DOJ Approves Paramount Deal to Buy Warner Bros.

12 Jun 2026 · 41 min · 18 chapters

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In short

The DOJ’s approval of Paramount’s $110B acquisition of Warner Bros/Discovery, framed as enabling MAGA-aligned control over major TV news (CBS and CNN), plus discussion of Trump’s broader “control of coverage” strategy. The episode also pivots to Elon Musk’s SpaceX IPO and Krugman’s critique of Musk’s valuation and political influence, and ends with an interview segment featuring The LOX.

Guests (backgrounds)

  • Che Comanduri, veteran political strategist tracking media/political power issues.
  • Juanita Tolliver, political commentator.
  • Paul Krugman, Nobel Prize–winning economist; author/columnist and Substack writer.
  • The LOX (Styles P, Jadakiss, Sheek Louch), New York hip-hop group.

Key claims

  • DOJ review clears the merger without likely consumer harm, but the show argues the real goal is political leverage via CNN/CBS.
  • Ellison is portrayed as able to “pick up the phone” to Trump and shape outcomes.
  • Krugman calls Musk’s IPO valuation a “Ponzi scheme,” citing weak fundamentals and “rigging” via index/institutional buying and policy favoritism.

Notable examples

  • Scott Pelley alleging pressure to inject falsehoods at 60 Minutes; Caitlin Collins as CNN anchor.
  • California lawsuits mentioned as possible challenges.
  • SpaceX IPO opening around $150B valuation and rising ~20%.
  • Krugman’s examples: Hyperloop/self-driving promises not realized; universities/endowments investing in SpaceX.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

DOJ Approves Paramount Deal

1:06 to 1:31

Discussing the DOJ's approval of a significant media merger.

“We're talking about the over$100 billion deal by Paramount, controlled by MAGA allies, the Ellisons, to acquire CNN, HBO, and the entire Warner Brothers empire.”

Media Landscape and Censorship

1:32 to 2:28

Examining the implications of the merger on media bias and censorship.

“But lurking behind all this are all the big names that you've been hearing about.”

The Impact on Journalism

2:29 to 2:41

How the merger may affect independent journalism in the US.

Trump's Influence on Media

2:42 to 3:50

Exploring Trump's expectations and influence over CNN through the merger.

“Paramount Plus, which is part of that original company I mentioned, CBS, the news division there that's been roiled by crises and complaints from longstanding journalists there who've been nonpartisan and independent.”

The Oligarchy Strikes Back

3:51 to 5:55

A look at the broader implications of oligarchic control in media.

“Che, I could, of course, bring on an antitrust expert or regulator if we thought that the main point in the story was whether the DOJ's antitrust analysis on harming consumers was accurate or not.”

Legal Challenges Ahead

5:56 to 7:11

Potential legal hurdles and implications of the merger.

“We had Scott Pelley, the veteran 60 Minutes anchor up on the screen, and we can put him back up in a minute to remind people because all of the the corporate names, it's like a skit.”

Trump's Legal Troubles

7:12 to 10:10

Discussion on Trump's recent legal setbacks and their implications.

“This might not be fully signed, sealed, delivered, but as far as the Trump DOJ is concerned, it is.”

Public Perception and Corruption

10:11 to 14:00

Analyzing public sentiment regarding corruption and Trump's actions.

“and vanity-related are still the final word in this country, even if MAGA and Trump folks wish they weren't.”

Setting the Scene: Reality Show Politics

14:00 to 14:15

Discussion on the absurdity of political events compared to reality shows.

“Reality show gambits when Americans are increasingly fed up.”

Upcoming Show: Jacob Soborov

15:01 to 15:14

Promotion of Jacob Soborov's upcoming show on MSNOW.

“From the field to the studio, Jacob is finding the heart of the story.”
Show all 18 chapters

Trump's Upcoming Birthday and the Cage Match

15:18 to 21:25

Analysis of the absurdity surrounding Trump's birthday event and its implications.

“It feels absurd for the timing of it happening.”

Elon Musk Becomes the World's First Trillionaire

21:26 to 22:26

Discussion on the implications of Elon Musk's valuation as the first trillionaire.

“As we follow that news and the breaking news, it's Friday.”

Paul Krugman's Critique of Musk's Valuation

22:27 to 28:07

Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman discusses the valuation of Musk's companies.

“maybe on Earth and in space tonight, Certainly a big story on Wall Street, but it also matters for our society and our politics.”

The Ponzi Scheme of Wealth Accumulation

28:07 to 33:16

Explore the moral implications of extreme wealth and its impact on democracy.

“The valuation, there's no conceivable way.”

DOJ Approval of Paramount and Warner Bros. Merger

33:16 to 34:31

Discussion on the implications of DOJ's approval for a major media merger.

