AG Bondi Hit with Epstein Subpoena

18:20Howard Dean:And Texas, you know, Texas is different, but they're not that different. And they want the same things everybody else does. I think Tallarico is a young face, articulate, smart. And I think he's tuned into what Texas voters want. I think they're sick of the corruption of Paxton and they're tired of the Washington centric corn. So I think we've got a shot there. I really do. Yeah, it's funny. I think we've got a shot in Ohio. I think we've got a shot in Iowa, not just North Carolina and Maine and so forth. You think the Democrats could win the Senate? Absolutely. I think they can. I think we will win the House and I think we very well could win the Senate.

18:56Howard Dean:But we've got to understand the Beltway is not where you win elections. You win elections by knocking on doors like Tallarico did in the suburbs and in the cities and talking to voters and not getting consultants from Washington to tell you how to run your campaign. Right.

19:13Pam Bondi:And there are so many things that are nonpartisan, but because politics involves parties fighting, obviously that gets more of the attention. This problem that we've seen both parties have of keeping people in office past the sell-by date, the question of whether is Donald Trump getting better or worse at his job as he goes from 80 to 84? Is he more or less focused? These type of questions that are fair game, as they were back when people asked about Reagan's age and acuity, also affect people like Cornyn, where you say, oh, so this is the Republican solution. You keep these people in forever.

19:47Pam Bondi:I want to show you one more factoid before I lose you. Washington Post looked at the voter enthusiasm. This is one of those reliable indicators, more so than horse race polling over time. What do you see here?

20:00Howard Dean:I think it's great numbers, but a lot of it reflects a very negative opinion of Trump rather than a positive effect on opinion of the Democrats. We have got to continue to do a better job connecting with people. And we, you know, Sherrod Brown has always been good. Cooper's great in North Carolina. Tallarico looks like a rising star in Texas. But we've got to remember, the election is not going to be won with big donors in Washington, D.C. Consultant. It's going to be won in the towns and in the cities. And candidates have to get out there and make their case. And they should not pay attention to what consultants are telling them to do.

20:38Howard Dean:If they're any good, they feel what they should be doing. And that's what the Democrats, That's what young candidates are doing, and I think it's very exciting.

20:46Pam Bondi:Really interesting. Governor Howard Dean, former DNC chair, thank you for being here. We covered a lot of ground, I think. Donald Trump, I'll tell you what's coming up next. Donald Trump would like everyone to focus on Iran or something other than the Epstein files. So imagine his anger that it is Republicans this week joining Democrats, subpoenaing Attorney General Bondi over the Trump administration's botched Epstein files. That story is next.

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22:36Pam Bondi:The Trump DOJ's bungled, probably illegal response to the law requiring the release of the Epstein files is back in the news tonight because of Republicans who are not taking AG Pan Bondi or Trump at their word, essentially. a committee just hours ago voting to subpoena Attorney General Bondi. Five Republicans voted yes. They didn't even stall or say, with everything going on in the world, we need a few more weeks. No, this is barreling back at the Trump DOJ. It's one day after lawmakers also dialed up the heat and requested new interviews from seven others implicated in the case from the files that have come out.

23:15Pam Bondi:Mind you, a lot of these people were in the files that the DOJ had for years because they're old files. It's only the public disclosure that's putting on the heat. There's a new report in the tens of thousands of documents have also been removed, that is to say withheld or possibly illegally hidden by the DOJ. CBS has been combing through this. They found about 65 ,000 pages were there and removed. The Wall Street Journal reports it's about 47 ,000 total files if you're counting the original file metric. The DOJ says they're actually under review and they could be ready for reproduction by the end of the week.

23:49Pam Bondi:Remember, all of this was on a legal deadline that they broke. Then they came in late. Then they pulled it back. At a minimum, this is a bungled, failed process of the transparency that Donald Trump ran on back in 24 and a law that he signed. And at most, it may be an illegal coverup. Lawmakers have been demanding the documents. The DOJ wants to say they're done with this document production. The problem is they've taken down documents.

24:18Howard Dean:There is zero reason why Pam Bondi and the DOJ right now are withholding those documents unless they don't want us to see them. And they're essentially part of this cover up. I think that the Department of Justice has been in a cover up mode for many months.

24:34Pam Bondi:That's the pressure. We are joined by New York Times opinion writer Molly Jong-Fass and law professor Melissa Murray. Professor Murray, this is real pressure with Republicans joining in, whatever their motivations. What do you see happening tonight?

