DOJ Releases Ghislaine Maxwell Interviews

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0:37Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. It is a busy Friday, so welcome to The Beat. I'm Antonia Hilton in tonight for Ari Melber. We are tracking two breaking stories right now. Brand new material from the Epstein case and an FBI search on a former Trump official. More on that later. But we start with an explosive drop from the Justice Department just hours ago, releasing transcripts and audio from July interviews with Jeffrey Epstein's associate Ghislaine Maxwell, who is serving, of course, 20 years after being convicted of sex trafficking.

1:24Maxwell saying she never saw President Trump engaging in inappropriate behavior. Did you ever hear Mr. Epstein or anybody say that President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuses or with anybody in your world? Absolutely never. In any context. Did you ever observe President Trump receive a massage? Never. And she denies the existence of a client list. So, um, there's been a lot of conversations about whether Mr. Epstein maintained like a list of people, like a book of famous people that he knew. Like, it's called a Black Folk or a client list or a list. Did you know the existence of any such list?

2:24There is no list. We'll start with that. The genesis of that story I can actually trace for you from its absolute inception, if that is what you're interested in. She also claimed she never saw Epstein taking photos of people for blackmail. Did you ever, how about photographs? Did you ever observe Mr. Epstein or anybody around him take pictures of anybody in compromising positions with women or with anybody? No. Did you ever hear when you were president for conversations Mr. Epstein was having or others were having, anybody accuse him of blackmailing them or of trying to extort them because of something Mr.

3:18Epstein knew? And in a striking moment, Maxwell shares her opinion on whether or not Epstein died by suicide. So you think he did not die by suicide, given all the things we just talked about? I do not believe he died by suicide, no. Bombshell developments here. Maxwell's attorney issuing a statement, writing in part, quote, Maxwell is innocent and never should have been tried, much less convicted in this case. The materials newly released by the Department of Justice make this clear. Also thanking President Trump for his, quote, commitment to the truth and refusing to cave to the mob. Joining me now is Nancy Erica Smith, renowned civil rights attorney who has represented numerous victims of sexual harassment, and Emily Bazelon, legal writer with The New York Times Magazine.

4:08It's great to have you both. Nancy, I will start with you. As we were playing some of that sound, I could see out of the corner of my eye that you were already starting to react. So I just want to let you go. What is your initial impression of Maxwell and what we've learned from this so far? What we've learned is that Todd Blanche, Trump's personal attorney, one of many he's installed in our Department of Justice, had a cozy little conversation with somebody who's a convicted sex trafficker and asked her questions as if she's not a liar and a sociopath. Yes. And she attacked the victims. She did what Weinstein and Ailes and Combs and other incredible violators of women have done.

4:57She says, well, why did they come back? Well, these were young, very young girls. They have testified at length and they've answered that question. They have answered that question. It's outrageous that we're supposed to believe that Trump's lawyer has now gotten to the truth after a jury, after a trial, has found Ghislaine Maxwell guilty of sex trafficking beyond a reasonable doubt. It's outrageous that the DOJ would attack its own conviction, you know, and they are talking about subpoenaing the Clintons and Bill Barr. Let's have the victims testify in Congress. Let's have Maureen Comey, who prosecuted Maxwell and Epstein.

5:42She really knows the facts. I have no confidence that anything this DOJ is going to release is going to be truthful. Their job is to protect Trump, not the American people. They've made that clear over and over and over again. His personal lawyers in New Jersey, his personal lawyer has been found to be unqualified, and she's still the U.S. attorney in our state. Todd Blanche, his personal lawyer, Bondi, who protected him and campaigned for him and has close ties to him. We can't trust this DOJ. They represent Trump, not us. So this is just more whitewashing to cover up his incredible closeness to a sex trafficker.

6:22And we've talked about it on our air several many times now. But, I mean, Todd Blanche actually went on a podcast with Ghislaine Maxwell's personal attorney. That relationship goes back a while and is more than just sort of casual acquaintances. Emily, I want to play some sound for you. Of course, we're just talking about the victim blaming here. And some of the comments Ghislaine Maxwell made over the course of these interviews were really eyebrow raising. I want you to take a listen to one section in which she describes never seeing an unhappy masseuse. I saw him with lots of masseuses. I never saw a single masseuse ever look unhappy or not come back or whatever.

7:08So based on my observation, I don't think that if you are being raped, as now he's like, this prolific, I just can't imagine why you would. It's not what you observed at the time. Not what I observed at the time, no. Emily, what do you make of the comments Ghislaine Maxwell made there, you know, implying that all of these women must have enjoyed the job, they brought themselves back? I mean, we know because we have had victims come and describe this in painstaking detail, the way in which they were manipulated, harmed, abused. So I know I don't need to explain that to you, but what do you make of what we heard her say just there?