“Professor, thank you and have a good weekend.”

Cultural References in New York

34:31 to 36:36

Analyzing the influence of hip-hop culture on contemporary New York politics.

“We do have a little break, but coming back, we will turn to a topic I mentioned that's pretty interesting, why Mayor Mamdani's liberalism is sparking a wider conversation about what Democrats can get done.”

The Legacy of The Locks in Hip-Hop

36:36 to 42:02

The Locks discuss their journey, significance, and relationship with New York City.

“So starting with you, when you say New York hip hop and you see that's what you personify, how does that feel being able to look at it now?”

Introduction and Excitement

42:02 to 42:29

The host expresses excitement and gratitude for the audience's presence.

“I stay in the loop only when it matters.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Juanita Tolliver:This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers? Uh-huh. Balls? Yep. Headers? Every goal is worth more on FanDuel. So, let there be goals. New customers get$350 in bonus bets guaranteed when you bet$5 for seven days. 21 plus in present and select states. First online real money wager only. Minimum$5 wager required for seven consecutive days. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET.

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1:00Welcome to The Beat. I'm Ari Melborough, and we begin tracking some major breaking news. The Trump administration, through the Department of Justice, has basically approved or cleared the way for that massive and controversial media merger that you've probably heard so much about. We're talking about the over$100 billion deal by Paramount, controlled by MAGA allies, the Ellisons, to acquire CNN, HBO, and the entire Warner Brothers empire. Now, the DOJ conducted what they called eight months of review, and they say on the evidence, they've concluded that this deal is not likely to have harm to competition or American consumers.

1:40So that is the formal process. But lurking behind all this are all the big names that you've been hearing about. Scott Pelley at 60 Minutes, The Colbert Show ending the overt demands for censorship and favoritism by President Trump, his FCC chair and others to try to use or abuse their government oversight, their power to regulate and to control potentially the outcome of these mergers to demand or shake down the coverage they say they deserve or want. So in other words, what I'm reporting on tonight is really the next step in this ongoing process. For those wondering why the clash at CBS seemed so big or why the new CBS owners, Paramount, seemed so intent on making changes like ending Colbert and changing 60 Minutes, which has resulted in the ousting of top talent there and many producers and seen the clash we've been covering over the last two weeks.

2:35Well, that is context for this. the merger brings together the movie studio, the streaming service like HBO Max, Paramount Plus, which is part of that original company I mentioned, CBS, the news division there that's been roiled by crises and complaints from longstanding journalists there who've been nonpartisan and independent. In other words, this isn't like a liberal thing and a culture clash with, say, MAGA ownership, but more of an independent journalism thing. 60 Minutes, of course, the most watched news program in America, clashing with what they say were overt demands to be more MAGA-friendly and, according to Scott Pelley, inject falsehoods into coverage.

3:14CNN would also now come under this one company, led by David Ellison, the son of one of the richest people in the world, on a night where there's new developments on that. We're going to talk later in the broadcast about a billionaire turned trillionaire, Elon Musk, but Ellison is the son of the MAGA billionaire, Larry Ellison, And we are looking at the financial and business and political intersection at the top of the world economy and questions for the DOJ over whether this was in some way pay to play or even something unethical or illegal. I want to bring in Che Comanduri, a veteran political strategist who has followed this issue closely.

3:55Che, I could, of course, bring on an antitrust expert or regulator if we thought that the main point in the story was whether the DOJ's antitrust analysis on harming consumers was accurate or not. But as you know, and I think a lot of our viewers know, and as 60 Minutes vet Scott Pelley and others have said, that's not really what this story is about. What is this story about and what matters in the Trump administration moving forward on this merger today? Well, it's about the oligarchy striking back. You know, we've heard all about how Trump is weakened. But the reality is, is that he has as his allies the richest men in the world.

4:39And one thing that Trump wanted was control of CNN. Now, if you look at Warner Brothers Discovery, CNN is a very, very, very small part of that business. But for Donald Trump, that was the entire his entire interest in the deal. Donald Trump and the DOJ weren't interested in who was going to be the next Batman. They were very much interested in who gets to be the CNN White House correspondent. president, you know, I think that's a position that Caitlin Collins currently has, who anchors those shows, what the content of those programs are, what the coverage of the administration will be. This is something that Donald Trump believes is crucial to his and MAGA's future success, especially at a time when his approval ratings are declining.

5:29You know, when your approval ratings are declining, when things aren't going well, you can still turn on Fox and hear a lot of good news about Trump. Now, if you can replicate that on CNN and you can diminish and downsize the voices in opposition to Trump or the criticism of moves of the Trump administration, that gives Trump a lot more power and cards to play in American politics. And that's what this deal was all about. We had Scott Pelley, the veteran 60 Minutes anchor up on the screen, and we can put him back up in a minute to remind people because all of the the corporate names, it's like a skit.

