Kimmel Outwits FCC: Talarico Interview Hits 5X Usual Audience

0:00Exterior Remodels Inner Monologues brought to you by Power. The house looks good, like really good. That siding, stunning. The roof, elevated. Windows, I mean, wow. The process, smooth. The neighbors, jealous. Choose Power Home Remodeling and remodel how you think about remodeling. Schedule your free quote on windows, siding, roofing, and doors at powerhomeremodeling.com. Power. Our work shows. The afternoon light is becoming as golden as aspen leaves. The air is growing more crisp. And the silence just seems to say more. Absorb it and let the rest go. Like that first misty breath on a cool morning.

0:48Autumn is arriving. The days are growing shorter. Make the most of them. Park City, Utah. For the mountain kind. Plan your trip at visitparkcity.com. Welcome to The Beat. I'm Ari Melber. We're tracking several big stories, including the latest developments in the strange confluence of factors coming together to regulate AI, including what we hear in politics, the unusual bedfellows you'll see. That includes the very different politics of the two men you see on your screen. That's a big story today coming up. And Colbert and Kimmel back in the spotlight as they show how to fight censorship in their own ways.

1:27And news on Colbert's recognition. So we're going to bring you all that throughout our hour. We begin, though, with something you got to see. I'm about to show it to you. Donald Trump's new legal defeat, the Supreme Court rejecting the mail ballot scheme. This has been dogged in the courts. It's the latest in actually a long series of setbacks that are protecting the midterm vote against Trump's effort to attack our democracy. The Supreme Court has rejected President Trump's attempt to restrict mail-in ballots. This caps a flurry of last-minute legal activity with voting now already underway in some areas.

2:06The top story right now is the breaking news. The federal judge here granting relief to the states that were fighting Trump. A new push by the Trump administration to restrict voting by mail. It has appealed to the Supreme Court again. This is a big loss for the Trump administration on the midterm ballot clash. He is desperate because he knows that this is a referendum on his leadership. What you're seeing there is all of the losses leading up to another loss. And every justice that Trump nominated voting against him, Trump complains these are not the people I interviewed to serve, a kind of a tell that he doesn't view them as independent justices, and he wanted them, quite literally, to join his mail-in ballot scheme to undermine democracy, and they didn't.

2:54We showed you the history because if you were living your life or going through the long weekend that ends the summer, etc., you might have missed some of the steps up to this point. But while there's been wrangling, Trump is losing. And that means the midterm ballots are now under law going out safely and without his meddling. It is a Supreme Court defeat. And it's broader than just the midterms. We have the mail ballots. That's the big live issue right now. But you have also the citizenship case, the tariffs and protecting the Federal Reserve. Now, none of this means that we have some perfect Supreme Court.

3:27And on any other night, we could report on all of the issues facing the court. But on these extreme, unlawful, clearly unconstitutional measures that Trump has pursued more in the second and the first term and more going at midterm voting in advance rather than sort of what he did, we all remember, in Jan 6, which was largely after the votes came in, all of this showing the Supreme Court will hold the line on this. So what is Trump doing in response, still looking for any chance to meddle. And this is important because what I'm telling you tonight is the person who fomented an actual insurrection and then pardoned the violent people who did it, the very anti-police, anti-democracy incumbent that we happen to have in the White House, this person's going to keep doing that.

4:08But society, the courts, country, the free press, the nation can still stand up for democracy. In other words, the fight ain't over, but he is losing the fight tonight. The Times reporting that the mail ballot plan is one piece of a broader effort with the full power of the federal government under Trump to try to take quote, more control of state-run elections. Then you have the Attorney General and the FBI director speaking today and showing us a preview of what you need to get ready for. I say that quite seriously because if the Republicans, if the Trump-aligned party happens to win the midterms, which could happen, we will see less of this.

4:44And the free press in this country, we report on and support the outcome of democracy, period, full stop. But if the Democrats happen to win, unlike the first term and certainly different than every other past administration we've seen in the modern era, you can expect the power and the force of this DOJ and this FBI, quite legally corrupted under Trump, to be potentially trying to confuse, abuse, or overthrow their loss in the coming election. That's the context of them speaking out right now. As far as President Trump's truth about the justices, he is very frustrated. He has every right. And indeed, he should communicate his concerns with the Supreme Court whenever he has them.

