Zab Judah: Don King’s $250K Gucci Bag, Meeting Mike Tyson at 8 & The Kostya Tszyu Blow Up

22:23Like, we're going to have to get it on. We got to rumble. So the first time, it's kind of frightening. You know what I'm saying? The only thing that you locked on is your training. You're like, all right, I worked hard for this moment, and y 'all not going to beat me. And once you win it, I would probably say my third time, I was cocky. I came into the room. I said, I don't know why y 'all here for. You told me? Yeah, I told everybody, I don't know why y 'all here for. Y 'all already know who going to take this. You know what I'm saying? So either you can go up or you can go down. You know what I'm saying?

22:50Take your choice now. But whoever get locked in with me, y 'all already know how it's going to turn out. You know what I'm saying? It's just a New York thing. New York dudes popping. That's that New York stuff. I may think that, but I ain't going to pop that. But y 'all pop that. New York going to pop it. They going to let you know out the gate who you is, where they from. I'm from Brooklyn. And you know what I mean? Because you got all five boroughs into the tournament. So you're like, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm from Brownsville. And ain't nobody going to beat me. How y 'all look at upstate New York?

23:18Is that New York? Do y 'all look at that like New York? That's like country. Y 'all don't consider that New York? I mean, it is. I'm saying like, do y 'all, if you from the city, from one of them boroughs, do you consider upstate as? No, no. If you from the city, no. Upstate is not it. No, no. You like, I mean, that's not us. So what are they supposed to say? If he from upstate New York, where you from? Where are you supposed to say? Are you from upstate? Say that. I'm from upstate New York. Don't say. So they can't say New York? No, I'm not from the boroughs. I'm not from the city. You know what I'm saying?

23:50Like Brooklyn, we call Brooklyn the town. Yeah. Yo, where you from the town? All right, cool. Like, you know, that's a New York lingo. ain't from the town, we don't look at you like... Y 'all don't claim it like that? Because it's different. Dre Dre, we came up with projects. Project buildings and poverty and... Not the country. Country, they got land and houses and, you know what I'm saying, different structures. You can get low up there. Yeah. You can come to see, you know, do some stuff and get low in your crib. You know, you can't get low in the hood. You cannot... Where you going? Back to your apartment?

24:19Yeah. And everybody know you up there, too. We know you up... We standing right outside your building waiting for you. He got to come back outside. His mama got to come out. Uncle somebody got to come out. One of the brothers got to come out. We know what's going on. We're going to sit here and wait. Dang, if y 'all from upstate New York, man, I don't know what to tell you. I was just wondering because, you know, different things for different cities and states. But I just wanted to know. Yeah, I'm just saying. I mean, no disrespect to them. I know what you mean. I got a lot of respect for them.

24:43You know what I'm saying? Albany. You know what I'm saying? Binghamton. You know what I'm saying? They turn up. You know what I'm saying? A lot of the city guys, they go upstate and hustle and do all that. They go get money and all that. But it's not the same. It ain't the same. Man, I seen y 'all, the 96 class. Oakland, California. Henry J. Kaiser Center. Olympic Trials. Remember that? Yeah. What was that, 96? I was 12 years old. And I've been watching y 'all, like, you know, tournaments and stuff. I've been hearing about y 'all, Zab and Floyd and Terrence Caughton and different people. Sometimes y 'all have dual meets in different places.

25:22I think I went and seen USA vs. Ireland and San Jose, which is a city not far from me. Yeah, I won that. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. But, dude, that Olympic trials was crazy. I mean, I'm just looking at y 'all like... I know you was an Olympian, too, J.B. Dre. We had the LST. Bro, but I'm saying even that trials, you know what I mean? Heavy hitters was in that. That was crazy. I fought Kamasha Jr. Did you? Yeah, in the finals. I beat Kamasha, yeah. That's crazy. So that was the year that I felt that it kind of was getting kind of funny on me. Because that was the first year they started the box-offs.

26:01Remember that? That's the first year they started the box-offs. So that was the trials in Oakland. Right. And then the box-offs were where? What city? The box-off was in... It was a couple months later or something? Yeah, a couple months later in a different city. I won the trials. So I'm figuring, we're Olympians. We're Olympians, we're the team. They said, oh, nah, now you got to do this new thing, the box-off. You got to box-off the winner. I mean, the win and the loser that fought, they got to fight again. So that's when I had to fight my guy again, and he won, and I was an alternate. Man, that was crazy, man.

26:31I mean, that did so much for me. Just like you said to Mike Tyson. I beat Ishe Smith. Yeah, Ishe. Yeah, I fought Ishe. I fought Camacho Jr. I remember Fernando Vargas. He had all these, like, his whole family was there. They had the rags and the bandanas. They heckin' they. I was a beast back then. But I remember seeing like, why does he have so many people with him? They was lit. Yeah, you're lit. And then I seen Floyd, and that was a crazy Olympic trial, but I left there like, man, I really wanna do this. Cause I had just started boxing a couple years before that. And man, that was crazy to have that in my backyard.

27:10When did you and Floyd first start linking?

27:16We was young. It was before the Olympics. So actually me, Floyd, and Zaire Rahim. I remember Zaire. Zaire, yeah, that was our guy. Like, you know what I'm saying? Matter of fact, me and Zaire linked up first because he from Philly. Philly, yeah. So we linked up first and then he was like, yo, I got to introduce you to the homie from Detroit. Floyd. And I'm like, okay, what's up? You know, coming from New York, we had that. You know, like, what? How much you weigh? Now at the time, all three of us was in different weight classes. They was all smaller than me. I was the heaviest, like 139. Floyd was like 25.

