like, man, I can't believe mom left me at school that time. Like I had to let them know. No, I mean business, you know. Oh, y 'all want to play around when I come up to the school and you're you know, I got to go find you with your friends.

1:15:16No, I'm leaving. You're going to walk home. You're going to figure it out, you know. And it's a blessing because, you know, it shaped them to who they are. But, I mean, when you would come home from training camp, it was just like you come right on in and, okay, dad's home. Here we go. And it was an adjustment like we talked about. You ain't always like it. Yeah. And I'm fixing myself like, hey, why that's like that? Nah, we not doing that. Hey, why they going to bed so early? They can stay up a little bit later. You like, hey, they been going to bed. Yeah, I have my system. Like this for the last two months.

1:15:47And you coming in here and being, you want a fun dad, letting him stay up another hour. Yeah. Training camp was the hardest thing for me. Not the physical work. I'm a grinder. I'm a work. That's one thing. But it was that and then being away from y 'all. To me, being in training camp, it was like a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I knew. The encouraging thing was I knew I was supposed to be in training camp. I'm like, Lord, you got to help me. If you want me to do this, you got to help me. You got to take care of my family. I need you to give me the strength. Give my wife the strength. that was like one of my biggest prayers.

1:16:15He was like, Lord, just give it a strength. Because the other part of it too was that it wasn't always like a convenient time. Like we chose like, oh, okay, you know, March, there's nothing really happening in the family. You'll go for eight weeks. It would just be like, hey, here's a fight date. Make it work. And a lot of those dates were in November. So, you know, holidays or it's like the end of November. So it's like you're gone. How many Thanksgivings were you not home? And it was hard. It was very, very hard. And I thank God for, you know, family, friends, church family, people that, you know, were very supportive during those times.

1:16:54But it was it was rough. You know, it was like, man, do I cook and do the whole Thanksgiving thing? I don't have my other half here. This is very difficult. But wanting to maintain certain things for the kids. And man, it was it was rough. It was rough. I don't miss trying again. And people don't see that part, right? They just see lights, camera, action. They see, oh, you winning and getting your hand raised, but they don't see the journey. They don't understand the process. And I think that's just a lesson for, you know, everyone out there. Man, you can see a person on a pedestal. That's amazing.

1:17:30Man, hand clap, all those things. But man, understand there was a journey to get to that pedestal. There was a process that that person had to go through. And a lot of times we'll never know. We'll never know the, you know, the underlying things that had to take place to get that person to that point. And, yeah, people just didn't see that part of the journey. They're not going to see that part. Yeah. The training camp was the worst because I was away from y 'all. The training part, getting together with my guys, I love that. But, yeah, that was the toughest part for me. What about the surgeries and stuff?

1:18:05I done had injuries through wear and tear. I had a, you know, my big knee injury, came from playing basketball. For me, it's difficult, you know, but it helped me grow up. I started realizing that, man, ain't nobody here at 3 in the morning, 4 in the morning when we head into the surgery center but you. Yeah. Right? Nobody's here when I wake up from surgery but you. Yeah. There's nobody else. I really had to grow up with that, with that, and I really learned to take care of my body, to try to keep myself out of, you know, the surgery room. But, you know, also grind it really hard, you know what I'm saying?

1:18:36And it's like, I just, I work my body. So you do that 15, 20 years, you're going to have stuff come up. But like, you know, how are you dealing with that stuff? You know, being in surgery, being off six months, eight months, whatever it was. Yeah. I mean, that was, you know, another one of those things. And physical therapy. Yeah. It was another one of those things that was pretty difficult at times, trying to, you know, trying to work through it. But trying to be supportive and be there for you and help you up the stairs or in the bed or whatever needed to happen, just taking care of you was such, you know, it was a privilege, right?