5:33This isn't the first time that he's done it, and it won't be the last. We have an election crimes community coordinator in all 56 field offices, so you bet we're going to have them there in manning the post for election interference matters. On the one hand, you have the attorney general speaking the way he does, sort of trying to boil this down to a freedom of speech issue. Of course, Donald Trump may criticize the Supreme Court and other presidents have done that. That's not the real issue. And then you have the FBI director fear mongering. Even as they lose the main effort that we know about publicly to interfere in the midterms, he's out there saying, well, maybe we'll have people at the polls or do other things.

6:06But again, the Supreme Court is holding the line on the ballots. I would expect them, we will follow the case, but I would expect them to also hold the line if there are efforts to illegally abuse power, to put federal agents where they cannot be under the law, or to tamper with the actual ballots, something that, remember, Trump wanted to do before Jan 6, but even his own advisors like Giuliani disavowed his thought, his sort of maybe pre-plan, when he mused about whether he could get the military to go take ballots. That went nowhere. And so this is a court that can act on a fast basis that can respond to these matters legally.

6:40Then you have a much more minor sort of petty squabble over this Kennedy Center issue in Washington, not something most voters and citizens care about. But a federal judge blocked Trump from again trying to plaster his name on there. And afterwards, Trump's panel, the people he put on that center to do his partisan war, said they might try to shut down the whole place for renovations. A kind of a tit for tat, acknowledging the loss in court and saying, well, then maybe you can't have the Kennedy Center at all. I want to bring in Andrew Weissman, a former FBI general counsel, MSNOW legal analyst, a former top prosecutor in the Mueller probe.

7:17He hosts Answers with Andrew, which is part of MSNOW membership. You've seen those promos on our air. And if you're interested in that, you can sign up for the MSNOW membership to hear from Andrew there. That's kind of an exclusive program. Although, Andrew, we're not paywalling you tonight. I'm very happy to say we have you as our leadoff guest. We started with the serious. For free. Yes, sir. We started with the serious, the midterm. And we can get to the Kennedy Center, the petty. But on the midterms Not that the Supreme Court is doing some grand great thing They're doing their, I guess, jobs Against these repeated efforts But how do you view The way that the Trump agenda to tamper with elections Has moved earlier in the calendar And at times that is That's been complex For some of the courts And timing issues in the courts But today, as our montage showed Again, when it goes to court He's losing

8:17The decision from the Supreme Court was a huge blow to the Trump administration, not just because they said no, but it's the way they said no. I had thought that they would not win, but there was an easy way for the court to say, you know what, we just can't do this for the midterms. It's too soon. There's no way for the state to comply that quickly. And frankly, the Postal Service isn't even showing that it's able to comply with this. So we're going to kick the can down the road. That was the easy way to decide this case. But they did more than that. They said, yes, there's a problem in terms of the timing, but the majority, and it's five or six, we don't know for sure, likely six justices said that the Trump administration is likely to lose on the merits, meaning don't come back because it's not just that it's not good for the midterms.

9:26It's not good forever. Now, the only bad news is that this really should have been nine to zero. I hear you on that. Let me slow you down. We can, you'll have time if you want to speak to the dissent, like the legal scholar you are. But on the majority, it is important because there's been a blizzard of rulings and there's been what are earlier stage, earlier posture rulings by lower court judges. So tonight for folks tracking. What Andrew's talking about is the Supreme Court saying, no, you can't do that. And if you try to do that on what lawyers call the merits, you're going to lose the core, the substance of this.

10:04And that is because, Andrew, among other obvious things, but again, we're here to kind of just say it in English. There's no precedent and no reason to think that the president can abuse the Postal Service to hijack a power that the Constitution reserves to the states. Can you speak more on that merits and then we'll get to the dissent? Sure. So that that really is the idea that the Postal Service can start monkeying with who gets ballots and who does not is something that the Supreme Court obviously was really had a lot of trouble with. My analogy was, if you allow this, what's what's going to stop the president from saying, you know what, we're only going to mail ballots out to Republicans and we're not going to allow Democrats to vote by mail.

