After Putin Summit, Trump Meets with Zelenskyy

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0:54Welcome to The Beat, everyone. I'm Ari Melba reporting for you on a start to the week that picks up with a counter note to how Friday ended last week in a scene that was really, truly watched around the world, whether there were deliverables or not. Tonight, we begin with this extraordinary scene at the White House. European leaders gathering for this kind of show of support, but also what many European leaders and governments that have foreign policies at a kind of a crossroads or a disagreement with the Trump foreign policy doctrines, what they view as a kind of allied intervention. They want to persuade President Trump to continue to stand up for democracy, whatever aspects of the NATO alliance they can convince him are valuable, and quite specifically, the defense and livelihood of the man standing to the president's right who demonstrates the current longest and many say most courageous stand against the aggressive invasion by Vladimir Putin.

1:57Now, this began with Ukraine President Zelensky arriving for these talks. This is the first Oval Office meeting those two leaders have had since the now infamous and unusual clash they held before the cameras inside the Oval Office. Now, whatever you think of Donald Trump's policies and style, it is not enough to go through the world repeating the same view when the facts or situations change. And so while many people allied with Ukraine are still very critical of what Trump did on Friday, seeming to give Putin the world stage without getting anything back, and his overall approach to this war, in contrast to these two men's last infamous meeting today, was diplomatic, at times even cordial and warm.

2:40Some of that because of Zelensky's effort, which of course reflects every talent and energy he has to do whatever he can to move Donald Trump, to move this leader of the United States towards Ukraine's side right now, but it was in all ways a more traditional and more cordial meeting. Both leaders also discussed how the next step in ending this war, which Russia started, must ultimately mean some step towards a ceasefire and some sort of direct diplomacy with Friday's summit star, Vladimir Putin. I think if everything works out well today, we'll have a trilateral. We are ready for trilateral, as President said.

3:20This is a good signal about trilateral. I just spoke to President Putin indirectly, and we're going to have a phone call right after these meetings today. And we may or may not have a trilateral. The Trilat, as it's known in shorthand at Foggy Bottom in the State Department, is those three countries together. And again, while there are many people critical of Donald Trump's approach here, he doesn't have to hold meetings with anyone. Bookending Friday's unusual summit with today's more traditional White House diplomacy, one-on-one with Zelensky and then meeting with the other leaders, does reflect a kind of a balancing.

3:55As to those leaders, it was France, UK, and some other big European nations, kind of a NATO light style gathering, emphasizing across the board that they want to stand up to Putin, who is a dictator, and behind Ukraine as it fights on and on year after year for its survival. We are all united here with Ukraine on this. The bravery of Ukrainians and with the unity that we all provided. It's team Europe and team United States helping Ukraine. That's the view from those other leaders who are close to it and who have a very real world sense of the way that Vladimir Putin seeks to dominate the theater of foreign policy that they occupy.

4:40Now, at one point, Trump paused the meeting to step out and call Putin throughout the day. Trump also talked about his confidence in Vladimir Putin on all this. And then there was what appeared to be a hot mic moment, something that everyone in politics or media or any mic'd activity knows about, which is there are rules and regimens, especially at these kind of summits, because the leaders want to sometimes say things into the mic to the world, and other times, very clearly not. So what we saw, we're going to show you, it appeared to be something that Donald Trump didn't necessarily want to say to the world, but he was heard discussing that the Russian leader Putin does, in his estimation, still want a deal.

5:19I think he wants to make a deal. You understand that? As crazy as it sounds. As crazy as it sounds. We are joined now by Rick Stengel, former Undersecretary of State under President Obama, and Elise Labatt, longtime foreign correspondent, host of the Cosmopolitics podcast. Welcome to both of you. Rick, walk us through what matters about the gathering today. and at the risk of oversimplifying, maybe Friday was a little more pageantry and today had a little more, at least meat on the bone publicly because we could hear the leaders talk more. What is to be understood from that shift from Friday to today?

5:59So, Ari, I'm going to begin where you ended with the Trump quote, as crazy as it sounds, because I just want to pause for a second and talk about how unorthodox, i.e. crazy, the whole day is. The fact that it starts with Zelensky arriving and holding a press conference before they've had a conversation. This has now become sort of normalized behavior. This is extraordinarily dumb and terrible negotiating because you're giving your position away in advance. It puts whoever you're talking to in a horrible position. And this has now become a kind if foundation of Trump negotiation. It's poetic and ironic that all of these European leaders came over.