1:19:17And an honor. And like, you're my husband and I want like you to be at your best. And it was so hard seeing some of those moments like the shoulder surgery or even the knee surgeries. I mean, they were pretty scary. Like, wait a minute, is this career ending? What's going to happen? Like, what are we going to do? And, you know, I think, like you said, not really having a big support system. You know, people, they're like, hey, do you guys need any meals? We had love in the church. They're praying. They, you know, dropping off meals. We definitely had that. But I'm, like, moment to moment, like, day to day.

1:19:54You know, my mom helped out. You know, Millie would help out. Like, we had some help. But, you know, like them two, three in the mornings, it's just you. Yeah. It's just you. So it wasn't always easy. Yeah. And like you said, even the physical therapy. I mean, I remember, you know, you're going to San Francisco early. We would drop, you know, kids off at school and then take the drive out there. And I usually had one of the little ones in tow and just coming to support, just trying to be there for you every step of the way, you know, and wanting you to get back to a place of health. But then also, like, if I'm down, you're there to pick me up.

1:20:37Right. Like we can't both be like struggling and be knocked down and like, oh, what are we going to do? And, you know, so those were moments where you were knocked down. And it's like I knew that I had to be there to help to pick you up. Right. Right. And it was just important, not just for your career, whether you come back and continue on this path of success. But for you as a man, you know, this is this is my reasonable service as a wife. Like, I want to support you in every way. So, you know, I didn't want you going to PT alone, you know, unless I absolutely could not be there because of kids or something like that.

1:21:20I didn't want you, you know, going to surgery just with, you know, oh, I'm just going to have someone just drop me off. And no, I want to be there. You know, I want my face to be the face that you see when you wake up from surgery. You know, I want to make sure these doctors are doing everything right that they're supposed to be doing. I wanted to be there to be praying over you while you're in surgery. You know, just all of those things were really important for me. Yeah. Man, but God, you know, the cool thing about our faith, man, and the blessing about our faith is, man, God, like, saw us through everything.

1:21:54There was lessons that we learned, things that, you know, I gained certain things through these different seasons. You gain certain things, and it really just strengthened our faith and taught us a lot, and it's like, man, something else we overcame, something else we got through, and I'm super grateful for that, you know. And then we had, like, a two-year period with the lawsuit. That was a whole thing. But then, you know, God rewards us coming out of that season with this Roc Nation situation. You know, we negotiated hard with that situation. That was a blessing, man. And that really was the table being set for me to make my last run before, you know, my career was, you know, getting ready to be over.

1:22:32What, to having 15? So, like, what, three fights? Two years and some change. So, you know, when we fought Kobula the first time, obviously I'm keeping you in the loop on the knee stuff and all of that kind of stuff. How was you feeling going into that fight, given all the trouble I had in training camp with my knee? Yeah. I mean, I was pretty confident that we were going to get in there. I was confident. You said pretty confident. I was confident. Define pretty confident. I mean, there's a part of you for sure that you have to battle, right? The what ifs, you know, that's always there. No matter what it is that we're going to take on in life, you know, the what ifs are always swirling around in your mind.

1:23:18But the confidence was there that, man, you know what? This is the date. This is what you signed up to do. This is what you're going to do. You know, God is with you. Man, God's been faithful. He's going to continue to be faithful. You know, I saw how hard you worked, how hard you pushed, all of those things. It was a beautiful balance between faith and works. Right. And so I knew that no matter what, you're going to be victorious, you know, but there's all this stuff going on. Right. All the stuff in the media. Oh, he killed a man. All the, you know, all these things were real things. but just having that faith and having that confidence that man you're going to have your hand raised at the end of the day what about when I got knocked down though I think I was angry I think people see like people talk about that clip where they showed my face I mean in my mind I was like you better get up right now you better get up you better knock him out you gonna win this fight I'm gonna be in the ring you know you didn't think it was over No, no, no, absolutely not.

