Virgil Hunter On The Day Andre Almost Lost Everything: “You’re Going To Go Downhill” | Part 1

25:41But you never gave up. So I knew the tenacity was there. I knew the drive was there. And I remember one particular session where you're fighting a pro. I think he was like 30-2 or something like that. I can't remember his name. And you guys was going at it. And his coach there, Serafine, said, do you want to stop? And you said, I'll stop when he stops, right? So I knew that that drive was there, that that was going to be hard to knock over and make you compromise the drive that you had. So you got the silver gloves, and the next big tournament is the J.O. So I remember my brother, he's a year older than me.

26:20So I think you took him to the jail. I took him to the jail. You took him to the jail, the Junior Olympics. Him and No Need To. Marquette, Michigan. Me and my dad was back home, so we calling every night. What happened? What happened? So he lost. But I remember you said something on the phone. You said, hey, man, this is the most violent tournament I have been to for y 'all's age group. I never been there. I was like, for real? And, man, that's put the fear of God at me that night. I remember I ran that night. you were standing at Hayward. And I ran down the street around Mission. Like, I was just kind of spooked.

26:55Like, man, he said, man, I'm seeing dudes get knocked out. I'm seeing dudes get clipped. I ended up fighting the next year at the J.O.'s. And that's the first time I ever been buzzed. Like, really, really visibly hurt. I remember I fought the dude. I forgot his name. He's from, like, Orange. Brown was his last name. Brown, but he's from, like, Orange, New Jersey. He was from Jersey, yeah. He was telling me, hey, man, he got a short left hook. You know, you got to stop pulling back. Make sure your hand up. Sure enough, man, dude hit me with a punch so short inside. Boom. My legs wobbled. I recovered.

27:24But that was like the first time that I really got buzzed in a fight. You know? And I ended up winning that. And then I went to Junior Olympic Worlds. I think Pueblo, Mexico or something like that. I won that. And I hadn't started getting in trouble yet. You know, I think that came a couple years later, man. But when did you first start noticing that some stuff was going on with me in terms of like, you know, being in the streets or cutting schools, smoking weed and stuff like that? Well, I didn't entertain it too much, you know, while we were together. Of course, you know, you moved and I knew that the environment where you was moving to was going to subject you to some things, the environment.

28:12So I started tripping a little bit before I even moved. Well, no, what I did was it was ineligible that you was going to move. And I think that you deserve to move at that time because, you know, it was with your mom. And I remember that, I don't know if you remember, we were sitting on the steps the night before you left. And I told you, I said, you're going to go downhill from here. I don't remember me saying that. I was mad too. Yeah, I said, you're going to go downhill from here. Because at that time, you're an honor roll student, going to school every day and things like that. But me having all those years in the probation department, I knew the enticements and I knew all the things that entail for a kid that's in that particular environment.

28:55So I was hoping that you wouldn't go to the street, but I was prepared. Because I told you, I said, no matter what happens, I'm going to be here for you. Right. But I was prepared for you to go to the street. So everything that I would hear coming from the streets and things like that, I wouldn't really react right away because I knew what type of kid you were. I knew that you would go to the line, but I knew you wouldn't cross the line and that you had something that you built that you couldn't deny. It wasn't no guesswork game. You knew you had ability at that time. Any coach in the world would have took you any coach in the world would have took you.

29:33so you had that to fall back on so that gave you a little cushioning to go out and explore and experiment you know so i knew the temptations was going to come because you hadn't gone through temptations and at that time with the the hip-hop game and then the the draw of oakland you know the oakland mystique the draw of it that you got to be part of this and you got to be part of that And if you whatever, right, whatever movement, whatever hood you in, you got to be down for that particular hood. If you're going to walk and talk and associate this hood, you got to be down for it. So but I had already had experience in those situations, so I knew how to handle those situations.

30:18But the good thing about it is every tournament you come back and train, stay with me and then you go back. I barely make that thing. I get in just enough shape to do my thing. Six, eight weeks, which is enough. And I disappear again. So at that time, I wasn't concerned about Andre the boxer. I was just concerned about Andre the man. But I needed an opening to really bring that into focus that, hey, you got to go in another direction. I needed an opening. That was the time to turn it around. Of course, you were going through some things and everything like that. And I constantly remind you, look, man, you're going to be sorry one day.

31:00You're going to look up and somebody's going to be in your weight class on a team that you knew couldn't beat you. So I would put these little things in your head. That's all. Just put something in your head because I knew you respected me. I knew you loved me and I knew you respected me. So I would put those things in your head. even on the drinking thing, when your grandmother called me and told me, oh, he's drinking, right?

31:28So I didn't call you and say, man, you drinking, you drinking, you doing this, you doing that. I didn't say that at all. I use a psychology that I learned over the years. Because you'd call me once a week, twice a week, you'd always call, checking what was going on. So I waited till you called. Hey, Virg, what's going on? I said, oh, Dre, I'm not doing too good, man. What's going on? I said, man, my friend is having so many problems with his son. What's happening? Man, he keeps his son is just drinking every day, and he's concerned. He can't stop him from drinking. I'm glad you're not doing that.

31:57I'm so glad you don't drink. I don't know what to do, right? So I played to your conscience. I remember that. And I would tell you. I'm glad you ain't drinking. I'll be on the phone like, what are you talking about, man? Yeah, because I knew you respected me, and I knew that I stood on principle. So that wasn't going to stop it But that was what was going to put a guilt trip on your mind Man, I'm disappointed If Virg really knew what I was doing He'd be disappointed He really believes in me You see what I'm saying? So psychology is so important On raising a kid and keeping them in the right direction And I'm just glad I had the battlefield and the battleground to be able to decipher all the right things that need to be said at the right time.

