BONUS: Snoop Dogg talks Tupac’s politics and iconic music in extended pod with Ari Melber

0:00On any journey using Uber, it helps to know you're getting into the right car. Pin verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride. Before the trip begins, your app gives you a unique pin. Just tell it to your driver, and they'll enter it in their app before the ride can start. Hey, what's your pin? Mm-hmm. 2538. That way, you know you're in the right car taking the right trip, and your driver knows you're the right passenger. Make sure your ride is your ride with pin verification from Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app. It's my first day of work and I need to make a big impression.

0:33From executive producer Mindy Kaling. This is our sexual harassment training. Hands off your co-workers. Now sign this saying that I trained you or you're fired. Yes, ma 'am. Work relationships are too messy. I just met the woman of my dreams. You gotta chill out and not come on too strong. That goes against my entire personality, but I'll try. Watch Not Suitable for Work, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. terms apply I don't think people will believe this 17 Grammy nominations no Grammy wins 17 with no W's there's a lot of criticism of it for a lot of reasons I guess when I die they give me about 5 or 10 of the motherfucking I really want one now so I can make it an ashtray for taking so long

1:30Welcome to Mavericks with Ari Melber And today our very special Maverick Is the one and only Snoop Doggy Dog Thanks for doing this Thank you for having me How you doing? I'm good man, welcome to the compound It's an honor to be here We walked in and you were playing a new song You've been working on today So tell me about that and where we are. Well, we're inside the compound. This is my facilities that I've been in for like the past 12 years in Inglewood, California. I'm working on some music with Hit Boy right now. I just dropped an album called Algorithm. But Hit Boy is on Def Jam Records and he's a family member.

2:05And we just feel like making music. Let's start with the algorithm. The congratulations new album. It's you. It features a lot of people. It opens by you telling people an algorithm is a process for calculations or problem solving operations. Especially by a computer. Especially by a computer. What does that mean to you, Snoop Dogg, at 50, doing everything you're doing? It just means that certain things need to be shaken up. Like the algorithm is great in certain things, but in music I felt like it was kind of off. So I wanted to get it back on. I thought that the algorithm was based off of a computer telling you what was a hot record as opposed to you feeling what a hot record was.

2:45So that's what this project is about. It's about breaking the algorithm and making music feel good as opposed to sound good. How do you break the algorithm? I break the algorithm by being Snoop Dogg, you know, because you can't write me or make me. You can't really shape me or break me. So the things that I do is my own, you know, calculation of how I move and how I get down. and it becomes something that people want to follow and they want to interpretate and they want to try to be a part of because it's a great spirit and it's a great vibe. Here you are at 50 with this new album and a new supergroup and leading a Super Bowl performance and all these other business projects.

3:22And on the algorithm we checked, you've got artists ranging in age from 23 to 55, which is very Snoop. Do you get something different based on the age of the person you're collaborating with? I think I get a spirit. It's all about spirit and what the person brings as an artist and vocally. You know, what their voice sounds like in the mix with the music. Every artist is an instrumentation to the music. It's not an artist or a vocalist. It's just a piece of the music that just complements it. So when I'm picking and choosing the people to work with, it's never about age or anything. It's about feel, what it feels like.

3:58This person feels good. I think they should be on this record and we make that thing happen. One thing that those of us who followed you, I followed you my whole life because I've met you before and told you I grew up on you. And so we feel close to you. I'm sure a lot of people feel close to you in different ways. But you've continued to evolve, grow and transcend. Right now we're talking you have Def Jam here on the beanie. You have this role there, executive, creative and strategic consultant. in addition to everything else. Why is that important to you to do right now? That's very important.

4:31That's the job that I wanted. I went and met with Lucian Grange and told him I wanted that position and I wanted to help Dev Jam and I wanted to help the music industry because I feel like I got so much wisdom and information and guidance that it's selfish for me to hold it to myself as opposed to spreading it out to the youth that want it as well as to the established artists that don't know how to get it. So I just put myself as a platform to help others and a spotlight to put on the talent that needs to be put on. And I felt like Def Jam is a cornerstone to hip hop. It means so much to me being a fan of it.

