DOJ Vet Who Prosecuted Trump Testifies

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0:43Available 4x4 capability helps you drive safely and confidently when weather shifts or plans change. The laughter, high fives, and shared wins become the memories you cherish. In the 2026 Jeep Grand Cherokee L, Jeep and the Jeep Gorilla registered trademarks of FCA US LLC. Welcome to The Beat. We have a lot coming up tonight, including more from the bombshell reporting in that Vanity Fair report, the top Trump White House official. Savaging at times him, his personality, Elon Musk, other people in the administration, J.D. Vance. That continues to echo and ricochet for the administration. If you happen to be watching the news last night or today, you've probably heard a bit about it.

1:22So we have more on that bombshell coming up. But our top story right now is a name you might remember, Jack Smith. He was the first federal prosecutor to ever indict a president. He has prosecuted people in both parties, including Democrat John Edwards. He did that, as we all remember. He made a type of precedent in history. The Supreme Court ultimately stopped that prosecution. And he's back in the news because he was on Capitol Hill, as you see today, speaking for one of the first times about this. I'll say more about the rare times Mr. Smith has spoken to speak at all. But this was a formal legal setting as he gave hours of secret closed door testimony to the House Judiciary Committee.

2:03He is still going at this hour. We have some readouts of what he said, although it is not a public hearing. It's not like the big hearings where we have the video. But we have heard that he said the probe that they did and the prosecution they pursued had developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that then-President Trump, on his way out of office, having lost in 2020, engaged in criminal schemes to try to overturn that loss, to steal the election. He said the basis for those charges rests with Trump and his actions, not with the DOJ that ultimately found what he calls that evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

2:43He said he'd do it all again, regardless of whether the president was a Republican or a Democrat. This private testimony came about because Republican lawmakers wanted to do it this way. And that's actually interesting because, as we all know from following politics, when there is politics involved, as there often is in Congress, the folks who want something public usually think it will help them. Let the world see. And the folks who want something secret or private usually have the opposite view. Better to deal with it however they need to. There's all sorts of reasons people testify in government, but not lose control of a public setting.

3:18And so that hangs over this. And I want to be clear with you. We have seen both examples. This is perfectly lawful. The Congress can subpoena individuals, and especially in the national security context, they often deem for substantive reasons to make it private. It's not automatically good or bad one way or the other. But in this instance, they've used their lawful powers to basically try to talk to Jack Smith while hiding what he has to say today, at least from video. And House Democrats have a problem with that. It is absolutely absurd that the chairman is not having this testimony in public.

3:56This president, these Republicans want to hide from the American people the results of this investigation. Chairman Jordan made an excellent decision in not allowing Jack Smith to testify publicly because had he done so, it would have been absolutely devastating to the president and all the president's men. Now, that's the Democrats view. We have covered what, as he put there in a Nixon reference, the president and all his men tried to do, in this case, men and women. They started with those lawsuits and the elector plots, which are green in our tabulation because that while they were trying to overturn the results, they were crimes.

4:33But then as they went on over the calendar and hatched new plots later as they became more desperate, we know what they did were crimes because they have been tried and convicted. Many of the other individuals involved, the president, of course, never stood trial. He later freed every last person convicted of those red arrow plots and those crimes. So Smith is the first federal prosecutor to do this. And he ultimately did it twice because he said he had evidence of Trump committing crimes in two different arenas, the classified documents, as well as this effort to overturn the election. Now, Smith rarely speaks in public.

5:08I want to say a bit more about that because we have seen a lot of people in these jobs and people do them different ways. And Smith could have by now done a lot more press. He certainly could have done TV interviews. We've all asked. but he hasn't. Indeed, one of the only times he's publicly spoken about this in a setting you might call an interview or an exchange was with DOJ vet Andrew Weissman. They made some news at that time. We covered that, although Smith was extremely careful, but he didn't go do the big other television opportunities or some national speaking tour, et cetera, et cetera.

5:40And he's speaking today, of course, under request. The man who conducted that last discussion, Andrew Weissman, joins me in a moment. All of this comes amid the Vanity Fair interview with Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles, that has really rocked the Trump White House. She discusses exactly the issue of going after people who prosecuted or investigated Donald Trump. I mean, I guess he would say persecuted. But that revenge issue is a problem if you admit that that's your goal. That's what's called illegal selective prosecution. And in the bombshell interview, which of course she touched on many big topics, given the news tonight, I want to remind you, She said, I don't think Trump wakes up thinking about retribution, but when there's an opportunity, he'll go for it.

