DOJ Releases Two Hour Epstein Interview with Steve Bannon

17:12Melissa Murray:Well, look, I mean, people do have the right to freely worship, and I think that should be very much respected. I think it's important in this regard to remember that Don Lemon was—he didn't organize the protest. He covered the protest. He followed them in. Yes, he knew about it in advance. But a lot of times journalists know about events well in advance. So I think that, you know, he's trying to conflate a lot of different things here and make it seem like Don Lemon's purpose was to disrupt this worship service. Certainly the activists intended to. They said so quite openly. But for Don Lemon and Georgia Fort, the other journalist who was indicted, they were trying really just to cover this.

17:58Melissa Murray:And that's what they did.

18:01Steve Bannon:So this is a moment for journalism. What do you think that journalists should be doing right now to protect their livelihoods, protect the freedom of the press? Is there room here to maneuver or are we sliding and crossing the Rubicon?

18:17Melissa Murray:Well, I think what we've seen is a real escalation in Donald Trump's attacks on the press. You know, he started his career by denigrating the press, dehumanizing them, calling them garbage. Then he tried to label the press as traitors, as enemies of the people. Then they were subjected to baseless lawsuits. Then they threatened their core businesses by, like, the licenses of stations affiliated with the major networks. More recently, in January, they raided the home of a journalist for The Washington Post. That was unprecedented, the first time that's ever happened in a national security investigation.

18:55Melissa Murray:And now we have this instance where reporters are being arrested for covering a news event. That is unprecedented, too. I mean, there are times where journalists have been arrested for so-called trespassing. That's been done at the state or local level, not by the Department of Justice. And almost always, those cases fail. So what we're seeing is an extraordinary escalation in the administration's attacks on the press. What can we do? Well, first of all, we have to keep doing our jobs. We can't be intimidated by this. I think the intent here is to intimidate the press, to prevent them from doing their jobs.

19:32Melissa Murray:So we have to keep doing our jobs and certainly we have to defend ourselves vigorously. And I think the press overall needs to come together and support each other in that regard.

19:43Steve Bannon:All right, Marty Barron, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

19:46Melissa Murray:Thank you.

19:47Steve Bannon:A quick programming note tonight. Independent journalist Georgia Ford will be joining Rachel Maddow. She actually recorded the moment federal agents showed up at her door. She will join Rachel tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on MS Now. Later, how a Democrat stunned the political world this weekend, flipping a Trump district in Ruby Red, Texas. He will be live right here on The Beat. Also ahead, explosive revelations about presidential grift, the Trump family, and a half-billion-dollar crypto deal in the Mideast. Plus, pressure on Trump's immigration agenda, from new court losses to a broader backlash.

20:29Steve Bannon:That's all up next.

20:31Melissa Murray:Eyes out.

20:38Melissa Murray:We're not savage. We're not animals. We're not aliens. We are humans and we are Americans.

20:53Steve Bannon:Now to the growing pushback to Trump's immigration crackdown, from the courts to street protests to the wider culture. At the Grammys last night, many musicians were wearing these ice-out pins, and many more were speaking out. Take a listen.

21:10Melissa Murray:No one is illegal on stolen land. I'm up here as a granddaughter of an immigrant I wouldn't be here

21:22Ari Melber:I'm a product of bravery and I think those people deserve to be celebrated

21:27Melissa Murray:We're not savages, we're not animals we're not aliens we are humans and we are Americans

21:39Melissa Murray:Eyes out

21:51Steve Bannon:Saturday Night Live also landed some blows. Lampooning ice with Pete Davidson playing border czar Tom Homan. Take a look.

22:01Melissa Murray:Now, who could tell me why we're here in Minneapolis? Pass. No, can't pass. Come on, guys. What are we doing in Minneapolis? This could be wrong, but Army? Close. That's close. We're here to detain and deport illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. That is literally the first I'm hearing of that.

