Zab Judah: The Mayweather Knockdown They Never Called, Roger in the Ring & $350K in Fines

23:34You think that was a fair narrative going into the fight? I mean, that was his take on the fight. I mean, all I had to do was just be in good shape, and I could disregard that, you know what I'm saying? There was a lot of things that was done in the fight. They never allowed us to get near each other, even in the weigh-in. If you watched the weigh-in, we never had a real face. They always had security in between us. Because he knew me, so he told him, don't let him get close to me because I know Zapp. I know Zapp like a bull. He gonna push me, hit me, something. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, because of the buildup and the tension.

24:12You know what I'm saying? It was a big buildup. You watch the fight even before the fight going. They had security in the middle of the, like, they divide us. You stand your side, you stand your side. I mean, like, come on, Dre. They don't do that. You know what I'm saying? I've been in a lot of your fights. I never seen that kind of energy. You know what I'm saying? There's separation. You stay on your side, I stay on my side, you know? They were popping it, we were popping it. You know what I'm saying? And, yeah. I can see that. And Floyd is also a master agitator. Yes, yes. He gonna agitate you like a big kid.

24:46You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what? He gonna be doing, you know, all the videos, all the stuff. But I can see him not wanting that type of tension, like, you know, the weak of or whatever the case may be. Right, he don't want... He's not a... Floyd is a great talker. He's a great agitator, but he's not a computational guy. He's not like a, want to lock in, let's, you know, let's fight. Like, Jay, you know, we from the streets. You know what I'm saying? If it pop, we're going to make it pop. You know what I'm saying? He's not one of those guys. You never seen Floyd in a street altercation, ever.

25:18Throughout his whole career. I'm not saying that's nothing bad. Yeah, I know what you mean. That's a great thing. That's just his personality. But you always heard him popping. You know what I'm saying? He's going to pop it. He's going to agitate you, bro. He's going to say things, get it under your skin. but you never seen him in no comfort. Because that benefited him. You know, if he can get you mad and angry, it's dangerous early, but if I can weather that storm, he gonna lose a lot more energy a lot quicker. He gonna make mistakes. And you know, that was Floyd's strategy and you hurt Floyd early.

25:47I'm waiting for you to get into the breakdown. Yeah, you hurt Floyd early. And the power was there, all the stuff, the uppercut, all the stuff, it was there. and even the glove touching the canvas. That should have been a knockdown. You know, he wobbled back. The glove touched the canvas. By the rules, that's a knockdown. You know, and for whatever reason, it always seemed like Floyd was able to get around that kind of stuff. And we'll get into the brawl in a second, but you were very, very lethal in the first three, four, five rounds, man. And I give Floyd credit, too, because he had a good body attack, right?

26:26and he did not throw anything hard. He would try to hold you here. Was you feeling them shots around and straight down? And so he's touching you, trying to pin your hands up. But it wasn't hard. But it wasn't hard, though. But they started to add up. And I'm like, man, that's interesting. Because he was just like, huh? Then he started putting tools together. Bing, bing. Then he holds you back up and he get out of there. But I give him credit for his composure, though. Because you was hunting. And he'd get caught, and he'd just keep walking straight until you've never seen him get rattled, never seen him get out of his element.

27:04Is that how you seen it? I heard him a couple times. I heard him a couple times in the fight. I seen him. First thing Floyd's going to do when Floyd gets hurt, Floyd throws his hands up. He throws his hands up, and he get tight. He try to just embrace everything else. He don't want you to follow up. He don't want you to follow up with shots. You know, the knockdown, that was one element. That's when he wobbled back in his glove. Glove touched the fuck. I mean, it was off a punch. Right hook, right. It was off a check hook. You know what I'm saying? I check hooked him. His hand went down, Richard Steele.

27:37He went safe. He went like, what is that? You know what I'm saying? That was one element to the fight. You know, then people say Zab won the first, you know, fight. we broke it down on TikTok. We broke it down a lot. And people say the first five, the first five rounds, Zab won. If you add the knockdown, that's six rounds. It's only 12 rounds in the fight. So if I get, if I win six and he win six, fight's a draw. You know what I'm saying? Now, you know, fast forward not to jump it up, but if two men are fighting in the ring and anybody else comes in the ring at any time, Dre, it's an automatic DQ.

28:18You know what I'm saying? I mean, so, So those are the real situations that happened in the fight that should have been changed or should have went through. But if that would have happened or if we go back and change that now, that changes the whole trajectory of Floyd Mayweather's TBE career. Because now he's not 50 and 0 no more. You know what I'm saying? Then here's another thing, Dre, and I want you to look at this in the thing. Floyd Mayweather had all of his fights in Las Vegas. Today, when we see things like that happen, that's called a what? A residency. Yeah. Is that? So he had a modern day boxing residency in Nevada saying that he's not going to lose because this is a residency.

29:04This got to go on two times a year. One on top of the year, one at the end of the year. Every year, you stay on your feet, you do good, we got you. You're going to win. So Floyd had a residency. Six rounds I won. The knockdown. the uncle and them getting in the ring that should have been his wife's face so there's so many different factors why that fight should have went the other way you know what I'm saying but the smartest thing I think that you know Bob Arum and the team did was I got suspended right after the fight somehow they said I was the the causer of the brawl you know what I'm saying I was the initiator of the brawl and they got me out the wage for a whole year and they were able to go up the ladder so when it was time for me to come back after my one year at Drake, you already know.