32:46Yeah. You know. Man, just take it back a little bit. So me making that move to my mama's house in North Oakland, you know, she had been in and out, you know. My dad was a functional addict for periods of time in his life. My mother was a full-blown addict. She started getting herself together, right? I'm living with y 'all, you and Millie. And then I'm like, man, I'm going to live with my mama. You know, I hadn't, I hadn't like, that was like the one thing that I never got to feel. Like a lot of my friends had their grandmother or their mother and not their father. Some of them had both, but a lot of them didn't.

33:25But they had their mama. And I'd be sitting there like, man, bro, your mama in here cooking food and like, you know, man. And I was super grateful, man, for you and Millie, you know, and what y 'all did, you know, and what y 'all was doing at that time. But like not having that, you know what I'm saying? It's always going to be a void there. So that's why I wanted to go to the flatlands in North Oakland and live with her. But you told me that. You was like, man, you're going to go down here. And I remember being like, because I want to go live with my mama. I didn't see it. I didn't see it. Because you were going to be given freedom.

33:56I wasn't going to have that structure that I had with my dad and with you. Yeah, you wasn't going to have the structure. But the truth is, I really didn't want that structure. No, you didn't. A lot of my life was going to school, getting up, going running, going to school, coming home, chilling for an hour or two to the gym, rinse and repeat. It's interesting, man. I was asking Roy this when I interviewed him.

34:24And I think, man, you talked a little bit about it at one point, but can you make a Roy Jones or Andre Ward without living that type of life? Because I had to give up a lot of my childhood, and I gave up a lot of trouble that I probably would have got in, too. But I had to sacrifice a lot. Now, 42, I'm not complaining. You know, I see a lot of my friends that had all the freedom and look like they could do whatever they want to. And I see what happened. But can you produce a great or an all time great athlete without having them with that type of structure? Well, I'm trying to think who's on top right now that didn't have structure.

35:09You know, whether it be Shakur, whether it be Keyshawn, whether it be Benavidez, whether it be some of the greats. if you look at them, they all had structure. And they all had something that at an early age, they knew they had something to fall back on. Now, of course, you get a kid like Mike Tyson to come up to Catskill at 15, 16 trouble. What happened? He got structure, right? So I don't think you can get to the top without structure. I don't see any long wolves out there. Now, you got some that don't want to follow the script, but in order to get world class, you have to have some sort of structure.

35:45But then there's another level after structure. There's following the script. Structure is very important. It is the foundation to success in any sport. I believe structure, discipline and structure. And even though you might get off the beaten path, that structure and discipline never leaves you. Because no matter what you were doing at that time, when you were going through your phases, no matter what you were doing, boxing never left your mind. That's structure. That's foundation. It never left your mind. That's familiar as well. There's been many a night that you might have been doing something, I guarantee, I never asked you this, but you could tell me now that you told yourself I'm blowing it.

36:23Oh, yeah, for sure. You see what I'm saying? Every time I would smoke some weed or smoke a black and mild or drink something, I'm like, bro, you wasn't raised like this. Yeah, you're blowing it. And you're blowing it because I'm tearing up my lungs, you know, my wind. Like, that's my thing in boxing is, man, I can go. So I went to the north. I went to North Oakland, man, and I did go downhill. just like you said. Mm-hmm. You know, and it didn't take long. You know, and it's crazy because it's like, I felt like I needed a break from boxing. Mm-hmm. You know, I've been doing this, I've been nine years old, and it was like, it was a grind, man, and it's like, in my young mind, I wanted freedom.

37:02I wanted to breathe, I needed to exhale. I don't wanna have to go to the gym. I don't wanna have to tell my friends I can't go. I'm trying to go to the party for once. I don't ever get the chance to go to the party. And you just don't understand what you're saying, but I took it from like just wanting more freedom to now I'm delving into street activity. You know, my mother was doing good for a while, but her being in that environment, right, the dope house right around the corner, it inevitably, them old demons start coming back on her. And I'm grateful for my mama, man, because she, you know, I get a lot of my fight from my mother, man, because she a fighter.

37:39But at that time, she started dibbling and dabbling. And I can always tell when, you know, my mom was struggling because the house started looking dirty. My mom was a neat freak until she not. And when, you know, the house started getting dirty and staying dirty, smelling different, I'm like, man, it's happening again. And so I seen that, me and her arguing and fighting a lot because I'm mad jamming her up about that. She, you always accusing me. I ain't doing nothing. I'm looking at her eyes. I know my mother. and her using drugs again means us not being together. I feel like it's just a matter of time.

38:18So I start using drugs and numbing and drinking a lot and then I start selling dope. I didn't know how to cook it up, but I had connections around the corner too. You know what I'm saying? I buy a bunch of rocks and go do my thing and it's like, I said this in the book too, that like it was crazy because I'm praying for my mother to get free from an active crack addiction on 55th and Market in them apartments, but I'm two blocks down serving somebody else's mother. That's crazy that my mindset had been there. And I remember God convicted me and just, I was like, man, you're a hypocrite. Like I'm praying for my mama, man, God, take this from her.

39:01Don't let her fall back into this. But I got dope in my mouth and I'm serving somebody else's mother. The weight was worth it. it positive affirmations and all the hard work the keys to your dream home from the vision board have been secured i see you a whole new future awaits your planning from top-notch decor but on a budget to the late night backyard summer cookouts life feels good now comes time to fill it with memories what will you host first maybe a movie night game night stories that make us laugh and space tournaments that make us cry first you need to get movers and new furniture And what about party favors?

