Matt Barnes: The Racist Hit on His Life, Kobe’s Last Promise & the Road Back to God

24:57And they had a dude named Ontario Smith at Dante Starwood. They both went to the NFL and had some NFL careers. Like they were the all-black school and we were the good white school. But for every time we played in my school, we'd get scared. But I would still go out there. But they would double-team me. They put Dante on me and Ontario over the top. And you can ask them, they're around still. I would still get two, three, four touchdowns. And both those guys went to the NFL. So football was my first sport. You know, I led the nation in touchdowns. I was an All-American, was recruited for football.

25:24But as I just started kind of getting a little bit older and just understanding, okay, what do I want to do? Where's the longevity at? I didn't know if being 6 '7", 6 '8", was going to work in the NFL, because this is back when they were still hitting. They weren't protecting receivers back then. You know what I mean? So I was just like, is there longevity here or is there a basketball? So, you know, ultimately I chose basketball, but I had to work a lot harder at basketball to make it. Yeah, really? You made the decision or did somebody recruit you? No, I was recruited to play both. I'm saying the coach at the high school.

25:54Did they say, man, come on out here? No, it was, you know, my freshman year I didn't play football, but I went out my sophomore year, and I want to say I had like 18 touchdowns that year and got called up to varsity, and I just knew like, oh, you know what I mean? This is what it is. So it was something I enjoyed. And again, I feel like, and like you said, we don't hear today about a lot of multi-athlete because everything is so kind of like, this is what you do, it's year-round now. But I felt like playing football, basketball, baseball and track all kind of helped me hone into what ended up being my career.

26:25That's proven. Like they tell, you know, now now what they're telling, you know, parents, which we already knew just just by way of doing it, is that they don't have your kids in one sport, even though people have their kids in one sport, because that's when the injuries come. Repetitive movements. They don't learn how to do anything else. So it's like they may be solid in their sport, but you let them go venture out and do something else and then come back to the sport physically better and just overall better. So Adele Campo, man, your sister had a situation where it was some real extreme racism.

26:53You got involved as big bro and it went left. What happened with that situation? She was a sophomore my senior year and there was just a little kid that was either her grade or the grade above her that just kept harassing her. And I guess one day my sister got in. He was harassing her already, but then my sister got into it with his homegirl. And they were about to fight and then the dude pushed her and called her a nigger and spit on her. And then she just came and found me and I had an open fourth pier. So I was about to go actually go home and smoke. But she caught me right then and she was crying to me with her homegirls.

27:25And then the dude just happened to be walking by. So, you know, we tangled up a little bit. I beat it out of him and we get taken to the principal's office. And my sister literally still has kind of some of the spit in her hair and I get caught in there. And to me, this is what blew me away, but also completely turned me off of my high school was, I was breaking all Dusty Baker's records and football and basketball and everything. I was like, probably the biggest athlete to come out of that school. And the one time I'm just like, you know, one time I needed the school, they didn't believe me. Like, nah, this kid's dad's lawyer.

28:00He wasn't raised this way. So I'm just like, I'm three months from going to UCLA. You think I'm just going to beat this kid up for no reason? You don't see my sister here crying with me. So after that, I was off him, but I ended up getting suspended for a whole week. And during the suspension they just came and vandalized the school like burned down a bathroom swastikas everywhere a mannequin hanging from the big oak tree with my football jersey on it died nigger so it was just to this day if you go back there if you look in certain areas you can see swastikas carved into the cement same neighborhood same school same school the same school yeah like it's it was it was up um made national attention you know the naacp came down there but they had put a they had actually put a hit out on me.

28:43And a story that's gonna flip your lid is my cousin, who was or is, I think like Italian and Indian from my mom's side, ended up being one of the biggest skinheads out there. And he had went to prison for killing somebody. So he had hit my mom, but keep in mind, this kid has spent Christmases with us and holidays because it was my mom's older brother's son. He called my mom and said like, hey, there's a green light on Matthew's head. and it already got back to the prison. So we actually had to move and we had the NAACP was like 24-hour security for us for like a good two months. How did y 'all connect with them?

29:21NAACP, they heard about it. They reached out to y 'all? Yeah, they heard about it and came up to sack. Bro, that's some old school racism. Like that's old school racism. The N-word, you know, swastikas, you know, something hanging from it. Like that's that old school. That's that deep, deep hate. Yeah. That's crazy, man. You know, as I was reading your story and kind of getting up to speed, like is that pocket, is that area known for that? Or is it just that high school? I mean, there was a lot of, it was a cool thing to like roll with Confederate flags. But we're talking my high school years are like 94 to 98.

30:00So it was cool for them. There was a lot of cowboys out there, a lot of white boys. and they had the big trucks and they'd have Confederate flags hanging from them. So again, up to that point in high school, I faced it in elementary school, but I hadn't really had no other racism until I got to high school. And we would go to some high schools. I remember the school Casa, Casa Robles. It was a straight cow town, Orangeville, California. And they would hold bananas up and call me a monkey during the game. And if I'm lying, I'm flying. Me and my dad almost fought like six kids from that school after the game.

30:30It was crazy. It's in the paper somewhere. If someone go find the Sacramento Bee archives, it's in there. So I just faced a lot coming up. And again, from third grade, it was always we're not turning the other cheek. Like we're going to get them. So keep in mind, so I'm a junior or senior in high school. I'm 17 or 18. So my dad's probably mid-30s, maybe early 40s. And we were, me and him were squared up back to back until like the police really came and intervened. Like we were about to scrap like five or six kids. So it just was what it was. That's interesting that like, you know, Pops had his struggles.

31:00And like you said, he was there, not there. but he did have your back. At 1 ,000%. And you know what I learned after with my dad, you know, when I lost my mom in 2007, and I feel like from that is when I kind of gained my dad. So again, my dad was always there, but he was out providing. He was doing whatever he had to do in work and in the streets to make sure we were good. So again, he was there, but his presence wasn't as there as I wished it would have been. But that's the one thing, like I said earlier, Like, he loved his kids. You know what I mean? Loved the s*** of my mom. So no matter what, he was always going to be there when it came down to it.

31:39Man, I asked Stephen A. Smith this the other day, man. You know, he was talking about his father and stuff like that. I said, man, did you see any of that or learn anything about why your father was like that through your grandfather, great-grandfather? Did you learn anything else about your father? He never actually ever told me. He actually opened up and broke down to my sister one day and just told me like the levels his mom used to do to him because he he was one of the youngest and his dad left so she kept you know kept the dad away his whole life literally until my dad was 35 was the first time he met his dad I was there and then he died like six months later he looked just they looked like twins so I learned through my sister telling me that just what kind of abuse from like sleeping on the floor eating dog food to getting whooped and burned and all I'm just like, God damn.

32:26So he never really knew how to show it. You know what I mean? But until, you know, unfortunately, my mom passed and he never felt comfortable enough to open up. So we started having discussions about it. He had discussions with my sister. And then he obviously he knew my sister told me. So that's when I kind of offered him counseling. Like, hey, dad, I'm going through counseling now. What do you think of it? And you know, what was Craig Dre was I was. maybe right when i was retired 37 38 and i was still kind of scared to ask my dad like dad i think you need to you know what i mean to kind of tell him although i'm a man myself like i still don't i still don't know you know the right way to approach a situation like that because he's always just been like a monster and a provider and a protector for us so i'm just here i am at my my ripe age still kind of hesitant about you know offering my dad like you know if you want to get help, you know, I'll take care of it.