29:50They was like, oh, no, no, no, we doing this, we doing that, we doing this, we doing that. Yeah. So that's why you never seen a Zab Judah in Mayweather Part II. On one hand, if the fight was a DQ, which by the rules, right, like people would look at this, oh, you hate no Floyd. No, no, by the rules, Roger coming up on that apron and just Roger, you know, felt like you was hitting him low, which he did get some, I think you hit him low several times, right? No. You didn't hit him low? I didn't try to do that, Dre. But I'm saying, some did straight low. It was the 10th round. We was both fatigued.

30:23You see, I was all fatigued. I threw a shot and followed up. Right. So it wasn't no, like, you know, attentional, boom. You know what I'm saying? You just do it. We seen Miguel Cotto. We seen, you know what I'm saying, other fighters do it. They just throw one shot, boom, another shot. They put everything into it. Ah! So you didn't do that intentionally? No, I did not do that intentionally. It was the heat of the moment. He turned, boom, boom. And they said, they broke it up and he started doing his antics and walks off and Bridget's still looking. He didn't even know what the call, he was like, he didn't even know what happened.

30:55Then he's like, hold on, then Roger come in the ring, started coming straight for me. So yeah, Roger got in the ring, Roger's a former fighter, so he still got that in him. He got that in him. And he's square up with you. You know, he started coming to me and then Lenny came up behind him in the back and then my dad was over there looking like, Yo, what's going on? They going to my son? And he jumps in the ring and my dad walks in Roger and just hit him. And he hit Roger. I thought you tried to take off on Roger. No, yeah. So when I see my dad coming, I know my dad, Dre. I know my dad. That's how you know your dad.

31:26I know him. I know his walk. I know his demeanor. And he wasn't doing no talking. He walked Roger to Roger. So when I seen him walking up with the whole demeanor, I just started approaching. I started looking like, yeah, yeah, alright, alright and as soon as I seen him hit him, boom I just came in, boom I swung a shot, I swung a shot at Roger I think I hit Leonard, boom, I hit Leonard and then out of somewhere Roger was down from my dad hitting him and he pushed me back to the ropes and security grabbed my arms so I was pinned against the ropes and Roger was choking me go back and watch the tape Roger was choking me in the corner and then my uncle got in the ring and threw Roger off of me, you know what I'm saying So a lot happened in the fight, man.

32:10A lot happened in the fight. Meanwhile, Floyd's sitting there like. Floyd's sitting there just. He in the corner like, what they doing? They tripping. What's going on? Yeah, yeah. Floyd ain't getting involved. I ain't got nothing to do with that. I'm not going to get in there. I'm not going to get in there. I ain't messing my money up. That was crazy. At the point of time, Dre, I don't know nothing else, man. Pops get into it. I don't know how to not. But Roger got in the ring because he felt like, man, you're doing this intentional. He felt like it looked like you was fatiguing. And you in there with Floyd.

32:40Floyd didn't show fatigue. Maybe you heard it. But it looked like Floyd was coming on and you hit him low to get rest. That's what I think Roger got in the ring and was like, bro. That's what he thought. Yeah, like, you want to do that? And we finna, you know, he got in there and did what he did. But the brawl ensues for I don't know how many minutes. It was crazy. It was crazy. Then they dye everything down. They get everybody out the ring. And start us back to fight again. And then they say fight. And I think it was like 10 seconds, 15 seconds before that round was over. What are you thinking at this point when you go back to the corner?

33:12Did your father get thrown out? Yeah, my father got thrown out the corner. Roger, too? Roger got thrown out the corner, too. Okay, so who took over? My uncle. Okay. My uncle took over. My uncle Jimmy, he took over. And he just said, you know, just stay calm and finish it off. You know, my father didn't want the fight to go on no more. He said, the fight should be over. The fight is done. The good thing about it being over, even whether it was a DQ or a situation like that, is y 'all would have got a two for one. Right. And they didn't want that. Y 'all would have got a two for one. They didn't want that.

33:43Y 'all would have had to run that right back. They didn't want that, Dre. And I don't know what the suspension, though. If they'd have suspended you, you wouldn't have got that. They didn't want that, Dre. Regardless of whatever, they didn't want no rematch. They didn't want that to happen because Zab was getting that ass. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And you danged this, too. They didn't want that. Yeah. They didn't want that. You know what I'm saying? And that was like, nah, let's get this over with. Let's move on and let's keep going. Yeah. But you felt the body shots, though. No. You didn't feel none of them body shots?

34:12It wasn't hard. Floyd's not a... But I'm saying even the fatigue, though. It may not have felt hard. It made you fatigued. But that's what I'm saying. Did you feel it from that standpoint? So while he was pop, pop, pop. Yeah. Pop, pop, pop. Pop, pop. Yeah. That's it. So it's not like a... You know how you're like, boom, boom. No, it was none of that. It was just like pop, pop, pop. He was just touching. He was just touching me. He was just touching me. Like, you know, like almost stabbing you, like just like knocking the wind out of you. Like, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. Like just, but it's not hard.