5:02And I didn't have a job at the time, so I wanted a job. So, you know, just like a man that likes to work, what does he do? He goes and tries to find a job that fits his, you know, abilities and capabilities. And that was the best thing for me to be in a record company, to be able to help out other artists. And then at the same time, to put out some of my new music at the same time. So giving me a chance to still be fresh and fly and then give opportunities to new artists as well. You were on the hiring side of the table in the song where you're interviewing Lil Dicky for him to work in hip-hop.

5:32I guess Lucian's on the other side of the table for this. Is Lucian the most powerful person in music? I think he's one of them. I think he's one of the most powerful people in the music industry, and he doesn't abuse his power. I love the way he conducts himself and the way he runs his business and the way he allows us to do what we do. So it was a pleasure and honor to meet him and to finally be able to get up on him and see what he was about and for him to let me exercise my skills and do what I'm doing. So it's a beautiful partnership. So walk us through what you do in that role. You're talking to a Davies, you're counseling a Benny the Butcher.

6:02What does that involve? Well, what that involves is, like, for example, Benny the Butcher, right? He was an artist that was dope that Def Jam had tried to get once upon a time but couldn't get him. So I felt like I could get him. So I went and sat down with him, talked with him, asked him what he wanted and gave him what he needed. And now he's signed to Def Jam Records. Like certain artists like Jadakiss. I knew Jadakiss was hot for many years. Me and him got a bunch of records together. So when I did that record with Benny the Butcher, I wanted Jadakiss on it because he was a part of the family.

6:33When I flew to New York, I wanted to work with Fabulous and Dave East. So I grabbed them, brought them to the studio, put on some music, and we made a hit. It's just about brotherhood and just coming and showing up, pulling up, having my hands on it, being instrumental, being a set of ears, being a set of eyes, and also listening as well, not just so much just giving direction, but sometimes taking direction from the artist and being able to help them implement their play to the building so that way it's understood and relayed the right way. Do you relate to them as Snoop the artist or Snoop the successful business person or something else?

7:08I think a little bit of all because you have to take all of that into account when you're talking to me, especially when we're talking about music and business because I'm good at both. And if I'm trying to help you in your career, I may have a couple of things that can assist you or show you things that you don't know. And then at the same time, it's like, you know, when you've been doing this for over 30 years and you're still successful, it's something you're doing right. So a lot of times they just look at that and they say, well, we love the way your career has gone and we love what you do because you're so upfront and personal with how you get out, how you could do something from, you know, Sesame Street to damn near rated R or rated X because that's the world that I'm in.

7:45I'm in a world where I can go from bottom to top because it's all me and it's not me trying to play a part. I just meet you just playing me. From X to G in these Sesame Streets. Yes, sir. In these Sesame Streets, I like that. I like that, Ari. And then you go to Mount Westmore. Yeah. Again, you joke, oh, you didn't have a job, but you're busy. These are artists that are more in your peer group, I think. Definitely some of them from back in the early California 90s. Right. Why bring E-40 and Ice Cube and Too Short together for this? Well, the pandemic brought us together. It was the pandemic, and we were all just sitting at home, and we wanted to make music, and we've always been family.

8:25We always went on the road together, so we just decided to start making records together. E-40 came up with the name, and Too Short came up with the idea as far as us doing it. So once we started doing it from our homes, the records started feeling good and sounding good. And, you know, once we made the record, we didn't have a home. But once I got the Def Jam job, I settled in and seen how everything was going. song was gonna slide one of their songs onto the Algorithm album to position their album, and it worked out just fine. Big Subwoofer is at nine million streams. It's doing very well. It was the kickoff single for Algorithm.

8:58I don't want to do the old head, new head thing, but you've lived this. Some of the names you just mentioned, Two Shorts sold the cassettes out of his trunk. Out of his trunk, yeah. It is different now that some people can get hot so quick, and they didn't have to put in the time that some of you and your peers did. Do you think about that? Does that make a difference? No, it don't make a difference because what we do is we treat ourselves as the Rolling Stones or the Beatles. We look at ourselves as rock stars. We don't look at ourselves as rap stars. So to get to this level, it takes a lot, and we try to be an example for those who follow us.