22:28Steve Bannon:Meanwhile, the New York Times is reporting that federal courts are undercutting Trump's mass deportation program. Quote, In case after case, federal judges have found that the Trump administration has been ignoring longstanding legal interpretations that mandate the release of many people who are taken into immigration custody if they post a bond. Also today, five-year-old Liam Ramos and his father Adrian are back home in Minnesota, this after a federal judge ordered their release from ICE custody. Liam Ramos' detention sparked national outrage after images of the preschoolers surrounded by officers went viral.

23:08Steve Bannon:In the order, the judge blasted the Trump administration for its, quote, ill-conceived and incompetently implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas, apparently even if it requires traumatizing children. Now, a new flashpoint is emerging. DHS is apparently scouting dozens of warehouses with plans to retrofit them into ICE detention centers. It's all sparking new protests, according to Axios reporting. Joining me now to talk about all of this is Molly Jungfast, contributing writer for The New York Times, MSNOW political analyst and host of the Fast Politics podcast. Molly, what was your reaction to what you saw on the Grammys?

23:53Steve Bannon:because it was such a contrast to the Golden Globes where people were much more closed-lipped.

23:58Ari Melber:Yeah, well, there have been two murders of American citizens since then. And I think, look, we're talking about guardrails here. That's what we're really talking about. And public outrage may be the last guardrail that is protecting Americans from whatever this administration wants to do. And so in a world where the mainstream media is so small, having celebrities out there raising awareness might be the difference between keeping our democracy and not.

24:28Steve Bannon:So the Trump administration seemed to have bent a little bit to that public pressure. So over the weekend, it was announced that there would be an investigation into Alex Preddy's death. I'm not exactly clear who's going to be doing that investigation, but it seemed like they were ready to make a pivot. Do you think that pivot's held?

24:46Ari Melber:Well, I think what's important is like if you think about Liam, right, the little boy in the blue hat. And the backpack. And the backpack. That kid, there are many other kids that were not wearing hats. You know, in that article about Liam in The Times, it talks about the person from the school, the principal from the school says, in fact, there are a bunch of other kids from that school that are in detention. So we know this is the kid we know about. And I think it's really important to realize, Like the reason that kid got released was because of the public outcry. And the reason that any of this stops is going to be because of public outcry.

25:26Ari Melber:And the reason that it's going to keep going is because people are asleep or decide the politics is too upsetting and they don't want to focus on it. And so I think that the more we have celebrities with ice out pins and the more we have them talking about the stakes of what's happening, the better it is. And again, there's a reason that Steve Bannon and Breitbart had this thing that, you know, they just desperately wanted to get in the culture because they felt that politics was downstream of culture. That's because the culture does in some ways dictate where the country goes. Let's talk about the culture.

26:01Steve Bannon:Let's play another bit from SNL. This one is mocking the idea that Tom Homan, Borders Are, is actually a softer side of ice, if you will. Let's roll that.

26:12Melissa Murray:Look, I'm Tom Homan, okay? I am. I'm the separating families at the border guy. I'm the on film taking a$50 ,000 bribe guy, and y 'all are making me look like the upstanding reasonable adult in the room. That's crazy!

26:33Steve Bannon:That is the question, Molly. Is Tom Homan the vibe shift the administration needs right now?

26:39Ari Melber:Well, and, you know, he tried. It's a really good question. And I think it's really important to realize, like, this administration has really scary stuff planned. Yeah. Because they're going to buy warehouses where they're going to put people in them.

26:53Steve Bannon:Tom Holman has done some really scary stuff, too.

26:56Ari Melber:Like the family separation policy was inhuman. It was inhuman. And also Tom Holman took$50 ,000 in a comma ban. Allegedly. Allegedly. Right. Which was an investigation on something else. He just got swept into it, which is incredible. And no, look, I think that this administration has a lot of really scary plans. And I think that the more people hear about them, the more they're going to be like, this is not the country. You know, it's 2025 in America, 2026, sorry, in America. And this is just not how any of this is supposed to work.