6:23And as for the case against New York Attorney General James, she said that might be the one retribution. That alone could doom that case. She also, in this interview where she was, well, a series of interviews really, but came all out in one article, she voiced her skepticism of one of the most extreme pro-violence anti-police acts by any president in history, Donald Trump pardoning all of the January 6th criminals, including those who savagely attacked police and who were convicted of sedition. In the new interview, she says she was on board with the people that were happenstancers or didn't do anything violent.

6:59And we certainly know what everybody did because the FBI has done such an incredible job. That is basically her breaking with what he did, which was pardon all the violent people. Reuters reports Trump DOJ is going further. They want to go after the people who held those violent criminals accountable. That's according to some pardon defendants. And so what we have here is, years later, a bit more of how opposite and through the looking glass everything is. J.D. Vance, Susie Wiles now recently, a heck of a lot of other people around Trump said to pardon the violence seditionists would be too far, even in their magnified world.

7:43But he did it. And so we're coming up on an anniversary here in January where everyone has to look back and remember that's how he started this presidency. And when he did it day one, a lot of people on the right and the business community sort of went along with it, put it to the side. But as his popularity wanes, as Jack Smith continues to stand up and others do to these revenge prosecutions, that may continue to be one of the greatest scandals right in the wide open daylight of this presidency. It is one that we have to live with as a country because the pardon power is not very reviewable and certainly not reversible.

8:18And so while Smith continues to testify behind closed doors at this hour, we bring in a special guest, Andrew Weissman, who, as I mentioned, interviewed him and was FBI general counsel and a Mueller prosecutor. Your view on what matters about Jack Smith today testifying. Well, I think the thing that matters is the fact that it's not public. That is something that the Republicans insisted on. Jack Smith wrote a letter saying that he would like to testify publicly. Now, the public can decide whether they believe him or they disbelieve him or whether he showed good or bad judge. if he testifies publicly.

8:58But you really have to ask yourself, and I ask myself, why isn't it public? What is it that people are afraid of in not letting the public see him answer those questions? And to me, that is, you know, it tells you everything about what's going on, that if this was really an effort to, if the Republicans say it's an effort to show that he was vindictive and that he did this in a way that was unjustified and he was the one it weaponized, then put it out there publicly for people to judge that. And I think the fact that they're not doing it is I think that they're afraid. I really do. I think that there's only one reason that you would do that is that you're afraid of the public actually seeing him and saying, You know what?

9:51I think he has a point. Here was Smith's lawyer today.

9:58Jack is showing tremendous courage in light of the remarkable and unprecedented retribution campaign against him by this administration and this White House. Let's be clear. Jack Smith, a career prosecutor, conducted this investigation based on the facts and based on the law and nothing more. Andrew. Well, first, people know I've known Lanny Brewer since law school. So that's many, many, many years ago. And he is a leading defense lawyer. He was a prosecutor. He was actually head of the criminal division. So Jack is very well represented. But you really do have to ask yourself here, as you said, Ari, that this is sort of topsy-turvy.

10:55You know, this is the kind of thing that, you know, where's the beef? What is it that you were saying he did that's so wrong? Do you have evidence that he was, that Donald Trump was improperly charged? I mean, is the Mar-a-Lago case a witch hunt? I mean, I think, you know, everybody who looks at this in a dispassionate way sees overwhelming evidence. And the January 6th case, you know, never got to trial, but there obviously was substantial evidence of that. And you know what? The members of Congress lived through it. But they are the ones who actually know firsthand a lot of the information in terms of the results of it.

11:38And so this is really one where it's to me, this is all a very sad reflection on Congress and the state of our union. And we're now approaching a year of this second term. So we have some of the record of who Trump put in. The revenge cases aren't working. They've failed now three times to go after James and the new bombshell reports. And we have more on that tonight. Out of A &F, the number one aide in the White House admitting, yeah, that one's probably fake, probably made a probably unlawful selective prosecution. Of course, the Comey of this goes back and forth, and you had a front row seat to all that.

12:19And then you've got other charges against the mayor of Newark, who was dropped. Pam Bondi said, I got an Epstein client list. No, I don't. There was no blackmail. Maybe there's open probes. The number two at the FBI built a media career clamoring for Epstein transparency, which they then fought to the end. And now the deadline is this Friday. and you're a skilled Washington veteran enough to know a bit about coincidences, Andrew. I'll ask you, is it a coincidence that with Bongino, FBI number two, having failed on his own many vows to fix the Epstein problem in government, we learned tonight, Wednesday, FBI's number two tells colleagues he's moving on.