10:56And so this this is I'll let you finish. But sort of their bill, I'll let you finish. But the the trouble that Trump's having with some Republicans, he'd have to go even narrower. He'd be like past Trump voter Republicans because he's lost some Republicans in Texas and elsewhere. But go on, sir. Yeah, what I was going to say is, in many ways, I sort of viewed this as the Bill Barr moment for the Supreme Court. You know, Bill Barr had a moment where he said, you know what, I'm not going along with an insurrection. There was a line he was not willing to cross. And here you have a majority of likely six justices saying, we are not okay with this and don't come back.

11:38In other words, it's not a question of just the midterms. This is something that you do not have the power to do. Don't monkey with this. As I said, the dissents are really the problem here because this was such, as you're pointing out, Ari, is such an obvious issue that the dissents just blew by all of the concerns of the majority, all of the concerns that if this rule were put into effect for the midterms, it could lead to tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people being disenfranchised. And the two justices in dissent, Justices Alito and Thomas say, while they, quote, take that seriously, apparently not seriously enough, they would have allowed this to go forward.

12:25So to me, that is the thing that I found sort of striking, is that you have two justices that, in my view, are really flying their MAGA flag. I mean, it was so incredible that they They were willing to let this go forward, even in the midterms when the states were not going to be able to comply with this. And the Postal Service itself wasn't saying it was ready. And so to me, that was something that is truly upsetting to see in a democracy where you have two justices showing showing that sort of, in my view, bias. And that goes to the big question that so many are focused on, even though, as you said, it's good news for democracy tonight, which is what else needs to be done to fortify and protect the midterms and knowing that those votes could be sort of flushed out.

13:17That's the question I want to get in with with you. We have our shortest break, 90 seconds, and then we'll turn to that with Andrew next.

13:35We're back with Andrew Weissman discussing the Supreme Court rejecting Trump's efforts to do this mail ballot scheme. He lost even the Trump appointed justices, but as Andrew pointed out, got some other dissents. What do you think the dissents are doing in typical legal tactical strategy? You don't announce yourself as extreme and the risks that come with that without getting something. So an extreme vote to get to 5-4 in sort of legal horse trading is quite different than what happened here. How do you view that? What do you think of the skeptical or cynical take that people say, critics say that they want to show what the anti-democracy votes are and try to build on that?

14:17Trump famously complained that he couldn't even get to court appealing his 2020 laws. So I don't know what their sort of hidden agenda is, but I think one of the things that it does is it helps the far extreme right say, oh, look, we have some legitimacy. We have justices on the Supreme Court who agree with us. we are not taking the most outlandish position because, look, we have at least two justices who agree. And it really does give a sort of stamp of this is not some far sort of fringe theory. The issue, though, is that you have these Supreme Court justices going along with the fringe theory.

15:10So it really shouldn't have that effect. But I do think that within the sort of MAGA world, it allows them to sort of latch on to that. So let's let's take that seriously, as they say. Let's stipulate in fairness that we're not in their minds. So, as you carefully said, we don't know exactly what they're doing. But when you look at, say, the citizenship case in this case, where the Constitution says X, states do this. Born here, you're a citizen. and Trump says something that in 2015, every Republican and everyone else and every lawyer would say is just nuts and a waste of time. He says the opposite of X.

15:51Oh, the Constitution, it doesn't say that states do this and that they're kind of sane washing in robes, potentially, at least according to critics, for the external political benefit for Trump and not as a substantive, serious legal activity. Yes, and the other thing that I think people should focus on is the Supreme Court is entitled to consider if the rule were going to go into effect at the midterms, they're allowed to consider what's called the equities, the balancing. And one of the key things that was argued for why the government shouldn't be able to go forward with the rule for the midterms was because so many people would not be able to vote under this system because the states either wouldn't have to get their act together or the Postal Service would sort of mess up and wasn't ready.