6:44I think it's great to describe it as an intervention, which is what it is. But remember, all of this started with the idea back in 2014 that Ukraine wanted to become part of Europe and maybe eventually part of the European Union. And Yanukovych, the president, was overruled by Putin. He fled. The demonstration started. And then Ukraine and then Russia annexed Crimea. That's the genesis of all of this. And by the way, that's why this makes Putin nervous, because Putin has spent his career doing other things, trying to keep the U.S. separate from Europe, to cleave between the two. And now you have all these European leaders.

7:27And And by the way, that's why it's an intervention, because they said, we don't want that to happen. We don't want to be away from the United States. We need to help Zelensky. And by the way, they can be very helpful to Zelensky because they can take a position that he can then say the Europeans are forcing on me. I can go back to the Ukrainians because the Ukrainian public is not going to go for a land swap. Yeah. And you look at that discussion. Does Putin get even more land? Does he get rewarded? whether it was the world stage Friday, at least, or a wider perception that he's really good at this.

8:02And again, to be clear, if you put aside the oddities of the Trump era, Vladimir Putin had his way with other leaders and Democratic administrations to the point that people said, we need a reset. And there he goes again. And prior, more traditional Republican presidents, I believe, all those of us old enough to remember Bush saying, you know, he looked into his eyes and he's a good man. Into his eyes, he saw his soul. So I stole. Thank you. Even better memory than me. And yet at the home front, as this has absorbed from Friday night, there are plenty of people saying, what was Trump getting in the United States by proxy getting out of Friday?

8:39So I want to play that view on Fox for you and then get your view on everything tonight. The way that it felt in the room was not good. It did not seem like things went well, and it seemed like Putin came in and steamrolled, got right into what he wanted to say, and got his photo next to the president and then left. It was clear not much was accomplished. No ceasefire, no details, no questions from the press. We do have a person on the other side. Up to now, hasn't made a single concession of any consequence. at least yeah i mean a hundred percent you don't need to have people like rick stengel talk about it listen to trump's own base um on fox news talk about how he didn't get anything look ari this didn't even need to be a summit it could have been a phone call because everyone knew you know i don't i don't really think trump went into that meeting understanding that putin wasn't ready for a cease fire.

9:38He wasn't ready to make a deal. I think he wasn't really served by his envoy, Steve Whitcoff. And I don't think the world rehabilitated. He didn't rehabilitate Putin in the eyes of the world. They still see Putin for who it is. It might have rehabilitated him at home. I think, if anything, it hurt Trump more than it helped Putin. But listen, today, I think Trump went into that meeting with a little confidence with Putin. He was talking about wanting a ceasefire, talking about consequences. And then as a Fox correspondent said, he got steamrolled. And, you know, it's not the first U.S. president to be steamrolled, but I think Trump was intimidated by Putin.

10:19And he's talking about, I don't think a ceasefire is a good idea. Ari, let's just be honest. He couldn't get the ceasefire. It's not that he doesn't want it. It's not that he wouldn't take it. He can't get it. So now he's trying to spin it around. I think that Zelensky handled himself well today. I think he was, you know, as you said, kind of on his best behavior, brought that letter from his wife to Melania Trump. He wore a suit. I think the Europeans, as much as they were coming to support Zelensky, as Rick said, I think they're also coming to back Trump up, to give Trump the confidence to say to him, and I'm sure that was in the meeting, we've got your back.

11:01We are united. You heard, I don't remember, I couldn't see the back of his head saying, it's team U.S. and team Europe. We're one team together. And I think that Trump, as much as Zelensky needs it, Trump needs it as well. Rick, how about that point and the fact of geo strategy, which you've worked on, reported for a long time, but also done it inside the State Department, that these other countries don't have the luxury of thinking about a midterm or resistance strategies. They must deal with the U.S. as it is. And it's a Trump administration in the middle of what has become a very protracted war.

11:42Yes, I think Elise's point was super smart. what the Europeans are coming to give Trump some support, some ballast for a position that may be against what Putin wants. I mean, again, my head was shaking today just where an American president says, you know, I'm going to have these conversations with you, but then let me get on the horn and talk to the Russian president about it and see, you know, I'm calling my daddy to find out what's going on. It's just say the same thing. I'm sorry. He did say the same thing to Putin about Zelensky that said, I'm going to get on the horn. Of course, he didn't call him in the middle of the meeting.

