Epstein Bombshells Rock Elites from White House to England

18:50Emily Bazelon:We don't know. We are still reporting on what Mr. Blanche and others were doing. But if it were proven that he was knowingly trying to break this law for Donald Trump or any person's benefit, what if it's some other billionaire benefactor? If he were knowingly doing that as the standing deputy attorney general, a Congress might view that as impeachable.

19:10Ari Melber:Yeah, and they said it. They said the DOJ, one of the DOJ statements is we withheld documents that contain untrue or sensationalist claims against the president. In a court that I would go into, I think a judge would say that's an admission that you're violating the law because that is not an exception in the law that it's going to hurt the president. Yeah, and I'll just jump in again and I'll let you finish.

19:35Emily Bazelon:But people who want transparency aren't providing exceptions, certainly not for powerful men, if you want to call it that. But they're not doing exceptions anymore. There's been years of secrecy. So for people who say they want transparency, there are those who said, oh, the photo of former President Clinton doesn't prove misconduct. And lawyers would say that photo alone does not. But you don't hold it back just because he was president. transparency is transparency including for the powerful not an exception for oh i don't know your current or former president whatever party you would think that it would be even more

20:12Ari Melber:important for transparency for the president of the united states but i really credit the survivors here the survivors have been so brave and so consistent and and one of them said to a federal court yesterday that continued non-compliance perpetuates the same secrecy that allowed these crimes to continue unchecked for years. And their pain is just continuing. And they're so brave and so strong to keep fighting. I really credit them a lot. And I hope the courts start to intervene. And impeachment definitely should be on the table if this cover-up continues the way it seems to be leading.

20:54Emily Bazelon:Right, because, Emily, one of the core reasons officials can be impeached is for misconduct pursuant to their public duties, that they are abusing the public trust. So if you're running the DOJ, and he's running point on this, and you are failing to investigate or faithfully pursue the leads in sex crimes and pedophilia and sex trafficking, which are some of the most heinous and punished crimes in the federal code, and doing it for a political reason, I mean, that would be, again, and they'd have to investigate it, but that would be the grounds for it. But broadening out a bit as we're here coming off a State of the Union where this dog, the president, as I mentioned, you can't claim you're for this and then, oh, you didn't mention it all in your big speech.

21:37Emily Bazelon:Obviously, you're not proud of this. How big is this story at this point? You've covered a lot of these type of legal political stories. How big is it?

21:44Ari Melber:I mean, it's been simmering for a long time. It blows up in a big way periodically. I think, you know, to an extent that a year ago might have seemed surprising, But there's real bipartisan energy behind it and all these remaining unanswered questions. Right. It also, you know, we were talking about the serial numbers and the idea that you could have documents that are hidden, but there's still some record. There's an inventory of them. But and that part doesn't necessarily get taken out of the record. That kind of makes sense when you're dealing with millions and millions of pages of documents the way they are.

22:21Ari Melber:So that is just, you know, intriguing in itself. And I think the main thing here is that this story is now it's it's not going to go away.

22:31Emily Bazelon:Well, and if you if you go on the Internet, you've been on the Internet.

22:34Ari Melber:Occasionally.

22:35Emily Bazelon:There are folks posting and saying things like, oh, I think the conspiracy goes all the way back to the beginning and the top. And I understand that line of reasoning. But that's not how federal documents work when you have multiple civil and federal cases and different document centers. And so in the same way that federalism is clunky and annoying, but then sometimes you're like, oh, 50 states, it's harder to steal an election.

23:00Ari Melber:Redundant. Yeah, it's a good thing.

23:02Emily Bazelon:This part of the law, which I think people have learned about, we've all been going to law school because Trump has created a lot of legal challenges as a country. But that part of it means that there isn't one person inside the government, even the attorney general, who can go in and start over and renumber everything.