9:32If you look at all of our careers, all four of us, you got over 120 years of music. You got 30 or better from each one of us. Two Shorts started in 85, 86, Cube, 86, 87, E-40, 88, 89, Snoop Dogg, 91, 92. You do the math. And we've all been successful, we've all done things outside of music, and we've done things to keep our name and our, you know, our image within the same realm that we started with. It's never been no breaks and no changes and no dips, it's been us from beginning to end, and it's the same time. It's like, these are my OGs. I came up buying their records before I was able to get in the music industry, So when I got in the industry, I made it a must to be their friends and to go find them and tell them how much I love them.

10:13And this is just full circle how much we love each other to say that. We so far in our careers, we're doing so well individually. But to take that ego and put it on pause to say that I want to formulate a group to show the youngsters that you can come together, that you can be a peaceful group to make music and do concerts where nobody gets hurt, nothing goes wrong. We just did three concerts, Ontario, Chicago and Kentucky, all sold out. peaceful, no violence, people drove home safely, no drunk drivers, none of that. So it's like it's the projection that you bring as an artist that your audience gets.

10:44And I feel like we're at that point now to where we're able to settle in and let our fans have a good time with us while we perform. There was this dividing line in your life that is in your music that people know about that case and the song Murder was the case and the film and everything else. We dug up just a little bit of how that was being covered at the time. I'm going to play this for you. Rap star Snoop Doggy Dogg consistently makes headlines both for his best-selling records and for his high-profile legal troubles. Lately, it is the legal problems, charges he was involved in a Southland murder, that have taken the spotlight.

11:14Next month, he goes to trial for his alleged involvement in a Southland murder. I'm not hard to get along with. I'm not hard to deal with. I mean, you know, it's just the media that tries to, you know, brainwash anybody that's trying to be down with some black that's positive, that's young, that can move something in this world. You know, some white people really are afraid of black people in America. Right. You come out of that case, the justice system said what it said, so you're cleared. And then we have the whole rest of your life to reflect on. So people know Snoop, the businessman, Snoop, Martha Stewart's friend, all the rest.

11:48Do you think it's important that Americans understand that a lot of other people who are in that position, being defined by the justice system or the media that way might have so much more to them? Yes, and I feel like I'm a great example of that, and I'll be displaying that with different television series and different things that I'll be doing as a part of my life coming up real soon so people can get an understanding and a direct commentary from me how it was personal for me to go through that to get to where I'm at. You mentioned projects. Are you working with 50 Cent on anything? Yeah, me and 50 in collaborations about a small piece of my life which would be based off of that murder was the case, you know, moment in time, you know, a dream that became a nightmare.

12:29You know, thinking about being the biggest, best rapper in the world and living the American dream as far as being successful. And it's all wiped away by catching a murder case, which becomes a nightmare. Yeah. Do you remember the feeling of that stress or duality? Because at the time I read it was the first debut album to debut at number one at the time. So that's like the best musical beginning you could have, and then against everything you just said. Did that feel like out of sorts for you, or you just took it as it came? No, it felt like a dream and a nightmare, because with all of the success that was going on, I couldn't really enjoy it because my life was in limbo as far as I know the justice system, and I know that it didn't look good for me because of my music, my background, my past record, and then my record label.

13:19So all of that went into account as far as like, these are things that are working against me now I gotta have a great team of lawyers thank God for Michael Harris and Suge Knight and David Kenner and his dream team of lawyers that he put around me to you know speak for me because I wasn't allowed to speak in court you know so they had to speak for me to to betray me as who I was not what you thought I was and you know by the blessings of God the jury was able to look past the music and the hype and the media and look at the person and look at you know what the lawyers was presenting as far as evidence and they found a way to get me free to where I can continue my journey on doing what I'm doing now to save lives and be a better person.

13:56You had David Kenner and Johnny Cochran? Yes, sir. When you looked at that jury, what were you hoping and what did you learn about our justice system? Because it can go both ways. We cover a lot of problems, but sometimes it's the jury that does what the government and the police and others won't. Well, actually, I was quite nervous because if you recall, O.J. Simpson that just beat his case. So I was thinking that since he beat his, it was a must for me to lose mine because the justice system is not going to see two black men walk out of the same courtroom with not guilty verdicts. So it weighed heavy on my mind and on my heart.

