BONUS: Jon Batiste on performing and growing up in music

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1:12We're really excited about it. It launches later this summer. You'll be able to talk with me, talk with some of the other hosts. But tickets for Texas are on sale now. You can learn more at ms.now slash together. Hope to see you in Texas. music has that ability in a single moment just in the sound beat of a drum in the chord a melody a lyric it just brings you to a realization of wow this is what we've been through this is what we're going this is who we are what does being a maverick mean here what are you channeling in this role.

1:55Today I'm joined by a true icon. That's a much more ambitious response. This all clearly resonates with so many people. How do you stay true to yourself?

2:10Welcome to Mavericks with Ari Melber and today I am joined by the Oscar and Golden Globe winning film composer, five-time Grammy-winning and Emmy-nominated jazz piano master, the late night band leader, you may know him, the composer, John Batiste. Thanks for being here. Ooh, sir. How are we feeling? Feeling great. I feel wonderful. How you doing? I feel great. And even before we sat down here, you were warming up or whatever you call it. It's a nice way to get into an interview. You got to do it. You got to be ready. You've been ready from the jump. So we'll start at the beginning. A very musical family.

2:45What did it mean growing up in the Batiste family tradition? Many know, some may not. Well, you know, it's like the tribes of New Orleans culture, tribes of New Orleans music, literally these musical families, my family being one of the largest among these many tribes of musicians and creators, culture bearers. My dad, you know, seven brothers on my dad's side formed a family band, over 30 cousins. I was the youngest cousin when I was growing up, So I would be the one that was playing, you know, like the little bongo drums and then the drum kit eventually. And then we had the younger cousins form the junior family band.

3:22And you have about three or four drummers. You can't have a band with three or four drummers. So a lot of drummers. It's a lot of drummers. It's a drum circle. Grateful Dead had two drummers. Yeah, you could have two, maybe three, but got to have some other instruments. You know, so that's when I switched to the piano. and all types of different musical styles. It was just like growing up in a true melting pot. Do you remember an age where you looked around and said, oh, not everyone's in this kind of family. Is this inspiration? Does it feel different? Does it feel even like an obligation to live up to?

4:00It's a responsibility, it feels like that, because I didn't know it was abnormal until I left it. So what age was that? Oh, my goodness, maybe 14, 15 years old. So at 10, you were like, everybody, every family is just a band. Yeah. It wasn't even like the profession of music. It was, you know, there would be music for everything. Yeah. The music, not necessarily as an entertainment factor, but music as a factor of people gathering. So, you know, I didn't think it was a thing to be a musician. Everybody's a musician. You know, some of the folks in the neighborhood who are doing bad things, even those folks could play a trumpet on the side.

4:40Well, as we reveal and peel the layers. Let's get it. Let's get it. We talk about your family. Let's look at it because we got the archives. Let's look at it. Oh, you a young Batiste. Oh, snap. Right now we're going to sing about Louisiana. So I'm Paul Batiste wrote a story about our beautiful state.

5:13And I'm talking now to the youngest members of that very musically talented family, the Baptiste kids. This is A-year-old Jonathan and this is 12-year-old Jamal.

5:35Do you remember that? Oh, man, of course I remember that. How did that feel? Oh, my gosh. I was terrified. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I was, you know, music was all a part of our upbringing. That's my cousin Travis, my other cousin Jamal, who are incredible. And one of my earliest memories was us playing our annual show at the Children's Museum. and this is some of my first performance experiences and then I remember also that same year around that time I was maybe seven, eight years old filming a commercial and being in front of the camera and all of these experiences, singing even just in a 30 second ad, I was terrified.

6:24I was, I didn't really know what it was that music had for me in the performance realm. But I didn't really know just yet, besides the joy of that, that you see being on stage. I had to know what to say. Even back then, it was hardwired into me to be like, okay, if I'm up here, I want to say something. Well, you look happier now than on the drums there. At eight on the drums, you looked like you were... I was terrified. Yeah, you looked like you were really just trying to hold it together. Well, that was the pattern I played. that pattern that you see, that was the only pattern that I knew at the time.

7:02And, um, you know, contrary to popular belief, when I first started playing music, it was not just like, oh, it just came to you. Right. So you're saying something deep, which is a lot of people look and they say, oh, you become a musician or you choose that, or you try to make it a vocation. There's a lot of extras on top of that. You're saying you were actually raised in a spirit and environment where saying musician was like saying person. You're like, yeah, we're people. This is one of many things we do. Is that why it stayed so natural for you? I value it feeling real. I value things feeling connected.