23:20Ari Melber:Exactly. There are some things that might be just too hard to hide. And look, we've been wondering for a long time, why is Trump so opposed to having these files released? Why not claim victory for this law? Why not take a victory lap last night? And until we know the answer to why these files were seemingly withheld, what were they? Who is this person who made these allegations? All of those questions are going to keep swirling.

23:45Emily Bazelon:Yeah. Emily and Nancy, thanks to both of you. Coming up, we're going to look at J.D. Vance grilled on Fox News.

23:55Ari Melber:Let's get to the issue that might clip this administration, and that's the economy. It seems like you're pushing a car uphill. Do you have enough runway to get this economy where it needs to be before November?

24:08Emily Bazelon:Those are the questions. We'll look into that. And the Trump DOJ is trying to search, harass and even jail reporters. They're facing another setback on that today. It's important. We'll get into it. But up next, Michael Steele. He's back in the building. He stayed up late. He got up early. We're going to talk Epstein, State of the Union, why he doesn't believe in the response speech, but he sees problems ahead in the midterms for the GOP party he once led. That's next.

24:39Ari Melber:We optimize hydration, movement, supplements, and sleep. But most people completely ignore the air they're breathing. And when your air is off, your body feels it first. The Blue Signature Air Purifiers by Blue Air quietly remove airborne pollutants, odors, smoke, and allergens, supporting deeper sleep, better recovery, and clearer focus. It's the most customizable air purifier you can get, with exclusive accessories designed to fit your space and your style. Visit BlueAir.com and use code SIGNATURE30 to elevate your wellness routine. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me?

25:16Ari Melber:because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Nibbles, gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com. At DSW, we ask the important questions, Like, what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season, or just planning the ultimate vacay, the right shoes can make or break an RSVP.

25:56Ari Melber:So own the moment. You've got big plans, and we've got just the shoes. At the perfect price, of course. Get ready to get ready with Designer Shoe Warehouse. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today. And let us surprise you.

26:12Emily Bazelon:The president gave a very long speech last night. If you're counting, one of the longest ever, but never got around to addressing the Epstein issue, while 53 % of Americans do believe he's covering up the crimes. Many speaking out.

26:27Ari Melber:The days of powerful men operating with impunity are officially over. We're not going to be quiet, and we're here because we want accountability, and we want the files released. There were opportunities and they weren't taken, and it is noted. Our children deserve a world where powerful people cannot harm others without consequence. Mr. President, today we are saying we will not move on and the world is not moving on. Every day we're witnessing the untouchables collapse before our eyes.

27:08Emily Bazelon:one of the survivors there as you could see was speaking with our next guest michael seal hosts the weeknight on ms now he once ran the rnc uh and we tag teamed as we did with so many of our colleagues uh watching that thing together and reacting together and as you know you take it in you have your first reaction um now we get to our second reaction it's settled in 22 hours later your thoughts as it's all been absorbed?

27:34Nancy Erika Smith:Look, the whole thing leading in, Donald Trump bragged it was going to be long because it was intentional for him to go long and to set a record or whatever. OK, so he's got a play in his head that is not the narrative that his chief of staff or his political shop or his policy shop wanted the president to get through. It really wasn't until the end, if you go back and look at the very end of that speech, that Donald Trump actually sounded like a president. When he was talking about, sort of thinking about the context of our 250 birthday coming up this year and what that meant, the things that we had done as a nation, starting as 13 colonies and going forward.

28:16Nancy Erika Smith:And the lifespan, generation to generation. Yeah. Somebody wrote that. Somebody wrote that. And he actually read it. Yeah. And he actually read it because at the end he was tired.

28:27Emily Bazelon:And by the way, there was a one beautiful moment when he recognized the veteran who'd lived to 100. That's it. And I was watching and thinking, I swear, I'm being honest. I was watching and thinking, well, this is a proper moment. And I watched the room respond for him. And I was thinking, I swear, I was thinking, all right. So he's not getting in the way of this. If you live to 100 and you fight off and you almost die for your country, he's not getting in the way of this. I was really thinking that. And then he got in the way. And then right after he goes, I should give myself a congressional medal, but that's not allowed.