34:44But that stuff add up though. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The accumulation of that, it ties you down 100%. So you say his power game ain't? No, he's, I mean, he's. But he's hitting hard enough though. You feel it. I'm saying even to the head. What does power game feel like? I mean, he was decent. I'm not going to never discredit him. I think that he's a great athlete. He's a great athlete. We had a hell of a night. It's memorable. It was more than 20 years ago, and I walk down the street today, and people still have full-fledged conversations about it. You know what I'm saying? So, no, I don't discredit him or anything.

35:19I mean, I don't disrespect him. Yeah, he was... But it just wasn't... I wouldn't call him a Donald Mike puncher, no. No, but was he a skilled, masterful technician? Yes, he was. What's his greatest assets and attributes? defense. It's hard to hit him. He was, Jay, he was making me miss by a millimeter of a fraction. And you know what? I was throwing some big, heavy shots, Jay. So that's where the fatigue came in at, me missing those big shots. You know what I'm saying? And then he started, after I would miss the big shot, he was just, pow, pow, pow. Come right back. Come right back. That's part of the strategy.

35:55I know you just, I know you just shot, shot your shot. Shot your low and I'm gonna touch you to the body. And I'm walking right to you. You can't breathe. Hop, hop, hop. So I would say that was... So it was a great strategy and a great game plan for Ford. Great mental. Great mental. I think you had one more moment where you heard him on the ropes and he covered up and he let you shoot your shot and then he kind of walked back to you. Yeah, yeah. I did my 52 on him too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, what are you doing? Was that true what Larry Merchant said? Larry Merchant said that the IRS was ringside at the fight.

36:27Was that true? I don't know. You know Larry Merchant. You know how you just... I don't understand why he started bringing that kind of stuff up, man, like in the middle of a fight. Like he had a whole thing about it. I was like, even if that's true, like why would you highlight that? I don't even know what the IRS looks like, Dre. You know what I'm saying? Like who is the IRS, you know what I'm saying? I ain't never seen them. Yeah, I ain't never seen them. I don't know who they are, you know what I'm saying? They just seen some paperwork and you got to pay it. That's it. I've never seen no, there is no face of the IRS, you know what I'm saying?

36:57After that fight, you know, it's one of them fights where, you know, it was a fight for us, you know. It's a fight for the community. And, you know, you don't want to lose to that guy. Just because of the competitive juice, like, man, I got to hear this dude now. He got that win on me. How did you deal with that loss? The Mayweather fight was probably one of my, I would say, easier losses. Really? Because the world had their own opinion. People had their own opinion about what really happened. They knew what they seen. They say a lot of, I mean, I go everywhere today. I mean, people tell me, you didn't lose that fight, Zach.

37:39He didn't beat you. He didn't beat you. I mean, whatever happened with the politics or whatever happened, that was one thing. But as far as physically beating you, no, he didn't beat you. So I didn't really have too much back slander from that. And the Nevada State Athletic Commission, they hit you with a$250 ,000 fine. Me$250 ,000 and then my dad. Pops$100 ,000. $150 ,000. But they took it all out of my purse. One shot. Man. One shot, yeah. Well, they be seeing you make them M's and they like, oh, we're going to get some of that. They took$350 ,000 from me. Yep, straight up. Boom. And you got suspended for a year.

38:18I got suspended for a year. And remember, Dre, the money wasn't a problem. We made$8 billion that night, Dre. the money wasn't no problem. The suspension was the problem. That's what really hurt me. You handcuffed now. Because now I can't do nothing. I can't even come back and try to get the rematch or push for it even if I try to. You're suspended. So strategically they knew exactly what they was doing. We're going to get them out the way but we're going to get them out the way. We're going to sit them down over here and let them go think about that and then we're going to come over here and just keep running it up.

38:52Did anybody on his side get suspended? I think Roger, I think, well, no, I think Roger just got fined. No suspension? I don't think so. What about Pops? Your pops get a suspension? No, my pops got a fine. Just a fine. Yeah. About a year later, you get the Miguel Cotto fight. Mm-hmm. Puerto Rican Day weekend, MSG. Crazy. That's crazy. Crazy. Tell me about it. Big night. Crazy. New York City. It started off as a boxing fight, then it turned into Black versus Puerto Rican. in fight night it was a million fights that night it was so many fights it was fights going on as we was fighting Dre have you watched the fight you go watch people it was fights going on as we was fighting it was a it was a a grueling crazy night but another one Dre you go back and you watch the low blows that Miguel hit me with you know what I'm saying it played a big part it played a big part you know what I'm saying now I'm gonna tell you the greatest thing that happened with uh miguel quarter fights right i have seven children at the time i have four daughters after the miguel quarter fight i little little zab was born and then my and then my identical twin boys princeton and preston so i don't know what trajectory he shifted inside the chromosomes but he did something that made the boys come out after that you know I haven't had a daughter since.

40:17You know what I mean? So that's one of the great things that happened in the Miguel Cordo fight. Plus it was a legendary night. It showed a lot of tenacity, a lot of guts, a lot of willpower. I fought that fight with everything. But yeah, the low blows did. It played a big part. The first one was boom. Okay, cool. The second one, he got loads. He got way under the hunt. They didn't want him on that one? Nah, nah, they never give not one, not take no points, nothing. It just was... What's your mindset with that kind of stuff, though? Because, you know, some people, they look to the ref, and other people say, well, I'm a Tech Matters, and I'm on here.

