Epstein Victim Family: Survivors Deserve Answers

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21:37President Trump is planning new tariffs on potentially just about every country in the world. And the U.S. could feel the impact. Very few deals have been struck despite his deadlines. He delayed that Mexico deadline. Canada tariffs, though, are now on track for midnight. Economists saying that like the other tariffs you've heard about, the kind of smorgasbord you see here would still be paid ultimately by partly U.S. consumers. The presidency, though, is larger than just tariffs. We have seen Donald Trump's trade and economic agenda also go partisan and try to wage wars and revenge on any free market or private enterprise figures who disagree with him.

22:20Financial Times reporting how M &A bankers find that deal-making is tough because all of this reflects partisan agendas. As a top dealmaker says, people in the Trump White House say, there's a level of intrusion I've never experienced before. And let me tell you something. That's a financial outlet, FT abroad, and bankers. They lean right or they just want a free market, some of them would say. But this is not some left-wing Democratic liberal critique. We are early in the second term. In the first term, you remember, you heard about it. There were more guardrails. But now you have what might be called a autocratic Hugo Chavez leftist style interference with the free market, except it's waged by someone who at times claims to be red or right wing conservative.

23:10But if you followed Trump and maybe some of these bankers didn't follow close enough or only cared about tax cuts, all of this was telegraphed. He said he would be abusing power. He threatened it and he's doing it. Now, I'm old enough, I don't know about you, to remember when some Wall Street types and Republicans were mad about the claimed critique that Obama was picking winners and losers or interfering with the free market. Kevin McCarthy said the president's picking winners and losers, an assault on jobs, etc. And this was a frequent line of attack from the right. It's a trade-off that's at the very core of a country founded on the sacred rights of the individual The liberty of each and every American It is not government's role to pick the winners and losers

24:01Jason Johnson:Government picking winners and losers and losing big It's socialism, it's command economy, it's picking winners and losers I work for Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan was not in favor of picking winners and losers Don't pick winners and losers That was the idea. And some of Obama's policies could be debated. Of course, he was coming out of the financial crisis, and there were efforts to use policy, which did sometimes, of course, favor, for example, some banks. Of course, that's what a lot of folks wanted during the early bailout that Bush oversaw, or green and environmental projects. But it was done through policy.

24:35There was never in that time even a documented suggestion that it was partisan. For example, if you didn't do the hiring or diversity policies that he liked, he would crack down on you. Well, Donald Trump has already gone after major Wall Street law firms, a story that sometimes is covered about democracy and human rights and who those firms represent. But also, remember, is primarily an attack on bankers and Wall Street. He's also telling some of the most powerful companies in the world, if they don't play ball on ending diversity programs and hiring, they are going to be in trouble. And as you know, in the most extreme cases, he talks about using government power to attack companies, even his former friend Elon Musk, or at times jail their leaders, something he threatened to Zuckerberg.

25:23So what do we do when the old complaint about winners and losers is now actually happening in real time, worse than ever before? And what's Wall Street going to do about it? We turn to our resident independent expert, CNBC's Andrew Ross Sorkin. Next. Normally in these ads, you expect somebody to ask you to buy something. But this is something different. I'm Julian Barnes, and I'm a reporter for The New York Times. I'm a national security reporter, and that means I'm reporting on military operations. These are fast-paced, quickly-moving situations. What exactly is happening on the ground is often shrouded in mystery.

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28:03Jason Johnson:not in favor of picking winners and losers. No picking winners and losers. We have Andrew Ross Sorkin. He is a Wall Street expert, CNBC's Squawk Box, of course, New York Times columnist, bestselling author, co-created Billions, Too Big to Fail.

28:18Andrew Ross Sorkin:Welcome. It's great to see you, Ari. And boy, have you hit on the topic du jour right here. Go ahead. Well, I'll tell you something, because as I was watching that, I was thinking about a conversation I was having last week with a CEO who happened to be thinking about hiring somebody who had been early in the Biden administration, but having that person maybe come to their company and was saying that he was thinking that he would have to try to back channel with people around the president to find out if it would be OK if he were to hire such a person so that he would avoid the wrath of the president if, in fact, this was like an unacceptable hire.