12:19But did he? But at least Europeans. But but at least did he call him daddy? he might have i i he might have go ahead i don't know i don't know how i mean and obviously donald trump is obsessed with appearing strong i don't understand how it appears strong to have to call the russian president and say hey here let me tell you what's going on and what's your reaction to it the other thing that's so insane about this and and elise knows this and our you know it is that any international negotiation, if it gets to an agreement, the agreement is made behind the scenes and then you have the public meeting to ratify the agreement.

13:01That's what was so strange about the fiasco in Alaska is that it seems like there was absolutely no preparation. And by the way, today, it seems like there's absolutely no preparation. I mean, the Europeans prepared, Zelensky prepared, but Trump seems every day there's a meeting, he seems to find out something that he didn't know before that everybody else knows. Yeah, the Russians want land. No, the Russians don't want a ceasefire. I mean, it's really, the reason nothing gets done is because he doesn't know what even the framework of the discussion is. Well, and that he's freelancing it and he doesn't exactly have a war and peace cabinet that has the confidence of the civil service or the Pentagon.

13:48So, you know, the people who might be real close to it in his ear, some of them aren't even on the plane in the case of the Pentagon chief on Friday. So all of that is important. Elise, we appreciate both your fairness about the point that technically he was running these plays by both sides. He wants to be this seen as a kind of Nobel level honest broker, even though all of Europe is concerned that Trump is more of a more on the Putin side of it. And we appreciate both of your bon homie about what was a harmless daddy reference amidst these serious times. Rick and Elise, thank you both. Appreciate you guys.

14:22Good to be with you. When we come, absolutely, when we come back, Bill Barr, who of course was overseeing the Bureau of Prisons when Jeffrey Epstein died, has rushed to go first in telling his side of the story now that the Epstein subpoenas are finally landing on Republicans. What's up with that? Joyce Vance, one of the greatest prosecutor experts you could get is my special guest later. But first, an Obama diplomat on what we just were talking about and what pressure is building on Trump as he continues to hold himself out as the big broker when we return in 90 seconds. Most ice cream is good, but not Jenny's.

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16:29For when you're stuck in meetings or need a post-workout recovery. Available in chocolate, vanilla cream, cookies and cream, and strawberries and cream. Try the new great-tasting muscle milk today. Available in stores nationwide. Muscle milk. Protein for all. You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position that he happens to be right about. From the very beginning of the war. You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. I'm not playing cards. Right now, you don't know. You're playing cards.

17:00I'm wearing serious, Mr. President. I'm wearing serious. We're not playing cards. We are a long ways tonight, as Zelensky and Trump have just met for the first time since that now infamous clash. And we're joined by Evo Daldar. He's a longtime geopolitics expert and served as U.S. ambassador to NATO under President Obama. Of course, the alliance that is so central to what we witnessed today. I have questions, Evo. But first, just give us your breakdown of what was important about today. I think the most important thing today is that seven very senior European leaders decided to stand side by side with President Zelensky and basically sent the message to President Trump.

17:40You need to choose. You're going to be with Putin or you're going to be with us? Because we know where we stand and we're going to be here and we're going to do whatever it takes to help Ukraine. And we would love to have you on our side. We will say all kinds of nice things to you to have you on our side. but you need to decide. What happened on Friday was not according to the playbook that we had discussed. So you need to come back to our side. And I think that is a very important message. I have no idea whether it will work, but it is a message that needed to be sent. How coordinated is that?

18:13How far back does that kind of thing go? Well, it's coordinated in some sense. It goes back to February of 2022. The Western response, the European response, and the U.S. response, the Canadian response, to the full-scale invasion has put all of these countries together in lockstep until January 20, 2025, when the president of the United States, now Donald Trump, decided that he would, in 24 hours, end a war without really understanding what this war is about, which is not about territory. It's fundamentally about Russia's need and desire to control Ukraine through territorial conquest, but much more importantly, by deciding what the future of Ukraine looks like.