6:08You know, it's like Cable Vision, Paramount Plus, HBO Max. You know, the point is in politics and news and democracy that people like Scott Pelley, who clearly had a 37 year track record. He says these new owners, the people who today are getting a bigger merger, asked him to inject falsehoods that favored the Trump administration. He says it was MAGA bias. He said it came in and he was being pressed to do things that he'd never been pressed to do in over three decades at 60 Minutes. That story, the Colbert story, do you see that as relevant in the Trump administration now going along with the deal?

6:46And is that then a precursor for CNN? Yeah, I mean, I think it's more than relevant. I think that's an absolute precedent that has been set by the Ellisons to show Trump what they could have done, what they could do to CNN. The stories that we have heard out of CBS News will be peanuts compared to the stories that will probably come out from CNN once this deal, if this deal actually goes through. I know there's some lawsuits with California. This might not be fully signed, sealed, delivered, but as far as the Trump DOJ is concerned, it is. And that is exactly where we're going to be heading. We're going to be heading to more incidents like the kind that Scott Pelley has seen.

7:28And in addition, I would also remind viewers that, you know, when this deal was going through, it was very striking to me that David Ellison would advertise to shareholders that unlike Netflix, he could give merger approval. He could give government approval for all the moves that this new company would make, that that was a real selling point that he had over Netflix, that he could say, look, Donald Trump is an ally with me. I can pick up the phone, call him in the Oval Office, and whatever we need to have happen will happen because I have that kind of relationship with the president. That was something that Netflix was unable to advertise.

8:11And that led to Ellison being very successful in his acquisition of this company. Exactly and many remember the Netflix chief was actually at the White House the day that some of this shifted and they had the photos of him walking out and in a system that's working well you want the government to protect rules and transparency in the market but not be as conservatives used to criticize Jay not be picking winners and losers. Here, that's gone out the window. There's nothing conservative or free market fundamental about this. You have a shakedown attitude from Trump and Carr. You have some people, the DOJ, who then try to pretty it back up.

8:50The statement we got, I will mention, had the usual verbiage and language about the review of market power, consumers. It may be that consumers were going to get a similar deal from similar giant mergers. Whether it was good or not, it may be that Netflix or this streaming synergy with Paramount was similar. But against that backdrop, you have this shakedown. And then you said that's because Trump doesn't like the actual stories that are being reported in the real world going into the midterms. And that sort of brings us to the next piece. Che, I want you to stick with me and we're going to bring in one more guest because the Warner merger news is breaking late in the day, you know, Friday night.

9:28Sometimes you get news on a Friday night. And so we wanted to bring that as it breaks. But the other context, which Che mentioned, is how Trump is ending another week of losses. We have photos and imagery from Washington that shows the limits of Trump's power. This is the live picture at the Kennedy Center. You have the scaffolding. Workers are going to be removing Trump's name because no matter how much he wishes he was the kind of king, autocrat, or leader who could decree something, and that's all it would be, we still have a system with the rule of law. And while it's been strained and stressed, and I've told you that, and I'm not here to tell you everything works perfectly, this delisting of this ham-handed effort by Trump to slap his name on the Kennedy Center speaks to the fact that the courts on matters large, medium, and sometimes small and vanity-related are still the final word in this country, even if MAGA and Trump folks wish they weren't.

10:18It follows another ruling from a federal judge about removing his name. The Trump DOJ is trying to see if they can find a way around this, but that's the current law of the land. And the growing legal pushback has changed what Trump can get away with. is DOJ dealt a fresh loss on that criminal fund where they already got frozen in court. Now a federal judge says they're blocking any such fund. And that could limit even the backdoor efforts we've read about this week where they said, well, what if we call it a different name or channel it through a different place? Well, if there's a judicial order blocking it, that will prevent the federal government from releasing those funds, period.

10:55Now, Trump's DOJ gets a week to enter a clear and unambiguous declaration that the fund is dead, that must be signed, note this, by the Treasury secretary and the head of the DOJ. That's putting multiple officials on record. Of course, Treasury is where the money would come from, typically. And DOJ, if they try to use that other fund I mentioned, well, they both would be barred from it. It is a huge setback for Blanche. Ten days ago, he was the one trying to dodge on what the plans were, even as this thing was flailing in court.

11:27Juanita Tolliver:You established it in writing, so it just makes sense to rescind it in writing. I think a lot of Americans, both sides of the aisle, are concerned about it, and it would restore a lot of trust about this issue. Okay, I'm not committing to doing anything in writing. I'm not committing. Okay. I mean, I'll take it under advisement. A judge is basically telling Blanche's DOJ to stop with the games. If you've followed our coverage this week, remember I mentioned that in typical times, the DOJ gets some trust, but increasingly they don't trust the DOJ. Then there's the White House UFC edition. Take a listen.