7:51I understand why it's in Ghislaine Maxwell's interest to minimize everything here, because she's been convicted of serious crimes in relation to all of these accusations. So if she makes it sound like nothing bad happened, then that helps her with her appeal. And surely she's hoping for some kind of pardon or some relief from President Trump. What I don't understand is why President Trump thinks the people who are upset about the very serious charges of sexual assault, this conspiracy here, right? That's what the Epstein case stands for, this conspiracy among elite people hurting the powerless.

8:29Why are they going to find it convincing to hear Ghislaine Maxwell, the single person who's actually in prison for these crimes, exonerate herself and then say that President Trump did nothing wrong? It just seems backwards that if this is what they're upset about, that she would have credibility to get President Trump off the hook, to get herself off the hook. That's the part of this that I just still every time we talk about this, I just don't understand how two plus two equals four here. Yeah, I mean, in parts of it, some of the remarks that she makes actually would be insulting. If you're one of the people who's been in this, very concerned about this case, tracking it on one of the podcasts for quite a long time.

9:12I mean, at one point she compares the spectacle around all of this to the Salem witch trial. Another comparison that I find very interesting, given the gendered aspects, of course, of that trial, the way in which women were discredited and labeled as hysterical and not to be believed through that. But take a listen to some of her remarks there. so that narrative that was created and then built upon and it just mushroomed into what basically this is like a salem witch trial people got and lost their minds for this thing another thing is that everyone puts us together like a monolith he literally had a separate life from me i literally had a separate life from him now did they say well of course they did i'm not That's not crazy, but he kept a lot to himself and he didn't like to share.

10:03He was not a sharer. Well, he's not with you. Mr. Epstein. Nancy, is this the Salem witch trials? It's the Salem witch trials for the victims. They're the ones who are being attacked. They're the ones who are being called liars by a convicted sex trafficker. I mean, there's so much evidence in this case. Who has a stable of masseuses that Donald Trump himself said are very young? Who has that? I mean, it's outrageous to attack the victims like this and take their voices away. We know how painful it is. They've told us how painful it is. And then the Trump administration, who's installed his private lawyer in the DOJ, releases this as if we're supposed to believe a sociopathic sex trafficker who's been moved to Club Fed, a beautiful federal prison, not for sex traffickers.

10:56The prison's own rules say she couldn't be in club fed. Why does she get moved? Because she's going to say stuff like lies like this. And we're supposed to believe it. It's outrageous. Emily, of course, a lot of the attention tonight is on Delane, her words, what it's like for people to listen to her in this extensive audio. But did anything about the way Todd Blanche conducted himself in these interviews interest or surprise you? So Blanche seems very amenable to the answers she's giving. He's not pressing her. She is saying what he wants to hear about President Trump. And then he's letting her talk in this way that's helpful to her case.

11:36This is not a skeptical lawyer kind of trying to test someone's credibility or really test anything. He came to get a story and he got that story. That's what this seems like. You agree with that? I feel I feel you want to say something as a lawyer. You know, this was outrageous. This was, you know what we want you to say. Nothing bad happened. It's it's blame the victims. And Donald Trump had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein, despite all the evidence that he did have a lot to do with Jeffrey Epstein. Do you have faith in any part of the sort of many tentacles of this process at this point? For example, Congressman Ro Khanna, Congressman Massey trying to give survivors the opportunity to have their voices heard on the Hill, trying to compel their colleagues to do something about this when they're all back in September.

12:25Does any part of this seem legitimate to you? No, none of this is legitimate to me. Nothing that comes out of this DOJ is going to be legitimate. We've already heard the leaks of them redacting Trump's name and cleaning it up, releasing this ridiculous transcript. It's so illegitimate, it's ridiculous. It assumes we're all stupid, and some of us are. Emily, do you think it would make a difference for people to see survivors come together, be in D.C., and describe their experiences in their own words? I mean, part of me almost feels bad when I talk about this because the onus on them to re-explain something they've explained so many times.

13:01Many of them have described talking to my team on our weekend show. I know Alicia Arden, one victim, spoke to Nicole Wallace at length about sort of the way this re-traumatizes them. But do you think at some point that kind of action is all that could get people to understand the gravity and the reality of this this entire case? I also hate to put that kind of burden on people who don't feel comfortable talking. If there are people who want to come forward, sometimes people find that healing. They are getting to tell their stories. That's a role they can play. They feel like they're helping other people who've experienced harm or preventing harm.