33:17And surprisingly, he wrote back. He's like, thank you. You know, you don't know how much this means to me. I didn't really know you cared like that, but I'll actually, I will. I will do it. I will find somebody. So it was kind of like a dope kind of like father, son, like kind of, you know, coming, you know, coming to the Lord type situation for us. So it was, you know, it was, it was cool. How was pops with your sons? Great. He's a great Papa. I mean, he's got mother nine grandsons and one granddaughter. So he got what I what I love the best about my dad is even when my homeboys kind of meet my dad unless you know me from back in the day People like your dad used to be like really like because he's so cool now He'd like to smoke his weed and drink his little to carry his little wine and Always mowing his lawn and building it was they just like they don't understand the dude I grew up with but now but he's a great Grandpa and all the kids love him and he's really good with them So I love it from a standpoint that I feel like, not that he missed, but he did kind of miss with me and my brother and my sister.

34:16So he gets a chance to do it as a grandfather. It's like that with my mother, too, man. You know, I love my mama, man, because, you know, as I got older, I understood the depths of, you know, the generational addiction. And, you know, even when I was, you know, in the streets smoking, using drugs, pills and alcohol for my short stint, you see how strong it is. It's a strong, strong. You're not yourself. It's a strong pool. You're not yourself when you're on it. And I went messing with the stuff she was messing with. So I can only imagine. But I love that lady because, man, she kept fighting. And whatever she missed in my life, man, she's that to my babies.

34:53She's granny, you know? So, you know, you live, man, you learn, you grow. And I think, you know, we learn to give our parents, man, some grace. Got to. Because what your dad came up and the stuff, my mother came up, they wasn't talking about counseling. Most of the time they weren't having family meetings. They're not talking through stuff. No. They're just dealing with it. Yeah. And they're just getting older, but the stuff is still there. And learning how to parent on the fly, too. You know what I mean? There ain't no real rule book to this. And obviously, financial situations always kind of play a role in it.

35:22You know what I mean? So just making ends meet and trying to survive themselves. And also, I got kids I got to provide for, too. Man, straight up. After the situation that happened with your sister, what was UCLA's response to that? Surprisingly, they were good with it. They weren't tripping. Really? They weren't tripping. They kind of found out what it was. We explained what it was. Obviously, we had to explain what happened. But I think they saw, you know, what had happened in my school and how the NAACP got involved and all that kind of s***. I just realized what I wasn't out looking for trouble.

35:51I was just responding to it. So really, it wasn't really a blip. They wasn't tripping. They still accept me with open arms. Where did y 'all go when you left that neighborhood? Probably like 15 minutes away, just to another neighborhood. I finished up my senior year, and then I never was really out. Maybe I had like a year and a half stint in SAC, two year stint in SAC when I was in the pros. But most of the time, I mean, I made L.A. full time home after that. What was that like from you never really leaving home like that going to UCLA? Crazy, bro. UCLA's a big school. It's crazy. It's a lot going on.

36:19A lot. And my freshman year, 1998, was an NBA lockout. So we're having all the stars come to our games, too. So I'm kind of tripping like, oh, this is what L.A. is like. And we're, you know, UCLA basketball. So we're VIP to parties and situations and premieres and all kinds of stuff. It was a whole new world. And it really didn't care. I'm a chameleon. You know what I mean? And I thank, obviously, my upbringing from knowing how to be around white people and sophisticated people and being around the streets. You know what I mean? So I was able to just kind of, okay, this is what L.A. is like. I'm going to blend in.

36:50I'm going to be cool, stay out the way and learn and have fun. But how does a young kid survive a UCLA or a USC if there's like a star player, scholarship player? It's a lot going on. Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, not to make it sound like dire, but I feel like I had been surviving. I had survived up to that point, you know what I mean? And now here's an opportunity to kind of change my future. So there really wasn't no. So I was someone who was, I'll hang out and drink with you. I'll hang out and smoke with you. But I always knew what the goal was. You know, I have some of the homies that got caught too much up in the life of what L.A.

37:26was about and kind of washed out, you know what I mean? So I just knew, like, yeah, I'm going to hang with you, but I know where I come from, where I've been, and what the goal is. You weren't too overwhelmed by it? Nah. Yeah. So you stayed at UCLA four years. Yep. What year did you come out? 02. So you were 02. You were the 46th pick, drafted by the Memphis Grizzlies, but then immediately traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Just getting drafted, what was that moment like for you and the fam? It was cool, but I was also embarrassed to be drafted that late, to be honest with you. Yeah. I was embarrassed to be drafted all day because I felt like I was better than that, but it just kind of was what it was.

38:04So there wasn't really an exhale. You know, obviously family's excited, friends are excited, but it's time to go to work. And unfortunately, I really didn't get a chance to really show my shit. Like I thought, funny enough is I think Gino's in here. Gino was out there when I got drafted to Cleveland because he was friends with Ricky Davis, who was one of the young stars on the team. And right hand of God, I went out there and played well, bro. Shot the ball well, rebounded well, did what I was supposed to do. and all of a sudden got cut like after two weeks. I'm just like, damn. And so from there, it's like, what's next?

38:36And luckily, I want to say the G League, it was the D League back then, but the G League was in its second year. So I ended up going to the G League and Fayetteville, North Carolina, bro. Crazy. Oh, crazy. You talk about a culture shock coming to LA going to Fayetteville was nuts. But again, it just kind of got me on my grind, bro. Like I just, and it was never an arrogance. It was just a confidence knowing myself. Like I got a lot to work on this game, but I know that I'm better than this level of the game. And we were, we were staying in nasty hotels and terrible travel when making no bread.

39:11So it was just like, he got me hungry. It really got me on that grind. And it just made me appreciate everything more. Cause I think some people think you get drafted. Okay, I'm a millionaire now. Like it's, there's so much, many more layers to that. And I just think the fact that I got drafted and cut right away, like really like now I wake up You got a lot more work to do. Never got a grind. No, I've never seen it coming I definitely didn't see it come when you're playing against some dudes you wasn't like minutes. This a lot It's not it was it was just a challenge You mean like I said, I definitely had to work on because in college I you know my coach movie play me at the four like coming into high school I was like on the wing at a you know point forward type He put me at a powerful because we had such a talented team, but I could play any position So when I came in the NBA, there wasn't stretch fours that are my size like there is now.

39:56Like I was a three, period. Like power forwards were 6 '11", like Chris Weber and Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. And the centers were Shaq and Alonzo Mourning and these dudes. And the threes were, you know, the position I had to play. So I had to kind of relearn that. So I knew I had work to do, but I just knew that I could do it if I would have had the opportunity. Unfortunately, I just didn't get the opportunity with Cleveland. So I just got on my grind, played well in the G League, and then was able to find my way to the league. And I think it was 04, you got your first taste of real action with the Clippers, and then you ended up signing with Sacramento Kings, the hometown team.

40:28That was a short stint, but what was that like being a setback? It was a mistake, to be honest with you, Dre, because when I was at UCLA, this is the Lakers and Kings in their heyday, when they got cheated and all that kind of shit. And the Lakers were the Lakers, and Kobe and Shaq were dominating. So I grew up being a Laker fan, but obviously the Kings grew on me from second, and C. Webb was the big homie. So every summer I go home and he was staying sack and work and I was training with him. He put his arm around me, gave me some bread, just kind of started teaching me life on and off the court.

40:58And it was super dope. So but I had an opportunity to sign a two year deal with the Clippers for the minimum. But just to be able to go back to a team for two years is what I should have took. Because you learn in this game to not turn down the guarantee. But I stayed in sack all summer and worked out and Rick Adam and came down and seen me like, hey, what are you about to do? And I just told him, I was like, I don't really know, coach. He's like, well, you want to come to training camp? So it wasn't even a guarantee. I just got invited to training camp and ended up making the team. But then, unfortunately, that first season, I get traded with Webb to Philly.