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43:31More than 1 million small business owners across America trust the Hartford to help protect what they have built. Because no two businesses are alike, the Hartford makes it easy to get a customized quote for your business. The right coverage helps protect your livelihood. Protect what you've built. Get a quote today at thehartford.com slash small business. That's thehartford.com slash small business. But I will say this, though. The people that were praying for me, the prayers worked. You know, the things that you would say and other people would say, you know, God would send people. and you had an interesting style the way you would do it because a lot of people were calling you saying, man, I seen Drake, man, he ain't looking good, man.

44:17He, you know, he hanging with this person. I seen him. And you never, you never panicked, but you would always say the right thing at the right time and it would sit with me. And I'd be fighting with you on the phone like, man, hey brother, listen, I'm telling you, you ain't gonna get away with nothing. And I'd be mad. Cause I'm thinking you speaking something on me that's gonna happen. I'm like, man, I'm just trying to, you know, live my life, man. You just, man, just cause I ain't boxing, you gonna say that? You said, man, it's deeper than that. God got his hand on you. So I never felt comfortable being in the streets.

44:45I never felt comfortable. And you said something to me one time that really rocked me. You say, man, you out there playing. And I laughed and I'm like, I ain't playing. Somebody run up on me. I'm talking to you. You said, brother, listen, if you ain't if you ain't sell your soul to if you haven't sold your soul to the devil and you ready to kill or be killed right now, you play. then that's the type of treachery you dealing with out there. I knew deep down that that wasn't you. I wasn't trying to kill, man, and I for sure wasn't trying to be killed. Exactly. And you have to remember, where I worked, I had my ear to the street.

45:21I had kids in the neighborhood telling me everything. In that neighborhood, North Pole, coming in, being incarcerated, and they telling me everything that's going on. Because at that time, you had been in the newspapers, and they knew who you were. They knew what I did, right? They knew who I was before they would come. Man, you Mr. Hunter, huh? Yeah, man, I stay down there. Andre doing this and he doing that and he doing this. But I didn't look at it to condemn you. I just thank God that he was giving me the info, right? So I can plan, so I can maneuver, so I knew what to pray for, so I knew what to say, knew where to go, and just told God, you know, whatever help you have out there for, because I don't want to do this by myself.

46:05I know there's a team around you, even your best warriors, David, everybody else, they had a team around them. So, but he gave me the peace, but he gave me the info. And getting back to your structure, it's your structure that kept you from going over the line. The end there that, like you said, I'm getting ready to blow this, I'm going to blow that. That lets you know what you were talking about early on, people coming in and already have it. You see what I'm saying? already had that instinct, already had that drive. That drive was already there. The competitiveness was already there. You just needed a timeout.

46:44You just happened to be in the wrong place to take your timeouts. That's all. You just needed a timeout, what every kid does. Even today, when amateur coaches come to me and ask me for advice when the kid is 10 or 11 years old or 12 years old, I'm not ashamed to say some of the mistakes I think that I made. and that is when they're that age you got to give them a break because if you don't they're going to get a certain age and they're going to resent it and they're going to go off on their own and everything like that especially if there's no promise there if they're not getting the accolades that they're not you got to give them a break you just can't go 365 days seven days five six days a week you know you got to give them other alternatives let them play other sports They're not going to lose nothing.

47:30They're going to come back fresh because their mind is refreshed. It's going to help them. So, and I learned that from when you played football, right? When you played football, you came back fresh, you see? So I encourage all coaches to do that however they want to do it. Don't grind them because what you teach them, they're not going to lose it. They're not going to lose it. It's like a basketball player tears his Achilles. Once that knee is healed, his game is right back to where it was. It's the same thing in boxing. You're not going to lose it. So those were not tough times. They were times that I realized it was all part of the journey.

48:09You know, I never panicked. I never got discouraged. I never lost my stance on how I interacted with you. I always came to where I said what I felt. I never cowered. I never went down and just everything and let you set the tone because she wasn't ready to set the tone yet. So I know you needed that in your life. They have somebody that, hey, I'm going to disappoint this man, right? Somebody that if you're hiding stuff from me, you respect me. You see what I'm saying? If you're hiding stuff from me. But it's like I said, in this lifetime, it's such a spiritual journey. It's such a journey that when I look back, I marvel at how everything turned out because your faults now are somebody else's testimony.

48:55Somebody else's, your false became your testimony to help somebody else. And that's how it all works. You know, what I did bad gives me a testimony to stop you from doing it, right? Because God put me in a position where I am somebody. I've done a whole lot of things. I'm known all over the world. I'm just not somebody down the street trying to tell you what to do. I'm somebody that's been where you've been, and now I'm here, and I'm going to tell you everything that could befall you as you take this journey into the, going into the crime world, going into the dope world, going into anywhere. I can tell you what's going to happen to you.

49:32And during that period, it was probably like a two or three year run, man, where it's like, you know, I would go to, I would win. I never went to the Golden Glove Nationals. I would always win locally and then boom, I'd disappear. My first U.S. championship before I really went left was 2001. I missed 2002. I was catting off. And then 2003, I was still messing up. But you was like, man, you got to, you know, we getting close. You used to count on your hands when I was a kid. Like, man, we identified what Olympics I was going to be eligible for. Man, we're going to nine years, man, eight years, man, five years.

50:05You even had a notebook where you wrote in there, man, I'm going to be a preacher, commentator, a Hall of Famer, world champion. You wrote that in a notebook, and it's like during the period that I was going through, what I was going through is the opposite of what you were saying. Yeah. Actually, it was a diary I had, and I'm still looking for that diary today. I was just inspired. I think you were 15, 16 at the time. I was just inspired to write this, and I wrote in that diary, kid is special, don't know it yet. But this is what I see in this future. I see Olympic gold medalists in 2004. I see a middleweight champion that at some point other champions will be afraid to fight and I see a first ballot Hall of Famer and I also see a top broadcaster because of his intuition because of his insight because of his ability to comprehend I see all that in his future and I just left it out and you picked it up one day and read it and you said you write this verse and I said yeah I wrote it and put it back and then I don't know where it is I wish I could find it.