27:30Steve Bannon:So to the scarier stuff that may be coming down the pike, The Washington Post is reporting that despite the release of Liam Ramos, data shows ICE is detaining more kids. Quote, immigration authorities are increasingly ensnaring the youngest and most vulnerable lives in President Donald Trump's effort to deport massive numbers of undocumented immigrants. Could this be the flashpoint if we just see scads of children being rounded up?

27:53Ari Melber:Right. And I think what's important here is there are a lot of kids in detention we don't know about. There's a lot we don't know about. And part of that is because there isn't the same kind of reporting there was in 2016. We don't have the fulsome mainstream media that we used to. And so we're not getting all the information that we can. All right. That was super uplifting. Yeah, sorry. But it's true. I mean, there's a reason that oligarchs and authoritarians don't like mainstream media. It's because they don't want that reporting out there. All right.

28:22Steve Bannon:Molly Jungfast, thank you so much for weighing in on all of this. Still ahead, Trump's latest autocratic push to remake Washington, D.C. in his gilded image. But first, new lessons from a Democrat that pulled off an upset victory in deep red Texas. He joins me live next.

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29:18Melissa Murray:And so do the prices.

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30:18Melissa Murray:This isn't red versus blue. This is right versus wrong. This is about school, public school funding. This is about helping working folks. This is about lowering costs. This is about everyday working folks.

30:34Steve Bannon:That was Texas State Senator-elect Taylor Rummett, a Democrat who just won a special election in deep red Tarrant County. That's in the Fort Worth suburbs. His 14-point margin of victory is especially stunning since it was in a district that Donald Trump won by 17 points in 2024. Donald Trump tried to distance himself from the race, but he is on record as publicly endorsing the Republican challenger. Take a listen, though.

31:04Melissa Murray:Somebody ran where?

31:06Ari Melber:In Texas. A special election for legislators. The ninth state Senate seat.

31:09Melissa Murray:I'm not involved in that. That's a local Texas race. You mean I won by 17? Okay. And this person lost? And Republican. Things like that happen. I mean, I know there's a race going there. And it's too bad.

31:26Steve Bannon:Joining me now is the winner of that local Texas race, State Senator-elect Taylor Rummett. He is also an Air Force veteran and a former union president. Welcome. You are the man of the hour. But well, what is your advice to other Democrats who are running in red districts or swing districts, since you apparently have the touch here?

31:49Melissa Murray:Well, my advice doesn't just apply to Democrats. Anyone trying to serve and get elected, you got to do the work. You got to go and meet the folks where they're at, have the conversations by first listening and then learning the issues because that's what a true leader should do.

32:08Steve Bannon:Well, Republican Governor Ron DeSantis thinks that this is a great strategy. He had this to say about your win. Quote, a swing of this magnitude is not something that can be dismissed. Republicans should be clear eyed about the political environment heading into the midterms. Is Governor DeSantis right? Is your election a harbinger of things to come for the Republicans in the midterms, especially if the Democrats take your advice to get on the ground and figure out what the people really want and need?

32:37Melissa Murray:That's dependent on who's willing to do the work and who's willing to keep working folks at the forefront of their campaign. Really, we have people here, when I was knocking doors and having conversations with voters, there is a need for lowering costs. People are struggling out here. Having two or three jobs just to make ends meet, it's not going to work. People are upset, and people are even choosing between their medical treatment and rent and food. And then we also have public schools right here in this great state suffering. The public schools need help, and we got a voucher scam that's being implemented, and it's going to be bad.

33:17Melissa Murray:Anytime public dollars go to private institutions, it's not good.

33:22Steve Bannon:So all of that is not good. What's also not good in the great state of Texas is the Republican effort at the president's insistence to launch an unorthodox mid-cycle redistricting effort that's aimed at consolidating Republican power in the state, but also in the House of Representatives. Those are structural impediments that are going to make it hard for Texas Democrats going forward. Is your on-the-ground approach something that can overcome even those kinds of structural distortions?

33:50Melissa Murray:I think only time will tell about that. I think so. What I really think is they should focus on, again, property taxes, lowering the cost of things. That right there is going to be the best thing they could do to actually help folks and win elections because people out here are struggling.

