Shakur Stevenson: ‘I’m Not Easy Work’ & The Truth About the Devin Haney Standoff

24:51I don't watch tape. But I really caught that from watching Floyd and saying, oh, he'll watch tape. And Floyd do watch tape. He just don't say he watch tape. Floyd watch tape for sure. But I had to remember myself. And when I remember myself, I'm like, yo, let me go back to when I'm at the top of my game. Back when I was in the amateurs. Yeah, yeah. I used to think about it. When I used to fight against guys, the day before I get to see them fight. And I used to sit by the ring. And I used to sit there, study them, and come up with my own game plan of what I'm going to do with them the next day.

25:26And then by the time I fight them, I already got them figured out. And it was always so easy. And I kind of forgot that throughout my career because I kind of went with the voice of NYC. I ain't watching these guys either. Like, that's going to mess me up if I watch tape. I'm going to overthink it. But I ain't going to lie, that shit changed my whole game now. Like, paying attention to habits and traits and things that people do is like, it's interesting to me. You got to do it, bro, if you want to be elite. Facts. You got to. I'm going to take it back real quick to the business of boxing. You know, the WBC, before your fight and after the fight, you know, they start talking like they do.

26:03And we know with the sanctioning bodies, but I'm going to just call out the WBC right now, what they want. They want to have their hands in everybody's pot, everybody's money, even if you're not fighting for their belt. Yeah, that's crazy. So you as a champ, you still have one belt at 35, right? No, at 40. At 40? Yep. But I thought you had one at 35, too. They took it. WBC stripped me. I thought you had two belts at 35, no? No, I had one. So they took the one bail. So the WC strips you after the fight. Yeah. But the reason they stripped you, and you can speak more on it, they wanted to be a part of the move up.

26:35Yeah. Right? And they still wanted, what, seven figures? Six figures, I mean? $100 ,000 and some change or something like that? I want to say it was triple what I had to pay for my fight. So, you know, after the fight, you got to pay. Sanction fee. Yeah. So I paid that. And then for the Teal fight, they tried to triple it. But they were not a part of the fight for the people that don't. in the fight. No WBC belt on the line. Not at all. So what happened? Basically, they kept sending emails back and forth to my team. You know, we in camp now. It's that type of moment. We ain't trying to too much focus on that.

27:14So we was, I guess, slow responsive to them. We responded to them, but I already knew beforehand that they was going to strip me. I was cool with it because at the end of the day, I know this ain't right. so the side that I'm on is I want to be on the right side of things and I'm not paying nobody that much money if you don't have nothing to do with my fight what am I paying you for you don't have nothing this is a WBO sanctioned fight for me and T.O. at a different weight class so why would I pay you any money so I just felt like they were trying to rob me but truthfully I felt like their issue was more so with Bud because this didn't happened and they didn't come to us with this until they started having issues with bud crawford and i felt like that wasn't right either because if me and you mauricio and all these people with the wbc we got a relationship and we cool why are you taking out your beef that you got with bud on me and i just don't respect it man i respect the stance you gotta you gotta do it you know I think you said something like, you know, I'd rather give that money to my daughter, to my baby girl.

28:27And when you start doing the math, all the money we start giving them, brother, you're giving away mortgages, houses, cars, tuition, vacations. And we're going to keep talking about this over time because it's going to continue to be an issue. But the Sanctioning Bodies, man, and more specifically to WBC, like, y 'all got to stop with that stuff. and the guilt trip that y 'all use is not going to work. You trying to come for Bud Crawford and try to tarnish his name or come for Shakur or any fighter that really know the business of boxing, that's not going to work. Especially when it's like we're the ones risking our life.

29:01Like, I'm in the ring really risking my life. Things can go left at any given moment. And if that's the case, y 'all should respect what we do and have some type of decency when it come down to me holding my belt that I sat there, I worked hard for, I put in the training camp. How can you just strip me like that? That ain't, I don't respect that. Mauricio feels like the WBC made the fighter, and he doesn't understand that the fighter makes the WBC belt. Yeah, that's crazy. I wanted to fight for the WBC belt, not because it was nice and green or whatever. I wanted to fight for it because of the champions that had that belt.

29:40I saw Floyd have it. I saw Ali have it. I saw Sugar Ray Leonard have it. I said, I want that in my house. That's the reason. So the sanctioned body does not make the fighter. Facts. The fighter makes the sanctioned body and the belt. Facts. I agree. And I wanted to fight for the belts for the same reason when I seen everybody like y 'all with the belts and flags, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But you get to a point, and this is the part that they struggle with, I need it to a certain degree. To a certain degree. But then when I get to a certain point, I get smarter on the business side and say, man, I was okay giving you that money.

30:14I'm not okay giving you that money no more. And then number two, I really don't need your belt. They're going to come see me regardless. Got to accept that. Got to accept that. So I appreciate you making a stand on that. Another name that you keep getting linked with is Devin Haney. Another fighter you got a lot of history with, came up in the amateurs with. It's a fight that's going to get hard to get made because of the weight difference. Is that how you see it? I mean, I just feel like, see how you just said, like what you said about the belts, right? I agree. Like, I feel the same way about the belts.