51:19I think it's in a container somewhere. But it was instilled in me. Because, you know, I understand that if you hadn't went to Washington, see, God got a plan. Right? And sometimes a plan is not what we expect as God-fearing people. We think it's got to be perfect. We think it's got to be thorn-free, weed-free, just a rosy path to wherever our destination is meant to be. But you'd have never met your wife. You see? You'd have never had that opportunity to meet your wife and develop a relationship to where you know, hey, I love her. This is who I want to marry. The boxing might have been another thing, but it might have been a whole other situation for you.

52:04But you met somebody who was the perfect complement for you. So that lets me know that it was always in the plan. Right? It was in the plan. And I remember when you came to me and said that you guys wanted to get married at an early age. And everybody was against it. But I told you, I said, look, because you guys live with me. All the ladies in the family. Who was this girl? Who was this girl that wanted to marry Dre? Yeah. They only see it from one side. They only see it from one side. The age part, right? Well, they looking at the age. You know, they look at it like, who is this girl trying to take our baby and, you know, get married?

52:40That's how the ladies look at it. But what they didn't realize is that you guys stayed with me, right? So I was able to watch over the years you guys interact. And I always saw you guys were never apart. Wherever you went, you had the kids with you. I watched how Tiffany was so great with the kids early in the morning, feeding them, bathing them, making sure all their needs are met. And you guys were inseparable. So to me, he was already married, right? So I told you, I said, if anybody could do it, you could do it. Don't let all these old people tell you we've got problems in their relationships and things like that.

53:13Don't let them kill your vibe. For real. You know, go ahead and get married. That's what you want to do. And you guys did. And look today. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's a blessing, man. You know, we'd be fighting and arguing, just not knowing how to deal with life, pressures of life, relationship at that level. You know, and you would sit us down and be like, look, you know, this is, because Tiffany didn't understand the magnitude of what I was chasing. Right. Like I told her, I was like, yeah, I'm, you know, I box. She was like, yeah, I play basketball. I'm like, nah, like I box. Like I'm the best in my weight class.

53:42She was like, oh, that's cool. And it wasn't until she moved to California and really was like, started asking you questions. Like, wait, so she went to one of my fights. She was like, oh, he won? Oh, that's cool. And then started really understanding. He was like, nah, he going to win a gold medal. You ain't got to worry about nothing. Right. No, one day. I told her. I said, T, if you understand what I'm telling you. and if you really look into what you got you got an ox and if you follow the script you'll never have to work a day in your life has she had a job today so just right just just raising the kids and holding the house down man which is what she wanted to do exactly i mean so you got the perfect situation in an you got the perfect wife out of an imperfect situation you see what i'm saying and I was challenged too because I always thought you would be siding with her I'm like why you already siding with her we got an argument or something but I was growing up I'm learning how to treat her the right way and you know because I didn't have I didn't have a lot of great examples I didn't have a lot of throughout my family line strong marriages you know like it was just relationships and it's like I seen dysfunction I seen disorder so that's what I know so when the pressure hit that's what you're gonna be dysfunction so you and Millie man y 'all would sit us down you would sit us down, man, and really open up the word, man.

55:05And I think that was the difference maker, you know? Your life wasn't perfect, but you never strayed from that word, though. No. Sometimes you have a glass of champagne and a cigarette in your hand, but you say, look, man, and you take us to the word. Yeah. And you'd be like, look, this is what God says that a husband is supposed to treat his wife. I didn't want you guys to hear what I needed to say. I wanted to hear what the word said so it would be true. It's not what I said. It's what the word says, right? And the first thing I told was to you, I said, it's the scripture that said, he who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord, right?

55:39So I used to go from that. I don't know, to this day, I just marvel at it. It wasn't even under my own understanding. It was just the understanding that God gave me for that particular moment to open my eyes to see what was going on in the battlefield that he gave me. So when that war, when your war came, I was able to assign you the proper weaponry and the proper strategy to deal with it, even though I hadn't done all that in my life. You know, so it was set aside, you know, and today I just marvel, you know. It's every time I think about it, it just enlightens me. It's just when I see you on TV, when I see all the things that you've accomplished, when I see all the beauty that your wife is doing and the kids raised up well and everything like that and happy, it's just a marvel.

56:31During that time when I was, you know, doing my thing, getting in trouble, you know, I said this when I interviewed Jay. You and James Prince start talking. I think I forgot what year it was. Maybe 2002 or 2003. So I was supposed to be, I wanted the local and the state Golden Gloves. Right. And then I just, I dipped on you. I was like, I'll be back first. And I just left. I was gone. Never showed up. But Jay and his team kept hearing about Ward, Ward, this kid Ward. They went to the, I think it was in Vegas. They went to the Golden Gloves and I wasn't there. And somehow he got your number. and y 'all started talking.

57:11What was that conversation like? This past weekend, like every other Sunday, you were on the court with the guys playing ball. Just a pickup game, living out your hoot dreams. No triple doubles, but a mean set of threes. In between buckets, one of the homies mentioned, he closed on a new crib? This is big. And while everyone's asking about the housewarming and making plans to celebrate, you're asking the real question. Like has he spoke to his State Farm agent yet about coverage? See, home ownership is one thing, but the right coverage is the real game changer. Even more than your last hot streak is how you protect your legacy.