27:47Flo was at 125 and Zayat was at 119. Oh, 19, okay. And Zayat was 119. So that's what made us cool. You know what I'm saying? Because we was nowhere near each other. We had no plans on fighting each other. So we was brothers. You know what I'm saying? He was from Philly. He was from Michigan. And I was from New York. And we was linked up and he just was kicking it. Yeah. When you turned pro, who did you turn pro with initially? I turned pro with Main Events. Okay. With Lil Duva. With Duva. With Duva. But did he start training you right away? It was funny because in my first Golden Gloves, 1993, when I won the Golden Gloves, you know, I was sitting upstairs with my gloves.

28:26After the fight, Duva walks in the room. At this time, we know who Duva was. Duva was big because he had the whole 84 team, Pernell Whitaker, Melody Taylor, Holyfield. So when he walked in, I was like, oh, Duva. And he came right to me, like, how you know how to fight like that? And I said, you know, my father, like that. And he said, you remind me of Pernell Whitaker. And I was like, what? I said, yeah, that's my favorite fighter. I know everything about him. X, Y, and Z. He said, how would you like to come to camp and train and spar with Pernell Whitaker? And I'm like, I was 16 years old. So I'm like, spar and train with Pernell Whitaker.

29:01Bro, I can't do nothing with no Pernell. He said, no, no, no. You can just get in there. You're going to learn some things. You're going to be doing this and doing that. I said, I looked at my pilot. I was like, yeah, I would love to. Two weeks later, Dre, I was on the plane. in Virginia Beach, North 4th, Virginia. I was 16 years old and I was training and sparring Pernell Whitaker. The first three days, so, you know, at this point, I'm thinking, Pernell Whitaker brought me to his training camp. I don't know. I don't know how this go. Pernell Whitaker want to meet me, Pernell Whitaker. For the first three days, I never see Pernell Whitaker.

29:33I see Ronnie Shields. I see Duva. I see other fighters that's there in the professional rinks. I never see Pernell Whitaker. On the third day, he walked in. So I'm like, oh, Pernell, you know, he flew me here. He went to see me. He walked in the gym. He didn't know who I was. He didn't know nothing about me. Nothing, nothing. I mean, now I know Duva brought me down there to show Pernell the young guy coming up. Pernell walked in, so I'm thinking he's going to come to me like, yo, Zach, what's up? None of that. He walked in the gym. He looked at me like, just threw it head and out. Went in there, got changed up, came back.

30:08So Ronnie, you know, Ronnie, Ronnie Shields with the trainer, He said, you know, Pete, that's, you know, Judah's son, because they knew my pops. You know what I'm saying? He said, yo, that's Judah's son. He said, okay, that's Judah's son. He said, what's up, what's up, what's up, what's up, like that? They said, they said he fight like you, like that. He, you know, he, yeah, all right, whatever. You know what I'm saying? You know how Pennell was, Pennell was super cocky. Super cocky, super like, yeah, like that. So, long story short, he starts sparring some guys. They threw me in on the tail end, like the last two rounds.

30:38So I get in there and I'm trying to hit him. He doing all this. And I'm like, what the? Is this? Can you really do this? I'm like, why is he moving like this? You know what I'm saying? He said, can he do this? Yeah, yeah. Can you really do this? And, you know, he pulled it off. He got it done. You ain't touch him at all? Nah, I didn't. Nah, there's no cap. I ain't really do nothing wrong. But whatever I did, he liked it. He was impressed with what, you know what I'm saying, how I held my own. He said, I like him. I stayed, and I learned from that day forward. And I became like, this was Brunel Whitaker.

31:15I was going to ask you, was he somebody that you... No, he was somebody. He took me on as a... as like a... as like an uncle-father figure. He took me on. I mean, he knew my pops and everything like that, but he took me on my first professional fight. I was the co-main event to Brunel Whitaker. Oh, that's huge. Yeah, yeah. I was the co-main event on HBO. That's huge. So I was, you know, and that was at 18 years old. So from 16 over to 18, I was with Pernell. Even in the Amateurs. So I'm sparring with Mark Breland. I'm sparring with everybody you can do. To a guy, the older guy. And then going back to the Amateurs tournaments.

31:51That's why I was so advanced. You know what I mean? That's a crazy lineup. Some of the dudes you was around. If you just take Mike. Burning Forest. You're burning. Everybody. If you just take Pernell and Mike. Yeah. So wait, Mike. So being with Mike was, you know, I didn't, I knew Mike from Brownsville, but we didn't really have no really in the gym engagements yet. First was with Pernail Whitaker. And then after Pernail Whitaker, I went with King and then Mike came home from jail. Then that's when I was on all the Tyson cuts. Man, that's heavy, bro. When you first came out, when I look at your earlier fights, see a lot of speed, you know, just, you could do it all.

32:29And a lot of power. And it wasn't just in the left hand. It was in both. It was in both hands, too. What would you say your first welcome to the pro game moment was like? That moment where you said, oh, this is different. I would say 15-0 when I got Mickey Ward. That body shot, Jerry. Yes, sir. That body shot, Jerry. That was a fight that we anticipated, a fight that a lot of people told us don't take. A lot of people said - At that point. At that point, don't take this fight. I was 15-0. He was 34 and one. And he done had grueling fights. He was a grown man. Still dangerous, though. Super dangerous.

33:11This is before the Arturo Gatti fights and all that. This is way before that. This is before all that. You know what I'm saying? And they said, nah, don't mess with this Irish guy right here. And I'm like, what? And then my father was super cocky. What? It's nothing. Man, we're going to walk through this kid. It's nothing. You know what I'm saying? It's nothing. And I'm like, all right. If Pop say we're going to walk through him, That's exactly what we're going to do. And we trained like that. We trained for that moment. We trained for that situation, and we got it done. But it wasn't easy. I thought you almost had him out, like, in the second round.

33:42Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bing, bing, bing. He going, but his recuperative power was just crazy. He was Irish. He was tough. He like, nah, young buck, you're going to have to do more than that. What did you learn about yourself in that fight? I learned that I had will, that I was made for this. because I finally got, I mean, I already had tons of experience with Pernaut Whitaker. I had tons of experience with, with, with Spawn with Mark Brewer and Spawn with Melody Taylor, Spawn with all of the, Arturo Gatti, Spawn with all of these guys already. So when I got to Mickey Ward, I kind of was anticipating, but that body, that liver shot that he hit me with, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was different.