41:29So it was a short stint in sack. But again, I got a lot of game from guys like Bobby Jackson taught me how to work hard. Webb was like the big brother to me. Adelman was a great coach in mine. So I got early on how to see how to play in space and concepts and play out of the pinch post and move around. So I really stoked up a lot of game in that short amount of time. But then I went to Philly and like sat on the bench for two years. So that kind of almost puts me in a position now once I leave Philly to like, I don't really have no game tape. You know what I mean? Like I don't really have nothing to show nobody.

42:02So it kind of put me in a predicament where I could have almost been out the league before my career even started. Where you at with your confidence right now? Because you go from high school to college. It's down. They're telling you, oh, yeah. It's down until one day I remember telling myself, man, I was like, if you don't believe in yourself, how is someone else going to? And that was it was it was a random day. And I was in Philly. I wasn't getting a chance to play. I didn't know why. And I just didn't get no way. But I was just down, you know. But one day I just like woke up. I'm just like, bro, you got to believe in yourself.

42:35And I was just like, I hired Chris Weber, shooting coach, started putting in the work before, after practice, any off day. just started shooting the ball and then that's when me actually me and Mo Cheeks bumped heads because I was putting in extra work after practice one day it was like two hours after practice nobody was there left and he comes back in the gym and he starts laughing and he says like I don't know why you're shooting he's like you're not gonna get to do that here and kind of laughed and walked away I'm like what I said this in my head I just kept shooting and then like a week week and a half later we're in practice and I remember I was treating practice like game so this is a young inguidala this is kyle corver lou williams is there like they got some some some young talent in there but um i kind of felt like i still should have got an opportunity i just didn't get no opportunity so in practice i'm going hard you know hoping to just kind of show a little bit to get a little bit of burn and i remember i took a shot and he stopped practice and blew his whistle yeah what i tell you you don't shoot here and that's not what you're in and just kind of and i just lost it and i chased after him i think i think it was like c webb or Rodney Rogers or Samuel Dellenbert, someone grabbed me.

43:41And luckily I didn't get to him. And then I just kind of went back, kind of cooled down and just kept working. Never really got a chance to play. But the dope thing was the next season, that following summer is where I was in SAC just training and Baron Davis hits me up out the blue. The day of like, hey bro, we're about to play some pickup down here like at 10 or 11 in the Bay, if you're at the worst, so if you're around. brushed my teeth took a shower got on the road got there played played really well and again similar to Adam and Don Nelson comes down that day he's like hey I just saw you play where you going to camp I was like I don't know coach and at this time I'm working out football too in the summertime because my my agent had lined some NFL tryouts out for me so I could I didn't really know again I had no game film I got there are people gonna me or not so I was training football and basketball this particular summer I was ready to make that jump so I'm I'm training both these that summer.

44:31That's 06-07. Is that 06-07? Yeah, that season. Yeah, so I'm training both that summer and Nelly invites me to camp. They said he had 18 dudes on the roster, three invites, like three partial guarantees. I beat all them dudes out and ended up making the roster and went from kind of like the 11th, 10th, 11th man to the 6th man and then by the end of the season starting. But I say all that to say though, when Philly came to town, Mo Cheeks came back to the bay and I told Nelly leading up to this game I'm just like I kind of gave him like the cliff notes of how he just dog out of me I was like coaches let me go tonight and he's just like yeah as long you don't get in foul trouble Matt I'm good with it so I end up going out there and I hit my first shot and it's my that was lucky he said that man you can ask any you guys ask anybody on the other team I kind of look at him and kind of just shook my head and then I hit another shot and then I looked at him and I didn't say nothing yet and then by the time I hit and I want to say someone got to check me on this I want to say I had 25 points I think I hit six threes and after I started going I started I started oh yeah maybe seven I was so disrespectful to him that game calling him all kind of during the game the crazy part about it Dre is their bench was laughing their trainers laughing because they all knew how he used to dog me so the finally I finally got my first chance to kind of show you like you you're a less rock and it was it was really against him so yeah i thought like 20 20 like 25 points i think and yeah six or seven threes but it was kind of like that vindication of just like man like you dog me yeah you like you dog me for so long and even when i do a way to be disrespectful to me and you're lucky all i'm doing is talking to you but what is that though man it's like if you a coach man it's like just busterism because that's why he's that's why he's always he's And you know what hurt me more than anything is I respect the guy.

46:23Like I was a fan of Mo Cheeks. You know, what he did with the Sixers and, you know, with those teams he had over there, the way he ran his teams. And I was a fan. And then when I got a chance to meet him, I was just like, oh, this is. You know what I mean? So it, and to me, it's why he was never as good as he was as a player and probably as a basketball mind, as good as a basketball mind he was, because he could never take that. He was never serious enough. I remember one time, and I could probably tell the story now because we're both older, but I remember Allen Iverson told him in the locker room one time in D.C.

46:56He said, just because you wear the mother suit don't make you a coach. I said, oh, yeah, I was like, yeah, get him, Chuck. Get him, Chuck. You know what I mean? So he was just like, dudes kind of saw, like, we see through you. You know what I mean? No matter how good, like, the way you treat people is, like, we can feel that type of energy. And a coach should never be on that kind of time. You know what I mean? So it was just kind of weak on his part, but it is what it is. Man, your game really, really went to another level under Don Nelson. Why, though? The first coach that really gave me a chance and believed in me.

47:26You know, he told me just like, hey, you know, I know you can shoot. Like, don't be afraid to shoot here. I'm like, what? What? Okay. And I want to say I was the first plus. So there was some weird stat they brought up that season where up to that point, like my third season I probably hit like 10 or 12 threes my whole career because I just wasn't necessarily, I remember whether I was ready for it or known for it or allowed to do it. but I just wasn't really doing it. And my first season under him, I hit over 100. So like that kind of jumped, but it was just, it was really just him believing me and allowing me to just be me.

47:55And he allowed me to be like a versatile guard forward where I would be able to handle the ball and make plays. I'd be able to shoot. You know, as long as I played hard, he would kind of allow me just to play the game. And he really kind of just opened the door for me to kind of show the rest of the league what I can do. And then, you know, I was off. But that's the we believe year, right? What was that year like? Crazy. Crazy, because we weren't a very good team. But I started playing better, and it made Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy expendable. And right before the trade deadline, they go out and get stacked in Al Harrington.

48:30And it kind of just changed. It gave us a little life. Although Barron was hurt at the time, when we got them, it took us a little bit to get going. But I remember this one trip to Detroit, went into Detroit, and this is the Detroit team that won the championship. shit we went in there smacked Ben Wallace rip Chauncey Tayshawn yeah all them dudes and we went in there and smacked them and just on the plane we were just feeling like yo we can make a run if you need to so we end up winning like 16 or 17 out of like 21 or 22 games it comes down to the last game of the season and the Clippers control their destiny and they lose at home and we ended up winning in Portland and shit next thing you know we're in the playoffs and um Don Nelson had an old riff with Mark Cuban in the Mavs.

49:16So Nelly was treating this mother f***ing like the world championship. We were so ready for this series, bro. And we really believed we could beat them. And for the first time, Nelly put small forwards on Dirk. Because this is Dirk, MVP Dirk, cooking Dirk. Dirk was a killer. He was always a mismatch for bigger guys. They couldn't stay with him. So for the first time, me and Jack guarded him. And then we knew every time he spanned us in the double. and we had dirt just frazzled the entire way. And we went in there and won game one in Dallas and the series was over because we had too much confidence.