29:03Emily Bazelon:And I thought, wow, you really, it was like from the soul, you couldn't just let that man's moment stay. He had to joke about giving himself an award.

29:11Nancy Erika Smith:Exactly. And that is why, in a real sense, Ari, he will not address the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. Because he can't afford to get in the way of that moment. Because that would then expose him. What do you say? How do you make it about you? His megalomania would trigger some response that would make this a deeper rabbit hole for him than the one he's already in. So you have those storylines that evolved 24, 22 hours ago. What you've seen since then is a settling in around the country that the women who have been impacted by Jeffrey Epstein, the economies of families and communities around the country, the engagement with a military slash ICE that is antithetical to our governance structure.

30:05Nancy Erika Smith:All of those things still remain very palatable for the American people 22 hours after that speech.

30:11Emily Bazelon:Yeah.

30:12Nancy Erika Smith:There's nothing he can do about that.

30:14Emily Bazelon:And let me show you to this point on TikTok where people just sort of on their phone give their first reaction. As we did ours last night, here's what's people noticing the Epstein hole, if you will.

30:26Ari Melber:That State of the Union address was a hot mess, y 'all.

30:29Emily Bazelon:The all-expected half-truths, full lies. There was zero mention of the Epstein files because of course not. Now the bus expected him to bring up the Epstein files. Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about that topic.

30:43Nancy Erika Smith:That's it. He doesn't want to talk about this topic. And there's no way he's going to talk about this topic because he's so much a part of the conversation. And he can't afford to be, which is why he's got his FBI doing everything they can to keep the documents out of the hands of the people who need to see it. And that's the American people.

31:00Emily Bazelon:There's almost a bizarre symmetry to the point you're raising that he makes everything about himself when it's not. Here's something that does involve him. He had a history with this man and his DOJ is in charge of whatever you want to call it. And that he can't talk about. I want to also turn to the popularity problem because people get inured or kind of over all of this and you forget that we actually have metrics to compare him to other presidents. He's the least popular second term president ever. I want to get you on that. Michael stays and we're back after this.

31:35Emily Bazelon:John Stewart used to joke that reality has a well-known liberal bias, meaning he felt like facts were often just treated as something that only a certain group of people concern themselves with. Well, that's not the case today on Fox News, where they got a big J.D. Vance interview coming out of the State of the Union, but the economic problems which are in our reality still came up. Okay.

31:59Nancy Erika Smith:Let's get to the issue that might clip this administration, and that's the economy.

32:02Ari Melber:It seems like you're pushing a car uphill and you've got nine months to turn it around. You know, Democrats are juiced. They are ready to vote tomorrow. Do you have enough runway to get this economy where it needs to be before November?

32:17Emily Bazelon:Well, Bill, in some ways we are pushing a car uphill. There goes that car. As for the uphill part, well, the public has kind of said enough. There is strong disapproval against Trump's economy, which means those numbers you're looking at statistically include a lot of folks who have voted for Trump, at least in one prior election. But they know what's up. The State of the Union speech has been seen as a chance to dismiss the affordability crisis, as one headline put it. Trump didn't offer housing or health care ideas, the nonpartisan political outlet notes. And the other problem is the, quote, lack of restraint.

32:55Emily Bazelon:That's putting it mildly. Trump's speech is the longest on record. The speech last year was the second longest. He is competing with himself when it comes to testing the public's patience. Now, Bill Clinton did give long speeches, although not 108 minutes. You can look to the median length if you go before the MAGA era, and it was a comfortable hour, not dragging almost into two. This speaks to a wider shift. Trump is Trump, people say, but Trump second term is pretty different from where we started. Michael Steele is here. Your thoughts on that point and what could even be likened to late stage autocrat speech length.