7:39I value things feeling like it's coming from a person and not a brand or not something that's focus grouped. I could give you a bar for that. I don't know. Do we have time? I would love your, the references and just the encyclopedic knowledge and the at-will calling up of these bars is amazing. I would love you to do that as much as possible. As much as possible. As much as humanly possible. Yes. We'll try to stay human today. Oh. Well, was it not Yassim Bey? Because you said, you're not a brand. Yeah. And he said, I don't care what kind of brand you are. I care what kind of man you are, what your principles and standards are.

8:22Wow. That's right on. That's it. That's what people feel at the end of the day anyway. Even the biggest brand, if you will, our biggest messaging has to be connected to something real or to resonate. Right. Which is funny because now we're in a moment in a digital society where there's so much performance. When you say stay human and when you say that the music brings people back to their own personal truth, what does that mean? Well, there's so much that we go through and so much that has happened to culminate into us. Everything that we have lived through, sometimes we forget. Sometimes we lose connection to our own experience and thus the experience of the community and those around us and the world around us because everything's moving at a mile a minute.

9:19There's so much information. There's so much stimulus. It's pushing us to the point where we have to just be present enough to make it to the next day, let alone reflecting on what happened yesterday, let alone reflecting on what happened last year. let alone our life and all of our lineage and the culture and everything we come from. So music has that ability in a single moment, just in the sound, beat of a drum, in the chord, a melody, a lyric. It just brings you to a realization of, wow, this is what we've been through. This is where we're going. This is who we are. Like all of that is translated.

9:56It's the universal language, not just because you don't have to speak music to understand it and feel it, but it's universal in that it touches all of the universal human experience in one vibration. That's what's powerful about music. That's why I do it because it's like, oh, I can speak to all of this just in a song. I can speak to a world in a song in three minutes, so I can write a symphony and it can speak to, it's endless. It's very exciting. Even just thinking about it. I want to go and create. You've traveled the world and met people and you speak to people and you have such a understanding of people and how people come together.

10:38As a musician, that's our study as well. We're observing the world. We're observing how music has existed over the history of time and today and how we're forecasting where it's going. And I think it's, we're in a time where we need to get back to the root of what music has meant for so many cultures, so many generations. We've almost like, we've forgotten what music actually is meant to do or what it can do. And we're coming back around to it. So that's what I'm saying, stay human. That's what it meant, you know, when I was coming up with this philosophy in my 20s, when I first moved to New York, coming up here from Louisiana, I was like, what am I actually trying to say?

11:27You probe your artistry, you probe your identity to figure out, okay, what is it, why am I on this stage? What do I want to share with these people? You know what I mean? And that was one of the things that kept ringing true. Oh, stay human. And it just continues to reveal itself even to me, the meaning of that. There was one summer where I think that's when I started to have an understanding of what I wanted to say as an artist. And my talent started to blossom. And then the next year, it was like I was playing five instruments and I was it just something happened. I'd worked to get to that point where there's like this inflection point.

12:09You build to that. And then there's a moment where it all clicks. You then moved beyond drums and you went piano and melodica? Yeah. First it was a piano, melodica and saxophone, kind of around the same time. So that was like 11, 12 years old. And then let's keep, let's talk about the haters for a second. There are people who say melodica, not serious. Yeah. You know, let them be there. People always say, you know, I'm sure, you know, you deal with this. Is he serious or is he, you know, like I can be, serious, I can be playful, I can be very wistful and deep and nostalgic, and I can be whimsical.

12:55Right. Does the melodica have a natural kind of inherent whimsy? We associate it like with that, like a moment in a film, or are we putting that on there? I think it has a natural sound. It's It's a verse to pomposity. It's a verse to being uppity and strange because it sounds like literally a child's toy. It sounds, it has this sound that is almost shrill to the point that it cuts through the texture of what's happening and you have to wonder where is it coming from. So we don't expect like Yo-Yo Ma or Itzhak Perlman to jump on a melodica. No, no, no. But you like it because you say this is a nice feeling, fun sound.

13:38Yeah, it's a fun sound. It's mobile. I was always trying to figure out, you know, when I was seeing musicians march through the street in New Orleans playing horns and trumpets and trombones. And, you know, when I started to really play the piano, I can't march with a piano. So that was one thing. The other thing is everything about artistry comes down to the imagination. You can imagine a way to use something. You can do anything. People play the spoons. You know what I'm saying? Well, I grew up in Seattle. We had Spoon Man. I don't know if you know. Yeah, of course. Come on. Man. Spoon Man. That's what I'm saying.