49:50We had a lot of dudes that would fight in the club, smoking, drinking, and still go on there hooping. So we wasn't intimidated. I don't know how y 'all do that, bro. We tried to, like, we really, it was funny. I talked to Stackhouse a little bit about it, but I seen Josh Howard at the Top 100 camp. Both our kids were at it. And we had actually, we sat down to lunch and kind of talked about it. I was like, y 'all try to punk because then me and Stack was so, him and Stackhouse was so mad that like the rest of the dudes let it happen. But it was dope. But then, you know, end up losing in the second round.

50:19And then the very beginning of the next season, when I say like November 1st of that next season, I find out my mom is sick with four cancers, all in stage four, and then she dies 26 days later. So she died, diagnosed the first, died at 27. So like in a month, I lose my best friend and it's just like a cloud. I was lost, you know what I mean? So that whole season was a wash. I don't really remember it. But what I do remember is, although Nelly opened the door for me, he also shut it there. And I still kind of, I don't feel the way anymore. I kind of, I'm over that part. But I remember, so I remember coming to the end of that season, I had a small time agent.

50:57And everyone's telling me, oh, you need a bigger agent. You're about to get paid. These motherfuckers on TNT talking about, oh, he's going to get in that$30 million range. So I was like, damn, maybe I need to. So biggest mistake fire my small-time agent get Dan Fagan rest in peace But I wasn't really with Dan after what he did to me. Um, I get a bigger agent I'm thinking I'm supposed to get I'm here in 30 30 to 35 I go on vacation and come back and dance as he gave the money to other people But Dan was trying to give me more money than they're willing to give me and they just got tired of it Ended up going a different direction.

51:32It was a conversation about getting that number. Yeah So I miss out on a nice payday. Long story short, I end up coming back to the Golden State situation. And Nelly wanted to give me a three-year,$12 million deal at the time. But this was when the guys were getting like five years for$35. So like seven a year. I was thinking, okay, I'm going to get something close, five, six. So I was just like, and again, this is probably a f*** up on my part. I'm just like, nah, if you don't mind, I'd rather prove myself one more year. So let's do. So I got like a one-year,$4.5 million deal. After that season, I'm just like coming off the average like 13 in the playoffs, play really well, really just didn't stand a chance to play.

52:13So let me come back to Golden State where he's letting me rock one more year and then try to get that 30 or 40 million. But then that next year is when my mom died. So it was just like kind of started me all over. And then but Nelly kind of held it against me. And once I got older, I realized it because he's he's thinking like I gave you a chance to play here. you played well and then you have the nerve to turn down a multi-year deal that i'm offering you you know i mean so again some of that was my fault you know don't not turning down guaranteed money but i just felt like i can get more if i would give me one more season where my mom doesn't die and i'm playing like i'm playing i'm gonna get more money um but he so i remember one day when i finally started feeling better like she died november probably like around january or february I'm back practicing my energy's back I'm feeling good and and he pulls me outside with this little drink in his hand and he told me like I'm glad you didn't sign the long-term deal here your time is up like what what you mean my time is up he's like you probably won't be playing much the rest of the year and he stuck to his word like barely play me but never explain why but when I got older I was like this is the only reason why he could have did this to me because I was one of his favorite players.

53:26The only reason why he could have did this to me is because I turned down his extension and he's kind of the man that opened the door to allow me even be in this position. So again, some of it was my fault, but he stuck to his word. But I remember there was one game where I hit four or five threes and I only played 13 minutes. You know what I mean? Like I was, and it's just kind of how it was. And then it kind of started my carousel. Y 'all never had a conversation about a real one? We didn't. I'm definitely not, and my goal is still, you know, we want to get on Nelly's line and have an interview with them.

53:55and I don't know if he'll even remember it, you know, but it is something I still plan on, you know, having a conversation because I have a lot of love and respect for Nelly. Again, he is the one coach that really go play basketball and allow me because, you know, if it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't even, I would have been out the league in three years, four years. That's a tough spot though, bro, because it's like if I know, if I feel strong about, man, I can get double that. Yeah. Why wouldn't I hold on? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but man, I can't take that, but man, I want to be here.

54:24but for somebody to if that's what he did if he used that again that's a tough spot yeah because to me it was the only like i was just i tell you like nelly me heavy i remember this one game where we're in memphis and i had uh seven threes and i want to say i had like 36 37 points the next day we're coming down to breakfast and i didn't have no sweatshirt on it was cold and nelly tried to give me his stinking ass smoke jacket he's like here wear this i don't want you getting sick i don't want you getting sick so he's like and i'm like no coach i'm good this kind of bullied me into wearing his jacket that morning but you know i ended up being a captain on that the team the year before like i went from the end of the bench to sixth man to starting to start in the playoffs so nelly really me and again so when i turned that deal down and he flipped the script on me what could have been the only reason why he flipped the script on me was because i turned down kind of like biting the hand to feed you that's that's the life or the things that happen in the nba and in professional sports that people really don't know yeah oh i may get a headline like Matt turn this down but you don't understand that the the background or how how the backlash hit you yeah and this is pre-social media you know what I mean so it's just it's kind of behind yeah behind the scenes it kind of is what it is so you kind of just have to damn I missed that opportunity what's next man the 071 moms passed man like like what was going on that made her go get go get checked out she actually so she leading up we actually had a we I got lawyers to see what our lead you know if we had legal process So we were going to sue Kaiser, but we found out leading up because we're leading up to it for a year and a half before.

55:57Six times. No, six times she went to the doctor, you know, shortness of breath, never have energy. And she was a little bit overweight. So they made her change her diet and you need to start doing this. So she lost like 50, 60 pounds. And she's like, I still feel the same way. But they just wouldn't run no blood, no blood test or do no scans. So she had a minor heart attack at work, got rushed to the hospital. Got her vital signs back down and they were like, got her out that day. But my dad was wheeling her out in a wheelchair and they saw my dad's doctor that did his knee replacement. So they stopped and started chopping it up.

56:32And it's like, you know, he asked my mom, why are you in the wheelchair? He's like, I had a heart attack today and they're already getting me back out. They didn't even do no blood work, no scans or nothing. He's like, well, do you want me to take you back? And they're like, yeah. So he took her back and he took x-rays of her chest and there was so much cancer in her chest. You couldn't even, it was blurry. Like she had two softball sized lumps on her chest, but the rest was just like, man, it's really bad. And she had four cancers all in stage four and died 26 days later. So we were going to sue because they actually went back and my dad found on the records like six year or six, excuse me, six visits in a year and a half.

57:04And they didn't do anything. And then once we got the lawyers, it's like, you know how much Kaiser gets sued and it's, you know, how many malpractice suits they have. It's like, to be honest with you, it's not going to be worth the money you're going to spend for me to win this case because you probably won't get nothing back. I was just like, damn. Man. So it was what it was. When she got that diagnosis, did they attach a time frame to it? No. I remember, too, we had just got her had a preseason game in Seattle, and she called me right when I got on the plane in Seattle and told me. And I was just in disbelief.

57:37Like, literally, right when I'm coming up the stairs and about to sit down, I'm just in disbelief. Like, what the f***? What? I'm like, no, don't worry. We're going to get you to UCLA. and then when she's just like, no, baby, I don't know. Yeah, but she just didn't have no confidence and she was gone four weeks later. Your mom smoked or anything? No. Oh, she smoked cigarettes, excuse me. She did smoke cigarettes. She quit cigarettes when we got older, but she did smoke them when I was younger, but yeah. And that was like the catalyst, two of you, when Pops kind of coming around. You said that really hit him hard.