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1:01:35At Baja Mar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like Baja Bay, our 15-acre lush tropical water park, interactive wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world-class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more. Visit Bahamar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Bahamar. Life spectacular. Well, actually, Antonio Leonard was the first person who called me and inquired about you and said, man, we've been hearing great things about this kid and this and that. I didn't know who Antonio was, you know, because at that time, Shelly Finkel was calling me.

1:02:16Cameron Duncan was calling me. The guy over in Europe, I can't think of his name, he was calling. Gary Shaw was leaving, you know, people like that. And I never was comfortable. When they would call, I never could sit down. You know, I'm just listening because it was all about money. It was all about what they thought. They thought that's what you wanted to hear. That's what I wanted to hear. You know, they're bringing the money up first, not the person, right? So I get a call from Antonio Leonard and he said, is it okay if I give you a number to Jay Prince? And I said, yeah, he'll give it to him.

1:02:51So when Jay called about 30 minutes later. Did you know who Jay was at that time? Yeah, I knew who he was from Floyd. I never met him at that time, but I knew exactly who he was. So when he called, it's Mr. Hunter. Yo, this is James Prince, right? This is James Prince. So after about two or three minutes of us filling out each other and everything like that, you know, trying to get the motives of one another and this and that and the other, I was able to sit down and listen to what he said and able to tell him. I said, you know what? If you can help me with this kid, because everything he was talking about, never about money.

1:03:29It was about family. It was about help. It was about his life. We talked about 30 minutes before I even said this to him. And, you know, he was telling me everything that he had been through and this and that and Floyd and this and that and Roy and all these things. So something just lightened me up, you know, where I knew that I wasn't going to make say the wrong thing or put myself in a position that I would regret later on. So I said, you know what, Jay, if you could help me with this kid, he'll win us a gold medal. And he said, yeah. I said, yeah, he'll win us a gold medal. I guarantee you he will.

1:04:04and he so that's when i gave him your number and i called you and i said man i talked to j prince he's interested in you but the beautiful thing is it was a godsend again because you came home and we went to houston right now you're able to see how people live right whips whips everything big houses everything like that then he put your idol on the phone to you roy right so his connections were able to bring another dimension into the whole thing. Then we started going to all the big fights. Yeah. So long before you fought in the Olympics, long before you turned pro, you'd been exposed to it. You saw what it could bring you.

1:04:47In the locker room. In the locker room. At Jay's Mansion, going to the nightclub of Floyd there, things like that. Because I was still, you know, I wasn't all the way right yet. No, you wasn't all the way right. I was still trying to get right. Right. I remember we was at a, I think it was Roy Jones, John Ruiz. And I had an all gold suit on, top hat. And we were staying in the same room. But I'm still, you know, I'm still drinking and stuff. So I don't know how I got it. I got like a personal bottle of Hennessy or something like that. So I think I'm being slick. So I got the personal bottle in my bag, tucked in some clothes.

1:05:24So I drink a little bit, tuck it, leave, go do my thing, come back, drink some, tuck it. One night I go in there, I look at my bag. I'm like, bro, where my bottle at? And you holding the ace card, you ain't saying it. I'm like, man, he got my bottle, bro. I didn't have to say nothing. I'm like, he got my bottle, man. I'm like, either he got it or the cleaners. I said, how do cleaners know it's in my bag? So I'm tripping. That's worse than somebody finding it getting mad at you because you ain't saying nothing. I'm like, what's up, bro? What's up? You acting like ain't nothing happening. and uh i think didn't you say something when we got back home or something like that back to the bay i don't remember but i knew you wasn't gonna question me because you knew you knew i had it right so it wasn't enough to be questioning you didn't want to hear me come back and say man why you got this boom boom boom i just that was my time because at that time i don't think you knew that i was aware of what was going on i didn't want you to know and you didn't want me to know But when I got that bottle, now you know I know, right?

1:06:26So that's all I had to leave it at. I didn't have to go no further. Now you know I know. So now the next move is on you, right? But at that time, it was a great time. Again, it's how things are maneuvered and steered into the proper place and alignments and how things are supposed to go. Jay was a blessing. He was a blessing because he cared about you genuinely. And I respected him. And he respected him. And he came to, he came to rescue you for different things that mattered when you needed a bigger vehicle for your kids. You didn't ask him for an Escalade with big rims on it. He said, I just need something for my family.

1:07:04He provided a nice pre-certified, I forget, Toyota expedition, things like that. So he was always there when you needed him. He was always there for me. But after Jay became involved and we began to team up, all the other stuff just began to disperse. It started going away and then you started locking in. You're going to focus because you had all the examples around you. God put you in that arena where you could see this could be me. Right? I could see it though. Right. When I was around Roy, the few times I was around Floyd, I just felt like I could do this. You could do this. I see myself here.

1:07:41But brushing shoulders with them and like, you know, that did something to me, man, especially at that time in my life, because I lost my dad. In 2002, man, my dad was here today, gone tomorrow, and I was already, you know, teetering, and that just took me over the line, man, and sort of gave me an excuse to continue to self-destruct, man, but, man, God is good, bro. I got in trouble one last time, man, and I was like that breaking point for me, and I just surrendered, man. I just, I told God, I was like, you know, I was like, man, I'm sorry. You know, I know I've been running from you. I know I've been, you know, just doing what I want to do, you know.

1:08:17But it's crazy, though, because you spend some years getting some bad habits, right? It don't go overnight. It can, but it took some time to get, like, the desire to want to smoke weed out of my system, the desire to want to drink out of my system. Never went to a program, never did none of that. Some people, that's the route. But for me, man, he just took it. And then with Jay being there and then Tiffany moving to the Bay, I felt like, what do I need to leave for? Like, I got a year and a half to try to make this happen. Well, and the major thing was you was taking out the environment. Yeah.