14:17It's killing. Yeah. It's great to take something that is not meant. That's one of my favorite things about artistry. How do we take something that's not meant to be in the space and create a reason for it to be in the space that's compelling and true? Interesting. So then you have this duality. Yeah. And what you call this energy, this whimsy. Yes. You go to Juilliard, and that's very, what, classical, traditional. Yes. How did you navigate that, arriving there? Well, it was a very interesting time. There was an incredible shift in my life at the age of 16 when I decided, you know, I wanted to leave New Orleans.

15:01I wanted to figure out where I could study. And I went to, you know, all of the different auditions in New York, whether it's Manhattan School of Music, Juilliard School, all of the conservatories where there's a 1 % acceptance rate. Everybody around the world is trying to get in. So that level of competition, that shift in thinking, OK, I'm leaving this structure of home and family and community to go into this place. I don't know anybody. and that was a huge shift and I arrived and I went to the jazz program and also the classical program and there was a range of different levels of pushback and misinterpretation and misunderstanding but ultimately I love all of that because it really is just you know what are you made of it shows you who you are and it helps you to kind of define okay I gotta I gotta sculpt what I'm about.

16:01Like, you design yourself. Nobody built like you. I know. I buy that. Yeah. And we're in that process, right? That's why things feel as important now as they did. It's like, Bowie said, I have the firm belief that this Tuesday is just as important as last Tuesday. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So it's like, why does that matter? Or you talk about the past or your trauma and it's like, well, there could be trauma today and tomorrow too. Whatever you're going through is continuing, right? Yeah, yeah. It's not, that's why there's no such thing as failure. Because? Well, the only failure is to not keep going. That's why this Tuesday and next Tuesday, if you keep going, then failure as a concept cannot thrive.

16:55It cannot live. It doesn't exist. So that's really cool. I like that. I like that a lot. When you were at Juilliard and you said the misunderstandings or you're navigating that, did you feel like you were fulfilling your family's legacy or walking away from some aspect of it? For me, it wasn't all bad and it wasn't all clear at the time. To me, it was just a intuitive, everything happens for a reason. I'm moving in this direction. A lot of great things are happening. I'm not gelling with the institution, you know, which is so funny now I'm on the board, but it's crazy to think back then the culture of it wasn't necessarily giving me everything that I had expected or everything that I imagined.

17:44It would be. What would Juilliard board member Batiste say to student Batiste when you were what? How old then? I was 17 around that time. What would you say to 17 year old Batiste? now that you're up here on the board. Well, you know what, man? If I was on the board, it would just be a different scenario. But what I would say is just continue to do your thing because I think it all worked out. I wouldn't say anything different. Would you say like don't trip? Would you say like even be less or that was part of the process to be? Part of it. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes it's a part of it.

18:21You got to let it be what it is. because the thing about it is those are lessons. Those are moments of discovery. Right. But at the same time, it was tough. Well, that's what's interesting about the way people may know you now. First of all, recently, last few years, right, there's been tremendous accolades. So that's a type of success. And people know you as someone who comes across as very resolved, integrated, grounded. Right. But you're telling us there were dichotomies and contradictions going through all this, and maybe there still are some. Before we sat down for this interview, we were talking about warm ice.

19:01Yeah. Which I thought it was just water. That's crazy. You talk about love riot. Yeah. You seem drawn to these dualities, right? So tell us about love riot. Tell us about social music. Man, you warm ice. You came up with that. That's right on it. I love the gray area. there's something special in the gray area. Always. You can find something in there. And Love Riot is this idea that we came up with. I came up with doing these street performances, and we would do these in the subways and street corners in New York for many years with my band Stay Human, and we would go out and we would play. And then that would change from city to city.

19:50the thing would become the encore of a show that, you know, the venue might have four or five thousand people would take those people out of the venue, march up the street and like cram into a coffee shop as many of them. It would just feel like a riot, basically. These things, the more and more people we would play for, the more times we would do this around the world. It would feel like there was this roving processional musical love riot going on. And how much of that fed into the making of or the spirit of We Are? Well, that was a big part of, you know, New Orleans, the second line tradition for when someone passes away.

20:29So then if you take that inspiration and that evolves in my life and in my generation into the love ride and would stay human. and then you build that concept of social music, which for me is this idea of what was music before it was entertainment, all of those early forms of music and communities, and how do you integrate that with contemporary sounds and contemporary ideas. The first version of We Are was actually social music, which was an independent album that I put out 10 years prior to We Are. So I called that album Social Music And that was kind of when the philosophy first developed So Social Music to We Are is an era Do you feel like you were bottling Or trying to capture the feeling in that album And then did you feel in advance Before all the accolades I got it Like it took this long but I got it Or was it still an open question for you personally I felt like I got it on social music, but didn't have...