58:06Yeah, it did. I lost my mom but gained a dad and it was just such an interesting dynamic and that was all my mom's doing. You know, that was the first time I see my dad cry, hug us, tell us he loves us. It was just a whole new person kind of just broke down and opened up and just started being a dad. And to me, the forgiveness was instant because to me it was never too late. It's never too late to be a dad. You know what I mean? So it's just like I learned my toughness from him and not to take no. We bonded on sports, but I had to kind of learn, unlearn everything else. And I always told God if I ever had an opportunity to have kids, I'm going to be the best dad I possibly can.

58:45And that's kind of what I've held my standard to since, you know, the twins came out. You also gained a brother, too, because you and Jack, you know, y 'all were teammates. But you said, you know, Jack showed up for you in a different type of way. Steven Jackson. How did he show up for you during that time? Just every day, Dre, just checking on me because, you know, Nelly was cool. He allowed me to miss practice if I just didn't have the energy or the life in me. And I was making trips back and forth to Sac, you know, from Sac to Oakland to just be with her in the hospital. but Jack, every time I was home, he would come watch TV with me, bring me some food.

59:15He'd come smoke. We'd come just talk and chop it up. So he just kind of went out of his way to just make sure I was good. But another funny part was in that short time of the season before, my mom and his mom had bonded strong, strong, strong, strong. But yeah, so they were really cool. So it was just like, you know, it kind of made me and Jack, although we were cool. We were teammates. We always kicked it together. It just kind of took our friendship to another level when he showed like how much he really cared and loved me. Come on. Yeah. And that thing obviously been, been. We're here now cause of it.

59:44Yeah. That's why we sitting here now. Yeah. Man, that's a beautiful thing, bro. You don't always get that with brothers, man. Nah, you don't. You know, and I love it too, because sometimes when a person is dealing with like that kind of pain. Sometimes you don't know what to do, but sometimes just sitting with that person. That's it. Bro, what you want to do? You want to watch TV? You don't feel like talking? I'm with you. I'm with you. See, there would be times, it's funny you said that, because there would be times sitting there with just silence. Yeah. But he was there. Yeah. Man, that's dope, brother.

1:00:10That's dope. This past weekend, like every other Sunday, you were on the court with the guys playing ball. Just a pickup game, living out your hoot dreams. No triple doubles, but a mean set of threes. In between buckets, one of the homies mentions, he closed on a new crib? This is big. And while everyone's asking about the housewarming and making plans to celebrate, you're asking the real question. Like, has he spoke to his State Farm agent yet about coverage? See, home ownership is one thing, but the right coverage is the real game changer. Even more than your last hot streak is how you protect your legacy.

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1:03:33Choose jewelry that reflects what she means to you and the moments you share. Make it even more meaningful by personalizing your piece with an engraving in your own handwriting, something no one else has, either a date, a name, or something unique to you. Because the best Mother's Day gift says more than I love you. It says I appreciate you. It says I see you. Find the perfect Mother's Day gift at your local Pandora store or online at pandora.net. I'm going to jump ahead a little bit from 07 to 210, man, when you had the Kobe no flinch moment. What happened with the Kobe no flinch moment? the Kobe situation was, you know, Kobe came to LA, I want to say 96 and I came to UCLA in 98 and he was just always on our campus and come to find out later, you know, that he just didn't really get along with the older energy that Shaq had and, you know, some of the things that was going on.

1:04:21So you would have thought Kobe went to UCLA. He was always on our campus and he used to come in and train in poly after we had practiced. So it started as just, first of all, like this dude's only two years older than me. Like there's no way I'm going to the NBA and like watching the stuff he was doing in these workouts. I'm like, ain't no way. Ain't no way. You know what I mean? So it kind of started as like admiration and respect and, and, and, and going back into poly and watching them work out and then playing pickup games with them. So he was kind of always the target. Like I missed MJ, you know what I mean?

1:04:49So by a year. So when I got there, I was doing like, when I finally got there, I'm like, Oh, here we go. And, but I had been watching him for a long time because he was just around. So it was just always just a mutual respect. You know, just used to make him work. That's it. Make him work. Nothing easy, hard fouls if needed. Like it was just a mutual respect. So the, the Orlando situation was the, the Orlando Magic and the Lakers had played in the finals the year before and the Lakers had got them. So the, the, they were expecting, this is young prime Dwight Howard was incredible by the way, they're expecting this Orlando team to go back to the final.

1:05:21So that, in that off season, they went and got me, Vince Carter and Jason Williams. So we were ready to go. You know, one of the best teams in the East all year. So it It was like March heading into the playoffs, and it was just a real chippy game. And Cole, one thing about Cole was he's always obviously the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to skill work, but he also tries to f*** with you and grab you and elbow you and do dirt. He got a little bit of that. He got that. No, he hit me one time, bro, in the sternum and knocked the wind at me. I wanted to, like, try to rip his head off. But the rest weren't calling it.

1:05:53So I started doing some hard fouls, and obviously they're calling fouls on me. So I'm like, f*** this, yeah. You ain't getting it, then you go get it. I'm thinking, you know, we talked about it in our last interview. I was like, bro, I was ready to fight you. Like, for real, I was ready to fight you. Like, the ball fake just kind of happened. It wasn't, like, premeditated. It wasn't. Like, I want to throw the ball in this mother f***ing face. So I just faked it. You know what I mean? So it just, it kind of happened. He didn't flinch, what was you thinking? It's a cold, but I still was ready to whoop him, Drake.

1:06:17Yeah, yeah. Still, you know, he's not going to flinch. I'm not going to flinch. What's going to happen? So, you know, long story short, I actually played good. I think I had like 16 or 17 points at the game, you know, the game deciding three. We ended up winning that game. Fast forward playoffs come. Boston gets us in the Eastern finals. Lakers beat Boston in the finals. There's talks of me getting some some decent money from there, too. But they ended up going to a different direction with another player. So I'm just like, damn. So I get a call from Pat Riley and he's kind of telling me what Miami is building.

1:06:49And this is leading into the big three year. He's kind of telling me who they're going to get, what the lineups will be down the stretch. And I'm like, I'm right down the street. I'm going to get a chance to play with Brown and D-Wade. I'm with it. And then I get a random call from a number I don't know. And I pick it up, and it's Kobe, and I don't believe it. And it's him. And we kind of start going back and forth. And I didn't talk about the incident at all, really. I congratulate him on the championship. He asked me what I'm doing this season. I'm just like, I don't know. I might go to Miami.

1:07:18What's up? And he's just like, you want to be a Laker? He's like, anyone crazy enough to me is crazy enough to play with me. I'm like, where? I'm in. And literally like three days later, I was on a plane to L.A. to sign my contract. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because, you know, similar to you and Kobe kind of coming up together in college a little bit, you know, it's like that with us in a fight game, right? Like fans see you and they're like, they think y 'all just met or y 'all just came across each other. But you know that. I've been seeing him since even, you know, you know each other. Yeah, I wouldn't even call it a friendship before either, Greg.

1:07:47I'm not delusional. I'm saying you were aware of him, though. Yeah, but you're very, yeah. I wouldn't say it was just always a mutual respect. You know what I mean? Obviously, he was who he was, and I was trying to establish who I was. But just every time I knew, like, okay, if I got to show out against anyone, it's him. I got to really lock in with him. So it was just like it was just a mutual respect for each other up until that point. And that ball fake, you know, made us brothers because we became teammates and kicked it heavy. Heavy. Like, people were like, how the fuck do you get Kobe to go out?