14:31That's why when I got the decision of the verdict, I went immediately into a prayer position because I was thankful. And I prayed through the whole thing, and my mother and my whole family was praying for me through it. And we wasn't like praying to do anything wrong. and we was praying to heal the family of the deceased and to heal my family because this was tragic for all of us. It wasn't like a celebratory moment where we were happy. It was a sad moment because somebody's life was lost and then my life was in limbo, and this is something that I've got to live with forever. That's why I went about it a different way when I got back on Death Row Records.

15:05I was on a different wave, and they didn't understand me because they wanted me to be the old Snoop, and I was the new Snoop. Right, and that brought you to the dog father? and then many more chapters. You mentioned Death Row and Suge. There's a tape, you know, YouTube is great for some things. We found just party footage with you, Suge, Dre, and Biggie all at the same party. Just reminiscing, I want to take a quick look at that.

15:43Now, chilling. Yeah. Yo, P.I.G. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. We keep it real like jail in the party scene. Know what I'm saying? Everything cool? What's going on next for you? I see you acting now and ****. Know what I'm saying? Nah, I ain't acting. I'm just chilling.

16:02That was the murder was the case premier in New York. You remember that night? Yeah, I remember that night. All of New York showed up for us. What was that like? It was like, remember this, I'm still a fan, right, at this time. Okay. So to see my idol show up to my movie premiere and love it and love me and know who I am and respect me was like an out-of-body experience. I had to be cool, but I was so excited that I was seeing some of the greats that I idolized as a kid. And they were positioning me as far as being the next one. and it just felt amazing when you like think about all the great ones that were given that position of being great by the ones before them it just felt like it was a we love you we appreciate you we know you from the west coast but the way you represent hip-hop is yours take off and run with it so that's still you in that evolution did you eventually lose that and you're like no i'm on it now or do you sometimes still feel that way around some artists i mean i feel like that about all the artists i've ever felt like that about whether it's rappers r &b country music like when i met willie nelson for the first time it was like crazy because he was like calm and i was excited and then we went in that green room and we both got calm you understand what i'm saying but like People like that.

17:30Yeah. You know, like, to meet Willie Nelson was like a hype for me because I know what he means to music and I know what he means to America. And just to know that he know me and wanted to work with me and we made records together, we did shows together, and we built a brotherhood. We got to talk about your flow. You walked in here just fresh off the music you're making. I'm not your father. Lady of Rage, who worked with you back in the day, described you like this. When I worked with him, he would freestyle. He wasn't a writer then, he was a freestyler. D.O.C., he didn't write nothing down. He just came in and started busting.

18:11On the shiznit, it was all freestyle. When we got to the break, Dre cut the machine off, did the chorus, and told Snoop, just come right back in. That's when Snoop was in the zone. Do you still do it like that? And where does that come from? I always did it like that, but sometimes I like to be like more into making sure that this song and this concept is locked in. And if I'm thinking too fast and freestyling, I may miss a beat. So sometimes with the freestyle, I can freestyle a whole song and I can come back and take a few words out and move a few things around. Because the body and the bass is there.

18:47Now I want to make sure it's perfection, make sure that all of my words and all of my cadences are on point and making sure that my flow is right and I'm sounding like I'm supposed to sound. So it's real particular, but then at the same time, it's not because it's just me saying what's on my mind. I pulled something you said about making your music and rapping the way you treat a baby. Do you remember this? Tell me what I said. Quote, you know how you would be real sensitive and delicate with a newborn baby? That's how I treat the beat when I'm rapping, like a newborn baby. Even if it's a hard track, what I'm saying will move you because I'm delicately putting it down.

19:30That's young Snoop Dogg. That was right when Doggy Style came out. That's young Snoop Dogg talking like that. If you think about all of the music I made, that's the approach of it. Like when you hear Snoop's voice come on a track, it sounds like he's changing a baby's diaper. As far as the delicate touch of the way he comes on. It's never like, hey man, I'm on a song. It's like one, two or something. And with so much, it's always the right energy, the way you like it feels like it was supposed to slide right in there. Hip-hop was initially thought of as a trend. Now it's, as you said, it's rock and roll.