40:53You hit me like that, I'm hitting you like that. It was stacked against me, really, Dre. Remember, Dre, I'm coming back from the Mayweather suspension. I'm coming back from the car. I've been suspended two times when it was Miguel Corder fight time. Think about it. I already had two one-year suspensions. That's two years they took away from my career. when I'm fighting Miguel Cotto. Do I want to do anything to... Right, right. Think about it, Dre. I have no grounds. Yeah. Do I want to retaliate, Dre? Dre, you know me. What? I'm ready to go. We in New York. Everybody here. We can turn it up. You know what I'm saying?

41:28Don't do it. Stay calm. What do you respect about his fight game? Especially that night. Who? Cotto. Miguel Cotto's a very physically strong person. He's strong. He's a very strong, physical person. Hit hard. he's a very mentally strong person because I tried to get him out of the dry I hit him with some I hit him with some I drove his I drove his lip through his teeth for his he still got a cut right here under his dry I mean I still got a cut from him too you know what I'm saying so we had war wounds that night you know what I'm saying but I was hitting Miguel Acorda with some hard uppercuts I mean he was looking at the top of the I mean I hit him with so many uppercuts I'm pretty sure he could paint a visual picture of what the top of Madison Square Garden looks like you know what I'm saying 100 % I know it You know what I'm saying Like I was I was drilling them You know It didn't seem well But It just then You know I mean Things happen But Like I said He did have a sustained body attack You know Some of them definitely straight But he You know That's part of Kodo's game Yeah You know He start with the body shots early But I was in good shape For the Kodo fight I was in I probably was in better shape For the Kodo fight Than I was in a floor fight Really Yeah Yeah Just, you know, when you go through different ups and downs and trauma in your life, Dre, you make sure that that doesn't happen again.

42:48You make, you know what I'm saying? You make sure that. And that's what I did 100%. I just made sure that none of that was going to happen again. So as far as being in condition, as far as being strong, as far as being mentally ready, I was locked and loaded. Let me ask you this. After the cutoff fight, do you still love it? Or are you just doing it because it's a job and it's something you've done your whole life? No, I still loved it, but I wasn't in love with it. That should make sense, Jay. That shifted a little bit. Shifted, Jay, because, you know, when you go through trials and tribulations and...

43:21The business of boxing. Disappointments and ups and downs and good nights and bad nights, after a while, you're just like, all right, it's another day in office. It's almost like getting up, just getting up, going to work. All right, what's going to happen, going to happen. You know what I'm saying? What's going to happen, going to happen. So over the next 12 years, you fight guys like Lucas Matisse, you know, Amir Khan. Wait, come on, Drake. Don't do that. Talk to me. Don't go through that. Stop me. Stop me. Stop me. Stop me. Stop me. Don't just go through that. Stop me. Stop me. What? He was 28-0 with 27 knockouts.

43:53Yeah, boy, can hit. He was destroying dudes, Drake. Can hit. I gave him his first loss. I would tell people, so he was a golden boy fighter. That kind of sparked the, because, you know, I beat Oscar that night. So Oscar's was kind of like, he really, he was kind of like, you know, I got to get Zapp, you know what I'm saying? So I asked him, I said, okay, cool. I'll take this fight, you know, let me get some, oh, send me a tape on this guy of who y 'all want me to fight. Oh, it's, it's, it's, um, Luca Matisse, he had all of his fights in Argentina. They sent me a tape from his third professional fight.

44:29He got 28 fights, his third professional fight. Oh, this is all we can find. He don't, a lot of his fights wasn't televised. It's crazy. So I'm looking at the fight. I'm like, nah, he don't look too. He don't look like nothing. You know, because at this time, there was not really a lot of hoorah with Luis Matisse. He wasn't a really. We didn't know he was unknown. He was unknown. He was an Argentina fighter, but he was an Argentina slayer. His record was 28 and 0 with 27 knockouts. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, give me the fight. give me the fight I done went through all this craziness I done fought the biggest and the best in the world Dre I ain't scared of nobody I ain't scared I'm from Brownville, Brooklyn I ain't scared of nobody or nothing you know what I'm saying give me the fight we fight in Jersey I take the fight we go into the fight so wait let's go back to training camp training camp 10 10 and a half weeks watching the tapes they telling me you know from looking at what I've seen and from watching his record he's a puncher okay Slip and counter, slip and counter.

45:36Hands up, be smart, slip and counter, slip and counter. This was the game plan going into the fight. Slip and counter, slip and counter, go forward. Take it to him, take the fight to him. He's never been to these lights before. He's never seen these lights. He's never seen nothing like this. Fast forward to fight night. Round one start, boom. Round one start, we going out. I'm in there, I'm looking at him. He shoot a jab at me, Dre. I slip it, he be in my chest, Dre. boom you Dre a wave went through my bike you know how the how the cartoons get hit and the little wave go through the Dre this is real life boom I'm like I'm like alright maybe maybe you know you know you're in a fight don't let that get you maybe that's something something different boom I start moving around I do it again slip slip slip slip he come out again boom dump slip What the?