1:24:25So I knew that you were going to get up. And then when you looked at me and you winked and let me know, like, you're good. I'm like, okay, okay, we good, we good. Come on, let's go, let's go. You know, handle business. I took care of that business. Yeah. Going into that last fight, we had been talking about the retirement thing for a long time. You know, I go through tough periods in the sport. I'm like, man, I'm, you know, tired of this, man. I just want to be, I just want to be done. and for for me like being done was like like maintaining my autonomy and my independence ability i don't need to do this you know and you would always be like baby i don't know i hear you but like you know i don't think it's time and even going through the lawsuit like i wrote up a retirement speech i'm like listen man i feel like what i'm fighting for is the right thing you know these these these arbitrations uh with the with the california state athletic commission is not going my way.

1:25:14I don't agree with this. I don't think I'm getting a fair shot. The way that I can maintain my independence is to walk away. You can't stop me from doing that. You know? And I let you see it and you was like, ah, good speech. I don't think that's, it ain't time. You know? Then I let Pastor read, I let Pastor, he's like, ah, it ain't time. You know? And, um, but, Covalet one ended. I didn't go to the gym for three months. I'm like, man, these people ain't never happy. I just dealt with a lot in this training camp. I fought the dude y 'all said nobody wanted to fight. Got off the canvas, did it the way I did it, beat him, and y 'all still got something to say?

1:25:50I was like, I think I'm done. Then boom, we ended up taking the second fight. But me and you knew that was it, though. I told that to Virg for the first time today. He didn't know that. I've never told him that, that I knew that that was going to be my last fight. I didn't want him to change anything in training. I didn't want him to. I wanted the opportunity to back out of the situation if I changed my mind, too. but we knew that was going to be the last fight. Yeah, you know, we had talked about it for a little while. Like you said, you didn't want to make it like a permanent thing just in case, and I remember after the second fight with Kovalev, you were like, you know what, let me just go to the gym.

1:26:32Let me just go to the gym. Let me just kind of shake out a little bit, go do what I got to do. That phone started ringing. Yeah, with opportunities. They was finna pay that payola. or they was getting ready to, everybody was trying to re-up? Yeah. So it's in the morning. I'm getting ready to take the kids to school. And then all of a sudden it's like, you're on the floor in our room. And I'm like, what is going on? And you're like, I don't want to go to the gym, man. I just, I can't do it. I just don't want to take any more punches. I don't want to give any more punches. And I'm just looking like, whoa, okay.

1:27:05Are you going to be okay? Because I got to go take these kids to school. I'll be back. I remember I was a little salty because I'm like, bro, I'm out here spilling my guts. And you're like, yeah, we got to talk later. I got to take the kisses. I remember feeling like, bro, what? I'm like, maybe you should just go ahead and go to the gym and kind of get it all out there. And then we'll talk about this later. I don't want to go to the gym ever again. And I came home and then we started having that conversation. And, you know, you were so serious. Like, you know what? I'm done. I don't want to take any more punches.

1:27:39I don't want to give any more punches. And I had never really heard you talk like that before. And I was like, I think that's it. I was like, babe, I think you're done. That's the first time you ever agreed with that. Yeah. And when I said that, I feel like it just kind of did something in you. You were like. It released me. Yeah. You were like, man, that's it. My wife is in agreement. Like, that's it. I'm done. I'm done. Let me start making phone calls. I'm done. I started making a phone call that night. Yeah. That night. I didn't sleep on it or nothing. I just started making phone calls that night.

1:28:08Yeah. Yeah. And you were happy. I saw you just kind of like light up like, you know what, I did what I wanted to do in this sport. I mean, there were other things that you could have done and could have pursued, but for what? For what? You mean in the ring? Yeah, in the ring. But it's like, for what? It's so sad and so tragic to see some of these ex-fighters and the condition that they're in. And they walk into these rooms just to get a little bit of this. But their health is bad. They can't put two sentences together. I mean, it's just devastating. People see it and they whisper about it. Yeah.

