BONUS: Ari talks to Pusha T & Malice about Clipse, Pharrell & truth in hip hop

0:00Anybody can make jeans, but you can't dupe True Religions. That famous fit? Pockets you recognize instantly stand out stitching. They try to get the full package, but only we have the legacy. Shop the iconography capsule now at True Religion. Hi, I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats and cat owners deserve better than any old-fashioned litter. That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create Pretty Litter. Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80 % less than clay litter. Just one bag lasts up to a month, meaning fewer refills and less scooping.

0:34Pretty Litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter. Go to prettylitter.com and use code PANDORA for 20 % off your first order.

0:48Hey, this is Ari Melber from MSNBC. Thanks for listening to the Beat with Ari Melber podcast. We want to share some extra programming today, so buckle up and stay tuned for a special edition from MSNBC. brought to you by the Beat with Ari Melber podcast. Hey, it's John Legend. It's your man LL Cool J. It's your girl Tiana Field. You checking out the Beat with Ari Melber. With my man Ari Melber. The Beat, baby. MSNBC, I got Ari with me. My man, Ari Melber. It's Ari Melber. We love what you're doing. The whole Wu-Tang is behind me. Bong, bong, bong. And this is the Beat. Welcome to a special edition of Mavericks with Ari Melber.

1:27we have a duo that once disappeared, like Houdini, now reuniting after 15 years. Pusha T and Malice back as the iconic hip-hop duo Clips returning with their sharp lyrics, bending wordplay, and that signature Pharrell-driven sound.

1:42Malice:Grinding, you know what I keep in a line-in. When the last time you heard it like this? Smoke some, drink some, get ripped. I know, I know, yep, yeah, you too. Okay, we get it, yep, yeah, you too.

2:06The last song off the new album, Let God Sort Him Out, featuring Nas, John Legend, Kendrick, and Tyler. The Guardian has already dubbed it one of the best albums of the year, coming amid one of the most thorough, thoughtful album rollouts in many years. Pusha T and Malice, our special guest. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. You guys are busy. Oh, Mary.

2:27Malice:Never too busy for you, though, Ari. Respect. I appreciate that. We've spoken before, but never on the program. That's right. I got to meet you once. I'm actually going to start with you. Okay. Does it feel like you expected, or now that you're in it, having made the music and in this amazing rollout, does it feel any different being back with your brother and being on the stage? I will say I haven't, and I didn't have any expectations. It's a total comfort level, you know, Like I remember being with my brother, being with Pharrell. Everything just feels at home like it always has. How do you feel watching him reemerge?

3:04We haven't gotten to see him. You're obviously living life together as family forever. So we recognize that. But how does it feel seeing him back in this spotlight?

3:11Malice:Man, I've been looking at just comments from the people. And there was one in particular that was like, the guy was very angry. He was like, we've been missing out on these bars for all this time. You know, he was super upset, super upset with Malice. Denying the gift. Yeah, you know. Oh, man. I don't think I denied the gift. I don't think I denied it. Go ahead. He just spoke to it, though. He just spoke to it. And I think that's just a testament of how people have been receiving him, and I love watching that. Like, they love his artistry. You were saying? Not denying. You were saying? No, I was just saying, I don't feel like I denied the gift.

3:53Malice:I felt like in my absence and the time off, it allows me or allowed me to come back with the gift and its proper usage. I like that. Yeah. Let's listen to The Gift. This single came out first. So when I first heard this, I was just thinking, you're bending every word. It's like words we know, but you're bending them. And that almost makes you hear the entendres more in a way. Let's take a listen to this from Ace Trumpets. Penne alivaca, Panama, fishing village, visiting with papa, with chapas, all of you and pasta. Simply just Ferrari window shoppers, the one that I just ordered looked like it was built by Nasa.

4:40Malice:Over half a mil we call focaccia, reaching for Akasha. Never leaving home without my peace like I'm Mahatma From the tribe of Judah, I'm Mufasa Do you plan to bend the words, or does it happen as you creatively flow? You know, so I can say I have noticed when we perform and do shows, and I look back at the shows and I fill in on Prisha's ad libs, I drag it out longer than he does. every word he says is like is stunted where I over enunciate, I guess. And I think that's how I bring my point home. Even in communication and speaking, I have found it to be to my advantage to be crystal clear. People take you serious, whether you're ordering food or, you phone customer service like I expect to get everything I'm asking for and on that on that song you both play with words people have joked about Wi-Fi which is an international pronunciation is more than one way to talk right NASA right do the brothers talk about that in advance hey maybe we'll like pronounce words differently or does that creatively just bubble up you know in in this particular album, in creating this album, Pharrell made one of the criterias that everything had to be sticky.