1:08:49See, if you'd have stayed in that environment, you don't know what you would have done. Yeah, but the environment was right down the street too. Right. But you were taking out the environment. It was down the street, but we were all centered in the house together. So, you know, even at the car wash, I had connections there. I had my ear to the street at the car wash. I had my ears to the street on 82nd and MacArthur on the corner, where I had kids that I had that was running those blocks and telling him, look, when he come down here, don't bubble, don't do nothing, don't give him nothing, and don't mess with him when he comes down here to this store.

1:09:17So everything was in order. But it's so important, and getting back to JP, it's so important, I think, and I'm just saying this for young fighters, to have many men in your life. Now, notice I said men. I didn't say fellas. I didn't say hanger-ons. I didn't say get the man that's gonna backstab your coach or backstab this or put anything that's negative in your parents head about what's going on not negativity but real men everybody needs more than one man in their life man it's a blessing cuz I lost my dad but then you was already playing a dual father role and you had to step up completely mm-hmm and you know God brought Jay and brought other people that you know he knew that I will respect and I would listen to.

1:10:02I ended up getting on the team, qualifying, and you know I fought at a higher weight class because I thought I was gonna grow. Should have been at 165 but I fought at 178. You know I'm in Athens, Greece. You somehow not only get there but you get front row tickets to the fight. We had just went to war too so security was, we had a Secret Service agent with us everywhere we went so what like just freedom to roam like it was it was strict. Yeah. And somehow some way, man, you got front row tickets to every fight. Well, I mean, that was an incredible blessing right there in itself because I didn't think I could make us at that time to war.

1:10:40And then when you look over the staying accommodations, they were real high, right? Just one bedroom was like$1 ,000 a week, two bedroom,$3 ,000 a week and things like that. The airlines and this and that. And then you had to think about food. And I'm like, man, it's going to kind of be kind of tough, you know, to getting over there at these prices. And one day I was just sitting in the den. And this voice came in my ear. It wasn't audible, but I could hear it. And it said to me, you don't think I can get you to Athens, Greece? And I started crying because I knew this voice. Right. I started crying like because I was so ashamed of the doubt that I had that I couldn't get there saying I couldn't not instead of looking at a way where I could.

1:11:30So when that happened. I immediately on my credit card, look for a plane ticket and I got one round trip for nine hundred dollars. I had to go through Germany to get to Greece and things like that. So I got the plane ticket. That was my first step out in faith. And so now I'm sitting there worrying about where to stay. And then all of a sudden, Charlotte, she used to work at a dental office. And her best friend was Greek. And her brother, who was the dentist, was Greek. And so I called her. I said, do you still talk to Mary Katsoulis? She said, yeah, I do. I said, well, can you give me the number?

1:12:07She said she still works at the dentist's office. So I called Mary Katsoulis, and she knew I was. And I said, I'm going to Athens, Greece, and I just wanted to talk to your brother about it to see if he had any recommendations for me. She said, well, George is out of town, but he'll be back tomorrow. I haven't called you. The next day, George calls me. And you were actually going to school with his son, right? He told me that. He said, look, I'm going to Greece a week out from the Olympics because I'm an honorary athlete in the Greek Olympics. The Greek Olympics is going to be a week before the regular Olympics.

1:12:40So he said when I get there I'll look around for you So he gets there and he calls me from Greece. He said how many? I want to come I said five. He said my friend has a flat in Kalimaki Athens Kalimaki which on the beach beach is one block away all the shops and everything He says in the summertime he owns a restaurant out on some island in Greece It's a creed or somewhere out there in the island And he goes out there and stays out there for the summer and he leases out his place He said, so you guys just pay$500 a piece a week. So that's three weeks. That's$1 ,500 plus$900. So that came to put$2 ,400, right?

1:13:21So that's way in the ballpark. So I said, okay. So got on, went to Greece. He took us all down on the bus lines and the transportation lines to see where we could get to the arena and things like that. And we went on. So when I get to the fight site the first night you were gonna fight I went up to the ticket booth and Once again, I'm gonna charge these tickets, right? But here comes the enemy's voice in my ear You gonna buy tickets for all four nights What if he lose you ain't gonna want to come to the fights so you gonna waste money buy one ticket at a time And I told lady I'm on four tickets in this arena right here for the event.

1:14:06As she was getting ready, as I was getting ready to hand her my credit card, I got a tap on my shoulder. And I turned around and it was Eric, the director of USA Boxing. He said, what are you doing? I said, I'm getting ready to buy tickets for the event. He said, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. He took me behind the booth, opened up his briefcase. He said, how many of you guys want to come? I said, well, there's five of us. He gave me front row tickets for all five of us for all four nights. So I didn't have to pay for the tickets. And then after he won the gold medal, George came to me, his friend who owned the flat.

1:14:38George had met a girl in Greece and he took her out to the restaurant. He told his friend, I'm bringing a girl to the restaurant. You know, give me a table. Treat me nice like I'm somebody this and that. He said when he gets to the restaurant, he has to stand in line. And he said he wouldn't even give me a complimentary bottle of wine. Right. He said, so look, when he comes and collects the money tomorrow, don't give him 500, give him 200. and tell him I said so, right? So when the guy comes, everybody gives him$200 a piece, and he's looking like, I said, George said so. So he knew right then, so he left.