29:05Andrew Ross Sorkin:And I remember I was thinking about that actually as you were playing this and thinking, was there ever a time in American history where the CEO of a company thought to themselves that they needed to check with the president of the United States first to see if it was it was OK? I mean, as the kids say, and I know you have a few. Fidel Castro could never. I mean, this is what we think of as state. It's called state run economy for a reason. Often it's on the far left around the world if you look at recent economic history. But sometimes we know right wing states. I mean, Putin would be the right wing or more autocratic example, whatever word you want to use, because the oligarchs and the big business report to him and that's it.

29:50So he does run the Russian economy that way. But what does that tell you that something that is either autocratic or sometimes thought of as far leftist abroad is now the norm by this Republican president.

30:05Andrew Ross Sorkin:Well, it's just so fat. It means the irony is rich and it's fascinating only because we've heard from Republicans and you were the one who played the video for just so many years that this idea that industrial policy was a bad, a bad idea. I remember, you know, when the Republicans attacked Obama over Solyndra, supporting green, you know, whatever, clean energy. And the point being, though, that here we have a president who's effectively decided to completely go all in on industrial policy, whether it's about, you know, continuing on the semiconductor side, dealing with how we deal with U.S. steel and Nippon in Japan and these golden shares, which effectively are going to be controlled by the government.

30:51Andrew Ross Sorkin:I mean, all of these are just repeated examples of something that was anathema to the Republican Party for a very long time. And I think actually is anathema to so many of the members of the Senate and the House that live within it that are Republicans. But they fear that they can't speak out. So privately, they say, no, no, we don't we don't like this. And by the way, that's before we even get a conversation going about tariffs. That's that's we can we can get to that. But your Wall Street sources look at this and has it shifted their view of what the current Republican Party in this administration is?

31:26Do they say, well, if this is the full choice, they're less interested in Republican leadership or it doesn't go that far?

31:33Andrew Ross Sorkin:Well, so that's where it gets interesting. I think that they look right now and they think that the Democratic Party to them is either broken or has moved in a different way, too. So that, you know, to the extent that there's Democrats in New York, New York City, for example, who are on Wall Street, they're looking at the Mondami situation and saying, that's not my Democratic Party. Right. Right. That's you're seeing that. And they're saying, is that the National Democratic Party? And if that's the National Democratic Party, I'm not I'm not for that either. And then they're trying to weigh, well, which is the better version of these things that they don't they don't like?

32:12Andrew Ross Sorkin:I think it's a lot of people without a lot of homes. Well, they have a lot of them have second homes, unlike most Americans, but they don't have a political. Second, third and fourth. Yes. Yes. And yeah. Yeah. And that's excluding the yacht. So yes, there's lots of places to go live in that regard. No, I think that there's... The thing that I would say about the business leaders in America today, I think a lot of them look at what's happening and I'm not sure they like it. I'm pretty sure they don't, in fact. But I think that they are... And practical may be the wrong word, and you may not agree with this.

32:53Andrew Ross Sorkin:I think they say to themselves, this is the situation for the next three years or at least the next two years depending on what you think happens to the house but the way things look like maybe it's the next three years and therefore they have to navigate whatever that is and the reason i let's touch on that let's touch on that because if that really gets to the heart of the political economy and in every sense of the term you know tom wolf the bible uh of wall street at one point talked about these masters of the universe. And he was slightly tweaking them, but he was also referring to how they think and operate.

33:30And it's only in terms of concentration of wealth and the added layer of the tech control, tech power, only proliferated. So I ask you, because you are one of our whisperers to this world, how do you square thinking you're a master of the universe, making multi-billion dollar international deals that control multiple economies on continents and running a tech company like like an Altman or a Bezos. I have it for you. And then do what you just said, which is shirk and say, well, my God, this is just the world we're in.

34:02Andrew Ross Sorkin:Okay. So I, like you and probably many of the viewers, believe that if you had a certain amount of money, I don't know what that money is, but if it starts with a B, for example, a billion dollars, that would insulate you from just about anything. And therefore, it would create this sort of independence, this remarkable independence where you could come out and speak your mind and say whatever it is you want. So if you disagreed with the president, you could come and say that if you disagreed with you, you would have that independence to do that. And that's what maybe money could buy you. I wish it wasn't that way, given that we're supposed to live in a country where we have a free press and free speech.