12:051 p.m., folks beginning to line up over toward the mall and over toward the White House, and then a line of perhaps strong to severe thunderstorms around 2, 3 o 'clock. Once that batch moves on out, it appears that we're in the clear, but it does not necessarily mean it's going to be the case. Another round of strong to severe thunderstorms are possible at that point with gusty winds and heavy downpours. And by 9, 10 o 'clock, that's when things should begin to clear on out. If you don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind blows, the takeaway there is there is at least a risk of a rain on Trump's parade, so to speak.

12:42Apologies to Dillard. More seriously, though, is the question of corruption. The White House has talked a lot about how Trump's not personally involved in stuff, but of course, he does own underlying company stock in the UFC. They've been donating to Trump. The corporate logos are everywhere. Polymarket, crypto.com. Polling shows Americans disapprove of this. Only a quarter think that this whole distraction, vanity, sort of fun fight on the White House lawn makes any sense while we are at war with gas prices surging. So you take it all together. And of course, the stories are related. We didn't know when we were preparing our broadcast tonight that we would get this merger news so late in the day Friday.

13:25But that merger news, as our guest Che pointed out, has to do with whether the government is being run in a fair way for your benefit as the citizen taxpayer, or whether it is in collusion with other rich, powerful entities that are designed to extract value from both the government, tax dollars, and our country at your detriment. That's not a left or right point. It might be, I guess, vaguely about fairness or populism. But that's a lot of what's happening, even as Donald Trump insists that this period of his presidency should focus on promoting himself and his name on the buildings and his distraction.

14:03Reality show gambits when Americans are increasingly fed up. I want to bring back Che and our friend Juanita Tolliver. We're going to get into this when we return in just 90 seconds.

14:15Juanita Tolliver:This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals. including equalizers uh-huh balls yep headers every goal is worth more on fan so let there be goals new customers get 350 in bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars for seven days 21 plus and present in select states first online real money wager only minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days five dollar first deposit required bonus issue does non-withdrawable bonus bets which expires seven days after receipt restrictions apply see full terms at fanduel.com sportsbook gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET Monday.com AI agents took over my work.

14:48And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind now. I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. For me, being a part of this place has always been about the people, not about the politics.

15:06Juanita Tolliver:From the field to the studio, Jacob is finding the heart of the story. Connect with Jacob Soborov. Premieres tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern on MSNOW. busy friday night in washington beyond i'm back with jay and juanita uh juanita your views i just ran through a lot but but what's on your mind here tonight like ari i i feel like we're in an episode of the simpsons and we know they predicted a lot of moments they predicted a trump presidency including the tacky escalator did they predict a cage match ari at the white house i need somebody to go back through the Simpson archives because this all feels absolutely absurd.

15:45Juanita Tolliver:It feels absurd to see this happening. It feels absurd for the timing of it happening. But we know Trump loves to use taxpayer dollars to throw himself a birthday party, just like he did last year with the military parade, which very few people attended. I'm looking at this UFC event, though, and all I see is dollar signs are not just the corporate sponsors you mentioned in Trump's stakes at UFC or the fact that I believe one of the crypto funds that is sponsoring this event has ties to one of Trump's sons as an advisor as well. But I'm also thinking about the taxpayer dollars wrapped up in this.

16:20Juanita Tolliver:AP reported at least$60 million from taxpayer funds are going to this and coordination across seven federal agencies to pull this off, all the way from the FAA to the Secret Service. And this is at a moment when Donald Trump has repeatedly said, I don't care about taxpayers' wallets when I make decisions. I don't care about the issues they're facing. And so I'm looking at this and the other number you highlighted, this is deeply unpopular. 51 % unapproval, I think, was on the screen earlier. No one wants this. People do not want this. They certainly don't want their taxpayer dollars used for it.

16:58Juanita Tolliver:And so I'm curious to see how this is yet another thing, another stunt that Trump uses to weigh down Republicans as we head into November. And that really goes to what you see on the screen. People don't want this. People are recoiling against the economy. That's the reality versus the reality show, which Che mentioned in terms of the White House obsession about trying to buy, cajole, or pressure coverage that's different than discussing these problems. And so Che, Take a listen to how some of it, though, is playing on Fox. Trey, what do you say to our viewers who love Donald Trump and they support him?