1:15:09So the whole trip ends up costing me under$2 ,000. Just like that. And then God pays for the trip. I get home. The envelope comes from USA Boxing. I open it up. It's$10 ,000 in there for coaching you to a gold medal. So the whole trip was paid for a hand sum. that's how it worked. That's how the journey's been, man. It's crazy because moments like that, man, you call them memorials. You know what I'm saying? Like it's moments that you set up in your life, in your mind. So when you face new challenges, new giants, new stuff, you go back and say, man, it's the same God that got me through that. It's the same God that got me through that.

1:15:46Exactly. So that whole Olympics thing, me being in a weight class that I really wasn't supposed to be in. Exactly. I had never fought at that level. I fought, you know, Ireland and Mexico and Germany and Korea. Canada. But I'd never fought the Cubans and the Russians before. And I think ESPN had me possibly winning a bronze medal in that weight class. Though I hadn't lost since I was 14 years old. 12. It's a debate. I like 12 better. No, it was 12. I looked at it. Yeah, we'll go with 12. But I hadn't lost in a long time. And he's like, he probably going. And I get it because I, what was your thinking with being the number one unranked American for many years, but then not allowing me to go to certain tournaments or certain like world championships, never been to a world championship before the Olympics, never went to the Pan Am Games before the Olympics.

1:16:38That's my route, right? Don't USA Boxing, don't get mad at me. That was my route. So some of y 'all kids, y 'all got to decide what y 'all want to do with that. But you didn't want the overexposure. I have four years to make it happen, or really three years to make it happen. Why did you not let me go to certain tournaments on the way to the Olympics? Well, the year of the Olympics, after you had qualified it, and they came to me and they wanted to go, I think, Pakistan, different places like that. And I told them no. Oh, why? He could get the experience. I said, I never see nobody get an experience.

1:17:13Every time they go, they lose, you know? But it was one thing that I knew. I knew as a light heavyweight, even though you wasn't a full-fledged light heavyweight, He was really 170, 171 without cutting weight and just eating and stuff like that. I knew the weight class was 178. And the weight class was 178, right? But after I'm looking at these guys on TV, they're 6 '5", 6 '6", coming to 178. So I'm saying, Jesus, man, this means if he fights on a Monday, he got to make that weight that morning. Yeah. Right? Then he's gonna, after he's get two days off in between, I think you guys got two days off in between bouts, he's gonna eat.

1:17:54So he's gonna put on another five or six or seven. So his whole thing is fighting, putting on the weight, taking off the weight. Fighting, putting on the weight, taking off. That's gonna weaken you over a period of time, right? Especially in a week's tournament. So, but I knew that you had something that if they never saw, they wasn't gonna beat it in four or two minute rounds. Because they're not gonna have no tape on you. They're just not going to figure you out in four or two-minute rounds. I knew that, right? And then I knew that if you could eat and didn't have to worry about making weight, you could train harder, right?

1:18:25You're going to sleep better. You're not going to be stressed with the, oh, man, I want to eat, but I'm scared I'm going to gain three or four pounds, and I've got to take it off. It's constant work, constant stress. So I took that stress level off of you. I knew you were physically strong enough to beat guys 10 pounds heavier than you. And I told you, I said, they're not going to take you serious. because you're small until you get to the second fight. I said, and after that, they got to take you serious, but it's going to be too late. It's going to be too late because they're going to have to turn around and figure out how we going to beat this kid.

1:18:57It's too late. You don't have no tape on me. Once I beat the two-time world champion, Yvgeny McEnrenko from Russia, they knew what time it was. They knew what time it was. I wasn't supposed to beat him. Oh, even Clemente Russo because he came back to the next Olympics and won. But Yvgeny, though, he was the one. He was the two-time world champion. 6 '6 or something like that. He was the one. So when I beat him, they said, who is this kid from the United States of America? And, you know, the rest is history, man. We won a gold medal, man. And it's like, I was a crazy faith builder for me because we had talked about it.

1:19:30You had talked about it. And it was a lot of stuff God was doing in Athens, Greece that just confirmations that we was there for a reason. And it's crazy that I'm the last male to win a gold medal since 2004. and it's bittersweet. You know, on one hand, it's like, it's cool, but like, that's supposed to be broken, man. You know, like given the talent and stuff that we have here and obviously, Claressa Shields hasn't done her thing, but I'm saying as a male, we got to break that. Yeah. But that's a long time. That's what, 22 years? Well, I think one way to break it is, is USA boxing. The European countries, they 25 and 26 years old fighting amateur.

1:20:09Yep. But they get compensated for that, so they don't have any incentive to turn pro too early because they're getting a steady check from the state. They might get a flat from the state, a car from the state. They get everything. So their needs are met. So they don't have no, that's guaranteed money. That's not like I got, well, when are you going to give me a fight date? Or when I get a fight date? That's guaranteed money every month. That's medical. That's every, all your needs are met. So they have incentive to stay longer. That's why you only see maybe the cream of the crop. Every one or two come out of those regions and get into the pro game.

1:20:40You don't see many of them go into the pro game because they get well compensated. in the amateur game. If the USA Boxing realizes that they need an NIL. They need an NIL program, right? They get paid. They get paid, but they need to up the pay. Yeah, I think they need to up the pay, and I think, and I've been saying this for the longest time, and for whatever reason, USA Boxing just keeps plugging their ears. Yeah. USA Boxing needs to have an open door with alumni. Mm-hmm. We talk to these kids on social. We do video calls with them off to the side, but it's like we beg to get into the program to influence these kids, to encourage these kids, to let them know, hey, man, I did it.

1:21:20You can do it. Nobody's trying to take away from the head coach. The message is still the same. Whatever your head coach, we're going to implement the same message. But there's nothing like brushing shoulders with somebody who's already walked the path that you walked, and they can reach out and touch you and say, hey, man, man, I appreciate you coming through. You can't quantify what that does for a young athlete that's trying to get where you got. But it's like they just want to keep them to themselves. You got to beg to get in there. That's one of the biggest mistakes. Cubans don't do it. The Russians don't do it.