1:28:52I've been in a room. Oh, you don't look too good. Man, he's punchy. Hey, champ, can I get a picture? Yeah. But they whisper. Man, and it just breaks my heart to see that. And I knew, like, that's not going to be our testimony. That's not going to be our story. So, you know, I always knew that we were going to know when it was time for you to walk away from the sport. Like, hey, appreciate y 'all. Did everything I came here to do. You know, set my family up in a great position. You know, and I'm done. That's it. You know, I care about my life beyond boxing, you know, more than a fighter. You know, I'm a husband.

1:29:29I'm a dad. You know, I'm a minister. I'm a pastor. All those things. Yeah. Right. Because retirement has been a journey in and of itself. Right. There's so many times where, you know, you're an athlete through and through. So it's like you could be retired for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. there's still that itch there. Like, man, I still got it, man. I still feel it, right? And so that's been its own battle. But I've seen you just really battle that well, you know, and have those moments of, man, maybe I could come back just for one more. You know, nah, nah, man. I just, I don't want to do it.

1:30:08Man, I'm good. I'm good. And I know that's tough. That's not just a fighter thing. That's for all athletes. You know, it's tough, man, when it's time to to step away from a sport that you've dedicated your entire life to, you know, that your livelihood is wrapped up into. It's hard to to walk away from that, you know, but that's why it's so important that your identity is not in that thing, because at some point you're going to have to walk away. At some point you're going to have to give that up. And that goes from even a school teacher. right it's like my identity can't just be in i'm a school teacher it's like you've got to have something else you know you're gonna walk away from that too at some point what do you have to fall back on you know who are you really and um i think that's why we see you know how hard how difficult it is for a lot of these athletes because it's like on that one day man and maybe that's a good title what do i do now i got the title i ain't gonna say it though but yeah i'm gonna write a book on that one day because people need to hear that you know it is hard people self-destruct in retirement not just a lot of athletes but just people in general they self-destruct because they're looking for the dopamine they're looking for the high they're looking for identity they look they're looking for purpose and when that thing is gone whatever it is you be ceo i'm not a ceo no more i'm just bob yeah i'm saying they struggle with that right and people hang on to titles it's tough right it's all about oh i'm cfo of this i'm ceo of this i'm tied to this i'm tied to that.

1:31:42And it's like, you know, I'm so grateful for that. Just in my own life too, personally, that, you know, I'm not tied to anything. You know, I'm not, I don't have this title that, and I think, like you said, when people go. You're one of them wear many hats. Yeah, I do. I like to wear all my hats. But, you know, it's like people come and they're like, what do you do? It's like, I'm just me, man. I'm just I'm just living my life. I don't have to have a title, a description, something I tell, you know, oh, I do this all day long. Like, man, sometimes I'm a minister. Sometimes I'm just mommy. Sometimes I'm lawyer because I'm working through a certain contract right now.

1:32:26Well, today I'm designer, you know, and remodeling a full home. And, you know, tomorrow I'll be horse whisperer dealing with my horses. So it's like it is what it is. Yeah, but I appreciate, you know, our pastors, Pastor Napoleon and Pastor Nicole, because they did it. They basically lived our life several years before we did. So we went to that church, you know, pastor being, you know, in the NFL, playing for the Raiders for six years and then boom, just retiring. and like he was the blueprint for me. Yeah. You know, and then seeing how Patrick Nicole, his wife, handled it, you were able to pull from her and glean from her, man.

1:33:03So I just want to shout them out, just giving us a picture, but then also being there when we need it, like when I got questions, you know. Like he was the one that basically talked me into taking that second fight because I was like, man, Patrick, I'm done, man. And I thought he was going to agree with me. And he was like, yeah. He said, you'll be good. You'll be fine whether you do another one or not. But he said, I think you got one more left in you. And I remember being like, what, man? Like, I came in here to get some agreement, brother, so I could be done. He was like, you could be done, but you know.