16:44And so it could lead to truly hundreds of thousands of people not voting. Now go to the dissents. How do you, as a Supreme Court justice, weighing and balancing, say to yourself, well, well, the government wants to do this, but while I take seriously that hundreds of thousands of people may not be able to vote a fundamental right, we're going to look beyond that because Donald Trump wants to do it. I mean, to me, that's the thing that is so sort of soul-crushing that these justices are on the Supreme Court. Now, look, the good news is they were not the majority, even close to the majority. Not even close to it.

17:27Well, let me push you. Exactly. Now, I'm super moderating, but I want to push you to the final question with a minute left, which is what does this majority look like if there are games after the midterm? As I mentioned, if the Republicans win, we would expect the Republicans not to question it. In the event that they lose, does this mean that you view this majority in the Supreme Court as ready to swiftly deal with frivolous efforts after the election? I do. I do. And one thing that I think is a good sign, and I think it is something that people should focus on, is that Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch, two justices who were nominated by Donald Trump, were clearly in the majority here, rejecting his position.

18:15Same thing happened in the tariff case, which you alluded to earlier, Ari. I'm not saying the Supreme Court doesn't have huge issues that I disagree with, but you do have justices appointed by Donald Trump who have shown that they are perfectly happy when it comes to something this fundamental to say that is wrong. And it's wrong not just on timing, but it's wrong forever. And to me, it was a very short opinion, but resounding in rejecting what Donald Trump wanted to do with justices who were appointed by Donald Trump. And for a president who's so transactional, that's why he, again, has reacted so badly, thinking, well, if I appointed you to you, you have to rule my way, which is just shocking that the president would have that view of the justice system.

19:10Right. He's upset. He showed his cards. He's also publicly upset because he's losing. And if I may be so bold, Andrew, this is one of those nights we all follow this closely where we're telling our viewers in the country the democracy line held. and as it should be, it's now up to the people. If they vote Republican, if they split their ballot, if they vote Democrat, that's going to be up to the people. But the Supreme Court has crushed one of Donald Trump's harebrained schemes to try to abuse the ballot system to prevent that very act. So back to the public as it should be, Andrew. Thanks for being here.

19:46You're welcome. Appreciate it. Coming up, from Bernie to Bannon, the anti-AI coalition widens. and late night having its way with Trump. We're relying on Trump to beat AI. I don't even think Trump can beat Wordle. You know what I'm saying?

20:07And also in the late night dimension, the spotlight back on Colbert, Kimmel, fighting Trump's censorship and new recognition for Colbert. I'll tell you that story tonight. But next, the Iran war also dragging down the Republicans in these midterms.

20:24Exterior Remodels Inner Monologues, brought to you by Power. The house looks good. Like, really good. That siding? Stunning. The roof? Elevated. Windows? I mean, wow. The process? Smooth. The neighbors? Jealous. Choose Power Home Remodeling and remodel how you think about remodeling. Schedule your free quote on windows, siding, roofing, and doors at powerhomeremodeling.com. Power. Our work shows. The afternoon light is becoming as golden as aspen leaves. The air is growing more crisp. And the silence just seems to say more. Absorb it. And let the rest go. Like that first misty breath on a cool morning.

21:13Autumn is arriving. The days are growing shorter. Make the most of them. Park City, Utah. For the mountain kind. Plan your trip at visitparkcity.com. This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Everything in one place to move your money forward. Banking, investing, borrowing, and more. Make your first move with SoFi Checking and Savings. Competitive APY, no account fees, and a direct deposit bonus. Terms apply. Get started today at SoFi.com slash smart money. SoFi, get your money right. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC.

21:59Trump and Republicans flailing as we're now under 50 days till these midterms. The top story is the Supreme Court protecting the vote, as we've been recording. Now there's what we're seeing in the indicators of how people might vote. In the polling, which can move a lot, we do see the majority now wants Democrats as a generic matter. But whether the generic Democratic candidate does as well as, say, the actual Democrats is what we're still going to watch for. Trump officials are dealing with a level of economic pushback that they cannot ignore, although their efforts to explain it have struggled.