30:47I appreciate them also. Good place for it. For everything that they did. But when we're talking about, like, a Devin Haney fight, he got a belt at 147 pounds. I got a belt at 140 pounds. I'm willing to move around and meet at certain weights if the fight is that big and is that serious. And I'm down. I'm down. Like, I'm all for making the biggest and best fights happen. But I'm not just about to just give you what you want. Like, who are you for me to, and no disrespect to Devin. Like, Devin, you're a hell of a fighter. But who are you for me to just be like, oh, I'm going to give you exactly, I'm pound for pound one of the best fighters in the sport of boxing, bro.

31:30What I got to go to 147 for you for when me and you could meet in the middle. We could meet 144. That's what you're proposing, 44. Let's do it. What's the problem? I don't see the issue. You just, hold up. But let's remember correctly. He fought Brian Norman. And before that fight, he fought Jose Ramirez. When he fought Jose Ramirez, the weight was at 144 pounds. So if he's fighting at 144 pounds against Jose Ramirez, two fights to go. What is the problem with fighting me at 144 pounds? That's how I look at it. And the Haney's, their stance is they don't want to go past 147. I mean, that's what they say.

32:07But like I said, once again, we could sit at the table and negotiate. That has never even happened yet. We never... Bill is like, I'm not going to say he a cool guy. He be tweaking on the internet. But I respect Bill. I respect Bill for what he do for his son. I don't mind sitting at a real table, me and you, Devin, Jay, and we could sit there and negotiate and make a... Find what's right for the fight to happen. Let's do it. We all businessmen. We all could handle our own at the business table. So that's how I look at it. Like, I see Devin Haney as a hell of a fighter. I see Bill as a hell of a businessman.

32:45But if y 'all really bought y 'all business and that's what y 'all want, let's make it happy. Jay and Bill, they was on a million dollars worth of gain. They called Jay on the phone. And it wasn't a negotiation, but they started talking about the weight. And that's what I think Jay had mentioned, 144. Bill was like, Dev is the best fighter at 147. In other words, we're not interested in going down. What is stopping for y 'all to get into a real negotiation? I don't know what's stopping it. I mean, if they serious and it's that, they shouldn't even have to go. We don't got to go through a million dollars.

33:19No disrespect to Gilliam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that just happened. That wasn't a real year. We got each other's number. Well, I don't have Devin. But Bill and Jay got each other's number. We could set this up and it could be that. But once again, this is how I look at it. If they not saying right now, let's fight, then I'm going to grow. Like, I'm still growing. I'm still getting bigger. And I don't see Devin getting past 147 pounds. I don't see him going to 154. He could say whatever it is, but, like, I don't see him getting in the ring with no boots. Like, I don't see that. So, if that's the case, I got time to get to that 147 pounds.

33:58So, if it's that, I'm going to get there when I get there. Man, that's a big fight for the sport of boxing. Let's do it. That's a whole lot of money on the table. And, you know, I had Bill on the show, I think in January. Bill said, you on the list. I said, Bill, what list? He said, the list? You ain't know he was on the list? Yeah. I didn't know he had a list. At least I knew he had a list, but I didn't know your name was on the list. Yeah. Then he went from saying you was on the list to, you know, saying you was easy work. Yeah. Shakur's easy work for Devin. Yeah, that was crazy. Are you easy work for anybody?

34:29Hell no. Hell nah. Hell nah. Honestly, I was listening to it and I watched it. I seen the things he was saying like, oh, we gonna walk him down and all of these things. So, I mean, all of it sounds good, but like deep down inside, Bill know. Like, he know. He know who I am. Y 'all got history. He know. I was probably one of Bill's favorite fighters coming up. He can say whatever he want. Camera's out right now. This shit goes somewhere. So, Bill, I was one of your favorite fighters. He know it. Devin know it. Like, Devin used to kind of... He know. They know. So, that's how I feel. Like, you can say whatever you want, but I respect Devin.

35:13I think Devin is a great fighter. He got a great mentality. I don't think it's an easy... He's not an easy knife for nobody. That's what I told Bill. I said, I don't think it's easy for either fighter, bro. I said, that's... But I ain't easy work. That's what I do. I'm not easy. I ain't. There's no way. There's no way. I train too hard. I dedicate myself. I've been born for this since a kid. So all of these guys, any of them, let's do it. Man, that's a fight I want to see, man. I hope y 'all figure it out on the wayside, man. I think that's a great fight, legacy, great fight money-wise. And that's the fight.

35:46Like, I've been in H-Town probably just, you know, not even 24 hours. And I already hear y 'all names. Like, man, I want to see Shaquille fight is Devin. Yeah, for sure. That's the fight. So, you know, but, you know, Bill going to pop his whip. Bill going to talk. Bill going to do his thing. He's doing his business. He's doing exactly what he's supposed to do. Man, when I see you now, when I see a lot of people with your name in their mouth, like we said earlier, right? To me, tell me if I'm wrong. It doesn't seem like you take it as personal as you used to when you was younger. To me, you turn it into business now.

36:15Yeah, okay. And you get what you can out of it. And if it's real, you pursue it. If not, you keep it moving. But I don't see you taking the call outs and stuff as personal. Do you see the call outs different now? Nah, it makes sense. It makes sense. But I just look at it like I said earlier. It's like I remember it was a time it wasn't a lot of people calling my name. I remember it was a time where people just used to shit on my name. Now it's like I'm in everybody's talks. Like everybody that you see, whether they on TV or where they at, oh, Shakur, Shakur, Shakur. Like that's all you hear. So I'm just happy to be where I'm at.