21:35But they didn't get it? No, they didn't get it for sure, which is I'm used to that. Yeah. But also social music was ahead and it also, we didn't have the resources. I was doing that on, you know, sleeping on people's couches and, you know, playing supper clubs and going to college when I recorded that. So that captured it, but it wasn't aligned across the board. And then We Are was obviously an evolution. A lot of things got better. My game got better. The whole thing was better in the sense of execution. And it was aligned. It was like I had to live that 10 years in order for things to align themselves to that concept to really be able to reach people.

22:25So you have that tradition, the line in New Orleans, you have your take on it. Right. You have you doing it in improv, then turn it into something that's the more traditional album. Right. And then fast forward, you're doing the line at what? The French U.S. State Dinner. Yes. And you got President Biden in there. Yes. And the word is out there, the word on the White House street, if you will, on Pennsylvania Avenue, where it really goes down. The word is that you had the president involved, but he did not have a hanky. Yeah, he did. He did. But you know. Tell us about that. It's forgivable in the first time.

23:06But you're performing in the state dinner. Just take people in. We're talking back to the French tradition and all the complexity of that. But you have the current leader of France and the leader of the free world. And you're there performing this. What does that mean to you? I love just being myself in every room. I just love it. I love being able to really be myself. And that was a beautiful moment for my family. It was, for me, imperative that I could take my whole family, my grandfather, all of all of my my my nephews, my my sister, my mom, my dad. And that's not nothing. I mean, someone watching the interview goes, oh, that sounds nice.

23:53So that's cool. But the truth, the truth is, you know, you can get invited. The bigger the thing you get invited to, sometimes the tighter they are about it. Right. Yes. It's like, I mean, Drake said they don't give out plus one. So you won't see me pulling up to the Met. Right. He said, basically, they wouldn't give him enough plus one. You're breaking this down for the people. When I say I brought my family. No, you brought 10. So Dr. Jill Biden, the first lady calls you, the story goes. Yes. and says, come perform the safe dinner, which is a high honor. Yes. And you say, okay, but I need to bring 10.

24:27Yes. Can I bring 10? Yes. Which is amazing. Yes. And that made it not just the honor of it, but it made the environment, and when we talk about authenticity and sharing that real version of, y 'all gonna get the real sauce. This is the root. And it's hard to front if you're in front of people who change your diapers. That's right on. They're going to look at you like bars. Use that if you can. I just need you to continue this. This is fire. This man, let me explain. America. America. You got to understand, this is not normal. We have not seen the likes of an Ari Melba in the news media space. He is connecting with you on multiple levels and educating you culturally and also reaching the depth of seriousness and journalistic integrity that we all deserve.

25:32You're very kind. You're very kind. And this is why this is why you can only be in so many newsrooms. We really need to be around musicians because then you get the energy up. Right. They call it the hype man and hip hop, band leader, whatever you want to call it. You get that energy up. let's take it to world music radio. Cause you just told us it was 10 years to get to there now. And then we saw the Grammys. Yes. We see you holding all the Grammys, man. And I, I said to you, uh, before we started the interview, um, and I say with all respect, um, you know, on my word in the music industry, if you sit down with the marketing type people and they say, build your road to the Grammys, right.

26:08It would be totally different the way you did. You just walked us through some of that. Yes. But now it's a faster turnaround, right. To this next album. And you have a bunch of interesting collapse. So tell us about what is the new album. So it's like if you had an idea to make a big budget movie and you couldn't make the movie, you didn't have the money. Okay. And then you make another movie that you really want to make that is also, you know, a dear movie to you to make. But you have the means to make it at that time. It's successful. Now you have the budget. You have the means. You have the wind behind your wings to fly and do this big budget movie.

26:47That's what this record is. It's like, okay, it's Godfather 2. It's like, hopefully for me, if we live up to that, then, you know, maybe I'll retire after this. But I think this record. We previewing a retirement today? I'm not going to retire, but it's just like it took 10 years to get to We Are. And basically I'm saying it took 10 years, not 11 or 12 years to get to this. But I just couldn't do this until we had the support and the success that has allowed for this record to happen. It's an expansive, global, popular music album. And it really is a concept record. You're guided through the album.

27:34What's the concept? You're guided through by a character that I play named Billy Bob. Billy Bob Bob. He's a traveling interstellar griot. He travels the world. Billy Bob Bob. That's right. B4. B4 is taking you through this expansive radio broadcast. It's a supernatural radio broadcast. And you're given the instructions at the beginning as to how to partake. and it goes through all of these incredible sonic landscapes, this incredible journey. It's really a whole experience. It's a movie. So no wonder you put Lil Wayne on it because he's not a human. He's a Martian. Well, see, you're good. Wayne not only is on it, his bars are, you know, to me, he's the goat.