34:39Andrew Ross Sorkin:And anybody with no matter how much money you have should be able to say what they want. But and maybe to bring this to this week, it gives you it's a good example of it. You know, after this horrific shooting that happened in Midtown Manhattan earlier this week, I wrote something in The New York Times about how business leaders, this is one of those opportunities to have a reasonable conversation about gun violence in America. and a couple of CEOs called me up, by the way, mostly Democrats, but a couple of Republicans too, who said, yeah, we should be having that conversation, but I can't have that conversation because right now I'll lose that conversation.

35:17Andrew Ross Sorkin:There's no winning in that conversation. And I said to them, well, what happens if you spoke out on this issue, really? And one of them said, well, the president, if he wants to put me in jail, he can put me in jail. And I think that's the thing. This is the one power they don't have, right? They have all the money. They can go on the boats or this or that, the planes, doesn't matter. But if you actually feel that the government, the administration, the president, however you want to think about that, can literally put you in jail. So I'm not even talking about make it make your life tougher with your company or this or that.

35:56Andrew Ross Sorkin:But actually, that's that's a that's a that's a power that that the richest people in the world don't have. Yeah. And I think that that that this is where we are. That weighs on them. Now, I think some of them don't think they're going to go to jail, but they think they're going to make my life difficult with the business. They're going to make my life difficult with this or that or who knows what. And maybe you should say that they should be able to withstand that. And that brings us back to the Chavez and the Putin of it all. I mean, we had Khodorkovsky on who spent nine years in a Siberian prison.

36:23Sounds like a novel, but it really happened. He was the richest man in Russia. He was picked not despite, but because of his wealth, because Putin knew, and this is what these people understand, jailing him, and he was stripped of his assets, obviously, leaves a message for everyone else. They can get him, they can get anyone. And so you're talking about that fear, but you're also talking about, again, I haven't heard many CEOs say it this way in public, which is why it's interesting the role you play. But you're also talking about the creeping autocracy being here, chilling what they do, not just in immigration or what some people consider these policy matters, but in how the entire economy runs, the loss of the free market.

37:06Before we let you out of here, your bottom line, one minute on tomorrow's tariffs.

37:12Andrew Ross Sorkin:Oh, look, maybe we'll see a couple of deals tomorrow. I assume you'll see some more extensions. I think this just gets pushed out. You know, look, we've talked about it a million times. This is eventually a tax on the American people. Maybe it's a one-time tax. Maybe it's a long-time tax. I think we're going to have to see what that ultimately looks like, but it's a tax nonetheless. Some of the tax will get borne by these foreign countries for sure, but a good portion will also get borne by us, especially when it comes to goods, less so on the services. And I think that by default, you will see that get impact impact our economy somehow later on this year.

37:53Andrew Ross Sorkin:I have been wrong in that I thought that they would have impacted our economy already. It didn't. I happen to believe that's because a lot of goods were brought into this country early. and that eventually there will be an impact. But, you know, it's also true that the economy thus far appears stronger than it's been. So maybe we won't feel it as much because the economy will absorb it. But I don't know. Well, the question, as you know, to get off all the politics and the economy is, is it muscle or is it alcohol? Right. If it's muscle and you say, well, we've built it up and it's just stronger and it's humming.

38:32Great. If it's alcohol, you feel strong, but you realize the next morning you're actually weaker than you were before. And I guess we're going to find out if we have another crisis, which we don't root for. We'll have you on extra and we'll look forward to reading the thick tome. Explaining how many pages is too big to fail.

38:50Andrew Ross Sorkin:Too big to fail is about 600 pages, maybe a little over, I think. And I, you know, on God, real humility, I would never, ever be able to write a book like that while doing a daily show. We don't know how you did it, but you did it. Andrew, good to see you. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back.

39:14Jason Johnson:The most humiliating, harmful, racist government policy I've ever seen executed. The targeting of Latinos is something that is, Ari, it is absolutely appalling. They walk around now, the laborers on Long Island, worried that because they are Mexican, they're going to get scooped up and their lives are going to be ruined. is something that I believe is shameful in every regard. Trump ally for a long time. Fox News host for a long time there. Geraldo laid it out. That was just on this program last night. NBC's Jacob Soberoff was reporting just from inside of Manhattan Immigration Corps where ICE agents have been arresting and detaining migrants, looking at how this actually works.

