Dems 2028 darkhorse? Gov. Andy Beshear talks to Ari about red state wins & life after MAGA

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1:06We'll jump right into it. We'll do some tough questions, as you mentioned, at some point, maybe a lightning round fast at the end. But let's start with something that's positive for you, but true. You have one of the highest in-state approval ratings of any Democratic governor. That includes a lot of Democrats in blue states with way more Democratic voters than you would naturally have, depending on the year. So why is that? Why are you more popular in Kentucky than Democrats are in even blue states? Well, I'm not sure I can compare with any other specific governor, but I go about my job as trying to be the best governor of Kentucky I can be, not being the best Democratic governor of Kentucky that I can be.

1:50You know, I take that oath of office and my job is to preserve the Constitution and then to work as hard as I can for each and every one of my families. So I can go into a county where I won 20 percent of the vote and I am just as thrilled at the new jobs we're putting in there. And each time that we do that, we talk about the fact that a good job, a new bridge, a new senior center, isn't red or blue. It's not Democrat or Republican. It's just good for that community. And what we try to do is show people our work. I call that getting dirt on your boots. It's getting out there. So if we built a new road that saves you 40 minutes each way, all that time you have with your family that you are not commuting.

2:31I understand you all know commuting in New York. that you know where that came from. And when you see someone, Democrat, Republican, I mean, actually working day in and day out to better your life, and you actually see results in it, I think that changes the way that people answer that approval question. It changes the way they vote. But it's the acknowledgement that the signing in what used to be the Rose Garden, maybe in the future will be the ballroom, we'll see. It's only a billion. isn't real anymore. The time between when legislation is signed and when people can see it in their daily lives has gotten too long over time.

3:13And so we need to be able to show what the IRA did, how that new factory with the new jobs came because of specific policies being pushed through and then the execution of them. And so it's about getting out there and actually showing people what their faith in you is helping to create. And you're here with us at a time where politics is very fractured. People who follow politics have a bunch of topics and we focus on that. But daily life, as you mentioned, is a whole different conversation. So in New York, you're here by Wall Street, right? We've got stocks are hitting record highs and the tech stocks are still on this bull run.

3:52And people who are involved in that say, oh, pretty good for them. In most of the country, prices are up, gas is up, people are now taking out more credit card debt just to pay for weekly gas. They don't know what's going to come next. And so in your state as a model, what do you think are the economic or daily life things that matter the most? And your time as governor is involved in expanding health care, investments in your state, which you mentioned, prices you have less control over. What are the things in that daily life that matter most to people? And how does that compare to the political topics we hear about?

4:25Regardless of the stock market, the American people are struggling. The price of gas impacts everything in our economy. But if you're in middle America, it's the price of diesel, which is even higher, which powers your farm machinery, probably your truck as well. Groceries are hitting people in ways that they're struggling about how they're going to pay for their child's next medication with the increase. Right now, the average age of first-time new homeownership is 40 years old. Tell me how we preserve that American dream if that young couple, probably with kids in middle America, can't afford that first home.

5:05I think the way we go about it is to recognize, again, those things aren't partisan. and they're just critically important to the people of your state and of this country. So what we were able to do is to make significant investments in affordable housing. We even took a tragedy and turned it into a triumph. We took dollars from FEMA to help rebuild after tornadoes and floods. We ran it through our Affordable Housing Trust Fund, where we leveraged about$9 of private money for every$1 of public. We're building over$200 million of affordable housing in western Kentucky, where those tornadoes went through, and in eastern Kentucky, where we have flooded time after time after time.

5:46We're moving people with those dollars from the hollers, those are the valleys, up on top of former coal mines that flattened the mountains. They're getting brand new water, sewer, broadband. We're even putting solar panels on top of the house so that affordable home to buy is also affordable to live in because the average utility bill is$50 a month. In Kentucky, we're building housing on top of coal mines with solar panels on them. So don't tell me nothing is impossible or something is impossible in this country. We're also focused on wages. You're right, costs can be tough when you're governor, though I just lowered our gas tax by 10 cents because that's something I do have the authority to do.

6:29We declare it an emergency because for our families, it is an emergency. We'll make up the revenue, but I would rather us have to deal with a hole in our budget than our families not make it. But on the wage side, we've looked at what jobs are we actually gonna incentivize? What jobs are we gonna chase? And our answer has been higher wage, especially manufacturing jobs. And we have the highest number of manufacturing jobs in Kentucky since I think about 2006. While you're seeing the rest of the country bleed those jobs, We're proving through companies like GE Appliances that you can make things in the United States again while paying good, in that instance, union wages to your people.