36:55Like, everything is going according to plan. Like, my plans is coming to fruition now. So, I don't take this stuff personally no more. At the end of the day, like you said, it is a business. And as long as I'm prepared and as long as I'm ready for any of these guys that keep saying it, they all going to get their day. That's how I look at it. Like, you can say, okay, Shakur, Shakur, once that day comes, you got to deal with me. And once again, under them bright lights. I am not who you want to see across the ring. How much of the internet noise do you actually pay attention to? I get motivation from it.

37:32So you watching and listening all the time. I'm too competitive. I'm too competitive. I don't understand how bad I'm competitive like this. It's like I hear something, then it's like, oh, nah. Go to the gym, champ. Go to the gym. As soon as I see it, I, shoot, you going to beat me? I'm going to the gym. I'm going to figure out how to beat you right now. I'm going to work on my craft. That's just how I feel. I'm just... I do pay attention. I can't just super all the way turn it out. It's a time to turn it out. When it comes that time and fights made and now shut the noise up and just focus on the task.

38:14But right now, I hear it and I draw motivation from it. What happened to the Conor Bend situation? I mean, we reached out. We said, let's do it. It sounded like it was emotion after the fight. We reached out and we said, let's do it. And what I heard is from people very close to him that that ain't what they really want. Really? But that's the problem. Like, you jumped in the ring doing my fight. Yeah. Like, when you jump in the ring, it's like, okay, why are you doing that? You better be ready to fight if you do that. Hey, man. He know. What do you think of kind of being? He just fought pro grade.

38:52What do you think about Conor Ben as a fighter? As a fighter, he's levels below. Like, levels below. Levels? Levels. Like, more than one? Levels. Like, it ain't even, like, a close. Really? A debate to even talk about. Nah, he's levels below. But what I will say about Conor Ben, he's very focused, and he is getting better. He's not just staying in the same spot. I see him kind of getting. But when you at this level and somebody at this level, you're kind of like getting a little bit better. But it ain't going to happen. What does that mean, though? Because the average person, like, he's tough, he's strong.

39:27Yeah. When you say he's levels below you, like, give me. He don't know enough. He don't, okay. He don't know enough. It's not a lot of things that he know that I know. So you see mistakes he's making, he's not changing. Yes. Things he's doing in the ring that's like, ah. Even in his talk, like, you can hear in his talk, like, what he say about him as being a fighter. He would explain to you his style. You listen to him and you know. If you know as a fighter, you know. Like, okay. He ain't on that level. He'll tell you. You'll understand it by the way he talks. You think he believes the stuff that he says?

40:02I think that he's a great businessman. That's what I think of Conor Ben. I think Conor Ben is a hell of a businessman. He's a low-level fighter that's making top-tier level money. and when you put yourself in that position, I think he's smart as a person and as a human being. But like I said, it's just levels. It's levels. The weight ain't no problem either? No, not with like, at the end of the day, you got to realize, Connor Ben, he's not no super big guy. Like, people kind of make him to be this. But he's very small. Yeah, he's very small. Talk to that man like that. He's small. I done seen him.

40:42When I seen him in London, it automatically sparked my brain like, oh, still really closer to my size. Like, I could picture myself in the ring with this guy. Like, you feel me? Another name that spoke on you was Ilya Teporia. The UFC lightweight champ. A little crossover right there. You would be interested in doing a Floyd Mayweather, Conor McGregor type of event? I'm a fun guy. Like, I'm all down for the partying and the fun. So, guys talking, and I think it's interesting with guys with the UFC and even the guy you seen at Yusuke Ford. Like, he went in there and kickboxed her. He went in there and did good, and he surprised me.

41:29I didn't even understand what I was watching. So, you know, there's a lot of people that probably be like, okay, he could do something with Shakur, but I guarantee you, I'm going to stop that dude. Guarantee. Guarantee you, I'm going to stop that dude. You don't respect his hand game? I've never even seen him fight. You've never seen him fight ever? Never. Not one time. That's crazy. I can't tell you what he fight like, how good he is, but I'm definitely underestimating him because I'm very confident. I'm definitely underestimating him. You got to understand, like, I'm confident, and I've been doing this since five years old.

42:01Yeah. I know too much. Like, when I know too much, it's like, you're not going to come from the UFC and get in the ring with me and go 12 rounds and be comfortable, be happy with how it's—nah, it ain't. So how you explain the Usyk situation? Because you big on Usyk. How you explain that? I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I don't know what Usyk did, but what I will say, here's the difference between me that I was taught and I learned. You have to take every guy— Serious. Very serious. Maybe Usyk wasn't taught this. That's the excuse that I'm just going to give him until I see a rematch. When I see a rematch and he go in there and beat the guy up, then I'm like, okay, that's Usyk.

42:40But for me personally, it looked to me like Usyk did not take that guy serious. He came in out of shape. His feet wasn't as fast. He wasn't turning around the guy. It just seemed like it wasn't really kind of Usyk that I see fight. So what's the conversation piece between the UFC and boxing? I seen you on the Aiden Ross stream. When Aiden Ross says that UFC is better than boxing, is he saying the business of UFC, or is he saying the fighters are better than boxers? Man, I don't think that dude was tripping when he said that. Because it's like... But what is he saying, though? I mean, he probably just talking from a street fighting standpoint.