24:48Ari Melber:So I think there's a lot going on here. The fact that Boebert and Mace are involved in this and Mace really led the charge here. I mean, these are two of the women in the Republican caucus who have been really vociferous about their complaints, their grievances with Mike Johnson's leadership and with the president and with the handling of this particular matter. And they really brought it. And this was after Attorney General Pamela Joe Bondi said that she would actually be willing to brief the committee on this. And they were like, nope, we're going to stay and we're going to have an actual subpoena, which would force a closed door deposition, which would mean that Attorney General Bondi probably would not be able to engage in the kind of real housewives theatrics that we've seen in her other congressional testimony.

25:26Ari Melber:This would be a much more focused inquiry, real questions, and she wouldn't be able to fall back on some of those talking points that she's done in past testimony.

25:33Pam Bondi:Molly, I want to kind of turn to you on the existential part of this. People say, what is reality? Does anything matter? People look at Trump, who's gotten away with certain things, and they say, maybe nothing matters. Or, oh, it's naive and cute that you even think that anything's going to come out. And yet a lot of documents have come out. And then the ones they were hiding and messing up on their cover up got caught relatively quickly because we still have some working journalists and investigators and whatnot. And so I'm curious where you put this on the nothing matters spectrum, because as I've emphasized, and it's worth noting, even Republicans putting the heat on Bondi this week.

26:13Ari Melber:Yeah. No, look, the Nancy Mays thing is big. And I talked to a member of Oversight who said that she really led the charge in this. And you have to remember these women in the House are really, really mad at Mike Johnson. OK, we saw a lot of reporting about this. They have been really mistreated. They feel they've been marginalized. And what we're seeing is real blowback here. So I actually think this really does matter. And every time that these people testify like these hearings, like remember when Les Wexner testified, he implicated Trump, right? He said Trump came to the fashion show and I didn't understand why.

26:46Ari Melber:And so every time you do this, it's a risk for these Republicans who are trying to make this go away.

26:52Pam Bondi:And then, yeah. And this goes to, you know, the problem with narratives. They're simplified and usually false.

26:59Ari Melber:Yes.

26:59Pam Bondi:So there's a narrative that Republicans let Trump get away with everything. And that happens. And then people think if you disagree with that narrative, you're letting them off the hook or you're minimizing the problem. But like, that's a problem over here if you believe in oversight in the Constitution. And yet at the same time, on this issue especially, they not only overruled him and passed the law, veto proof, but some, not all, but some of them are saying, no, we passed this law, you have to comply with it.

27:29Ari Melber:And I also think, like, if you're talking about narrative, it sure seems like this DOJ is trying to cover up. And, you know, it's almost like the cover up has become bigger than the possible crime. Well, it always becomes bigger than the possible. I mean, I think what's really striking here is that you had this law passed. One of the critiques of the law was that there weren't really penalties for noncompliance. And we saw all of the issues with the redactions, the foot dragging, with releasing the papers, the different tranches of documents that were released. And many people noted it was really up to Congress to hold the administration's feet to the fire when it came to this because there weren't teeth in the statute itself.

28:08Ari Melber:And now they're actually doing it. One of the things when you talk to victims and remember, there are so many of these survivors and they're really all together now and they're talking for the first time ever. And they have this list that Thomas Massey has of 250 people is that they're like, where are my 302s? They know what they told the FBI. And now they're like, well, that should be in the tranche of files. So where are they?

28:34Pam Bondi:Yeah. And that speaks to, again, the actual mechanics of a cover up this large or difficult. to that end, you say, oh, is it in Watergate the cover-up took on a life of its own? Here's your obligatory Watergate reference between Bondi and one of the Republicans, Massey, who has pushed back on this. Take a look.

28:59Ari Melber:Any victim who comes forward, of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800-CALL-FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years? Did you talk about Epstein? I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. You don't get a reclaim time when you don't quit when you get it. When I don't answer this question the way you want. This goes over four administrations. You don't have to go back to Biden. Let's go back to Obama. Let's go back to George Bush. This cover-up spans decades, and you are responsible for this portion of it. The girls are fighting. What else can you say?