46:34Dre, it's like, boom! I'm like, oh. First thing on my mind, he didn't hit me in my face with nothing. Don't get caught with that. I'm not getting hit with none of that. Three seconds, Dre, I changed the whole game plan. Backing up, moving, slipping. Backing up, moving. Now, remember, 10 weeks, going forward, slipping, moving, beating guys up in the gym, doing all that, popping with a game plan. I get to the corner, I was like, what you doing? Go forward, flipping. I'm looking at him like this. Nah, man. Nah, man. But I can't say it yet. You know, my father is a ninth degree black belt, showed a conscience.

47:10He ain't trying to hear it. He's not trying to hear none of that. He's not trying to hear. It's no, it's levels to the z. He not trying to hear none of that. So I'm like, I couldn't say, yo, he hit hard. There's no way you can say that. What are you talking about? He hit hard. You know what I'm saying? He's like, go for it. So I'm like, all right. So for the first, maybe three rounds, I'm just like, I'm looking at him, but I'm not listening to nothing. He said, I'm just taking my water and I'm coming up with my own game plans in my head. He like, come on, Zach, come on, Zach, come on, come on, come on.

47:39Go forward, flip and counter, flip and counter. Hit him with the half step. The half step was the double jab. When he threw the right hand, pull off the bat, boom, catch him. He too hard for that, Dre. I can't get caught. I can't get caught with that, Dre. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to have to box. One, two, three, four. Move, move, move, move, move. one, one, two, move, move, move, move, move. And he's like, why are you moving so much? Stop moving, staying there, and just catch him. Can't do that in here. Paz, I'm in here. I can't do that. Later on, maybe about the fifth round, I said, tell him, I said, he hit hard.

48:14He hit hard. He look at me in the head. What? What? He like, all right, box him, box him, box him. Box him then, box him, box him. I'm like, all right, I'm boxing. I start boxing. I'm boxing him. Long story short, Dre, I pull out a 12-round decision. I beat him. I pull a fight off. Golden Boy's, the fumes coming out of their head. They mad, like, how did this happen? Because this fight with Drake was set up for me to lose. Everything was stacked against me. My back was against the wall. It was made for me to lose the fight. I pulled it off, and I won the fight. That's the difference maker, though.

48:47You got to be able to think. I don't care what type of style you got. If you a puncher, if you like to come forward, you got to think with that style. Because if you just focused on being a crowd pleaser and tit for tat and, you know, I take two to give one and I'm just going to. That's cool. It's a hard way to make a living. Right. You're going to take a lot more punishment. And all these people that's cheering for you right now, when you go to the hospital, they going home. They going home. And when you get older and you struggling, they won't be there. That's right. And you're going to have a lot more losses on your record and that's going to mess up your money.

49:16So you got to be able to think. And that one adjustment you made, that was the difference maker. That was the difference. That was the difference. Using your brain. You got to think, bro. And sometimes it's just a small adjustment. If I come to him, he likes guys to come to him. But if I make him move his feet, he can't really set the way he wants to set to get maximum power. Simple adjustment, that goes a long way. So back to the list, bro. You starting to get into the point now these next 12 years where now you fighting the next generation behind you. Young guys, yeah. See, I didn't want to do that.

49:49Because these youngsters ain't got no mercy. They'll do that all like, oh, what's up, man? I watched you. But if they can get your name on their resume, they're going to do it. Right? And rightfully so. I wasn't trying to be in there with that next wave. You start fighting the next wave, the Dannys, the Paulys. And I'm sure you've seen Paulie coming up. Amir Khan. You've seen Paulie coming up. Yeah. Was y 'all cool? I just fought with him in the gym. That's crazy. I was always a dominant force to him. That's crazy. But it's just, you got to remember, Dre. I was I was I was the favorite Dre I was a I was a boxing people's favorite but I wasn't a fan I wasn't a favorite to boxing because a lot of these young fighters I'm fighting they would they sign with the big promoters they sign with the big things so I'm taking opportunity versus just having a career fighting you know what I'm saying I'm going to so I had super super junior promotions I started my own promotion company and I'm going to go I'm going to Al.

50:54I'm going to the, I'm having personal conversations. Yo, Al, what's up? Who you got? I got, they got Danny. How much you got? You got how much? Two point, let's go. Yeah. So, you know, I'm making my own deals at this time right now. You know what I'm saying? Oh, no manager? Pops ain't doing it no more? Well, yeah, I mean, us. When I say that, I mean us. But you're taking more of a, I'm taking the initiative to step up and say, you know what I'm saying? Wait, who we got? You know, Pop might come back, yo, they got, who else they got? send the list, send the list at me. I want to see everybody now.

51:26You know, matter of fact, give me the phone. Yo, what's up? Hey, what's up? We talking. You know, Oscar, what's up? I'm going to Golden Boy to the office, sitting down with him, one-on-one. Yo, Oscar, what you got? This is when you see the pictures of me in his office with all the belts and all that. I'm not there because I'm a Golden Boy fighter. I was never a Golden Boy fighter. I was fighting against these guys. But I'm going to make my deal happen. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to top rank to go sit down with Bob, what's up? What you got for me? Yeah. What you got for me? Who you got?

51:58Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, the Cordo fight was made All-Star Weekend, NBA All-Star Weekend in Vegas. Remember NBA All-Star Weekend in Vegas? That's when he made the Cordo fight and shortly after that I was fighting him. Yeah. But I made that fight happen that weekend. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yo, listen, yo, NBA All-Star Weekend, this is big. Oh yeah, I can get you some tickets. Bob tell me, I'll get you some tickets. Yeah, I need some bread too because it's crazy out here. I'm staying out here. You can get me a hotel. Yeah, I'll get you a hotel. I start partying, Dre.