43:25That's what I would think. The MMA fighter can be the boxer. You know, Aiden Ross said that, but it was weird because he was involved in boxing events. Like, he kind of is a promoter from Brand Risk, but at first they was just doing just straight boxing. So it's like, for him to say that is like, it's going against kind of what he really stand for to me. Because you into boxing, you brought boxing with the YouTubers and all of that stuff. So I don't know, he was tripping. But if you're saying an MMA fighter, an elite MMA fighter, an elite boxer get in the ring and anything goes, it's like... In a boxing ring?

44:07I'm saying in a ring, just a ring. Anything goes? MMA fighter going to get busy. Yes. They going to get busy. For sure. Because they can shoot your leg, get you choked out before you know it. For sure. Now, you may know how to wrestle, but it's different. They know too many disciplines. But if we just talking stand-up, it's a different—it ain't no—yeah. If we just talking stand-up, it's— In them situations, you got to keep it on you. Right, yeah, because they get you—yeah, bruh. Exactly. Exactly. Health insurance matters, especially for athletes. But health care isn't some one-size-fits-all proposition, even though it's been treated that way forever.

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48:53Fidelity Brokerage Services, member NYSE, SIPC. let me ask you this man do you like being a celebrity you know as a kid you come up it's like you want to be kind of famous and like that's what you think about as a little kid but like when it actually happens hell no i hate this i do not like it like i don't want to be but i know this is my shoes that God put me in, but like, truthfully speaking, it's like, it's just so much, like, so many fake people, where it's like, you can't really even go to public places and just chill out and be... Ain't no chilling. Nah, it's people that gotta come to you and first thing they wanna talk about, oh, when you gonna fight Devin Haney?

49:50We ain't gonna fight Ryan. Like, bro, leave me alone, bro. I'm trying to eat my daughter. Trying to be with my family. You feel me? Like, it's just so much that come with it. And it's like, you get no real privacy. Never knowing somebody got a camera phone on. Everything that you say is a microphone. Like, at the end of the day, we all human beings. Like, I could say something and I'd probably be tripping in that moment. I'm not always right. I'm not going to say that I'm always right. I have moments where I trip out. but when I say it in the microphone or somebody recorded it, now it goes somewhere and then it just becomes this super big thing.

50:28And just being a celebrity, that's the type of things that come with it. But for me, it's like I don't be really respecting it. I enjoy doing interviews with you. I enjoy that kind of stuff. But now I'm at a point where I barely want to do interviews with people because they twist and turn. I've been seeing that a lot. And a clip. Everything is a clip now. Like how the world works is like a 10 second, a 15 second clip could be the most viral thing in the world. And a 10 to 15 second clip don't always tell a full story of things. So people have different versions of story or things that happened, but everybody got a pin on what happened with you in a certain situation just from being a celebrity.

51:11So honestly, I don't like it. I think I really truly think like how I know I'm a human being. I believe like everybody else. I'm a regular person. Like, that's how I treat people. Like, I don't. When you start thinking like you're a celebrity, you kind of treat the normal people bad. And me, I'm treating everybody with respect. And that's how I move. So, nah, I don't like it. It's a cold game out there because they not just recording now. They got the voice memos, too. they'll record just the audio, put it in their pocket, and then walk up to you and have a conversation. Or the metal glasses. Or the metal glasses.

51:51They walking to you with metal glasses and they talking to you and you having a conversation and you don't think it's on air or it's on wax and now they got you on wax talking. They don't explain this to you when they say, man, you want to be great? Man, you want to be a champion? Man, you want to be the best in the world? That's what I like. It's the piece they don't talk about. Yeah, they don't talk about that, yeah. But you also somebody who has always been close to your family. Yeah. But family pressure is a whole nother pressure when you got, when your money's being talked about publicly and your stardom and your star power is rising.

52:26How do you deal with the family pressure? Honestly, I'm glad that I had so much experience over the years with my family to be able to understand how to maneuver and let them know, like, bro, just don't believe everything that you see on the internet because the internet is the most false place in the world. They said you made 100 million in your life. Then you got to understand, too, you can't help everybody. Like, I love my family. I love everybody around them. But sometimes helping them is not just giving them money. Like, sometimes helping them is putting them in position to help theyself.

53:04Like, that's the main thing. And I think now that I'm getting older, I kind of realized that just giving somebody money is like you spoiling a kid or something. Like you can't be doing that with everybody. So now I'm in a situation where I'm like, here's I'm going to put you in this position. And I'm going to put this thing around you. And we're going to do it this way. And you help yourself. But you got to have that mindset. you got to adopt the mindset that I had to get where I made these millions of dollars. And if you don't get that, then it's on you. Your downfall and your failure will be on you.

53:42So that's how I look at it. Because I can't do this forever. I can't dig in my pocket forever. I got a kid right now. I got a family. But I learned that from Jay Prince too. Like just, it's a time that's digging in your pocket. Here you go, homie. But then it's another time to put a person in position. Say, look, now you got, I'm going to teach you how to fish. You got to go get your own fish now. Yeah, I watch it every day with him, actually. Every day. He's everybody around him. You could tell he got real genuine people around him, and he's really genuinely helping them figure theyself out, too.