1:21:53All the previous champions, they're around the program. So they get to see, oh, that's Felix Savone. Or that's, you know, whoever. Right? They get to see that. Man, that's so-and-so. Man, he won two gold medals in a world championship. shit. And they get to brush shoulders with them and they get to get advice from them and be around them. You can't quantify what that's going to do for those athletes. I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that they make is not allowing the alumni to come back. We only had one guy come back and that was Andrew Mayner. And I appreciated him coming because he was in my weight class.

1:22:23He went to go and medal in 88. David Reed. David Reed because he was with Al Mitchell. But we love being around them dudes like, man, tell me something, man. Man, I'm getting ready to go to these Olympics. You don't know what it's like till you get there. Well, you know, I never aspired to be a USA boxing coach because I saw early on it was cliquish. And that's not to put nobody down. I'm not going to say no names or anything. It doesn't mean that they're a bad person. But the threat of somebody coming in, maybe doing it better than you did it, that's the threat, right? Instead of realizing it's not about me as an individual, it's about a team, okay?

1:22:59Six sets of eyes is better than one set, right? But that six sets of eyes has got to be on the up. You can't come in with an agenda, a negative agenda. You can't come in criticizing. You got to come in with your eyes and be a team worker, an asset. How can I help? What can I do this? Hey coach, you know what? If he just did this right here, his right hand would land better. And the coach could look at this guy and say, man, he's knocked out a lot of guys with his right hand, so he know what he's talking about. Okay. Guy comes and has been in the pros knocking you out with left hooks. If he say, hey, coach, if he throws his hook this way or, you know, maybe this way or get it off this way, it'll be better.

1:23:34You're going to listen to him, right? But once you get this salary and this team has been given to you and you got a couple of coaches up under you, you don't want to get off that pedestal without realizing it takes a team to keep you on the pedestal. No great man is great without a team. It takes a village to also raise these young. I'll give you an example. So they just had the Youth Under 19 World Championship for the girls and the guys. And something that I know because I was trained this way and I did it, the body language for a lot of those athletes, some of them lost because of body language.

1:24:10You saw fatigue set in, they falling over their feet, they holding, the referee has to warn them. That's giving the opponent some energy and some, you know, hey, man, I'm tired too, But I see you more tired than me and it's also for a judge who's trying to figure out who's winning this round They gonna go with the person that looks the freshest You're making his job easy, but I learned that being at the highest level as an amateur The Cubans never break form. Mm-mm the Russians never break form They even when they tired they look like they're not even when they not in control They still got their stance.

1:24:41They still look like they they always look like they in control That's something that like somebody who's done it can implement to them kids say hey get your body language together Don't lean over the ropes in between the rounds. The Cubans don't even sit down in between rounds. How is that for body language? But it's stuff like that, that if you don't have guys who did it, those are key things that like that seem small that can be the difference between a win and a loss. Exactly. Stuff like that, body language. Like you're falling over your feet. You look fatigued. Don't look fatigued, but it starts in the gym though.

1:25:14Hey, don't put your hands on your knees. Hey, don't lean on the ropes in between rounds. Don't do that. That's a standard. The other countries that's winning, they do it. And the other countries are so involved in technical stuff. Technical ability really wins amateur matches at that level in that short duration of fighting. So if you're more technically sound and you're more technically competitive, you can be the more talented kid who's not that sound or not so sure of himself and that's why he'll fatigue and have body language because the mystique of the Russians, the mystique of the Ukrainians, the The mystique of the Cubans, the reputation, they're fighting the names.

1:25:50They're fighting the country's names. That's what they always say. I mean, you fight the Cuban. Yeah, you fight the Cuban. You fight the Russian, this and that and the other. So you're already self-defeated before you even get there. But I think what the kids have got to understand is in this game, all of them need to understand that when your mother and father got together in an act of intimacy, that lets you know you was chosen before the foundations of time for such a time as this. So never get discouraged. and we could build a great amateur team, but you have to have the financial support.

1:26:19You have to have the coach's support. You have to look at it from a team perspective, but you also have to respect every coach who has brought a national champion to that level. Every coach that has developed a kid that is qualified for that team, that coach should be there, you see, because he knows his kid more than anything else. I don't know why the USA Boxing does not put a financial package together for every weight class, your coach is coming to work the corner with me. I'm the head coach, but I need your coach here, too, because he's going to see things that he's seen for years that I only see in one camp.

1:26:52Well, that's what my head coach did really good, man, Bashir Abdullah. He put his ego to the side, and he stayed in contact with you for the year or whatever that he had me before we went to the Olympics, and he said, man, I need to know this kid. You said, hey, he's going to overtrain. You got to pull him back. Hey, man, he's going to want to do more. Don't let him. Hey man, watch his way because his way to drop that type of stuff right there. You can't you can't put a price Exactly that type of information about these athletes I said he's gonna be number one in every single run the team do yeah We're gonna be number one.

1:27:22He ain't gonna settle for number two, but Bashir was a blessing Because he did communicate with me and the most important thing I told him was don't coach you Just let you be who you're gonna be but if you want to type of course you can say something But just, I said, because he's going to improvise. He's going to do whatever it is, whatever it takes to win. That's what he's going to do. I didn't say nothing to you about retirement. You was the last person I called, man. Because I just, it was tough. There's days, even today, where I feel bad. I feel bad because we had a system, we had a program.

1:27:59And just that one decision shook everything up.

1:28:24We'll see you next time.

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