52:35You know what I'm saying? I'm not thinking about, I just got the Miguel Cordo fight. I'm getting ready to, you know what I'm saying? I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking about, yo, listen. I got a nice little, I got some nice change I just got from him. I just cut a big deal,$3 million deal that I'm going to get on the Cordo fight. it's going to be in New York City, big. I'm not thinking about that. We all start a week in Vegas, baby. I got tickets to the fight. I mean, tickets to the game. I'm going to have a good time. After I finish this, I'm going to get home and get the training. You know what I'm saying?

53:05So a lot of stuff I was doing, Dre, I was doing it, making it happen myself. You know what I'm saying? It was no more handlers. You know what I'm saying? The greatest thing, you know, you had Jada. You had a smart guy that had a big bag that was like, oh, no, we're not going for that. You know what I mean? We don't got to take that. See, a lot of times, Dre, the reason why I was forced to take the things, because I didn't have it, Dre. I had to go in. I need that. I had just got set down for two years from boxing, from Costa Zoo, from Floyd. Remember, during that year, your money go low, low, low, low, low, low.

53:41Because you still living the same lifestyle. Money going out, no money coming in. No money coming in. Yeah. You're still living that same lifestyle, but all the money going out, no money coming in. No, all them bills are still potting up. Now, if I'm fighting two times a year, I can still live like that because I got a bag coming in. I can still spend out and another bag coming in at the end of the year. You know what I'm saying? I can still live like how I want to live, but there's no bag coming in for the whole year. And I'm still spending out. Still got this big house. I still got all these cars.

54:09I still got my lifestyle. I still got these kids. You know what I'm saying? That ain't going nowhere. Ain't going nowhere. Yeah. So when you forced to do that, now when you're eligible again, you got to take what you can take. It's a tough spot to be in. It's a tough spot to be in, man. And they know it, too. And they know it. And that's why they offer you things like that. They know it, too. That's why they offer you things like that. And that's why they put you in that position. We got Zab, but we got Zab by itself. We don't got Zab with a strong Don King team behind him. You know what I'm saying?

54:38We don't got that. We got him by itself. It's him and his dad and his homies. And we know he been off, so the next thing they go, he need money. He need money. He need the money. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So when I'm going to Bob, yeah, I'm about to make three, man. Yo, Bob, let me get some shame. I got a buck 50 for you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? What's going to go against your purse? Like an advance. It's like an advance. And you're thinking, a buck 50, that's good money. Yeah. Let me get that. You know what I'm saying? As soon as you ask for that advance, though, they know what time it is.

55:12They know what time it is. As soon as you ask for that advance, they know what time it is. Your pockets are low. I ain't even want to ask for no training expenses, bro. I'm like, man, because even that, like, it's normal. It's normal. 90 % of fighters do it, but I was like, I don't even want y 'all. I don't want y 'all friending me nothing. Right, right. I'm going to take this out of my business account. This is just going to be a business expense. I'm going to write it off. And then another thing, Dre, I wasn't a business guy. Yeah. I'm not ashamed to say that sitting here right now. Really? When I was younger, I wasn't a business guy.

55:41Wasn't thinking like that. I was from Brownsville. I was from Brooklyn. I was just, you get money, you spend money. New car come out, you buy that. Big house, I live in that. I lived around the corner from Puffy. And close to New Jersey. You know what I'm saying? You know how, come on, we know how Puff lives, but he can afford that. He can live like that. I mean, at the time, I was affording it. I could live like that too. You know what I'm saying? But he had a business. I ain't have a business. My business was boxing fight to fight. You know what I'm saying? When you get low, it's time to fight.

56:10It get low, time to fight. Yeah, I had little adventures and, you know, business adventures stores and this and that, little rim shops and car dealers. You know what I'm saying? I had to, but that's not making the money it's supposed to make to sustain on what you're doing. Yeah. I don't got my account set up coming in, going out the way that it should be. Yeah. I don't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have that. Yeah, we got to be taught, man. Yeah. It's tough when you come from nothing. Yep. To be thrust into that. Yep. You got to really either have somebody there to teach you and help you. You don't have to, or you got to also study on your own and really do the research.

56:44And that can be tough, too. Like, you do have off time. And what our off season is is in between fights to study and, you know, get into that kind of thing. But it's not a given, though. It's not easy. And people say, oh, these athletes, this and that. It's like, man, it's so many things with finances, bro. And they always say, just save your money. Saving ain't enough. You got to invest. But then invest in the what vehicles? How much do I put in that vehicle? what type of return am I getting? Then we talking about taxes. You know, I'm self-employed, so I got to put my money to the side. I'm not a W-2 employee where they just going to take it out and make it easy.

57:20If I make a million dollars, depending on what state you're in, I got to put that 35 % aside now because that's going to get spent. Do you know that and do you have the discipline to do that? Right? All these different things, man. So many layers to athletes just blow their money because, and then budgeting, that's the whole thing. Here's my monthly expenses. These are my variable expenses. Needs from want... Bro, this stuff can just go in terms of finances. It's hard. Now, you know, my biggest thing, all that's great. My biggest thing, listening. I had people tell me all that. So you did have people.