13:39And I fully support that. But asking people who don't want to be public to be public one more time to tell a very painful tale, that's a lot to ask. And I think we've heard abundantly from them. There is a long record for people to look at if they want to understand the victim's perspective here. Emily Bazelon, Nancy Erica Smith, thank you both so much for joining tonight and for keeping the survivors at the center of this story. Coming up, the day's other big breaking news. The FBI search and what some fear could be a major escalation of Trump's retribution campaign. But first, another side of the Epstein saga.

14:16The DOJ handing over files to congressional investigators. I'll talk to a member of the House Oversight Committee when we're back in just 90 seconds.

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15:14Price and coverage match limited by state law. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. Do you remember one way or the other whether President Trump submitted a letter for his 50th birthday?

15:53I do not remember. And the article that references the letter talks about a picture of a naked woman or something like that. Do you have any recollection of that? I do not. That was Galene Maxwell saying she does not recall that body birthday letter the Wall Street Journal reports Trump sent Epstein. This new audio coming on the same day Trump's DOJ sent the House Oversight Committee the first batch of documents in response to a subpoena for the full Epstein files. Joining me now is Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari of Arizona. She is a member of the House Oversight Committee investigating the Epstein case.

16:34Congresswoman, it is good to see you. What can you tell us about what's starting to come into the committee tonight and the volume of what you've received? Is it what you were promised? Thank you so much for having me on. Listening to the prior folks that you had on just made me sick to my stomach to kind of relive what the victims are going through. As you know, the Oversight Committee successfully was able to subpoena the full Epstein files. The deadline was a couple of days ago. But of course, with the usual trend of lack of transparency from this administration, today we received the first tranche of the materials.

17:15It was about 33 ,000 pages. I've been in touch with committee staff and committee leadership who made it clear that it was just one hour ago that they were able to download the entirety of the files. And now what's about to happen is our legal counsel and anyone on our committee who would like to can review the files in full. And I think this is incredibly important because I will speak for myself and that I don't trust this Department of Justice that has gone from Pam Bondi telling us she has the full files ready to be released on her desk several months ago to the president calling this entire thing a Democratic hoax to now the complete reluctance.

17:58And as you know, shutting down of Congress to avoid the inevitable, which is to release these files. So I intend personally to work with staff to review these files, but it is just the first tranche. And then we need to see what's in there, what has been redacted, what, you know, there are cases in the past with subpoenas like this where we've seen the Trump administration during the first term submit lots of empty pages. So there's going to be a lot to go through and Democrats on this committee intend to do so in as much detail as possible. Can I ask, what do you make of Maxwell's interview, the transcripts, the audio that we've received just hours ago today?

18:40You know, there are several interesting revelations. Whether or not they're credible, I think, is sort of up for question. But, you know, she says she does not believe Epstein committed suicide. Something that's been at the center of a lot of the conspiracy theorizing in this country that drove the push for all of this to happen in the first place. She describes basically saying that there was no blackmail operation. She downplayed Trump and Epstein's relationship. As you listened to her in whatever parts of this you've been able to go through, what were your impressions of her as a witness? Ghislaine Maxwell is not a credible witness.

19:17I mean, the entirety of this interview, the fact that Trump's former personal defense attorney, Todd Blanche, now an AG, is the one who went to interview Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted sex predator, a child trafficker, a literal convicted monster. Obviously, she wants a pardon. Obviously, she says nice things about the president who was in her social circles and friends with Epstein for decades. AIDS, none of this is giving me any reassurance whatsoever. I don't see it giving any American anywhere reassurance whatsoever. I mean, when you listen to even people like Joe Rogan saying, there's a reason that Ghislaine Maxwell is in prison, and it's because she trafficked kids.

20:06And what we need to know is who she trafficked them to. And that is what we need to get to the bottom of. We need justice for the victims, and we need to hold the perpetrators accountable. And at the end of the day, anything that comes out of Ghislaine Maxwell's mouth, it's imperative that Americans remember that this person is a monster. She's convicted of these crimes and she's looking out for herself. She wants the best outcome for herself at the end of the day, an easier sentence and to move on with her life. And we cannot let that happen. Earlier today, your colleague, Congressman Krishnamurti, said that he found the timing of all of this today to be pretty interesting.

20:43You have the search this morning of John Bolton's home on the day that lawmakers were expecting to receive all this. Did you find the timing from this administration to be suspect? The Trump administration is the most corrupt administration in American history. Everything that they do is suspect and everything that they do is a distraction from something else. every week we come into a week expecting a couple of insane things to happen. And then so many others happen because Donald Trump is the king of distraction. Why is why are there paramilitary forces on the streets of Washington, D.C., terrorizing people and destroying the economy for local small businesses?