17:37Juanita Tolliver:They trust him. They believe he's talking to the right people and making the right moves. But they're tired of this and they see that the midterms are around the corner. They want our economy to get back on track and our gas prices to drop. You know, there's a kind of a little hint of awareness there, Trey. And then the Republican senators who are leaving the body are stronger. And then the blind quotes from the less courageous anonymous folks are even stronger, including ending the week with the hunt for the leaker who dared say that the Trump folks were rattled by Epstein. What do you see in all of this after another tough week for them?

18:19Yeah, it's been a tough week, and I think they know it's going to get tougher. And I thought that that question was rather strange where, you know, the Fox the Fox morning people were saying, hey, you know, what do you say to people who love Trump and really believe in him, but kind of don't believe in him anymore? Kind of think that maybe this isn't so this isn't so right and kind of think that, like, you know, the gas prices are are high and the food prices are high. What do you say to them? You know, it was almost like an acknowledgement that things are not going well. And as much as Trump wants to say that things are going great, they simply are not.

18:58And, you know, the cage match is a big part of this. You know, this is America's 250th birthday. And if you just compare the feeling around the bicentennial and the centennial, if you go back historically and just look at it, you know, the idea of doing a cage match, you know, it didn't come out of The Simpsons, but it does come out of the movie Idiocracy, where something like that actually does occur. And that's, you know, when people see that, even if you like Trump, you've got to think something's off and something's really wrong in the way that America is celebrating its 250th birthday. Juanita?

19:34Juanita Tolliver:I also want to highlight this isn't about America 250, even though the posters outside the cage match do say Freedom 250. This is on Trump's birthday. This is a gift to himself. And I'm thinking about that in terms of whatever gains come from the UFC where he owns stocks. I'm thinking about whatever games go to Paramount Plus, which I believe is live streaming this event. Like, I think that that's what it comes down to. But when you talk about things being explicitly wrong, there's only so much you can butt up against reality. And that's what I think that Fox host was getting to the fact that people can't put food on their table.

20:12Juanita Tolliver:They can't pay their rent. They are struggling to find jobs as layoffs continue. you. There's no way, there's no message that you can counteract the reality and the struggle that people are feeling. And I saw some coverage on MSNOW earlier this week where three-time Trump voters were like, we know he doesn't care about us. We know now. And so they're feeling the consequences of a Trump administration. They're feeling the reality that some of this could have been avoided. Gas prices didn't need to shoot up if Trump and Netanyahu didn't start a war with Iran. Grocery prices and inflation might be in a different place if Trump had started a tariff war that destabilized an entire global economy.

20:50Juanita Tolliver:And so they're seeing and feeling the impact of Trump in a way, sadly, that is truly harming them on a day-to-day basis, that a message on Fox News is not going to be able to penetrate. And it's something that I'm sure is going to be going with them into the polls as we see those enthusiasm gaps between Democratic and Republican voters where Republicans are at a deficit and independent voters are peeling away from Republican support. And that is a massive red flag for every Republican on the ballot, because we know Trump's not on the ballot, but he will absolutely continue to drag them down ahead of these midterms with every stunt that he pulls.

21:26I want it in, Che. Thank you. As we follow that news and the breaking news, it's Friday. We got a lot cooking, including by the end of the hour, thinking through what it means for New York to have such a liberal mayor. Together, we will tell a new story of our city. Eight and a half million New Yorkers will speak this new era into existence. It will be loud. It will be different. It will feel like the New York we love. A push for the future while we are watching a different future unfold today. protests against Elon Musk in New York. We have the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman on this massive news in the markets today.

22:11SpaceX launching, it's worth$2 trillion, which makes Trump on, I should say, Musk on paper, the first trillionaire. Krugman, on what that means for you, next.

22:26We're turning to the biggest story, maybe on Earth and in space tonight, Certainly a big story on Wall Street, but it also matters for our society and our politics. We have, for the first time, a trillionaire on Earth. Elon Musk is the world's first trillionaire on paper because his rocket company SpaceX launched on the stock market today. This is actually the largest IPO ever. And that's, of course, where they go from being a private company with all their investors to being a publicly traded stock. If you're curious how it went, they opened at a hefty valuation of about$150, rose about 20%. And the company, like other tech companies, to be fair, is valued way more for any expectations or hope about its future than its current holdings, revenue, and business model.

23:18As for the pricing, here's Jimmy Kimmel. with that kind of money, Elon could buy every NFL team, all of them, and he'd still have$773 billion left, which he could use to buy all 30 Major League Baseball teams, every NBA team, every Wendy's, every Target store, the Beatles' entire music catalog. He could buy Nike, Macy's, and every Hyundai Elantra ever produced and would still have$260 billion,

23:45Juanita Tolliver:$50 million left over. That's a type of storytelling. the obvious implication, the question, the premise is, is it too much for any one person to have, even if you think capitalism works great and people should be rewarded for the risk and labor that goes into these kind of projects. In other words, this isn't one of those obvious left-right capitalism-socialism things. This might just be a more baseline thing. Now, there are all kinds of ways people are reacting. There were protesters going after Musk in New York. There's questions about this era of ultra-affluence, which correlates with widening wealth inequality.