57:55I had people tell me that. They told me that. You wasn't listening. Listening. First of all, you get a bag, Dre. Big, big bag. This guy posted, hey, I'm an investor, and you can give me... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me$3 million out of your money and I'll give you back a monthly... What did you just say, my guy? You're going to take all my money and give me an expense money back? Nah, it don't go like that. But who was telling you? Huh? Who was telling you? Business people. I'm sitting down with business people. So you had solid people giving you advice? I had solid people giving me solid advice.

58:27It was for me to listen to me. I still had the street mentality. What? Nah, dude. I can invest my money. I can do my own investment. How much would you say? Yo, give us the$3 million. We're going to give you this. Monthly, you're going to get this back. That don't sound good. So I'm going to give you my$3 million, and you're going to give me what? You know what I'm saying? I'm going to give you$50 ,000 a month back. That don't sound right. That don't sound good. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because why? I wasn't schooled or educated on that type of situation. I was a boxer, Dre. I was a good boxer.

59:02I finished high school. You know what I'm saying? I did a semester in college, but it wasn't for me. I was already going to be champ of the world. You know, I went to college chasing each girl. You know what I'm saying? Doing something silly. You know what I mean? So I said, you know what? This ain't for me. Let me full-stime into the game. You know what I'm saying? So those fundamentals of what I should have learned, I didn't get it. You know, I heard it. I seen it. The paperwork was put in front of me. But we're not doing that. We're not doing that. Why every time I get a big bag, this dude with this fancy suit pop up?

59:35That's what I want to know. You know what I'm saying? Telling me this is what I should do and this is what I should put my money out. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. Then when I did do it, I did it one time. I had some accountants. They ran the muck on me. They ran the muck. That means, you know what I'm saying? And problems. I'm like, you know what, see? That's why I didn't want to do it. That's why I didn't want to do it. And before I go catch 25 to life, let me just stay away from stuff like this. Stay away from people like this. You know what I'm saying? and then moving forward, that's the way I said.

1:00:06If I'm going to do something with my money, I'm going to be able to leave it in an account where I can watch it and I'm going to put it into what I want to put it into. And we all know that don't work out. It's tough lessons, man. Tough lessons. You pick, you pick a little bit, you keep picking a little bit, you keep picking a little bit, you keep picking a little bit. A trip over here, a car over here, a house over here, a clothes. Then you look at the account like, where my money at? What the? Man, get them people on the phone, man. Let's do another fight. Mm-hmm. Real talk. Man, bro, it's real talk.

1:00:38Real talk. You know, we all got to deal with that. We all got moments we wish we could have back financially, man. But, you know, I hope the youngsters are listening out there, man. Hope y 'all listening. Yeah, I hope y 'all listening, man. Free game that came from experience, man. Word, it's real talk. Not from no book. It's real talk. Right. Now, after the Malinagi fight, man, you took three years off. You came back and fought. Jorge Mungu, I think it is. So the reason for the Jorge Maguia fight was my mom and my aunt, they had an opportunity to promote that fight. Oh, for real? Boss Lady Promotions.

1:01:10I remember that. Yeah. I remember that. Yep, yep. My aunt Renee and my mother, they promoted my fight in New Jersey. Yeah, I remember that. You know what I mean? So I got kids to come back and let them shine, too, while I shine, too. So that was the reason for the Jorge Maguia fight. And then you fought two more times, and then your last fight was coming off another layoff. This time it was 17 months layoff, and this was Cletus Selden. Mm-hmm. And you got stopped in the 11th round. Was it true that you checked yourself into the hospital? Or did somebody, did they take you to the hospital? I got taken to the hospital because, um...

1:01:42What were you feeling? My mother, actually, we were sitting together. You know, my mom, that's my road dog. She's, that's my heart. She knows her baby, too. She know me like a book. She know everything coming out of my mouth. She know this. We sitting there, and I told her, I said, I think I need to go to the doctor. She's like, this boy don't go, dad don't do doctors. He don't do doctors. He don't do hospital. He don't do that unless it's detrimental. You know what I'm saying? And I said, I think I need to go to the hospital. She said, what? I said, my head. I said, my head is spinning. I just feel, I feel, I feel like I don't know.

1:02:17I just feel wet. Boom, boom. Then my eyes started doing, my eyes started just going low. And she looking at me like, oh, come on, let's go. Next thing I knew, I was in the car, going to the hospital. I just remember going to the hospital, talking to the people, getting the thing. They put me on the gurney, thing like that. And when I laid back, Dre, when I woke up again, my twin boys was next to me. That's all I remember. Brain bleed. Brain bleed. Damn, bro. That's your biggest fear as a fighter. Yeah. It's not getting knocked out. It's that brain bleeding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you get, you woke up and your boys are there.

1:03:00Could you talk? Yeah, I could talk. I could talk. I was coherent. Did you know where you were? I knew where I was at. Did you remember you had just fought? I remember the fight. I remember everything. I remember clearly everything. I remember everything. I did so good, J. I got discharged from the hospital. I read that. Couple days later, I got discharged from the hospital. I go home, living regular life, doing everything regular. 30 days to that day. So let's just say, I want to remember that it was in June. I think it was like June 8th was the fight. July 8th, the same exact day. I'm downtown Brooklyn.