6:07Malice:And when he says that things have to be sticky, it means that there needs to be a stencil, a stencil follow. So if the hook is catchy, the verses need to be just as sticky or catchy as the hook. And when you follow a pattern and follow a stencil, that's a way of ensuring that like Like, people are learning ace trumpets. People would never learn, you know, street records like this. You know what I'm saying? But that's what comes along with it. That's what comes along with rhyming and patterning and stencil. And you're explaining it almost, yeah, with a visual or fashion allegory. It makes sense.

6:48We are in the middle of this rollout. We are in NBC30 Rockefeller where you're doing Tonight's Show. You've been doing classic interviews with people who've known you for a long time. And you've been engaging the new digital space. And so we felt we actually need to take a moment. Hip-hop, I've always found to be self-aware, which is inspirational, because you say, wait, who am I, where am I going, what do I want to be? So we're in the middle of this tour, Push. Right. Let's look at how some of this tour's been going. The Thornton Brothers.

7:17Malice:I don't think I've ever interviewed Malice. It's an honor, man. Really? I say the clips, too. No, it's just clips. Oh, it's clips. You call that shot. We take it as kill them all. and let God survive. Competitively. Wi-Fi? We-Fi. We-Fi. Is that for the recall? We're not competing against nobody except our 16-year-old selves. Right. Exactly. You know, like... Exactly. Hell have no furies, better than Lord willing. Now you're tripping. Yeah, 1 ,000%. Thank you, fellas. I appreciate it, man. Oh, we done? You having fun? You having time enough to appreciate it as it happens? I'm loving it. And just that little playback alone, the fits were so fire.

8:02Malice:Like, each fit was so fire. Like, a lot needs to be said for that. Like, come on, man. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, come on. Easy. Down to the fit. Down to the fit. Do you remember every interview, or they start to blur? It get a little blurry, but you brought it back for me. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're in the middle of that, and that shows the, I guess, the care, the thoughtfulness that you guys bring to this clearly must be reflected in the people you rely on the team around you to do it. We talked to a lot of folks and sometimes they're too busy or the label or projects aren't behind them. So, you know, there's various reasons, but this has come through that way.

8:38Then we saw Pharrell in there. Very neat to have him be part of one of these interviews. I've enjoyed that. I want to dive into So Be It with how the song sounds and then how he works off the source material. So this is So Be It and the original.

8:56Malice:16 ,000 square 8 million up there 2 million down here

9:07Malice:When I was born, grandmama could see it I'd be Bentley driven and very strategic

9:26Working with Pharrell, and how does he bring that material to you?

9:29Malice:Man, you know, the story of that song, shout out the power of Instagram and the Internet. That song was a, that sample was on Swizz Beatz' Instagram page. And Pharrell heard it and just called him like, what the hell is that? Like, what is that? And I guess, you know, he sent him the record or whatever it is, and he was like, I'm making something with that. And, you know, clips were the recipients of greatness. But, you know, I think his, I think he is always looking for something that sounds futuristic, something that sounds unorthodox, something that just is kind of polarizing. and you know when you have like a polarizing a polarizing start like that you know it kind of dictates how hard and how crazy the beat gotta be and I think it sort of speaks to him in that way and helps him make the beat Yeah, you start this album very deliberately reflecting on each of your parents passing I want to play just a little bit of what we found from them if that's alright Mm-hmm.

10:53Slow enough, you can catch the words and everything and understand what's going on.

10:58Malice:I think it's nice. I really do. It's nice. We just do not understand it. That's a very true statement. Hmm. They did not understand it at all. But they understood you. Of course. Yeah. They understood us. So much so that with not understanding the rap, still supported, you know, me with buying my beat machine, techniques, Gemini mixer with the reverb on it, microphones, you know, one Christmas. And they didn't believe in rap, but they never stunted us, always supported us. I'm an I told you so kid, so I reminded them all the time. Everything. This worked. Oh, this worked. This is success. Oh, yes.

11:48This is art.