34:08Steve Bannon:One person who is not struggling in this season was your opponent who outspent you, according to Axios, 10 to 1. What lessons can you offer other Democrats who are facing GOP candidates with substantial financial advantages and deep pockets?

34:24Melissa Murray:Well, first thing I would say is, yes, I got spent roughly 10 to 1. I got way outspent. But the trust you can build by doing the work, that is priceless. The trust in the community. And so you can go against any amount of money. Money doesn't replace relationships. It cannot buy elections. This was proof of that.

34:50Steve Bannon:Is this just like going out and just meeting people, like going door to door? I mean, or did you have longstanding ties as a union organizer that kind of laid the groundwork for you? I mean, can anyone do this or did you already have a significant advantage because of your prior work?

35:05Melissa Murray:Well, that's a great question. I would say that one thing I would like to point out is my team was based right here, mostly in the Senate district, if not in Tarrant County. I think who knows the place best than the people who live, work and try and thrive here. So that to me was a point that I wanted to make sure we talked about because, you know, having that local connection, nothing can replace that. I mean, again, you can spend a lot of money on DC consultants and all this stuff. But of course, also to the other point, like you mentioned, yes, the unions were great partners. And I would say if anyone wants to get elected, focus on the unions, unions, because they have the heartbeat of working folks.

35:46Melissa Murray:And I want to make sure that that's who we represent, because at the end of the day, that's what I swore to serve and advocate for is working folks right here.

35:57Steve Bannon:All right. Senator-elect Taylor Rummett, thanks so much for joining us and congratulations.

36:01Melissa Murray:Thank you so much. Bye.

36:04Steve Bannon:Up next, shocking new details about the death of the Trump grift. That's coming after this.

36:19Steve Bannon:Tonight, there are brand new revelations that raise serious questions about the depth of Donald Trump's second-term grift. The Wall Street Journal reports that just four days before Trump's second inauguration, representatives of an Abu Dhabi royal, whom the journal refers to as, quote, spy chic, secretly bought a massive 49 % stake in the Trump family's crypto company. The sale reportedly involved an upfront payment of half of the purchase price, steering almost$200 million to Trump family entities. Some of that money is, according to the journal, also flowing to entities affiliated with the family of Steve Witkoff, a co-founder of Trump's crypto company who, just weeks earlier, was named Special Envoy to the Middle East.

37:07Steve Bannon:Months later, the administration agreed to give the UAE access to half a million of the most advanced AI chips each year. The crypto company says that neither Trump nor Wyckoff were involved in the deal. The journal describes all of this as unprecedented. But Trump officials say that this is business as usual. Take a listen.

37:31Melissa Murray:There's nothing unprecedented about the Trump organization going out and trying to make investments. Ty Cobb, who served as President Trump's lawyer during the first administration, said, quote, My advice as an ethics lawyer would have been clear. You don't do business deals with the families of the leaders of foreign countries. It taints American foreign policy. How do you respond to Mr. Cobb? I don't have a response to that guy.

37:58Steve Bannon:Meanwhile, Democrats are sounding the alarm.

38:27Melissa Murray:criminal conduct.

38:30Steve Bannon:Joining me now is Leah Lippman, a law professor at the University of Michigan. She also happens to be my co-host on the Strict Scrutiny podcast. Leah, Attorney, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche says that there's nothing unprecedented about this. What's your take?

38:49Ari Melber:President Jimmy Carter would like a word. President Carter put his peanut farm in a blind trust in order to avoid any appearance of impropriety while he was president. And it was literally peanuts. Exactly. Literally peanuts. Peanuts in comparison to the hundreds of millions of dollars that immediately went to the Trump family crypto company after, you know, this official, this foreign official who's associated with the national security apparatus of a foreign government, sends all of this money to the Trump family and then receives, you know, the country in exchange, these high-value AI chips.

39:24Ari Melber:It's astonishing. So it's unprecedented. You know, there's no other way of describing it. All right.