1:03:36I'm over by with my homies in the projects, in Fort Green Projects. My neurologist is right down the street. Hit the building in Brooklyn Hospital. Right down the street. I'm saying names because people are going to know. I'm in Fort Green Projects, me and Chase out there and I'm like, Man, my head is killing me, bro. My head is killing me. He like, yo, go get a motion or something like that. I'm like, nah, this ain't no motion. This is bigger than the motion. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, he like, what? I got up by myself, walked to my neurologist. I walked over. Now, as I'm walking to the doctor, I'm getting these thunderbolts going through my head.

1:04:14Like, I'm like, oh, it's almost like contractions. Like, if you were a pregnant woman, you watch her. She'll go through the, ah, ah, and then stop. Calm down, calm down, calm down. And then go, ah. That's how it was going through my head. But as I'm walking, so I'm speeding up to walk. I go to the doctor, Dr. Cohen. Go upstairs. He look at me. First of all, he had a packed office. His office is packed full. I'm like, Dr. Cohen, yo, I need some pain pills, something for my, I got a bad, bad, bad, bad headache. He looked at me, he like, you don't look too good. I'm like, I see my head just hurt.

1:04:54If you give me some pain pills or something like that, I could, you know, just let me take some pain pills and then, you know, I'm gonna go home and lay down. He said, nah, let's go get a CAT scan. He took me downstairs, we do a CAT scan. Do a CAT scan, you know, just take a while. Maybe just took like 25, 30 minutes. He come down there, he looking at the charts. of your cat skin. He looking like... He ain't even talking to me. I'm sitting right there. He usually be talking to me. That look you don't want to see in a doctor's face. Right, right. He looking like... And then... He like... Like, did you have a hard time waking up today?

1:05:34I'm like, no, no. I just got a bad headache, bad headache. He like, did you have a hard time sleeping or anything? I said, no, no. I slept fine. I slept good. He like... He says, Ab, this is bad. He said, He said, we got to have emergency brain surgery right now. He said, we got to have emergency surgery right now. And I'm like, man, this man, I need some pain pills. I'm trying to just make some pain pills. I'm going to go home and take them later. He said, do you want to die? He never talked to me like that. Do you want to die? Die. What are you talking about? That's what I know. I was laying on the table getting my brain opened up.

1:06:15What happened this time? my brain was moving over was pushing over it was a big gap in it a big gap being pushed over being pushed over to the brain so the pressure from the pressure from the right side was pushing my brain over to the left side so what normally happens like this is a brain aneurysm happens a vessel goes off in your head a bunch of blood shoot out you don't catch it it floods your head with a bun What a button? You just drop there and go. You know, I catch it. He caught it in time and seen it. He said, we got to go right now. I go under the knife, no mom, no pops, no brothers, no nobody.

1:06:56Remember, I walked from the projects over there by myself. They got my phone, all that stuff. They was able to make the call after I'm under the knife. All I remember was waking up in the surgical room. I had tubes hanging out my head. My head was like this. My head was like a pumpkin. So, you know, in the ICU, there is no mirrors. There's no mirrors in there. It's just like a two-way glass where you can see in and see out. So, dude, I can see the reflection. I can see my head, Dre. I'm like, I'm like, ah, ah, what the, ah, what? He didn't tell you it was going to be like that? Dre, I didn't get to see.

1:07:34He didn't tell me a lot. He said, we got to go now, Zab. He knew, he knew. Dr. Cohen, I love that man. That's my guy. Saved your life. Saved my life. Anderson Cohen. That's my guy. I love that guy. You know what I'm saying? He saved my life. You know what I'm saying? Top, top, top neurologist out of New York City. Top guy. I love that guy. You know what I'm saying? He got me down. He got me right. Now I wake up. Pops and all of them are there. Everybody's, you know, they came. You know, everybody done came. My mother, she's in North Carolina. She's panicking. She's going. Forget about it. She almost go out, have an attack, and she's like, what?

1:08:13She's in Carolina. She's panicking. She's trying to get to New York. Quick pops in there. I wake up. They get on the phone. I talk to her. I'm saying, I'm cool. I think I'm cool. I think I'm cool. You know what I'm saying? Just long story short, I have my operation. I'm in the ICU now, and now I'm recovering. Man, bro, that's a powerful story. This is my last one for you, bro. You know, that was your last fight. You ever flirty with coming back? After what happened? A lot, Dre. I ain't saying what's in your mind. I'm saying like phone call.

1:08:48So last year, so it's been what, eight years since that happened. Yeah. Last year, I got another Cats game for my thing. And I'm going to send it to you because I want everybody to see it. You know, my brain is back, hell.

1:09:10My neurologist called me Wolverine. He said, I never seen nobody heal like this. This is a big success. Crazy story. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man. It was crazy, Dre. It was crazy. Man, you got a lot of other things to live for, man. You're doing a great job with your kids, man. I love to talk to you the way we talking right now, man. You look good. You sound good. We always gonna miss the game. You know what I mean? but, you know, we made it out. We made it out. And we got to keep walking on that path, man. Yeah. You know what I mean? We're going to get it in again, bro. I appreciate you, man.

1:09:47Yeah, you know it. Speaking with one of the legends in the game, that's another episode of The Art of War. Appreciate y 'all.

1:10:08Thank you.