11:49Malice:Oh, yes. Yeah. And, yeah, you reflect that way with the passing. And people, some people still don't understand how much of this is truth, that we care about these lyrics and these stories because so much of them are true. Could depend on the artist, but you feel me. You, in this opening song, you say, in discussing the passing. Right. The way you miss mom, I guess I should have known. Chivalry ain't dead. You ain't let her go alone. You told me that you love me. It was all in your tone. Absolutely. Quote, I love my two sons, was the code to your phone. Right. So, you know, as I'm in the house and organizing and going through paperwork and policies, my dad's passwords to various things like to his phones to different accounts was always some form of I love my two sons and I you know I remember telling him what the password was but I couldn't get it out you know I was just letting him know he was like what'd you say what'd you say I was like is I love my two sons I love my two sons but um it was just very touching my dad was all about family, you know.

13:09Malice:And even in retrospect, just looking back, I just see how huge he was on family. And that's what everybody knew him for, was being about family. And, you know, people talk about the idea of a mantra or code. That being his password meant that he already felt that way, or he wrote the password. But that meant, what, several times a day sometimes it's 10 20 times a day you open that he's typing that in like that was his mantra for his love for you guys yeah absolutely yeah he exuded that for sure I mean my dad was all world yeah everything yeah um we ain't TMZ we ain't doing a lot of other names but we're not avoiding things.

13:58You have this verse that's gotten a lot of discussion talking about someone crying in front of you, and you've identified that as Travis Scott, and it's shot really beautifully in the video, almost menacingly. Let's take a look at that.

14:14Malice:You cried in front of me. You died in front of me. Calabasas took your pride in front of me. Her utopia had moved right up the street, And her lip gloss was popping, she ain't need you to eat. You've discussed this backstory already on the tour, so now that we're caught up to the present and he's saying other things that may or may not be a response because he talked about making money off pushing tees and it's gotten its reception. Is it done and over, you said what you said, or how do you feel about it now? Oh, yeah, it's been, you know, it was over when I said what I said. It was over when I said what I said.

14:48Malice:I mean, you know, it's nothing to talk about. I was just speaking my piece. and just addressing, you know, this music. And, you know, you're really talking about and things happen in real time. So, you know, you want your people, you want your fans, you want the story of what is going on while in creation of this masterpiece. You know, they need to know, like, the type of things we were dealing with and going through. Do you feel like, okay, that got settled, or is that the part of this industry that you left and could do without? Yeah, you know, this is what I remember about the industry. All of the politics, the red tape, all the fakeness, all the injustices, you know.

15:40Malice:For me, the glory of it for me is being able to come back with my brother and to make music. but there are hindrances because there are things that he has been through and they need to be addressed, you know. So I just got to sit and be patient while he, you know, cleans up what needs to be cleaned up and then, you know, I'm ready to get to the music. But, yeah, I mean, you know, the stuff he sits on, you know, and he sits on it for a long time and just when that kettle, you know, starts to blow. You know, he just has to release or whatever. And he would rather not. But you just, you know, people can't keep playing.

16:24Malice:They can't keep playing. Uniting with Kendrick again, which you've done before, right, upset people. And it got all the business and the lawyers involved and hip-hop heads that followed that story. We wanted to look at that and some of the other music you guys have made together because I don't think it's an overstatement. I'm not just, oh, I'm a Clips fan. I don't think it's an overstatement to say that when you two come together, a lot of people have strong feelings. You know, censorship usually reflects the power of the thing they want to censor. And you've said just you two reunite, before we even get to all the words, but just you reuniting had the leaders of this music industry, very powerful people, people with tens or hundreds of millions of dollars already feeling away so I just want to look at some of your work together I don't like you popping that for real for him I inherit the beef yeah all that pushing P let me see you push a T you better off spending again on him you think about pushing me he's Terrence Thorne I'm Terrence Crawford yeah I'm whooping feet couldn't do wrong with a chest full of chains and an arm full of watches what I sell for pain in the I'm a doctor.

17:37Malice:You want to see a dead body? Instrumentals from my mama's Christmas party. Trouble's on my mind. I still smell crime. My little brother grind. God gave me light. A good year full of free will. Trunk card, tell me not to spare your life. Simple question. What happens when you're together? Man, magic. As you can see. You know, from nostalgia to chains and whips. I just think it's magic, man. You're witnessing lyricism, high-level lyricism, people who actually care about the art, people who actually, you know, really etch a sketch, you know, their thoughts and put a lot of passion into that. And I think it's to the benefit of the game.