34:23That was different. That was different. The body shot, you get hit with a good head shot, it's tough. You gotta shake it off. You get hit with a good body shot, well, you reassess your whole life. Like, why am I doing this? What is it? How did I get in here? Who chose boxing? You get hit with a good body shot? Oh, yeah, it's tough, man. And that was even the grueling point. The grueling point was after the body shot. I think it happened like the seventh, eighth round. I went to the corner. So you know how the camera, like, right in your face. So, you know, pops right here talking to me. I'm trying to tell him, like, I think he put one ribs.

34:56He's like, what? I think you broke my ribs. He said, use the other side. He grabbed me, Dre, picked me up, and pushed me back out there. What do you mean, use the other side? I gotta use my whole... That's exactly what I was thinking in my head. Wait, what did this man... I can't use half my body. What this man just said to me? It's your father. It's your father. So I'm looking... I ain't gonna front, Dre. At that moment, I was looking for sympathy. I was looking for sympathy. I thought maybe he could give me a timeout. He could do something to slow it down. You know what I'm saying? I said, I'm hurt.

35:30I'm hurt. I might not be. My breathing is funny. I'm trying to tell him, I think he broke my ribs. I'm like, you know what I'm saying? Use the other side. He said, use the other side. Grab me up and push me back out there. And I said, and that's the moment where I had to figure out life, Dre. I had to figure out did I really want this or did I just want to just give it up and move on to something else. Yeah. Probably about, you know, roughly around a year and a half after that, you had your first title fight against Jan Bergman. And you stopped him in the fourth round, but you went down in the second round.

36:09What was that experience like? What were you thinking when you went down that early in your career? Just being too cocky. Just being flamboyant, dropping my hands, doing something my dad told me don't do. You know what I'm saying? Just getting in and having a great first round. Having a great, powerful first round. Feeling his power. You know how the first round you really feel. You know, because you and the guy done talk. I talk, I talk. You watch this. You watch him. He watch you. Now in the first round, show me. He ain't got nothing. I'm controlling it. I got this. Now I'm walking to him, dropping my hand.

36:43I'm playing. I'm doing it. I'm being cute. Boom, hit me with a hook. It's a good shot, too. I think it was like a half hook, half hook. It's a good shot, too. Boom, hit me. I went down. But in my mind, I was like, I got up like, this is my first time ever. I said, oh, for real? Because that was the first time that I ever went. I mean, I was more embarrassed. I was embarrassed. I jumped up, but I wasn't hurt. And then that just turned on an animal. It's your first world title. You still living in New York at this time? Yeah, I was still living in New York. How you moving at this point? I'm young.

37:17We got a lot of money. That's what I'm saying. How you moving at this point? We got a lot of money. I got the brothers with me. I got my team with me. You know what I'm saying? You know, at the time, I just bought a, this is when the S500 came out. Remember, it went from 500 Mercedes to the S500. This is when the first 500 came out. I bought an Aspen Green thing. I had the Caddy, you know, when the new Cadillac Trust came out with the OnStar. This is the first one. You know what I'm saying? I got the first Caddy with the OnStar. We back-to-back riding. You know what I'm saying? I got, you know, brothers in one, everybody in the other one.

37:53We move up and down, you know, because we had drove to Connecticut, because we fought in Connecticut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we drove up to Connecticut, did the fight. It was crazy. Yeah. And, I mean, yeah, I was moving real cocky, Dre. Real cocky. I'm like, it's my first world title. I'm going to take it. Like, I kind of knew it. I kind of felt it. Like, I'm going to go take it. So that's why when I got knocked down, I was embarrassed, Dre. I was like, oh, what? He dropped me? Mm-mm-mm-mm. I'm going to break this boy apart. No, no, no. I'm going to break him apart. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I was thinking.

38:26So if you watch the fight with the tenacity that I had and the aggressiveness of how I approached the fight, I went at him hardcore. Yeah. It was no mercy. When did the Costa Zoo fight start being talked about and how aware of him were you? I think Sean Bay Mitchell. Sean Bay Mitchell had fought him. He beat Sean Bay. And, you know, Sean Bay was from D.C. So I kind of, you know, we was kind of familiar. we familiar with each other and uh yeah this kasuzuka pop up and he's like you know he's you know he's rushing he's this he's tough and that you know but when i watched him he was like a boy he was straight up i was like that's an easy fight oh you said that yeah yeah yeah so you what the the the accuracy yeah the accuracy the power that right hand that didn't concern you because he didn't really have it like that right he wasn't really knocking guys out with one punch from watching.

39:20It's not in the fight. This is watching. For me watching him, I'm like, you know, he was, he had a Russian style. You know what I'm saying? Compared to American style, they look straight up. They straight up and down. Arm is out here. You know, I was flicked. I was flicked with the, you know, I had to put in there where they could move and stuff like that. So I'm like, that doesn't impress me. This is going to be a very easy fight. I go in there, you know, just to go back to the fight. First round, dominate. First round, easy. I blow my... You heard him. I blew him out the water first round. He was holding me.

39:50You heard him out there. I think you hit him with like two straight lefts, overhand lefts at certain points in that round where he had to hold. He grabbed me. He was strong. He was strong. He grabbed me. You know, when a guy grab you like that, you know you hit him. I'm like, I got him. He did one of these. Both hands. Both hands. Grabbed me tight. So I said, oh, I got him. I got him. But you did give up a lot of energy in that first round. Looking back at that first round, do you think you gave up too much energy trying to get him out of there? I gave up. Now going back to my fight, If you watch how I fought, I always give up big first rounds.