7:11And then I think about health care. My goal was that every Kentuckian could see the doctor they needed to see in their own town or county. We built the first hospital in our largest African-American community in 150 years. It served 60 ,000 people the first year it was open from the six neighborhoods around it. People healthier, more productive. But then you look at what we face right now. As tariffs are hitting the American people, we pay 90 % of them. It slowed down economic growth because if you're trying to reshore, if you're trying to make something for the first time in the United States, you're going to import everything it takes to build it and to make it.

7:53And so you're making that project cost 30%. or 40 % more. So as we look at all of those, the impact that the big ugly bill is going to have on healthcare, the refusal to extend the ACA tax credits, those are the things that are hammering the American people. And while we might not be able to see them all at this moment, when it hits, especially as it hits rural America, it's going to be dramatic. I'd just close with this. That big ugly bill threatens to close 35 rural hospitals in Kentucky. Every single one of them is the number two employer behind the school system. Every one of them is the number one payroll.

8:35And so if you can think about it in terms of the 20 ,000 people that would lose their jobs or the lack of healthcare services where a Kentucky woman has to drive an hour and a half just to give birth, or you can think about it in the fact that if you remove the largest payroll in that community, it's not just the hospitals, local restaurant, coffee shop, bank, and insurance company, all of which close. Looking at the midterms, in a sentence, what do you think the current National Democrats message is? Then we can talk about what yours would be, but what is it? Oh, it should be the American dream and making sure that it is real for a large portion of the public.

9:11I mean, I think - And what is it? What do you hear from National Democrats? I give you mine, but I'm curious what you hear more and more. I hear a lot of different messages from National Democrats, but I would tell you this from Democratic governors. I think you hear the same message. But to slow you down, like what we're hearing a lot in the news, right? We hear no kings and the kind of democracy movement. We hear a little bit about healthcare, but that's ebbed and flowed. Anti-ice for sure. And then some talk about prices, economy, inflation. So I'm curious because you're going to be driving some of this.

9:41What do you think their message is? And then tell us about the dream. The other pieces and parts are important. Listen, our democracy is really important. But what we saw in 2024 is if you are struggling, if you can't pay for your child's next prescription, you'll vote for anybody who you believe can help you. We saw a lot of pro-choice voters vote for Donald Trump. We saw people who hadn't voted for a Republican before vote for Donald Trump. Rightly or wrongly, he convinced that last group that he would work harder. And so I think where the Democratic Party has to start, but I wish the Republican Party would too, is those non-partisan challenges that hammer our families every day is where all of our policy ought to start.

10:24Because Harris closed on this democracy message going back to Jan 6th, hugely important. I doubt anyone in this room is for insurrection. I hope not. Right. But the closing was on that. You think that's a mistake? Well, it's really easy to look at an election after it's done and talk about how you would have done it differently. I think what happened on the Democratic side was near the end, there were say 50 different messages to sub parts of the population. And Donald Trump had about two. And one of them was things cost too much, and I'm going to help you. And what it turns out is that no matter what sub part of the American population you're in, things cost too much, and you need a little bit of help.

11:09It's that idea that you can't reach those issues you care about if you're struggling with your basic needs. And I just think about it. If you can't take your kids on the same vacation that your parents took you on, do you feel like a failure? Are you looking for that help? Do you believe the system is rigged? Because if you get up every day and you work hard and you play by the rules and you're still falling behind, then all of a sudden you think that the system doesn't work and you're willing to vote for somebody different. Our goal as a Democratic Party isn't that we should have the same system that we've always had, but the system we have ought to work for those that are willing to put in the effort and to push for their families.

11:49I don't know if you want to answer this, but if the midterms were held today, who do you think would win? Midterms held today, Democrats win the House, though I don't know by how much given this crazy redistricting we are seeing. It's a problem. It's going to need to be resolved. I think ultimately it's going to have to be resolved by a constitutional amendment that we ought to have non-partisan drawing of these districts that voters ought to choose their elected officials, not the other way around. But I'll go a step further. If we're going to have a constitutional amendment, let's change campaign finance in it too.

12:28and there are some who won't agree with me on this, but I also think it's time for term limits all the way through. I call it the fix our country amendment that I think a lot of people could get on board with. That'd be for Congress or judges as well? I think it ought to be across the board. Now, I'm someone who is term limited, so I may have a different approach than others. And I don't know exactly what the years should be, but should you be in one job for 40 plus years? And I think it's fair to say that some of that has created some of the levels of division. Look at Mitch McConnell from Kentucky.

13:07And as long as he served, and from my observation, it turned into anything for one more seat, that that was the approach. Change on any issue, change on any support. Don't convict the president the last time because it might cause them a seat. And so I think we've just got to look at how we get beyond what afflicts our country right now. So I think Democrats would win the House. I've got to tell you, Democrats are making a real run at the U.S. Senate. It's getting more possible every day because you can't redistrict a statewide election. And then I think we pick up governor seats, too. If I were going to tell you today, I think Rob Sand wins Iowa.