18:31And we've seen the story. you guys stood tall, it was more important to get the real work out uncensored than anything else, than business, than label deals. The flip side of that is, did this lawsuit, we spoke about this once and you said you'd never seen anyone go to the law from a rap battle. But did this lawsuit prove somewhat effective in that it delayed the release and complicated things, or you don't look at it that way?

18:58Malice:No, I don't look at it that way at all. I feel like, you know, timing is, uh, Timing is everything and and I mean look at it. I mean You know this rollout this rollout the the actual release of the album It couldn't happen at a better time. I mean, there's nothing better than it drop, you know nothing You know the the the fans are engaged We're setting a new standard for hip-hop journalism, too. And the curation of who we speak to and who we're talking to. You know, we're just trying to raise the bar for the game, period. It's not, you know, this is about uplifting hip-hop in everything that we do, from the pin to who we sit down with to, you know, the fashion, everything.

20:02Malice:Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Everything that's part of our culture. Now, Miles, we've been waiting to get push on the beat. We've been doing this show now eight years, and we've had our shout-outs, and I don't usually do this for artists. I can tell you, on God, I've done this one other time. but we did want to show since we got you here how push does get quoted for wisdom on this program this ain't really for you this is for the goya montoya who said i couldn't stop that afforded me all the lawyers the theme the artist push a t explores in a song about a cooperating criminal recounting how covering his own tracks he didn't care that we had a legacy he killed.

20:51I got to wear that. Break your heart when the man you call your brother be the same one that set in motion all them undercovers. Obviously, I'm reminded of Pusha T, the musician who famously said the money count is the only moment of silence because hush money balances all this drugs and violence. I got to ask you about a very prominent rapper, Pusha T, dance contest for the smokers. I predict snow Al Roker. I was very grateful to Pusha. You know, me and the T, very close. Roker loves you. We love you. Malice, you know he's on the news, right? You've seen some of that?

21:32Malice:I mean, quite the philanthropist. And I know that the only time you ever said hey was in front of Al Sharpton. You said, well, not all the bars in front of Al. Yeah, yeah, you know. I respect Al. Yeah, he's not for all that life. But neither are you, right? Yeah, not for real, for real, you know. I know what I got to do, though. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing we had to ask you about in the news is that, you know, you bring up Obama, and I don't know if you bring him up only as inspiration or the president or politics. The new album talks about the system. It talks about certain issues, but it's not like partisan or anything.

22:12But we did pull just some of the Obama references. Take a look.

22:17Malice:If I was Brittany Griner, I'ma need Obama, only wanna swap his shop, oh. Started in the crack house, Obama went the back route. Killed Bin Laden, number four up in the Black House. My new attorney, Jeffrey Dahmer's out. And all that I told Obama about Astros. Obama is gone, who is left to save us? So together we mourn, I'm praying for my neighbors. I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO A LOOK AT THE BORDER. WHAT DOES OBAMA MEAN WHEN YOU'RE NAME CHECKING HIM? OBAMA ACTUALLY INVITED ME TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND ACTUALLY ASKED ME WHAT I CARED ABOUT. AT THE TIME, I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR, IN OFFICE AND HE WAS LIKE, MAN, WHAT ARE THE ISSUES YOU THINK WE SHOULD TACKLE?

22:59Malice:And it was about sentencing, fair sentencing, you know, sentencing guidelines and things like that. That's what was on my plate at the time. So, you know, I was invited a couple of times. And then when I couldn't make it, they had they let a friend of mine named Tony Lewis, Jr., come and, you know, speak on behalf of prison reform and fair sentencing. and he's great. Like, he's great, and he's great in the community. And actually, his father just came home from 30 years. Wow. 30-plus years. I think I'm even getting the numbers wrong. But Tony Lewis Sr. But it was great because when I couldn't make it, I was on the road and doing things like that.

23:49Malice:They just ushered him in and let him come back and do all the activations and speak to the public and, you know, speak to, you know, people in Washington and trying to get, you know, sentencing, sentence reform done, prison reform, you know, fixed up. So for you, I mean, putting it on wax is making sure people know. We talk about what's true is like the same thing I told Obama about. Yeah, same thing I told Obama about, ask him. He knows. Good bar? Great bar. I'd love to do a lightning round before I lose you guys. This lightning round is, you know, a word or a phrase or in a sentence. start off real short, and I'll go start with you, Push.