40:21Okay. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, Mike told me when I was younger, he said, if a guy can't make it, he said, try him in the first round. You never know. You can get him out of there. You know what I'm saying? Guys, sometimes they're not warmed up enough. They're not ready to go yet. You know what I'm saying? Guys are still nervous in the first round. And if I crack them good enough, I can get them out of there. You know what I'm saying? I got a bunch of first round knockouts. You know what I'm saying? So I said, try him early in the first round. You know what I'm saying? I threw a lot of shots.

40:45I get back to the corner. My dad told me, I said, it's easy. I'm going to knock him out. He said, just stay relaxed. And just stay, you know, just, you know, don't get cocky, dad. Relax. Just box. Stick to the game plan. I went off cue. If you watch the first round and the second round, it's two different fighters. Two different fights. The first round, I was taking it to him. I was aggressive. I was flipping the countering, flipping the moving, hands up. Very disciplined. Second round, hands down, playing, showboy. and he caught me with the shot. He caught me with the shot. I go down. Boom. I hit the floor.

41:21My mind say, get up. My body say, hold up. You know, it didn't go together. Next thing I know, I go down. Next thing I know, J and 80 just, it's over. Now, mind you, Dre, I'm, what, 28 and 0, champ of the world, son of Brooklyn, proud of New York. You know, a big fighter, worldwide name. My first fight in Vegas. I'm a headliner. It's over. Just like that. I didn't accept that, Dre. I didn't. What? Over? What? What? You see me in the corner. I'm like, and then my father grabbed me. He knew it. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. Just, I'm, what? Over? Nah, nah. Over? Over? What? No way. So, I got another fight going on now.

42:13Now I'm in the corner of the fight. The fight, the fight, fight, fight is over. But I got a fight going on in the corner with my father and my team. Because now I'm trying to distract them to get them off of me so I can go get the ref. This is my mentality, Dre. I'm on some Project Wild Young Zab Judah stuff. I'm like, all right, all right, word. I'm looking at him. I'm like, all right. You start my fight. Now the fight is on you. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it was ignorant. I was young. I had a Brooklyn Brownsville mentality and it just came out in front of the whole world Man so when you went down you did get up too fast like you said and that's one thing that like it's very easy to do in that moment because the embarrassment sets in that's the first thing when you're on the canvas cause you're like I ain't supposed to be here so you got up you didn't give yourself a chance to you could have got on one knee took a second but again you don't want to be down there that's why we jump up the way that we do a lot of times as fighters and you like telling And Jay Nady like, hold up.

43:13No, I was telling him, I'm good. Yeah. That's what you said to him when you looked at him? I looked at him and said, I'm good. But Jay, tell me this. Your whole career, at what point in your career did you and Virgil ever work on being knocked out and getting up? Well, I'm going to say this. My dad did work on that with me. Okay. But I'm talking about, I was a kid, though. This is like me, 10, 11 years old, in the living room. He actually did work on that. We never, never, never beyond that point. You know what I'm saying? We went in the gym like, you get knocked down. We never even talked like that.

43:43But as a kid, my dad was like, look, man, you get knocked down. You got to roll over on one knee. Give yourself a second. This is stuff he was telling me. And then you let the referee count. Don't worry about the crowd. Then you slowly get up. So I was taught that early, but we definitely did not practice that throughout. And most fighters don't even have that small conversation. I never heard that. To your point. I never heard that. Every day we work it is to stay off that canvas. So we for sure not going to practice what to do when you get on that canvas. Right, right. I never worked on ever getting off the ground.

44:14I never worked on going down and getting up. Never even talked about it. I never talked about it. I never had this analogy in my head, Dre. I didn't know. All I know, you go down, you jump up, and let's go to war. You know what I'm saying? It was the same way in Flags Knocked Down with the first time that I got knocked down. You watch. Watch how fast I got up. I jumped up like, what? He dropped me? I'm going to get him now. I'm going to get him. You know what I mean? So I had the same mentality in the Kosta Zou fight. When I went down, my mind said, get up. My body said, hold up. So you got up.

44:45You telling Jay Nady, hold on. Your legs is gone. You know what I'm saying? They noodles. Right. But you don't know that. You don't know that at the time. All I know is I'm up and I'm going like, I got this. I got this. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. But then you go back down and that prompts Jay Nady to wave off the fight. I think, man, given the magnitude of that fight, everything that's at stake, like, I got to count you out. I'm not going to wave that off right there because I got to get, no matter how you look right now, because there's dudes that be slept and a referee be six, seven. I'm like, brother, it's over.

45:19Wave that off. And they'll still be counting. So in that type of situation. And I was champion of the world. Both of y 'all was, right? Y 'all was one and two at that time. In 2001, y 'all were one and two. This is for the undisputed junior welterweight supremacy. Right. So I'm figuring, all right, Let me get my A count. Let me get my A count. Give me a chance to get up, and I'm going to show you who I am. That's why I reacted the way I reacted, because I wasn't given the opportunity of finishing. Like, let him knock me out. Let me go out on my shield. Yes. Let me go out on my shield. I'm at the point, bro, let me go out on my shield.

45:53I almost got 30 fights in the game. I'm champ of the world. I've been reigning for so long. Let me go out on my shield. And when it went like this, Drake, when I seen this for the first time in my life, I never seen that. Like, it was... like electric thunderbolts went through my body. Like, I was like... You can tell. What? Because you normally doing that to other cats. I'm going to do it to other guys, bro. I didn't... I didn't know what to do, Joey. I just went back to being in Brownsville again, man. I seen it. I seen it. Yo, like I said, I apologize a million times to J-Nady. J-Nady's my friend now.

46:25He came to my Hall of Fame with me. Oh, that's good. You know, he's a good guy. We reconciled. We kicked it. You know, I got a lot of love for J-Nady. He knows I'm... I'm dealing sorry. But at that moment, I was hurt, bro. You couldn't register that. It couldn't register. Then I threw the chair. I threw the chair at Casa Zoo. So the first battle was to go get the ref. I went to put the glove out, and I was going to hit him. And my dad grabbed my arm and said, no, no, you're not going to do that. Then they get me again. They get me back to the corner. So I'm like, all right, all right. I'm over there now.