19:02That's what this war is about. And as a result, we know the Europeans get that. They understand that what is happening in Ukraine is a direct threat to European security. And by the way, any threat to European security, as we have learned in the 20th century, is a direct threat to American security. So the challenge that we now have is to get the president of the United States back onto where we were to understand that Russia is the problem. Ukraine is our friend. It needs to be defended. It needs to be supported. And Russia needs to be opposed. Don't have summits with him. Don't jump on phone calls every five minutes unless the message is, Vladimir, stop.

19:46And by the way, something that he posted not that long ago. Indeed, stop. Stop what you're doing and start a serious negotiation to resolve this issue. We learn things when we see these leaders together, even when, as we showed the last time, it was quite a clash. But you got kind of an unvarnished peek window into Trump's worldview and how Zelensky tried to parry that. They clearly came back on both sides, as I said, to be quite clear and fair and accurate, trying to have a more diplomatic exchange today. Then Trump can't help himself. And when they're discussing the very serious issues around who's leading Ukraine during a war, whose duration Russia is in very much in charge of, Trump couldn't help himself.

20:31And I want to play this moment and get your take. So you say during the war, you can't have elections. So let me just say, three and a half years from now, so you mean if we happen to be in a war with somebody, but no more elections. Oh, I wonder what the fake... You like this idea. No, no, no. What do you see there? So if the United States, every city from Boston to Phoenix to San Francisco to Washington, New York, and everything in between is bombed every night by an adversary. When we are planning to go to an election, maybe we postpone them. But that's not what the president was talking about.

21:15We're not being bombed. We can't be comparing ourselves to what's going on in Ukraine. And it's not a funny thing, what's happening either in Ukraine and the fact that it can't have elections. The reason it can't have elections is because 20 % of the country is occupied by an invader. If we were occupied and invaded by God knows who, maybe Canada, I guess, and we were losing that war, then perhaps we could have this discussion. But this is far too serious to joke about. There are already enough questions about whether we will have a good free and fair election in 2026 and indeed in 2028 to start making jokes about this one.

21:57Yeah. Important points there, Ambassador. Thank you. I'll tell folks what's coming up. The Epstein scandal is hitting Bill Barr, and he was forced under oath today, but is that what he wanted to do? We're going to get into that with Joyce Vance and the D.C. protests. But first, there is the Putin manipulation game, and we're going to get into that next.

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23:38We are living through a very pivotal period here in the Russia-Ukraine conflict, even though the President of the United States seems to very clearly be making it up as he is going along. The evidence for that is Donald Trump's own words. How could you ever justify vowing all these sanctions or punishments, consequences for Vladimir Putin one week and walking them all back the next week as a plan? That's not something any rational actor would plan to do. And thus, it looks like it wasn't the plan. Judge for yourself. Will Russia face any consequences if Vladimir Putin does not agree to stop the war after your meeting on Friday?

24:27Yes, they will. There will be consequences. Sanctions, tariffs? I don't have to say. There will be very severe consequences. Last week, you warned of what you called severe consequences. If a 30-day ceasefire or any type of ceasefire were not agreed to by Russia, will there be severe consequences? Does that change because I don't think you need a ceasefire? Yes, there'll be consequences. No, apparently there won't be. And he pivots to saying you don't need a ceasefire. So this is obviously not a strategy, not an intentional plan. It might be damage control for Trump not delivering what he thought would be easier, which is getting something out of Putin.

25:08And as we've been covering tonight, but what merits a lot more energy and understanding, both in our country but really around the world, is this is something that Putin is effective at. And so as he continues to invade and bomb Ukraine and kill people and pose a wider threat to the NATO alliance and maybe the U.S., we are better served understanding this than just walking away from it. Experts talk about the former KGB officer's ability to manipulate, lie, and wield influence, even among the savvy world leaders that we deal with. Putin honed his skills at throwing opponents off balance during his KGB career.

25:45He's since become adept at gauging the vulnerabilities of each leader he meets. The Post reports today, there was that hot bike moment as well. Take a listen.

25:56I think he wants to make a deal for him. Do you understand that? I'm as crazy as it sounds. that might offer a window into what Putin has convinced Trump is true. Both men have been caught lying about all kinds of things. But the nature of that statement on the mic is fascinating, and we wanted to dig in a little deeper with John Seifer, a former CIA official who served in Moscow. Welcome. Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks. What do you see there? Well, I think you put it well up front. The problem is that Trump doesn't really understand these issues He doesn't seem to have core values. And so everybody is trying to influence him.