29:38Ari Melber:But he's right. And it's a nonpartisan issue. It's every administration. And I talked to Maria Farmer. And remember, she came to the FBI in the 1990s and she said they hung up on her. And she said, you know, she was vindicated because they released her report. Well, it is something that goes back over multiple administrations. That is clear and that exchange shows it. But it comes down to this particular attorney general who was charged with releasing the files, redacting them in a responsible way. And as the victims continue to note, these redactions are shambolic in many ways, preserving the anonymity of certain individuals, but leaving the victims themselves wide open to public scrutiny.

30:19Ari Melber:And so that does seem like something the attorney general should answer for, whether it is in open court or here in this particular congressional setting. We've seen 43. The Wall Street Journal had 43 victims whose names and sometimes their addresses were in these files. And these are women who have had a lot of abuse from the Internet and have a lot have really gone through a lot of targeting, even despite the fact that they are victims.

30:44Pam Bondi:So when you look at Donald Trump, who didn't want to release the files, then said, OK, we're done here, often distracts. People can debate which thing is the master distraction or not. But this still isn't going his way. Every time you have a new subpoena, you either get the person and then you have the bondi of it all and you have the hearings and it's another day of Epstein or you drag it out with fighting over whether they'll testify. And so I'm curious, Molly, as you look at seven new people, including Bill Gates, Democratic lawyer, other big names, Bondi and Donald Trump seething in the White House that for all of his power.

31:21Pam Bondi:And these are them. He can't get off this news cycle for a week break.

31:26Ari Melber:Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting when you think about James Comer for a minute, who is the who's the head of oversight. So he calls Hillary Clinton to testify, Bill and Hillary, four hours each. And you think he thinks like this is a sort of brilliant move. But what he's done is set a precedent now. So if you want Melania, if the gavel changes hand and you want Trump and Melania and you say, well, there's no precedent for this. There, in fact, is a precedent. And I thought Hillary did a really excellent job during those hearings. She's been through them and she knows how to put it back. And Professor Murray, you love precedents.

31:59Ari Melber:Precedents and precedents. And I love all of them. But there are a lot of precedents being set. I mean, we have Howard Lutnick who is going to come in and testify. Also, I mean, there's no end to where this administration could go and which personnel in this administration should be called on to answer for either activities that are disclosed in the files or the handling of the files themselves.

32:19Pam Bondi:And was it not Nas who said, I'm out for precedents to represent me?

32:26Ari Melber:yes yes you just say yes yes no he said he said i'm out for presidents to represent me

32:34Pam Bondi:a reference to dead presidents which is slang for money because the money has the presidents on them but only from the past although trump would like a coin uh but what i did there was i flipped it into precedence and if you want to use that with your law students you can

32:48Ari Melber:i appreciate that i'll give a hat tip to the great arie melber or just nazi nazi nazi nazi

32:54Pam Bondi:your area. I'm going to use it. New York rappers represent.

32:59Ari Melber:BK in the house.

33:10Pam Bondi:You know, we take the moments where we can. I want to thank our illustrious guests. Elections are here. We saw that last night. And a lot of Americans are looking at grocery prices, inflation, the shelves, and saying they can't live in Donald Trump's America, that's a theory that hurt the Biden campaign back when they were the ones overseeing high prices. Could it topple the Republican Congress? We're going to get into that tonight. Stay with us.

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35:06Pam Bondi:We've been tracking several stories tonight, looking at the Mideast where U.S. and Israel are continuing these Iran strikes. The United States military has precision missiles that they are using for the first time in this war to target specific sites in Iran. The battleground has also expanded to thousands of miles away. A U.S. submarine sunk an Iranian warship with a torpedo all the way out in the Indian Ocean. This is a widening of the war, the Trump administration arguing that they are on top of things, they have control of the airspace. Many, including our allies, worried about a contagion where this spills out into a regional, unending conflict.

35:41Pam Bondi:The Pentagon says it's now basically eliminated the Iranian Navy. So that's what they're saying. Recall that as of last year, they said they'd obliterated Iranians' nuclear sites, a claim that they later narrowed. The Red Crescent Society indicates the death toll inside Iran is approaching 800 people. That's since Saturday. Israel launched new strikes into Lebanon, targeting Hezbollah, which is one of those terror groups that, as we've reported, Iran has long supported. So that is another piece to Iranian attacks and footprints abroad. Now, Iran is looking as well to deal with their own succession.