21:25Why did we just give ICE one hundred and seventy billion dollars and now they're making decked out vehicles for themselves? The economy is not in a good place. Health care is being ripped away from 17 million Americans. And as you just noted, Donald Trump is again going after his political opponents. Ironically, this is somebody, John Bolton, who was on his team. But he's an authoritarian. This is a dictator. I'm the daughter of two immigrants who fled an authoritarian regime. And every single thing that this administration has been doing since January, from going after the press to going after the media to universities to political opponents, is authoritarian at its absolute worst.

22:07And so it's important to remember the grand scope of things that are happening, the corruption and the authoritarianism. And this case falls well within that. Congresswoman Ansari, thank you for joining tonight. I'm sure our team will be looking to you for more insight as you start to get your hands on some of the material that your team's just processing this evening. Thank you. Coming up, more of Ghislaine Maxwell's extraordinary flattery of Donald Trump right before she got moved to a more comfortable prison. But first, special guests on the FBI searches targeting a top Trump critic and J.D.

22:40Vance's revealing comments about the probe.

22:47I'm not a fan of John Bull. He's a real sort of a lowlife. I thought he was a very dumb person, but I used him well. Stupid people like a John Bolton. He's a stupid guy. Now to what some fear is a dramatic escalation in Donald Trump's long-promised retribution campaign, targeting his political opponents. This morning, the FBI searching the home and office of former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton. This was the scene outside Bolton's home in Bethesda, Maryland. The FBI arriving at the residence just before 7 a.m. They were there for about seven and a half hours. Compare that to the nine hours spent searching Trump's sprawling Mar-a-Lago property in 2022.

23:30The FBI also conducted a search at Bolton's office in Washington today. The Bureau says this is all part of a, quote, national security investigation in search of classified records. A judge had to sign off on these search warrants. We have not seen the warrants yet or the evidence gathered from Bolton's home or his office. A source close to Bolton, though, saying, quote, it's retribution, pure and simple. Bolton has been a frequent and vocal critic of Trump since 2020. I don't think he's fit for office. I don't think he has the competence to carry out the job. There really isn't any guiding principle that I was able to discern other than what's good for Donald Trump's reelection.

24:13What he was capable of was on a daily basis doing something more and more outrageous than he had done the day before, all to the same end of staying in power. I think when you challenge the Constitution itself the way Trump has done, that is un-American. Do you agree with Mark Milley that Trump is a fascist? You know, I don't think he's smart enough to have an ideology. In December, Bolton penned this op-ed bashing Kash Patel, saying that as FBI director, he would operate according to the secret police's comment to Joseph Stalin. Show me the man and I'll show you the crime. Patel named Bolton on his deep state list from his government gangsters book published in 2023, which Bolton was recently asked about earlier this month.

25:02You're obviously on his enemies list, at least Kash Patel's enemies list. Are you worried that they're going to come after you in some way? I mean, he's hinted at it before. Well, I think he's already come after me and several others in withdrawing the protection that we had from the Iranians for the attack on Qasem Soleimani. So I think, and I said in the new forward of the paperback edition of my book, I think it is a retribution presidency. And Trump this morning claiming he had no knowledge that this was all happening, despite being the nation's chief law enforcement officer. No, I don't know about it.

25:42I saw it on television this morning. I know nothing about it. I just saw it this morning. They did a raid. I don't want to know about it. It's not necessary. I could know about it. I could be the one starting it. I'm actually the chief law enforcement officer. But I feel that it's better this way. And joining me now is Miles Taylor, former Homeland Security official, who, of course, went public writing as anonymous, resisting Trump's agenda in the first term. Like John Bolton, Taylor is included in Kash Patel's book as a member of the deep state, what some have called a de facto enemies list. Also with us, Asha Rengappa, former FBI special agent.

26:21Miles, it's good to see you again. I want to start with you and I want to ask you point blank. Watching these scenes this morning, were you afraid for yourself at all? I wasn't afraid, but I expect it to happen. And that's the moment that we're in. I mean, you know, my wife and I woke up and, you know, I told her the news and I'd seen it and she said, it's happening. It's happening. And she didn't just mean the potential threat to us and our family. We know we are in the president's crosshairs. He's named us in executive order. He's launched a revenge investigation into us because we've spent years not backing down and criticizing him.

27:00What's happening that my wife was noting is that we really are crossing over the precipice into something that looks like authoritarianism. And that's a really hard thing for either someone like me. I won't presume Asha, but probably Asha, too. People who came up in the national security community. You're trained that over there is where authoritarianism happens, not here. And yet the president of the United States made very clear that this was one of his top enemies, John Bolton. He signaled that he wanted John Bolton, you know, looked into. He's already engaged in retribution against him. That's what he got.