1:08:14I'm like, I don't know. He calls me. You know what I mean? Like, we would go places, and he had got a – I got to keep saying – he just had – it was a different life, bro. It was a different life. You know what I mean? So that was my dog, and we really bonded. And like you said, people know – this is kind of still pre-social media, so people don't know. You know what I mean? And they only think, oh, you guys – you know, he didn't like you, or you guys didn't get along. And I'm just like, like, if you only kind of really knew what it was. And, yeah, like, we bonded heavy. Like, instantly, I remember coming to that team.

1:08:44I'm a s*** talker. and the first person i went out with him and he came right back at me and i'm like no no i'm just talking even in the locker room just talking period just because i kind of he was quiet and people were kind of scared to kind of poke him it's like he recruited me i mean let me see where we at with it so i just started talking to him he talked back and it was cool after that and then after that it was just super open and he kind of let the wall down and gets me i remember one time we were on a bus at the phoenix airport and we were talking so much and laughing and busting up i'm like bro how come you don't show the world this and he thought to himself for a second and he kind of giggled like mb i can't show these mother this side and he was just always in kill mode he was always in mama mode but i was just lucky to get to know the other side and then post-career we i think we became closer because he was coaching gg and i was coaching the twins and and everything was out in orange county where he lived so we would talk on the you know every two weeks we'd see each other so i'd hit him or he'd hit me like hey what time you play we play here you play there we always make sure we went and supported but i remember there's a handful of times the twins are like eight years old at this time and he came and watched the twins like we played at like eight and they play like at 11 so this mother came three hours early and watched some eight-year-olds play basketball there's a dope video too um because ashton was just born my six-year-old was just born like probably two weeks he had been born he shouldn't He hadn't even been out the house yet, but Kobe, he watched the twins and got a chance to meet Ashton.

1:10:11Ashton was like two weeks old. And then, yeah, it was dope. What was it like being on a team with him, with a dude that's setting a pace like that, that kind of work ethic, always grinding? What is that like? You gotta run through a wall if he's gonna do it. I mean, I've seen Kobe play through so much, shoulder, fingers, hands, ankles, like he would have to not be able to move to not get out there. So if your best player is on that level, but you don't have no, you know, you don't have no choice. But I was always on 100 anyway. So I think that's why, you know, he went and got out and got Ron Nartest the year before because Ron choked him out or tried to choke him out in the playoffs.

1:10:44And then he went and got me the next year. Like, I'm tired of wrestling with you, my friend. The craziest part and the dopest is how me, him, and Ron used to like, you got to think we were all, we all start, you know, there was all times where we were all starting or all playing on the floor. And like me and Ron would want to do like, no, we got him, bro. You just worry about scoring. But let him score. I got that mother. You go guard here. Like we would argue who was going to guard the best player or the best players that night. Like although he was the man, like he brought me and Ron in to be some pit bulls on the defensive side and kind of, you know, do whatever.

1:11:15Like he would still want to guard the best player. Like, nah, bro, we got it. Chill out. Just go score. We got this. You know what I mean? So it was just you just saw his competitiveness. When I would go out in Orange County, the first time I went to work out with him, I said, all right, what time are we up? He says, 430. I'm like, damn, bro. I was like, all right, I'm going to drive down. He's like, nah, get yourself a hotel room down here so you're not late. So we're on the track at 4.30 in the morning, running sprints, then go in the weight room, lift crazy weight, then right to the court to shoot.

1:11:41I'm just like, it's every day. It's non-negotiable. He ain't missing no day. No, it's not. So he's done with his day at 9 in the morning. You know what I mean? So if he wants to go back later in the day and do whatever, but he didn't got five hours of work before the sun came up. So it was just, again, it was dope to see that side and how obsessed he was with, he always would tell me, he's like, MB, I got to sit at the table. I was like, what the fuck does that mean? He's like, I want to be able to get one more ring so I can sit at the table with MJ. That was his thing. I got to get one more, MB.

1:12:10I got to get one more. I'm like, if we win one more, can we smoke? He's like, yep. And, you know, unfortunate, because I came over the year they had won the back-to-back and they were supposed to, you know, a three-peat, his second three-peat. I tore my knee in March of that year. I came back a-shelling myself in the playoffs and Dallas beat the dog out of us. and that was the year Dallas made their run and beat Miami, brawning them, and won the championship. You knew that route that he was on, that he passed on? Like, you knew his system? Like, he'd get in the chopper, he'd do like... Yeah, I mean, it was calming because he lived in Orange County, so he flew to L.A.

1:12:45a lot, and he would always have a car here just to kind of track. Sometimes he'd drive back and forth, and most of the time he'd chopper to, I don't even know where he landed, I think LAX, and then came to El Saguna for practice. So they were going from Orange County to the Mamba Academy, which is in Thousand Oaks. So that's a that's probably a good two hour drive. So he was he jumped in the plane. That's probably like a 20 minute chopper, 20, 30 minute chopper. Man, what was you thinking about when you got that call about COVID? Lost. I couldn't believe it. You're in on the news. So what happened was I still had a house in the Bay back at this time.

1:13:21and I took my, the twins team to the bay to play in against, there was supposed to be some tough ass team from San Francisco we needed to play. So we were in the championship, it was on a Sunday, championship Sunday. I remember. And we were supposed to play them that day and me and, I had a tri-level house and we're at my rooms at the very bottom. So the kids are upstairs in the game room around and I'm smoking some of the dads down in my room and we're watching TV. And one of the dads hits me and says, Kobe just died. I'm like, get the out of here. and i don't even keep smoking whatever he's like no for real kobe just died he's like someone just told me then we turned on the news and sure enough so i went up and and told the twins um because since we came to la the twins were maybe four or five four maybe when i came to the lakers and kobe embraced them instantly giving them shoes hugging them they'd wrestle with them in the locker room that was uncle co and throughout every time a shoe dropped he would send the twin shoes and once they started playing he started sending their whole team shoes so the crazy now we have a picture of this he redid one of his earlier shoes they had just had arrived two weeks before and the whole team had him on that day um for the tournament and so i went up and told the twins what happened and they started crying and it was just kind of a really somber day um we went out and beat the other team we were supposed to beat in honor of him.

1:14:45And it was tough, man. It didn't seem real. And then at first you're hearing all the rumors of who else was on the chopper with them. It was other teammates and this, this and that. And then to find out it was Gigi and her teammates and some other parents, I'm just like, Trey, something was even crazier than that though. This is pandemic time or right before pandemic, right after pandemic, I don't know, someone correct me on that, but everyone was wearing masks. and I was in Gelson's in Encino and I had a hoodie on and a mask and I had passed this dude. This dude had passed me like three times and I saw like in his eyes, his eyes were watery.

1:15:21Every time he passed me, he just stared at me. So finally, I'm like, bro, can I help you? Like, why do you keep looking at me? You know what I mean? And he pulls his mask down. He's like, you're Matt Barnes, right? I'm like, yeah. He's like, right hand to God. I was the radio communicator with Kobe when he crashed. So he told me that they came in and there was heavy fog. So they had him circling around the LA Zoo. And then they were in a holding pattern and they had to wait, they had to wait. And then he said, all of a sudden, they had left and got on the other side of the freeway. So it was someone else's job to tell them what to navigate the space.

1:16:08it wasn't so he said he went to lunch and he didn't know it was kobe at the time obviously because he's only talking to the to the to the helicopter guy he says he goes to lunch and comes out comes back and finds out that helicopter crashed and then he said it but and then by that time once he found out he found out it was kobe so he said he just had he's like i don't i don't want to scare you away i probably shouldn't even test but i can't tell nobody this and he he told me that in Gelson's grocery store in N.C. No. Unbelievable, man. Yeah. Unbelievable, man. I remember I was at church. I had took my boys to work out early that morning.

