Judge Orders More Epstein Files Released

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0:48Ty Cobb:Choose Power Home Remodeling and remodel how you think about remodeling. Schedule your free quote on windows, siding, roofing, and doors at powerhomeremodeling.com. Power. Our work shows. I'm Ari Melbourne. We begin with a federal judge doing something that is rocking the Trump DOJ, ordering DOJ to release even more Epstein files, including unredacted ones that could come within a week. In response to a filing alleging DOJ failed to comply with the Epstein law. We all remember how that went. There were delays, there were redactions, there were mistakes. This is new, though, and this involves the work of intrepid journalists, survivors, other critics who have stayed on the case.

1:27Ty Cobb:The judge ruling that because the underlying lawsuit made these valid claims and the acting attorney general Todd Blanche on behalf of Trump didn't really engage, didn't respond substantively to those valid legal arguments. He effectively, and this is where strong arm in the courts can backfire on Trump, the judge found that they effectively, quote, conceded violation of the act. That's the Epstein law. So the DOJ has until the end of next week to release the records or go back to court. And this comes at a time where the ongoing pressure has coordinated. In other words, that lawsuit was going.

2:02Ty Cobb:The judge decided when to rule. But what you see today on your screen is another big day of blockbuster testimony happening on Capitol Hill. The scandal roaring back despite Trump's best efforts to get Republicans to stand down. Well, Trump has failed on that. Billionaire Leon Black went into a closed doors interview. And if you want to get a sense of whether it mattered, whether he was facing uncomfortable, tough questions, well, he stormed out of there before it was over. So more on that tonight. Our guests will break it down. But just to remind you, Black was such a key figure in Epstein's orbit because while other people came and went, some said they had no idea what was going on or they never exchanged money.

2:42Ty Cobb:Black was a much bigger deal. The Times reporting Epstein's friendship with Black was basically, quote, the most important relationship he had with someone in that rich and powerful circle. There were other rich and powerful people. Some of them had sporadic contact or, you know, a group dinner here or there that many of those people have now said they regret. But this was, according to the Times, the most important. Black kept Epstein afloat financially, even after the 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor. and all of that is context for how today, all these years later, because of all the things we've all lived through as a country, the pressure on Trump, the way this became a bipartisan issue, the way that even after the documents, the files came out, members of Congress kept pushing, and I should mention including some Republicans who crossed Trump on this because they said it mattered.

3:30Ty Cobb:All of that leading up until this day with the pressure on Black to do something that he dodged largely, which was appearing in this kind of high stakes testimony. And he didn't want to answer these questions. He didn't want to get into alleged hush money payments. He didn't really have great answers, as I'll show you about why he paid so many millions, over$160 million, to Epstein. And there was a general sense that he was dodging. We have had many of these depositions and interviews, and this is the first time as someone actually walked out in the middle of it. This is also the first time I heard someone gush poetically about how smart and how great Jeffrey Epstein was.

4:09It's also clear that Mr. Black knew of Epstein's past conviction and plea deal and also was unbothered by it. Leon Black was arrogant. He was smug. He refused to answer the questions.

4:26Ty Cobb:That's the view of several of the Democratic lawmakers. Now, to give you the accurate full picture, Black and his lawyers arranged for him to come in voluntarily. Now, that would be a good thing if he voluntarily participated throughout, but it looks a lot more like a kind of a bait and switch because he came in voluntarily, but then wouldn't answer questions, including foreseeable questions. There is documentation about him sending money to women related to the Epstein case. There is reporting that there may be NDAs. The thing about reporting on NDAs, though, is if you don't actually get a hold of them and both parties have legal agreements and sanctions and hanging over them to not admit them, it could be hard to get to the bottom of that.

5:07Ty Cobb:But these were not kind of oddball, unfair, random questions. These are the kind of things that you would expect a participating witness to prepare for, refresh their memory, talk to their lawyers, and answer. Instead, Black was, according to many, and the Republicans and Democrats appear to agree on this point, dodging things and not willing to get into those NDAs and non-disclosure hush money agreements at all. And so that led to this very unusual development where basically during the interview, he got a legal subpoena. That's them kind of calling his move and saying, yeah, you said you'd come in voluntarily, but we have methods to make you talk.