13:01FBI Deputy Director Bongino wants to go back to his show and he will depart after what Bloomberg, very nonpartisan sort of financial ally, calls a very rocky tenure at a minimum. Friday's the Epstein deadline. What do you see there? And how does that compare with sort of the Smith record and the other past records of how hard it is to do these jobs compared to people who I guess can't quite finish out a year? Well, first of the retribution campaign, there's no question that in court it is failing. you have grand jurors repeatedly not voting to indict. That doesn't happen in a normal world. Jack Smith reportedly a similar point today saying, you know, his cases, the grand jurors in two different districts voted to indict.

13:51He doesn't have the Letitia James problem where Donald Trump has sent people in to try and bring a retributive indictment and the grand jurors are having none of it. But it's important for people to know that even though it's not working in court, there still are real problems in terms of retribution, in terms of the FBI, in terms of lawyers who have been fired, who've been demoted. We're losing the expertise of those people when they are no longer in the positions to fight for us and to do their work. And I think Don Bongino, know, I think there's not a single person in this country who could say that to be the number two person at the FBI, that he was the most qualified person out there to hold that position.

14:41That just seems like a fanciful claim. And so he really didn't have the experience and background to be holding such an important position. Obviously, he's had a very rocky tenure. We've seen that he was sort of layered. There was somebody who was put in to kind of do his job when he really wasn't doing it. And for somebody like me who worked at the FBI, it's really sad to see that they don't have the leadership that they deserve. And I'm over on time, but you think it might relate to the Epstein deadline or no way to know? I don't know. I mean, I could see that he doesn't want to be a part of it anymore.

15:22There's obviously cognitive dissonance in terms of what he had been saying and what's happening now, because he was clamoring, as you pointed out, to have it all revealed. And the president of the United States today, he doesn't need to wait for a deadline. If the president wanted to release everything, he could do it. Absolutely. All right, Andrew, thank you, our lead off guests on these big stories. Appreciate it. We have more on the chief of staff's blockbuster interview coming up. But Trump's failed attempt to take down Kimmel got grilled today. We talk about where do you find accountability?

15:53Some of it occurred by Democrats on the Hill. We're back with that story in 90 seconds.

16:23Schedule your free quote on windows, siding, roofing, and doors at powerhomeremodeling.com. Power. Our work shows. Every day brings somewhere to be, and everyone counting on you to get them there. With seating for up to seven, the 2026 Jeep Grand Cherokee L keeps busy schedules moving. From early practices to late night games and the triumphant ride home. Available 4x4 capability helps you drive safely and confidently when weather shifts or plans change. The laughter, high fives, and shared wins become the memories you cherish in the 2026 Jeep Grand Cherokee L. Jeep and the Jeep Gorilla registered trademarks of FCA US LLC.

17:01Ugh, the citronella candle is useless. And don't even get me started on the sticky sprays. Did you try the dryer sheet hack too? I've tried everything and the mosquitoes are winning. Stop the losing battle. Try Thermacell instead. Just turn it on, mosquitoes gone. that's it no smoke no smell that's it thermocel creates a zone of protection with the touch of a button thermocel is your new way to keep mosquitoes away shop thermocel today moments after we taped our show last night the mad red hatter wrote i can't believe abc fake news gave jimmy kimmel his job back

17:47you can't believe they gave me my job back i can't believe we gave you your job back jimmy kimmel had the last laugh in the trump fcc's failed bid to get him canceled as you saw there he won the battle and his ratings rose after that clash we can also report new he's just renewed his deal at a time when these companies are trimming late night budgets kimmel beat the censorship efforts of this particular bureaucrat, FCC Chair Brandon Carr. And he found support along the way from a broad spectrum of the public, even in these divided times. Left, right, legal experts, liberal allies who generally might have agreed with Kimmel's punchlines, and support from political opponents like Ted Cruz.

18:30This was rare unity against the bureaucrat's face you see here, A man who is more infamous than famous, more loser than winner in his efforts to use your tax dollars for a big government anti-free speech agenda, one that Cruz blasted as, quote, mafioso tactics, including this. frankly when you see stuff like this i mean look we can do this the easy way or the hard way these companies can find ways to change conduct to take action frankly uh on kimmel or you know there's going to be additional work for the fcc ahead that was the failed plot the government trying to do the programming and nobody liked that it has left car as kind of a bipartisan villain in Washington, which is a rarity.