54:16He's helping everybody. It's all a family type of thing. Man, that dude, he probably, I don't know if I made anybody really than that. J-Cole. J-Cole. That's my dog right there. Yeah, J. Cole, man. He a godfather of the South, man. But, you know, I love J. Because as busy as he is and as many things as he has going on and as much pressure as he has in his life, I could always get him on the line. I could always pull up on him. He'll always. We'll talk for two or three hours. I couldn't take the amount of time. Young, on the way up, riding in one of his whips around the Fifth Ward of just Houston, just talking about, like, my family, my background, talking about his family.

54:54Just powerful moments, man, that really helped me grow up as a young man, but you also... Go ahead, go ahead. Nah, when I was signing to him, that was a conversation I had with him. Like, when I first signed with him, because I'm like, man, this is Jay Prince. He got to be busy. He got to be doing all of these different things. And the first thing I really said to him, I'm like, yo, so in any situation, I'm going to be able to get you on the phone, right? Like, he say, man, listen, you're going to get me on the phone any time that you need to get me on the phone. I got you. I'm here for you. And Jay don't be sleeping like this.

55:26He can really get him on the phone anytime. He stood by that word 100 % since I met him. Like, anytime that I'm— And if he don't answer, he going to call me right back. I'm out of here, Jay. Two, three in the morning. Yeah. What's up, homie? Yeah. He's still up. Yeah. He's still up. Yeah, that's my dog right there, though. But you also in the management game now. Zay Quinn, Moses, Manny Chance. Yep. Why is it important for you to do that now? Is that something that you want to keep doing? Yeah, you know the difference with that and even with me being a manager, my thing is I'm very particular with who I manage or who I work with.

56:08And I just be one of the best for the people that I love. So me involving myself in the management part of their careers is more so like I got so much knowledge and understanding of the business and the sports that I can give to them. Now, I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that they, at the top of their game, come fight night. They doing everything they supposed to do to get to where they supposed to be. You just took Manny to go sport with Bam Rodriguez? Yeah, I just took Manny to sport with Bam. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was big for me. That was big for me because Manny was a young 'un coming up in the amateurs to where he always had his way.

56:52But now it's like he's turning, well, he's now a pro. And now it's a whole different world between the amateurs and the pros. And if you're used to the amateurs all the time, you have to be able to adjust to the pros. So my main thing with taking him to Sparta BAM was letting him go see the highest level of the sport and not be scared of it. I don't want you to be afraid of this. This is the highest level right here. Go look at it. See what you can learn from it and get better. And I appreciate Ben Rodriguez and Robert Garcia for even opening they gym and doing that for me because that was big.

57:32Bam Cole. Yeah, yeah. He Cole. He different. He's different. But I been knew he was different. I knew he was different when he was a kid. That little dude is... He make it look so easy. Man, he's special. He's special. There's things that he's doing that a lot of people just not doing. Even watching him, I was taking my notes. I'm sitting there taking my notes like, oh, I like this. I like this. When I got back to the gym, I went to work on that stuff. Nah, but just taking Manny out there was big for me because I wanted to elevate his game. man. Hopefully one day later on down the line they even may see each other again or something.

58:08But Manny gotta get himself in that type of position and it's a lot of hard work to get there so I'm gonna be right here along the process but Manny gotta go fight for himself. Put your boxing cap on for a minute man. The IQ real quick. I'm gonna ask you some quick fire questions. Who the best fighter in the world right now? Me. No question? No question. I think Ring Magazine got you number three behind Inouye and Usyk? I mean, that's politics. Okay, so you think you're number one? Hands down. I know him number one. For sure. You do like Usyk and Inouye, so what makes them two great? What do you like about them?

58:42Because you speak higher than them. I think the fact that they've been doing this for years and years, and they continue to be on top of their game. They've been around for so long, beating the top guys at every level. And for them to still continue to do that, it makes them as great as they are. Me versus you. in my prime. How you beat me? Talk to me, bro. How I beat you? Talk to me. I mean, honestly, it's crazy because it's like, you really was my favorite fighter growing up. What's up? So, some of the things that you do, I will be knowing. Like, even with this part, I'm going to be honest with you, with this part, I'm like, yo, this is so familiar.

59:26Like, I know, like, I just studied you for too long. So I think that would be my biggest advantage if we fought. Me just knowing like, okay, Drake really left-handed. So I really got to worry about his lead hand. His back hand going to be there. Like it's there, but it ain't. That lead hand is really what I got to kind of take away. So God he breaking down my stuff, man. And then you do the things that I do good. Like your feet, your inches, your distance. Man, it'll be a hell of a fight. and honestly, you're a hell of a fighter, bro. Appreciate you, bro. You versus Bud. Prime, prime, same weight class.

1:00:08See, that's different too, but once again, I study him too, but I think with Bud is like, I would try to outbox him. Like, I would try to outbox him and try to not make it a fight. I think that would be my game plan. Like, if we fought each other. Bud really liked to get in fights and he wanted to see who's stronger. You start doing his shoulders like this and start saying, Yeah, you in a fight right now. I would try to keep it as a boxing match as long as possible until I have to fight him back. Sugar Ray Robinson versus Floyd Mayweather. Don't get disrespectful. No, no. Floyd Mayweather. No question.