5:44Ty Cobb:We are Congress. People go to jail sometimes for violating subpoenas. You probably remember Navarro and other cases. So they gave him that, telling this billionaire they're going to be tough, top Democrat Robert Garcia discussing that. We actually commend Chairman Comer's decision here. It's what Democrats have been asking for. These subpoenas will ensure that we get the NDAs, but also ensure that we actually get Leon Black in front of our committee under subpoena and under oath so that he actually has to answer these questions. These interviews should all be under oath. Two quick points there on substance, using actual pressure with teeth to get more information about this.

6:28Ty Cobb:That's the substance of subpoenaing someone even who tried to, with his fancy lawyers and big plans, tried to use a voluntary appearance to maybe just get by this. So that's substantively what's happening, pressure. On the politics, and Congress is full of politics, what you just heard was a Democrat, quote, commending a Republican on that committee for using those tactics, which is a reminder that for all of the partisan rancor and all the failures that we've seen, this issue does seem to go differently. Mr. Garcia, who I just showed you there, has been on this program. He's talked about how they want to work whichever way they can, including with Republicans who are willing to go forward on an investigative basis.

7:04Ty Cobb:Now, that doesn't include Trump or Blanche, Republicans who have been fighting this tooth and nail, but if it includes Chairman Comer today, Well, you're seeing that bipartisanship, at least on this subpoena issue. Now, we did hear from Black, and as always, I want to tell you what he's saying. I showed you the criticism of him, I showed you the pressure, but this is also a time for learning. And just like any court case, you want to learn both sides, you can make up your own mind, but if you think of Black here as the kind of civil witness in this process, here's what he was saying. He claims he was duped by Epstein.

7:38Ty Cobb:That over$60 million was actually basically tricked out of him, even though he is supposed to be a pretty sophisticated banker, that financial advisory fees he was told were tax deductible, so he thought they would actually cost him a lot less. Now, let me pause right there. That's his defense of forking up tens of millions of dollars for these tax services. But it's not really conceivable that someone at the top of the financial industry, a billionaire with hordes of lawyers, lawyers at his capital firm, personal lawyers, civil lawyers, been around the block a couple decades, done big deals, that he wrongly thought that business services would be tax deductible, like some kind of charitable donation.

8:21Ty Cobb:Any lawyer, anyone in finance knows all about that and wouldn't really fall for that. So I'll tell you what he said, but I'll also tell you the strength and the credibility of that particular defense. Now, he's also denied any wrongdoing or knowledge of Epstein's criminal conduct. And we should note he has not been pursued criminally thus far. Black's ties to Epstein, though are deep, the phrase, quote, please call Leon Black, appears over 300 times in the Epstein files. So either you believe these two men were constantly discussing tax policy, or there were calls about other things. Then there's that money I mentioned already that Black said he thought it was less, but the actual total charge was about$170 million across six years.

9:03Ty Cobb:So either you believe that that was all for tax services, and you could have a pretty big tax bill and still not want to pay$170 million to avoid it. You might just put that money towards the bill. But either you believe that or, as these investigators have said, there's more to the story. Because the Times reporting suggests that Epstein was doing other non-taxed services for Black, including being a type of fixer. What that actually means and entails is still under investigation. The Times also reporting that Epstein did do that financial work, that despite his financial dependency, Epstein believed he still had power in the relationship.

9:39Ty Cobb:The pressure campaign appeared to work. Black, one of the richest Wall Street figures, continued to fork over tens of millions of dollars. So reading between the lines there, the Times is suggesting that perhaps it's not proven, but perhaps there were reasons that that money was changing hands beyond the just claimed tax services. Now, again, I told you we're going to tell you both sides of this right before we bring our guests. One of Black's lawyers tells the Times that the payments to Epstein were all tax and estate planning services. and, just to get this on record, they added to imply that Epstein somehow had influence over Mr.

10:15Ty Cobb:Black is false and patently absurd. That's reporting from the Times, and we are joined by Deputy Investigations Editor from the New York Times, David Enrich, who has covered Black and Epstein's relationship extensively, as well as many other facets of this, and another reporter who's worked on this story quite a bit, Tara Palmieri, veteran journalist, author of The Red Letter on Substack, and host of the Tara Palmieri podcast. Welcome to both of you. David, you and your colleagues reporting is paramount here. I mentioned that we do want to reflect the denials. There was also a clear clash over the scope of testimony today.