24:27From a moral perspective, this kind of wealth in a world where people could afford to eat might hit different. We have a stark wealth gap with great poverty even in rich nations, to say nothing, of the struggling nations. The top 1 % of American households now has a third of the wealth. And that's somewhere near what the entire bottom 90 % holds. And then think about this. In the United States, our highest tax bracket has been set at 37%. That's higher than if you make, say, less money. But think about how antiquated the actual amount of money is. The highest basic step is just over half a million dollars, technically exactly$640 ,000.

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25:18So while there are complications and we can get into the stock debate, think about a world where$640 ,000 used to make sense as a top number, and think about a world today where we're now minting trillionaires. Maybe they need a few more brackets above the ladder. Now, Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman, the author who wrote for many years for the New Times, has a lot of skepticism about the business here. Using some poetic license, he argues today that Musk has become a kind of human Ponzi scheme, that there are a lot of assumptions, and that it's the mastery of the financial shell games and how he leverages insider influence, especially with the Trump administration, that has basically ballooned him above what Krugman and frankly some others think is the actual underlining value.

26:05Musk gets all kinds of special treatment. Indeed, if you want to free up the amount of capital that he wants, you might need more than even just banks and investors. You might need to be a part of the automatic investing world. If you don't ever change your 401k, but you know you have one, you're probably in an index fund. And Musk has used his power to get new rules and loopholes so he can be added to those powerful index funds, which means you could end up investing in him whether you chose to or not. Thanks to the collusion enabled by the perception of the Trump administration has Musk's back, many, if not most Krugman rights of the small investors will be dragged into fueling this Musk juggernaut.

26:46Tough words, tough times. Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman, the author of that piece and his Paul Krugman sub stack, joins us now on a fitting day on Trillionaire Day. Welcome, Paul. Hi there. Yeah. Yeah, you make several critiques. I wonder if you could start with kind of what I've read to be your most conservative kind of math critique, which is you basically lay out why you don't think this thing is worth what it claims to be worth. Yeah, imagine that Musk had a spiritual awakening and went to a monastery somewhere. What's left? What is SpaceX? It's a medium-sized satellite launch company.

27:31That's an okay business, but it's not a huge business. Attached to a really bad AI model. Grok is by all accounts terrible. The only thing it has over the others is that it does non-consensual porn. And that in turn is bolted to what's left of Twitter, which has been turned into a right-wing Nazi-infested wasteland. That's the business. How is this thing being valued as worth almost as much as Microsoft, which is supplying the software that, like it or not, the world runs on? So this is crazy. The valuation, there's no conceivable way. It would be one thing if you thought that Musk had a real track record of actually pulling off technological miracles routinely.

28:18If you thought he was going to put a colony on Mars and data centers in space. But in fact, he has 15 years of promising the great things that were going to happen that have not happened. I started off my thing today by talking about riding the Hyperloop and the Tesla self-driving taxi and all of these things that don't actually exist. even though Trump, sorry, Musk promised that they would exist. So this is all, it really is a Ponzi scheme with the additional thing. That's a Ponzi scheme where a lot of the chumps didn't choose to be chumps. People are being forced effectively to buy into SpaceX because the indexes are including it, even though by the normal rules they should not.

29:00There's also a lot of institutions. I've been discovering that a lot of universities, you know, up my alley, have a lot. their university that have 10 or 15 percent of their endowment invested in spacex so this is a tremendous this is this is a rigged system sorry but you know this is genuine rigging clearly the the system has all been tilted into producing this absurd valuation that makes the world's first billionaire yeah and then there's that side the society and government side which is they set the highest tax rate at half a million. And if you go back far enough, that might have made some sense.

29:39Do you know, is there any economic or policy reason why we wouldn't have another ledge at five million and a hundred million and try to loop in the equities in that? Yeah, I mean, the best economic growth America ever had, the real boom time for the middle class was in the post-war years. You know, and under that socialist Dwight Eisenhower, the top bracket was, I think, 91%, right? So we did fine. We also used to have significant, really high inheritance taxes. We used to tax corporate profits at a much higher rate than we now do and with many fewer loopholes. So a lot of major corporations pay little or no taxes.