1:16:44We went to church, and all of a sudden, you just start seeing people looking up. Phones, phones, phones. All of a sudden, it's just, I looked at my phone, and man, unbelievable, bro. Yeah. Unbelievable. Still don't seem real. I mean, after what's it coming up on five years, like, you know, you just don't feel like you lose superheroes. Like, superheroes don't die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, they do something else. And Kobe was going to be great. Yeah. but he was so adamant you know he was so so me and jack went out to his space in orange county to interview him and when i tell you from the time we stepped in because we went into the office and just kicked it with him for a little bit he was showing us the children's book he was writing and told me something about his fun and he was just so adamant on just like watch this next 20 years mb i'm like what you mean he's like i don't want people to know me for the last 20 years i'm thinking like you're a five-time champ one of the greatest what are you talking about it's like no watch watch what's next and Kobe was the one that told me like our transition into business should be easy because we're such disciplined athletes to make it where we win if we just apply this same discipline to business we're going to outwork everybody and he was the first person although I knew my grind was going to do that he's the person that put it in words he's just like you know you know me we're up at four or five in the morning on the track now I'm up at four or five in the morning answering emails a lot easier you know so he was the one that's like yo if we apply this athletic grind to life we're gonna kill it and he went he went line yeah ryan coogler had that line i don't know if it was with y 'all he's saying how he said man i work everybody in the industry because i was an athlete yeah we told and we talked about what i just told you on that he's like oh it made sense i remember we were downstairs we talked about that yeah it's like the mission is different but the mindset is still the same grind still got to put the work in you got to put it in period i don't care how much money you made you still got to work and kobe had a uh fund uh oscar children's books like investments you saw you know unfortunately after he passed he cashed out for what four or five hundred million with body armor like he was so at it was so weird how adamant he was about it that day like man watch this next 20 that last 20 wouldn't watch this next 20 i'm just like damn all right bro i'm with you and lately you and jack i've been standing on business about some of the comments y 'all been hearing about kobe things that you feel yeah people weren't saying why he was alive yeah i just feel and and obviously everyone's entitled to your opinion but if you got a chance to be around and to play against it or play with them it's just like you guys wasn't saying none of this weird when he was here like none of the weird obviously i feel like the media has always kind of attacked cove and and because he's had some issues off the court and then for years they said he was standoffish or whatever but i never saw that dude you know i mean when i met him he was cool as a mother fan but i kind of felt just kind of thinking back and watching this journey with you know some of the stuff on and off the court or excuse me some of the stuff off the court like some of the media's had the media had an agenda against him you know what i mean so i expect espn or fox or these weird ass bleach report these weird ass you know numbers to come out where he's not top 10 or he's not this but then when you speak to guys that you know in the league is he's top three you know what i mean all it's consensus at least at the worst top five when you talk to former players but then you let this the media tell you and and everyone start kind of talking weird now i'm just like come on man like you expect these to do it but what are you doing so that's it just you know just just trying to be something you say even appears even players saying yeah the players started saying stuff later so they're anonymous yeah it wasn't even anonymous it was it was some really some people i quit you know what i mean and i didn't throw no names on what i said i'm just like man y 'all got to chill with the hypotheticals or woulda, shoulda, coulda, woulda, like, you wasn't with COVID, you know that.

1:20:22Period. So why act like you were now? That's it. Man, this on a little bit lighter note, man. You done broke off a few dollars, man, to the NBA, bro. Yeah, buddy. You done had some situations with the NBA. Are you thinking about that while you in the middle of something right now? Like, this might be 40, this might be 50. Mm-mm. I never was because, going back to my childhood, like, the one thing I took from my dad is, you know, family is everything. So whatever team I was on, it was family first. And if you look back at the majority of my fines, none of my fines were ever really people coming at me.

1:20:56It was they were coming at the stars of my team. And if I'm in the foxhole with you, I'm in the foxhole with you. Right or wrong, we don't go. You know what I mean? So there was just a lot of times, oddly enough, the only person that paid for a fine when I had his back was Cole. Only person. Oh, don't worry about that. That won't come out of your check. I got you. Like, oh, word. And that didn't come out of my check. so yeah that's crazy i don't want to get into the to the to the derrick fisher altercation and all that stuff bro but what what i do want to talk about is the growth aspect bro so you got to help me you got to help me understand how you got here bro because i don't know if i could have got here the beefish coaching your boys and it being peace on this side please tell me what what did you do how did you get there me and fish are cool man and that's a lot of people still and you got well y 'all How cool today?

1:21:48Yeah, to this day, we straight. He wouldn't be coaching my sons if we weren't. Man, come on, help me. Yeah, we wouldn't. But people don't realize, like, this was, man, like 11 years ago. I feel it. You know what I mean? So, I mean, obviously, what happened, happened. You know, I divorced the twins' mom. And after that, you know, whatever happened, happened. And then whatever happened between me and him happened. But I left to Memphis for that season. And then it comes out later. I end up getting suspended and all this. When I come home next summer and I'm not, and I'm still not like, I'm not on like, it's on site type.

1:22:21Like I was at peace with it. You know what I mean? I wasn't really necessarily tripping. I didn't know if I was big enough yet to kind of squash it. But what made me squash it was when I, you know, when I came home, like, how you been? What's going on? You know, how's Derek treating you? And the twins response was, you know, Derek is great. You know, we love Derek. You know, is there any chance you guys can be friends? Easy call. You know what I mean? So once, because it me, it wasn't about my ex no more. like you know i mean like our our ships had sailed it was just about what was best for the boys how are we going to raise these boys and and they told me that and we were at i remember the twins had won a championship flight football game and we were with the group of everyone was kind of after we're done celebrating everyone's walking out to the parking lot and derek's kind of like 30 yards behind us but i'm up here with my ex-wife and the twins and the rest of the team and everyone's celebrating.

1:23:10And I remember this look too, it's funny. I stop and I yell his name. And then I just happened to, like my ex-wife was standing next to me and she looks at me like, oh, what are you about to do? So I wait for him. He walks and we just talk. And I'm just like, listen, man, I want to do what's best for the kids. And we had the conversation about, I told him why I did what I did. And he kind of spoke his little piece. And it was cool after that. You know what I mean? Because again, it wasn't about my ex-wife anymore. It was just about what's best for my kids. And my kids had had that taken to him.

1:23:42So to me, like before that happened, like fish was a solid dude. You know what I mean? You know, carry yourself well. So if anyone's going to be around my kids, I wanted to be someone. So I gave him like real, right? Like I was still in the league at this time. I'm like, yo, you're around my kids more than I am. And like, I need you to be, you know, don't put your hands on, but I need to be a father figure to teaching the ropes, you know, right and wrong. Like I just said, like you're when you're, you're their dad too. You know what I mean? and I felt comfortable enough saying that to him. And, you know, he took it and he's been great.

1:24:10I mean, you got to think him and he's been with the Twins for like 10 years. You know what I mean? So it's been a long time. I don't know how you, I'm playing. You don't do it. But it's cool. You know, like we all, me, her, him, we all get along. He coaches the Twins in the off season. Him and, you know, his wife come to watch our AAU. And it was all, we all had to put that behind us and realize it was bigger than us. You know what I mean? and people like, how can you that? Never, it's on Cypher. But it wasn't because it wasn't like I was, you know, I was, her and I were both over the situation.