22:32Here was the Treasury Secretary. I saw a lot of happy talk about the economy, which, by the way, is political malpractice. You have a political problem, which is why my friends on the other side of the aisle are not talking much about the economy today. Congressman, there's a survey problem because Democrats are now poisoning the survey. Mr. Secretary, you're better than that. Reclaiming my time. I'm data-driven. Reclaiming my time. It disappoints me to see somebody of your stature use the word conspiracy in the Congress of the United States. That is the classy version of saying you have no business talking here and you should shut your mouth.

23:10Reclaiming my time, you might recall it, from other moments in Congress. The core of this, though, beyond how they talk about it, is how we are all living it. And people are upset. Trump's underwater. 60 % disapproval on the economy. 58 % on the tariffs. And then you get to the cost of living, the affordability crisis, and it's 71 % translation. That's a heck of a lot of people who have voted for Trump in prior elections saying, this is no good. Politico reports the mood inside the White House is a frustration. They can't get it resolved. And the high energy prices are viewed now as a tax on the economy.

23:44Remember, Trump and the Republican Party are very much against taxes. Those are fighting words, but Americans are feeling it. The affordability tax, the inflation tax, and a war tax that they're paying directly out of pocket. Billions adding up, no end in sight. And this from a candidate who literally ran against wars in the Mideast. The Pentagon says expenses alone are rising. You have$184 million in damages to diplomatic facilities in four countries. But that's just the piece of some of the counter attacks. Put it all together and it's over 33 billion dollars. You know, Trump and many Republican allies talk a lot about the deficit and fiscal responsibility.

24:26But of course, Trump is presiding over one of the largest we've ever seen that, of course, predates him. But he's made it worse. Wars are expensive. The tax cuts are expensive. You got to pay for it somehow. And while not everyone's following every hop, step, skip in the bond market, it reflects broadly concern about this economy under Trump. Now, that's all just the numbers. It matters. It's the affordability crisis. But there's the other part of this that people care about, totally apart from politics. This war has already cost the lives of 18 service members. Here's how Trump sounds about it all.

25:05And food prices and almost every other item are rapidly going down. And by the way, oil would be going down as soon as we win the war with the rent, which is taking place right now. We'll win it. We're winning it. We control the hormones straight. I think we should call the hormones straight. We should call it the Trump straight. I should get something out of it. Yes, he should get something out of this, something other than the billion plus dollars He's already given himself and his family and self-enrichment on the job. And so, as is often the case around here, when we kind of go through the news and history together, you can look at this as an economy problem, as an affordability election.

25:49And we know how that punished the incumbents last time around. It's part of how Trump got into office. We can look at this as a time of AI and a tech crisis. I've got that story coming up, and we've been covering that a lot. But you can also look at this as the long shadow of failed American foreign policy out in the Middle East, which people pay for at home. And that brings us to one of our special guests tonight, an expert on that very topic. David Korn, Washington Bureau Chief for Mother Jones, has written several books and has studied America's follies in the Middle East. His new book also has a political and international cast, How Russia Won Trump, Putin and the Fight for America.

26:28It's out today, which is why we welcome him. And I'll keep that on screen. You can go look that up. We'll put it back up, David. Long time MS Now guest for those viewers interested. You can go wherever books are sold. You can go online and check out Mr. Korn's new book. And that's not all. Alencia Johnson, a Democratic strategist, author of Flip the Tables, returns. Welcome to both of you. Alencia, I gave David a little more love because it's it's his book day. You get it. Special day for him. Totally. Happy pub day. There we go. Happy pub day. David, I say it in all seriousness because many people remember your insightful and perceptive coverage of the march toward Iraq.

27:07People who've been who've been following the news that long. And here we are again in Iran and it seems to have domestic consequences. Your view tonight. I mean, tremendous domestic consequences. And you just asked, is this a tax crisis? Is this a political crisis, an economic crisis? It really is a Trump crisis. He generated this war. No one else really wanted it. He even had negotiations ongoing to try to reach a non-war resolution that he just sort of cut off at the knees. He had no plan on what to do about the Strait of Hormuz, what to do after the bombing. His whole idea that he could just get away with this on the cheap and be hailed as a great conquering hero.