20:03Kanye said you guys are the new rock stars now. Is that flow going to always work? Because today we've got it shifting into the singing. Yeah, but I mean, if you think about me, I was singing and rapping. Respect. Ain't nothing but a G thing, baby. That's rapping and singing at the same time. So, you know, you can't reinvent the wheel. They're going to always try to put a new name on it, but it's the same thing. It's been going on since the beginning of time. Even the things that I'm doing ain't brand new. It's just I got a new name for it, and it's a new persona that's pushing it. Somebody was creating this type of vibe and doing this way before me.

20:34You just don't know who that person is because they probably didn't have no spotlight on them or the attention on them. But I'm just a spirit of a spirit that was here before me. And I feel like after I'm gone, it's going to be 100 years from now, and it's going to be somebody doing it just like Snoop Dogg. and everybody's like, you know, it's somebody that used to do it just like you. And you're like, who? You ain't going to know him, man, but his name is Snoop Dogg. Who? Snoop Dogg. Look him up, man. He's in the history books. He's right next to Jesus and Gandhi and Ali. His name is right there.

21:05And someone else might be on that list, which I saw you have the art right back here of Tupac. Yeah, that's the dog. That's my dog. And we have just right at the height when there was so much excitement, also tension. This is you guys. I'm sure you'll remember MTV. At a table. There's no dream of making an album with Biggie and Puffy, or none of them. We're not sweating it like that. This is our family over here. We peacefully coexist right now because we all cool. Everybody's here. Everybody's... They sell records. We sell records. Well, I guess you could call that selling records, what they do.

21:34We sell large amounts of records, and they sell a few records. Really, there's no competition. He was so sarcastic. How do you remember Pac now? So, Pac didn't give a fuck. If he loved you, he loved you. If he hated you, he hated you. Wasn't no in-between, wasn't no cut. And he loved to love people. So he wasn't just a natural, aggressive, mad at you kind of person. He naturally loved people. Because if you notice everybody that he hated, he used to be in love with them. He loved people. He loved to represent for his people. He was the voice for us. If you think about his music and the things he was saying and doing, He was speaking to a lot of things that I'm speaking to now and doing now.

22:19He was speaking to 20-some years ago. He was so far ahead, and he wasn't angry at the justice system. He was angry at injustice. He was angry at the system. Not the justice system, the system in general. The system that's designed to bring the black man down. Because remember, he's a Black Panther. So he's seen it directly as far as how the Black Panthers was organized to help out the black community, put back into helping the kids and just structure us as far as having our own values and the way we live. And then you see Edgar Hoover is documented now. They killed him. They killed him. So how you think he's supposed to feel when the only, let's imagine like our positive role models, the football players and the basketball players and the athletes and entertainers, and they decided to come together and say, okay, we're going to help out our people.

23:05And all of a sudden the government kill them. How do you think their kids are going to feel about the next generation. So that's the way Tupac felt. That's the way we felt. But just not feeling that way, we made a difference. We was able to do something. We was able to have a voice. We was able to move mountains. We was able to unite people. And we was able to even unite color lines because Tupac loved all people. And I love all people. He didn't just make music for black people. It was just we were trying to help black people because we've seen what was done to us when we tried to help each other.

23:35And those facts were there and documented. But so much of establishment America and white America lied about it or ignored it. And we've had a little bit more of this reckoning in the last few years, along with rising hate. You mentioned the Malcolm X case. You've got the actual prosecutors and FBI clearing people that were set up and talking about police misconduct and wrongdoing. You've got more videos now of the things that were obviously documented back then. We have some of Pac on all these issues. I want to play for you because it's one thing to be right at the time. It's another thing to be ahead of your time.

24:13And we were just preparing this and thinking about speaking with you, Snoop. So much of this is so ahead of the time of what people are, some people are only waking up to. So I want to play this for your thoughts. I don't want to be 50 years old at a BET We Shall Overcome Achievement Awards. You know what I'm saying? Uh-uh, not me. Every time I speak, I want the truth to come out. You know what I'm saying? Every time I speak, I want to shiver. The same crime element that white people fear, we fear. So we defend ourselves from the same crime element that they scared of. It's not my liking for guns.