30:18So, yeah, and we did fine. All of our history says that, look, if you ask why do people believe that it's really important to have low taxes on the rich, You have to ask who pays for that opinion, right? It's the old line. It's difficult to get someone to understand something when the salary depends on not understanding it. So this whole, this is, the idea that low taxes on rich people is essential is the classic zombie idea. It should have been killed many times over by evidence, but it just keeps shambling along, eating people's brains because there's money behind it. Is there something in your view that is wrong, that is immoral with a certain level of singular wealth accrual, whether that's a billion or 10 billion, or now, today's the first day we'd ever say it, should a human have a trillion dollars while people starve?

31:10Well, that seems, I mean, it certainly seems immoral. You don't have to be a believer in perfect equality to think that there's something kind of obscene about this much wealth along with this much suffering. But I think there's a more immediate concern, which is what does it do to our democracy? I think Woodrow Wilson said, if there are men big enough to own the government, they will own the government. And by God, Elon Musk is now big enough to own the government. You might not like where I was going to go with this, but Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, in their own different ways, I've got a headline, they both talked about taking stakes in these tech companies.

31:49Do you see an overlap in their ideas? and do you think that is smart and do you think we should do it fast if there's going to be a bubble or something later why not get ahead of that by having the American people on the front end rather than being pressed for a bailout later okay I don't think it's smart partly because given where we are politically can you imagine seriously that we're going to pump public money into these companies and have that actually used in the public interest instead of being awake to prop up people who already have the influence. Um, I think, uh, and the, and, you know, if it's a bubble, do we want to buy in at the top with taxpayers money only to lose all that money when the bubble pops?

32:34So I, I don't think that's a smart idea. I think the right thing to do is to say, we should not, we should have, well, we, you know, we, we solved this problem once before, you know, we had a gilded age, although it wasn't, it wasn't as bad as where we are now, but we had a gilded age. The solution is taxes that don't allow this kind of wealth concentration, not saying, oh, this is an industry where I'm going to throw in a bunch of taxpayers' money and claim that it's going to be an equalizing force. Understood. You're very clear on this. You don't mince words. I think some people, a lot of people like that about you.

33:05And we thought you'd be the right insight on the day where we now have trillionaires among us. And as you said, if they can control our government, our democracy, I guess they'll try to. Professor, thank you and have a good weekend. Thank you. Appreciate it. We're going to finish a break and we will keep tracking that other billionaire oligarch story. The Trump approval, or at least clearing the way, for the merger that would give MAGA allies control not only of CBS, which they've been fighting about, but next, HBO and CNN.

33:42There are Friday night news dumps and then there's Friday night breaking news that could reshape political journalism as you know it. DOJ now approving the MAGA allies$110 billion Paramount merger with Warner Brothers that combines HBO Max, Paramount Plus and streaming. but more critical to Trump and our democracy, the TV news divisions of CBS and CNN, all led by Trump ally David Ellison. Now, there are still other ways the agreement could be challenged, but tonight's news, to be clear, is the biggest step forward in this merger. It clears the way. It says the federal government will not review and slow this down, let alone try to stop it.

34:23And that means what's happening at CBS could be happening at CNN very soon, according to many experts. So that's the update we wanted to give you on that. We do have a little break, but coming back, we will turn to a topic I mentioned that's pretty interesting, why Mayor Mamdani's liberalism is sparking a wider conversation about what Democrats can get done.

34:46Some things are etched into culture. When you hear the phrase, I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse, you know it. Even if you've never seen the entire Godfather, a movie now over 50 years old. When you hear money, power, respect, it echoes as an iconically familiar phrase in your mind, even if you might not recall when that banger dropped. It was 1998. When you hear, forget the frail, we gonna make it, you might immediately feel a gritty anthem that personifies real hip-hop, which other rappers and acts have mimicked really for many years now. And when millions of New Yorkers recently heard the new mayor proclaim that he's outside, well, the reference was understandable for its authentic New York mindset.

35:33Even if not, everybody was able to immediately place the both tough and I think funny boast from one of the most celebrated versus battles of our chaotic pandemic era. All of these are classic cultural moments from the locks.

36:16Juanita Tolliver:We gon' make it. We gon' make it. Jadakas, Styles P, and Sheik Looch have held rap down. They are, of course, The Locks. They have a new single called Never Change and a forthcoming documentary, Trinity. The story of The Locks, which debuts at the prestigious Tribeca Film Festival this year. Joining us now making their beat debut together, Styles P, Jadakas, and Sheik Looch. The Locks, welcome. Can I tell you something? That was an amazing introduction. I loved it. The intro was back. What's up, bro? That's how we feel. So starting with you, when you say New York hip hop and you see that's what you personify, how does that feel being able to look at it now?

36:52It's amazing. I mean, it feels like I'm getting old, you know what I mean? But like, it's so dope.