1:00:43Floyd Mayweather, no question. No question. Not even close. What do you mean when you say no question? Like Sugar Ray Robinson wouldn't be competitive? I don't think it would be a competitive fight. I don't. I said Sugar Ray Robinson. I heard you. Sugar Ray Robinson. Can I explain, though? That's what I'm asking you. Floyd Mayweather, right, he had different looks. So Floyd would have his hands up. He had his hands right here sometimes. He'd have it here. He'd have it here. Like, he had different looks. I feel like his game was way more evolved than Sugar Ray Robinson. A lot of times when you watch Sugar Ray Robinson, his hands was always right here in this position.

1:01:23Now, from an offensive standpoint, Sugar Ray Robinson would be hard to deal with Floyd Mayweather. But, like, from a defensive standpoint, and who could do more and who got better boxing IQ skills, to me, Floyd Mayweather was way ahead of Sugar Ray Robinson. Dang. I understand. I asked you. The question wasn't to me, so I got to leave it at that. What's the best young up-and-coming fighter right now? Best young up-and-coming fighter? Boy, you, like, really, like, he going to be like that. I don't want to be like that. Even somebody that's a contender right now, somebody that's like almost knocking on the door.

1:02:03I'll give you three of them. I already told you my two, Zay and Manny. Yep. But actually, I'm going to give you four. I like Breon. Breon, Graham, and Carmel Bowie. Carmel, yeah. Yeah, I think both of them fighters, they're very not basic, but they're fighters to where you can see their game still evolving. A lot of people don't feel like Kamala's getting better, but I honestly look at him and see he's still getting better. He's still improving. His gas tank is crazy. Breon got a real good punch behind his punches. I think All Alone fighters is going to be great fighters to come. What's the state of boxing right now?

1:02:42It look different than it used to. I think it's amazing. I think, like, you know what I hate nowadays? I feel like fans are just not appreciative. because if you see fans, they start talking about like, oh, man, boxing is dying and boxing is... Man, shut up. They been saying that. We getting the best fights that we have gotten in years because of Turkey. Like, if we being realistic, Turkey came in the game and he done made the biggest and best fights happen. Why can't we sit here and just appreciate it? Like, we watching Bud versus Canelo. We watching me versus Tia Fimo. We watching Beauvoir versus Betabee, which was a fight that should have been made years ago, but it's made now.

1:03:23And truthfully, I just think boxing is at a great space because now anybody fighting anybody. It's one of them times where if you really say that you like that, it's time now to improve it. Nine years in the game, bro, what's the biggest lesson you done learned from being in the game? It could be personal, it could be box X's and all. Nine years in, what's one of your biggest lessons that you got? Biggest lessons probably going to be for the youngest coming up is going to be them 8 ounces is a lot different than them 10 ounce amateur gloves. It's a whole different world. No head gear. Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest lessons that I learned as from back in the day till now.

1:04:07Because you're Olympics, you didn't have no head gear, huh? Nah, yeah, I didn't have no head gear. But with them sting, big fat. Like super puffy in the front. That. Them gloves ain't nothing like these pro gloves that we fighting in, so. What's the rest of your career look like the rest of the way? The rest of the way? I mean, me just coming in at 100 % and giving my best and just having no feel. I don't really got no feel. I used to have a feel like a losing. I used to have that, but now I don't have too much feel. I'm not scared. I know that if I go in there and give 100 % of myself, I'm hard to deal with for everybody.

1:04:47Anybody you name that's in or around my weight class, me at my best, they got a lot to deal with. So the rest of my career, just taking all the fights that people keep talking about, writing these names down, and then just crossing them all off my list as I beat them. And just proving that I'm the best in the world. Adrian Broner gave you a shout out the other day. Yeah. When you see sort of how AB is moving, he's not boxing no more, you know, like, what's your thoughts on that? You know, it's crazy. I got a different opinion than most people because, right, at the end of the day, nobody going to get him to stop drinking.

1:05:26Like, that ain't even... You don't think so? That's an Adrian Broner decision himself. Like, he got to have something with them. I just heard him say he took his first drink after he won his first world title. You can't say you can't bounce on that? All right, we'll finish what you were saying. So you don't think nobody going to, you don't think he going to? I mean, I don't think nobody could really stop him from doing what he want to do. But my thing is, what I really want to say is, I feel like we watch him, we don't watch him, right? When the camera's not around and he's doing everything that he's doing.

1:06:01We're not checking for him. Yeah. We're not seeing it. Everybody not concerned. But now that the camera's around and he's doing it while making money, he's making money in the process, I'm happy that he's in a situation where he could feed his family. That makes me happy. I want to see Adrian Brown make money and be happy and be good. For me now, I'm happy watching it. I mean, it's probably not all good, but it's AB. Like, that's who he is. Like, people can sit there and say that's who he been. He's made for streaming. Like, if we're going to be honest, like, his entertainment value, even as a boxer, I probably never even seen nobody more entertaining than Adrian Broner was in boxing history.