13:50I think Amy Acton is running a very close race in Ohio. I think Nevada and Georgia are absolutely in play, but I think that there are a lot of other races that are going to pop up and surprise people. And you haven't ruled out running for president. Well, right now I'm focused on being the best governor of Kentucky I can be. You haven't ruled it out. The best DGA chair. And then after that. You're not ruling it out today. I'm not ruling it out today. You're not ruling it out today. Here's what I'm a lawyerly way to get you in there, but go ahead. They told me you were lawyers. You were coming up.

14:24I'm supposed to depose, not be deposed. I walked off the stage in 2023. That was my reelection. I looked at my wife. I did this big breath out and I said, we'll never have to run for any office ever again. And when I said it, I meant it. I want you to know that getting to be attorney general and a two-term governor in a state you're from is enough. It's an amazing opportunity. And I've worked my tail off every single day to try to better the lives of all of the people in my state. I'm proud of what we've done. I'm proud that we've achieved together and that the temperature is down. And then I can go into just about any county and we're talking about the successes that we have had together, that we have less urban versus rural friction than we've ever seen.

15:11I think UK and UofL maybe hate each other a little bit less than they did before. But I won't leave a broken country to my kids. And that could take a lot of different forms. But it's got to be one where the next leader of the United States of America is in a position to not just win, and I think Democrats have to win this next election, but also to govern in a way that brings people back together, that we maybe hit our McCarthyism moment where people take a breath and say that went too far, that we can get back to patriotism, where we believe that as Americans we've got to stick together and that our real enemies, because they're out there, are external and not internal.

15:56Well, let's run the hypothetical on your candidacy. And this is fun because when I interview in the news, we're talking about the big topics, and we don't have the extra time. Here we have a little time. So I'll do the pro and the con of what a lot of folks in the Democratic Party are saying. And then you can respond however you want. The pro is some of what we've already heard today, that you have a no-nonsense leader out of the model of past winning campaigns where governors tend to do better than people out of Washington. And that if you're a new figure, as Clinton was initially the nation or Carter, that's worked before.

16:27There's a comparison if you use history. They say history echoes or rhymes. There's a comparison that after Nixon's Watergate, you've got Carter. You've got this sort of clean, southern, uplifting energy, a type of person who in a different era might not have won. And they see you as a Carter to Trump's Nixon. And that you address this sort of decay and distrust and criminality and partisanship not by saying, oh, we're going to double down. Gavin Newsom does a lot of Trump mimic tweets for liberal issues. And some people like that. And other people say, I don't know, that seems a little retrograde.

17:03What if you actually just ran someone who embodied the civic spirit and even the outreach and some nonpartisanship? Sound good? This is nice. I'm saying nice things. Feel free to say that on air. And that your numbers speak to that. I mentioned the state polling and just a lack of of acrimony in a time that's full of it and in a place where it would be easy to caricature a Democrat. But they haven't been able to lay that glove on you for whatever reasons. That's the positive. The negatives are the Daily Show, which is how a lot more people get information than news, I'm afraid. They said you're I checked.

17:40They said you're, quote, too boring, unquote. No offense. Just telling you what they're saying. That was the host from Kentucky too She is from Kentucky That stunned a little bit John Stewart didn't say that No it wasn't the main host And there are other folks who say Well something that hasn't come up today It's great to have a family tradition But what if you're a quote Nepo baby because of your family in politics What if you're caricatured as somehow Just another one of these folks Waiting their turn entitled etc that you don't fit the broad activist movement of the Democratic Party. So how do you hypothetically respond to any of the pros and cons, or are we wasting our time because you're just never going to run?

18:24Well, I am who I am. And if I'm the person for the moment that can heal this country, it's something I'll consider. If I'm not, that's okay with me. I'm in this right now. I'm speaking reason into chaos because I love the United States of America and I want my kids to have a stable United States of America. When I think about the boring criticism, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't get our entertainment from the federal government?

18:56Some people call that stability. And listen, I understand those that are pushing back with the memes and the others. They've seen National Guard deployed in their states, but that's just not me. My approach is different. I don't criticize other people's, but I've got to stay true. to who I am, to show people that authenticity. In terms of the Nepo baby thing, let me tell you, I am so proud of my dad. And you'll never hear me criticize him because my dad was first generation college. My granddad, who we miss, his parents couldn't afford to send him. He worked hard. He saved up. He bought the local funeral home and he sent one kid to med school, another kid to law school who became the governor of Kentucky.

19:41I mean, I'm two generations from poor Baptist ministers in Western Kentucky. If that's the best that people have to throw at me, I'm okay with it. I know who I am. My family has always been tight. We do these things together. But I think as we look forward, we've got to be looking not just at a candidate who can address affordability, but also one that brings electability. My favorite question, you've never asked me this, that I sometimes get asked is they say, oh, you'd be a great candidate for the general, you can win. But what about the primary? Well, if you're in a party and you've got a candidate that can win the general, shouldn't you be considering them in a primary?