46:59And the stool is down there, so I got to fake them out again. Like, no, no, no. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. This is crazy, Dre. It's all happening in the corner. I see it. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. You sure? Calm down. I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. So he felt like he got me good. So he let me go, and he turns around to see the action. When he looked at the action, I grabbed the stool and chuck it. I think you still had your gloves on, too. I still had the gloves on. It was great. Just hurt was going through my body, bro. It was just like, I got to get somebody. I got to get somebody.

47:33I got to do something. There's no way in America this fight is over. And I lost my title in two rounds. In two rounds. I won the first round, then I got hit with one punch, and that's it? I'm like, nah, nah. It can't be happening like this. What was that night like? What was the next couple days like? And the next couple weeks like? How you dealing with that? You know, I must admit, man, I was hurt. I was young acting. You know, I mobbed around the hotel after. I ran back, I got dressed, I mobbed around with my homies. We was looking for Casa Zutin. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, just young boy stuff.

48:15I never ran into him no more. I never seen him no more. I never ran into him, you know, because he lived in Russia, in Australia. So I never got the chance to see him no more until, like, maybe 15 years later. Y 'all talk? And then we talked. You know what I'm saying? And I went over to Moscow, to Moscow, and we had this big reunion. The whole city came out. I got a chance to really meet him, talk to him. I met his family. I met his wife, his kids. This is when Tim was young. He was young. And I got a chance to say what's up to everybody. And, you know, because, you know, when you fight guys, you don't know these guys.

48:46I don't know you. You don't know me. You know what I'm saying? We just fought. We're going to war. We're going to war. And now, after years later, but I always say that if I would have probably met him, Manning to him that night again And It would have been bad Yeah it would have been bad It would have I was young I was ignorant Dre I was young I was ignorant I was a product of my environment You know what I'm saying I was a product of my environment And you know That's all I can say What was But I mean like Even the people around you though Like how was you seeing people You know how it is Like you up Everybody around And something like that happened Stuff get funny So what was you noticing The weeks and months After that loss Yeah I went home Dre that's probably the most time I got into the most fights as a grown man because at this time it's when the Puff Daddy song came out Harlem Shake remember that?

49:37Oh lord I went through that movie and they like some I don't know who was pinning that together oh my god that was terrible and remember it was no video yet it was no phones it was none of that but it was like the he did the Harlem Shake So wherever I would go, because I was always outside. Whenever I would go out and I would see dudes chuckling and giggling. I'm thinking they talking about me, Dre. So I'm on my BK bullies. Like, yo, what's up? What y 'all looking at? What's so funny? I want to hear the joke. And they're like, what are you talking about? We just, we talking about something else.

50:15But I'm so in my head that everybody's talking about me. It was crazy. But you was also in the culture, too. I was in the culture. So was you noticing them acting funny, too? Other rappers or other celebrities? Nah. Yeah. Most of them guys embraced me. You know what I'm saying? Most of them guys embraced me. I was around the Rockefellers. I was with Jay. Jay embraced me. Like, listen, man, it happened. The biggest thing you can do now is come back. Come back. Come back. You still got a career. You still got opportunities. You still a hell of a fighter. just put it back together and come back and do it again.

50:53Did you try to get that rematch? Yes. I tried like hell. But remember, I got suspended, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, I forgot to ask you about that. They suspended me for one year. Yeah. They suspended me for one year. So I was out. And a fine, right? And a fine. And a fine. So I was out the game. And, you know, by the time I did come back, they had already took off. Yeah. What was your relationship with Floyd like at that time? Did he reach out? Yeah, Floyd was, actually Floyd was around me. Really? Around the concerts of the time. Yeah, yeah. Because he was living in Vegas. He was living in Vegas.

51:23So he, you know, he helped me out with training. You know, like he knew Vegas. He knew the landscapes of Vegas. So he hooked me up with the gyms, the 24-hour gyms. This is during the fight. This is during the week of the fight, me coming over there. You know what I'm saying? He like, yo, train here, go ahead, do this, do that. He had his homies down with me and stuff like that. So everything was cool. Did you have any, but did he reach out after? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. We were friends still, still. We went up longer, you know, even when I lost that fight and I fought Demarcus Coley. That was my next world title that I won, the WBO.

51:58He was right there with me. Yeah. He was right there with me. He stayed the whole training camp with me because I fought at the Orleans Hotel, at the Orleans in Vegas. That was in 2004. Yeah, 2004. That was your second world title. That was my second world title. Was you with Don King at this point? Yeah, so this is my first fight with Don King. The Corley fight. At the Corley fight. How did the Don situation come about? Crazy, right? So I was with main events my whole time. and we never had no problems. Everything was good. But I had kind of went over exceeded my contract. You know, I was still winning.

52:27So I just stayed with them because they was in New York. It was cool. They was giving me the fights. But my contract was done. So I was just doing fight by fight. After the fight, I'm like, yo, make me feel good. Give me a signing bonus. Make me feel good. Make me come back. Let me get another title shot. And they're like, ah, we're not going to do that. But we'll try to get you a fight like that. I'm like, all right. One day I was in Justin's. I'm in Justin with the homies. we eat and all that, Don popped up. Don popped up. Came to Justin, puffed at your restaurant and you know, in the city. What's going on, brother?