10:50Ty Cobb:Given that you've been so deep in this, one, where does black fit into the Epstein circle? Just big picture to remind people. And then two, what stood out to you or what did you learn today? it well and the the the black relationship is arguably one of the very most important relationships that epstein had and black was the single biggest financial contributor to epstein probably ever but certainly in the years after he was convicted of a sex crime and had to register as a sex offender so he played an absolutely indispensable role in keeping epstein afloat allowing him to continue to abuse women, young women, and also maintain this very extravagant lifestyle.

11:34And the thing that surprised me about today's hearing is that it was very odd to me that Black was willing to go in there voluntarily in the first place. He's been extremely tight-lipped and uncooperative with requests to better understand the nature and extent of his relationship with Epstein. And the notion that he was going to go in there and just voluntarily, happily answer everything for lawmakers really surprised me. And it turned out that was not at all what he intended to do. And now I guess he's going to have to do that under threat of contempt of Congress.

12:08Ty Cobb:Tara, what stands out to you? We want to know because you've covered this a lot. And I want to play as well what Chairman Comer said today. Take a listen. The NDAs are between him and other women. We want to know, was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the NDAs? Was he involved in writing? Was he involved in awarding funds to the women for the NDAs? What was the reason for the NDAs? We want to know everything about the NDAs.

12:48yeah i think that this was a huge waste yeah this is a huge waste of time obviously to have him on the hill it should have always been under oath there should have always been a penalty of perjury now he's going to show up again will he plead the fifth the entire time we don't know but i mean even if you just look through some of the prosecution memos dating back to 2019 multiple Jane Doe's accused Leon Black of sexual abuse. They did so under threat of perjury themselves and sworn depositions with the FBI. It's baffling to me that there hasn't been an investigation into Leon Black. As we know, the former U.S.

13:28attorney, Jay Clayton, was actually appointed by Leon Black to his post as chairman of Apollo Private Equities, which is the firm that he founded when he was pushed out or up because of his Epstein scandal. So, you know, it's been a really big shocker to various victims and survivors who just wonder when are they actually going to get justice. And in all of these cases, it feels like, you know, Congress has in some ways offered these potential co-conspirators a platform to clear their name rather than actually holding them to account under oath and directly questioning them. And frankly, they should be doing it in front of the cameras because this story has been a huge cover up from the beginning and people need to actually see the kind of questioning.

14:15Did they actually read to Leon Black some of the legal filings prepared by the Southern District of New York back in 2019 where, you know, word for word what Jane Doe's have alleged and let him actually respond? We don't know that. You know, we need to be able to see that they are getting a rigorous cross-examination because that's what the American people deserve.

14:35Ty Cobb:Yeah, I think that's important and useful that you're reminding everyone there's many, sadly, there's many tentacles to these conspiracies and stories, and you're reminding everyone of the credible accusations, statements by women in affidavits, in legal proceedings about this same individual. David, I want to play some of how the news reports have discussed this issue that even Donald Trump's cabinet secretary referred to as, quote, blackmail. Epstein was not charged with blackmail. I want to be precise about what we're talking about. But take a listen how some of this has played out. He tried to almost test what he could get away with and kind of went up a ladder in a way of trying to go big name after big name.

15:16He wanted to manipulate all the people that he thought were going to pose, you know, an obstacle to what he wanted to do. And there are other emails like that where I'll always keep your secrets. People use their, like, power and influence and access to semi-famous or famous people to, like, manipulate other people. And Jeffrey Epstein did this. To me, it looks like blackmail should be investigated.

15:42Ty Cobb:That's what we've heard, David. The Times reporting looks at the, what lawyers would call the elements of blackmail. Does it land on saying this was basically a series of blackmail campaigns? Or does it go short of that based on the evidence you have? And where does this witness fit into that? Yeah, I mean, I definitely cannot say that this amounts to blackmail. What we know is that an Epstein was paid something like$170 million over four or five years. Some of that was definitely for legitimate tax and estate planning services. There's no question about that. But what we also know is that regardless of what this was, this is what Epstein was paid for.

16:23We know that he provided a lot of other services as well. And that included, he introduced Epstein to a bunch of, or sorry, he introduced Black to a bunch of young women. When those relationships soured, Epstein was there helping clean up the mess, helping to arrange payments. We know that on a number of occasions, Epstein in emails reminded Black of that kind of work that he had performed. Now, I do not know that that constitutes blackmail. It may just be him pressuring, it certainly was him pressuring Black to pay him millions of dollars more. But there's a lot of hair splitting going on from Black's camp, which is arguing that these payments were purely for these legitimate tax and estate planning services.