1:33:34And I'm happy he told me that. So I was able to, even though they, you know, people gonna always talk, but like, you know, I was able to shut the noise down about the first fight, get another check, you know what I mean? And really see me and my legacy, man. So you gotta have people. Came a Hall of Famer. Yeah, I don't know your Hall of Famer with or without the second fight, but. She said become a Hall of Famer. I mean, I'm saying, like, that solidified it. She said you became a Hall of Famer with that fight. I mean, that solidified it. That thing was locked after the Super 6. I don't care what y 'all say.

1:34:06It was locked after the Super 6. People think they want to marry a professional athlete. This is my last one. My mindset is a little different. I be locked in, you know, and I got a certain type of drive, and it doesn't stop just because you retired. like how's it been married to me and some of my ways just being locked in and like oh we gotta do it like this man and the intensity and stuff like that you know well first of all i didn't have dreams and aspirations to be married to a professional athlete so i'll put that out there but i definitely got blessed um bonus so it's interesting when you know to hear you say that like people are like oh you know not everybody but that's people for sure like that's kind of on the hunt.

1:34:50Or they thinking it could be a good idea. Yeah. But yeah, there is a lot that comes with it. I mean, you do everything with a spirit of excellence. Hello. First of all. I try to, for real. And it's really great, especially when it comes to like your sport, right? Because it allows you to achieve things where most people won't. But it's really annoying in other areas where it's like, you know what? Listen, this doesn't have to be perfect. and you have this mindset of, well, why not? Why can't it be? It's like, dude, because I said it's not. That's why. We're just going to put this together. It's going to be like this.

1:35:29Okay, that's it. And it could be tough because you're a person that's constantly tinkering with things. And it's like, you know what? You have to have the right perspective You know, when that is the person that you're with that's constantly, no, I mean, this is good, but I'm going to tinker with it because I want it to be great. And I think sometimes people don't always value that. And it can cause conflict and it can cause, you know, yeah, just resentment and certain things instead of seeing it from a different perspective. Like, OK, you're trying to make me great. That's what it is. So, you know, yeah, I'm doing this.

1:36:12I'm taking care of the kids. I'm doing certain things, whatever it is. And then you come tinkering with it. But it's like, okay, you're trying to make me great. You're not nitpicky, you know, or telling me, hey, this needs to change. Even though I spent maybe hours doing something and it's like, no, I think it should kind of go like this. It's like the perspective has to be, there you go again, trying to make me great, you know, and it's a blessing. We balance each other out. yeah and i've grown a lot throughout the years because you know like you have a spirit of excellence too you just go about your spirit excellence a different way you're a little bit more chill i'm more intense with mine and if we do this marriage thing right this relationship thing right we'll know when the other person has got the answer like you know what right now i need to be less of me and more her and then right now you nah you got to come over here because i got the answer yeah when we do when we doing it right man yeah you know but you know yeah I don't know if you was just like me yeah might be rough might be rough might be rough but yeah man we here man we still going strong still going strong y 'all let us know man I don't see them views go up man go crazy in the comment section it's a whole extended interview man and you know we got a lot more content we got a lot more stuff we can talk about we've been locked in for over two decades quarter century total time between being married and being in a relationship and uh we got some stuff man we could talk about man so we appreciate y 'all appreciate you taking time out your busy schedule yeah and uh letting these cameras be all in your house and um man until next time that's the art award the best accomplishment we've had as a couple i think really is just trying to raise these kids up man and raise these babies you know because this these are be these gonna be the ones that's going to take care of us.

1:38:03The best things that we can do beyond business, building anything, is how we raise these kids. Yeah. One of the great accomplishments as well is just our marriage. You know, giving them an example, you know, that, man, you can do this. It is harder to push through and to say, man, you know what? What do we need to do to work through this situation? You know? and at the end of the day, if I'm busy scratching your back and you're busy scratching my back, man, no one is lacking. It's a powerful thing, man. I appreciate your time, sis. Thank you for having me. We got to go. We got things to do. Peace.

1:38:44That's the Art of War.

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