39:31Steve Bannon:So the Washington Post had this headline that was written a few days after this previously unreported deal came to light. It reads, quote, Trump promotes meme coin, raising ethics issues as value soars. Again, there have been so many efforts in the second administration to check the administration's actions on immigration, and government spending. But there's been very little attention and certainly very little litigation with regard to these ethical questions. Is there anything that can be done through the courts? And if there is, why aren't we seeing more of it right now?

40:05Ari Melber:I think it's difficult to address this through litigation because usually the source of public corruption is handled by federal prosecutors. But of course, the Trump administration has largely demolished the public corruption units and the foreign corruption units within the Department of Justice. And that's no accident. Of course, this greases the wheels for them to engage in more deal-making. So I think they have really undermined the enforcement mechanisms that are available for addressing this kind of public corruption. And that has just freed them to engage in more of these transactions. And I think at this point, it starts to look so normal.

40:40Ari Melber:I mean, we are just accustomed to seeing these stories of President Trump pardon someone who also purchased a stake in the Trump family crypto company. You know, these stories are just relentless. And I think they are using this by doing it out in the open to normalize the conduct and then say, of course, there's nothing to see here. Like, we admit it.

41:01Steve Bannon:Well, there are some people who are pushing back. And weirdly, it's actually coming from within the GOP. Take a listen to former Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene weighing in on this.

41:13Ari Melber:MAGA is, I think people are realizing it was all a lie. It was a big lie for the people.

41:20Steve Bannon:What MAGA is really serving in this administration, who they're serving is their big donors. So they're serving their big donors. And what other ways have we seen the big donors getting served at the expense of the populist message that actually fueled his White House run in 2024?

41:40Ari Melber:I mean, it would be impossible to list all of the ways. Think about some of the sweetheart deals that corporations have gotten. You know, the Federal Trade Commission settled with Amazon. for an amount that, you know, was substantially less than it might otherwise in the allegations that Amazon was basically surreptitiously enrolling some people in a program. And of course, Jeff Bezos, you know, is behind partially the big Melania documentary. And so you have people forking over money to the Trump administration and getting these sweetheart deals from the government in exchange. And that's just one example.

42:13Ari Melber:You know, Elon Musk's company have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in government contracts. And of course, he poured in a lot of money for the cause of electing Donald Trump. And his company is another of the companies that settled with Donald Trump over frivolous litigation. So there, too, that looks like pay to play.

42:30Steve Bannon:Well, can we talk about the documentary? When you mentioned that, it really hit a nerve with me. Did you see it this weekend? You know, I didn't. So critics are not particularly excited about it, but it is reportedly earning Mrs. Trump millions from Amazon. Is this part of this broader pattern, like where the family as well as the people around them are also perhaps benefiting from the association with the president?

42:58Ari Melber:Absolutely. I mean, you know, the Trump family is certainly benefiting. You know, here you have Melania. You know, it was Eric Trump that supposedly secured this deal that actually finalized the investment of the UAE foreign official, you know, in the Trump family crypto company. So it's a very cozy network of people. And this was the way they ran things in the first Trump administration as well, with his family maintaining stakes in the hotels and restaurant chains. Again, that corruption scheme just looks like child play compared to what they are doing now. All right.

43:29Steve Bannon:Leah Lippman, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I will see you on the podcast. The rest of you, we will be right back.

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44:36Steve Bannon:Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kids' legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.

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44:57Steve Bannon:We conclude tonight with an important update on Donald Trump's edifice complex. The president is apparently pushing plans to build a 250-foot independence arch, despite objections from architectural experts. Those experts warn that a monument of that size would dwarf the White House and the Lincoln Memorial. All of this, of course, follows Trump's demolition of the White House's East Wing for his$400 million ballroom, as well as his plans to renovate the Kennedy Center, to which he recently attached his own name. All of this, just more examples of bulldozing history to promote the Trump agenda himself.

45:41Steve Bannon:That does it for me. The weeknight is up next.

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