17:03And, you know, money is fungible. So all we know is that the money was paid to Epstein and we know the array of services Epstein was providing. And I can't say if certain funds were earmarked for specific purposes, But there's no question and unequivocal evidence in the Epstein files and from sources we've spoken to that show Epstein was helping black deal with women. Yeah.

17:26Ty Cobb:And Tara, if I could just add one thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go to you. I want to I want to mention one more thing and go to you. Because Bill Gates, I just want to remind everyone recently, gave testimony where he said he believed that that might have been one of Epstein's goals, but he didn't do it. And all of this matters if Epstein was blackmailing people of that power. Was he blackmailing anyone in government for what has been documented as special treatment? I think that's those I'm putting those out as questions that are important. Tara gets our last word tonight. Please go ahead. Thank you.

17:56I just wanted to piggyback onto that reporting. You know, in the emails, it shows that Epstein's pilot, Larry Vysosky, went out and bought a bunch of pin cameras, really tiny cameras that he could place inside of Kleenex boxes around the house. And he told Jeffrey Epstein that he had done that. He even remarked in an email inside of the Epstein files that it was remarkable how small these cameras were. You know, you have to wonder, what are they doing with all of this footage? We also know from emails internal inside of the Epstein files that FBI agents discussed the fact that there was 40 to 50 terabytes of video footage that they were sitting on.

18:34We haven't seen that. We've only seen 300 megabytes of files so far. I think it's gigabytes, maybe megabytes or gigabytes, but we haven't seen terabytes. Terabytes are huge files. So you've got to wonder, what is all of that video that the FBI is sitting on? And is it blackmail? We don't know for sure because FBI has the footage right now.

18:58Ty Cobb:All great points. I want to thank both of you. You worked on the story a lot on a big day on the Hill. Until folks coming up, Iran and the U.S. exchanging new hostilities, raising questions about this tentative peace deal. J.D. Vance, basically saying maybe Watergate was no biggie, which is alarming. And we have a very special guest, as we sometimes do to end the week when he is available, Ty Cobb, a Trump White House veteran, very critical of what's happening in this administration. My special guest next in 90 seconds.

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21:04Ty Cobb:The Iran ceasefire has tilted back towards something that is not exactly a ceasefire. Now, this has happened before, and we don't want to be alarmist, but there are great concerns because this is hostilities between nations that are trying to get out of the war we've heard so much about. Here's the news. The Pentagon states it has launched new strikes on Iranian drone and missile targets today. That comes after Iran hit a container ship that was passing through the Strait of Hormuz that we've heard so much about. Safe passage of the Strait is one of the elements of the Memorandum of Understanding reach between these two countries.

21:40Ty Cobb:Other details and requirements include abstaining from threats, which is something that under Donald Trump, the United States also broke. And so we are in this period of wondering whether any of this is actually going to hold. I want to bring in David Rothkopf, foreign policy expert, member of the Council on Foreign Relations, host of Deep State Radio, the podcast. Welcome back. You know, we were talking this week about how many experts say Trump lost the war, struck this deal, and that the substance of the deal, its impact on the U.S. and allies, is negative, even though people didn't want to go back to war.

22:16Ty Cobb:Now we have the exchange of hostilities, and so catch us up on where we are tonight. Well, I think, you know, negotiations sometimes take the forms of people sitting around a table, and sometimes negotiations are indirect. Sometimes in unhealthy relationships, like in other kinds of relationships, the communication is via violence. And in this particular case, there's several people being communicated to. The Iranians were communicating to the operators of the vessels going through the strait that they wanted them to go through certain channels because they control those channels. And I think it's important to Iran in terms of the long-term negotiation to be able to say, we are in charge because I think ultimately they want to get paid for it, right?

23:07And they also, at the same time, are communicating with Washington. Washington has said, don't do anything to violate the agreement. And the Iranians are saying, well, what if we do this? How are you going to respond to that? And the United States is saying, well, if you do this, we're going to send in six aircraft. We're going to attack four drone strikes, which is what happened for 90 minutes. It was kind of proportional. It was designed not to derail the whole negotiating process. And so you've got both sides kind of understanding what the parameters are. And frankly, that's a sign that the Iranians can't communicate openly with us.