52:57Yeah, he waving the flags. Zab, Super Judah. Yeah, all that, loud, big. And I'm like, you know, the homies looking at me like, yo, that's Don King, get over there. He come over to the table. Yeah, brother, yeah, brother. You know I got to have you, brother. I got you. Come on home. Come on home, brother. Come on home. You know, he started all this, you know. You out here with these other folks? We need to band together Change the world No no no He started the black and white thing Brother brother You gotta come home brother You on the wrong side Of the film brother That's why you not winning brother You on the wrong side Of the film brother Come on this side brother I got you This and that So he had a limo outside We go out to the limo He had a bag And then he had like A half a million in the bag Cash Boom Looking at me like Brother So I'm like You gonna give me the bag So he reaching the bag He reaching the bag Long story short He give me like 20 Boom Give me 20 ,000.

53:50Hold that. Put that in your pocket. There's a lot more that came from. All that. There's a lot more that came from. Come on down. You know what I'm saying? So now he talks to me. Where's your father at? The father, the son, and the Holy Ghost, brother. He talking like that to me. He's like, brother, we the Trinity, brother. Come together, brother. We got to come together. We got to make this happen. Long story short, after that, I had a flight going to Florida. I was going to his house. We were sitting down. And, you know, at this moment, I had two lawyers and me and my dad. We sit down. We talk.

54:27We go into the Don house to go sit down. Hey, you know, everybody, all right, cool. We're going to do this. Flight day. We get up. Flight day. We go to the airport. We're going to check in. Me and my dad looking tickets. My two lawyers come. There's no tickets for them in the... Yeah, we don't want them coming. That's our Don thing. Right. But it was all scheduled for all four of us. Initially. When we get to the airport, it's only tickets for me and my dad. So we like, this is funny, right? So the lawyer told me straight up, no problem. No problem. I get Don. Don, what's up? I'm at the airport.

55:02We're ready to go. There's no tickets for my lawyer. What? Oh, man. God damn. Secretary Street, man. They always mess up. He said, just come on down, brother. Come on down. And I'll get them a ticket tomorrow. And they come on down. and then I'll be gonna come. So I'm like, what y 'all think? And they're like, well, you know, okay, you know, you can go, but don't, you know, don't do anything. Don't sign nothing. Don't, don't, don't do nothing. So I'm like, all right, cool, cool, just be my papa. So we get to Don's house. Don having a cookout. This is the house on the water. Statue of Liberty in the yard.

55:36Statue of Liberty in the backyard. He got, one of them, you know, I can't per se remember numbers, but I think I remember one was like $50 million house the guest house was like a$30 million house boom we go do all the business at the$30 million house bad Dre bad we get there now us being from boxing we know the principles of the of the organizations Jose Suleiman Daryl Peoples all of the all of the presidents from the Sanctioning Body Bells are at his house come on man everybody's there having a big cookout partying and having a good time. He like, yeah, brother, this is how I do. Brother, you know, brother, you got to come on home, brother.

56:18Bring it together, brother. Come on home, brother. Brother, I got you. I got you, brother. I got you. Paco from the WBO. Dang. Everybody's there. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. I'm like, wow. I'm like, this is the guy we got to go to. Boom. So anyway, long story short, we having a cookout. Halfway through the cookout. Come on, y 'all come inside. Let's go sit down. We go inside the house. He got a big long table, big ballroom. He got money, Dre. That$500 is piled up on the table. It's a stack. He go to one side. We on one side. So this is how it goes, Dre. He can't see us no more. So he... When I say he good, Dre, he good, Dre.

56:58He good. He peeling the money off. Hey, brother, I need to see you, brother. Let's make a little wave right here in the middle. And he moving the money out the way. And I'm like, you know, me as a young... I'm still young, Dre. I'm in the 20s. I'm in the 20s. That's a heck of a show. That's a heck of a show, Dre. So now the money's there. Two papers, contracts. And we know cars. The B. The key with the B on it. You signing that contract. You signing the contract, Dre. We signing the contract. We ain't no thing. Lawyers. What lawyers? We'll deal with them later. We pops and read through the contract like we went to Harvard.

57:35You know what I'm saying? Man, listen. We ain't dumb. We ain't dumb. We ain't dumb. We know how to read. We know how to... Look good to me. Line by line, line by line. Everything look good. So now... He said everything look good. Here's how he wheeled us in. First fight. He said, it was a half a million on the table. So$250 ,000 is yours. You take it home right now. It's yours. You put that... And he had a Gucci bag. He had a Gucci bag. He was flying. He got a Gucci bag. That bag for you. Put that money in that bag. You take that home. That Bentley, that's yours. Take that, sign this contract right here.

58:13I took a$250 ,000 home. My first fight, I fight DeMarcus Coley for the WBO Championship of the World. $1.3 million fight. You think I ain't signed that contract? Straight up. Signed that contract. I think it was signed. Signed, signed. Signed. No lawyers, me and Pops. We took like an hour to go through every line and think about what we... We're not even thinking to call the lawyers and talking about nothing. We like, I know what they're going to say. I already know what they're going to say. No, no, no, no. Hold up, hold up. But this is what he did say. He said, hey, brother. Hey, brother. You know, we started saying, oh, we got to wait for the lawyers to come.

58:53He said, listen, brother. Dude, listen, brother. I want you, brother. You a bad young man. I got to have you. I got to have you. He said, I'm going to get you. But I'm not going to promise you tomorrow when them lawyers get here, all that's going to be here. Like a positive. That's the line right there. What you mean it's not going to be here? I'm going to get you. We're going to do a deal, brother, but I'm not going to promise you all it's going to be here. You know? He said, brother, listen, it's us. I ain't doing that wrong, brother. It's right there in black and white. So I'm like, first fight this, first fight that, second fight this.

59:26I'm looking at it. Numbers is crazy, Dre. Numbers is crazy. Money's there. Especially back then, too. Back then, the money's there. I'm like, you know, 1.4 is, that was good money back then, Dre. That was like the equivalent to the 10 right now. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, ooh. I'm like, okay, okay, okay. Had you made a million dollars yet? Yeah, yeah. I made from the Casa Azul fight. Okay, okay. I already was a millionaire already. So I already had bread. I already had millions. That's more bread. That's more bread. I'm thinking about how do I, I'm stacking. I'm like, I'll put that in the count.