36:58Juanita Tolliver:Actually, though, just seeing all that. Yeah. What we accomplished. And Jada, making new music, you're doing podcasts, you're doing business. Where are you at now? What's your mindset right now? Just to keep going. I think we come from the families of strong mothers and fathers that they instill to keep working. Things might be going great. It might not be, but whatever they're going, keep, you know, stay the course. You know me, always keep working, man. Yeah. We're happy to be here. You know, it's a beautiful thing to have a career this long for the city to be, appreciate us, multiple businesses.

37:41Juanita Tolliver:And to still go and people still love the music and we still on tour, still doing shows, still rocking. So it's a beautiful thing. Absolutely. I mentioned the new track. Let's play that. This has never changed. Dreams turned to reality, then came to a halt. It was part of the business, though it wasn't our fault. Times got darker, we just got brighter. The love got faker, and we just got tighter.

38:15What's this song about to you And what does it mean to just get everyone back together You guys tour and you play all the time But to get back in the booth Brotherhood

38:23Juanita Tolliver:I don't think we ever look at it as get back together Like we're together too much We share the same studio We're in the same space all the time So it's more so just throwing the LOX hat back on and doing what we do. When you think about, you know, what the LOX means to New York City, and we have new leadership, and I'm not talking ideology. I mean, people can debate that left, right, and center. But, you know, there was an old saying, Jada, how are you going to let the Terminator win the election? Come on, pay attention. And we put something together which New Yorkers know about and the rest of our national audience might learn about, which is you have this new mayor, Mom Donnie.

39:04He's really excited a lot of people. He's also controversial to a lot of people. He was just in the White House going back and forth with the president. He's a big figure. And he loves the locks and you and brings you into his orbit. Let's show this from his actual inaugural address. New York, the real New York.

39:25Juanita Tolliver:I'm outside. I don't live in Miami. I don't live in Colorado. Come to my block and see me. This is this. I'm outside. And throughout it all, we will, in the words of Jason Terrence Phillips, better known as Jayda Kiss or Jayda Moi, be outside. Because this is the government of New York, by New York, and for New York.

40:03Juanita Tolliver:What does that mean to you? He's outside. I mean, I see that guy asking you that. Is he still outside? Being that he's so young, to show that his connection to the streets of knowing our music and knowing us and being, I think that helps. You know what I mean? Every, a lot of the politicians use, they use the culture the way they can use it. He actually has a little bit of knowledge. I actually, he came to my dressing room at the Woo Show. Yep, yep, yep. So he, you know, he put his boots on the ground and did his thing. I appreciate that. You can't, you know, the New York mayor shouting you out.

40:42Juanita Tolliver:No, that's fine. In New York, it's fine. How could it be anything but a plus? In a word or a sentence, Yonkers. Slept on. Hidden. The Sixth Borough. The slept on Sixth Borough. Mm. Oh, okay. Uh, New York hip hop. Please save it. Please save it. Grimey. Grimey. I'm a grimey. Please save it. Be thankful for it. I thought it was over when... I gotta go over when Big died. When he threw the chair at Poe. Mm. It was all good ones. I thought it was over when Big died and I threw the chair at Poe. All right, we got a... He got a sister. I knew we made it when. Oh, are we keeping it locks? I knew we made it when the Benjamins hit that hard.

41:38Juanita Tolliver:When it came out and it actually, because, you know, we weren't feeling it at first. The level that it went to, I said, yo, we might be almost there, bro. Yeah. I knew we made it when I was able to buy my mom's a house. Ooh. That's beautiful. How's it going? I knew we made it when Big said we was nice. The locks. legendary. There'll never be another like Kyle OX. Trinity. Respect. I appreciate you guys coming through. This is really exciting for me. Money, power, respect. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you. You know that.

42:26I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com. For me, being a part of this place has always been about the people, not about the politics.

42:37Juanita Tolliver:From the field to the studio, Jacob is finding the heart of the story. Connect with Jacob Soborov. Premieres tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern on MSNOW.

42:50All right, if you can't get enough of the beat, you can always connect with me at arimelber.com. Just put AriMelber.com into your browser. And tomorrow, you can also plan to catch the Beat weekend. We have highlights. We have special reports, key interviews, things you might have missed, even if you caught several shows this week. It's Saturday at 4 p.m. Eastern. Mark your calendar. Put it in your phone. I'll see you there. Or again, Monday at 6 p.m. Eastern. Either way, have a great weekend and keep it locked on MS Now. The weeknight is next.

43:21Juanita Tolliver:The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit Strayer.edu slash Jack Welch MBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Shev and as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia.

From the publisher

June 12, 2026; 6pm: Antitrust regulators at the Department of Justice have approved Paramount’s $110 billion deal to acquire Warner Bros. after an eight-month investigation. Plus, Melber reports on President Trump's bruising week. Political Strategist Chai Komanduri and Juanita Tolliver join.

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