1:06:51Like, in boxing history, he might have been the most, for me, entertaining fighter outside the ring than anybody. So watching him on the streams, I'm happy for him. And I'm going to commend him and give him my blessing. So I just say, when you get a chance, please stop drinking. That's all I ask. Just please stop drinking, bro. That's it. We want you to be around for a long time. Yeah, sure. When you see the headlines with Floyd right now about the money issues, coming back, what do you think about stuff like that? What's your thoughts on that? You know, I try not to get in too much to that kind of stuff because, right, people could talk about, oh, Floyd broke and Floyd this.

1:07:34Man, even if, let's just say, coincidentally, Floyd broke. Floyd broke ain't like everybody else broke, bro. Floyd broke is a different type of broke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Floyd broke is our super rich at the end of the day. So now to see him come back fighting, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Maybe you know what I think my thing is with Floyd? I know him. So, like, me knowing him, I know that he just love boxing too much. He kind of like, like, he not even probably even going to ever say it that, like, how, what it is. But, like, me talking to him, like, I done sat on the phone with Floyd for hours.

1:08:17and in conversation I just realized like yo this dude is just he like in love with boxing like he's obsessed with boxing so like he probably just can't hang the gloves up he can't let it go he never really did he can't let it go he kept doing the exhibitions he never really did he'll take a break when you don't see him but then he back in the gym it's just crazy like thinking of Floyd being 50 having to go to the gym and spar three days a week, bro, that sounds crazy. I mean, it looked like he doing it well, though. Like, even when I watch the videos, I'm like, man, this don't look like no 50-year-old fighter to me.

1:09:00Like, it looked like a guy that's, I ain't going to say in his prom, but he looked like in his 40s. Floyd passed his prime is better than a lot of guys in their prom. That's the thing, because he just knows so much. Been on too many big stages, so that's not going to get him. You just wonder, like, is your body going to be there, bro? Is your legs going to be there the way they supposed to? For sure. You got to have that concern. But he's fighting Manny Pacquiao. So I'm good with that. Knowing Manny. Manny pretty old himself. I'm good with how it's going. What about, what if Floyd tell you he needs you for camp?

1:09:36You going? Yes. For Manny. Yes. But I wouldn't like, here's the thing, right? and I don't respect when Bill did this. Bill and them sparred Floyd and then they went on camera and they kind of said, like, how they beat Floyd up. And I don't respect that because at the end of the day, like, sparring is sparring, bro. Like, when you sparring with the greatest well past his prime, we not in there trying to have no, like, competition. to see who's better. I'm not trying to, like, even Floyd and me spar, right? I'm not trying to see who's better. I'm trying to, like, learn. Like, I'm trying to watch and see little things he do and what habits he got.

1:10:21I want to, oh, I might take that to the gym with me the next one. Even while you're in there with him. Yes. Yes, that's where I will be. And then when I get off camera, I'm not going to talk about it. I don't got nothing. That's the greatest. That's how I look at it. Like, you the greatest, bro. I can't, what I'm going to brag about sparring you and doing something to you when under the bright lights, you done... Did everything. Did everything, bro. You done beat everybody, bro. Nah, bro. Under the bright lights, you that guy. And in Spurn, I don't care what you is because I know where you're going to show up at.

1:10:54And that's what really matters. So that's how I look at it. What about Errol Spence? Errol Spence is back. Yeah. He's fighting Tim Zhu. Been on the last first fight since. He's fighting with 2023 with Bud. How you feeling about that? I think he's going to do good. I wish Earl the best. I hope Earl go in there and beat Tim Zhu up. I'm an Earl Spence fan. I was cool with Earl Spence, especially before that Bud fight a long time ago. He was a cool dude, so I'm aware of Earl Spence. I want Earl Spence to prosper. And that fight is over in Australia, too. Yeah. It's going to be interesting. I don't think Tim Zhu could beat Earl.

1:11:34Like, I know Earl is mentally tough. Earl is a dog when it comes to fighting. So I don't think Tim Zook will beat him. Oshaki Foster and Ray Ford, they fight tomorrow. How you see that fight going? This is real, like, personal. Like, this is real bad beef. Like, these guys really don't like each other. And I'm waiting to see a hell of a fight. I will be in the building, and I can't wait to see it. I think the beat got something to do with you, brother. I think it got something to do with you too. I think Oshaki Foster feels a way about you. He's purposely trying to, like, start something with me or, like, get on that with me.

1:12:17But I feel like this. This is how I look at it. I'm going to fight at the end of the day. I ain't never ran, been scared of nobody. I don't have that inside of me. So the more you keep talking is the more you're going to feel me, bro. So right now, Ray Savage got him. So I'm going to leave it to Ray Savage. I believe in Ray Savage. That's how I feel. But let's just say, miraculously, he did find a way. I answer phone calls. I answer phone calls. If you feel some type of way about me, I don't got no real. I do got a real issue with him because he a jealous type of dude. but if you feel some type of way about me let's go see under the bright lights you say you did this in sparring you did that cause that's where y 'all do got history though y 'all done been in the ring right that's where my main issue with him comes from my main issue comes from he get on the camera he don't have integrity like he don't he just lie like he will just say one part of the story and not explain the entire part of the story when he got on the camera he said uh he sparred me and he ran me out the gym.