1:24:41I was just the one that kind of finally made the move. So it was just like, you know, we had both passed as a couple, but now it's about raising these boys. And, you know, I think we've done a great job raising young, respectful kids. And it took a village, you know, their side and, you know, my side with Anonsa and everything. And I think we raised some well-rounded, you know, kids. That's where we're at today. I don't know how long ago, a couple years ago, I seen that he was standing next to the boys coaching him. So I scrolled through, I was like, I said, no, that's probably old. But I said, is that old?

1:25:14Because the boys got older. I'm like, I got to talk to Matt about this, bro. So if you ever need proof that you're evolving and growing better, I mean, that right there is it. My life is, especially with my childhood, everything is about my kids, man. And I show that on a daily basis. So if it's good for them, it's good for me. Man, tell me about that last year in Golden State 17. Did you know that was your last year? Yeah. You knew it? No, not until after the fact. The only thing that I wanted to come back for was I got hurt going into the playoffs and I didn't really get to play in the playoffs.

1:25:48But at the same time, there was just stuff going on in my life outside that I wasn't really, you know, like business on a good side. business started flourishing that I invested in, but also wasn't getting a chance to see my twins as much as I wanted and realizing that I'm missing a lot. I'm missing firsts of, I'm missing everything. I'm missing a ton of shit because I'm in the Bay. She's in LA. I'm not seeing them as much. I'm missing school, birthdays, parties, games. And I just had to come into peace. And actually, to be honest with you, what kind of really made me decide was Ray in here, my homeboy Ray, had a cardiac arrest and almost died.

1:26:21You know what I mean? And it made me realize like, man, I love basketball, but I got kids and I'm missing so much time. And like when he, I call it life after death. When this died on the court, when we were playing pickup game and then came back to life, it just made me realize like, man, it's time to bust a move. Like, and I was excited about busting a move, to be honest with you, like played a long time, won a championship. I was still going to be paid for two more years. So I gave myself a little window to find what was next. But most importantly, like I got to do that every day, You know what I mean?

1:26:51And it was time. Man, bruh. Y 'all, man, that guaranteed money in the NBA is beautiful. It's good money. Boxing, we eat what we kill. You don't work, you don't eat. I feel it. Ain't nothing guaranteed. Even when you sign for a fight, this is what I'm getting if I show up and actually fight. But if I get injured, it's all bad. When I say the word retirement to you, what do you think? What do you feel and what do you think? What's next? That's what it felt to me. Like, I felt like I had a, I beat all the odds and lasted as long as I lasted and had a dream career. Just getting paid money to put a basketball in the hoop.

1:27:29And I was just ready for, like, what was next? What's next? What's happening? And I found space. I found this media space and took off in it. But a lot of cats, they panic, though. And it's like my baby, my thing that I'm known for and that I do, my routine is over with. And a lot of dudes don't flourish at all in retirement. Don't panic. It's organic, Dre. I was just on that tree. You know what I mean? and just figured something good was going to happen. You know what I mean? Again, I had a two-year window, so I wasn't necessarily panicking. And I think I credit that to maybe me not panicking because I knew the 1st and 15th it wasn't going to change.

1:28:01It was still going to be the same thing. So it just kind of, I was allowed to kind of really evaluate stuff that came my way as far as investments and what's next. And, you know, it just happened to be media. And at first it was no to the media because, you know, I'm my end of my career was you know the kind of the flourish of social media so for a long time it was like you know like talking to the cops like I'm not talking to the media you know what I mean so but someone convinced me to try it I tried it I loved it and then once I realized that you could make some good money in it I'm like I'm in and I you know to be honest with that's what surprised a lot of people about me because up into that point knowing a lot of people had never heard me talk like you see me on the court you know doing whatever I do cussing the ref outs you know you know him and somebody up and that's all he's this he's that and then I start the next thing they see me on ESPN like oh and the next thing they see me on all the smoke like oh and you know from there we just we took off so the pod when the podcast started on Showtime you didn't even know the podcast was you and Jack was like what's the podcast he was like I think it's like a lighter interviews type of format yeah and then you and then you built this yeah we built yeah we uh just we got to be us i knew we could smoke a funny story so our first photo shoot here we smoking weed the whole day doing a photo shoot and brian david we could laugh about it now who he's with us with all smoke production but he went back to showtime with it they're like what it like what no you know i mean so he had to really put his chin out there for us and take a chance on us and hustle to make it happen.

1:29:35And, you know, out the gates, the first year we won Sports Pod of the Year, so they knew they had some, they still just didn't know what it was. And, you know, I think we were Showtime three years, three and a half years, and, you know, Paramount came in and there was a possibility that they were going to not want the sports side. So myself and Jelani and Stack, we started this. And I told Brian, I'm just like, listen, I know you probably can't really talk about this right now, but, you know, if you end up being done at Showtime, there's room over here for you. You know, because of you, all this started and it happened and you know, we're here five years later with the whole company and a beautiful building and different verticals and boxing and MMA and we're launching NFL.

1:30:18And it's just, I couldn't imagine it being this good. It's powerful to witness, bro. It's a blueprint for many. But we appreciate you, man. It was like, it was, you know when we start building out these sides of it, It's just like, you know, who do we trust and who, who can we empower and give opportunities to? And we, you know, getting a chance to meet you, just being a fan of you from afar, but then getting a chance to meet you. I'm like, oh, he's dope and he's detailed. And I think he'll be great in this space. And, you know, lo and behold, now you're the head of the boxing side. So we appreciate that.

1:30:50Happy to be a part, man. And, you know, it's a beautiful thing, bro. We're doing something great, bro. Yeah. Appreciate the opportunity. I got two more quick ones. I'm gonna let you out. What would you tell your 18 year old self? Knowing what you know now. Enjoy the journey. I wouldn't change nothing. I wouldn't change none of the mistakes because I feel like I learned from all of them, but just enjoy the journey. I think as athletes, sometimes, like, we're so fixed on what's next that we don't enjoy. And I enjoyed it, but just I felt like maybe I could have enjoyed it a little bit more. But I was always one of those guys like the sixth or seventh year in the league.

1:31:22I was fighting. Every game was an audition, not for my team, but the league. You know what I mean? So I never had a multi-year deal until like year six. Yeah. So I would tell my 18 year old self to enjoy college. I enjoy college, not gonna lie, but enjoy the journey in the NBA. Mm-hmm. What would your mother say about the man that you have become today? Oh, she'd be so happy. She'd be proud. I could tell, I know she's smiling right now, listening to this question and me answer. She was proud. I mean, I could do no wrong in her eyes, Drake. Like I could do no, even my brother and sister, like you're not supposed to have a favorite, but mom love you the most.

1:31:55Like we could, you know what I mean? They know what I said. Yeah, that was the homie. So it's just like she would be happy and to know the way I'm carrying myself, the father I am, the businessman I am, the provider I still am for a lot of people. She'd be proud. That's dope. Yeah. Brother, we all got a story, man, and it's not always pretty. But to see you fighting through, man, and evolving and growing at your age, man, is a beautiful thing, bro, that you're not getting stuck in your ways. Can't. I mean, I feel like you die the day you stop learning, the day you stop growing, the day you stop listening.

1:32:24I think, you know, especially for us who've been to the top of the mountain, sometimes we get stuck in our own ways. We ourselves up. But just to know that there's always room to learn and grow. And I credit my success to my got a hell of a team here. You know, we've been able to build a hell of a team across the board. Every single person in here is solid and I can trust them. And I think that's why we continue to succeed. Brother, keep going, man. My dog. Appreciate you. No doubt. And that's a wrap for another episode of the Art of War. You know how we do, man. We got real people, real conversations, real stories, man.

1:32:56Till next time. We appreciate you tuning in.

1:33:22Thank you.

1:33:52Thank you.

1:34:30Thank you.

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