59:58It's crazy. We rolling. It's crazy. Yo, shit is up. We up. Plus the signing bonus. Plus the signing bonus. The signing bonus. Plus the Bentley. You know what I'm saying? It was a brand new green Bentley and Nars convertible. Bad, Dre. Only one I've seen with this one is Jay-Z in the video. So I'm like, oh, what? I can't wait to hit Brooklyn with this, baby. I can't wait to hit Brooklyn with this, baby. And then it was that. And then I remember doing the deal, calling the lawyers like, yo, I did the deal. The lawyers said, what? You did what? Listen, man. We had fax machines back then. He said, well, fax me the contract.

1:00:38I faxed him the contract. He looked at the contract. And he don't, the lawyer don't say nothing. My whole thing was, how do I get my car back to New York? You know what I'm saying? So Don go, yeah, brother, just, you know, y 'all get a flight. Just leave the car and I'm going to ship it to New York. You going to do what? I'm going to leave the car. You going to ship it to New York? I'm driving this car to New York from Florida. I was, Jay, I'm like, I was 20, I was 25. I got to drive that thing. I'm driving this back in New York. You ain't shipping nothing. I'm not leaving this car because you might change your mind.

1:01:11You know how this, Dre? We from the hood, Dre. It's like... I got a bird in the hand. I'm about to take that. I'm out of here. I can get this car home. I ain't worried about it. What did he say? He said, you sure, brother? I said, brother, you don't want to do that. Man, I'm good. I said, I know. My mom's in North Carolina. I'm going to stop at her house. I already got the whole thing started. I got a plan that I'm going to hit Atlanta. I'm going to stop there for one day. I'm going to go to North Carolina. and then I'm going to head off back to New York. And that's exactly what I did. So the lawyers didn't see nothing in that contract?

1:01:41So the only thing that they seen was, and remember, the Don King contract is always great. The only problem that you ever have with Don King is, if what, you lose. If you lose, then you see, you know, the results. That's pretty much standard with most contracts is that they can renegotiate the minimum. So the minimum is a million. And then you win this fight, your next minimum is 1-5. Now I lose, now you're trying to give me 600. Right, right. Or 650 or something like that. Right, so that was the only BS thing that was spotted in the contract. So you did keep the car, you drove it back? Oh yeah, I drove it back.

1:02:21That was yours? It's mine, yeah. That was crazy. The car went back home with us, Dre. The car went back, the$250 ,000 cash, that went back too. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I mean, listen, it was a great time. Now, one thing I can say, I don't have nothing bad to say about Don King. I made the most money and a lot of money with Don King. I made great relationships. I had great experiences and everything. I don't have nothing bad to say about the guy. You know what I'm saying? Nothing. When it was time for us to do our thing, we had to just do our thing. You know what I'm saying? You got to know when, you know?

1:02:54Yeah. When I came back from the Olympics, we meeting with all the promoters. Me and Jay. Me and Jay Prince. We went to New York. We met with Don. and over breakfast, man, Don talked for like two hours straight, bro. I'm talking about nonstop. He barely took it. He didn't drink no coffee, no water, no nothing. He just kept talking. So we got toward the end and Jay was like, all right, Don, let's talk business now. He said, yeah, brother, let's do it. He said, man, what you want to give Dre to sign this contract, man? We looking for a strong bonus, man, only gold medalist, blah, blah, blah. He said, brother, whatever number you put on there, we going to sign it.

1:03:32I was like, boy, he cold. Like, I wasn't in tune with business yet, but coming from where I came from, I knew that was cold. That was a line right there. He said, brother, whatever you want to put on that contract, you're going to sign it. And Jay kind of laughed, but in my mind, I'm like, it's time to go, bro. And then we waited for him to send us the deal. Never got it. Never got it. Never seen it. Everybody was sending their deals. We going through them. Never got it from God. See, the strongest thing, you had Jay with you. Jay's a very smart businessman. You taught me a lot. Taught you a lot, yeah.

1:04:06I learned a lot from Jay just watching and then also him teaching. He's one of my favorite guys, by the way, you know what I'm saying? Close up, close up. I got a chance to be with him personally and watch him from a distance, you know what I'm saying? Just watch his business. Even his moves that he made in the music was cold. You know what I'm saying? How he opened the door for a lot of stuff, of how he took rap a lot from the bottom to the top. That was amazing. That was something that nobody was doing at that time. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he made a big impact. Especially being from the South too.

1:04:40Being from the South, yeah. They look at people from the South, how they slow this and that, and Jay anything but that, man. Yeah, yeah. He might talk slow, but he ain't slow. They talk slow, but that's what they get it wrong. That's what they get it wrong, yeah. He taught me a lot in business, and one of the things I learned is to think, in negotiations. Like you assume you think in negotiations, but not always, you know. We would get an offer from HBO or Showtime, and it wouldn't line up with what they were saying. Hey, you our guy, man. You know, we want you, this and that. All right, cool.

1:05:15So the deal come through, and I'm like, they offer what? And I used to get mad when I was young, like, man, forget that I ain't got to fight for them. And Jay taught me, say, look, Dre, he said, that's just the first offer. He said, we're going to get what we want to get, but we gotta go to work now. And I didn't understand what that meant, but I started watching him and I would see how he never got too high. He never got angry, never got upset, but he just was right here and he used his brain under pressure. Man, it's all we can do. Oh yeah? Well that's gonna be tough right there. I don't think Dre gonna wanna take that.

1:05:48You know, and that tournament is around the corner, so I, you know, this is what we want, you know? And I would see how, I would see how he would always get the number up, So probably nine times out of 10, we got what we wanted. And one time out of 10, we didn't, but it was close. So now I took that in life. So now I don't care what type of business deal I'm doing, an offer come across that I don't want to see, I just take a deep breath and I just start thinking. I'm like, you know what? Well, look, man, this is, you know, I hear you. I know y 'all trying to save as much as possible, but, you know, my job is to make as much as possible.