19:21So often we hear about this side hanging, hating that side and vice versa. He's criticized, as I mentioned, by some on the right. He's loathed on the left for sure. And then Trump might see him as a kind of attack dog, a lightning rod, but he's not a winner. He's become more of a joke. They better be on their best behavior. Otherwise, they'll have to answer to my attack dog at the FCC, Brandon Carr.

19:50Thanks, man. Wow. All right. Thanks, Brandon.

20:02It's funny as long as it fails. If it starts working and this feels like leftist Cuba or the Soviet Union or Hungary, we've got bigger problems. Carr's attacks in the First Amendment are in the news tonight because he faced a type of reckoning in Congress today. His first public grilling over those plots that, had they worked, would be certainly illegal. We'd be covering a Supreme Court case about it. Democrats using their platform today to hammer Carr. Here's how some of those questions sounded. Yes or no, do you still agree that political satire should be protected speech? Chairman Carr, you have repeatedly signaled your desire to use merger reviews to force companies to enact policies favored by the Trump administration.

20:48You are going after broadcast stations, except for Fox, and making threats. He is turning the Federal Communications Commission into the Federal Censorship Commission. It's a betrayal of the FCC's mission. You should resign, Mr. Chairman. You are creating a chilling effect on broadcast stations. That's how it went. Some of Carr's answers were evasive. Some were wrong on the law. Remember, the plots he's pushing for Trump are contradicted by his own public statements and not from when he was, you know, in grad school, but from while he was on the FCC. He said it cannot do under law what he's now trying to do.

21:27It cannot, for example, police speech, misusing a public interest standard for censorship. He also seemed to blunder today, claiming the FCC is no longer an independent agency, which would actually possibly put more blame on Trump, depending on how you read it. That's how Axios referred to the extraordinary statement. The FCC is, however, organized independently under law. It is not like one of the cabinet agencies where you report directly into the president and go to cabinet meetings. This is kind of basic stuff. I can tell you that in their mission statement, they mentioned their independence.

22:00They hastily removed that from the mission statement on the website today to try to match what Carr said after he said it. Here's how his role was under scrutiny as well, his relationship to Trump. Is President Trump your boss? President Trump has designated me as chairman of the FCC. I think it comes as no surprise that I'm aligned with President Trump on policy. I think that's why he designated me as chairman. But ultimately— Do you consider him your boss? Ultimately, the president of designated me as chairman, I can be fired by the president. The president is the head of the executive branch.

22:34The decisions of the commission. So he's your boss. Have you ever had a conversation with the president or senior administration officials about using the FCC to go after critics? Well, first of all, Senator, I don't get into the specifics of conversations that I have. OK, well, let me.

22:55might have been better answer might have been no it is true that agency heads might have some confidential conversations we can respect that but if they were about violating the constitution the first thing they put in the bill of rights and you're at the fcc no it'd be better to be able to say no we've never talked about censoring critics because that's not what we do that's not how we abuse power for whatever reason he couldn't give that answer under oath trump is attacking outlets with sweeping claims and lawsuits. Some are folding. Others, like the Times and the Journal, are fighting back.

23:26Trump admits he wants to abuse regulatory powers to censor critics or get better coverage. That's an ongoing issue in the government review of this Warner Brothers merger and related questions about who will own CNN when it's all over. And this comes as local independent media also face corporate and MAGA pressure. We reported just this week on the cancellation of a popular radio show Ebro in the morning, the hosts say that came after pressure to ease up on Trump and one of his allies, former or sometime Democrat, Cuomo. We are in a crucial moment for free expression in this country. It's a story about the Constitution and about how business works, how business can properly work.

24:07I am, of course, speaking to you through a business right now. It just happens to be an independent one that supports independent free speech values. With that in mind, we bring the great Dylan Rattigan, an expert on business and speaking his mind to the table next.

24:27Will you commit here today that you will not move to revoke any media license for broadcasters or retaliate? Senator, any broadcaster that complies with the public interest standard is not in any risk at all. And you get to determine what is the public interest. So if the president is offended, and you think, wow, that's the public interest. No one should ever offend a president. That seems to be countered to our whole history in this country. The FCC pressuring media businesses, and now Congress pressuring the FCC. We're watching it all play out. We're joined by an expert on business, and I would argue speaking his mind, Dylan Radigan, journalist and author.