39:59Tell us what your reporting shows. It was unbelievable, Ari. You know, I talked to you from L.A. when we watched the wide scale, widespread mass deportation effort unfold on the streets of L.A., people going to ICE agents, Border Patrol agents, Home Depots, flower stands, you name it, really terrorizing the community. And it's playing out here in New York City in a different way. It's happening in the courtrooms outside of immigration court where people are trying to go, immigrants, check in for their legal immigration hearings. And people are literally being snatched. Many They walk out of their lawful immigration hearing, some with a date to come back again to continue that process.

40:36And like you're seeing in this video right now, as families are walking in the hallways, being taken and being basically rendered to the 10th floor of this building, 26 Federal Plaza here in Manhattan, to conditions that advocates and lawyers say are not only inhumane and overcrowded, but illegal. It violates their due process. And this is the clash that comes when you actually see what it means to do these kind of crackdowns. if you only focus on the highest risk factors or people with more active criminal or violent records, it's a very different thing. But when you start to go into these courts and you say people who are literally doing what they were told for years by the U.S.

41:14government to do, to engage in this process. To do it the right way. To show up and then to see about their path to citizenship or their papers, and now that becomes a kind of a hunting ground. What Stephen Miller wants, and NBC's reported, other outlets have reported it, is to deport 3 ,000 people a day. And you are not going to deport 3 ,000 people a day going after what they promised they would do, which is the worst of the worst, the rapists, the violent criminals, the murderers. They need to go after working class people. And that's exactly what they are doing. And it's exactly actually also what they promised when, you know, I was on the floor of the conventions when they held up those signs.

41:48Mass deportation now. Mass deportation is just family separation by another name. They can't do it without going after ordinary people. And so now they're finding the places. In California, It's work sites here in New York. It's courthouses. And I would recommend anybody go. Anybody that has, you know, one of these, a press badge, I wear it on my head. Anybody can go in there and say, I'm a member of the media. You should go in and watch for yourself. You have to see it. So you saw sort of an arrest and a detention here. There's like grabbing and they're moving around. Reporters are there. Let's just take a look at that moment.

42:22Andrew Ross Sorkin:Excuse me. Hey, you have to move. You know, I'm sorry. You're speaking? Oh, he's competing? He's competing.

42:33Jason Johnson:You're competing! You're pushing, you're pushing.

42:50I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

42:52Andrew Ross Sorkin:12.9 seconds. A dump paper. And that's it. That's it. We go. Tell us about what you saw there, and what does this say? What message does it send to people who have to choose between staying in the shadows undocumented or showing up for this process? You hit the nail on the head. That is the most important point. It sends a chilling effect. That was one of five apprehensions I saw just like that between the hours of 8 a.m. and 1 p.m. And as I mentioned, this is happening every just as many happened in May and June has happened all throughout the entire beginning part of the year leading up to that.

43:31So they are ramping this up in a way that has had this chilling effect, as you point out, that not only makes people stay home from immigration court, local law enforcement will tell you it makes people less likely to report crimes in the first place because they're worried about what happens when law enforcement comes knocking on their doors. So local law enforcement will tell you it makes the city and cities across the country less safe. And immigration attorneys will tell you it's going to make their clients less likely to come out to court to do things the right way and hide in the shadow.

43:56It's going to have the opposite effect that this administration wants. Right. Well, there's a lot of rhetoric about this. You're actually there doing the reporting and with your teammates, our camera people and everyone else. And so we can see what it really looks like, what the results are, and people can assess that. We're going to be right back. Our thanks to Jacob. Thanks, Ari. There is a lot going on, but as Stephanie Ruhle brought up at the top of the hour, sometimes we do broaden out to other voices. For example, voices like these.

44:24Jason Johnson:Being judgmental to me just means I have standards. Well, let's just go through it. They scream, embrace for impact. This is a real Dr. Jane Goodall Barbie. A Barbie doll that encourages little girls to think that I can do that. Reaching the summit means. Trying harder every day. Peace and fulfillment. I feel like I'm in the foothills. You have done something positive with the power that the summit has given you. That I haven't got there yet, I hope. Some people we've heard from across different walks of life, which brings us to tomorrow. As Stephanie mentioned, we have Pusha T and Malice from the clips.

45:03You can see I sat down with them. It's a brand new interview. We have not aired it yet because sometimes we do these longer form discussions. They will be here. This interview will air tomorrow on the beat for the first time. If you stick around and see us then. Thanks for watching.

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