1:06:20This is what I think I'm worth. If we can't do it, I understand, but this is what I need. That's right. And I got that from Jay, man. And I learned just to be strategic and to not be emotional around somebody's offer. Just understand it. They trying to save as much. They going to talk a good game. Sometimes the numbers don't line up with the talk. But if you sharp enough, you can get it there. That's right. That's right. Negotiation. You can get it there. That's right. That's right. You know, after you beat Corley in April of 2004, you faced Corey Spinks for the first time. This one is in Las Vegas, and, you know, Corey beat you with a razor-thin decision, I think, 112, 114, twice.

1:06:58And then 116, 111. Why couldn't you catch up with Corey on that night?

1:07:05Their first fight, I thought I won their first fight, Dre. You did? I dropped him in the 12th round. I remember that. I feel like I did enough to pull the fight off. And then when they gave it to Corey, I was just like, I was just kabobulated again. like, what? How? This was the night when Lehman Brewster knocked out Klitschko. Right, so I'm, you know what I'm saying, I'm like, this was a big night, I'm like, well how they pull theirs off and I ain't pull mine off? You know what I'm saying? And they was on the undercard of us. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, this is crazy. You know, I just watched Lehman Brewster become champion of the world and now it's my goal for the, you know, for the Undisputed Championship of the World and I fell short.

1:07:50And I was like, but he didn't beat me. But that sent me back to the drawing board with a different mentality, Dre. I mean, like, that training camp was very crucial. I was locked in. For the second one. For the second fight. That's leading me to my question. You did look locked in. Like, it was different, right? Like, so you went from fighting Corey in Las Vegas to now they feel like Corey Spinks is a draw in St. Louis, which he was. Y 'all fought in front of 22 ,000 people. 28 ,000. Was it 28? Yeah. 28 ,000. It was in Guinness Book of World Records. Really? For Savage Center, yep. You walked to the ring first because you the challenger.

1:08:29And I remember just seeing, like, you was like a, man, you was like, I don't even know how to describe it, but you was in another place. I didn't even, did you see the crowd? Did you acknowledge the crowd? It didn't look like you did. So you go first. And it was almost like the crowd was just like, yeah, y 'all here, but I'm getting ready to do something to your boy. But Corey come, you know, he dance, he doing his St. Louis thing, and I just see you pacing in the ring. Like, you're not even, you're not watching, you're not bothered by it. Would you say that was your best performance? Or your best night of boxing?

1:09:03Complete, putting everything together? Because I was a masterful fight, man. Could be one of them. Could be one of them. The greatest ring interest ever. I gotta give him that. Gotta give him that. But even before that, Dre, it was so much... So much happened before that, why I was in, why I had the mentality of why I had it. In order for me to get that fight, I had to give up a lot. I gave up everything. Was a 200 ,000 a real number? $100 ,000. $100 ,000 bonus if I knocked them out. But was your purse? $100 ,000. And then a 100 ,000 bonus? The first fight was$1.5 million. That math ain't math.

1:09:48How that, how that, how that, that's that DK man. So this is, you want the fight, brother, right? I said, yeah. He said, go on there and show me. So you, you, I mean, you had something on your mind. Yo, Dre. That's it. Dre, Dre, Dre, the man, the man took his hat off to me, Dre, like that, and looked me in my eyes and said, you want the fight, right? All this, all this don't mean nothing. If you can fight, you can beat the boy, then we got a whole lot more. You know how we do. And I said, how much you said, John? He said,$100 ,000. I got$100 ,000 for you, brother. And we going to St. Louis. St.

1:10:27Louis? St. Louis don't have boxing? Remember, the Sabbath Center, they never had no fight before that or after that. Right. You know what I'm saying? Corey never fought before or after. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, St. Louis, this is, and at the time, St. Louis was number one on the charts for murder rate. They was up. it was a bad city. Then he had Kevin Cunningham. Kevin Cunningham was another great guy but at the time Kevin Cunningham was a police officer. Police officer, yeah. He was supposedly kicked off of the police force for some activities that wasn't so kosher. You know what I'm saying?

1:11:03So I'm like wait a minute. What y 'all trying to do? Y 'all sending me into where? With who? You know what I'm saying? I'm like this is the terror zone and for how much? Nah, this is not making sense. But I knew I could beat him, Dre. I knew he couldn't beat me. So if you watch it, leading up to the... Soon as the fight was made, I said, I'm knocking him out. I said, if I go to the decision, give it to him again. I'm knocking him out. That's the only way I want this fight. Why did you say that? What was it about? Because I just felt it. Because in the first fight, I dropped him in the 12th round.

1:11:38Kind of like late in the fight, I figured him out. And I said, just take it to him. Take it to him and drill him. Take it to him and drill him. And I flip, flip, boom, boom. And he went down. I said, I should have been there. And then when he got up, we danced a little bit more, and then ding, that was it. The fight was over, and I was like. How long did it take you to agree to that deal? To the 100 ,000? Probably the same day. So you was just like, I gotta hang out on chocolate. Because it wasn't about the money, Dre. I had just made 1.5, so I still had bread. You know what I'm saying? Plus, prior fights, I already had money.

1:12:10You know what I'm saying? So I was already a millionaire. I was comfortable. You know what I'm saying? I was living in Jersey. I was comfortable with how I had the house, the car. I had it. I had it ready. This is personal now. This is personal. He can't beat me. And this is for Dre, the under-street, welterweight champion of the world. And I'm like, oh, nah. I ain't giving this one up. So you didn't do that intentionally. And he started doing his antics and me. Yeah, Roger got in the ring. Roger's a former fighter, so he still got that in him. And then my dad's over there looking like, yo, what's going on?

1:12:41They going at my son? Soon I see him hit him, boom. I just came in and boom. Solid