36:21Pam Bondi:The Times reporting that they are poised to announce a new leader who is the son of the now-deceased former supreme leader. At least that would be a top candidate. And to put it simply, the New York Times reporting that would be a victory for hardliners, or to put it in Trumpian terms, the opposite of regime change. Inside the United States, people are grieving those American troops that we've reported on who were killed in the war so far. Four identified, six total. Tonight, we want to share with you what one family member told the AP about losing her brother.

36:57Ari Melber:I still don't fully think it's real. I didn't think it was real when they told us. Because I just remember all of our conversations about what he was going to do when he came back. I can't help but think because he was my little brother and he was probably really scared even if he didn't want people to know. I just really wish I got to tell my love one more time because he was just so amazing.

37:24Pam Bondi:There is so much going on these days, but we still have time to bring in a very special conversation. These are two individuals joining us for their third Dutch fallback. Professor Murray, of course, part of our family here in MS Now Analysts. I want to remind everyone she co-hosts the Strict Scrutiny podcast, which you can look up. She's the author of several books, including a forthcoming legal book. And returning, the iconic internationally known chef, Mario Carbone, who leads a literal cuisine empire, New York, Dallas, Miami, and more. His food has become a kind of cultural touchstone. Carbone is one of the greatest restaurants.

38:02Ari Melber:Carbone is literally the hardest to get reservation in New York City. Maybe it never gets old. I had to get the viral spicy vodka rigatoni to see if it's worth the hype. Last table left in Carbone, calling plays on a rotary phone. And it absolutely is. With restaurants and Carbone, spicy rigatoni go hard. Truly an 11 out of 10. No.

38:22Pam Bondi:Spicy rigatoni, Carbone go hard. He's opening up at the Miami Grand Prix this spring. The chef and the professor, welcome.

38:31Ari Melber:The chef and the professor. That's a great tactic. There it is.

38:34Pam Bondi:There it is.

38:35Ari Melber:There it is. We're cooking.

38:36Pam Bondi:Master of your domain. It's great to see you both. Good to see you. So much to talk about. I want to know what's on your list right now.

38:42Ari Melber:So I would like to fall back from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Yes. So the Secretary of Health and Human Services is apparently now on a crusade against Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts and coffee drinks that he believes has too much sugar. And I just want to say, like, I have two problems with this. One, when Michelle Obama was talking about like making school lunches more nutritious, everyone was talking about the nanny state. People were up in arms about that. No one is getting mad about this, which seems a little bit like the nanny state. The second thing is Robert F. Kennedy has been very open and public about his past drug use.

39:15Ari Melber:He notes that he was addicted to heroin and cocaine. He noted on a podcast that he snorted.

39:21Pam Bondi:We discussed that on this show.

39:22Ari Melber:He said that he snorted cocaine off a toilet seat. I have done none of these things. I have very few vices. I have one vice and it is a latte. And I would like to have it every morning without shame, without judgment. Get out of my coffee.

39:35Pam Bondi:Get out of my coffee. Get out. You know a little bit about food. You think... You own latte at Dunkin' Donuts?

39:40Ari Melber:Well, not Dunkin'. Like a Starbucks latte. Right, right, right. That was just chicken. Don't... You're judging me. No, no, no. No, you're judging me. Like you don't go latte at Dunkin'. No, no. I go to Starbucks. But it's...

39:51Pam Bondi:I'm just... No, that's fair. And this... And...

39:53Ari Melber:He knows.

39:54Pam Bondi:And what do you think? A little bit of sugar can help a meal? A little bit of sugar can help a Dunkin' coffee. See, again, he's shading the Dunkin'. No, I'm a Dunkin' guy. You are a Dunkin' guy. I'm a Dunkin' guy. Boston cream. America runs on it. Boston cream. Even if you take the government regulation out of it, is there such a thing as too much sugar? Definitely. Okay. Definitely. Yeah.

40:16Ari Melber:But again, I just don't know if this is the man to be telling us that.

40:19Pam Bondi:I hear you on that credibility. What's on your list, Chef?

40:22Ari Melber:I'm going to fall back on some inflation issues. we're feeling as a chef we're feeling but i think we're all kind of feeling it uh rising beef prices we're all i feel like we're all bulking up on protein these days we're all kind of thinking about our protein intake we're buying more beef uh beef prices are rising so it's not just kind of the premium steaks but i think it's at all level all cuts and uh and you know the rancher life is not easy and i think trying to you know be mindful of supporting it um their costs are rising from feed to water electricity all things it's the smallest herd of cattle we've had in decades.