1:13:30I'm like, me? I don't, where am I gonna run? I don't run. I don't do that. Matter of fact, if I recall correctly, when we did our sparring, the first time we sparred, he did good. I commend you. I'm out of shape. Mind you, during the time, I'm messing with my girl. So, I'm staying up late at night with her. Then I, they got to spar at 10 a.m. in their gym. They sparred at 10 a.m. So I go to sleep probably like 6, 7 in the morning. Got to wake up, go to Main Street Gym at 10 a.m. I sparred him. He do good. They got the gym hot as hell. I'm tired. He do good. I gas out a little bit. Now, fast forward.

1:14:11I want to say we wait a little bit of time. I get in training camp. I start getting ready for my fight. I'm getting ready for Felix Caraballo. and when I sparred up who now I'm like okay now I'm good like I'm good I got my sleep I'm good everything is like I'm in motion I'm in training camp now the sparring just turned completely different now I done I didn't I ain't even gonna tell what I did cause I'm gonna hold that until when it happened but when he get on camera he explain like oh we ran him out the gym and I did this in sparring but you didn't say the entire full part of the story. And that's what my problem is.

1:14:52And when you say you ran me out the gym, that's disrespectful to my character. Because my character don't do that. I finished my entire training camp in his gym after that. Matter of fact, I seen him come to the gym after that and sparred Keyshawn. I was there. Sparred that day too. So for me, it's like when you say you ran me, I'm not that type of dude. I don't run. I'm not scared of nobody. I don't, if you have, everybody done had good days on me in sparring before. I done sparred, matter of fact, I'll give you an example, prime example, and this is no lie. I sparred Joe at Gonzalez before we fought.

1:15:32He did very good in sparring. Very good. Had a great day. To the point where I tried to offer him some step-aside money because I was dating his sister at the time. When I offered him the step-aside money, he said no. I know why he said no because he felt like he was going to beat me. So if that's the case, we fight. Now I beat him up. It's like, it's easy work. It's nothing like the sparring. It's the bright lights. So like people kind of brag amongst like, oh, I did this. But then he also forgot like, I did that. So it's like, okay, bro. You feel me? Like, what are we talking about, bro? And when people don't got integrity and they go on that camera and they give you, like, lies, it just makes me look at you funny.

1:16:21So, I'm down. I'm with it. At the end of it, I'm with it. You seen how me and Bud went out the game. You know, you've been studying our career for a long time. How important is it for you to go out on top and, more importantly, to go out on your own turn? It's definitely important. But honestly, I look at both of y 'all careers and I be kind of like putting it on the scale of like, when do I want to go out? Do I want to go out like as early as you or as late as bud? And I'm like, ugh. I think truthfully though, when it stopped being fun is where I'm like, okay, I'll be done. Like, I ain't trying to be in this game.

1:17:04if I don't love it or have the passion for getting in the ring and going out there and fighting then I'll be done and yeah I would love to retire on top like that's my goal but I'm a risk taker so I I'm with whatever like if it makes sense and dollars make sense and we all let's get in the ring like I'm not I don't fear this I don't have that no more like I used to have it as a child but like as I done grew old like let's do it. Anybody, let's do it. And whatever comes with it, comes with it. So, um, I'm with it. I'm going to tell you what somebody told me, man, that, that, that already had walked the walk before, you know, probably like four or five years before I retired.

1:17:47I was asking him questions, like, man, how you know? How you going? He said, you just going to know. He said, everybody around you might not know, but you going to know, you going to start to feel it. And sometimes you start feeling it a couple of years before it's actually time. Like, man, something's shifting. So I think you're right, man. I think, you know, you just gonna feel it. Boxing is just gonna be a little bit harder. Yeah. You know, like it's hard, but it's gonna just gonna be a little bit harder. You know what scares me though? Floyd Mayweather scares me. You wanna know why he scared me so much?

1:18:16Cause like when I talk to him, he, to me, he be reminding me of me. Like when I really listen to him, like, oh man, like what the, this is like too much like deja vu and like i'm not trying to be boxing for like a long time hell nah i ain't with that like i love boxing like i love it to death i would never leave boxing i'll always be in or around the sport but i'm not trying to be boxing no you got to do the math right like so i retired at 33 but i had over 100 amateur fights yeah bud retired at 38 yeah he didn't have as many amateur fights you I don't know how many he had. I know he went to the nationals and stuff, but he ain't had that stretch into the Olympics.

1:19:02So it's just, it's tough. It ain't no set age, bro. I'm scared of that, dude. But fighting at 40 is crazy work. Because I see him, I swear, when I talk to him, I'm like, man, I talk to a lot of people. That's one dude that I'm like, he love boxing. Like, he love it. That's his life. So, yeah. I just pray that I don't, that my passion somehow I'll just get driven somewhere else with it. Like, stay within boxing, but just, like, the commentary or the coaching. Man, it's something to where I'm inside the sport and loving what I do, but also I'm not trying to just be risking my life for the rest of my life.

1:19:45Because you got a lot more life to live after the sport. For sure. But I was telling Jack today, man, it's 101 ways to not make it in this sport. There's landmines everywhere, bro. There's 101 ways to not make it. And, bro, you done made it, and you still rising, man. And it's a beautiful thing to see, bro. I appreciate you taking the time. I appreciate you. For the Art of War. You know how we coming, man. It's another episode of the Art of War, man. We out of here from Ace Town.

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