33:39Nancy Erika Smith:Well, what do they do? What does the Fidel Castros and the Orbans do? They give these lengthy diatribes. And the reason is they're now trying to convince and reconvince their population about what they're doing. Because at that point or at this point, the population knows that, you know, the game is over. We know what you are. We know what you're doing. We know what we can and cannot do. We know what we can and cannot access. Donald Trump is now in that same space where he's looking at a reality in which they are, you know, arresting five-year-olds. They are, you know, killing American citizens on the street.

34:18Nancy Erika Smith:And he's got all these things, these narratives that are happening. And he's now trying to justify to us why that's OK, why that's good. And so he's going to take more time to do that. It's almost it's almost the bad parent who just sits there and berates you over and over again to convince you that your behavior is bad. But it's actually their behavior, which is the most disturbing in the moment. And so that's where we find ourselves with Trump as a society, as a community of Americans looking at a leader who has failed on all fronts, trying to convince us that there is no failure here, but success.

34:54Nancy Erika Smith:That, you know, the fact that you're paying more for beef, as my friend Simone would like to remind people, is not real. But wait a minute, I'm looking at$3 a pound versus$1.59 a year ago. And so that's the reality that he's now every day going up against. And so he gets on that stage and he's trying to convince us with a compliant, complicit, and otherwise disengaged Republican Congress to convince us that, oh no, a 359 is always what it's been.

35:27Emily Bazelon:And then you look to the midterms, and the Fox host mentioned this, when you look at the termination of vote, the enthusiasm gap, a lot more Democrats are excited to vote. I want to be clear, they're not 100 % sold on what the Democratic Party is doing. If you ask about the brand, look under the hood. But if you talk about turning out, what do you see here?

35:45Nancy Erika Smith:Well, you know, look, the energy is with the Democrats right now for a whole host of reasons, as well as it should be, because they've been winning special elections. They've been winning midterm, mid-midterm elections, if you will. So they've got that energy. At every turn, if I'm a county, state, or the national chairman of the Republican Party, I am concerned because I've got a base that is clearly not as enthusiastic. I've got candidates who have to carry a very heavy bucket of cement. It's not water, baby, at this point. It is cement that the administration has put in there piece by piece through the various, as Politico noted, there are no policies.

36:27Nancy Erika Smith:There are no storylines that they're telling us. So what are these candidates going to convince the voters about? and what are they going to convince a voter to give them the vote for? And that's a hard case to make, particularly if you want to go to Congress. After what we've seen over the last two years and especially this past year, it's a hard case to make for voters and convince them. And so Democrats have the energy. But again, Democrats need to note, I don't necessarily want to be the guy that, you know, you want to go out with simply because the other person wasn't available or you didn't like that person as much.

37:07Nancy Erika Smith:I got to give you a reason to want to go to the dance with me. I got to give you a reason to want to, you know, hang out with me. And that's what Democrats and particularly candidates have been successful at, at that level. Nationally, it's a different storyline and they've got to marry those two up because they're going to need that energy. Well, you're making the date analogy.

37:26Emily Bazelon:You invite someone to a sold out play on Broadway in New York and they say, wait, when did you get these tickets? How long was this? Is this for somebody else?

37:36Nancy Erika Smith:Yeah, right, right. Nobody wants to feel like that. Right. No one wants to feel like that. And so Democrats, I think, can overcome that if they are successful in getting out of their own way. But the reality of it is no one wants to feel that, but the way the other person is making you feel is worse.

37:56Emily Bazelon:Well, we always love seeing you. I do want to get one official item out of the way. I don't want it to be awkward. What's that? I want to make sure you know you were our first choice for this segment tonight. I feel, I feel. This was not a backup. I feel so good because usually it's the Muppet. Michael Steele, always a pleasure. And I want to remind everyone, Muppet or not, A weeknight, 15 minutes from now, you can get Michael and the gang. Up next, First Amendment rights under threat. And yet, Donald Trump losing the bid from Don Lemon to The Washington Post to harass reporters for reporting the truth.