40:54Ari Melber:And you're going to continue to see that cost go up as we continue to consume it because protein intake is all the rage right now.

41:01Pam Bondi:And you're seeing this in your supply chain. Does it get to the point that what it cuts into your profits or you have to raise prices? Yeah. I mean, we're seeing it for sure at our, you know, at the high level of kind of fine dining steaks, but you're definitely going to see it at like ground beef supermarkets as well. Right. For sure. I mean, this price problem is, is so striking because we had a candidate say he was going to focus on this. The president has failed to bring down prices. That's a fact. People can debate whether that's fully in any government's control. But this seems to be a perennial issue.

41:31Pam Bondi:And sometimes in politics, we get it all wrong. We're over here looking at these national things, looking out. And in fact, this stuff bubbles up and people are thinking about this in the grocery store.

41:41Ari Melber:It's the economy, stupid.

41:44Pam Bondi:Build on it. Speak on it.

41:46Ari Melber:Well, I think people feel these things, these are true kitchen table issues, like what you put on your table, how you pay for it, the impact of it on your grocery bill every week is something that you feel very acutely. Like I'm not the best cook, but when I do cook, I go and purchase things and things are noticeably more expensive than they were even a year and a half ago. And that's something he said he was going to address. That was a big part of his campaign, affordability. And we haven't really seen any impact on that.

42:13Pam Bondi:And being out there with restaurants, customers, the people, what are the indicators You see, I mean, COVID was, of course, a special case, but you see people ready to come out more or it dips off when people have economic anxiety.

42:26Ari Melber:Listen, it's easier for us to pass it along to the customer, right? You're in this moment of entertainment where you've made the choice to go out. You're out on nighttime. You know, it's experiential, very different than at home where it's affecting your wallet and you're feeding your family. This is a need and not a want. You're coming to the restaurant. It's a want. and I think there's more elasticity in the ability to pass that along. I'm buying this great steak. It costs more today than it did yesterday. Well, we have to raise prices, right?

42:56Pam Bondi:And having been to your restaurants, and I believe the professor has, these are hot restaurants, so people don't just come for the cattle. They come for the people. I think people are more willing to be, you know,

43:10Ari Melber:they're more willing to be loose with their cash in an experiential. It's an experience.

43:18Pam Bondi:Yeah, it's a party restaurant for some in New York. The Obamas have been there. You both look great tonight, and I know you both well enough to discuss how you look because we mostly deal in the substance. And I have to say, knowing how sartorially inclined you are, how do you feel about the jewelry, what in some environments we call a chain, or a set of links. I mean, I'll tell you this. I've been at URLs that have fewer links than that. I'm feeling the Cuban links right now. Cuban links. Wu-Tang reference.

43:52Ari Melber:You know what? You know I love a statement necklace. I've never been ashamed to bring one on the show. I love it. And I'm like, you will not tell me I'm going to wear this necklace.

44:02Pam Bondi:I didn't realize statement necklace was your thing.

44:04Ari Melber:This is my job. It is now. It is now.

44:06Pam Bondi:Well, there are some songs where people talk about tucking a chain, hiding the chain so that you might not be robbed. Some people say, I never tuck my chain. In this case, I don't think you can tuck that chain.

44:17Ari Melber:You can't tuck. This is no Figaro. Okay?

44:20Pam Bondi:Nice. It's the real deal. Nice. Right?

44:22Ari Melber:My people. These are.

44:23Pam Bondi:I got one more, but I don't know if we have time. Do we have time for one more? I think we do. Your show. Was it not Drake who said, got so many chains, they call me chaining Tatum.

44:36Ari Melber:I am chaining Tatum because I have three of these in different colors.

44:39Pam Bondi:You have three of those? I have three of those. We learn something new every day. Ornichelle, turquoise, ivory. You look great. You sound great. Everything you're saying makes sense. I appreciate both of you being here. You're having a lot going on. We will be right back.

44:56Pam Bondi:We do a lot on the show, but we also have some special guests that we talk to on our podcast. You can go on Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. search for The Beat Ari Melber and you can find our new segments including a new bonus round with the guests you see here Gary and Emily it didn't air on the show it's a bonus podcast and you can find it there that does it for us

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