20:27It's that idea that you can get votes in a red state. Do you think you can get them in a purple state? So if you can convince voters that never vote for a Democrat to do once or twice? Can you convince voters that regularly do it? But going back to the very beginning, one of the things I've been blessed with is I'm comfortable in my skin. The criticisms don't hit me, and I'm good with who I am. I try to lead in a way that brings people together. I try to be a good husband to Brittany. I try to be a good dad to my two kids. They are teenagers, so please pray for me. But that's who you'd get. Reading up on you for today, there's stuff that's different than other politicians.

21:09I wonder if you just share, like they say you're always running early for meetings, which that was not how de Blasio was. It's not how Trump was. We've seen him. I've covered events where he's left his own supporters in terrible weather for two and a half hours. But Obama ran late a lot. What is this thing with you? They say this in Kentucky, that you go to the meeting, you go to the speech, you're there before the other people. What is this about? Well, I try to respect everybody's time. And I also started out as a lawyer where I had to bill every six minutes of my time, accounting for each and every part of it.

21:46I miss it. One of my former law partners is right here. I miss billing six minutes at a time. It's much more fun than TV. But it's that idea of of showing respect to the places that you're going, to the people that you're coming to see. See, most of the time when you're traveling, it's during the week. People are leaving their jobs. People are coming here to the luncheon. It's showing you respect, knowing that it's not my time that's more precious than yours, that your time is critically important too. It's that idea of meeting people where they are, which we talk about a lot. But if you're 30 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour late, you're not helping anybody.

22:24And it also sometimes looks like you think that you are above other folks. That and growing up, my parents were always late. Like this somehow became a part of my psyche. I was the last kid picked up from soccer practice every single time. There was a point where the coach started taking me home so he wouldn't have to wait around. And so I would say it's a mix of showing respect and childhood trauma. You know, so it's really interesting because it's like there's an emotional content to that. I mean, you don't present as someone who looks like they're covered in therapy speak or yada, yada, but you're saying that you, because there's a story, I'm not talking out of school here, where de Blasio was supposed to meet Schumer after the election, and he was an hour and 20 minutes late.

23:12And it came off like, respectfully, you're the mayor, but like, this is the top Democrat in the country, and also like, get it together. And you're saying that you actually think Think of it that way, that you wouldn't want to give people the wrong impression. That's right. And traffic isn't nearly as bad in Kentucky. We can get places. No, I mean, if I schedule a meeting for a certain time, I want to be there at a certain time because I know that person's going to be there at that time. And you never know how important that meeting could be. Some of the best ideas that I've received as governor, and one way to be a good governor is to know there are a lot of great ideas out there, and you don't have them all.

23:48and your team doesn't have them all. And sometimes that 15 minute meeting that if I was running late, I wouldn't get to sit in would be the meeting that would change things. I remember sitting down with the folks in the ACT and they went over how much students go up every time they take the test. But we only pay for it once in Kentucky. And I remember thinking, okay, so three to four points, that equals X numbers and scholarship money or getting into school, how much would it cost me? It was under a million dollars. We got a$17 billion budget that we control. It's bigger than that with all the other funds that come in.

24:24But all I had to find is$1 million to help all those students. I mean, that was a meeting where somebody else had that idea that I'd been running late. We wouldn't have been able to implement. On the personal side, you're also a big jogger. And you look young for a politician. Right? It was better before the pandemic. Tell us about that and how you stay sane and anything we might not know about you that goes to your, you know, how you balance out the rest of your life. You know, as governor, when you show up to work every day, you have a plan. And then 18 different things happen and you respond.

25:05And so I try to approach it each day with a level of discipline to be ready for that. So I do about three miles on the treadmill every morning. Sometimes it's running, sometimes it's walking, because you can actually read something and not fall off the treadmill when you're walking. Try to make sure that I see my kids off to school each morning, because I don't know what might keep me late in that day. And it's that, even sometimes with them, five or ten minutes that I can actually look at them face to face and not talk through the door of their room, that we can have that moment. And as I get home every day, I try to at least make a couple of their activities a week, especially if they have them on the weekends.

25:48I love watching my daughter ride horses. She's an equestrian, so I'm broke. And then my son's a baseball player. And I was really worried about how much of it I would make until somebody told me that the only person that can control your schedule when you're governor is you. And so I've made sure we've carved out those times. It may mean I come back to calls later in the evening, but to me, that's my sanity. So I became governor in December of 2019 and in March, the pandemic hit. And I will admit my dad had been governor for eight years. I'd been attorney general and litigated just about every power of the governor in the interim.