38:38Emily Bazelon:President Trump facing another defeat in efforts to undercut the First Amendment, something the founders protected precisely because they were worried about this kind of abuse. A federal judge has denied the DOJ's bid to search the phone and computers of a Washington Post journalist. The judge says the court, not the government, will review the devices and determine any material relevant to the investigation. In other words, if this reporter is linked to actual illegal conduct, not just reporting, The judge is saying they'll look at it, but they don't even trust the DOJ and the First Amendment protects that kind of abuse.

39:14Emily Bazelon:The judge stated the DOJ searching those devices would leave a government fox in charge of the Washington Post's hen house. No way. This judge also rebuked the administration for basically the way that it has dissembled in this process, calling out the DOJ for basically trying to undercut or avoid a key 1980 law in the original application for this warrant, which safeguards journalists unless there's probable cause the reporter committed crimes. Again, reporting on the government's conduct, even talking to sources who might be committing crimes because they're leaking material illegally, doesn't make the reporter illegal.

39:54Emily Bazelon:If there were, of course, a true and real crime and the judge found that, that's different. But we have the First Amendment for a reason. Or take veteran journalist Don Lemon, who is facing very thin, spurious charges that many experts think are not valid for the reporting he did on a protest in Minneapolis. This isn't just about me.

40:16Nancy Erika Smith:This is about all journalists, especially here in the United States. For more than 30 years, I've been a journalist, and the power and protection of the First Amendment has been the underpinning of my work. The First Amendment, the freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy.

40:31Emily Bazelon:Lemon speaking out there fighting the case. Trump has threatened these freedoms with attacks and lawsuits against many outlets. In fact, in a very different example earlier tonight, we mentioned the lawsuit on the left against the journal owned by the Fox News empire of Rupert Murdoch, the Times, the BBC, the tech giants on the right, and then of course, the comics. Think about this. President Trump wants a Justice Department that's going to search and harass reporters for reporting. And then he wants to cancel or harass or minimize comics for telling jokes. Is this the America people want to live in?

41:09Emily Bazelon:Judges increasingly ruling it's not the America allowed under our Constitution. I'll be right back.

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42:30Ari Melber:Of course, get ready to get ready with designer shoe warehouse. Head to your DSW store or DSW.com today. And let us surprise you. You know,

42:42Emily Bazelon:we try to follow the news and share it all with you live with. Sometimes we have extra stuff that we share from our longer conversations with interesting people or what we're doing on our nightly podcast. take a look at some of the voices we've heard.

42:59Ari Melber:Being judgmental to me just means I have standards.

43:02Emily Bazelon:Well, let's just go through it. They scream, embrace for impact. This is a real Dr. Jane Goodall Barbie.

43:08Ari Melber:A Barbie doll that encourages little girls to think that I can do that.

43:13Emily Bazelon:Reaching the summit means...

43:15Ari Melber:Trying harder every day.

43:16Emily Bazelon:Peace and fulfillment. I feel like I'm in the foothills.

43:19Nancy Erika Smith:You have done something positive with the power that the summit has given you.

43:23Ari Melber:that I haven't got there yet, I hope.

43:28Emily Bazelon:Those are longer conversations. You might have seen excerpts of them here along with our other guests, but if you go download our podcast, every night we have a Beat podcast where you'll see not only some of the folks I just showed you in that clip, but our other friends and guests, Andrew and Melissa and Maya Wiley, and sometimes we post extra stuff there and longer stuff. So be sure to check out The Beat with Ari Melber. You can go on Apple Podcasts or wherever you go on podcasts to download. You just go in, of course, to the podcast section on your iPhone. Or, of course, you can use a computer if that's how you get your info.

44:04Emily Bazelon:And search The Beat with Ari Melber Podcast. When you subscribe, you will get our nightly downloads and the extras I mentioned.

44:11Ari Melber:Thanks for spending time with us. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh, Nibbles. Gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com.